If it is red it is dead? PvP Etiquette?

Tenken29 · July 2009

"If it is red it is dead." Not sure if any of you have heard this phrase, it refers to if you see ANY enemy player (in red) that you will kill him no matter what the circumstance. No matter what level or circumstance or anything.

So my question to you is do you follow this policy or do you have some kind of manors or etiquette.? Granted I know the mere idea of a pvp etiquette may sound like complete and under retardation to some, it is a very old notion. So I guess i'll draw up a few examples to get my point across.

If you see a group of lowbies do you gank them? Even if they provide zero points? This example I find interesting because I've passed up killing certain players and I end up seeing the exact same player kill my alt.

If you're wandering around and see two groups fighting are you going to rush in and addon to the fight? Does it matter if it is a two guilds fighting as opposed to a pug does it not matter to you? (Some people would addon to pugs fighting but not guilds).

If you see two individuals fighting in the abyss and you're with a few friends, do you bum rush the guy fighting a 1v1?

Few things to note. I am aware this is a PVP game. People kill people. I also realize that people can do whatever they want, that's not what this is about. Just wondering if any of you ever avoid adding onto fights when you see other people fighting. Once again this is a very old practice which I have not seen for such a long time. Back in the day it was not uncommon to see guilds respect other guilds fighting and not join in till after. I feel like part of this concept dying would be linked to battlegrounds being crossed together in WoW. You hardly ever see the same person twice in a bg. Maybe this will change since Aion will focus more on the actual servers where people will gain reputations.

Ive known players that show this "respect" (i use the term loosely) but obviously will only do it if the same respect is shown to them. Ive also known players that just kill anything in site. Call me old fashion or missing out on opportunities , but if I see two people fighting a 1v1 I would like to think i'd let them finish it first. Samething if I saw two guilds fighting. Hopefully they will show the same respect to me.

That means I plan to show some sort of respect for other people fighting at first. Am I living in a dream world ? Most likely.

Just wondering what you all think .

markoraos · July 2009

Well, if it's a RvR game then you have a DUTY to kill the enemy and hinder their progress in any way possible, including ganking ofc. Otherwise you're a traitor against your own allies, your faction. The game is built that way and there is no point in sabotaging it - if ganking is an integral part of the game experience and it is taken into account at the basic level of design then you'd be doing the game harm by showing "mercy". Actually I would be pretty cross if my opponents wouldn't play all the dirty tricks against me because they would be sabotaging the game and my experience of it otherwise.

It would be like playing Risk boardgame with somebody who doesn't want to attack because he's a nice guy or a pacifist. He can keep it private but when he is playing the game he has to follow the rules and get into the spirit of it because otherwise he'd spoil the fun for others. That's what games are for - to do things you otherwise probably wouldn't... and that's especially true for RPGs - role playing games.

However I hold this true only for RvR and PvP - oriented games. In PvE-centered ones like WoW I can stop and consider whether I'm going to ambush/gank someone or not. Consequently I get much much more cross for being ambushed in WoW than in a PvP game like WAR. I never ever felt abused in any way when killed in a proper RvR game such as DAoC or Warhammer, no matter how "unfairly" - frankly I get more angry when some opponent for whatever reason declines to attack me and use my weak moment. It's like he's putting me down in one way and breaking my immersion in the other.

Aion is a RvR (or PvPvE) game so I'd consider rude any kind of carebearism towards the opposing faction. Friendly rivalry, banter at the server boards etc are all ok and most welcome but when you're within the game you have to follow its rules - and in the case of Aion it is very clear what it means.

.. and as for the "guild duels"... well I see it as a form of fraternizing with the enemy. Not saying that this should be banned but guilds doing that shouldn't be cross if someone crashes their party. This game is not guild warfare but faction warfare - therefore it is not a private matter for guilds and their egos - this is war and the whole faction is on the line. Your whole faction is your "super guild" and everybody is your ally. Guild duelling would be like germans and allies in WWII holding a fair "duel" between two divisions and then getting cross when someone crashed in their "fun". That's treasonous behaviour man.

NBlitz · July 2009

In Aion it's kill on sight. If you don't kill him and he doesn't do anything to you, you can bet at least one of his "friends" will.

Pyrostasis · July 2009

from my days in DAOC if we saw 2 folks having a 1 on 1 we left them alone, same thing if we saw 2 groups fighting. We enjoyed having nice fair fights, and tried to let others have theirs.

It was rather amusing when we'd be fighting another group, have another group of our realm assjam, we'd pull off, the group we were fighting would kill the group that hit, they'd rest up and rez real fast, then we'd go back tof ighting.

But it all depends on your play style and your goals. Some folks are just there to kill regardless of odds, numbers, etc. Some of us like a fight where the opponent actually has a chance.

ronan32 · July 2009

Kill or be killed. I care not what level you are, if your names in red im going to kill you.

Palebane · July 2009

You can try.

linren · July 2009

Well, the saying "if it is red it is dead" was really used in games with free for all open PK. Aion is more of a RvR setting type of PvP, meaning your enemies are the other races only. They are all red if I remember correctly, so the saying still applies, but the meaning is slightly different.

FastTx · July 2009

PvP Etiquette is a synonym for foolishness. KOS is how it's going to be. If A higher level player kills me I understand and I'll do the same to the little guys.

The real question is do you really go out and seek killing players 20 levels below yourself. The answer is I don't, but if I see one by happenstance I'll fight. There is a less likely chance lower level players will be killing mobs 20 levels below them or level 30's will be participating in fortress fights.

You'll find the top ranked PvPers in Aion will only fight if there is a 100% chance of winning because they can't afford to lose.

Loke666 · July 2009

I usually only kills someone that annoys me in any way in a all against all PvP. If the game have factions I kill the enemys.

If I see a low level being ganked I usually make the bother to help him out.

Killing everyone that is weaker to me seems just wrong. However even small things can make me kill someone, like having a stupid name or whining in the chat.

But PvP ettiquette have never been used by everyone, many games had always have a lot more griefers than people with any kind of etiquette. That is the reason most games have some kind of penalty system. I liked the old Lineage system myself where you only could attack anyone you were in war with.

In real life there never existed a place where it was a good idea to kill anyone you saw and the penalties are stupid in games. If you had a class with knights or guards who actually got rewards for killing outlaws the system would work well but watchtowers or npc guards just sucks.

For Aion however the fact is that there is a war going on and killing weaker persons on the other side is logical and what is happening in all wars. If an enemy of lower level gets close he will kill lower level players himself so there it is ok. That doesn't make it right to grief the player but it is a war.

supbro · July 2009

The interesting thing about PvP in Aion is you don't see the enemies character level only their rank. You can make estimate on their level based on the mobs their grinding or gear their wearing (but that can be re-skinned), maybe. This will most likely mean kill on sight for most people i think because of that "unknown" factor.

Sovrath · July 2009

If they are significantly lower I won't bother unless we are at war with their clan.

In Aion? Not sure since we are always at war with the enemy. Might just let them be unless they attack. I mean, regardless of whether I kill them they can still let others know about our whereabouts and killing them won't get me anything if they are too low.

However, we'll see.

craynlon · July 2009

hmm since this is in the aion part of the forum i think that the racial hatred between elyos and asmodians justify any action in war. of course you can always roleplay the exception and since both races have honor as a value in their lore choosing far weaker enemies deliberatly may not suit every honorable warrior. hunting in areas where the hunter doesnt fight (pve) challinging prey might also prevent the honorable hunter from deliberatly choosing these areas.

then as in the history of men as well there will be opportunists that dont care about the honor of their tribe and simple other lowlives that go the easy route for a kill.

Tenken29 · July 2009

Hey guys, nice to see your thoughts and opinions so far.

Just wanted to say it's not like I disapprove of killing weaker enemies, I just rather not grossly out number someone if it is a small scale fight. As in if one person was fighting another I'd be rather hesistant to charge him with 6 people UNTIL he is done with his fight. Of course it is suitational.

And as for the ettiquette it's not like I ever expect many people at all to do it, but was just wondering on how you guys thought about it. Of course this game is a faction vs faction game, but it makes me think in a perfect suitation if there was a group vs group fight it would be very kind if another group saw them they'd wait till it was done. I'm not saying this is practical or that everyone should do it , but it was very humbling when groups in daoc would do that for you. I infact thought this whole concept was crazy until people started performing it for me.

Fungo · July 2009

Usually in PvP games i start out with a nice guy approach, playing the game without ruining peoples fun by ganking them or whatever. But any kind of 'honor' or 'etiquette' in these kind of games just seem too few and far between, for me to bother anymore.

So for this game I'll be adopting the 'If it's red, it's dead' mindset.

I just hope that this game wont turn into the massive zerg fest that warhammer was/is

linren · July 2009

Originally posted by FastTx

PvP Etiquette is a synonym for foolishness. KOS is how it's going to be. If A higher level player kills me I understand and I'll do the same to the little guys.
The real question is do you really go out and seek killing players 20 levels below yourself. The answer is I don't, but if I see one by happenstance I'll fight. There is a less likely chance lower level players will be killing mobs 20 levels below them or level 30's will be participating in fortress fights.
You'll find the top ranked PvPers in Aion will only fight if there is a 100% chance of winning because they can't afford to lose.

I always knew the top ranks of the PvP gets intense and very risky, but I find having to run away that much a bit ironic from a PvP point of view. We'll have to see how NCsoft change in the 1.5 to see what will happen to the Abyss as a whole.

Ephimero · July 2009

One thing Aion doesn't get much credit for is the power of intimidation, you never know your oponent's level, add it to a death penalty and you get a regulated PvP.

In this game, there are systems helping the intimidation, such as the gear swapping feature, some people buy abyss armors, placing their skins on lower level equipment in order to sell them overpriced, people buy it, because it provides a safer leveling proccess in the abyss, and also makes oponent run beforehand.

Nobody is willing to risk their abyss points mindlessly after reaching certain ranks, so there's a proccess of thinking before jumping over someone.

FastTx · July 2009

Originally posted by Ephimero

One thing Aion doesn't get much credit for is the power of intimidation, you never know your oponent's level, add it to a death penalty and you get a regulated PvP.
In this game, there are systems helping the intimidation, such as the gear swapping feature, some people buy abyss armors, placing their skins on lower level equipment in order to sell them overpriced, people buy it, because it provides a safer leveling proccess in the abyss, and also makes oponent run beforehand.
Nobody is willing to risk their abyss points mindlessly after reaching certain ranks, so there's a proccess of thinking before jumping over someone.

People will know your level. They will alt tab, look up your name on Aion Armory and know exactly what gear and level you are and deduce from that whether to gank you. Of course I'm not sure we will get such a website in the western market but Korea has it.

Sovrath · July 2009

Originally posted by FastTx

Originally posted by Ephimero

One thing Aion doesn't get much credit for is the power of intimidation, you never know your oponent's level, add it to a death penalty and you get a regulated PvP.
In this game, there are systems helping the intimidation, such as the gear swapping feature, some people buy abyss armors, placing their skins on lower level equipment in order to sell them overpriced, people buy it, because it provides a safer leveling proccess in the abyss, and also makes oponent run beforehand.
Nobody is willing to risk their abyss points mindlessly after reaching certain ranks, so there's a proccess of thinking before jumping over someone.

People will know your level. They will alt tab, look up your name on Aion Armory and know exactly what gear and level you are and deduce from that whether to gank you. Of course I'm not sure we will get such a website in the western market but Korea has it.

I think you can hide your gear so most likely it will transfer to a website showing your character.

linren · July 2009

Originally posted by FastTx

Originally posted by Ephimero

One thing Aion doesn't get much credit for is the power of intimidation, you never know your oponent's level, add it to a death penalty and you get a regulated PvP.
In this game, there are systems helping the intimidation, such as the gear swapping feature, some people buy abyss armors, placing their skins on lower level equipment in order to sell them overpriced, people buy it, because it provides a safer leveling proccess in the abyss, and also makes oponent run beforehand.
Nobody is willing to risk their abyss points mindlessly after reaching certain ranks, so there's a proccess of thinking before jumping over someone.

People will know your level. They will alt tab, look up your name on Aion Armory and know exactly what gear and level you are and deduce from that whether to gank you. Of course I'm not sure we will get such a website in the western market but Korea has it.

Well, can't expect people to simply just play a game these days. People want an edge, and they will do anything to get it. If the Koreans have it, the chances are someone will come up with something similar here. Game companies are always one step if not more behind these types of things. We'll know for sure a few months into Aion's launch, but these types of "edge" really kills alot of the gameplay value.

Ephimero · July 2009

Originally posted by FastTx

Originally posted by Ephimero

One thing Aion doesn't get much credit for is the power of intimidation, you never know your oponent's level, add it to a death penalty and you get a regulated PvP.
In this game, there are systems helping the intimidation, such as the gear swapping feature, some people buy abyss armors, placing their skins on lower level equipment in order to sell them overpriced, people buy it, because it provides a safer leveling proccess in the abyss, and also makes oponent run beforehand.
Nobody is willing to risk their abyss points mindlessly after reaching certain ranks, so there's a proccess of thinking before jumping over someone.

People will know your level. They will alt tab, look up your name on Aion Armory and know exactly what gear and level you are and deduce from that whether to gank you. Of course I'm not sure we will get such a website in the western market but Korea has it.

alt tabbing in the abyss/rift might not be a good idea 90% of the time :P

Channce · July 2009

Originally posted by Pyrostasis

from my days in DAOC if we saw 2 folks having a 1 on 1 we left them alone, same thing if we saw 2 groups fighting. We enjoyed having nice fair fights, and tried to let others have theirs.
It was rather amusing when we'd be fighting another group, have another group of our realm assjam, we'd pull off, the group we were fighting would kill the group that hit, they'd rest up and rez real fast, then we'd go back tof ighting.
But it all depends on your play style and your goals. Some folks are just there to kill regardless of odds, numbers, etc. Some of us like a fight where the opponent actually has a chance.

bull! if those ppl wanted a one on one fight they should have found some remote corner of the game or better yet, just played an xbox game, not a MMO! if its red its dead, i dont care what. Fair fight? lol, good one. Yep, i remember the day...we saw a firefight in the the jungle, we always had our spotter make sure it was fair before our squad jumped in..yep...ROFL

abyss610 · July 2009

yeah for me atleast, wich is odd i normally won't attack lowbies ever in any other mmo. but in Aion all players lvlvs are ??? so you just have no idea what lvl they are. so its just best to go on the offencive or take the chance of them killing you when you're back is turned. as others have stated all you see is their rank.

Sovrath · July 2009

Originally posted by Channce

Fair fight? lol, good one. Yep, i remember the day...we saw a firefight in the the jungle, we always had our spotter make sure it was fair before our squad jumped in..yep...ROFL

channce, we are talking about a game. Not a real war.

Kenaoshi · July 2009

well, wheni know its a lowl lvl i personaly let it go, dont fell it like a chalenge, and i dont bitch when i get killed by a high lvl char, its the game mechanics, deal with it.

about aion, i tryied chinese and i had some vietnam flashback from lineage2( Dark Avenger 4-evar =D ), looking for a game with more consequences for someones acts.

Silvermink · July 2009

In most games I'd take a carebear approach. In Aion, It's kill first. The person you see may be a scout, or out to grief your side's lowbies.

Warsong · July 2009

Originally posted by Tenken29

"If it is red it is dead." Not sure if any of you have heard this phrase, it refers to if you see ANY enemy player (in red) that you will kill him no matter what the circumstance. No matter what level or circumstance or anything.
So my question to you is do you follow this policy or do you have some kind of manors or etiquette.? Granted I know the mere idea of a pvp etiquette may sound like complete and under retardation to some, it is a very old notion. So I guess i'll draw up a few examples to get my point across.
If you see a group of lowbies do you gank them? Even if they provide zero points? This example I find interesting because I've passed up killing certain players and I end up seeing the exact same player kill my alt.
If you're wandering around and see two groups fighting are you going to rush in and addon to the fight? Does it matter if it is a two guilds fighting as opposed to a pug does it not matter to you? (Some people would addon to pugs fighting but not guilds).
If you see two individuals fighting in the abyss and you're with a few friends, do you bum rush the guy fighting a 1v1?
Few things to note. I am aware this is a PVP game. People kill people. I also realize that people can do whatever they want, that's not what this is about. Just wondering if any of you ever avoid adding onto fights when you see other people fighting. Once again this is a very old practice which I have not seen for such a long time. Back in the day it was not uncommon to see guilds respect other guilds fighting and not join in till after. I feel like part of this concept dying would be linked to battlegrounds being crossed together in WoW. You hardly ever see the same person twice in a bg. Maybe this will change since Aion will focus more on the actual servers where people will gain reputations.
Ive known players that show this "respect" (i use the term loosely) but obviously will only do it if the same respect is shown to them. Ive also known players that just kill anything in site. Call me old fashion or missing out on opportunities , but if I see two people fighting a 1v1 I would like to think i'd let them finish it first. Samething if I saw two guilds fighting. Hopefully they will show the same respect to me.
That means I plan to show some sort of respect for other people fighting at first. Am I living in a dream world ? Most likely.
Just wondering what you all think .

I pass them up since it's a no gain (no points, no skill built in killing them). Now if I have passed them up and then they turn around and gank me on an alt (lowbie to them) I put them and possibly any of their guild members (if any) on my personal KOS list no matter what level. And if the guild inquires about why, then I tell them why respectfully and allow an opportunity for the matter to be resolved. If then I am further disrespected then I turn it up and will accept nothing less than a formal apology or bribe (<-- piratelord). It's not my job to police other guilds members and any guild with a good leader/officers can easily resolve this type of issue.

Otherwise red is pretty much dead...it is the enemy and PVP is why I play. And without any preset deals or requests I have agreed to I am here to kill players that can defend themselves with game mechanics or wit or both.

If an environment offers pvp dangers then you better prepare yourself for those dangers or don't get butthurt and expect reprieve. I thrive in dangerous pve areas that pvp is allowed in while I am PVEing because I stay aware...part of the fun and challenge for me. If some can't handle this type of game then there are safer and simpler games out there..enjoy.

Other situations, 2 guilds fighting war, pve boss's etc I leave all that open to allow a request for me to cease fire if respectfully handled or bribed (<---piratelord). Sometimes/Usually this is a situation that may only present itself after an engagement. But since I am there to kill players (it's why I pay my money for that game) I don't ask anyone if they want me to leave them alone before they are in my sights...if they want to make deals then it's their obligation, not mine.

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If it is red it is dead? PvP Etiquette?

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If it is red it is dead? PvP Etiquette?

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