Originally posted by rohbshop PS i dont know how people are choosing Eve when its straight up point and click combat. No real skill involved, correct me if i'm wrong I mean if it were Freelancer style thats one thing, point and click sim is lame, unless your playing an rts.
If you think EVE requires no skill you're deluded.
True, it's not a question of twitch skills. But understanding ship configurations, when to engage and how to engage, what tactics to use, etc... it's one of the steepest learning curves in all of MMOG. There are many, many ways to effect a kill in EVE.
heh if youve played uo chances are youll never settle for level games like L2 and GW. I know i played uo for 3 years and i have the same problem as you - nothing compares to it. not the darnit levelling games with anime graphics. BUT there is hope - im beta testing WISH right now... not the best graphics but its the nearest thing to a modern UO that you can find out there. The devs post about 3-10 posts everyday in the beta boards and have a strong commitment to this game. for more info, checkout what the devs say http://www.mutablerealms.com/devJournal.html
How can it be UO when there's not even open-PvP. That's where the game falls flat on its face.
Thanks for all the replies everyone, been a lot of help. I have some research to do now, but I don't really care about graphics. Who want's shit that looks good, it's still shit. I care about gameplay 1st and foremost. I will probably check out shadowbane, but I have just one question, is it free for all, are there "good vs. evil" or is it like UO, everyone for evryone, but you can join guilds/clans what have you? Again, thanks for all the advice guys.
Thanks deides I'm gonna check it out, I'm always looking for new games that might interest me. Probably leaning more towards SB than L2, I've not heard good things about L2, and if I wanted a game just for gfx, I would stick w/ WoW. EvE online also sounds interesting, I'll just have to do some research when I get time. Thanks again.
How can it be UO when there's not even open-PvP. That's where the game falls flat on its face.
UO was never open ended, it always (at minimum) had towns you could run to and hide. But outside of the towns, it was completely open PvP (until they made Trammel a.k.a. newb world).
I remember back in UO b4 the different realms, it was crazy just trying to leave Britain, I swear the graveyard was actually the place to be, and there was PK fests all over the place, most days you were guaranteed to get ganked by 5-10 PK's hiding just off the road waiting for dumbasses like me who ran by themselves to go by, get ganked, and take their loot.
Well that's the thing, I like PvP, but I don't want to just start out, and not have any opportunity to gain skill. I love PvP, but I like there to be some safe havens, or places you can let your guard down some.
Basically I would rather have hardcore PvP than the carebear PvP WoW calls PvP. I like to be able to loot is the main thing, and be able to be looted. Everything else after that I can deal with. I don't see how someone can have PvP, but not allow even partial looting. It's funny in WoW, there is seriously no reward or consequence for living or dying in PvP...and the safe havens are a joke, there are too many of them, what ends up happening is that one side can attack in an area, but the other side can't, they have to wait to be attacked. So what ends up happening is that one person will be running around a group of 20, and the group is just waiting for that guy to attack so they can all gang rape him. Basically what ends up happening is because they don't have any loot, people just sit and camp dead bodies, if there was loot involved, they would be running to the bank to deposit their spoils of victory.
I just think it's sorry that people think looting is bad, it makes the game balanced. Without gaining something from winning, and your loser (potentially) losing something with defeat, it makes the whole game pointless from the start.
Honestly, try out shadowbane for the free trial and go from there. You are safe from level 1-22 and try to meet some cool people on "newb island" to help you out on mainland, try to hook up with a guild and you will be set, they can help you with any question and you can get into the pvp aspects of the game more quickly.
honestly you really shouldnt act so demeaning towards PvE or even use the term 'carebears' when your not even into the PvP aspect of PvP games. I'm not saying i dont understand where your coming from cuz i do, but the condescending attitude towards non PvP is abit hypocritical when taken that you dont really enjoy PvP much.
PS i dont know how people are choosing Eve when its straight up point and click combat. No real skill involved, correct me if i'm wrong I mean if it were Freelancer style thats one thing, point and click sim is lame, unless your playing an rts.
Alright, sorry if it sounded like I was ragging on PVE--- but I think if you read my post a second time, you'll see that I'm criticizing the people that want PVP games to be Counterstrike, rather than "PVP with a purpose".
As for the second part of your post, saying EVE PVP has no skill because there is no flight stick is like saying that there is no skill to chess because you can't make your pieces bludgeon your opponents pieces to death. Besides, flying a 3 mile long battleship like an F-16 seems kind of silly anyway.
EVE PVP has (in my oppinion) vastly more skill than any other MMORPG. I've seen groups of individuals beat an opposing fleet that had twice the number of pilots and hardware (both fleets had similar ship setups). And when it comes to warfare, it's not just about blasting one another to bits. There's also psychological warfare, reconnaissance, industrial support, and a lot more. I can confidently say that EVE takes PVP to an entirely new level that a lot of people don't recognize. "OMG, wheres my sword?!?! this sux" Okay...
Just thought i add a comment to argue that eve's pvp is not only for experienced players but can be done on day 1 of game play (albeit with a large IF). For Ship v. Ship combat i would agree that Eve takes time .. i have been playing since release and i wouldnt trust myself to go one on one; but fleet engagements are another story. A day one char can be very helpful to a fleet to run as scout, or the inevitable cannon fodder. Sounds lame to some im sure, but if all you want is pvp it can be done day 1.
As for needing Battleships or Tech II ships / equipment .. again that is a phalicy. Cheap frigates can be alot of fun, and useful; espcialy if deployed under a good commander, and with other capable pilots.
As for the notion that no real skill is needed, as its point and click combat, again, as others have notted, the skill comes in equipment choice, power management, target selection, knowledge of the enemies' ships-equipment-tactics, geographical deployment, your ships weakness, etc.. Knowledge will trump skills/eq most of the time. Twitch combat is alot of fun dont get me wrong, I played Descent 1 multiplayer for years and loved perfecting leading targets (56k modem lag), but if you think this is only way to have skill in combat then.. well your missing the bigger picture (which is cool .. not everyone can understand / implement strategy and tactics.. some people just have to be fast on the trigger and accurate on the sights.) Goes without saying if you think my argument is lame then EvE is definately not the game for you, although i would bet my student loan on the fact that given the right situation you would still have a blast with the "point and click" combat.
Comments
If you think EVE requires no skill you're deluded.
True, it's not a question of twitch skills. But understanding ship configurations, when to engage and how to engage, what tactics to use, etc... it's one of the steepest learning curves in all of MMOG. There are many, many ways to effect a kill in EVE.
I remember back in UO b4 the different realms, it was crazy just trying to leave Britain, I swear the graveyard was actually the place to be, and there was PK fests all over the place, most days you were guaranteed to get ganked by 5-10 PK's hiding just off the road waiting for dumbasses like me who ran by themselves to go by, get ganked, and take their loot.
If you really want to try some hardcore PvP, check out www.meridian59.com
Best PvP game ever. 99% about PVP.
www.meridian59.com
www.meridian59.com
Well that's the thing, I like PvP, but I don't want to just start out, and not have any opportunity to gain skill. I love PvP, but I like there to be some safe havens, or places you can let your guard down some.
Basically I would rather have hardcore PvP than the carebear PvP WoW calls PvP. I like to be able to loot is the main thing, and be able to be looted. Everything else after that I can deal with. I don't see how someone can have PvP, but not allow even partial looting. It's funny in WoW, there is seriously no reward or consequence for living or dying in PvP...and the safe havens are a joke, there are too many of them, what ends up happening is that one side can attack in an area, but the other side can't, they have to wait to be attacked. So what ends up happening is that one person will be running around a group of 20, and the group is just waiting for that guy to attack so they can all gang rape him. Basically what ends up happening is because they don't have any loot, people just sit and camp dead bodies, if there was loot involved, they would be running to the bank to deposit their spoils of victory.
I just think it's sorry that people think looting is bad, it makes the game balanced. Without gaining something from winning, and your loser (potentially) losing something with defeat, it makes the whole game pointless from the start.
PS i dont know how people are choosing Eve when its straight up point and click combat. No real skill involved, correct me if i'm wrong
I mean if it were Freelancer style thats one thing, point and click sim is lame, unless your playing an rts.
Alright, sorry if it sounded like I was ragging on PVE--- but I think if you read my post a second time, you'll see that I'm criticizing the people that want PVP games to be Counterstrike, rather than "PVP with a purpose".
As for the second part of your post, saying EVE PVP has no skill because there is no flight stick is like saying that there is no skill to chess because you can't make your pieces bludgeon your opponents pieces to death. Besides, flying a 3 mile long battleship like an F-16 seems kind of silly anyway.
EVE PVP has (in my oppinion) vastly more skill than any other MMORPG. I've seen groups of individuals beat an opposing fleet that had twice the number of pilots and hardware (both fleets had similar ship setups). And when it comes to warfare, it's not just about blasting one another to bits. There's also psychological warfare, reconnaissance, industrial support, and a lot more. I can confidently say that EVE takes PVP to an entirely new level that a lot of people don't recognize. "OMG, wheres my sword?!?! this sux" Okay...
Just thought i add a comment to argue that eve's pvp is not only for experienced players but can be done on day 1 of game play (albeit with a large IF). For Ship v. Ship combat i would agree that Eve takes time .. i have been playing since release and i wouldnt trust myself to go one on one; but fleet engagements are another story. A day one char can be very helpful to a fleet to run as scout, or the inevitable cannon fodder. Sounds lame to some im sure, but if all you want is pvp it can be done day 1.
As for needing Battleships or Tech II ships / equipment .. again that is a phalicy. Cheap frigates can be alot of fun, and useful; espcialy if deployed under a good commander, and with other capable pilots.
As for the notion that no real skill is needed, as its point and click combat, again, as others have notted, the skill comes in equipment choice, power management, target selection, knowledge of the enemies' ships-equipment-tactics, geographical deployment, your ships weakness, etc.. Knowledge will trump skills/eq most of the time. Twitch combat is alot of fun dont get me wrong, I played Descent 1 multiplayer for years and loved perfecting leading targets (56k modem lag), but if you think this is only way to have skill in combat then.. well your missing the bigger picture (which is cool .. not everyone can understand / implement strategy and tactics.. some people just have to be fast on the trigger and accurate on the sights.) Goes without saying if you think my argument is lame then EvE is definately not the game for you, although i would bet my student loan on the fact that given the right situation you would still have a blast with the "point and click" combat.