So the debate continues so I will ask again: SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS AION HAS 3.5 MILLION PLAYERS. I want to see the document, the official press release, the report or whatever. I have seen no proof of 3.5 million at all. I see the number quoted everywhere but no official statement. So until someone can link it from an official NCSoft source, then it is simply a typo or a fabrication. Sorry but Zorn is winning the argument so far because he actually linked OFFICIAL statements.
The official statement was likely made in a magazine or white document. -Most- people don't really give two craps about this kind of stuff, so reposting the original source online is a waste of time.
-You- are the one that has such a hard-on for seeing this proof. Me? I'm just here to poke holes in an arguement based almost entirely on speculation. He doesn't have any official documents that state the absolute server capacity of NCsoft's servers. All I know is what type of server software they're running, I found the white document on that yesterday through google, so can you.
Nobody knows what their server hardware is because it's in documents that nobody is going to repost online.
If you think there's some conspiracy going on here then you're going to have to go make some phone calls to people. I personally don't care and I don't see why anybody does. It's not like lying about subscription numbers does anything for them.
Worried about creating false hype?
Uhhhh, newsflash, gaming companies do that already through vague wording, inaccurate (but legal) advertising and other morally wrong practices. Might as well go after them as well while you're at it, ffs.
Edit:
And before you say, "Posting false subscriber numbers is illegal" I'm gonna stop you there. Because it may not be for them. If they post false numbers in the NA, I know it is, but I don't know the law in China or Korea. Do you? NCsoft is the leading online company in Korea which is a leading country as far as the IT and MMO industries go. They aren't going to risk potentially billions of dollars in fines and lost investors on something ridiculous like this, mostly because it wouldn't be worth the risk.
at the end of the day if aion gets good reviews and/or mostly possative comments in the forums i ll buy it . if the games good and i enjoy it i ll subscribe for a month or two and level past the early stages ( knowing having played warcraft that the early levels are always a bit of a boring grind fest in most mmos ) .if i find it to be an enjoyable gameworld i may end up staying longer as i did in warcraft .
the thing is i would proberbly still be in warcraft now but i found so many things in game changed for the worst . it may be a lot better now for the very young players ( for example my 12 year old nephew loves it ) but the community reflects this increasingly younger player base . i might still play if they had 18 + servers but they dont and i m way past wanting a virtual schoolyeard .
i personally hope aion ends up with a decent number of players and an older userbase . i dont think and ever have thought it will be the wowkiller . many of warcrafts players are far too entrenched in thier gameworld .but having said that theres plenty of people like me who are disalusioned with warcraft who have either given up or are still playing waiting for a strong alternative to come along .
i actually think from what i ve heard aion could have the potential to be the first real rival to wow . if its a decent mmo it ll be word of mouth that ll see people playing as happened with warcraft
paradoxically the best advertising for aion may come from within the wow community as players start telling other players of thier possative experiances of the game and end up leaving to play it . of course theres bound to be a few trolls who ll say how bad it is ( proberbly never having played it or having spent a day in the beta ) .
the most possative outcome would be to have two very successful mmos .
these virtual worlds are in there infamcy . perhaps we could call this the golden age of mmos . as our tech improves so will they . warcraft might be the king for now but with each year that crown becomes a little more tarnished and maybe it ll be usurped a lot sooner than any of us thinks .
So the debate continues so I will ask again: SHOW ME WHERE IT SAYS AION HAS 3.5 MILLION PLAYERS. I want to see the document, the official press release, the report or whatever. I have seen no proof of 3.5 million at all. I see the number quoted everywhere but no official statement. So until someone can link it from an official NCSoft source, then it is simply a typo or a fabrication. Sorry but Zorn is winning the argument so far because he actually linked OFFICIAL statements.
The official statement was likely made in a magazine or white document. -Most- people don't really give two craps about this kind of stuff, so reposting the original source online is a waste of time.
So I ask for proof and its better to question my asking for proof than actually show it?
Well that sums it up right there - At least, with most games, when someone asks for proof, the proof is given. Yet another reason not to play this travesty of a game. People cannot even bother to show you the proof on which they base their arguments.
Basically what you said is "Listen to the fanbois because proof doesn't matter".
Why do I ask for proof? Because I have read that the "3.5 million" players was a typo and should have read 1.5 million.
The only place you've heard this is here. From Zorndorf. Curse.com, Massively.com, TenTonHammer.com, and many, many more have printed 3.5 million and haven't said the first thing about retraction. I've even contacted them to ask them about their numbers. Where you've "read" that it was a typo is here.
1.5 million, by the way, is the common number associated with Aion sub numbers. So I ask for proof of the 3.5 million because, otherwise, its simply a figment of someone's imagination until proven otherwise.
From the same person who's been going on and on and on and on about it being a typo, he provided numbers to go along with his arguments. If you take what NCSoft has printed and plug those numbers into his equations, it equals 3.4 million. I don't care either way. I could give a flying flip if they have 3.5 or 1.5. The only people really up-in-arms about this are defensive players from other games.
Sorry, you can live in fantasy land where proof and actual numbers don't matter. I prefer not too; I am a professor and I deal with statistics daily. At least when people discuss WOW numbers, there is an official number to go by and even an exact definition to go by too.
Funny, you say that you deal with empirical evidence, yet you're basing your judgement of 1.5 versus 3.5 on a forum post by another user. Why? Because it aligns with your own ideals? You're not unbiased, so don't pretend you are. You're going with what suits you best. If you were unbiased, you'd say, "I don't care either way. 1.5 or 3.5 - they're both formidible numbers." Zorndorf's argument is that he doesnt like bad hype (which sounds like a wolf in sheep's clothing, since he's badmouthing Aion in other forums.) So, since you're going off of his posts and his information, what's your excuse?
And I think its vital information since the most common answer from an Aion fanboi as to why Aion will "defeat" WOW is because it has 3.5 million players.
I think that is a misunderstanding. People are saying Aion will defeat WoW (which I don't understand. I'd much rather have WoW keep going and keep its legions of spoon-fed gamers) because they believe it's a better game. It's faulty logic to say "Well it'll beat it because it has a lot of players." I think everyone understands that it will be different in the West, but we've yet to see. People that are saying these types of things are people that are sick of WoW.
Really don't give a damn about the 1.5m vs 3.5m or the aion kill wow crud (it won't).
All I know is that in terms of pvp/gameplay/graphics it kicks wow in the head. PvE is way way way subpar to wow. But im a pvper at heart and aion satisfies me in a way that no game has since my days on UO and Meridian59.
Lets face it WoW sucks in PvP. Has the best PvE around but script humping ain't my thing. And since the majority of pple are script humping epic junkies I highly doubt Aion is gonna provide much competition for WoW (certainly not in the west, but maybe in Asia).
AION cons (IMO): everyone has angel wings (this is just weird and detracts from the time-honored fantasy concept that you start as a humble adventurer and build yourself into a heroic figure over time), anime-ish style graphics (bleccchhh).
WOW pros: very polished, easy on mid-range systems
I think it's hilarious how the WoW players react to any spotlight shining down on another new game. They may never admit they fear a possible game to come along and so call "de-throne the king of mmo's" but they do. Because no one wants to see their favorite game fall from #1 or lose players to other games.
Come on, take a away the flying combat and Aion is WOW. Why would anyone leave a fully developed char just to do the same grinding on a similar mmo. Blizzard could just raise the level cap in WoW to 90 and six million would buy the game the next day.
Blizzard just have to put in a few quests, a new tier armor set, a new BG, give their instace Bosses a new name, add a few new factions you can grind rep from and they are set. This is what they have done the last three years and it workes.
Blizzard just have to put in a few quests, a new tier armor set, a new BG, give their instace Bosses a new name, add a few new factions you can grind rep from and they are set. This is what they have done the last three years and it workes.
Flying, dailies, vehicle combat, phasing, achievments, new BGs, Wintergrasp, in game cinematic...
I think it's hilarious how the WoW players react to any spotlight shining down on another new game. They may never admit they fear a possible game to come along and so call "de-throne the king of mmo's" but they do. Because no one wants to see their favorite game fall from #1 or lose players to other games.
Come on, take a away the flying combat and Aion is WOW. Why would anyone leave a fully developed char just to do the same grinding on a similar mmo. Blizzard could just raise the level cap in WoW to 90 and six million would buy the game the next day.
Blizzard just have to put in a few quests, a new tier armor set, a new BG, give their instace Bosses a new name, add a few new factions you can grind rep from and they are set. This is what they have done the last three years and it workes.
And ..Come on take away flying mounts from WoW and its EQ2... bla bla bla
Not going to quote the whole thing but in reply: I have done a complete internet search and checked all the major MMO news sites and I have yet to find where is says 3.5 million players - officially. As a matter of fact, all I have found is where it says 1.5 million players. And no Zorn was not the first to claim it. I read it in the Aion forums long before Zorn made any mention of it. Please, by all means, someone find the article where it says 3.5 million players and I will be glad to read it. Apparently, I cannot find it and I have looked. Sure, I see many articles about the number but I see nothing from a developer or anyone that states it officially. To be honest, I have no idea where the number came from.
I'm no mathemetician or self appointed professor but i believe Zorndorf's formula was...
"10 K subs for 1 server of which 1/3 (full capacity) to 1/4 are concurrently on line."
If 7,000 is 1/3 that makes 21,000 number of subs for the server, at 162 servers, thats 3,402,000 subs. Sounds about right to me. It stands to reason that person who posted said number may have made a similar calculation (assuming Zorndorf's formula is accurate).
It's almost 2010, and I am just not wiling to tolerate clunky graphics while being told that "gameplay is more important than graphics". That excuse won't wash with me any more. I expect my games to have both good graphics and good gameplay. -Quote Isoke(VN boards)
Not going to quote the whole thing but in reply: I have done a complete internet search and checked all the major MMO news sites and I have yet to find where is says 3.5 million players - officially. As a matter of fact, all I have found is where it says 1.5 million players. And no Zorn was not the first to claim it. I read it in the Aion forums long before Zorn made any mention of it. Please, by all means, someone find the article where it says 3.5 million players and I will be glad to read it. Apparently, I cannot find it and I have looked. Sure, I see many articles about the number but I see nothing from a developer or anyone that states it officially. To be honest, I have no idea where the number came from.
I'm no mathemetician or self appointed professor but i believe Zorndorf's formula was...
"10 K subs for 1 server of which 1/3 (full capacity) to 1/4 are concurrently on line."
If 7,000 is 1/3 that makes 21,000 number of subs for the server, at 162 servers, thats 3,402,000 subs. Sounds about right to me. It stands to reason that person who posted said number may have made a similar calculation (assuming Zorndorf's formula is accurate).
First problem:
1. In the links I made in my posts above (which were rather offical links btw) proved thet Aion had :
41 Korean servers and 113 Chinese servers at the moment Aion had around 1.5 M players. That was the situation as of May 2009
2. There is only ONE AU source that claimed it suddenly sprang to 3.5 M at ... the beginning of June. That was a 2 million (!) growth in 5 weeks time. ALL the other internet sources are coming from that sole AU sources that didn't give ANY back up.
At that time (Ju) the game had .... 162 servers.
You can't come up with 9 extra servers and .... 2.000.000 new players.
----
Second problem:
The only argument you Aion fans (defenders) have is that Aion could handle an absolute maximum of 7000 players per server on line.
This is of course purely on a stress test situation.
Like I already said in numurous posts : I GIVE operationel figures. Not one opeator would want servers constantly at max capacity. The average in today's Fantasy MMO's in REALM servers is 3000 concurrently "on average". With probably a max out on 3.5 to 4K concurrently per server.... AT LEAST IF YOU WANT your characaters to MOVE.
That's the average 10K I was talking of which 1/3 are on line. I showed the AVERAGE OPERATIONEL Blizzard server hold 3 K (that would be 3.5 to 4K on locked). NO operator in his right mind would have his servers at absolute max cap stress. Never.
------> So this calculation holds even true for Aoin .... in the OFFICIAL links I used: 41 servers .... 400K Korea , 113 Chinese servers ... for 1 M Chinese .
And to have the EQUIVALENT of 3.5 M, you would have at least 350 OPERATIONEL servers needed.
Of course EVERYONE knows .... what (in Korean math) is "exactly "3.5M subscribers". One time visitors in an interent café? Probably.
---> It also explains probabaly why L2 didn't achieve those same "multimilion subs" in the west ...they supposedly had in the East
7k was sustained players, so your numbers are crap. I know you're well aware of it and just enjoy the trolling, but everyone out there should know the truth.
With 7k players, the numbers back up the claim of 3.5m players. And 7k players just makes sense due to better programming.
Hate Aion all you want, just try to be smarter about it.
I pre-ordered Aion and am entitled to all Beta events. I also recently came back to WoW to fill the time.
Aion seems fun, it plays smooth, Its style is a bit different. I only got to level 7 but so far it is enjoyable. I don't think you see the core of the game till you get to 25. It plays similiar to WoW and is just better in many aspects where WoW lacks, like PvP and RvR. I like it. It is polished just like WoW. I can't say where it lacks yet, it is still early. But it is keeping my interest.
I started playing WoW again this month and I think it was a mistake to come back & spend the money. The xpac kinda killed the enjoyment for me, I dont know why. I'll stick it out since I paid for the xpac but I gotta say that it definitely feels like WoW is way past its prime.
So all of your argument is based on your projected numbers of how many people can fit on 1 server?!
You sir are an idiot. You realize that EVE has more than 200k on a single server right? You ASSUME (and we all know what that means) a great deal and take issue of 1 tiny single fact (not even published by NCsoft I might add) and make a full case based on a single shed of evidence that no one, not even you, can prove or disprove.
I like Aion, it's an ok game as far as I have played it. I liked WoW just got tired of the same old crap from Blizz about updates, homoginizing classes and their refusal to add meaningful RvR instead of more Arena crap.
As to the numbers in the East affecting WoW, More of WoW's vaunted 11 million comes from the East, more Eastern players than Western ones in fact. Hell they wouldn't add the Pandafain to the game because they would lose China.
As for that Eastern market, Aion is going where even WoW wouldn't, Japan. We'll see how that pans out. If it's a success in Japan WoW fanboys will all suddenly die of heart attacks.
And for the record I'm not anyones fanboy Aion WoW or anyone else. I AM a MMORPG Fan, I don't want WoW or any MMO to fail, I want the ones I don't even like to have some success because in the end the more that ANY MMO fails the more it hurts the whole market.
Everyone, everywhere is basing the argument that "Aion will defeat WOW" on the fact it has 3.5 million subscribers in China and Korea. That is all fine and great; however, that entire argument is based, the best I can figure out, on someone's conjecture of "OMG, the servers hold this many people and there are this many servers so OMG let's just multiply those 2 numbers to figure out how many players Aion has". Sorry the argument is complete and total BS now because there is simply no proof that those numbers "3.5 million" were ever released by NCSoft. And guess what - if the game was doing that well then why hasn't NCSoft released any numbers recently?
You can do your own math to substantiate the 3.5 million number. NC Soft has told us the peak number of users on a server. They release that. They have told us the number of servers they have. They released that. Now they're just expecting you to do a little math... how rude!
But what does it matter? You'll hate the game anyway.
Everyone, everywhere is basing the argument that "Aion will defeat WOW" on the fact it has 3.5 million subscribers in China and Korea. That is all fine and great; however, that entire argument is based, the best I can figure out, on someone's conjecture of "OMG, the servers hold this many people and there are this many servers so OMG let's just multiply those 2 numbers to figure out how many players Aion has". Sorry the argument is complete and total BS now because there is simply no proof that those numbers "3.5 million" were ever released by NCSoft. And guess what - if the game was doing that well then why hasn't NCSoft released any numbers recently?
You can do your own math to substantiate the 3.5 million number. NC Soft has told us the peak number of users on a server. They release that. They have told us the number of servers they have. They released that. Now they're just expecting you to do a little math... how rude!
But what does it matter? You'll hate the game anyway.
Frankly, both of these games, World of Warcraft, will stay successful, and Aion, Will be successful. The die hard WoW players won't quit, and Aion is aimed at the crowd that is just getting into the mmo gaming spectrum, yes, some will quit WoW to play Aion, but if WoW does start Failing, thats what Blizzard has Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 on deck for..
Everyone, everywhere is basing the argument that "Aion will defeat WOW" on the fact it has 3.5 million subscribers in China and Korea. That is all fine and great; however, that entire argument is based, the best I can figure out, on someone's conjecture of "OMG, the servers hold this many people and there are this many servers so OMG let's just multiply those 2 numbers to figure out how many players Aion has". Sorry the argument is complete and total BS now because there is simply no proof that those numbers "3.5 million" were ever released by NCSoft. And guess what - if the game was doing that well then why hasn't NCSoft released any numbers recently?
I will agree that people making a big deal out of the "3.5 million" is rather stupid, NCsoft might also not really care about announcing it's sub base yet. When all the launches are complete I really could care less if they have 2 million in the world or 300 million, it would be nice to see big numbers though. I say that not for Aion's sake but for the market as a whole.
I am sick and very tired of hearing the doom and gloom crap from all the news lately about how the MMO market is shrinking. Why is the market shrinking? I think in large part to the mindset of the "WoW killer" mentality. People seem to WANT Blizzard to get their clock cleaned not realizing that it would probably kill the whole market and we can all go back to consoles and single player games while spitting on the corpse of MMOs.
The more MMOs fail the less people in the future will invest in developing future games. Less investment = smaller market=no new mmos. Think about the last company that made buggy whips, bet the last company that made em was a great buggy whip maker. What does that mean? Keep getting an increasing share of a shrinking market and you go broke.
Why am I shooting this at you, well I have seen you on more than 1 forum spouting this crap and I can't stand people trolling. Be freakin happy that the market is getting good press and let it pass. NCsoft will announce it's numbers when they want to, till then I'm enjoying the glow of some good news in the market.
I'm going to start off by just letting everyone know that I have not played Aion yet (although I look forward to trying it). Now, without getting into the hardcore specifics of mmos (i.e. pvp, quests, etc...), there is one crucial aspect of an mmo that seems to lead to its success. Now, I think one of the reasons that WoW is so successfull is that it's so goddamn polished. Game content aside, WoW has an extremely smooth interface and clicking on whatever is a breeze. I am not saying that WoW is a perfect game, just that Blizzard has the interface down to an art. The fact is, a game's smoothness and interface are a big part in whether or not I will play the game. Sure, I take the whole package into account, but if the game isn't smooth, I won't want to come back. This is one reason why when I went to start up my old DAoC account, I couldn't really get back into it becuase of its clunkyness. To me (via videos and descriptions from other players), Aion seems to be an extremely smooth experience: from the interface to the combat animations. And because of this, I believe that it will do well, just as WoW has done.
What I appreciate about Aion is that with new MMOs that can rival WoW, it pushes WoW developers to step up their game; thus creating competition that ultimately benefits gamers as companies compete for player base.
WoW is an established name, and despite how long it's been out on the market, it's still doing well. Most games die after a while, because either there's no more game content to entice players or the stigma of an "old" game that cannot compete with newer and better looking games that run more smoothly.
It is indeed unrealistic to expect any one game to "kill" WoW, because it is a well established game/name. It's also quite childish to wish a game/company to fail simply because you don't like it. Many are indeed unaware of all the consequences, such as market loss, job loss, and other untold havoc.
The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
Comments
The official statement was likely made in a magazine or white document. -Most- people don't really give two craps about this kind of stuff, so reposting the original source online is a waste of time.
-You- are the one that has such a hard-on for seeing this proof. Me? I'm just here to poke holes in an arguement based almost entirely on speculation. He doesn't have any official documents that state the absolute server capacity of NCsoft's servers. All I know is what type of server software they're running, I found the white document on that yesterday through google, so can you.
Nobody knows what their server hardware is because it's in documents that nobody is going to repost online.
If you think there's some conspiracy going on here then you're going to have to go make some phone calls to people. I personally don't care and I don't see why anybody does. It's not like lying about subscription numbers does anything for them.
Worried about creating false hype?
Uhhhh, newsflash, gaming companies do that already through vague wording, inaccurate (but legal) advertising and other morally wrong practices. Might as well go after them as well while you're at it, ffs.
Edit:
And before you say, "Posting false subscriber numbers is illegal" I'm gonna stop you there. Because it may not be for them. If they post false numbers in the NA, I know it is, but I don't know the law in China or Korea. Do you? NCsoft is the leading online company in Korea which is a leading country as far as the IT and MMO industries go. They aren't going to risk potentially billions of dollars in fines and lost investors on something ridiculous like this, mostly because it wouldn't be worth the risk.
at the end of the day if aion gets good reviews and/or mostly possative comments in the forums i ll buy it . if the games good and i enjoy it i ll subscribe for a month or two and level past the early stages ( knowing having played warcraft that the early levels are always a bit of a boring grind fest in most mmos ) .if i find it to be an enjoyable gameworld i may end up staying longer as i did in warcraft .
the thing is i would proberbly still be in warcraft now but i found so many things in game changed for the worst . it may be a lot better now for the very young players ( for example my 12 year old nephew loves it ) but the community reflects this increasingly younger player base . i might still play if they had 18 + servers but they dont and i m way past wanting a virtual schoolyeard .
i personally hope aion ends up with a decent number of players and an older userbase . i dont think and ever have thought it will be the wowkiller . many of warcrafts players are far too entrenched in thier gameworld .but having said that theres plenty of people like me who are disalusioned with warcraft who have either given up or are still playing waiting for a strong alternative to come along .
i actually think from what i ve heard aion could have the potential to be the first real rival to wow . if its a decent mmo it ll be word of mouth that ll see people playing as happened with warcraft
paradoxically the best advertising for aion may come from within the wow community as players start telling other players of thier possative experiances of the game and end up leaving to play it . of course theres bound to be a few trolls who ll say how bad it is ( proberbly never having played it or having spent a day in the beta ) .
the most possative outcome would be to have two very successful mmos .
these virtual worlds are in there infamcy . perhaps we could call this the golden age of mmos . as our tech improves so will they . warcraft might be the king for now but with each year that crown becomes a little more tarnished and maybe it ll be usurped a lot sooner than any of us thinks .
The official statement was likely made in a magazine or white document. -Most- people don't really give two craps about this kind of stuff, so reposting the original source online is a waste of time.
So I ask for proof and its better to question my asking for proof than actually show it?
Well that sums it up right there - At least, with most games, when someone asks for proof, the proof is given. Yet another reason not to play this travesty of a game. People cannot even bother to show you the proof on which they base their arguments.
Basically what you said is "Listen to the fanbois because proof doesn't matter".
Why do I ask for proof? Because I have read that the "3.5 million" players was a typo and should have read 1.5 million.
The only place you've heard this is here. From Zorndorf. Curse.com, Massively.com, TenTonHammer.com, and many, many more have printed 3.5 million and haven't said the first thing about retraction. I've even contacted them to ask them about their numbers. Where you've "read" that it was a typo is here.
1.5 million, by the way, is the common number associated with Aion sub numbers. So I ask for proof of the 3.5 million because, otherwise, its simply a figment of someone's imagination until proven otherwise.
From the same person who's been going on and on and on and on about it being a typo, he provided numbers to go along with his arguments. If you take what NCSoft has printed and plug those numbers into his equations, it equals 3.4 million. I don't care either way. I could give a flying flip if they have 3.5 or 1.5. The only people really up-in-arms about this are defensive players from other games.
Sorry, you can live in fantasy land where proof and actual numbers don't matter. I prefer not too; I am a professor and I deal with statistics daily. At least when people discuss WOW numbers, there is an official number to go by and even an exact definition to go by too.
Funny, you say that you deal with empirical evidence, yet you're basing your judgement of 1.5 versus 3.5 on a forum post by another user. Why? Because it aligns with your own ideals? You're not unbiased, so don't pretend you are. You're going with what suits you best. If you were unbiased, you'd say, "I don't care either way. 1.5 or 3.5 - they're both formidible numbers." Zorndorf's argument is that he doesnt like bad hype (which sounds like a wolf in sheep's clothing, since he's badmouthing Aion in other forums.) So, since you're going off of his posts and his information, what's your excuse?
And I think its vital information since the most common answer from an Aion fanboi as to why Aion will "defeat" WOW is because it has 3.5 million players.
I think that is a misunderstanding. People are saying Aion will defeat WoW (which I don't understand. I'd much rather have WoW keep going and keep its legions of spoon-fed gamers) because they believe it's a better game. It's faulty logic to say "Well it'll beat it because it has a lot of players." I think everyone understands that it will be different in the West, but we've yet to see. People that are saying these types of things are people that are sick of WoW.
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/played: EQ, EQ II, DAoC, WoW, LoTRO, AoC, CoH/CoV, WAR, Aion, Tera, Wildstar and many others that don't merit listing
/playing: Clash of Clans, Hearthstone
Really don't give a damn about the 1.5m vs 3.5m or the aion kill wow crud (it won't).
All I know is that in terms of pvp/gameplay/graphics it kicks wow in the head. PvE is way way way subpar to wow. But im a pvper at heart and aion satisfies me in a way that no game has since my days on UO and Meridian59.
Lets face it WoW sucks in PvP. Has the best PvE around but script humping ain't my thing. And since the majority of pple are script humping epic junkies I highly doubt Aion is gonna provide much competition for WoW (certainly not in the west, but maybe in Asia).
AION pros: polished, nice graphics, new
AION cons (IMO): everyone has angel wings (this is just weird and detracts from the time-honored fantasy concept that you start as a humble adventurer and build yourself into a heroic figure over time), anime-ish style graphics (bleccchhh).
WOW pros: very polished, easy on mid-range systems
WOW cons: too easy, getting old
Come on, take a away the flying combat and Aion is WOW. Why would anyone leave a fully developed char just to do the same grinding on a similar mmo. Blizzard could just raise the level cap in WoW to 90 and six million would buy the game the next day.
Blizzard just have to put in a few quests, a new tier armor set, a new BG, give their instace Bosses a new name, add a few new factions you can grind rep from and they are set. This is what they have done the last three years and it workes.
Flying, dailies, vehicle combat, phasing, achievments, new BGs, Wintergrasp, in game cinematic...
Come on, take a away the flying combat and Aion is WOW. Why would anyone leave a fully developed char just to do the same grinding on a similar mmo. Blizzard could just raise the level cap in WoW to 90 and six million would buy the game the next day.
Blizzard just have to put in a few quests, a new tier armor set, a new BG, give their instace Bosses a new name, add a few new factions you can grind rep from and they are set. This is what they have done the last three years and it workes.
And ..Come on take away flying mounts from WoW and its EQ2... bla bla bla
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/69186
This states not only the said 3.5 mil Subscribers, but also states the 7,000 users per server on LIVE and FULL RETAIL servers.
Both of the following links mention the 3.5 number as well.
http://www.gameplayer.com.au/gp_documents/090520Aion.aspx
http://pc.ign.com/articles/985/985368p1.html
I'm no mathemetician or self appointed professor but i believe Zorndorf's formula was...
"10 K subs for 1 server of which 1/3 (full capacity) to 1/4 are concurrently on line."
If 7,000 is 1/3 that makes 21,000 number of subs for the server, at 162 servers, thats 3,402,000 subs. Sounds about right to me. It stands to reason that person who posted said number may have made a similar calculation (assuming Zorndorf's formula is accurate).
It's almost 2010, and I am just not wiling to tolerate clunky graphics while being told that "gameplay is more important than graphics". That excuse won't wash with me any more. I expect my games to have both good graphics and good gameplay.
-Quote Isoke(VN boards)
http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/69186
This states not only the said 3.5 mil Subscribers, but also states the 7,000 users per server on LIVE and FULL RETAIL servers.
Both of the following links mention the 3.5 number as well.
http://www.gameplayer.com.au/gp_documents/090520Aion.aspx
http://pc.ign.com/articles/985/985368p1.html
I'm no mathemetician or self appointed professor but i believe Zorndorf's formula was...
"10 K subs for 1 server of which 1/3 (full capacity) to 1/4 are concurrently on line."
If 7,000 is 1/3 that makes 21,000 number of subs for the server, at 162 servers, thats 3,402,000 subs. Sounds about right to me. It stands to reason that person who posted said number may have made a similar calculation (assuming Zorndorf's formula is accurate).
First problem:
1. In the links I made in my posts above (which were rather offical links btw) proved thet Aion had :
41 Korean servers and 113 Chinese servers at the moment Aion had around 1.5 M players. That was the situation as of May 2009
2. There is only ONE AU source that claimed it suddenly sprang to 3.5 M at ... the beginning of June. That was a 2 million (!) growth in 5 weeks time. ALL the other internet sources are coming from that sole AU sources that didn't give ANY back up.
At that time (Ju) the game had .... 162 servers.
You can't come up with 9 extra servers and .... 2.000.000 new players.
----
Second problem:
The only argument you Aion fans (defenders) have is that Aion could handle an absolute maximum of 7000 players per server on line.
This is of course purely on a stress test situation.
Like I already said in numurous posts : I GIVE operationel figures. Not one opeator would want servers constantly at max capacity. The average in today's Fantasy MMO's in REALM servers is 3000 concurrently "on average". With probably a max out on 3.5 to 4K concurrently per server.... AT LEAST IF YOU WANT your characaters to MOVE.
That's the average 10K I was talking of which 1/3 are on line. I showed the AVERAGE OPERATIONEL Blizzard server hold 3 K (that would be 3.5 to 4K on locked). NO operator in his right mind would have his servers at absolute max cap stress. Never.
------> So this calculation holds even true for Aoin .... in the OFFICIAL links I used: 41 servers .... 400K Korea , 113 Chinese servers ... for 1 M Chinese .
And to have the EQUIVALENT of 3.5 M, you would have at least 350 OPERATIONEL servers needed.
Of course EVERYONE knows .... what (in Korean math) is "exactly "3.5M subscribers". One time visitors in an interent café? Probably.
---> It also explains probabaly why L2 didn't achieve those same "multimilion subs" in the west ...they supposedly had in the East
7k was sustained players, so your numbers are crap. I know you're well aware of it and just enjoy the trolling, but everyone out there should know the truth.
With 7k players, the numbers back up the claim of 3.5m players. And 7k players just makes sense due to better programming.
Hate Aion all you want, just try to be smarter about it.
I pre-ordered Aion and am entitled to all Beta events. I also recently came back to WoW to fill the time.
Aion seems fun, it plays smooth, Its style is a bit different. I only got to level 7 but so far it is enjoyable. I don't think you see the core of the game till you get to 25. It plays similiar to WoW and is just better in many aspects where WoW lacks, like PvP and RvR. I like it. It is polished just like WoW. I can't say where it lacks yet, it is still early. But it is keeping my interest.
I started playing WoW again this month and I think it was a mistake to come back & spend the money. The xpac kinda killed the enjoyment for me, I dont know why. I'll stick it out since I paid for the xpac but I gotta say that it definitely feels like WoW is way past its prime.
So all of your argument is based on your projected numbers of how many people can fit on 1 server?!
You sir are an idiot. You realize that EVE has more than 200k on a single server right? You ASSUME (and we all know what that means) a great deal and take issue of 1 tiny single fact (not even published by NCsoft I might add) and make a full case based on a single shed of evidence that no one, not even you, can prove or disprove.
I like Aion, it's an ok game as far as I have played it. I liked WoW just got tired of the same old crap from Blizz about updates, homoginizing classes and their refusal to add meaningful RvR instead of more Arena crap.
As to the numbers in the East affecting WoW, More of WoW's vaunted 11 million comes from the East, more Eastern players than Western ones in fact. Hell they wouldn't add the Pandafain to the game because they would lose China.
As for that Eastern market, Aion is going where even WoW wouldn't, Japan. We'll see how that pans out. If it's a success in Japan WoW fanboys will all suddenly die of heart attacks.
And for the record I'm not anyones fanboy Aion WoW or anyone else. I AM a MMORPG Fan, I don't want WoW or any MMO to fail, I want the ones I don't even like to have some success because in the end the more that ANY MMO fails the more it hurts the whole market.
wrong.
I'm tired of the never ending loot treadmill, elite vs. scrub distinction. You guys can have both of these games. I will be looking elsewhere.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
You can do your own math to substantiate the 3.5 million number. NC Soft has told us the peak number of users on a server. They release that. They have told us the number of servers they have. They released that. Now they're just expecting you to do a little math... how rude!
But what does it matter? You'll hate the game anyway.
You can do your own math to substantiate the 3.5 million number. NC Soft has told us the peak number of users on a server. They release that. They have told us the number of servers they have. They released that. Now they're just expecting you to do a little math... how rude!
But what does it matter? You'll hate the game anyway.
Frankly, both of these games, World of Warcraft, will stay successful, and Aion, Will be successful. The die hard WoW players won't quit, and Aion is aimed at the crowd that is just getting into the mmo gaming spectrum, yes, some will quit WoW to play Aion, but if WoW does start Failing, thats what Blizzard has Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 on deck for..
I will agree that people making a big deal out of the "3.5 million" is rather stupid, NCsoft might also not really care about announcing it's sub base yet. When all the launches are complete I really could care less if they have 2 million in the world or 300 million, it would be nice to see big numbers though. I say that not for Aion's sake but for the market as a whole.
I am sick and very tired of hearing the doom and gloom crap from all the news lately about how the MMO market is shrinking. Why is the market shrinking? I think in large part to the mindset of the "WoW killer" mentality. People seem to WANT Blizzard to get their clock cleaned not realizing that it would probably kill the whole market and we can all go back to consoles and single player games while spitting on the corpse of MMOs.
The more MMOs fail the less people in the future will invest in developing future games. Less investment = smaller market=no new mmos. Think about the last company that made buggy whips, bet the last company that made em was a great buggy whip maker. What does that mean? Keep getting an increasing share of a shrinking market and you go broke.
Why am I shooting this at you, well I have seen you on more than 1 forum spouting this crap and I can't stand people trolling. Be freakin happy that the market is getting good press and let it pass. NCsoft will announce it's numbers when they want to, till then I'm enjoying the glow of some good news in the market.
I'm going to start off by just letting everyone know that I have not played Aion yet (although I look forward to trying it). Now, without getting into the hardcore specifics of mmos (i.e. pvp, quests, etc...), there is one crucial aspect of an mmo that seems to lead to its success. Now, I think one of the reasons that WoW is so successfull is that it's so goddamn polished. Game content aside, WoW has an extremely smooth interface and clicking on whatever is a breeze. I am not saying that WoW is a perfect game, just that Blizzard has the interface down to an art. The fact is, a game's smoothness and interface are a big part in whether or not I will play the game. Sure, I take the whole package into account, but if the game isn't smooth, I won't want to come back. This is one reason why when I went to start up my old DAoC account, I couldn't really get back into it becuase of its clunkyness. To me (via videos and descriptions from other players), Aion seems to be an extremely smooth experience: from the interface to the combat animations. And because of this, I believe that it will do well, just as WoW has done.
What I appreciate about Aion is that with new MMOs that can rival WoW, it pushes WoW developers to step up their game; thus creating competition that ultimately benefits gamers as companies compete for player base.
WoW is an established name, and despite how long it's been out on the market, it's still doing well. Most games die after a while, because either there's no more game content to entice players or the stigma of an "old" game that cannot compete with newer and better looking games that run more smoothly.
It is indeed unrealistic to expect any one game to "kill" WoW, because it is a well established game/name. It's also quite childish to wish a game/company to fail simply because you don't like it. Many are indeed unaware of all the consequences, such as market loss, job loss, and other untold havoc.
The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.