Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so.
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? "I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.".
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
So whether I sound fair to you or not, my point still stands. There won't be any good games like our old games until either the casuals pick up their ball and go home, or devs make games for the pleasure of making games like they used to; with profit being a pleasing side effect rather than the sole driving force.
I pretty much agree but you lost me there at the end. In the real world its all about the money. Try going to your bank and telling them you want to borrow money for project X and tell them it wont make any money but it would be fun.
Why wouldn't it make any money? Oh, that's right. Because a game is only successful with millions of subs rather than a couple hundred thousand.
And that's not a jab at you but at the moronic devs who believe that crap. Even Darkfall, as much of a failure as it was known to be long before it released, managed to get funding.
Once again i agree. I f ind it funny that a game like LOTRO, EQ2 and others are considered a failure becasue it doesnt have the sub numbers as WOW but having said that, greed is a powerful entity and it seems to be the controlling factor.
Why wouldn't it make any money? Oh, that's right. Because a game is only successful with millions of subs rather than a couple hundred thousand.
Once again i agree. I f ind it funny that a game like LOTRO, EQ2 and others are considered a failure becasue it doesnt have the sub numbers as WOW but having said that, greed is a powerful entity and it seems to be the controlling factor.
I would like to clarify...
"... it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest."
I did not claim nor will claim that developers tailoring to casual gamers is a good or a bad thing. I merely called out on this trend, and hence the many so labeled "WoW clones". It is true that the market is very much money driven, but that's not such a bad thing. Like I said before, with many games out there competing for fan base, it would ultimately lead to better games for everyone to suit their gaming desires.
"What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? 'I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.'"
I frown upon those players who want the results but don't want to put in the work. The fun in the game should be in the process of playing it, not in showing off amount of exp/money "bought" and gear. It's quite frustrating dealing with gold farmers. But I like said about supply and demand, as long as there are people willing to pay for this, the situation won't improve.
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
I don't see how you can verify this information, but I do have a valid comment. A majority of people don't handle change very well; they want what feel comfortable, and for many, this would be the easy "casual" gamer version. This is an unfortunate phenomenon. The only solution I see is for the developers to stand their ground, and "force" gamers to adapt to the game as it was meant to be played. I came across this very situation earlier in a thread about Aion, in how some people were disillusioned by the fact the game has "forced PvP". Someone wrote that the players should try the game as the developers intended, and if they don't like, play some other game.
"Why wouldn't it make any money? Oh, that's right. Because a game is only successful with millions of subs rather than a couple hundred thousand."
Sad but true.
The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
truth is, that for vet players its just same shit different color, whatever devs bring out.
Vanguard, wh, conan..
Buggy swg... then broken swg..
All mmos are now just sucky, its same shit with WoW being around every corner, you forget about the small stuff, when its half empty servers, or givin ya a feelin of single palyer, ye get the idea "wtf i am wastin time here for.." and Bah.
I dont remember playing anything from the point vanguard came out and so on for more than a month.
Only eve, cause ya can grind with just paying, and not doing anything.
Anyway, im myself just tired, i played it all, saw it all. Ultima would still beat most other games for the sake of possibitilies. But doh, you can raise all skills in a macro there now, its lost its feelin, numbed, dulled, blunt.
The biggest problem with people posting their thoughts on games here is that they usually complain about one or two things in an MMO that breaks it for them, but not everything else.
For instance, I'm a WoW quitter. I got an 80 Shammy and 80 Warrior. I know the game pretty well, know my classes pretty well, can successfully raid and PvP with both (I'm not on a ladder or anything, but I can hold my own). So why did I quit? Well, 3 years of the same stuff gets a little old. Especially playing my shammy where my attack chain is FS, LvB, LB, LB, LB, LvB, LB, LB, LB, FS, LVB, LB, LB, LB, etc etc etc... It's really a great game. How can I play it for 3 years and say it's a bad game? It was obviously very good! But just because someone else says, "WoW's economy is broken," or "WoW's PvP is broken," or "WoW's Shamans are broken," etc doesn't mean it's bad at all.
The only way to know if a game is bad or not is to try it out. The problem with this is obviously a trial that either limits you to a level cap or an amount of time. But it's still better to try a trial, see if you're even interested in a game, and then give it a shot. I just downloaded the Age of Conan trial to see how I like it, and I'm hoping to be pleased, but we'll see.
Good luck on your search for a different game. If I were you, the first thing I would do is decide what aspect of the MMO is most important to you, such as combat, crafting, story, raiding, etc, and go from there to decide what to try out.
"Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life." Simone Weil
Yes, I was reffering to the people that post on this site. So having just quit wow after 3 years I have nothing to look forward to.
Great.
Well will you be interested in playing a game that feels and plays similar to WoW but looks different? There are plenty of those coming out. So if that's your cup of tea, then I think you'll be all set for a while.
As far as anything revolutionary goes, I think that these designers need to throw away the usual formula and think about how to make a game fun using 1000 players. How can they make the game world more dynamic based on the actual player's decisions. Let the players change the world. The problem with games like WoW is that the game world is static. The designers of these games need to start thinking in terms of the player's actions and how to generate change based on them. They're designing these games from the wrong angle. They create the stories and outcomes based on the Non Players in the world and not the real player characters.
Yes, I was reffering to the people that post on this site. So having just quit wow after 3 years I have nothing to look forward to.
Great.
Well will you be interested in playing a game that feels and plays similar to WoW but looks different? There are plenty of those coming out. So if that's your cup of tea, then I think you'll be all set for a while.
As far as anything revolutionary goes, I think that these designers need to throw away the usual formula and think about how to make a game fun using 1000 players. How can they make the game world more dynamic based on the actual player's decisions. Let the players change the world. The problem with games like WoW is that the game world is static. The designers of these games need to start thinking in terms of the player's actions and how to generate change based on them. They're designing these games from the wrong angle. They create the stories and outcomes based on the Non Players in the world and not the real player characters.
EVE is like that. The PvE in EVE sucks, pretty much everything is player driven.
I just wish the game was more balanced and wasn't a huge timesink.
Really cant be bothered typing so I'll just get to the point. MMORPG basically thinks that every MMO sucks. No one likes WoW and that all the MMO's coming out, like Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so. Is there actually an MMO that's coming out that is actually supposed to reveloutionise the genre?
Edit: Yes I know, I know all of wow's flaws having played it for 3 and a half years, don't bother listing them all.
There are some games in the distant future that are "out of the box" thinking. So dont give up hope yet. World of Darkness and Earthrise comes to mind.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR. Playing EVE Online and AOC. Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
There's basically two kinds of "it sucks" posts around here:
"I played [Game X] for three years and it SUCKS!" No, it doesn't suck -- you got burnt out. "I tried the free trial for [Game X] for 15 minutes, and I could tell right away that it didn't match the utopian MMORPG I have imagined in my mind. Therefore, it SUCKS!"
You forgot the most common:
3. "I've never played it, but I heard from someone online that it sucked so I'm going to post that it sucks too!"
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
Like it or not, it's the casual gamers who bring almost all of the money to the MMO marketplace. They are the biggest chunk of the pie out there and without them, MMOs as we know them today simply wouldn't exist. You'd still have a few small games that can attract a few thousand people, but those would be few and far between.
The casual gamer hasn't demanded that devs make games that appealed to them, it's the devs who recognized that without the casual gamers, their games would go bankrupt and tailored their games to the casual player. The hardcore player is entirely irrelevant, there just aren't enough of them, if they all vanished tomorrow, the MMO market would continue entirely unaffected.
Some people need to learn basic economics. He who has the money, makes the rules. All the money is in the hands of the casual gamers.
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
Like it or not, it's the casual gamers who bring almost all of the money to the MMO marketplace. They are the biggest chunk of the pie out there and without them, MMOs as we know them today simply wouldn't exist. You'd still have a few small games that can attract a few thousand people, but those would be few and far between.
The casual gamer hasn't demanded that devs make games that appealed to them, it's the devs who recognized that without the casual gamers, their games would go bankrupt and tailored their games to the casual player. The hardcore player is entirely irrelevant, there just aren't enough of them, if they all vanished tomorrow, the MMO market would continue entirely unaffected.
Some people need to learn basic economics. He who has the money, makes the rules. All the money is in the hands of the casual gamers.
While Zorvan's one of the intelligent posters here, that I've noticed, I have to refer to my post earlier in this thread.
You're right, Cephus, and it's one of the reasons why so much hope is being placed in some of these indy developers. Look at Darkfall. With a larger company, you know they're in it for the money, which means they will try to attract casuals over hardcores and they'll build off of the WoW model. But with an indy developer, there's a sense of "they're gamers too; they're not money hungry bastards. They know what we want, what we miss, and they seem to be making a game that they themselves enjoy - whether it has a million subs or not."
CCP was an indy company who did things right - Aventurine is the opposite. I know though that plenty of hope was put in Aventurine, and plenty of slack was given to them (wrongly) because they were an indy company. They should've been prepared to compete in the "brutal" market, and no slack should be given.
Yet there are people playing Darkfall, since it's kind of a "homemade" product rather than the mass-produced MMOs by larger companies. Even with all the bugs and crap, they still manage to have fun one way or another.
I suppose I can understand that. I enjoyed Runescape for quite a while (back when it was good, at least 4 years ago) and many people don't like that game either.
Still, all the negativity comes down to over-saturation of one type of MMO: the "WoW clone". Some people want something different, most people are vets who want to relive the good ol' days, and whoever else is negative are just trolls.
Originally posted by Sinviper Really cant be bothered typing so I'll just get to the point. MMORPG basically thinks that every MMO sucks. No one likes WoW and that all the MMO's coming out, like Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so. Is there actually an MMO that's coming out that is actually supposed to reveloutionise the genre?
Edit: Yes I know, I know all of wow's flaws having played it for 3 and a half years, don't bother listing them all.
Anyone who feels the need to tell you a MMO sucks should be told to give the title of the MMO which does not "suck". Along with telling which MMO they are currently playing.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Yes, I was reffering to the people that post on this site. So having just quit wow after 3 years I have nothing to look forward to.
Great.
Well will you be interested in playing a game that feels and plays similar to WoW but looks different? There are plenty of those coming out. So if that's your cup of tea, then I think you'll be all set for a while.
As far as anything revolutionary goes, I think that these designers need to throw away the usual formula and think about how to make a game fun using 1000 players. How can they make the game world more dynamic based on the actual player's decisions. Let the players change the world. The problem with games like WoW is that the game world is static. The designers of these games need to start thinking in terms of the player's actions and how to generate change based on them. They're designing these games from the wrong angle. They create the stories and outcomes based on the Non Players in the world and not the real player characters.
EVE is like that. The PvE in EVE sucks, pretty much everything is player driven.
I just wish the game was more balanced and wasn't a huge timesink.
I suppose that's one of the reasons it has been around so long and has a huge player base. Anyhow, my idea of having the players create the story and change the world is much different from how Eve handles it. I want a reason to play other than randomly killing things for loot and increasing my level. When I set foot into the gameworld, I want to instantly feel like a different person. I want things like fear, passion, love, hate, etc, etc, to be a huge part of the game. And all of those feelings and emotions are somehow linked to other players in the world. When they create a game like that, let me know. But if they keep going with the current formula, it wil never happen.
I used to be a full member, but my mmo dissatisfaction has been in full remission since the last time I resubbed to WoW. I think I finally got some perspective on the situation.
Grymm MMO addict in recovery! EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH, Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Actually you are correct. At this time, all MMOs are not good. Either they were good and expansion after expansion has ruined them or they never were good.
Really cant be bothered typing so I'll just get to the point. MMORPG basically thinks that every MMO sucks. No one likes WoW and that all the MMO's coming out, like Swtor and Aion will be good for a while but become boring after a year or so. Is there actually an MMO that's coming out that is actually supposed to reveloutionise the genre?
Edit: Yes I know, I know all of wow's flaws having played it for 3 and a half years, don't bother listing them all.
The latest old news is; "Everyone is a critic!"
I do it myself, it's hard to resist dishing out ones own opinion in a matter. For me getting hooked on a game is not only how the game works but also how the community is. As one of the prior posters said. You can´t really make a pure judgement of a game within 15 mins of gameplay. As in WOW for example. If u dont have a lvl 80 and never raided before You missed out one of the major parts of the game. Same thing with PvP... battlegrounds and arenas is a whole other part of the game.
My personal critic for most MMO's out there today is lack of content. The holy grail. SWG it was the path to jedi most hardcore gamers sought. No matter how long it was.
Most MMO's is nothing but an endless, mindnumbing grind. Ironically SWG jedi WAS the mother of all grind ingame. BUT the quests unlocking those parts of the game. Spanning over a year total. The feeling of completing a task like that is still to the day the best ever in any gaming history.
As a personal favorite a good MMO is part; combat, community, virtual living, economics, exploration and fun. All mixed together and put a holy grail on top and u got me hooked.
I know I sound like a broken record but again in SWG preCU we had theese rare jedi running around as "a holy grail". Theese powerplayers that worked their butt off to get em. Yes, they where overpowered and why not.. they earned it. In PvP you could just team up and roll on high on them.
Today in most MMO's if you got the right contacts, friends, guildies. Every newbie can get the endgame items, skills and whatnot. Everyone is a clone of a clone.
I prefer when everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.
Still, all the negativity comes down to over-saturation of one type of MMO: the "WoW clone". Some people want something different, most people are vets who want to relive the good ol' days, and whoever else is negative are just trolls.
Yes, people want something different. *I* want something different. I just recognize why we're not likely to see anything different any time soon and while I'm not happy about it, I'm not going to cry about it either, it's simply the way the system works. He who makes the game that appeals to the widest possible audience makes all the money. That's capitalism. Game development, especially today, simply doesn't allow for appealing to a niche market, it's too expensive, there are too many people who demand instant profits, even at the cost of long-term viability, etc. None of us like it, all of us wish it was different, but we can't wave our magic wands and just make it so, the fundamental marketplace needs to change, all of those WoW noobs have to actually get some taste and demand more from the games they pay for.
Until that happens, the people who post here have to realize that they're the tiniest minority of the marketplace and they simply don't mean squat to the developers, nor should they until they convince the players that there is a better way.
It's not so much the people on here saying that every mmorpg sucks it's the fact that there has been no good mmorpgs since WoW so in face all new mmorpgs suck. That said everyone here is looking for that true gem to come some time in the future where our mmorpg prayers could be answered.
Comments
How long do you expect you should be able to play a game before something new sounds refreshing? If I get a year out of Aion I'll be happy and it will have been a great purchase.
Exactly, because today with all these failed releases people are playing an MMO for like a couple of weeks to a month.
I can remember when mmorpgs could last a person years. But that was before "casual player commercialization" took over the genre. Personally, I'm starting to wish the mmorpg genre would collapse and fail, so the casuals can go back to their nintendos and we "geeks" can have our worlds back.
Utter truth. Agreed.
FTW. I agree too.
That's not fair... to anyone.
Look, game trademark depends on demand of the market. Without this "commercialization", there would not be such variety in the MMO industry that we see today. Of course, there wouldn't be many games that have the same feel or look either, but that's besides the point. I prefer to see variety, and more importantly, competition. It challenges developers to step up and marketers to focus on players. In that aspect, power to the gamers.
Secondly, casual gamers have just as much to gain from MMOs than the elite "geeks". Before MMOs, we were all just stuck in front of our TV (or computer) screens, in typical geek mode, waiting for the credits to roll before letting that particular game collect dust (until we remember it again). With the advent of MMOs, we are taken out of that mode. Not only can we beat the tar out of monsters, but now we can take down mobs we wouldn't be able to solo or take out each other in high competition mode. We don't see rolling credits at the end of the game, because there's always something more to do.
I have great respect for the elite gamers that truly champion the game. You are the ones that people look up to, to take leadership positions (in groups, raids, and/or guilds). If I were that kind of player, I would relish in the glory and not lose faith in the lack of expertise by the casual players, because they contribute to the gaming experience too (whether it be positive or negative).
And it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest.
What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? "I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.".
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
So whether I sound fair to you or not, my point still stands. There won't be any good games like our old games until either the casuals pick up their ball and go home, or devs make games for the pleasure of making games like they used to; with profit being a pleasing side effect rather than the sole driving force.
I pretty much agree but you lost me there at the end. In the real world its all about the money. Try going to your bank and telling them you want to borrow money for project X and tell them it wont make any money but it would be fun.
Why wouldn't it make any money? Oh, that's right. Because a game is only successful with millions of subs rather than a couple hundred thousand.
And that's not a jab at you but at the moronic devs who believe that crap. Even Darkfall, as much of a failure as it was known to be long before it released, managed to get funding.
Once again i agree. I f ind it funny that a game like LOTRO, EQ2 and others are considered a failure becasue it doesnt have the sub numbers as WOW but having said that, greed is a powerful entity and it seems to be the controlling factor.
The first rule of Internet forums, especially popular ones, is that someone will hate everything
If you like MMOs there are plenty of games coming and out there that will fit your individual play style, just takes some time to ID them.
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Once again i agree. I f ind it funny that a game like LOTRO, EQ2 and others are considered a failure becasue it doesnt have the sub numbers as WOW but having said that, greed is a powerful entity and it seems to be the controlling factor.
I would like to clarify...
"... it was the "casual" gamers who demanded our games be changed to suit themselves. And it's been the "casual" gamer who has used their numbers to make sure every new game since been tailored for their interest."
I did not claim nor will claim that developers tailoring to casual gamers is a good or a bad thing. I merely called out on this trend, and hence the many so labeled "WoW clones". It is true that the market is very much money driven, but that's not such a bad thing. Like I said before, with many games out there competing for fan base, it would ultimately lead to better games for everyone to suit their gaming desires.
"What do I see on every forum for every new mmo that gets announsced? 'I only have an hour to play and I want what the guy who has 10 hours to play has since I pay the same money.'"
I frown upon those players who want the results but don't want to put in the work. The fun in the game should be in the process of playing it, not in showing off amount of exp/money "bought" and gear. It's quite frustrating dealing with gold farmers. But I like said about supply and demand, as long as there are people willing to pay for this, the situation won't improve.
Casual players for the most part do not, and will not, accept that a game can be made NOT FOR THEM. Instead, they demand the game be fitted and changed FOR THEM. And because the devs see all that "casual" money floating out there, they oblige.
I don't see how you can verify this information, but I do have a valid comment. A majority of people don't handle change very well; they want what feel comfortable, and for many, this would be the easy "casual" gamer version. This is an unfortunate phenomenon. The only solution I see is for the developers to stand their ground, and "force" gamers to adapt to the game as it was meant to be played. I came across this very situation earlier in a thread about Aion, in how some people were disillusioned by the fact the game has "forced PvP". Someone wrote that the players should try the game as the developers intended, and if they don't like, play some other game.
"Why wouldn't it make any money? Oh, that's right. Because a game is only successful with millions of subs rather than a couple hundred thousand."
Sad but true.
The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
truth is, that for vet players its just same shit different color, whatever devs bring out.
Vanguard, wh, conan..
Buggy swg... then broken swg..
All mmos are now just sucky, its same shit with WoW being around every corner, you forget about the small stuff, when its half empty servers, or givin ya a feelin of single palyer, ye get the idea "wtf i am wastin time here for.." and Bah.
I dont remember playing anything from the point vanguard came out and so on for more than a month.
Only eve, cause ya can grind with just paying, and not doing anything.
Anyway, im myself just tired, i played it all, saw it all. Ultima would still beat most other games for the sake of possibitilies. But doh, you can raise all skills in a macro there now, its lost its feelin, numbed, dulled, blunt.
Anyway, just go work or something
The biggest problem with people posting their thoughts on games here is that they usually complain about one or two things in an MMO that breaks it for them, but not everything else.
For instance, I'm a WoW quitter. I got an 80 Shammy and 80 Warrior. I know the game pretty well, know my classes pretty well, can successfully raid and PvP with both (I'm not on a ladder or anything, but I can hold my own). So why did I quit? Well, 3 years of the same stuff gets a little old. Especially playing my shammy where my attack chain is FS, LvB, LB, LB, LB, LvB, LB, LB, LB, FS, LVB, LB, LB, LB, etc etc etc... It's really a great game. How can I play it for 3 years and say it's a bad game? It was obviously very good! But just because someone else says, "WoW's economy is broken," or "WoW's PvP is broken," or "WoW's Shamans are broken," etc doesn't mean it's bad at all.
The only way to know if a game is bad or not is to try it out. The problem with this is obviously a trial that either limits you to a level cap or an amount of time. But it's still better to try a trial, see if you're even interested in a game, and then give it a shot. I just downloaded the Age of Conan trial to see how I like it, and I'm hoping to be pleased, but we'll see.
Good luck on your search for a different game. If I were you, the first thing I would do is decide what aspect of the MMO is most important to you, such as combat, crafting, story, raiding, etc, and go from there to decide what to try out.
"Imagination and fiction make up more than three quarters of our real life."
Simone Weil
Well will you be interested in playing a game that feels and plays similar to WoW but looks different? There are plenty of those coming out. So if that's your cup of tea, then I think you'll be all set for a while.
As far as anything revolutionary goes, I think that these designers need to throw away the usual formula and think about how to make a game fun using 1000 players. How can they make the game world more dynamic based on the actual player's decisions. Let the players change the world. The problem with games like WoW is that the game world is static. The designers of these games need to start thinking in terms of the player's actions and how to generate change based on them. They're designing these games from the wrong angle. They create the stories and outcomes based on the Non Players in the world and not the real player characters.
Well will you be interested in playing a game that feels and plays similar to WoW but looks different? There are plenty of those coming out. So if that's your cup of tea, then I think you'll be all set for a while.
As far as anything revolutionary goes, I think that these designers need to throw away the usual formula and think about how to make a game fun using 1000 players. How can they make the game world more dynamic based on the actual player's decisions. Let the players change the world. The problem with games like WoW is that the game world is static. The designers of these games need to start thinking in terms of the player's actions and how to generate change based on them. They're designing these games from the wrong angle. They create the stories and outcomes based on the Non Players in the world and not the real player characters.
EVE is like that. The PvE in EVE sucks, pretty much everything is player driven.
I just wish the game was more balanced and wasn't a huge timesink.
There are some games in the distant future that are "out of the box" thinking. So dont give up hope yet. World of Darkness and Earthrise comes to mind.
Played : WOW, LOTRO, COH/COV, EQ2, SWG, and WAR.
Playing EVE Online and AOC.
Wtg for SW:TOR and WOD
You forgot the most common:
3. "I've never played it, but I heard from someone online that it sucked so I'm going to post that it sucks too!"
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Like it or not, it's the casual gamers who bring almost all of the money to the MMO marketplace. They are the biggest chunk of the pie out there and without them, MMOs as we know them today simply wouldn't exist. You'd still have a few small games that can attract a few thousand people, but those would be few and far between.
The casual gamer hasn't demanded that devs make games that appealed to them, it's the devs who recognized that without the casual gamers, their games would go bankrupt and tailored their games to the casual player. The hardcore player is entirely irrelevant, there just aren't enough of them, if they all vanished tomorrow, the MMO market would continue entirely unaffected.
Some people need to learn basic economics. He who has the money, makes the rules. All the money is in the hands of the casual gamers.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
Like it or not, it's the casual gamers who bring almost all of the money to the MMO marketplace. They are the biggest chunk of the pie out there and without them, MMOs as we know them today simply wouldn't exist. You'd still have a few small games that can attract a few thousand people, but those would be few and far between.
The casual gamer hasn't demanded that devs make games that appealed to them, it's the devs who recognized that without the casual gamers, their games would go bankrupt and tailored their games to the casual player. The hardcore player is entirely irrelevant, there just aren't enough of them, if they all vanished tomorrow, the MMO market would continue entirely unaffected.
Some people need to learn basic economics. He who has the money, makes the rules. All the money is in the hands of the casual gamers.
While Zorvan's one of the intelligent posters here, that I've noticed, I have to refer to my post earlier in this thread.
You're right, Cephus, and it's one of the reasons why so much hope is being placed in some of these indy developers. Look at Darkfall. With a larger company, you know they're in it for the money, which means they will try to attract casuals over hardcores and they'll build off of the WoW model. But with an indy developer, there's a sense of "they're gamers too; they're not money hungry bastards. They know what we want, what we miss, and they seem to be making a game that they themselves enjoy - whether it has a million subs or not."
CCP was an indy company who did things right - Aventurine is the opposite. I know though that plenty of hope was put in Aventurine, and plenty of slack was given to them (wrongly) because they were an indy company. They should've been prepared to compete in the "brutal" market, and no slack should be given.
Yet there are people playing Darkfall, since it's kind of a "homemade" product rather than the mass-produced MMOs by larger companies. Even with all the bugs and crap, they still manage to have fun one way or another.
I suppose I can understand that. I enjoyed Runescape for quite a while (back when it was good, at least 4 years ago) and many people don't like that game either.
Still, all the negativity comes down to over-saturation of one type of MMO: the "WoW clone". Some people want something different, most people are vets who want to relive the good ol' days, and whoever else is negative are just trolls.
Anyone who feels the need to tell you a MMO sucks should be told to give the title of the MMO which does not "suck". Along with telling which MMO they are currently playing.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Well will you be interested in playing a game that feels and plays similar to WoW but looks different? There are plenty of those coming out. So if that's your cup of tea, then I think you'll be all set for a while.
As far as anything revolutionary goes, I think that these designers need to throw away the usual formula and think about how to make a game fun using 1000 players. How can they make the game world more dynamic based on the actual player's decisions. Let the players change the world. The problem with games like WoW is that the game world is static. The designers of these games need to start thinking in terms of the player's actions and how to generate change based on them. They're designing these games from the wrong angle. They create the stories and outcomes based on the Non Players in the world and not the real player characters.
EVE is like that. The PvE in EVE sucks, pretty much everything is player driven.
I just wish the game was more balanced and wasn't a huge timesink.
I suppose that's one of the reasons it has been around so long and has a huge player base.
Anyhow, my idea of having the players create the story and change the world is much different from how Eve handles it. I want a reason to play other than randomly killing things for loot and increasing my level. When I set foot into the gameworld, I want to instantly feel like a different person. I want things like fear, passion, love, hate, etc, etc, to be a huge part of the game. And all of those feelings and emotions are somehow linked to other players in the world. When they create a game like that, let me know. But if they keep going with the current formula, it wil never happen.
this site should be called www.disgruntledMMORPGplayers.com
hehe
I used to be a full member, but my mmo dissatisfaction has been in full remission since the last time I resubbed to WoW. I think I finally got some perspective on the situation.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games are dead.
Now you have Crappy Massive Multiplayer Online Games.
Actually you are correct. At this time, all MMOs are not good. Either they were good and expansion after expansion has ruined them or they never were good.
The latest old news is; "Everyone is a critic!"
I do it myself, it's hard to resist dishing out ones own opinion in a matter. For me getting hooked on a game is not only how the game works but also how the community is. As one of the prior posters said. You can´t really make a pure judgement of a game within 15 mins of gameplay. As in WOW for example. If u dont have a lvl 80 and never raided before You missed out one of the major parts of the game. Same thing with PvP... battlegrounds and arenas is a whole other part of the game.
My personal critic for most MMO's out there today is lack of content. The holy grail. SWG it was the path to jedi most hardcore gamers sought. No matter how long it was.
Most MMO's is nothing but an endless, mindnumbing grind. Ironically SWG jedi WAS the mother of all grind ingame. BUT the quests unlocking those parts of the game. Spanning over a year total. The feeling of completing a task like that is still to the day the best ever in any gaming history.
As a personal favorite a good MMO is part; combat, community, virtual living, economics, exploration and fun. All mixed together and put a holy grail on top and u got me hooked.
I know I sound like a broken record but again in SWG preCU we had theese rare jedi running around as "a holy grail". Theese powerplayers that worked their butt off to get em. Yes, they where overpowered and why not.. they earned it. In PvP you could just team up and roll on high on them.
Today in most MMO's if you got the right contacts, friends, guildies. Every newbie can get the endgame items, skills and whatnot. Everyone is a clone of a clone.
I prefer when everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others.
Wumi - SWG - Bloodfin - Cancelled
Wumi - WoW - Eu-Kazzak - Cancelled
Bulldozer - Aion - Eu-Kahrun - Cancelled
Wumi - Rift - EU-Riptalon - Cancelled
Average MMORPG.com poster
Everything does suck. Everything, even the earth. Gravity is a myth.
Yes, people want something different. *I* want something different. I just recognize why we're not likely to see anything different any time soon and while I'm not happy about it, I'm not going to cry about it either, it's simply the way the system works. He who makes the game that appeals to the widest possible audience makes all the money. That's capitalism. Game development, especially today, simply doesn't allow for appealing to a niche market, it's too expensive, there are too many people who demand instant profits, even at the cost of long-term viability, etc. None of us like it, all of us wish it was different, but we can't wave our magic wands and just make it so, the fundamental marketplace needs to change, all of those WoW noobs have to actually get some taste and demand more from the games they pay for.
Until that happens, the people who post here have to realize that they're the tiniest minority of the marketplace and they simply don't mean squat to the developers, nor should they until they convince the players that there is a better way.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
every mmorpg does suck
It's not so much the people on here saying that every mmorpg sucks it's the fact that there has been no good mmorpgs since WoW so in face all new mmorpgs suck. That said everyone here is looking for that true gem to come some time in the future where our mmorpg prayers could be answered.