Because if the new publishing company has investors those investors would do well to take sell now before the bottom drops out of their stock for aligning themselves with DF.
Say whatever you want about Niche games. Development and publishing costs plenty and if you dont have the subscriber base (which DF doesnt) they will drag you under.
Those people who are interested in DF in NA that did not already buy the original release are very very much in the minority. The NA release is doomed unless it goes free to play or complete rebuild.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
I can't see why DFO shouln't have a good future. I still wait for non CC Payment Solutions to be implemented and when that happen nothing will stop me from try it out
Its not perfect but its refreshing and copanys like this will safe us the horror to play Wow VII , Perfect World IV and Aion XV in a couple of years with the same concept as today just minor changes better grafics and more marketing
LotRO released housing (among other things) in an update, not an expansion. So, your point is not made.
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
this isn't an expansion its just a patch. Hell everytime WoW adds a new content patch its has triple if not more the content of this and its still just a patch......
this isn't an expansion its just a patch. Hell everytime WoW adds a new content patch its has triple if not more the content of this and its still just a patch......
Well glad we could clear that up. I wasn't aware WoW was the absolute reference point for the entire MMO genre. I must of missed the results from the last MMO summit.
Thank you -CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
LotRO released housing (among other things) in an update, not an expansion. So, your point is not made.
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
The housing system in LotRO "expanded" that game as well. It gave players a hub for all characters, storage, and the chance to craft decorations for the home. But, it was an "update". You can use symantics all you want, but the list you provided is an "update", not an expansion. As I understand it, you are not guaranteed a home either and the homes are limited.
Is there any other points to the housing system other than PvP...do they offer ANYTHING else to the player....
LotRO released housing (among other things) in an update, not an expansion. So, your point is not made.
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
I would like your opinion on what the risk is in Darkfall?
As I see it there really is no risk. Yes you can lose your gear and inventory, however it is easily replaced = no risk. With the new crafting updates, it is even easier to get gear.
You can lose a city or hamlet but so what? The same resources can be found any where. Yes you can harvest more in the cities. how ever to me it is still no big loss. Now if each city had special resources that could not be found any where else and only those that belonged to the city could harvest them. Then losing that city/hamlet would be risk = reward. As it stands now anyone can harvest anywhere even in enemy cities/hamlets.
See in a world as harsh as this game is suppose to be, I would expect a real risk vs reward. Loss of stats/skills would be a start. Or getting armor weapons being hard to come by would be another way. How ever the game sort of started that way and all you saw was naked players running around, to afraid to wear their gear.
I can understand Farlic's use of comparing to Eve. Like you said it is the only other game that has FFA PVP. Now while that game may have insurance for losses, it is still has more risk vs. reward than Darkfall has right now. In my opinion.
So again in your opinion what is the risk in this game?
LotRO released housing (among other things) in an update, not an expansion. So, your point is not made.
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
wh what, eve a space sim???????? What the hell are YOU smoking. How dare you disregard it as an mmorpg. You role play a pilot. The story of eve has been moving on. old wars are renewing and the sleepers finally made their appearance. the movement of story and allowing you to play the role of a char makes it an rpg. Playing the game with thousands of others makes it a mmo. so you add em both together and ya you get an mmorpg.
Eve is the PRIME example of risk vs reward. There is risk every where and yes it also defines sandbox as you can scam and do whatever you want. Everything is player driven. I can list you tons of ways of how risky eve is. but ill put a few.
You can be in empire space with a navy issue ship, work to get all this expensive mods to make your life easy . Yet a group of people can come and either instigate you to attack, wardec your corp to engage you or simply suicide attack you and reap all of what you worked on. This pilot risked his best ship in an all out battle between BoB and Bydi in the tama solar system bydi.griefwatch.net/ he lost more than about 20 billion in less than a minute.
But most importantly happens in its simplest form. Your into pvp, you engage pvp on a daily basis, if you dont make enough income to support your pvp habits you risk on becoming a shipless bastard because you LOSE income every time you lose a ship. There is always risk no matter what you do.
There now tell me about some risk in darkfall.
Come on i dare you because i have 2 words, yep 2 words that make darkfall a pathetic excuse of a pvp game bilt for carebears who swear they are HARDCORE.
******** UNIVERSAL BANKING *********
Any type of risk you try to mention about darkfall is worthless due to the fact that you just have to bank your shit and travel.
Ps: I just realized you answered my previous post so ill respond to that. So you enjoy a game with no risk whatso ever? Yes that is my response to your liking of universal banking. Cuz if i dided and got podded in eve I had to travel back where i was pvping at. It must be glorious to use your enemys bank to get your gear to engage em when they kill you... Carebear in my eyes.
Now as for the risk you said about guild makeing a city Oh comeon its pathetic and actually laughable on how quick a city is build.
Take a Titan class ship in eve. Not only is it resorce heavy it takes MONTHs to complete. Losing one in a huge battle is a very depressing sight due to all the investment and time to make it. Lose a city in darkfall and guess what, nada happens the city is still there you just have to reconquer it. How by zerging your buttocs off. Just join a huge allince and smelt the people who snagged it from you. Only citys are worth somthing , the rest like hamlets are all abandond and worthless.OH AND LETS NOT FORGET THAT EVERY GUILD EXPLOITED EARLY ON IN THE GAME TO MAKE THOSE CITYS.
Not to mention that all of darkfalls structures have a predefined location where they can be made. you cannot make em where you want. Eve you can have a station built wherever solarsystem that was 0.0 you wanted. you just need to get enoufh sov for it.
we can go on and on about it. As it is and comming from a competitive gamer. Darkfall is as carebear as it gets for pvp . no risk and universal banking. Its half of a sandbox due to it.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
LotRO released housing (among other things) in an update, not an expansion. So, your point is not made.
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
Lineage 2 is FFA.
Just because cities act as safe zones doesn't mean I can't attack everyone and anyone.
L2 is probably the closest comparison to DFO as far as MMO's go. Both are FFA pvp games with an emphasis on clan vs clan warfare and territory control.
Vanguard has a FFA server.
Wasn't there FFA PvP in AC? Never played, but I thought people were saying there was a server or something that was.
And I'm not wrong about hamlets.
People have been making suggestion after suggestion about ways to make hamlets viable.
The last time I logged in was less then a month ago and most of the hamlets I went to were empty, with broken or entirely destroyed banks. People are complaining about not being able to easily defend or maintain a hamlet, and that large city controlling clans are taking them over to keep them out of others control and then abandoning them; only using them as places to bind for seiges.
Just because your clan is using one doesn't mean that the magority of them are being used for there intended purpose or functioning properly. In three months I came across one that actually had a resource node placed in a hamlet. My clan farmed it empty on a regular basis and the hamlet didn't even belong to us. This has been another big complaint by players, the inability to place things like walls to keep others out of the hamlets; making placing objects pointless as they are either farmed empty by other clans almost continuosly or destroyed on a regular basis, and requiring the controlling clan to farm endlessly just to maintane the hamlet.
I would like your opinion on what the risk is in Darkfall? As I see it there really is no risk. Yes you can lose your gear and inventory, however it is easily replaced = no risk. With the new crafting updates, it is even easier to get gear. Easy Replaceable? Guess that all depends on if you are wearing cheap drops from mobs that give very little protection, or good crafted armor like Plate or Chain, which cost a fair amount of resources and gold. Most players have learned that as "painful" as the risk may be to lose great gear, it improves their performance considerably and chance of winning, so the smart players gear up to the teeth. Harvesting and crafting are time and gold sinks, so obviously risking losing items that come from those sources is a risk. Then there are rares one can find, or can skin for. It's an open Free for All total drop game, and you continue to suggest there is nothing at risk. Sorry, I don't get it. You can lose a city or hamlet but so what? The same resources can be found any where. Yes you can harvest more in the cities. how ever to me it is still no big loss. Now if each city had special resources that could not be found any where else and only those that belonged to the city could harvest them. Then losing that city/hamlet would be risk = reward. As it stands now anyone can harvest anywhere even in enemy cities/hamlets. I don't think you've ever been part of building a city. It takes a massive amount of work, but you make it sound like losing what all that effort went in to is no big deal. Have you participated in building a city, or just drawing conclusions based upon what you think? Cities "do" have special resources; how can you not know that? Only certain cities have certain resources like mines that produce rare ore, or a shipyard, or... well this is getting silly. Go play the game, participate in building a city or sieging and defending one; lose and come back and explain how it was no different than all the other games where when you die you respawn and continue to fight. It's like night and day, and not even a point I can debate seriously. If you don't see risk in this game, you don't want to see it. See in a world as harsh as this game is suppose to be, I would expect a real risk vs reward. Loss of stats/skills would be a start. Or getting armor weapons being hard to come by would be another way. How ever the game sort of started that way and all you saw was naked players running around, to afraid to wear their gear. The risks as outlined above are more than sufficient. In a skill based game requiring effort to improve, merely losing a fight that resulted in losing stats would not be "fun". It would also discourage PvP, which is the opposite of the point of the game. Every thing is a balance. I outlined the "risk" of death in this game. If they had Stat loss you'd probably be here demanding Perma-Death and suggesting in its absence the game is carebear. I can understand Farlic's use of comparing to Eve. Like you said it is the only other game that has FFA PVP. Now while that game may have insurance for losses, it is still has more risk vs. reward than Darkfall has right now. In my opinion. Great. Sounds like you prefer Eve. Have fun. So again in your opinion what is the risk in this game?
I gave a taste of my take on risk a page ago. To your other points above I'll answer in dayglow green lol.
"No real reward to take risk
You have to be joking. If your guild spends countless hours farming to build a city, you still risk losing it, same with Hamlets, same with Ships; same with every virtual item you can own in this game except a house, which would need to decay. At death you drop all your gear and inventory. If you kill your own race you are unable to enter npc made cities and must rely on chaos cities which are just that, chaotic, and/or player made cities if you happen to have access to one. "
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
I would like your opinion on what the risk is in Darkfall? As I see it there really is no risk. Yes you can lose your gear and inventory, however it is easily replaced = no risk. With the new crafting updates, it is even easier to get gear. Easy Replaceable? Guess that all depends on if you are wearing cheap drops from mobs that give very little protection, or good crafted armor like Plate or Chain, which cost a fair amount of resources and gold. Most players have learned that as "painful" as the risk may be to lose great gear, it improves their performance considerably and chance of winning, so the smart players gear up to the teeth. Harvesting and crafting are time and gold sinks, so obviously risking losing items that come from those sources is a risk. Then there are rares one can find, or can skin for. It's an open Free for All total drop game, and you continue to suggest there is nothing at risk. Sorry, I don't get it. You can lose a city or hamlet but so what? The same resources can be found any where. Yes you can harvest more in the cities. how ever to me it is still no big loss. Now if each city had special resources that could not be found any where else and only those that belonged to the city could harvest them. Then losing that city/hamlet would be risk = reward. As it stands now anyone can harvest anywhere even in enemy cities/hamlets. I don't think you've ever been part of building a city. It takes a massive amount of work, but you make it sound like losing what all that effort went in to is no big deal. Have you participated in building a city, or just drawing conclusions based upon what you think? Cities "do" have special resources; how can you not know that? Only certain cities have certain resources like mines that produce rare ore, or a shipyard, or... well this is getting silly. Go play the game, participate in building a city or sieging and defending one; lose and come back and explain how it was no different than all the other games where when you die you respawn and continue to fight. It's like night and day, and not even a point I can debate seriously. If you don't see risk in this game, you don't want to see it. See in a world as harsh as this game is suppose to be, I would expect a real risk vs reward. Loss of stats/skills would be a start. Or getting armor weapons being hard to come by would be another way. How ever the game sort of started that way and all you saw was naked players running around, to afraid to wear their gear. The risks as outlined above are more than sufficient. In a skill based game requiring effort to improve, merely losing a fight that resulted in losing stats would not be "fun". It would also discourage PvP, which is the opposite of the point of the game. Every thing is a balance. I outlined the "risk" of death in this game. If they had Stat loss you'd probably be here demanding Perma-Death and suggesting in its absence the game is carebear. I can understand Farlic's use of comparing to Eve. Like you said it is the only other game that has FFA PVP. Now while that game may have insurance for losses, it is still has more risk vs. reward than Darkfall has right now. In my opinion. Great. Sounds like you prefer Eve. Have fun. So again in your opinion what is the risk in this game?
I gave a taste of my take on risk a page ago. To your other points above I'll answer in dayglow green lol.
"No real reward to take risk
You have to be joking. If your guild spends countless hours farming to build a city, you still risk losing it, same with Hamlets, same with Ships; same with every virtual item you can own in this game except a house, which would need to decay. At death you drop all your gear and inventory. If you kill your own race you are unable to enter npc made cities and must rely on chaos cities which are just that, chaotic, and/or player made cities if you happen to have access to one. "
-CC
This is funny. In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back. The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary. Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.
It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....
Just because cities act as safe zones doesn't mean I can't attack everyone and anyone.
L2 is probably the closest comparison to DFO as far as MMO's go. Both are FFA pvp games with an emphasis on clan vs clan warfare and territory control. I love Lineage ][. In fact, I still play it from time to time. The karma system in Lineage ][ prevents it from being FFA and you know it. Players that are not red in L2, will not drop items. Players that are red in L2 will. Items in L2 are MUCH more difficult to obtain and imporatnt in L2 than DFO and you know that too. In DFO, all players drop all their stuff regardless of what the karma system in the game has color coded them. In DFO, players who are Red can use Chaos cities and have full acess to supplies and the like, if they don't belong to a guild with a player made city. In L2 you have what, 1 chaos town with no trainers? Vanguard has a FFA server. It did. After 99% of us stopped playing because of the coding nightmare, I believe they merged servers and the FFA was changed to RvR. I could be wrong; but due to the horrid fate of that game, I really haven't kept up. Wasn't there FFA PvP in AC? Never played, but I thought people were saying there was a server or something that was. I didn't mean to suggest FFA PvP has never existed. I was speaking to what's currently available within a reasonable period of time. Siege Perilous in UO is FFA, and I highly recommend it, but it's a 12 year old game. Yes, AC was FFA and the best game I've played next to UO, but only on the Darktide server and even there, loot drops were limited to number of items which varied by level, and could be protected by filling ones inventory with junk. And I'm not wrong about hamlets.
People have been making suggestion after suggestion about ways to make hamlets viable.
The last time I logged in was less then a month ago and most of the hamlets I went to were empty, with broken or entirely destroyed banks. People are complaining about not being able to easily defend or maintain a hamlet, and that large city controlling clans are taking them over to keep them out of others control and then abandoning them; only using them as places to bind for seiges. Just because your clan is using one doesn't mean that the magority of them are being used for there intended purpose or functioning properly. In three months I came across one that actually had a resource node placed in a hamlet. My clan farmed it empty on a regular basis and the hamlet didn't even belong to us. This has been another big complaint by players, the inability to place things like walls to keep others out of the hamlets; making placing objects pointless as they are either farmed empty by other clans almost continuosly or destroyed on a regular basis, and requiring the controlling clan to farm endlessly just to maintane the hamlet.
Rather than trying to debate you on this, as we have different views, I'd like to remind you that DFO is very much a player created content type of game. The politics and territory focus changes over time. The game that began with huge zergs forming is evolving. Zergs have been defeated, new ones born, small guilds that were squashed have gained respect and are resurfacing. After the initial E-Peen "I can own you" few months of play, more and more players and guilds are looking for quality PvP, not Zerg vs Zerg. As such, Hamlets are becoming far more respected as places smaller guilds can call home, and finding them viable. Regardless of what many on this forum claim, DFO is absolutely a Sandbox, and many of the complaints, outside of game mechanics, can be addressed in game by the players. Many, including some of my own friends, don't want to deal with it. Frankly, I think they've become soft from all the theme park instant gratification games we've been fed year after year. Then there are a good number of my friends who love DFO, and we've gone out of our way to ensure we play the game how "we want to" and not how others believe we should. The fact we've been successful in doing just that, and leveling our skills not by macroing, but by actually fighting, is a testament to the fact this game is a Sandbox and is what you make it.
Cheers -CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
This is funny. In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back. The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary. Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.
It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....
junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun. The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about. The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy. It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone. There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.
Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start. You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city. All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
This is funny. In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back. The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary. Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.
It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....
junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun. The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about. The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy. It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone. There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.
Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start. You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city. All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.
-CC
Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank rince and repeat.
Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is use the enemy bank. It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off but all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the enemy bank to siege the clan stone.
Once again this is all about reward and NO risk.
Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game. oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials. Pointless.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
This is funny. In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back. The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary. Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.
It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....
junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun. The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about. The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy. It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone. There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.
Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start. You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city. All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.
-CC
My apologies, you are correct. It was to acquire the shard, not the actual building of the city.
Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank rince and repeat. Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is use the enemy bank. It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off but all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the enemy bank to siege the clan stone. Once again this is all about reward and NO risk. Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game. oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials. Pointless.
If you are serious about having a discussion, just throwing stuff out like that with absolutely no context can be very misleading. In your first paragraph you make it sound as if the ore, wood, stone, etc. one harvests magically goes from ones inventory to a bank. Resource nodes one can access from the safety of town are extremely limited and give very little, with timers of 3-hours before they can be used again. To gather resources, once MUST leave town. When you are out of town, good luck getting back with your harvest; it's a risky venture, less risky if you have clan members and friends around to watch your back.
I agree with you that using an enemy bank to take or put stuff in is rediculous. That should be changed. No argument.
The last paragraph about folks claiming to be hardcore leaves me in the dark. I didn't know there was some E-Core competition taking place. DFO is what it is, and the aspect of it most people love is its wide open nature, ability for players to pick their own friends and enemies, as opposed to most games that are Realm vs Realm, and that death has meaning, and isn't just a quick trip back to a bind point. I've outlined in a few threads/posts what the risks are. If they aren't meeting your desired level for danger to have fun in a game, then let us know when you find that game. I'd be interested to hear where you land.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank rince and repeat. Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is use the enemy bank. It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off but all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the enemy bank to siege the clan stone. Once again this is all about reward and NO risk. Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game. oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials. Pointless.
If you are serious about having a discussion, just throwing stuff out like that with absolutely no context can be very misleading. In your first paragraph you make it sound as if the ore, wood, stone, etc. one harvests magically goes from ones inventory to a bank. Resource nodes one can access from the safety of town are extremely limited and give very little, with timers of 3-hours before they can be used again. To gather resources, once MUST leave town. When you are out of town, good luck getting back with your harvest; it's a risky venture, less risky if you have clan members and friends around to watch your back.
I agree with you that using an enemy bank to take or put stuff in is rediculous. That should be changed. No argument.
The last paragraph about folks claiming to be hardcore leaves me in the dark. I didn't know there was some E-Core competition taking place. DFO is what it is, and the aspect of it most people love is its wide open nature, ability for players to pick their own friends and enemies, as opposed to most games that are Realm vs Realm, and that death has meaning, and isn't just a quick trip back to a bind point. I've outlined in a few threads/posts what the risks are. If they aren't meeting your desired level for danger to have fun in a game, then let us know when you find that game. I'd be interested to hear where you land.
-CC
Trust me once banks are localized darkfall will be a different game. While the resorces in a city are limited they do add up. when people do leave the city for resorces they 1st look for the closest bank, it can be a bank that happens to be in the wilderness or a unused or some random hamlet . Grab a load of materials and deposit into the closest bank, rinse and repeat. The risk is still not there. No trade routes , nothing. All is accociated with universal banking. Now just picture darkfall with localized banks. Oh and important resorces only found in ciertian parts of agon. Guilds and alliences will atucally have to travel far for their needs, set people to harvest and a good group of people to protect them from bandits, then escort them back to the city. Pirates and Bandits can actually be pirates and bandits. an economy will start to fourm. Trade routes will forum. There will be real risk to travel from one place to the other since your forced to carry your goods. Agon will be more chaotic, more sinister and even more immersive. Heck thats all im waiting for to change to give it a shot.
Now as for the reason i mention Hardcore alot, just look back 4 to 5 months ago at all the rabid fanboys claiming everyone else who plays other games are just a bunch of carebears and that dfo is the only hardcore game out there.
Every time someone mentioned a problem with a game, they were not hardcore enough. That has quelled down a bit.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Trust me once banks are localized darkfall will be a different game. While the resorces in a city are limited they do add up. when people do leave the city for resorces they 1st look for the closest bank, it can be a bank that happens to be in the wilderness or a unused or some random hamlet . Grab a load of materials and deposit into the closest bank, rinse and repeat. The risk is still not there. No trade routes , nothing. All is accociated with universal banking. Now just picture darkfall with localized banks. Oh and important resorces only found in ciertian parts of agon. Guilds and alliences will atucally have to travel far for their needs, set people to harvest and a good group of people to protect them from bandits, then escort them back to the city. Pirates and Bandits can actually be pirates and bandits. an economy will start to fourm. Trade routes will forum. There will be real risk to travel from one place to the other since your forced to carry your goods. Agon will be more chaotic, more sinister and even more immersive. Heck thats all im waiting for to change to give it a shot. Now as for the reason i mention Hardcore alot, just look back 4 to 5 months ago at all the rabid fanboys claiming everyone else who plays other games are just a bunch of carebears and that dfo is the only hardcore game out there. Every time someone mentioned a problem with a game, they were not hardcore enough. That has quelled down a bit.
You make some good points.
Please keep in mind though that the harvesting and crafting have gone through some good changes. I mean at launch, you needed a macro program while you played the game just to save yourself from clicking a million times to gather stuff. Eventually AV put in a auto click so you only need to click once unless your stamina runs out. This last update included improvements to crafting items in terms of time. Imagine the first methods with what you suggest piled on top of it; people would have pulled what hair they had left out of their heads. So while I think yours ideas are good, I also think AV is being smart in its timing of when certain changes or features are made/added.
I remain boggled with how any one can play DFO and say there isn't enough risk. There wouldn't of been so many naked players if there was really no risk; and now that armor means more and lowbie weapons mean less, players are being forced to take more risk, or die very easily.
The HardCore stuff is boring, and understand where you're coming from. That said, let's be honest here; the vast majority of MMO players have never played an open ffa full loot game. It's difficult enough just to find a game that doesn't tell you who your enemies are, let alone offer any real risk to death. Very few games have any reasonable consequences for death, and that alone would turn off many players and lead them to complain about DFO for all sorts of reasons that may have nothing to do with the real one. I'm not suggesting this is true of those who complain here, as obviously there are those who love that type of ruleset but have issues with DFO; but it is true, well, for those it's true for ^^ lol.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me, what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Trust me once banks are localized darkfall will be a different game. While the resorces in a city are limited they do add up. when people do leave the city for resorces they 1st look for the closest bank, it can be a bank that happens to be in the wilderness or a unused or some random hamlet . Grab a load of materials and deposit into the closest bank, rinse and repeat. The risk is still not there. No trade routes , nothing. All is accociated with universal banking. Now just picture darkfall with localized banks. Oh and important resorces only found in ciertian parts of agon. Guilds and alliences will atucally have to travel far for their needs, set people to harvest and a good group of people to protect them from bandits, then escort them back to the city. Pirates and Bandits can actually be pirates and bandits. an economy will start to fourm. Trade routes will forum. There will be real risk to travel from one place to the other since your forced to carry your goods. Agon will be more chaotic, more sinister and even more immersive. Heck thats all im waiting for to change to give it a shot. Now as for the reason i mention Hardcore alot, just look back 4 to 5 months ago at all the rabid fanboys claiming everyone else who plays other games are just a bunch of carebears and that dfo is the only hardcore game out there. Every time someone mentioned a problem with a game, they were not hardcore enough. That has quelled down a bit.
You make some good points.
Please keep in mind though that the harvesting and crafting have gone through some good changes. I mean at launch, you needed a macro program while you played the game just to save yourself from clicking a million times to gather stuff. Eventually AV put in a auto click so you only need to click once unless your stamina runs out. This last update included improvements to crafting items in terms of time. Imagine the first methods with what you suggest piled on top of it; people would have pulled what hair they had left out of their heads. So while I think yours ideas are good, I also think AV is being smart in its timing of when certain changes or features are made/added.
I remain boggled with how any one can play DFO and say there isn't enough risk. There wouldn't of been so many naked players if there was really no risk; and now that armor means more and lowbie weapons mean less, players are being forced to take more risk, or die very easily.
The HardCore stuff is boring, and understand where you're coming from. That said, let's be honest here; the vast majority of MMO players have never played an open ffa full loot game. It's difficult enough just to find a game that doesn't tell you who your enemies are, let alone offer any real risk to death. Very few games have any reasonable consequences for death, and that alone would turn off many players and lead them to complain about DFO for all sorts of reasons that may have nothing to do with the real one. I'm not suggesting this is true of those who complain here, as obviously there are those who love that type of ruleset but have issues with DFO; but it is true, well, for those it's true for ^^ lol.
-CC
Many things can be suggested to make it a better game.
Right now many people are complaining that each player ends up becoming a carbon copy of each other, while now extentions to spells were added, its a matter of time that someone makes up a build and everyone follows suit.
With a game with so many skills other rules should be applied to the game to actually make each character.
For example. If people would like to specilize in casting. Int can be a modifyer on which every 2 points of int reduce 1 str. Also raiding your magic skills high reduce the ability to use full plate gear. Thier dmg with spells can get a slight dmg increase at the price of a melee dmg decrease.
Plate armor should give a reduction in movement or take a high toll on stamina and only those who focus on melee weps and armor get a modifyer to counter the movement reduction and stamina loss. Ths means others can use plate but at a cost. 2 points in str can buff 3 points in sta and vit but lose 1 point in int and agi. losing 2 points in agi does cause a reduction of 1 point in vit and stam to balance it out.
People who focus in archery can get a slight movement but that doesnt give them the ability to sprint faster than other people when using leather armor or non full plate gear. While they will sprint at the same speed as everyone else they can get a bit of distance when not sprinting . 2 points of agi also buffs 1 point to vit n stam
now thats just thinkng out loud. The easy way would be if your skilling up melee every 2 points it reduces 1 point of archery and magic. In other words make some skills reduce others so people can specialize, yet have the other abilities, just not exceed at everything.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Originally posted by javac yeah, cause blizzard hasn't been double-charging people to switch from EU to NA and back for the last 5 years... Oh wait, they have. blizzard don't even give you the option to transfer chars EU <-> NA either, you just have to buy a whole new client plus all the expansions again.
Blizzard doesn't allow the transfer because it is IMPOSSIBLE WITH DIFFERENT PUBLISHERS.
Unlike Darkfail, with the lying PR manager, who's just going to charge people for copy and pasting their information.
EDIT: Did anyone notice that the patch notes were smaller than the bullshit notice?
"Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it is to the one who endures that the final victory comes."
This is funny. In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back. The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary. Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.
It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....
junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun. The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about. The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy. It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone. There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.
Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start. You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city. All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.
-CC
Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank rince and repeat.
Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is use the enemy bank. It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off but all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the enemy bank to siege the clan stone.
Once again this is all about reward and NO risk.
Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game. oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials. Pointless.
While I am a strong proponent of localized banking and I do believe that it would increase the risk and lead to a better economy, I think you are making a rather broad generalization when you say the game currently has absolutely no risk at all due to the banking system.
The reality is, unless you've found a way to carry your bank around with you in your backpack with you, you are going to run into gankers who can kill you and take your stuff before you get back to a bank.
Again, just because materials are cheaper, it doesn't mean that they are free.
Granted, this game is not as hard on the players as EVE. But on the other hand, you have to remember: it's NOT EVE.
EVE in a fantasy setting would be an awesome game, but I never expected Darkfall to be EVE. Neither should you.
These huge expansion made many people rethink and resubscribe to Darkfall, the cties are more busy then ever and also roaming players and opportunities for PvP everywhere.
Great job on the expansion AV.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Comments
They release a content patch and call it an expansion? That is pretty amazing...
Because if the new publishing company has investors those investors would do well to take sell now before the bottom drops out of their stock for aligning themselves with DF.
Say whatever you want about Niche games. Development and publishing costs plenty and if you dont have the subscriber base (which DF doesnt) they will drag you under.
Those people who are interested in DF in NA that did not already buy the original release are very very much in the minority. The NA release is doomed unless it goes free to play or complete rebuild.
Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck
nah if the price tag for this game went down to $15 and $3 a month then this game would be worth buying and playing
Then you'd need 3 accounts to play one character.
I can't see why DFO shouln't have a good future. I still wait for non CC Payment Solutions to be implemented and when that happen nothing will stop me from try it out
Its not perfect but its refreshing and copanys like this will safe us the horror to play Wow VII , Perfect World IV and Aion XV in a couple of years with the same concept as today just minor changes better grafics and more marketing
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
this isn't an expansion its just a patch. Hell everytime WoW adds a new content patch its has triple if not more the content of this and its still just a patch......
Well glad we could clear that up. I wasn't aware WoW was the absolute reference point for the entire MMO genre. I must of missed the results from the last MMO summit.
Thank you -CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
The housing system in LotRO "expanded" that game as well. It gave players a hub for all characters, storage, and the chance to craft decorations for the home. But, it was an "update". You can use symantics all you want, but the list you provided is an "update", not an expansion. As I understand it, you are not guaranteed a home either and the homes are limited.
Is there any other points to the housing system other than PvP...do they offer ANYTHING else to the player....
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
I would like your opinion on what the risk is in Darkfall?
As I see it there really is no risk. Yes you can lose your gear and inventory, however it is easily replaced = no risk. With the new crafting updates, it is even easier to get gear.
You can lose a city or hamlet but so what? The same resources can be found any where. Yes you can harvest more in the cities. how ever to me it is still no big loss. Now if each city had special resources that could not be found any where else and only those that belonged to the city could harvest them. Then losing that city/hamlet would be risk = reward. As it stands now anyone can harvest anywhere even in enemy cities/hamlets.
See in a world as harsh as this game is suppose to be, I would expect a real risk vs reward. Loss of stats/skills would be a start. Or getting armor weapons being hard to come by would be another way. How ever the game sort of started that way and all you saw was naked players running around, to afraid to wear their gear.
I can understand Farlic's use of comparing to Eve. Like you said it is the only other game that has FFA PVP. Now while that game may have insurance for losses, it is still has more risk vs. reward than Darkfall has right now. In my opinion.
So again in your opinion what is the risk in this game?
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
wh what, eve a space sim???????? What the hell are YOU smoking. How dare you disregard it as an mmorpg. You role play a pilot. The story of eve has been moving on. old wars are renewing and the sleepers finally made their appearance. the movement of story and allowing you to play the role of a char makes it an rpg. Playing the game with thousands of others makes it a mmo. so you add em both together and ya you get an mmorpg.
Eve is the PRIME example of risk vs reward. There is risk every where and yes it also defines sandbox as you can scam and do whatever you want. Everything is player driven. I can list you tons of ways of how risky eve is. but ill put a few.
You can be in empire space with a navy issue ship, work to get all this expensive mods to make your life easy . Yet a group of people can come and either instigate you to attack, wardec your corp to engage you or simply suicide attack you and reap all of what you worked on. This pilot risked his best ship in an all out battle between BoB and Bydi in the tama solar system bydi.griefwatch.net/ he lost more than about 20 billion in less than a minute.
www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp this thread speaks for itself. Theft and betrayal.
But most importantly happens in its simplest form. Your into pvp, you engage pvp on a daily basis, if you dont make enough income to support your pvp habits you risk on becoming a shipless bastard because you LOSE income every time you lose a ship. There is always risk no matter what you do.
There now tell me about some risk in darkfall.
Come on i dare you because i have 2 words, yep 2 words that make darkfall a pathetic excuse of a pvp game bilt for carebears who swear they are HARDCORE.
******** UNIVERSAL BANKING *********
Any type of risk you try to mention about darkfall is worthless due to the fact that you just have to bank your shit and travel.
Ps: I just realized you answered my previous post so ill respond to that. So you enjoy a game with no risk whatso ever? Yes that is my response to your liking of universal banking. Cuz if i dided and got podded in eve I had to travel back where i was pvping at. It must be glorious to use your enemys bank to get your gear to engage em when they kill you... Carebear in my eyes.
Now as for the risk you said about guild makeing a city Oh comeon its pathetic and actually laughable on how quick a city is build.
Take a Titan class ship in eve. Not only is it resorce heavy it takes MONTHs to complete. Losing one in a huge battle is a very depressing sight due to all the investment and time to make it. Lose a city in darkfall and guess what, nada happens the city is still there you just have to reconquer it. How by zerging your buttocs off. Just join a huge allince and smelt the people who snagged it from you. Only citys are worth somthing , the rest like hamlets are all abandond and worthless.OH AND LETS NOT FORGET THAT EVERY GUILD EXPLOITED EARLY ON IN THE GAME TO MAKE THOSE CITYS.
Not to mention that all of darkfalls structures have a predefined location where they can be made. you cannot make em where you want. Eve you can have a station built wherever solarsystem that was 0.0 you wanted. you just need to get enoufh sov for it.
we can go on and on about it. As it is and comming from a competitive gamer. Darkfall is as carebear as it gets for pvp . no risk and universal banking. Its half of a sandbox due to it.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
My number 3 read:
Like this is really important? The "Addition" of "Housing, a Villiage System with asset benefits and open pvp opportunities for villiages to be captures/lost; Nexus System" it is clearly an expansion. I agree the many other items on the list can be viewed as a patch, but not the ones I just referenced.
I think most of us are tired of beating a dead horse, but it's more than houses, which in LoTRO are instanced.
A "Non-Instanced" housing system that is persistant, that goes on to comprise a "Villiage System" that acts as a revenue stream and can change hands based on PvP, along with the Nexus System, which isn't a code produced static subway system, but a player controlled transport opportunity, "EXPAND" the current game.
@Farlic - Eve is the one and only game you can reference that has FFA, and it's a space sim. All the other games play it safe with risk, pvp, and use code to dictate player behavior. You are wrong about Hamlets not being used. I should know, as it is our guilds and one of our allies main home in the game, and we are having a blast.
Peace -CC
Lineage 2 is FFA.
Just because cities act as safe zones doesn't mean I can't attack everyone and anyone.
L2 is probably the closest comparison to DFO as far as MMO's go. Both are FFA pvp games with an emphasis on clan vs clan warfare and territory control.
Vanguard has a FFA server.
Wasn't there FFA PvP in AC? Never played, but I thought people were saying there was a server or something that was.
And I'm not wrong about hamlets.
People have been making suggestion after suggestion about ways to make hamlets viable.
The last time I logged in was less then a month ago and most of the hamlets I went to were empty, with broken or entirely destroyed banks. People are complaining about not being able to easily defend or maintain a hamlet, and that large city controlling clans are taking them over to keep them out of others control and then abandoning them; only using them as places to bind for seiges.
Just because your clan is using one doesn't mean that the magority of them are being used for there intended purpose or functioning properly. In three months I came across one that actually had a resource node placed in a hamlet. My clan farmed it empty on a regular basis and the hamlet didn't even belong to us. This has been another big complaint by players, the inability to place things like walls to keep others out of the hamlets; making placing objects pointless as they are either farmed empty by other clans almost continuosly or destroyed on a regular basis, and requiring the controlling clan to farm endlessly just to maintane the hamlet.
I gave a taste of my take on risk a page ago. To your other points above I'll answer in dayglow green lol.
"No real reward to take risk
You have to be joking. If your guild spends countless hours farming to build a city, you still risk losing it, same with Hamlets, same with Ships; same with every virtual item you can own in this game except a house, which would need to decay. At death you drop all your gear and inventory. If you kill your own race you are unable to enter npc made cities and must rely on chaos cities which are just that, chaotic, and/or player made cities if you happen to have access to one. "
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
I gave a taste of my take on risk a page ago. To your other points above I'll answer in dayglow green lol.
"No real reward to take risk
You have to be joking. If your guild spends countless hours farming to build a city, you still risk losing it, same with Hamlets, same with Ships; same with every virtual item you can own in this game except a house, which would need to decay. At death you drop all your gear and inventory. If you kill your own race you are unable to enter npc made cities and must rely on chaos cities which are just that, chaotic, and/or player made cities if you happen to have access to one. "
-CC
This is funny. In the beginning when hacking was prevalent and guilds where getting cities up, people were calling for a roll back. The fanbots shot back that it didn't take much to acquire and build cities, and thus a roll back isn't necessary. Now, when the argument turns to risk vs reward, the fanbots claim that cities do take time and thus are a risk.
It's weird how the argument changes when the topic does....
Cheers -CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun. The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about. The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy. It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone. There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.
Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start. You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city. All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun. The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about. The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy. It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone. There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.
Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start. You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city. All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.
-CC
Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank rince and repeat.
Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is use the enemy bank. It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off but all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the enemy bank to siege the clan stone.
Once again this is all about reward and NO risk.
Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game. oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials. Pointless.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun. The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about. The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy. It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone. There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.
Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start. You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city. All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.
-CC
My apologies, you are correct. It was to acquire the shard, not the actual building of the city.
If you are serious about having a discussion, just throwing stuff out like that with absolutely no context can be very misleading. In your first paragraph you make it sound as if the ore, wood, stone, etc. one harvests magically goes from ones inventory to a bank. Resource nodes one can access from the safety of town are extremely limited and give very little, with timers of 3-hours before they can be used again. To gather resources, once MUST leave town. When you are out of town, good luck getting back with your harvest; it's a risky venture, less risky if you have clan members and friends around to watch your back.
I agree with you that using an enemy bank to take or put stuff in is rediculous. That should be changed. No argument.
The last paragraph about folks claiming to be hardcore leaves me in the dark. I didn't know there was some E-Core competition taking place. DFO is what it is, and the aspect of it most people love is its wide open nature, ability for players to pick their own friends and enemies, as opposed to most games that are Realm vs Realm, and that death has meaning, and isn't just a quick trip back to a bind point. I've outlined in a few threads/posts what the risks are. If they aren't meeting your desired level for danger to have fun in a game, then let us know when you find that game. I'd be interested to hear where you land.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
If you are serious about having a discussion, just throwing stuff out like that with absolutely no context can be very misleading. In your first paragraph you make it sound as if the ore, wood, stone, etc. one harvests magically goes from ones inventory to a bank. Resource nodes one can access from the safety of town are extremely limited and give very little, with timers of 3-hours before they can be used again. To gather resources, once MUST leave town. When you are out of town, good luck getting back with your harvest; it's a risky venture, less risky if you have clan members and friends around to watch your back.
I agree with you that using an enemy bank to take or put stuff in is rediculous. That should be changed. No argument.
The last paragraph about folks claiming to be hardcore leaves me in the dark. I didn't know there was some E-Core competition taking place. DFO is what it is, and the aspect of it most people love is its wide open nature, ability for players to pick their own friends and enemies, as opposed to most games that are Realm vs Realm, and that death has meaning, and isn't just a quick trip back to a bind point. I've outlined in a few threads/posts what the risks are. If they aren't meeting your desired level for danger to have fun in a game, then let us know when you find that game. I'd be interested to hear where you land.
-CC
Trust me once banks are localized darkfall will be a different game. While the resorces in a city are limited they do add up. when people do leave the city for resorces they 1st look for the closest bank, it can be a bank that happens to be in the wilderness or a unused or some random hamlet . Grab a load of materials and deposit into the closest bank, rinse and repeat. The risk is still not there. No trade routes , nothing. All is accociated with universal banking. Now just picture darkfall with localized banks. Oh and important resorces only found in ciertian parts of agon. Guilds and alliences will atucally have to travel far for their needs, set people to harvest and a good group of people to protect them from bandits, then escort them back to the city. Pirates and Bandits can actually be pirates and bandits. an economy will start to fourm. Trade routes will forum. There will be real risk to travel from one place to the other since your forced to carry your goods. Agon will be more chaotic, more sinister and even more immersive. Heck thats all im waiting for to change to give it a shot.
Now as for the reason i mention Hardcore alot, just look back 4 to 5 months ago at all the rabid fanboys claiming everyone else who plays other games are just a bunch of carebears and that dfo is the only hardcore game out there.
Every time someone mentioned a problem with a game, they were not hardcore enough. That has quelled down a bit.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
You make some good points.
Please keep in mind though that the harvesting and crafting have gone through some good changes. I mean at launch, you needed a macro program while you played the game just to save yourself from clicking a million times to gather stuff. Eventually AV put in a auto click so you only need to click once unless your stamina runs out. This last update included improvements to crafting items in terms of time. Imagine the first methods with what you suggest piled on top of it; people would have pulled what hair they had left out of their heads. So while I think yours ideas are good, I also think AV is being smart in its timing of when certain changes or features are made/added.
I remain boggled with how any one can play DFO and say there isn't enough risk. There wouldn't of been so many naked players if there was really no risk; and now that armor means more and lowbie weapons mean less, players are being forced to take more risk, or die very easily.
The HardCore stuff is boring, and understand where you're coming from. That said, let's be honest here; the vast majority of MMO players have never played an open ffa full loot game. It's difficult enough just to find a game that doesn't tell you who your enemies are, let alone offer any real risk to death. Very few games have any reasonable consequences for death, and that alone would turn off many players and lead them to complain about DFO for all sorts of reasons that may have nothing to do with the real one. I'm not suggesting this is true of those who complain here, as obviously there are those who love that type of ruleset but have issues with DFO; but it is true, well, for those it's true for ^^ lol.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
You make some good points.
Please keep in mind though that the harvesting and crafting have gone through some good changes. I mean at launch, you needed a macro program while you played the game just to save yourself from clicking a million times to gather stuff. Eventually AV put in a auto click so you only need to click once unless your stamina runs out. This last update included improvements to crafting items in terms of time. Imagine the first methods with what you suggest piled on top of it; people would have pulled what hair they had left out of their heads. So while I think yours ideas are good, I also think AV is being smart in its timing of when certain changes or features are made/added.
I remain boggled with how any one can play DFO and say there isn't enough risk. There wouldn't of been so many naked players if there was really no risk; and now that armor means more and lowbie weapons mean less, players are being forced to take more risk, or die very easily.
The HardCore stuff is boring, and understand where you're coming from. That said, let's be honest here; the vast majority of MMO players have never played an open ffa full loot game. It's difficult enough just to find a game that doesn't tell you who your enemies are, let alone offer any real risk to death. Very few games have any reasonable consequences for death, and that alone would turn off many players and lead them to complain about DFO for all sorts of reasons that may have nothing to do with the real one. I'm not suggesting this is true of those who complain here, as obviously there are those who love that type of ruleset but have issues with DFO; but it is true, well, for those it's true for ^^ lol.
-CC
Many things can be suggested to make it a better game.
Right now many people are complaining that each player ends up becoming a carbon copy of each other, while now extentions to spells were added, its a matter of time that someone makes up a build and everyone follows suit.
With a game with so many skills other rules should be applied to the game to actually make each character.
For example. If people would like to specilize in casting. Int can be a modifyer on which every 2 points of int reduce 1 str. Also raiding your magic skills high reduce the ability to use full plate gear. Thier dmg with spells can get a slight dmg increase at the price of a melee dmg decrease.
Plate armor should give a reduction in movement or take a high toll on stamina and only those who focus on melee weps and armor get a modifyer to counter the movement reduction and stamina loss. Ths means others can use plate but at a cost. 2 points in str can buff 3 points in sta and vit but lose 1 point in int and agi. losing 2 points in agi does cause a reduction of 1 point in vit and stam to balance it out.
People who focus in archery can get a slight movement but that doesnt give them the ability to sprint faster than other people when using leather armor or non full plate gear. While they will sprint at the same speed as everyone else they can get a bit of distance when not sprinting . 2 points of agi also buffs 1 point to vit n stam
now thats just thinkng out loud. The easy way would be if your skilling up melee every 2 points it reduces 1 point of archery and magic. In other words make some skills reduce others so people can specialize, yet have the other abilities, just not exceed at everything.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Blizzard doesn't allow the transfer because it is IMPOSSIBLE WITH DIFFERENT PUBLISHERS.
Unlike Darkfail, with the lying PR manager, who's just going to charge people for copy and pasting their information.
EDIT: Did anyone notice that the patch notes were smaller than the bullshit notice?
"Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it is to the one who endures that the final victory comes."
junzo316 - I respect not all players will have the same point of view, and that is what makes discussions and debates fun. The problem I'm having discussing this game with you is I don't think you ever played it, or if you did, know what you are talking about. The argument at the start of the game you reference had nothing to do with "City Building" that is resource heavy. It had to do with acquiring a scroll to capture a Clan Stone. There was a race on Day 1 & 2 for land grabs, and the complaints were towards those who may have expoited mobs with high gold drop rates, which allowed them to claim Clan Stones fast, when the guilds not exploiting had to obtain the gold the old fashioned way, and took longer to claim a stone.
Claiming a Clan Stone is only the start. You have to build the city, upgrade the city, repair the city. All of that takes huge resources, as does Sieging and defending a Citry.
-CC
Once again to everything you mentioned. All the people who were farming to get mats went thru no risk of losing them since everything is saved into a universal bank. There is NO risk involved. You get the shit, pop it in the bank rince and repeat.
Its the same for sieging. NO one takes siege hammers and other siege equipment to the city or the other proven useless hamlets with em. All they do is use the enemy bank. It was worse before when people would Siege, get to place of siege, run to the bank, log off, log back on to have an immunity timer to get their shit then attack. Now the timer is off but all it did was force the attackers to clean up the city , then pull out their equipment from the enemy bank to siege the clan stone.
Once again this is all about reward and NO risk.
Huge cluster of carebears getting into pvp claiming their hardcore cuz its an ffa full loot game. oh lets not forget they did lower the materials and money needed to make stuff so universal banking is going to make the game pointless to worry about losing shit. Oh and citys have everything you need, no need to venture outside to look for materials. Pointless.
While I am a strong proponent of localized banking and I do believe that it would increase the risk and lead to a better economy, I think you are making a rather broad generalization when you say the game currently has absolutely no risk at all due to the banking system.
The reality is, unless you've found a way to carry your bank around with you in your backpack with you, you are going to run into gankers who can kill you and take your stuff before you get back to a bank.
Again, just because materials are cheaper, it doesn't mean that they are free.
Granted, this game is not as hard on the players as EVE. But on the other hand, you have to remember: it's NOT EVE.
EVE in a fantasy setting would be an awesome game, but I never expected Darkfall to be EVE. Neither should you.
These huge expansion made many people rethink and resubscribe to Darkfall, the cties are more busy then ever and also roaming players and opportunities for PvP everywhere.
Great job on the expansion AV.
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