WOW must never be killed. Seriously, think of the type of people you know who still play WOW, would you really want them playing in your games? Didn't think so.
lol exactly. That's why I'm ok with each game taking away a few players, skimming the cream off of the top. WoW can keep the bottom dwellers
The true PvP reward system in Wow is based on a rated ladder system in which very rare titles are distributed.
Having a deadly gladiaotor title means you topped the competition out of a possible 200.000 plyers (tx to the battlegroup system of linked server competition). Out of the game there is also the official tournament system which awards player teams with up to 200.000 dollar reward system. How is that for a reward system. ) --- items and gear thet level with you exist since WotLK . Better keep up with the MANY game changes lately. --- Story line CHANGE the complete world around you in its end game. Multiple time actually when you conquer bases on the Lich King. Players standing next to each other can see each other but still see different bases according to their adventure experience. So these "fundamental" changes are already IN the game. As on the new >PTR, there is the gameplay with experience turned off, the experience gains trough pure PvP, the set changer directly to portable banks, ... (a few million other changes). Better be on top when posting about WOW these days. The changes come faster than I can type. ))) And what now?
The "rare titles" are meaningless. Its a title you can do nothing with, as are the achievements. There is no sense of loss for your character if you are defeated in open world pvp, as in UO. You may achieve Deadly Gladiator and flaunt it all you want, but if someone defeats you after you've gained your title, what does it mean? Where's the trophy?
How does the storyline change the game world? In what way? Faction wins? That's temporary. Read what I wrote. My example sites instances that evolve. Since its an instance, its not an overall change to the game world, so newbs won't have their gameplay affected. However, an instance will no longer be obsolete. Molten Core would once again have meaning, as the items you gain from its completion would be valuable post level 60. See my point?
What items and gear level with you? Are you talking about gemming your gear? I'm talking about epics made obsolete by BC and beyond. If the epics you worked your butt off to gain could be carried into each expansion, instead of the first BC green that drops turning your epic to yard sale garbage, this would be true immersion. That doesn't exist in the game, does it.
So, where's the immersion? I'm basically starting my character over with every expansion, gear-wise. There's no continuity, and d where there's no continuity there is no truly immersive experience. This, imo, is what the game lacks.
WoW is just easy to get into, nothing more. The game itself is very lacking.
What exactly is it lacking? List your top 5 features it should have, but doesn't.
5 things I wish WoW had but doesn't huh. Lets see,
1. Random generated loot. I for the life of me can not stand raiding. I prefer open worlds to instances. Also the little loot that is dropped form bosses bugs me. If I am going to spend hours inside of a dungeon I want to be rewarded.
2. More balanced pvp. This will likely never happen as the game was designed around pve.
3. It is way to easy to level in WoW. I prefer the "journey" when I play a game. I am not all about what you would call end-game. There is no immersion into the world.
4. I want the gear to not all look the same. This is lazy designing.
5. This last 1 is not really a feature. I want Blizzard to stop caitering to the cry babies on their forums, and actually build the game they intended to from the start.
I may seem to be 1 the haters people so often refer to, but I did enjoy WoW pre-BC. After that it has steadily gone down hill.
Developers won't do another thing until there is a market, and while WoW has a stranglehold on the market, that's not going to happen. That's why the small indi devs are the only ones taking risks, because they're happy with a few hundred thousand subscribers. It won't be one game that takes WoW off the top, it will be a series of games that cater to the wants of smaller groups, each of them siphoning users away.
"You will all be assimilated, resistance is futile."
Oh wait that's from another game. ::))))
Good God, tell me what do you search in MMORPG's s you possibly can't find in WOW? This isn't the kind of live saver 1.000.000 dollar question....
Another riverline, "meaningful PvP" (as if 200.000 dollar awards are not motivating enough), another forest?
Let''s face it. That's it: if you want something completely different step out of the market of level based gear wise Fantasy mmorpg's.
The two wings on Aion's shoulders won't help you out. You can see that with your eyes closed. I hope.
----> the problem is: time is running out, because even the principles of gear and experience levels are changing now.
And I have the impression Kaplan is already right on top of the next evolution in mmo's.
So better hurry up guys.
Ok, you're right, WoW is perfect, we do not, have not, and will not, ever need anything else. Long live the status quo!
What is this fixation with Word of Warcraft? why must it be killed beaten and mangled? And why in the world are so many companies focused on making thier own version ( to little to no success) of it? It has amazing figures but I still Play Pen and paper RPG with 8 of my friends, and we have alot of fun, why must numbers dictate if a game is good or not? 5000-300000 people playing a game is still alot of people isent it? Also its not World of warcrafts foult that other companies lack the imagination to creat something uniq by themselfs.
Other Devs should stop looking at WoW as a frame of Refrence when they make games People should just lay of the WoW hate, if the game was so bad it would not get 10m + subs now would it? stop whining on other games that do try to be diffrent, but might not have the budget, if you belive in the Idee and keep on subscribing they might actually get better.
Games that you might want to suport instead of bashing on WOW:
Pirates of the Burning Sea ( fun game I think) Age of Conan ( also a decent game when the bugs have been hammerd out) Lotro ( this game is going okey but it could do mush better) EvE ( just keeps getting biger and biger nothing will stop this game hehe) Champions online ( with a positive comunity this game can go a long way) Star trek online ( Might be the next big space MMO who knows, but it wont be perfect at the start so give it your suport)
All games listed above are good enough to play and some of them are truly brilliant. I say give them a chans for the first time or rejoin them and give them suport because then and only then Can they grow and become even better. On the other hand games the realy deserve to tank are:
Warhammer online (WAR) a wow clone, lets hope this one dies, it is a realy boring game, with bad game design. also I hate EA Star wars the Old Rebublic ( I hate EA did I mention that, plus I like the old Star Wars movies, the new shine stuff Is just Blehhe....) Jumpage Evolution ( tries to be an Easy EVE or something, never liked cloners...) Aion ( Korean, bot, exploit grindfest, lets hope this one stayes where it belongs in Korea and Asia.....)
WoW was a great game and I know that every MMO fan has atleast tried WoW. I got tired of the games repetiveness. I like it, but I though it was boring..
Umm game devs look at WoW when they are making games to see what they can pull from it into their games. Because if I was making an MMO and WoW had 8+mil ppl playing it and I wanted some of those players to come play my game I would take a few aspect of it as well. Now in 5+ years that wont be the case by then WoW will be over and done with.
And it is really bothering me how people drop the term 'WoW clone' as much as they do. I dont know if any of you played the MMO's pre-WoW, even the year WoW came out, all of those games where built like WoW minus a few things. WoW just got all the spotlight for being built better... Game devs arn't out to kill WoW, they are out to make money.... One reason Blizzard has done so well over the years is because they stick to what they know. Warcraft:Humans Vs. Orcs, was the begining of the Warcraft saga in video games, and now the bases of that game is part of the WoW universe.
Companies like SoE are out there to make money. And they are making alot of money. There are still alot of players on EQ and SWG, Vanguard, and the other games under SoE. But they are just making games to make money, which is why they dont really care if they go in and change the combat system of the already perfect SWG combat system (2004).
Blizzard has (well not now) alot to lose if they put out a bad patch and 1/2 of the WoW players stop playing. The money from WoW goes into continuing the Starcraft/Diablo/Warcraft series. And this is why Blizzard is doing so well. WoW is a well built game, aimed for kids in my op, but they make enough money to continue making the classics like Starcraft and Diablo. Instead of going out and making 4 MMO's to compete with themself's (SoE) they made one really good one.
I don't play WoW anymore but all the haters out there should just shutup and let time takes it course, and stop wishing WoW would die so other games can get the spotlight. Give it some time all the kids playing it will grow up and move on like we all have.
Actually and seriously, you are wrong on several points.
The title is awarded and brings a lot of ingame respect and recognition. It is the beginning of a change. Achievements have replaced epic gear these days (for the good and the bad). No the world changes according to what you do in the game. Apparently you don't know that. In Icecrown base after base is reconquered on the Lich King and the phasing is not using instances to represent it btw. I have two avatars standing next to each other and each see a different landscape, with NO loading screens and not using instances. It will be used in a big way in the next expansion btw, where high level characters will use these phasing techniques to go back to old Azeroth. There are heirlom gears. Gears that are bind on account and level up with your characters should you choose to use them. Like I said the new boosts in WOW these days are the achievements/titles and pets. They give status and replaced the show off epic gear. It sure is a sign new mmorpg's evolve in bringing other advancing symbols than pure gear and stats changers. even experience can now be turned off in WOW: giving goals to people other than just going to max level and go for titles and awards while not even reaching highest levels. That's the beauty in WOW: you can see the changes the industry leader adapts and will certainly use in its next MMORPG. Something a small third party developper simply doesn't have the means to. Blizzard assimilates and uses the newer techniques to the fullest. That's what's exciting.
1) Titles have meaning to you and only you. There's no respect gained for it. No one cares what your title is, dude. That's only in your mind. And how have achievements replace epic gear? The game is gear-based, not achievement based. There is no physical benefit to your character. Again, they give you a feeling of completion, perhaps. But they do not change your character in any way shape or form. If titles are reward enough for you for pvp, then I'm glad you feel good about yourself. But you've achieved nothing towards character advancement. That's my point.
2) I'll give you Ice Crown. I didn't know that. That's good. However, it still doesn't solve the problem of obsoleting the rest of the game world with every expansion. There should still be far more evolution in the older instances.
3) Heirloom gears, fine. Gemming gear, great. But you've still lost so much going from expansion to expansion with respect to any epics you've achieved, either at 60 or 70. Its worthless junk, and Blizzard could have done a far better job allowing certain gear to advance. You've run an instance 30 times to get a drop, and it gets obsolete with a BC green, and you're telling me that doesn't bother you? You see continuity there?
That still leaves a true hero class for those of us that have played since launch, and housing. These things would add so much to replayability
10 million subscriptions, while the nearest competition might have only 700k - That's all you need to know. With number disparities like this, it should not be a difficult to see why there is a fixation on what WoW does, how it does it, and what it will take to do something that can equal or best it.
Meth has millions of users, so it must not be bad for you.
What is this fixation with Word of Warcraft? 11 million subscribers = $$$ why must it be killed beaten and mangled? A lot of people, on this forum especially, hold a grudge against WoW. The whole idea of beating the current juggernaut is exciting for these people because it would mean justification for their grudge. And why in the world are so many companies focused on making thier own version ( to little to no success) of it? It was not long ago that World of Warcraft looked at the MMORPG market, found out what worked, and did their fair share of "copying". Although, I hesitate to call what they did copying due to how innovation their spin was. It has amazing figures but I still Play Pen and paper RPG with 8 of my friends, and we have alot of fun, why must numbers dictate if a game is good or not? In the pen and paper world, the amount of concurrent players can be as low as five or six for a single game. That's because the product that you buy is a hardcover book(s) with a one time cost. They do not have to patch more content into books, or host the books on servers. Unlike pen and paper, MMORPGs have a constant upkeep cost. This means that the game must generate constant revenue in order to keep themselves afloat. So, does the number of players dictate a "good" game. Maybe not, but a successful and lasting game 5000-300000 people playing a game is still alot of people isent it? By today's standards? I don't think so. The sheer lack of funding that small amount of paying customers brings in will not sustain a growing and updating game. You need millions of players paying a monthly fee to even come close to WoWs numbers, and nearly a million just to stay in the business. It costs a lot to keep all those employees working. Also its not World of warcrafts foult that other companies lack the imagination to creat something uniq by themselfs. I would not go as far as you did here. I think many games have tried to venture into the realm of unique and innovative. Although, sadly, I think the lack of financial backing for the genre is the real reason why most of the games you see lack real innovation or uniqueness.
Other Devs should stop looking at WoW as a frame of Refrence when they make games
I disagree. I think World of Warcraft got a lot of things right. Smart companies look at the success of others and use that knowledge to try and emulate that success. Sure, some go too far and make clones that never live up to the original. Just remember, World of Warcraft emulated a lot of game features that were currently in the genre already, but polished them beyond what other companies had managed.
People should just lay of the WoW hate, if the game was so bad it would not get 10m + subs now would it?
You'll get a lot of flames for this comment. A lot of people on this forum, like I said, hold a grudge against WoW. They will tell you that $$ =/= polish or quality. I don't agree with those people, though. I think that success in the market is more important than the pseudo quality and uncreatable content that most forum goers seek.
stop whining on other games that do try to be diffrent, but might not have the budget, if you belive in the Idee and keep on subscribing they might actually get better.
The problem here is the sheer amount of resources you would need to sink into a game to get their "dreams" to be realized. I don't think subscriber dollars alone would do it. A company would have to give their developers millions of dollars to make a AAA game in this market. Sadly, many game companies don't think MMOGs are worth the expense, especially when they can be contained in a browser and given away for free. Games that you might want to suport instead of bashing on WOW:
Pirates of the Burning Sea ( fun game I think)
Never played it.
Age of Conan ( also a decent game when the bugs have been hammerd out)
A bad beginning usually sinks an MMORPG even when they finally finish polishing the game. Remember Anarchy Online? It was horribly bug ridden when it launched. Now it is vastly improved, but the subscriptions never came back.
Lotro ( this game is going okey but it could do mush better)
I think this is the general claim from players. The game supposedly lacks endgame content and struggles to maintain fun over time. I personally could not stand the high system requirements that forced a lot of players to turn everything down to make the game playable. I also felt the game's combat system was lacking and the armor and character models were uninspired and the world was bland even on high settings.
EvE ( just keeps getting biger and biger nothing will stop this game hehe)
Is and always will be a niche game. Although there is a big fan base on this site.
Champions online ( with a positive comunity this game can go a long way)
This game isn't out yet so I reserve judgment. The community can mean a lot in a smaller game, though.
Star trek online ( Might be the next big space MMO who knows, but it wont be perfect at the start so give it your suport)
I highly doubt it. All games listed above are good enough to play and some of them are truly brilliant. I say give them a chans for the first time or rejoin them and give them suport because then and only then Can they grow and become even better. On the other hand games the realy deserve to tank are:
Warhammer online (WAR) a wow clone, lets hope this one dies, it is a realy boring game, with bad game design. also I hate EAStar wars the Old Rebublic ( I hate EA did I mention that, plus I like the old Star Wars movies, the new shine stuff Is just Blehhe....)
Jumpage Evolution ( tries to be an Easy EVE or something, never liked cloners...) Aion ( Korean, bot, exploit grindfest, lets hope this one stayes where it belongs in Korea and Asia.....)
I find it odd that you ended this post with such negative critiques. Especially since you put some games above that are not even out and seemed to give them positive reviews. If you hate EA I find it really interesting that you seem to be a fan of Fun Com.
1) Titles have meaning to you and only you. There's no respect gained for it. No one cares what your title is, dude. That's only in your mind. And how have achievements replace epic gear? The game is gear-based, not achievement based. There is no physical benefit to your character. Again, they give you a feeling of completion, perhaps. But they do not change your character in any way shape or form. If titles are reward enough for you for pvp, then I'm glad you feel good about yourself. But you've achieved nothing towards character advancement. That's my point.
2) I'll give you Ice Crown. I didn't know that. That's good. However, it still doesn't solve the problem of obsoleting the rest of the game world with every expansion. There should still be far more evolution in the older instances.
3) Heirloom gears, fine. Gemming gear, great. But you've still lost so much going from expansion to expansion with respect to any epics you've achieved, either at 60 or 70. Its worthless junk, and Blizzard could have done a far better job allowing certain gear to advance. You've run an instance 30 times to get a drop, and it gets obsolete with a BC green, and you're telling me that doesn't bother you? You see continuity there?
That still leaves a true hero class for those of us that have played since launch, and housing. These things would add so much to replayability
1) Thats why i get like 3 billion whispers a day talking about me being ranked #1 in our battlegroup,
2) Its not as good as he makes it sound.
3)If you get attached to gear thats pretty sad, the only reason you should be doing raids for gear is to get strong enough for the next raid. You seem like you are a roleplayer based on your obsession with hero class and changing the virtual world or some shit like that. So the only reason you should be doing raids is to either A) Gear up for PVP Learn more about the story. ( im an A by the way)
Houses have and always will be useless in an mmorpg it brings nothing to the table, yay i get to decorate my virtual house. Get a life.
A true hero class? you are already a Hero. Or do you want to be called Uber Druid #10872 or Super Warrior# 917 or maybe
You want replayabilty? Why? so you can keep playing the same game over and over again? if you want that then thats sad. Seeing as how WoW constantly adds new content. Dumbest complaint ive ever heard, Oh no they keep adding new content so i cant keep replaying the old content boo hoo.
Originally posted by Kyleran WOW must never be killed. Seriously, think of the type of people you know who still play WOW, would you really want them playing in your games? Didn't think so.
Yeah, because all the other MMOs have such greeeeeat communities.
All the WoW haters like to say that WoW has the worst community and is full of kiddies but turn a blind eye to how awful the community is in their favorite MMO.
I find this especially funny coming from an outspoken advocate of Eve(the real worst MMO community ever).
Originally posted by andrelle 1) Titles have meaning to you and only you. There's no respect gained for it. No one cares what your title is, dude. That's only in your mind. And how have achievements replace epic gear? The game is gear-based, not achievement based. There is no physical benefit to your character. Again, they give you a feeling of completion, perhaps. But they do not change your character in any way shape or form. If titles are reward enough for you for pvp, then I'm glad you feel good about yourself. But you've achieved nothing towards character advancement. That's my point. 2) I'll give you Ice Crown. I didn't know that. That's good. However, it still doesn't solve the problem of obsoleting the rest of the game world with every expansion. There should still be far more evolution in the older instances. 3) Heirloom gears, fine. Gemming gear, great. But you've still lost so much going from expansion to expansion with respect to any epics you've achieved, either at 60 or 70. Its worthless junk, and Blizzard could have done a far better job allowing certain gear to advance. You've run an instance 30 times to get a drop, and it gets obsolete with a BC green, and you're telling me that doesn't bother you? You see continuity there? That still leaves a true hero class for those of us that have played since launch, and housing. These things would add so much to replayability
1. Titles have as much meaning as gear does. You do not give respect to the character but to the player. As such it is irrelevant if the character has epic gear or an epic title, the player still has to earn my respect. You get respect for what you do and not what you get. A title or gear simply informs people of what content you have finished.
2. Old content becomes obsolete because it is old content that people have done many times already. I would not run old world content again unless it is completely revamped which would make it new content.
3. That was a design flaw with the original game. It put too much emphasis on running content over and over until it lost all meaning beside the gear. It was actually quite liberating for me to be freed from that burden and to enjoy playing for the content and not the gear.
I think the only reason people talk about "wow killers" is due to subscription numbers.
As for the rest I really hate watching people judge games that you can't even play yet. Its like writing a review of a film or novel before you watch it or read it. (makes no sense).
Also if you want to criticise games already out or not out yet you should really reconsider using comments about whining lol
Appart from that the term WoW killer does not equal WoW clone in my mind. It simply has to draw an audience as big or bigger then WoW does, but it does not have to be a clone to do this.
I am seeing a lot of stuff being designed now that appear not to be designed anything like WoW that are going to be released in the next year that appear also to be AAA titles. I think WoW has some competition coming and so that is why people are dubbing them as WoW killers but they wont be like WoW (one can hope) .
Seriously, think of the type of people you know who still play WOW, would you really want them playing in your games?
Didn't think so.
Yeah, because all the other MMOs have such greeeeeat communities.
All the WoW haters like to say that WoW has the worst community and is full of kiddies but turn a blind eye to how awful the community is in their favorite MMO.
I find this especially funny coming from an outspoken advocate of Eve(the real worst MMO community ever).
/agree
The idea that World of Warcraft has some sort of horrible booger-ridden dirty diaper loud mouth baby QQ community is pretty laughable considering the amount of communities represented on this forum. I've had worse experiences in other MMORPGs with elitism and childishness. Age of Conan is a great representation, along with Anarchy Online and SWG.
What is this fixation with Word of Warcraft? Seems to be very popular, could explain the fixation. why must it be killed beaten and mangled? Not sure, but then again I only see wanna be gamers wanting it to be beat or mangeld. And why in the world are so many companies focused on making thier own version ( to little to no success) of it? Well it must be me, but I only see people with a certain playstyle that often will YELL WOW CLONE and I feel it has more to do with their playstyle then it has to do with the games itself. It has amazing figures but I still Play Pen and paper RPG with 8 of my friends, and we have alot of fun, why must numbers dictate if a game is good or not? For new people into games they pretend its a dedication of succes. While I will never disagree on WOW being a financial succes I personaly enjoyed the game for some time but to me it was not a succesfull game, see it's personal, just how it's personal that people ARE enjoying WOW. 5000-300000 people playing a game is still alot of people isent it? Also its not World of warcrafts foult that other companies lack the imagination to creat something uniq by themselfs. The only thing I felt was unique with World of Warcraft was it's artstyle, the rest was far from being unique to me which is again personal and based on experiance in this genre.
Other Devs should stop looking at WoW as a frame of Refrence when they make games AGREE, but I do feel that it's more the people trying to play games that keep refering to WOW more so then developers do, in any case WOW is popular so we are bound to hear someting about it. People should just lay of the WoW hate, if the game was so bad it would not get 10m + subs now would it? Anyone able to HATE a game should stop playing all together and find him/herself another hobby. stop whining on other games that do try to be diffrent, but might not have the budget, if you belive in the Idee and keep on subscribing they might actually get better.
Games that you might want to suport instead of bashing on WOW:
Pirates of the Burning Sea ( fun game I think) Didn't like it, which DOES NOT mean the game sucks, it just means I didn't like it. Then again you won't really see me bashing any game.....for the new gen gamer when he or she dislikes something they whole game must suck for anyone else trying to play game X Age of Conan ( also a decent game when the bugs have been hammerd out) Played in beta, squased some bugs, played from release till about 2 months but didn't encounter much bugs and those I did encounter never broke my gameplay, ended the game cause overall it was to much combat to little world feel. Lotro ( this game is going okey but it could do mush better) Was in CB and OB, but OB even bought the game on release but never got to install it, as from what my experiance taught me in beta is that it wasn't the right game for me, in a way I felt it looked to "sweet" for my taste, but can definitly understand and see why many do enjoy the game. EvE ( just keeps getting biger and biger nothing will stop this game hehe) Love many feature's in EVE but really dislike the ofline training while the game supports allot of freedom, I felt to confined in being a spaceship only, will definitly try it again once Ambulant or what it's called gets released.....one day. Champions online ( with a positive comunity this game can go a long way) Not sure as nothing much atracts me about Champions online, again thats personal as I don't have any bakcground connection with the serie, I just have a different view on what I would like to see as a superhero MMORPG, I will however be trying/playing DCUO, mainly due to the familiarity, but again am not seeing it as a MMORPG, but more as a Action Online Game. Star trek online ( Might be the next big space MMO who knows, but it wont be perfect at the start so give it your suport) Definitly gonna give the game a try, just wished it was developed by those who are developing it, then again it's far to early to speculate and we'll see in time, hope it's good, but with IP's like this I want to live in that universe and am afraid it will be to much of a game to create that feel, again personal.......
All games listed above are good enough to play and some of them are truly brilliant. I say give them a chans for the first time or rejoin them and give them suport because then and only then Can they grow and become even better. On the other hand games the realy deserve to tank are: RULE 3?????
Warhammer online (WAR) a wow clone, lets hope this one dies, it is a realy boring game, with bad game design. also I hate EA. I tested in beta, played at release, it didn't fit my playstyle, but never the less I can understand those who enjoy the game, that mention of WOW clone is created by a persons playstyle. Geuss many just don't know the Warhammer universe..... Star wars the Old Rebublic ( I hate EA did I mention that, plus I like the old Star Wars movies, the new shine stuff Is just Blehhe....) I am very intrested into what Bioware will manage with their first MMO, more so then the game being a Star Wars game, while I am a Star Wars fan, but again for a MMO with a well known IP I want to live in that universe, but will play it anyway...regardless......... Jumpage Evolution ( tries to be an Easy EVE or something, never liked cloners...) Yeah imagine more space MMORPG, like developers want to try something different? you forgot your own rule 3?, oh sure call it a EVE clone, while the game seems nothing like EVE at all, which can be good/bad. Aion ( Korean, bot, exploit grindfest, lets hope this one stayes where it belongs in Korea and Asia.....) You might not like it, I myself have hardly looked into it due to it being fantasy based, but do you really have such a limited view or playstyle on games in this genre?
I find it odd that you ended this post with such negative critiques. Especially since you put some games above that are not even out and seemed to give them positive reviews. If you hate EA I find it really interesting that you seem to be a fan of Fun Com.
First of Retrospectic thank you for answering my post. I liked that you took your time reading it. And you put forward some good points.
Now to answer why I ended it with some negative critiques is that I personaly think EA has screwed up alot of games. And they are in my opinion more focused on the $$$ then on actually making a good games. And Im not a big fan of Fun Com but at least they tried to make a few innovation with both Anarchy online and Age of Conan. EA Mythics warhammer on the other hand was one of the most mediocre games Iv played in a long while. And I have little to no hope that EA Bioware is going to pull of anything spectacular with The old Rebublic.
My post was also directed towards those people that hate WoW, but always end up Bashing the other games they try. They trash WoW but they cant seam to find any game that is good enough for them. That is why I asked Why must WoW be Killed, what is the fixation with this game, and why do Developers cave in and try to make games that resemble it.
I agree with you Retrospectic that its probably the Mighty Dollar that make it this way. But if more people that so loudly advocate its WoWs demise put thier time into suporting more Independent Developers, we might realy see some changes in the genre.
ps: The games I listed was my personal opinion, I think some games are more promising then others and some deserve more respect then they have got.
I usually play what is fun and then move on/take a break to try something else that I think seems fun.
I played WAR for awhile, I thought it was fun for the most part, after awhile the poor coding and general stiffness started to pluck my nerves. I'm not trying to compare it to WoW or anything, but for the type of game they were trying to create, it seemed they could have done better in executing the freedom and taken away alot of the clunky character movement. However that was only a sliver of what I think went wrong with the game.
I liked Conan for awhile, I decided it wasn't the type of game to make me linger around much longer, Probably because the only thing anyone wanted to do on my server was PVP in the chasm. (Literally, I couldn't find groups for anything else.)
I was on WoW since Beta, it was very ugly during those stages and come launch, it didn't start out with half a million subs, it takes time, love and the tears of broken marriages to create a harbinger.
I can go on for awhile, all the way back to UO and NWN, but few people remember those.
I continue my quest for fun, even if it is for few months at a time, I eventually return to play when I feel like it.
WoW must be destroyed because it's the champion of all MMOs. And every champion must be brought to their knees and have them beg for their lives. It's not because WoW sucks, it's because we humans KNOW that we're capable of making an MMO lightyears better than WoW. Okay, yes, WoW does suck. Just like everything else here on earth, it gets old, and we need something new about every 3 years or so. Not 5. Aion and other games that might be coming out soon, may not become as big as WoW, but people are looking for something that will get their mind off it. So just like the Roman Empire, the Greeks, and Atlantis, and whatever big empire there was in history, WoW must fall. That's just how things work here on earth. And one more thing...........Happy 4th of July everyone! God bless America!
Originally posted by jjjk29 Companies like SoE are out there to make money. And they are making alot of money. There are still alot of players on EQ and SWG, Vanguard, and the other games under SoE. But they are just making games to make money, which is why they dont really care if they go in and change the combat system of the already perfect SWG combat system (2004).
Companies like Blizzard, Turbine, Mythic, et al are out there to make money, too. Otherwise, why would they be in the business? SOE must be doing something right in the eyes of its continuing subscribership, otherwise they'd do something different. SOE is a popular whipping post in MMOland, but they're obviously successful nonetheless.
ALL businesses are in it for the money. Otherwise, they'd not be businesses but non-profit organizations. This little fact seems to escape quite a few people.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
Comments
lol exactly. That's why I'm ok with each game taking away a few players, skimming the cream off of the top. WoW can keep the bottom dwellers
The "rare titles" are meaningless. Its a title you can do nothing with, as are the achievements. There is no sense of loss for your character if you are defeated in open world pvp, as in UO. You may achieve Deadly Gladiator and flaunt it all you want, but if someone defeats you after you've gained your title, what does it mean? Where's the trophy?
How does the storyline change the game world? In what way? Faction wins? That's temporary. Read what I wrote. My example sites instances that evolve. Since its an instance, its not an overall change to the game world, so newbs won't have their gameplay affected. However, an instance will no longer be obsolete. Molten Core would once again have meaning, as the items you gain from its completion would be valuable post level 60. See my point?
What items and gear level with you? Are you talking about gemming your gear? I'm talking about epics made obsolete by BC and beyond. If the epics you worked your butt off to gain could be carried into each expansion, instead of the first BC green that drops turning your epic to yard sale garbage, this would be true immersion. That doesn't exist in the game, does it.
So, where's the immersion? I'm basically starting my character over with every expansion, gear-wise. There's no continuity, and d where there's no continuity there is no truly immersive experience. This, imo, is what the game lacks.
What exactly is it lacking? List your top 5 features it should have, but doesn't.
5 things I wish WoW had but doesn't huh. Lets see,
1. Random generated loot. I for the life of me can not stand raiding. I prefer open worlds to instances. Also the little loot that is dropped form bosses bugs me. If I am going to spend hours inside of a dungeon I want to be rewarded.
2. More balanced pvp. This will likely never happen as the game was designed around pve.
3. It is way to easy to level in WoW. I prefer the "journey" when I play a game. I am not all about what you would call end-game. There is no immersion into the world.
4. I want the gear to not all look the same. This is lazy designing.
5. This last 1 is not really a feature. I want Blizzard to stop caitering to the cry babies on their forums, and actually build the game they intended to from the start.
I may seem to be 1 the haters people so often refer to, but I did enjoy WoW pre-BC. After that it has steadily gone down hill.
"You will all be assimilated, resistance is futile."
Oh wait that's from another game. ::))))
Good God, tell me what do you search in MMORPG's s you possibly can't find in WOW? This isn't the kind of live saver 1.000.000 dollar question....
Another riverline, "meaningful PvP" (as if 200.000 dollar awards are not motivating enough), another forest?
Let''s face it. That's it: if you want something completely different step out of the market of level based gear wise Fantasy mmorpg's.
The two wings on Aion's shoulders won't help you out. You can see that with your eyes closed. I hope.
----> the problem is: time is running out, because even the principles of gear and experience levels are changing now.
And I have the impression Kaplan is already right on top of the next evolution in mmo's.
So better hurry up guys.
Ok, you're right, WoW is perfect, we do not, have not, and will not, ever need anything else. Long live the status quo!
In response to the title:
So we can stop having idiotic, WoW-obsessed threads like this one.
WoW was a great game and I know that every MMO fan has atleast tried WoW. I got tired of the games repetiveness. I like it, but I though it was boring..
Umm game devs look at WoW when they are making games to see what they can pull from it into their games. Because if I was making an MMO and WoW had 8+mil ppl playing it and I wanted some of those players to come play my game I would take a few aspect of it as well. Now in 5+ years that wont be the case by then WoW will be over and done with.
And it is really bothering me how people drop the term 'WoW clone' as much as they do. I dont know if any of you played the MMO's pre-WoW, even the year WoW came out, all of those games where built like WoW minus a few things. WoW just got all the spotlight for being built better... Game devs arn't out to kill WoW, they are out to make money.... One reason Blizzard has done so well over the years is because they stick to what they know. Warcraft:Humans Vs. Orcs, was the begining of the Warcraft saga in video games, and now the bases of that game is part of the WoW universe.
Companies like SoE are out there to make money. And they are making alot of money. There are still alot of players on EQ and SWG, Vanguard, and the other games under SoE. But they are just making games to make money, which is why they dont really care if they go in and change the combat system of the already perfect SWG combat system (2004).
Blizzard has (well not now) alot to lose if they put out a bad patch and 1/2 of the WoW players stop playing. The money from WoW goes into continuing the Starcraft/Diablo/Warcraft series. And this is why Blizzard is doing so well. WoW is a well built game, aimed for kids in my op, but they make enough money to continue making the classics like Starcraft and Diablo. Instead of going out and making 4 MMO's to compete with themself's (SoE) they made one really good one.
I don't play WoW anymore but all the haters out there should just shutup and let time takes it course, and stop wishing WoW would die so other games can get the spotlight. Give it some time all the kids playing it will grow up and move on like we all have.
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1) Titles have meaning to you and only you. There's no respect gained for it. No one cares what your title is, dude. That's only in your mind. And how have achievements replace epic gear? The game is gear-based, not achievement based. There is no physical benefit to your character. Again, they give you a feeling of completion, perhaps. But they do not change your character in any way shape or form. If titles are reward enough for you for pvp, then I'm glad you feel good about yourself. But you've achieved nothing towards character advancement. That's my point.
2) I'll give you Ice Crown. I didn't know that. That's good. However, it still doesn't solve the problem of obsoleting the rest of the game world with every expansion. There should still be far more evolution in the older instances.
3) Heirloom gears, fine. Gemming gear, great. But you've still lost so much going from expansion to expansion with respect to any epics you've achieved, either at 60 or 70. Its worthless junk, and Blizzard could have done a far better job allowing certain gear to advance. You've run an instance 30 times to get a drop, and it gets obsolete with a BC green, and you're telling me that doesn't bother you? You see continuity there?
That still leaves a true hero class for those of us that have played since launch, and housing. These things would add so much to replayability
Or said in a different way: some people feel their own standards are superior to others'.
Meth has millions of users, so it must not be bad for you.
No reply from the OP. Telling.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
1) Titles have meaning to you and only you. There's no respect gained for it. No one cares what your title is, dude. That's only in your mind. And how have achievements replace epic gear? The game is gear-based, not achievement based. There is no physical benefit to your character. Again, they give you a feeling of completion, perhaps. But they do not change your character in any way shape or form. If titles are reward enough for you for pvp, then I'm glad you feel good about yourself. But you've achieved nothing towards character advancement. That's my point.
2) I'll give you Ice Crown. I didn't know that. That's good. However, it still doesn't solve the problem of obsoleting the rest of the game world with every expansion. There should still be far more evolution in the older instances.
3) Heirloom gears, fine. Gemming gear, great. But you've still lost so much going from expansion to expansion with respect to any epics you've achieved, either at 60 or 70. Its worthless junk, and Blizzard could have done a far better job allowing certain gear to advance. You've run an instance 30 times to get a drop, and it gets obsolete with a BC green, and you're telling me that doesn't bother you? You see continuity there?
That still leaves a true hero class for those of us that have played since launch, and housing. These things would add so much to replayability
1) Thats why i get like 3 billion whispers a day talking about me being ranked #1 in our battlegroup,
2) Its not as good as he makes it sound.
3)If you get attached to gear thats pretty sad, the only reason you should be doing raids for gear is to get strong enough for the next raid. You seem like you are a roleplayer based on your obsession with hero class and changing the virtual world or some shit like that. So the only reason you should be doing raids is to either A) Gear up for PVP
Learn more about the story. ( im an A by the way)
Houses have and always will be useless in an mmorpg it brings nothing to the table, yay i get to decorate my virtual house. Get a life.
A true hero class? you are already a Hero. Or do you want to be called Uber Druid #10872 or Super Warrior# 917 or maybe
Hero Rogue #972
You want replayabilty? Why? so you can keep playing the same game over and over again? if you want that then thats sad. Seeing as how WoW constantly adds new content. Dumbest complaint ive ever heard, Oh no they keep adding new content so i cant keep replaying the old content boo hoo.
All the WoW haters like to say that WoW has the worst community and is full of kiddies but turn a blind eye to how awful the community is in their favorite MMO.
I find this especially funny coming from an outspoken advocate of Eve(the real worst MMO community ever).
1. Titles have as much meaning as gear does. You do not give respect to the character but to the player. As such it is irrelevant if the character has epic gear or an epic title, the player still has to earn my respect. You get respect for what you do and not what you get. A title or gear simply informs people of what content you have finished.
2. Old content becomes obsolete because it is old content that people have done many times already. I would not run old world content again unless it is completely revamped which would make it new content.
3. That was a design flaw with the original game. It put too much emphasis on running content over and over until it lost all meaning beside the gear. It was actually quite liberating for me to be freed from that burden and to enjoy playing for the content and not the gear.
I think the only reason people talk about "wow killers" is due to subscription numbers.
As for the rest I really hate watching people judge games that you can't even play yet. Its like writing a review of a film or novel before you watch it or read it. (makes no sense).
Also if you want to criticise games already out or not out yet you should really reconsider using comments about whining lol
Appart from that the term WoW killer does not equal WoW clone in my mind. It simply has to draw an audience as big or bigger then WoW does, but it does not have to be a clone to do this.
I am seeing a lot of stuff being designed now that appear not to be designed anything like WoW that are going to be released in the next year that appear also to be AAA titles. I think WoW has some competition coming and so that is why people are dubbing them as WoW killers but they wont be like WoW (one can hope) .
All the WoW haters like to say that WoW has the worst community and is full of kiddies but turn a blind eye to how awful the community is in their favorite MMO.
I find this especially funny coming from an outspoken advocate of Eve(the real worst MMO community ever).
/agree
The idea that World of Warcraft has some sort of horrible booger-ridden dirty diaper loud mouth baby QQ community is pretty laughable considering the amount of communities represented on this forum. I've had worse experiences in other MMORPGs with elitism and childishness. Age of Conan is a great representation, along with Anarchy Online and SWG.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
First of Retrospectic thank you for answering my post. I liked that you took your time reading it. And you put forward some good points.
Now to answer why I ended it with some negative critiques is that I personaly think EA has screwed up alot of games. And they are in my opinion more focused on the $$$ then on actually making a good games. And Im not a big fan of Fun Com but at least they tried to make a few innovation with both Anarchy online and Age of Conan. EA Mythics warhammer on the other hand was one of the most mediocre games Iv played in a long while. And I have little to no hope that EA Bioware is going to pull of anything spectacular with The old Rebublic.
My post was also directed towards those people that hate WoW, but always end up Bashing the other games they try. They trash WoW but they cant seam to find any game that is good enough for them. That is why I asked Why must WoW be Killed, what is the fixation with this game, and why do Developers cave in and try to make games that resemble it.
I agree with you Retrospectic that its probably the Mighty Dollar that make it this way. But if more people that so loudly advocate its WoWs demise put thier time into suporting more Independent Developers, we might realy see some changes in the genre.
ps: The games I listed was my personal opinion, I think some games are more promising then others and some deserve more respect then they have got.
I'm looking forward to SWTOR and TSW.
I usually play what is fun and then move on/take a break to try something else that I think seems fun.
I played WAR for awhile, I thought it was fun for the most part, after awhile the poor coding and general stiffness started to pluck my nerves. I'm not trying to compare it to WoW or anything, but for the type of game they were trying to create, it seemed they could have done better in executing the freedom and taken away alot of the clunky character movement. However that was only a sliver of what I think went wrong with the game.
I liked Conan for awhile, I decided it wasn't the type of game to make me linger around much longer, Probably because the only thing anyone wanted to do on my server was PVP in the chasm. (Literally, I couldn't find groups for anything else.)
I was on WoW since Beta, it was very ugly during those stages and come launch, it didn't start out with half a million subs, it takes time, love and the tears of broken marriages to create a harbinger.
I can go on for awhile, all the way back to UO and NWN, but few people remember those.
I continue my quest for fun, even if it is for few months at a time, I eventually return to play when I feel like it.
No, no, no. WoW must be beaten, then killed, preferably with a wooden stake.
Seriously though, why wouldn't you want to play something better than WoW?
WoW must be destroyed because it's the champion of all MMOs. And every champion must be brought to their knees and have them beg for their lives. It's not because WoW sucks, it's because we humans KNOW that we're capable of making an MMO lightyears better than WoW. Okay, yes, WoW does suck. Just like everything else here on earth, it gets old, and we need something new about every 3 years or so. Not 5. Aion and other games that might be coming out soon, may not become as big as WoW, but people are looking for something that will get their mind off it. So just like the Roman Empire, the Greeks, and Atlantis, and whatever big empire there was in history, WoW must fall. That's just how things work here on earth. And one more thing...........Happy 4th of July everyone! God bless America!
ROFL.
Long Story
Only upset ex-players want it killed. No one else cares.
Companies like Blizzard, Turbine, Mythic, et al are out there to make money, too. Otherwise, why would they be in the business? SOE must be doing something right in the eyes of its continuing subscribership, otherwise they'd do something different. SOE is a popular whipping post in MMOland, but they're obviously successful nonetheless.
ALL businesses are in it for the money. Otherwise, they'd not be businesses but non-profit organizations. This little fact seems to escape quite a few people.
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous