And I think the consumer should be entitled to as much information as possible and I think the official website fails to deliver it. I do not believe that the consumer should have to go to multiple websites and ask questions. I think it is the responsibility of the company to deliver as much information as possible. I do inform myself every chance I get. I use as many websites, magazines, etc.......as I can to make an informed decision. However I do not think it is the responsibility of a 3rd party to inform of stuff that should be official. And we are talking about a major design feature here. We are not talking about an obscure thing - we are talking about a major design feature that effects the entire game and how you play the game. But we come back to that fact that how much is enough? How much information is enough? For you, it seems we should know everything about everything and unless you know every detail, you are making a poor decision. For me, there is a point where the consumer has done enough and the responsibility is back to the company (the opposite is true as well). On this issue, I am simply stating, I looked at several places. Around the time of the first beta weekend, I read the forums here and other places. I checked the official website. I read stuff about the Rifts but it wasn't what I expected it to be in its final interpretation. I thought it would be in PVP zones - in other words, Rifts would allows access to certain parts of the Abyss (like certain keeps in DAOC). it wasn't until a lot of poeple got higher than level 20 and began to discuss Rfits and how they work that I realized they opened up in the regular leveling zones. At that moment, I, like others, had already pre-ordered. I hope that makes more sense. EDIT: Yes, I agree with you. That is a lot of PVP stuff and it sounds great. It does remind me alot of Lineage 2 (I played for a short time). However, I was under the impression that the leveling zones specifically would be PVP free. PVP would be confined to place that were not the leveling zones. I have no problem with PVP at all.....I love it and grew up on it (DAOC as I mentioned) but I like PVP on my terms and not the game's terms. So when I found out that Rift's opened in the PVE leveling areas, it simply isn't the game for me.
Well, the problem here is that companies are not under any legal or honestly any ethical obligations to present that much information in such a fashion. Every product out there provides a list of features, small blurbs about those features that may or may not be vague and that's it. Every product, whether it's an ipod, a remote control, a ps3, car or whatever. That's how every single official game wesbite works, for the most part.
You get a list of features, maybe another few paragraphs on those features through links and that's it. In-depth details on products have ALWAYS come from additional sources. I do see a major difference here though, I have been following this game to some degree since I first heard about it like two years ago. Maybe once a month I'd check out Aionsource for new info, hell that's how I got the guide on how to get onto the CH version like three months ago.
If you don't like the way the pvp is set up then that's still cool, I respect that. I'm used to having action all over the place. Kinda why I'm hoping Mortal Online will be good ^_^, though I pre-ordered Aion since my clan has decided to go there for sure. So I'll make a merc squad out of a few of us if Mortal turns out alright and just play both. 30 bucks a month is still gonna be cheaper than a single night of drinking, best fun to cost ratio out there IMO. Except maybe when you have a gf that will jump you over a cute little five dollar random hello kitty thing, hehe. ^_^
Originally posted by odinsassassi So just to be clear you comparing fast food to software selling software WTF well to use your example try this you order combo number 1 say its the big mac combo burger fries and a drink and what they actually give you is 6 individual fries and say see ya in 2 months for the rest of your order. Than doesnt make sens but ya still pay full price. I agree buyer beware OP had other options. Doesnt excuse the one option being "odd" to me. You should be able to get a refund as long as you dont use the product. In this case the full version of the game.
The concept of all sales final is not new, to anyone and shouldn't be new to the gammer. If you purchased the full game in a store (note not a preorder package), opened it for the beta key, then wanted to take it back, you'd get the same thing as buying it from the NCSoft store. You were buying the game, they added the key to the account. It said non-refundable. To trully have a problem with this, you've either had to live a sheltered life, or be a kid.
All sales final, is a standard business practice, has been for many years.
Also, just so you know, I did read the FAQ here in this thread: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/241712/The-ULTIMATE-Aion-FAQ-Updated-7509-Version-15-Patch-Notes.html I wanted to quote parts of it: "PvP-specific skills will be available for usage around level 40. The player can, however, still choose not to participate in PvP unless he/she wants to. (Possible Rumor)" "For players who don't enjoy PvP, there will be various PvE activities to take part in such as raids, instanced dungeons and so on ? All connected to the great war. An example would be PvE players collecting items for big siege weapons to support their faction." "Rifts are also possible routes to PvP, providing a gateway between the Asmodian and Elyos homelands." "You can PVP in the Abyss and there will be some zones outside the Abyss where the Elyos and Asmodians will be able to interact." ------ The emphasis on that last quote is mine. I figured it meant PVP zones but it basically means "all but the newbie area" and cities I believe. Again, I did my research and read a lot....it was just hard to find the info to be clear and exact.
Well that's the fault of whoever posted that faq hehe. I'm pretty sure someone here on mmorpg.com makes all those entries, so if they did they should probably correct that. That FAQ right there uses extremely vague and confused language. Makes it sound like WAR to be honest. I never read that faq.....though to be honest I rarely read info that is posted on here like that lol.
Originally posted by odinsassassi So just to be clear you comparing fast food to software selling software WTF well to use your example try this you order combo number 1 say its the big mac combo burger fries and a drink and what they actually give you is 6 individual fries and say see ya in 2 months for the rest of your order. Than doesnt make sens but ya still pay full price. I agree buyer beware OP had other options. Doesnt excuse the one option being "odd" to me. You should be able to get a refund as long as you dont use the product. In this case the full version of the game.
The concept of all sales final is not new, to anyone and shouldn't be new to the gammer. If you purchased the full game in a store (note not a preorder package), opened it for the beta key, then wanted to take it back, you'd get the same thing as buying it from the NCSoft store. You were buying the game, they added the key to the account. It said non-refundable. To trully have a problem with this, you've either had to live a sheltered life, or be a kid.
All sales final, is a standard business practice, has been for many years.
Yar! Here here sirrah! Been a standard business practice for a very, VERY long time. Before the days of automobiles old......probably.
The Columbia record club is like the most notorious old reference to shady business. "Free stuff!" with ten pages of complex fine print they know no one is going to read. Twenty years later you finally get out of your contract...lol. Annnnyway.
Originally posted by odinsassassi So just to be clear you comparing fast food to software selling software WTF well to use your example try this you order combo number 1 say its the big mac combo burger fries and a drink and what they actually give you is 6 individual fries and say see ya in 2 months for the rest of your order. Than doesnt make sens but ya still pay full price. I agree buyer beware OP had other options. Doesnt excuse the one option being "odd" to me. You should be able to get a refund as long as you dont use the product. In this case the full version of the game.
The concept of all sales final is not new, to anyone and shouldn't be new to the gammer. If you purchased the full game in a store (note not a preorder package), opened it for the beta key, then wanted to take it back, you'd get the same thing as buying it from the NCSoft store. You were buying the game, they added the key to the account. It said non-refundable. To trully have a problem with this, you've either had to live a sheltered life, or be a kid.
All sales final, is a standard business practice, has been for many years.
Yep all sales are final i agree but the point im trying to make that seems to elude so many people is ( and i really dont care one way or another in just discussing the issue is) shouldn't you receive the full product in order to be charged for the full product
Mortal Online does look great, I just am not at a point in my life where is viable for me to play it. I mean PVP for me isn't a big deal, if and when I have the time, but I don't anymore. And I came late to news about Aion. I first heard is was PVP only but the more I read, it seemed like there was going to be a lot of PVE elements above and PVP could be avoided. However, now, its seems the opposite. And for me, it was a little frustrating and I do feel betrayed because I hated the idea of the game, then LOVED it, then hate it again. And its nothing against the game, I just wish the info was clearer. Hope that makes sense. EDIT: Exaclt, makes it sound like WAR which sounded like DAOC - my first MMO love and I was hoping Aion would recapture that. But, I don't think it will.
Yeah, which is also funny because WAR also ended up being nothing like DAOC lol. Double burned.
Mmmm, I dunno about time though. Aion is set up, more or less, to be about the journey rather than the destination. PvP does actually do something for you and your side too, so it's not wasted effort. You can use abyss points to get gear and then there's the sieges and fun stuff ^_^. At this point you have all your pre-order stuff coming anyway...37 days of play time...other fun stuff...might as well use em, ne? ^_^
You might find you like it in the end. An hour of fun is an hour of fun, learned that a long time ago. Even if that means my xp bar doesn't move much.
Yep all sales are final i agree but the point im trying to make that seems to elude so many people is ( and i really dont care one way or another in just discussing the issue is) shouldn't you receive the full product in order to be charged for the full product
You do. Just not at the time of purchase. When you pre-purchase a game you aren't charged that price until the game releases.
Because if you were then their entire accounting department would have to put a debit out to each individual stating that they are owed the promised product. This is reflected by a credit in your favor of 49.99, basically the company owes you 49.99, a debt. Let's say a company amasses a million pre-orders for something, so...49.99 x 1M.....that's a lot of extra debt to have on your books.
Plus there are laws that prevent them from doing this. So, when the game actually releases you're charged and then given the promised product. In other words they haven't taken your money yet and if they do and don't give you the promised product they will face fines, civil cases and possibly jail time.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, all of the above is taken from self-taught material and stuff I've learned. ^_^
Yep all sales are final i agree but the point im trying to make that seems to elude so many people is ( and i really dont care one way or another in just discussing the issue is) shouldn't you receive the full product in order to be charged for the full product
You do. Just not at the time of purchase. When you pre-purchase a game you aren't charged that price until the game releases.
Because if you were then their entire accounting department would have to put a debit out to each individual stating that they are owed the promised product. This is reflected by a credit in your favor of 49.99, basically the company owes you 49.99, a debt. Let's say a company amasses a million pre-orders for something, so...49.99 x 1M.....that's a lot of extra debt to have on your books.
Plus there are laws that prevent them from doing this. So, when the game actually releases you're charged and then given the promised product. In other words they haven't taken your money yet and if they do and don't give you the promised product they will face fines, civil cases and possibly jail time.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, all of the above is taken from self-taught material and stuff I've learned. ^_^
Makes perfect sense but wouldnt there be some sort of terminology that would allow you to change your mind before said charge is applied they cant really force you to buy the product if you dont want it can they if if at the time you though they did
You do. Just not at the time of purchase. When you pre-purchase a game you aren't charged that price until the game releases. Because if you were then their entire accounting department would have to put a debit out to each individual stating that they are owed the promised product. This is reflected by a credit in your favor of 49.99, basically the company owes you 49.99, a debt. Let's say a company amasses a million pre-orders for something, so...49.99 x 1M.....that's a lot of extra debt to have on your books. Plus there are laws that prevent them from doing this. So, when the game actually releases you're charged and then given the promised product. In other words they haven't taken your money yet and if they do and don't give you the promised product they will face fines, civil cases and possibly jail time. Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, all of the above is taken from self-taught material and stuff I've learned. ^_^
Makes perfect sense but wouldnt there be some sort of terminology that would allow you to change your mind before said charge is applied they cant really force you to buy the product if you dont want it can they if if at the time you though they did
No. If there is an agreement that you either seperately are automatically enter into upon purchase that what you're doing is non-refundable then there isn't anything you can do. You have laws on your side if they try to take your money and give you nothing in return though.
You do. Just not at the time of purchase. When you pre-purchase a game you aren't charged that price until the game releases. Because if you were then their entire accounting department would have to put a debit out to each individual stating that they are owed the promised product. This is reflected by a credit in your favor of 49.99, basically the company owes you 49.99, a debt. Let's say a company amasses a million pre-orders for something, so...49.99 x 1M.....that's a lot of extra debt to have on your books. Plus there are laws that prevent them from doing this. So, when the game actually releases you're charged and then given the promised product. In other words they haven't taken your money yet and if they do and don't give you the promised product they will face fines, civil cases and possibly jail time. Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, all of the above is taken from self-taught material and stuff I've learned. ^_^
Makes perfect sense but wouldnt there be some sort of terminology that would allow you to change your mind before said charge is applied they cant really force you to buy the product if you dont want it can they if if at the time you though they did
No. If there is an agreement that you either seperately are automatically enter into upon purchase that what you're doing is non-refundable then there isn't anything you can do. You have laws on your side if they try to take your money and give you nothing in return though.
So basically once you click that button so to speak your takuing there product on release day wether you want it or not. Kinda sucks but that god i didnt buy from ncsoft can move my pre order to something more to my tastes like modern warfare 2
No. If there is an agreement that you either seperately are automatically enter into upon purchase that what you're doing is non-refundable then there isn't anything you can do. You have laws on your side if they try to take your money and give you nothing in return though.
So basically once you click that button so to speak your takuing there product on release day wether you want it or not. Kinda sucks but that god i didnt buy from ncsoft can move my pre order to something more to my tastes like modern warfare 2
Basically, yeah. It's not like it's the only way to pre-order though, as you said yourself. I only pre-purchase stuff I'm certain I'm going to enjoy. So right now I have Aion fully downloaded, won't have to go to a store or anything on release day. ^_^
I checked on their help section on their website but cant find anything.
Short of me calling my credit card company is there an easier way to cancel this game? It's nice but frankly i dont need another WoW.
Thanks for the help, if any.
I canceled my Pre order as well...they killed force PVP, and Care Beared the Rift system so it is nearly impossible to gank. If I wanted a safe no risk game I would play hello kitty Island adventure.
No. If there is an agreement that you either seperately are automatically enter into upon purchase that what you're doing is non-refundable then there isn't anything you can do. You have laws on your side if they try to take your money and give you nothing in return though.
So basically once you click that button so to speak your takuing there product on release day wether you want it or not. Kinda sucks but that god i didnt buy from ncsoft can move my pre order to something more to my tastes like modern warfare 2
Basically, yeah. It's not like it's the only way to pre-order though, as you said yourself. I only pre-purchase stuff I'm certain I'm going to enjoy. So right now I have Aion fully downloaded, won't have to go to a store or anything on release day. ^_^
I myself am gonna pass on this one. Like i said not gonna sit here and bash the game or anything just not for me. Im more of a raiding questing kinda player not big on PVP play. But i would like to thank you for you explanations enjoy
I canceled my Pre order as well...they killed force PVP, and Care Beared the Rift system so it is nearly impossible to gank. If I wanted a safe no risk game I would play hello kitty Island adventure.
Ahh poor guy cant grind his way to max level in a week and "gank" people 10 or more levels below him to boost his e-peen ego.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
So just to be clear you comparing fast food to software selling software WTF well to use your example try this you order combo number 1 say its the big mac combo burger fries and a drink and what they actually give you is 6 individual fries and say see ya in 2 months for the rest of your order. Than doesnt make sens but ya still pay full price. I agree buyer beware OP had other options. Doesnt excuse the one option being "odd" to me. You should be able to get a refund as long as you dont use the product. In this case the full version of the game.
No, they don't give you six individual fries and then tell you to wait a month. They hand you a receipt, say "your order number is XX" and AT THAT MOMENT, even though you paid in full, THAT little slip of paper and their promise to make your order is all you have to show for the $6 you just spent. I know OP has to wait longer than it takes for them to slop up your grub at a fastfood joint, but I was pointing out that there are different ways to buy anything and it's not the business' fault for offering those options if people want to buy that way.
My comparison works because in one scenario, you pay, then eat. In the other, you eat, then pay. You seem to think if a person paid in full, that means they should have the full game. I'm saying that this model is like paying in full, and then waiting until your order is ready. Sure, you wait a longer amount of time, but YOU are the one deciding to buy the product that way. YOU are the one going to a place that charges you in that fashion. YOU are the one who can go to a sit-down restaurant just as easily (amazon, gamestop, bestbuy = preorder), but for some reason YOU are walking into a McDonald's and shouting "THEY ARE SHADY BECAUSE THEY MAKE YOU PAY UP FRONT HERE!!!"
So, while my comparison might be broken when using perfect logic when looking at it, it still stands that NCSoft is not in the wrong here, not for tricking the consumer or "shady business practices" because they were completely upfront that he was paying now for the FULL product even though he would have to wait. You act like they are focing him to buy from them.
My point is that some vendors sell the game one way, another might sell it a different way. Siding with the OP here is crazy and calling NCSoft "shady" is unfounded. I'm just pointing out that they aren't some diabolical company tricking people and using an unheard of business practice.
Because they sell the game as a prepurchase, are very upfront about what that means, and don't hold a gun to your head and force you to buy the game that way if you don't want to = shady?
If you don't care about your NCsoft master account you can probably sell the account on ebay after release.
Or just play it for your 37 included days since they're already giving them to you and have whatever fun there is to be had. Might find you like it.
It's like anything in life really. I used to HATE shrimp, like I tried it many times and never liked it. Then a few years ago I tried some popcorn shrimp and loved them, now I love shrimp in all it's forms. I tried something new to me even though I thought I wasn't going to like and ended up liking a lot more stuff.
Same goes for me and PvP, though it's a much older story. My first game was DAOC then I heard about Lineage 2 and was like, "Oh! That doesn't sound like fun! People can kill you anywhere and you can drop stuff? mmm....I dunno." but some buddies of my twisted my arm. Two years after that (from prelude) I was hooked, sure there was a lot of drama, but those are THE most memorable moments I have while gaming, ever. I loved DAOC more all in all, but I still don't have as many fantastic and memorable stories. So I guess what I'm saying is.....
So just to be clear you comparing fast food to software selling software WTF well to use your example try this you order combo number 1 say its the big mac combo burger fries and a drink and what they actually give you is 6 individual fries and say see ya in 2 months for the rest of your order. Than doesnt make sens but ya still pay full price. I agree buyer beware OP had other options. Doesnt excuse the one option being "odd" to me. You should be able to get a refund as long as you dont use the product. In this case the full version of the game.
No, they don't give you six individual fries and then tell you to wait a month. They hand you a receipt, say "your order number is XX" and AT THAT MOMENT, even though you paid in full, THAT little slip of paper and their promise to make your order is all you have to show for the $6 you just spent. I know OP has to wait longer than it takes for them to slop up your grub at a fastfood joint, but I was pointing out that there are different ways to buy anything and it's not the business' fault for offering those options if people want to buy that way.
My comparison works because in one scenario, you pay, then eat. In the other, you eat, then pay. You seem to think if a person paid in full, that means they should have the full game. I'm saying that this model is like paying in full, and then waiting until your order is ready. Sure, you wait a longer amount of time, but YOU are the one deciding to buy the product that way. YOU are the one going to a place that charges you in that fashion. YOU are the one who can go to a sit-down restaurant just as easily (amazon, gamestop, bestbuy = preorder), but for some reason YOU are walking into a McDonald's and shouting "THEY ARE SHADY BECAUSE THEY MAKE YOU PAY UP FRONT HERE!!!"
So, while my comparison might be broken when using perfect logic when looking at it, it still stands that NCSoft is not in the wrong here, not for tricking the consumer or "shady business practices" because they were completely upfront that he was paying now for the FULL product even though he would have to wait. You act like they are focing him to buy from them.
My point is that some vendors sell the game one way, another might sell it a different way. Siding with the OP here is crazy and calling NCSoft "shady" is unfounded. I'm just pointing out that they aren't some diabolical company tricking people and using an unheard of business practice.
Because they sell the game as a prepurchase, are very upfront about what that means, and don't hold a gun to your head and force you to buy the game that way if you don't want to = shady?
In what world...?
Guess its just my opinion but i feel that any buisness not just NCSOFT shouldnt be aloud to do that. I just think that until you receive the final product you should always have a chance to change your mind. But alas the real world isnt like that. Its all about making a buck no matter what
i ve seen no reason to cancel my order having seen the beta . aions a great looking game plays smoothly thats all you can tell at such early levels no mmo really gets started untill you level up a bit . you really need to spend at least two weeks in an mmo to see what it has to offer . the only way i can say if i dislike a game in such early stages is if its graphics dont appeal to me , if its got a lot of bugs or if it does nt play well on my system.
These threads pop up all the time, and your going to get a phone book of responses on how you can't do this and you can't do that.
Fact of the matter is you can ALWAYS get your money back if you used a credit card. No ifs, and or buts, you can do a charge back.
Call your credit card company, and tell them you ordered a product that you no longer wish to receive, the support it not helpful and there is no other way to refund your money. Request a charge back and your CC company will do a charge back to NCSoft and viola case closed.
I have gotten my money back from EVERYTHING, from pre-orders, to even opened PC games from the store itself. Business is business, if you raise enough hell, people will give you anything you want.
So ignore the ones saying you are screwed, because you are not.
Doing that too often will damage your credit rating. You can't actually see the process but credit bureau do take noticed of such things ("doing a lot of charge backs"). It will come banging once you need a loan or mortgage in the future.
I canceled my Pre order as well...they killed force PVP, and Care Beared the Rift system so it is nearly impossible to gank. If I wanted a safe no risk game I would play hello kitty Island adventure.
Listen it isn't about NCSoft or the "non refund" message.
The OP said in the original post he does not wish to play another wow clone. A lot of you from what I am seeing are just Aion fans and are doing your blind zealotry again in regards to anyone trying to shy away from your game for any reason.
Listen OP, so NCSoft says no refunds, so what. That is why I told you to call the CC company and do a charge back.
You got a key dude, a digital 893758023705872348907089 nothing more. This is useless until the game goes live and you can actually use it for the final product.
You said you looked into getting NCSoft to help you on the support side. No help was found.
Call your CC company get the charge back done and case closed. DO what I said and tell them you purchased a product you have not recieved yet, and no longer wish to recieve. (which isn't telling a lie) Like some other poster tried to point the finger at me about previously. Get your money back.
You are the consumer and the customer,and last time I checked the customer is ALWAYS right, regardless of how lame brained your lack of reading skills are on a Gaming website like NCSoft.
15 pages of BS that is all this is. The OP asked how he gets his money back.
Step 1 - You try to contact NCSoft and request a refund on your money because you do not want the game.
If step 1 fails.
Step 2 - Call your CC company and tell them whatever in the hell you have to, just get your money back
This step won't fail.
It is your money at the end of the day, these other people didn't make it for you, they didn't earn it. If you want it back, then get it back, screw all these people telling you its wrong, unethical, your stupid or whatever it is they say.
Money is Money. It is yours to decide what you do with it.
This thread is really getting rediculous. Listen it isn't about NCSoft or the "non refund" message. The OP said in the original post he does not wish to play another wow clone. A lot of you from what I am seeing are just Aion fans and are doing your blind zealotry again in regards to anyone trying to shy away from your game for any reason.
Listen OP, so NCSoft says no refunds, so what. That is why I told you to call the CC company and do a charge back. You got a key dude, a digital 893758023705872348907089 nothing more. This is useless until the game goes live and you can actually use it for the final product. You said you looked into getting NCSoft to help you on the support side. No help was found. Call your CC company get the charge back done and case closed. DO what I said and tell them you purchased a product you have not recieved yet, and no longer wish to recieve. (which isn't telling a lie) Like some other poster tried to point the finger at me about previously. Get your money back. You are the consumer and the customer,and last time I checked the customer is ALWAYS right, regardless of how lame brained your lack of reading skills are on a Gaming website like NCSoft.
15 pages of BS that is all this is. The OP asked how he gets his money back. Step 1 - You try to contact NCSoft and request a refund on your money because you do not want the game. If step 1 fails. Step 2 - Call your CC company and tell them whatever in the hell you have to, just get your money back This step won't fail.
It is your money at the end of the day, these other people didn't make it for you, they didn't earn it. If you want it back, then get it back, screw all these people telling you its wrong, unethical, your stupid or whatever it is they say. Money is Money. It is yours to decide what you do with it.
As a small business owner, should a dishonest customer follow this shamelessly unethical piece of bad advice, I would probably seek a collection agency on them (only because the amount in question is relatively small - for more considerable sums I would probably attempt to plead my case with your CC company or outright sue you for breach of contract).
You entered into a contract when you accepted to pre-order without refund. When you breach a contract there can be consequences.
In the end, if you do not pay and the company decides to seek remedy to your actions, your credit history can end up being impacted.
As a small business owner, should a dishonest customer follow this shamelessly unethical piece of bad advice, I would probably seek a collection agency on them (only because the amount in question is relatively small - for more considerable sums I would probably attempt to plead my case with your CC company or outright sue you for breach of contract).
You entered into a contract when you accepted to pre-order without refund. When you breach a contract there can be consequences.
In the end, if you do not pay and the company decides to seek remedy to your actions, your credit history can end up being impacted.
Proceed with caution.
No kidding. This has nothing to do with liking or disliking the game it all, it has to do with suggesting cheap and underhanded tactics in order to get a "refund" on a game you already bought.
I don't care how large of a company NCSoft is, that's still just bad form. But I guess some people feel it's alright to screw a company just because. Pathetic.
If you really have no interest in playing the game than sell the account/keys to someone for a little cheaper than you bought it. You'll get at least some money back, someone will get the game for cheaper and you won't have to use underhanded tactics to get it back.
No kidding. This has nothing to do with liking or disliking the game it all, it has to do with suggesting cheap and underhanded tactics in order to get a "refund" on a game you already bought. I don't care how large of a company NCSoft is, that's still just bad form. But I guess some people feel it's alright to screw a company just because. Pathetic.
If you really have no interest in playing the game than sell the account/keys to someone for a little cheaper than you bought it. You'll get at least some money back, someone will get the game for cheaper and you won't have to use underhanded tactics to get it back.
Haha, I dont even know where to start with you.
"Just because"? People tried the game, didn't like it, and want their money back. They were not issued a piece of software, thus it's a simple matter of just cancelling the previously valid key. If they didn't want people trying out the game this way; they shouldn't have granted "beta" access to those preorder customers.
I don't really get what the big fuss is though, I ordered online, tried the beta; hated it and proceeded to cancel with absolutely no issue at all.
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Well, the problem here is that companies are not under any legal or honestly any ethical obligations to present that much information in such a fashion. Every product out there provides a list of features, small blurbs about those features that may or may not be vague and that's it. Every product, whether it's an ipod, a remote control, a ps3, car or whatever. That's how every single official game wesbite works, for the most part.
You get a list of features, maybe another few paragraphs on those features through links and that's it. In-depth details on products have ALWAYS come from additional sources. I do see a major difference here though, I have been following this game to some degree since I first heard about it like two years ago. Maybe once a month I'd check out Aionsource for new info, hell that's how I got the guide on how to get onto the CH version like three months ago.
If you don't like the way the pvp is set up then that's still cool, I respect that. I'm used to having action all over the place. Kinda why I'm hoping Mortal Online will be good ^_^, though I pre-ordered Aion since my clan has decided to go there for sure. So I'll make a merc squad out of a few of us if Mortal turns out alright and just play both. 30 bucks a month is still gonna be cheaper than a single night of drinking, best fun to cost ratio out there IMO. Except maybe when you have a gf that will jump you over a cute little five dollar random hello kitty thing, hehe. ^_^
The concept of all sales final is not new, to anyone and shouldn't be new to the gammer. If you purchased the full game in a store (note not a preorder package), opened it for the beta key, then wanted to take it back, you'd get the same thing as buying it from the NCSoft store. You were buying the game, they added the key to the account. It said non-refundable. To trully have a problem with this, you've either had to live a sheltered life, or be a kid.
All sales final, is a standard business practice, has been for many years.
Well that's the fault of whoever posted that faq hehe. I'm pretty sure someone here on mmorpg.com makes all those entries, so if they did they should probably correct that. That FAQ right there uses extremely vague and confused language. Makes it sound like WAR to be honest. I never read that faq.....though to be honest I rarely read info that is posted on here like that lol.
The concept of all sales final is not new, to anyone and shouldn't be new to the gammer. If you purchased the full game in a store (note not a preorder package), opened it for the beta key, then wanted to take it back, you'd get the same thing as buying it from the NCSoft store. You were buying the game, they added the key to the account. It said non-refundable. To trully have a problem with this, you've either had to live a sheltered life, or be a kid.
All sales final, is a standard business practice, has been for many years.
Yar! Here here sirrah! Been a standard business practice for a very, VERY long time. Before the days of automobiles old......probably.
The Columbia record club is like the most notorious old reference to shady business. "Free stuff!" with ten pages of complex fine print they know no one is going to read. Twenty years later you finally get out of your contract...lol. Annnnyway.
The concept of all sales final is not new, to anyone and shouldn't be new to the gammer. If you purchased the full game in a store (note not a preorder package), opened it for the beta key, then wanted to take it back, you'd get the same thing as buying it from the NCSoft store. You were buying the game, they added the key to the account. It said non-refundable. To trully have a problem with this, you've either had to live a sheltered life, or be a kid.
All sales final, is a standard business practice, has been for many years.
Yep all sales are final i agree but the point im trying to make that seems to elude so many people is ( and i really dont care one way or another in just discussing the issue is) shouldn't you receive the full product in order to be charged for the full product
Yeah, which is also funny because WAR also ended up being nothing like DAOC lol. Double burned.
Mmmm, I dunno about time though. Aion is set up, more or less, to be about the journey rather than the destination. PvP does actually do something for you and your side too, so it's not wasted effort. You can use abyss points to get gear and then there's the sieges and fun stuff ^_^. At this point you have all your pre-order stuff coming anyway...37 days of play time...other fun stuff...might as well use em, ne? ^_^
You might find you like it in the end. An hour of fun is an hour of fun, learned that a long time ago. Even if that means my xp bar doesn't move much.
You do. Just not at the time of purchase. When you pre-purchase a game you aren't charged that price until the game releases.
Because if you were then their entire accounting department would have to put a debit out to each individual stating that they are owed the promised product. This is reflected by a credit in your favor of 49.99, basically the company owes you 49.99, a debt. Let's say a company amasses a million pre-orders for something, so...49.99 x 1M.....that's a lot of extra debt to have on your books.
Plus there are laws that prevent them from doing this. So, when the game actually releases you're charged and then given the promised product. In other words they haven't taken your money yet and if they do and don't give you the promised product they will face fines, civil cases and possibly jail time.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, all of the above is taken from self-taught material and stuff I've learned. ^_^
You do. Just not at the time of purchase. When you pre-purchase a game you aren't charged that price until the game releases.
Because if you were then their entire accounting department would have to put a debit out to each individual stating that they are owed the promised product. This is reflected by a credit in your favor of 49.99, basically the company owes you 49.99, a debt. Let's say a company amasses a million pre-orders for something, so...49.99 x 1M.....that's a lot of extra debt to have on your books.
Plus there are laws that prevent them from doing this. So, when the game actually releases you're charged and then given the promised product. In other words they haven't taken your money yet and if they do and don't give you the promised product they will face fines, civil cases and possibly jail time.
Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or accountant, all of the above is taken from self-taught material and stuff I've learned. ^_^
Makes perfect sense but wouldnt there be some sort of terminology that would allow you to change your mind before said charge is applied they cant really force you to buy the product if you dont want it can they if if at the time you though they did
Makes perfect sense but wouldnt there be some sort of terminology that would allow you to change your mind before said charge is applied they cant really force you to buy the product if you dont want it can they if if at the time you though they did
No. If there is an agreement that you either seperately are automatically enter into upon purchase that what you're doing is non-refundable then there isn't anything you can do. You have laws on your side if they try to take your money and give you nothing in return though.
Makes perfect sense but wouldnt there be some sort of terminology that would allow you to change your mind before said charge is applied they cant really force you to buy the product if you dont want it can they if if at the time you though they did
No. If there is an agreement that you either seperately are automatically enter into upon purchase that what you're doing is non-refundable then there isn't anything you can do. You have laws on your side if they try to take your money and give you nothing in return though.
So basically once you click that button so to speak your takuing there product on release day wether you want it or not. Kinda sucks but that god i didnt buy from ncsoft can move my pre order to something more to my tastes like modern warfare 2
So basically once you click that button so to speak your takuing there product on release day wether you want it or not. Kinda sucks but that god i didnt buy from ncsoft can move my pre order to something more to my tastes like modern warfare 2
Basically, yeah. It's not like it's the only way to pre-order though, as you said yourself. I only pre-purchase stuff I'm certain I'm going to enjoy. So right now I have Aion fully downloaded, won't have to go to a store or anything on release day. ^_^
I canceled my Pre order as well...they killed force PVP, and Care Beared the Rift system so it is nearly impossible to gank. If I wanted a safe no risk game I would play hello kitty Island adventure.
So basically once you click that button so to speak your takuing there product on release day wether you want it or not. Kinda sucks but that god i didnt buy from ncsoft can move my pre order to something more to my tastes like modern warfare 2
Basically, yeah. It's not like it's the only way to pre-order though, as you said yourself. I only pre-purchase stuff I'm certain I'm going to enjoy. So right now I have Aion fully downloaded, won't have to go to a store or anything on release day. ^_^
I myself am gonna pass on this one. Like i said not gonna sit here and bash the game or anything just not for me. Im more of a raiding questing kinda player not big on PVP play. But i would like to thank you for you explanations enjoy
I canceled my Pre order as well...they killed force PVP, and Care Beared the Rift system so it is nearly impossible to gank. If I wanted a safe no risk game I would play hello kitty Island adventure.
Ahh poor guy cant grind his way to max level in a week and "gank" people 10 or more levels below him to boost his e-peen ego.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
No, they don't give you six individual fries and then tell you to wait a month. They hand you a receipt, say "your order number is XX" and AT THAT MOMENT, even though you paid in full, THAT little slip of paper and their promise to make your order is all you have to show for the $6 you just spent. I know OP has to wait longer than it takes for them to slop up your grub at a fastfood joint, but I was pointing out that there are different ways to buy anything and it's not the business' fault for offering those options if people want to buy that way.
My comparison works because in one scenario, you pay, then eat. In the other, you eat, then pay. You seem to think if a person paid in full, that means they should have the full game. I'm saying that this model is like paying in full, and then waiting until your order is ready. Sure, you wait a longer amount of time, but YOU are the one deciding to buy the product that way. YOU are the one going to a place that charges you in that fashion. YOU are the one who can go to a sit-down restaurant just as easily (amazon, gamestop, bestbuy = preorder), but for some reason YOU are walking into a McDonald's and shouting "THEY ARE SHADY BECAUSE THEY MAKE YOU PAY UP FRONT HERE!!!"
So, while my comparison might be broken when using perfect logic when looking at it, it still stands that NCSoft is not in the wrong here, not for tricking the consumer or "shady business practices" because they were completely upfront that he was paying now for the FULL product even though he would have to wait. You act like they are focing him to buy from them.
My point is that some vendors sell the game one way, another might sell it a different way. Siding with the OP here is crazy and calling NCSoft "shady" is unfounded. I'm just pointing out that they aren't some diabolical company tricking people and using an unheard of business practice.
Because they sell the game as a prepurchase, are very upfront about what that means, and don't hold a gun to your head and force you to buy the game that way if you don't want to = shady?
In what world...?
Just as an aside:
If you don't care about your NCsoft master account you can probably sell the account on ebay after release.
Or just play it for your 37 included days since they're already giving them to you and have whatever fun there is to be had. Might find you like it.
It's like anything in life really. I used to HATE shrimp, like I tried it many times and never liked it. Then a few years ago I tried some popcorn shrimp and loved them, now I love shrimp in all it's forms. I tried something new to me even though I thought I wasn't going to like and ended up liking a lot more stuff.
Same goes for me and PvP, though it's a much older story. My first game was DAOC then I heard about Lineage 2 and was like, "Oh! That doesn't sound like fun! People can kill you anywhere and you can drop stuff? mmm....I dunno." but some buddies of my twisted my arm. Two years after that (from prelude) I was hooked, sure there was a lot of drama, but those are THE most memorable moments I have while gaming, ever. I loved DAOC more all in all, but I still don't have as many fantastic and memorable stories. So I guess what I'm saying is.....
Give death a chance? ^_^
No, they don't give you six individual fries and then tell you to wait a month. They hand you a receipt, say "your order number is XX" and AT THAT MOMENT, even though you paid in full, THAT little slip of paper and their promise to make your order is all you have to show for the $6 you just spent. I know OP has to wait longer than it takes for them to slop up your grub at a fastfood joint, but I was pointing out that there are different ways to buy anything and it's not the business' fault for offering those options if people want to buy that way.
My comparison works because in one scenario, you pay, then eat. In the other, you eat, then pay. You seem to think if a person paid in full, that means they should have the full game. I'm saying that this model is like paying in full, and then waiting until your order is ready. Sure, you wait a longer amount of time, but YOU are the one deciding to buy the product that way. YOU are the one going to a place that charges you in that fashion. YOU are the one who can go to a sit-down restaurant just as easily (amazon, gamestop, bestbuy = preorder), but for some reason YOU are walking into a McDonald's and shouting "THEY ARE SHADY BECAUSE THEY MAKE YOU PAY UP FRONT HERE!!!"
So, while my comparison might be broken when using perfect logic when looking at it, it still stands that NCSoft is not in the wrong here, not for tricking the consumer or "shady business practices" because they were completely upfront that he was paying now for the FULL product even though he would have to wait. You act like they are focing him to buy from them.
My point is that some vendors sell the game one way, another might sell it a different way. Siding with the OP here is crazy and calling NCSoft "shady" is unfounded. I'm just pointing out that they aren't some diabolical company tricking people and using an unheard of business practice.
Because they sell the game as a prepurchase, are very upfront about what that means, and don't hold a gun to your head and force you to buy the game that way if you don't want to = shady?
In what world...?
Guess its just my opinion but i feel that any buisness not just NCSOFT shouldnt be aloud to do that. I just think that until you receive the final product you should always have a chance to change your mind. But alas the real world isnt like that. Its all about making a buck no matter what
i ve seen no reason to cancel my order having seen the beta . aions a great looking game plays smoothly thats all you can tell at such early levels no mmo really gets started untill you level up a bit . you really need to spend at least two weeks in an mmo to see what it has to offer . the only way i can say if i dislike a game in such early stages is if its graphics dont appeal to me , if its got a lot of bugs or if it does nt play well on my system.
Doing that too often will damage your credit rating. You can't actually see the process but credit bureau do take noticed of such things ("doing a lot of charge backs"). It will come banging once you need a loan or mortgage in the future.
Good one less griefer.
This thread is really getting rediculous.
Listen it isn't about NCSoft or the "non refund" message.
The OP said in the original post he does not wish to play another wow clone. A lot of you from what I am seeing are just Aion fans and are doing your blind zealotry again in regards to anyone trying to shy away from your game for any reason.
Listen OP, so NCSoft says no refunds, so what. That is why I told you to call the CC company and do a charge back.
You got a key dude, a digital 893758023705872348907089 nothing more. This is useless until the game goes live and you can actually use it for the final product.
You said you looked into getting NCSoft to help you on the support side. No help was found.
Call your CC company get the charge back done and case closed. DO what I said and tell them you purchased a product you have not recieved yet, and no longer wish to recieve. (which isn't telling a lie) Like some other poster tried to point the finger at me about previously. Get your money back.
You are the consumer and the customer,and last time I checked the customer is ALWAYS right, regardless of how lame brained your lack of reading skills are on a Gaming website like NCSoft.
15 pages of BS that is all this is. The OP asked how he gets his money back.
Step 1 - You try to contact NCSoft and request a refund on your money because you do not want the game.
If step 1 fails.
Step 2 - Call your CC company and tell them whatever in the hell you have to, just get your money back
This step won't fail.
It is your money at the end of the day, these other people didn't make it for you, they didn't earn it. If you want it back, then get it back, screw all these people telling you its wrong, unethical, your stupid or whatever it is they say.
Money is Money. It is yours to decide what you do with it.
As a small business owner, should a dishonest customer follow this shamelessly unethical piece of bad advice, I would probably seek a collection agency on them (only because the amount in question is relatively small - for more considerable sums I would probably attempt to plead my case with your CC company or outright sue you for breach of contract).
You entered into a contract when you accepted to pre-order without refund. When you breach a contract there can be consequences.
In the end, if you do not pay and the company decides to seek remedy to your actions, your credit history can end up being impacted.
Proceed with caution.
No kidding. This has nothing to do with liking or disliking the game it all, it has to do with suggesting cheap and underhanded tactics in order to get a "refund" on a game you already bought.
I don't care how large of a company NCSoft is, that's still just bad form. But I guess some people feel it's alright to screw a company just because. Pathetic.
If you really have no interest in playing the game than sell the account/keys to someone for a little cheaper than you bought it. You'll get at least some money back, someone will get the game for cheaper and you won't have to use underhanded tactics to get it back.
Haha, I dont even know where to start with you.
"Just because"? People tried the game, didn't like it, and want their money back. They were not issued a piece of software, thus it's a simple matter of just cancelling the previously valid key. If they didn't want people trying out the game this way; they shouldn't have granted "beta" access to those preorder customers.
I don't really get what the big fuss is though, I ordered online, tried the beta; hated it and proceeded to cancel with absolutely no issue at all.