Originally posted by Mardy Originally posted by Greenie Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.
Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time". After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know. And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.
So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time. I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.
This is so unfortunately sad Mardy. I think im a pretty good player, I have made my share of mistakes, like everyone does. We're far from perfect. Clearly you do not hate people for making mistakes, but you'll alienate yourself, your other friends, and the rest of a community to prevent 'possibly' having a bad experience? I respect your decision either way, but you could meet someone like me. We could be friends and that would increase your friends list and thereby giving you more options to your majority playstyle, 80% grouping.
Cutting out the rest of the community is absolutely antisociality. A real shame to lump people together. Those who make mistakes, people who are just evident jerks by their behaviour, and potential good gamers who could be good friends too.
Originally posted by Greenie Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.
Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time". After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know. And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.
So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time. I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.
This is the part I think where solo and group lobbyists get confused and tense. Just because your choices are un- or antisocial in nature does not make them wrong. It's your choice, I'd never try to take that away from you.
Take a look at the definitions of anti-social and solo
Anti social is pretty self explanatory: unwilling to associate with people. hostile towards others. opposed to the principles on which society is constituted.
In particualr on solo #'s 5 - 7 - 9- 11 - and 14. None of these include the words "with others" and it also states "without the usual equipment" and "not combined with equal parts"
Play alone, without usual equipment , and one part does not equal all the parts combined. I found that interesting.
Not getting the same gear, not grouping because strangers are idiots, upset that groups of people get more than one individual will, all of these are the core of the soloer's arguments yet they deny antisocial behavior.
I don't care if you're anti-social, more power to you. But be honest about it, you don't need to apologize for it, and lastly if you'd just admit it, we could all be discussing our views/opinions/desires for possible solutions to compromise so we're all pretty happy. But that means you must be willing to accept the social principle of compromise.
Yes. I do seriously think this site is representative of MMO players everywhere. When any serious poll is taken, on any subject, it usually takes groups of people with differing backgrounds and poses the question. Then its taken with some limit of -/+ or under/over.
This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.
A valid survey requires an unbiased sampling. Any poll from a site like this is subject to self selection bias. . Any concusion based on the poll about the overall MMO population is suspect at best.
It takes 1 person to start a thread. When its important to discuss and reach out to your fellow gamers, you start a topic. There are a multitude of voices that have weighed in on this debate. Soloing ruining MMOs is not exactly my train of thought, but it starts a debate. The creator steps out and states their opinion w/any facts that may be present, and sparks fly. Then when it calms down a real passionately intelligent(hopefully) debate takes over.
Dogpiling? I havent seen any supposed dogpile. I think the dialoge has been fairly even sided. If anything, the pro-soloers have packed up and left, realizing this isnt just a pushover sliver of gamers. We have several valid points. Dodging them, or pretending they do not exist is callous. Many of us respect the soloer. We arent trying to strip you guys/gals of any deserved playstyle. Every group does have its fringe element. Those fringe 100% group/soloers arent driving this debate. I, like many others, have clearly stated we represent the viewpoint that more than enough gamers are pro-group and we'd really like to see a game focused on this playstlye. Not FORCED, but focused. We're concerned that if the focus is misappropriated evenly or too solo heavy, it devalues grouping. IF the game is good, many gamers will play it and it will be a success. You have stated an opinion that there are enough players to support a strongly group focused game. The actual support for this opinion has not been supplied.
I would claim that if grouping rewards must be better than solo to make grouping a success then the problem is in group play.
There have been fair number of MMO where the focus has been on group play throughout the game. Some have done well some have have not. Developers in some of the earlier MMOs have been flat out antagonistic toward the soloer. The number of MMOs that give consistant rewards and content through the life of the game to the solo player are nonexistant. Until such games exist there is going to continue to be a large push for solo content.
Like it or not the games that are currently being produced are going to be hybrid games. Jack of all trades master of none. People will play in the game style they find most enjoyable and that style will be dominate such games. If this happens to be solo play then that is what the customer of these games has decided. Make a list of names? Dont be dopey. You go read the thread. It speaks for itself. You're wrong on this and you think by wasting time that it somehow helps your zealous fringe stance. While you're at it, go read the multiple sites and multiple threads all over the place that discuss this exact issue, and then you count em. Im satisfied knowing I, unlike you, have read all these threads, response, by response, by respone.
Plus, why am I not being dogpiled, like you imagined happening to others? I, again unlike you, have respect for all gamers and their playstyles. We're all gamers, and trying to diminish one group or another to advance your own soloist agenda is bullishly feeble.
Yeah, again Cephus, try to discount my validity by labelling it 'whining'. Try to debate with some class eventually. Lets muddy the water to try and get us off point. Like someone already stated, we're not gonna tell you shit. You dont want to play games with anyone. You think their stupid and shallow. Remember? Yeah, you're on record. Developers are working as we speak on projects with multiple frameworks. If the game is good, we will play it!
I hammered you on points and you post what you think will erode the discussion. Then put words into the mouths of the opposition to fit your commentary. Your second favorite is to blab about nonsense while totally ignoring reality. Step aside, or keep getting run over, cause your frivolous conduct isnt helping your neglectful viewpoint.
You have stated an opinion that there are enough players to support a strongly group focused game. The actual support for this opinion has not been supplied.
Considering that one key point soloers make that WoW the most successful MMO to date is all about group content at endgame that garners some support that a group focused game can work can it not? Also Final Fantasy has been continually pointed to as support for this but it is near impossible to find current subscription rates after 2007
There have been fair number of MMO where the focus has been on group play throughout the game. Some have done well some have have not. Developers in some of the earlier MMOs have been flat out antagonistic toward the soloer. So if some have done well, than a group focus game can and/or has succeeded. Thank you for the admiss... clarification. A) The number of MMOs that give consistant rewards and content through the life of the game to the solo player are nonexistant. Until such games exist there is going to continue to be a large push for solo content.
Like it or not the games that are currently being produced are going to be hybrid games. Jack of all trades master of none. People will play in the game style they find most enjoyable and that style will be dominate such games. If this happens to be solo play then that is what the customer of these games has decided. Points A and B somewhat contradict each other. First you say that consistent solo rewards are non existent but then current games will currently be hybrids. Even if there is not "consistent solo" rewards that implies that group's are not consistently rewarded either.
Yes. I do seriously think this site is representative of MMO players everywhere. When any serious poll is taken, on any subject, it usually takes groups of people with differing backgrounds and poses the question. Then its taken with some limit of -/+ or under/over.
This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.
A valid survey requires an unbiased sampling. Any poll from a site like this is subject to self selection bias. . Any concusion based on the poll about the overall MMO population is suspect at best. Thats what a margin of error is for, -/+. Its not gonna be exact. Who should we poll about MMO's? People who eat cheesburgers? People who have green cars? You ask MMO players and you get an answer. I dont ask do you or do you not like Ulitma Online, cause that doesnt answer my question. Im pretty much WTF on this.
Every group does have its fringe element. Those fringe 100% group/soloers arent driving this debate. I, like many others, have clearly stated we represent the viewpoint that more than enough gamers are pro-group and we'd really like to see a game focused on this playstyle. Not FORCED, but focused. We're concerned that if the focus is misappropriated evenly or too solo heavy, it devalues grouping. IF the game is good, many gamers will play it and it will be a success. You have stated an opinion that there are enough players to support a strongly group focused game. The actual support for this opinion has not been supplied.
We have plenty of previous games that answer to this. What does it take, 10 million? Ive read 100's, likely 1000's of gamers input, and if the damn game is good, there is plenty to support a group focused game. Ive read 100's of soloists input. With your simple mind I should say thats all there is!! 100's, not enough to warrant a soloist haven?? Prove it! Prove it! Foolish. Read the threads. Im not tryin to sell anyone on Everquest as it is today, cause clearly there arent millions playing it. This thread and many other represent that the need is there, whoever does it right will easily prove it. I would claim that if grouping rewards must be better than solo to make grouping a success then the problem is in group play.
Whatever you think. I didnt say Jack Shit about grouping rewards. Prove it! Prove it! Right? Quote me or just piss off into your own opinion post. Gear debate is another thread. There have been fair number of MMO where the focus has been on group play throughout the game. Some have done well some have have not. Developers in some of the earlier MMOs have been flat out antagonistic toward the soloer. It needs to be looked at. I agree with this. Soloers deserve their multiplayer haven. Im sure they'll enjoy the hell out of it. I'll enjoy having a groupers haven(adding multiplayer here seemed redundant, im just saying). Now you say some have done well, some have not. Make up your mind. I have no proof of point cause I dont have 10million names in my back pocket. Yet, now some group games have done well, hmmmm. The number of MMOs that give consistant rewards and content through the life of the game to the solo player are nonexistant. Until such games exist there is going to continue to be a large push for solo content.
No arguement. Developers ATTENTION: Please make soloist haven so that MMO's can continue to supply all playstyles properly! Quite frankly, im tired of fucking up soloist gameplay, and im quite tired of soloists fucking up mine. EASY. (maybe vulgar, but still easy) Like it or not the games that are currently being produced are going to be hybrid games. Jack of all trades master of none. People will play in the game style they find most enjoyable and that style will be dominate such games. If this happens to be solo play then that is what the customer of these games has decided. They'll mostly all die a fiery desolate death too. Soloists will come in play it all out and say adios. Groupers will come and not find anyone grouping and say adios. Glad you've put that to rest for us Nostradamus. Pack it up groupers, kdkirmse just fortold the future of MMO dominance. Nothing to see here, its over for us. kdkirmse just solved it. Debate over I guess, nothing is gonna change, same ole' junk failures to look forward too. Man, am I glad you came along to help solve this.
Start reading the whole discussion or just leave now. Jumping in 100's of posts into the discussion and drop your ill-informed opinions is absurd. Comment on the OP or just GTFO. I wont be disparaged by prattle.
You have stated an opinion that there are enough players to support a strongly group focused game. The actual support for this opinion has not been supplied.
Considering that one key point soloers make that WoW the most successful MMO to date is all about group content at endgame that garners some support that a group focused game can work can it not? And the group players complain that WOW is too solo focused. Also Final Fantasy has been continually pointed to as support for this but it is near impossible to find current subscription rates after 2007 FFXI has had a rather steady population over the years. The question about FFXI is if its success is because of group focus or inspite of it. FFXI is like EQ1 one of early MMOs and still has a big following due being first. The final fantasy franchise is still being extended and is very popular. Personally the style of group focus in FFXI convinced me that too much group focus can make for poor game play. There have been fair number of MMO where the focus has been on group play throughout the game. Some have done well some have have not. Developers in some of the earlier MMOs have been flat out antagonistic toward the soloer. So if some have done well, than a group focus game can and/or has succeeded. Thank you for the admiss... clarification. These games still exist so any new game must also compete with them. If someone insists on group focused play they already have an option. Given how much more expensive making a new MMO has become creating a competitor to an existing population may be impossible. A) The number of MMOs that give consistant rewards and content through the life of the game to the solo player are nonexistant. Until such games exist there is going to continue to be a large push for solo content.
Like it or not the games that are currently being produced are going to be hybrid games. Jack of all trades master of none. People will play in the game style they find most enjoyable and that style will be dominate such games. If this happens to be solo play then that is what the customer of these games has decided. Points A and B somewhat contradict each other. First you say that consistent solo rewards are non existent but then current games will currently be hybrids. Even if there is not "consistent solo" rewards that implies that group's are not consistently rewarded either. The group focused and solo focused player just has to live with game play that does not focus on their niche. The players that will be best served are the ones that take advantage of both play styles.
This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.
A valid survey requires an unbiased sampling. Any poll from a site like this is subject to self selection bias. . Any concusion based on the poll about the overall MMO population is suspect at best.
Thats what a margin of error is for, -/+. Its not gonna be exact. Who should we poll about MMO's? People who eat cheesburgers? People who have green cars? You ask MMO players and you get an answer. I dont ask do you or do you not like Ulitma Online, cause that doesnt answer my question. Im pretty much WTF on this
That is because you don't look for real research. Here is a link of MMORPG research done by Nick Yee, who has research in this space extensive, on the subject of what MMO players want. His sampling is a lot BETTER and BIGGER than looking at a few people on forum threads. And you don't have numbers (you mention margin of errors, what are they? give me the numbers) .. while he does.
This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.
A valid survey requires an unbiased sampling. Any poll from a site like this is subject to self selection bias. . Any concusion based on the poll about the overall MMO population is suspect at best. Thats what a margin of error is for, -/+. Its not gonna be exact. Who should we poll about MMO's? People who eat cheesburgers? People who have green cars? You ask MMO players and you get an answer. I dont ask do you or do you not like Ulitma Online, cause that doesnt answer my question. Im pretty much WTF on this That is because you don't look for real research. Here is a link of MMORPG research done by Nick Yee, who has research in this space extensive, on the subject of what MMO players want. His sampling is a lot BETTER and BIGGER than looking at a few people on forum threads. And you don't have numbers (you mention margin of errors, what are they? give me the numbers) .. while he does. http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001630.php Quest content is ranked #1 of what MMO players want. SOLO content is #3. Social tools is #10 & Grouping is #12. If you look at the percentages, Quest/SOLO > grouping by almost a 2 to 1 margin. There is your data.
And grouping is ranked # 12..It just shows grouping is not so great...
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
Considering that one key point soloers make that WoW the most successful MMO to date is all about group content at endgame that garners some support that a group focused game can work can it not? And the group players complain that WOW is too solo focused. Ahh, but group players complain that the first 79 levels and the leveling system or too solo focused. We tend to be specific about what our complaints are. Such as solo based questing is aggravating and boring to me which is the model for leveling nowadays. Where as soloer's are complaining across the board at the game in general OR the endgame raids. Tell me 79 levels of play or 1 level of play which has more content? This is not even including noncombat related gameplay that is solo. FFXI has had a rather steady population over the years. The question about FFXI is if its success is because of group focus or inspite of it. FFXI is like EQ1 one of early MMOs and still has a big following due being first. The final fantasy franchise is still being extended and is very popular. Personally the style of group focus in FFXI convinced me that too much group focus can make for poor game play. Here you are only speculating. This does not add to nor detract that a group based game is successful TODAY.
Also in your link you provided, you do realize his sample for those percentages was 500 people right?
Myself, I run in DDO, if I can't find a group I go solo. I do quests on all levels from Solo to Elite by myself. Running higher levels alone, just takes planning and strategy. I don't see the delema, solo or group, all the same to me. Running in group just makes it easier and faster for me to get it done.
Myself, I run in DDO, if I can't find a group I go solo. I do quests on all levels from Solo to Elite by myself. Running higher levels alone, just takes planning and strategy. I don't see the delema, solo or group, all the same to me. Running in group just makes it easier and faster for me to get it done.
Agree..But other players want someone to hold there hand because they dont know how to solo...:P
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.
A valid survey requires an unbiased sampling. Any poll from a site like this is subject to self selection bias. . Any concusion based on the poll about the overall MMO population is suspect at best. Thats what a margin of error is for, -/+. Its not gonna be exact. Who should we poll about MMO's? People who eat cheesburgers? People who have green cars? You ask MMO players and you get an answer. I dont ask do you or do you not like Ulitma Online, cause that doesnt answer my question. Im pretty much WTF on this That is because you don't look for real research. Here is a link of MMORPG research done by Nick Yee, who has research in this space extensive, on the subject of what MMO players want. His sampling is a lot BETTER and BIGGER than looking at a few people on forum threads. And you don't have numbers (you mention margin of errors, what are they? give me the numbers) .. while he does. http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001630.php Quest content is ranked #1 of what MMO players want. SOLO content is #3. Social tools is #10 & Grouping is #12. If you look at the percentages, Quest/SOLO > grouping by almost a 2 to 1 margin. There is your data.
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.
A valid survey requires an unbiased sampling. Any poll from a site like this is subject to self selection bias. . Any concusion based on the poll about the overall MMO population is suspect at best. Thats what a margin of error is for, -/+. Its not gonna be exact. Who should we poll about MMO's? People who eat cheesburgers? People who have green cars? You ask MMO players and you get an answer. I dont ask do you or do you not like Ulitma Online, cause that doesnt answer my question. Im pretty much WTF on this That is because you don't look for real research. Here is a link of MMORPG research done by Nick Yee, who has research in this space extensive, on the subject of what MMO players want. His sampling is a lot BETTER and BIGGER than looking at a few people on forum threads. And you don't have numbers (you mention margin of errors, what are they? give me the numbers) .. while he does. http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001630.php Quest content is ranked #1 of what MMO players want. SOLO content is #3. Social tools is #10 & Grouping is #12. If you look at the percentages, Quest/SOLO > grouping by almost a 2 to 1 margin. There is your data.
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
You know Nariuseldom, DemonShank does prove an excellent point. Let's say that post had only two choices to vote on: Group play and Solo play. That poll on the website really can't show that solo play is more "important" to the vast majority. In my opinion, at best, it's about 40grouping/60soloing. And that doesn't mean the soloer is a zealot "solo only" soloist, those soloers could like grouping as well. Same thing with grouping, you won't always find a group, so you may end up soloing until you can find more people.
That poll really isn't effective in showing the margins of soloists and group people, it only showed what each individual gamer saw as the most important concept. Quests is #1, but it could mean both solo quests and group quests. And what about #20, which is harder difficulties inside gaming? It would seem like group people would vote this, but there could be some soloists too (though in my opinion it would be more group people that solo people, but that is my opinion).
I'm not taking sides here, but that poll just isn't an effective tool to show that soloers outnumber groups, it only means what people considered most important. Personally, I would have voted harder difficulties to be most important...
Myself, I run in DDO, if I can't find a group I go solo. I do quests on all levels from Solo to Elite by myself. Running higher levels alone, just takes planning and strategy. I don't see the delema, solo or group, all the same to me. Running in group just makes it easier and faster for me to get it done.
Agree..But other players want someone to hold there hand because they dont know how to solo...:P
Why does every grouping fan (fanatic) always fall back on the same old ill informed statements. Do you guys actually listen to what most soloers want? Or is it as soon as you see solo you automatically think easy mode and freebies? Most people that prefer to solo do not want easy mode or things just thrown at them. They want challenge and difficulty and they want to be equally rewarded for equally challenging content.
If difficulty can be quantified by a simple number then difficulty 6 solo or group content should be rewarded relatively equal. Now the % drop chance shouldn't be equal.
Myself, I run in DDO, if I can't find a group I go solo. I do quests on all levels from Solo to Elite by myself. Running higher levels alone, just takes planning and strategy. I don't see the delema, solo or group, all the same to me. Running in group just makes it easier and faster for me to get it done.
Agree..But other players want someone to hold there hand because they dont know how to solo...:P
Why does every grouping fan (fanatic) always fall back on the same old ill informed statements. Do you guys actually listen to what most soloers want? Or is it as soon as you see solo you automatically think easy mode and freebies? Most people that prefer to solo do not want easy mode or things just thrown at them. They want challenge and difficulty and they want to be equally rewarded for equally challenging content.
If difficulty can be quantified by a simple number then difficulty 6 solo or group content should be rewarded relatively equal. Now the % drop chance shouldn't be equal.
Boyo, you're being a little over-generic about group people such as I. I have a good idea of what soloers want, I keep my ideas flex and listen to others.
Look at post #276 on this thread. In this case, I showed what happens when you had a soloist that tried soloing for so long on a group-centric game that she ended up pissing off someone online for not helping him when he was in need of her cleric res abilities.
These are gripes I have with soloists on certain situations:
1. Zealot soloists who 100% solo and hate anyone who likes group-based gaming.
2. Soloists that hate group based gaming and want all MMOs to be like that.
3. Soloists who only keep their opinions in mind and do not think of group people's opinions. By this, I mean that soloers only think of their ideals and completely ignore whatever group people say, when instead they could at least hear what group people are saying and either understand them or say why they don't believe the group person's ideal in a respectful manner.
4. Soloists that try to a get a group-centric game to have more solo aspects in them, when that would severely alter the game's mechanics to the point where the fans do not recognize the game anymore.
There are probably more gripes, but these are the ones that come to mind.
I can admit, there are some group people that are being unreasonable with soloists. But do not think all group people are intolerant. I do not like many solo aspects inside gaming, but I at least acknowledge that soloists are living breathing people that have their own aspects, and respect people with those opinions (as long as they're not a soloist type of one of my four gripes).
Originally posted by Greenie Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.
Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time". After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know. And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.
So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time. I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.
This is the part I think where solo and group lobbyists get confused and tense. Just because your choices are un- or antisocial in nature does not make them wrong. It's your choice, I'd never try to take that away from you.
Take a look at the definitions of anti-social and solo
Anti social is pretty self explanatory: unwilling to associate with people. hostile towards others. opposed to the principles on which society is constituted.
In particualr on solo #'s 5 - 7 - 9- 11 - and 14. None of these include the words "with others" and it also states "without the usual equipment" and "not combined with equal parts"
Play alone, without usual equipment , and one part does not equal all the parts combined. I found that interesting.
Not getting the same gear, not grouping because strangers are idiots, upset that groups of people get more than one individual will, all of these are the core of the soloer's arguments yet they deny antisocial behavior.
I don't care if you're anti-social, more power to you. But be honest about it, you don't need to apologize for it, and lastly if you'd just admit it, we could all be discussing our views/opinions/desires for possible solutions to compromise so we're all pretty happy. But that means you must be willing to accept the social principle of compromise.
I feel so blessed to be surrounded by practicing psychiatrists and psychologists. You and Demonshank really take the cake on absurdity.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
This thing called soloing in MMO's is caused by player demand, because people have changed over the years. I know myself, I don't play the way I used to in 2000. Back then I loved grouping with strangers, I didn't mind having nothing to do when there was no group to be had. But then back then 3D MMO's were new and people were willing to put up with a lot of stuff, not to mention we were younger back then. These days I find myself not wanting to deal with people I don't know, so I mostly group with people I know only, otherwise soloing by myself.
Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.
I love to socialize when I'm soloing. Chatting is an acceptable means of socializing in anyone's book or do you consider soloers like me to be delusional? I would love to see the evidence that supports your conclusion that the majority of soloers are anti-social, please, anything.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Originally posted by Greenie Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.
Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time". After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know. And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.
So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time. I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.
This is the part I think where solo and group lobbyists get confused and tense. Just because your choices are un- or antisocial in nature does not make them wrong. It's your choice, I'd never try to take that away from you.
Take a look at the definitions of anti-social and solo
Anti social is pretty self explanatory: unwilling to associate with people. hostile towards others. opposed to the principles on which society is constituted.
In particualr on solo #'s 5 - 7 - 9- 11 - and 14. None of these include the words "with others" and it also states "without the usual equipment" and "not combined with equal parts"
Play alone, without usual equipment , and one part does not equal all the parts combined. I found that interesting.
Not getting the same gear, not grouping because strangers are idiots, upset that groups of people get more than one individual will, all of these are the core of the soloer's arguments yet they deny antisocial behavior.
I don't care if you're anti-social, more power to you. But be honest about it, you don't need to apologize for it, and lastly if you'd just admit it, we could all be discussing our views/opinions/desires for possible solutions to compromise so we're all pretty happy. But that means you must be willing to accept the social principle of compromise.
I feel so blessed to be surrounded by practicing psychiatrists and psychologists. You and Demonshank really take the cake on absurdity.
I don't know Vrazule, I agree with Greenie on those thoughts involving the ideals of antisocial behavior. A soloist that solos because they do not want to be around other people could be considered antisocial online. I could understand avoiding strangers in real life, but on an MMO, avoiding strangers is a different beast all together.
I feel so blessed to be surrounded by practicing psychiatrists and psychologists. You and Demonshank really take the cake on absurdity.
Hey! Absurdity said it wasnt gonna eat that cake. If you got something to challenge me on, at least quote me so I know the folly of my ways. According to Vrazule:
This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.
A valid survey requires an unbiased sampling. Any poll from a site like this is subject to self selection bias. . Any concusion based on the poll about the overall MMO population is suspect at best. Thats what a margin of error is for, -/+. Its not gonna be exact. Who should we poll about MMO's? People who eat cheesburgers? People who have green cars? You ask MMO players and you get an answer. I dont ask do you or do you not like Ulitma Online, cause that doesnt answer my question. Im pretty much WTF on this That is because you don't look for real research. Here is a link of MMORPG research done by Nick Yee, who has research in this space extensive, on the subject of what MMO players want. His sampling is a lot BETTER and BIGGER than looking at a few people on forum threads. And you don't have numbers (you mention margin of errors, what are they? give me the numbers) .. while he does. http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001630.php Quest content is ranked #1 of what MMO players want. SOLO content is #3. Social tools is #10 & Grouping is #12. If you look at the percentages, Quest/SOLO > grouping by almost a 2 to 1 margin. There is your data.
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
Wow, you sure are an arrogant puss aren't ya.
Real survey, huh? Don't you mean one that agrees with your opinion, that is.
Please, since you are obviously an experienced and professional poller, why don't you come up with the real numbers and prove it. Personally, I'll take that websites credentials over yours anyday.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
This thing called soloing in MMO's is caused by player demand, because people have changed over the years. I know myself, I don't play the way I used to in 2000. Back then I loved grouping with strangers, I didn't mind having nothing to do when there was no group to be had. But then back then 3D MMO's were new and people were willing to put up with a lot of stuff, not to mention we were younger back then. These days I find myself not wanting to deal with people I don't know, so I mostly group with people I know only, otherwise soloing by myself.
Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.
I love to socialize when I'm soloing. Chatting is an acceptable means of socializing in anyone's book or do you consider soloers like me to be delusional? I would love to see the evidence that supports your conclusion that the majority of soloers are anti-social, please, anything.
In this case, a socializing soloist wouldn't be considered anti-social. But read post #276 (I think that's the post, it talks about an experience I had in Silkroad Online). That case was an anti-social soloist, and on a group-centric game it didn't turn out well in that situation.
A soloist that actively avoids others and doesn't talk to others would be consider anti-social. But one that could stomach the idea of some sort of interaction isn't considered anti-social.
Remember this, socializing with strangers on an MMO really is different than in real life. On an MMO, grouping with strangers will happen quite often, you'll have to get used to that on a group-centric game (or basically in any game that has grouping in it). Not talking to strangers in real life isn't anti-social neccessarily, since who know what that stranger would do to you in real life. But on an MMO, you'll deal with strangers quite often, and if you actively avoid any form of socializing with others online, that could be considered anti-social online. Mardy could be considered part of that group, but that doesn't make him (or her?) bad. It just mean that Mardy is somewhat anti-social online, he/she doesn't like doing anything with a stranger that could simply just want to talk to him/her for a little while.
This site has alot of different voices speaking from the same platform. MMO's. PvP'ers, PvE'ers, FPS'ers, RTS'ers, and every variation of playstyle within those camps and more im missing(space reasons), apologetically. Those following along get the point. This site is absolutlely a cross section of MMO gamers. Polls dont need to ask every single person, only a suitable sampling of potential participants.
A valid survey requires an unbiased sampling. Any poll from a site like this is subject to self selection bias. . Any concusion based on the poll about the overall MMO population is suspect at best. Thats what a margin of error is for, -/+. Its not gonna be exact. Who should we poll about MMO's? People who eat cheesburgers? People who have green cars? You ask MMO players and you get an answer. I dont ask do you or do you not like Ulitma Online, cause that doesnt answer my question. Im pretty much WTF on this That is because you don't look for real research. Here is a link of MMORPG research done by Nick Yee, who has research in this space extensive, on the subject of what MMO players want. His sampling is a lot BETTER and BIGGER than looking at a few people on forum threads. And you don't have numbers (you mention margin of errors, what are they? give me the numbers) .. while he does. http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001630.php Quest content is ranked #1 of what MMO players want. SOLO content is #3. Social tools is #10 & Grouping is #12. If you look at the percentages, Quest/SOLO > grouping by almost a 2 to 1 margin. There is your data.
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
Wow, you sure are an arrogant puss aren't ya.
Real survey, huh? Don't you mean one that agrees with your opinion, that is.
Please, since you are obviously an experienced and professional poller, why don't you come up with the real numbers and prove it. Personally, I'll take that websites credentials over yours anyday.
Read post #291 on this thread for a more professional take on why that poll is quite invalid when dealing with whether people believe solo gameplay or group game play is more important. I'm not being sarcastic, but I do point out professional views on why that poll was quite flawed.
That is because you don't look for real research. Here is a link of MMORPG research done by Nick Yee, who has research in this space extensive, on the subject of what MMO players want. His sampling is a lot BETTER and BIGGER than looking at a few people on forum threads. And you don't have numbers (you mention margin of errors, what are they? give me the numbers) .. while he does. http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001630.php Quest content is ranked #1 of what MMO players want. SOLO content is #3. Social tools is #10 & Grouping is #12. If you look at the percentages, Quest/SOLO > grouping by almost a 2 to 1 margin. There is your data.
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
Wow, you sure are an arrogant puss aren't ya.
Real survey, huh? Don't you mean one that agrees with your opinion, that is.
Please, since you are obviously an experienced and professional poller, why don't you come up with the real numbers and prove it. Personally, I'll take that websites credentials over yours anyday.
Negative on puss. Did you read the post? 89% of people didnt vote specifically for solo or group. Im not questioning the validity of the poll. Im questioning it when its context was perpetrated as valid numbers in a pro-group vs. pro-solo assessment. Its clearly not.
Dont get to throwing around labels. Your point will be flushed if you wanna make attacks on someone by name calling. Make your point but keep the labels to yourself.
Comments
Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time". After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know. And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.
So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time. I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.
This is so unfortunately sad Mardy. I think im a pretty good player, I have made my share of mistakes, like everyone does. We're far from perfect. Clearly you do not hate people for making mistakes, but you'll alienate yourself, your other friends, and the rest of a community to prevent 'possibly' having a bad experience? I respect your decision either way, but you could meet someone like me. We could be friends and that would increase your friends list and thereby giving you more options to your majority playstyle, 80% grouping.
Cutting out the rest of the community is absolutely antisociality. A real shame to lump people together. Those who make mistakes, people who are just evident jerks by their behaviour, and potential good gamers who could be good friends too.
Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time". After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know. And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.
So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time. I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.
This is the part I think where solo and group lobbyists get confused and tense. Just because your choices are un- or antisocial in nature does not make them wrong. It's your choice, I'd never try to take that away from you.
Take a look at the definitions of anti-social and solo
Anti social is pretty self explanatory: unwilling to associate with people. hostile towards others. opposed to the principles on which society is constituted.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/anti%20social
In particualr on solo #'s 5 - 7 - 9- 11 - and 14. None of these include the words "with others" and it also states "without the usual equipment" and "not combined with equal parts"
Play alone, without usual equipment , and one part does not equal all the parts combined. I found that interesting.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solo?o=100074
Not getting the same gear, not grouping because strangers are idiots, upset that groups of people get more than one individual will, all of these are the core of the soloer's arguments yet they deny antisocial behavior.
I don't care if you're anti-social, more power to you. But be honest about it, you don't need to apologize for it, and lastly if you'd just admit it, we could all be discussing our views/opinions/desires for possible solutions to compromise so we're all pretty happy. But that means you must be willing to accept the social principle of compromise.
Start reading the whole discussion or just leave now. Jumping in 100's of posts into the discussion and drop your ill-informed opinions is absurd. Comment on the OP or just GTFO. I wont be disparaged by prattle.
And grouping is ranked # 12..It just shows grouping is not so great...
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
If you solo and hear voices, is that still considered soloing?
Myself, I run in DDO, if I can't find a group I go solo. I do quests on all levels from Solo to Elite by myself. Running higher levels alone, just takes planning and strategy. I don't see the delema, solo or group, all the same to me. Running in group just makes it easier and faster for me to get it done.
No it means you are grouping with Casper the Friendly Ghost..Or playing to much WOW...
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
Agree..But other players want someone to hold there hand because they dont know how to solo...:P
Some people rob you at gun point..Others will rob you at "Ball Point Pen"
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
You know Nariuseldom, DemonShank does prove an excellent point. Let's say that post had only two choices to vote on: Group play and Solo play. That poll on the website really can't show that solo play is more "important" to the vast majority. In my opinion, at best, it's about 40grouping/60soloing. And that doesn't mean the soloer is a zealot "solo only" soloist, those soloers could like grouping as well. Same thing with grouping, you won't always find a group, so you may end up soloing until you can find more people.
That poll really isn't effective in showing the margins of soloists and group people, it only showed what each individual gamer saw as the most important concept. Quests is #1, but it could mean both solo quests and group quests. And what about #20, which is harder difficulties inside gaming? It would seem like group people would vote this, but there could be some soloists too (though in my opinion it would be more group people that solo people, but that is my opinion).
I'm not taking sides here, but that poll just isn't an effective tool to show that soloers outnumber groups, it only means what people considered most important. Personally, I would have voted harder difficulties to be most important...
Agree..But other players want someone to hold there hand because they dont know how to solo...:P
Why does every grouping fan (fanatic) always fall back on the same old ill informed statements. Do you guys actually listen to what most soloers want? Or is it as soon as you see solo you automatically think easy mode and freebies? Most people that prefer to solo do not want easy mode or things just thrown at them. They want challenge and difficulty and they want to be equally rewarded for equally challenging content.
If difficulty can be quantified by a simple number then difficulty 6 solo or group content should be rewarded relatively equal. Now the % drop chance shouldn't be equal.
Agree..But other players want someone to hold there hand because they dont know how to solo...:P
Why does every grouping fan (fanatic) always fall back on the same old ill informed statements. Do you guys actually listen to what most soloers want? Or is it as soon as you see solo you automatically think easy mode and freebies? Most people that prefer to solo do not want easy mode or things just thrown at them. They want challenge and difficulty and they want to be equally rewarded for equally challenging content.
If difficulty can be quantified by a simple number then difficulty 6 solo or group content should be rewarded relatively equal. Now the % drop chance shouldn't be equal.
Boyo, you're being a little over-generic about group people such as I. I have a good idea of what soloers want, I keep my ideas flex and listen to others.
Look at post #276 on this thread. In this case, I showed what happens when you had a soloist that tried soloing for so long on a group-centric game that she ended up pissing off someone online for not helping him when he was in need of her cleric res abilities.
These are gripes I have with soloists on certain situations:
1. Zealot soloists who 100% solo and hate anyone who likes group-based gaming.
2. Soloists that hate group based gaming and want all MMOs to be like that.
3. Soloists who only keep their opinions in mind and do not think of group people's opinions. By this, I mean that soloers only think of their ideals and completely ignore whatever group people say, when instead they could at least hear what group people are saying and either understand them or say why they don't believe the group person's ideal in a respectful manner.
4. Soloists that try to a get a group-centric game to have more solo aspects in them, when that would severely alter the game's mechanics to the point where the fans do not recognize the game anymore.
There are probably more gripes, but these are the ones that come to mind.
I can admit, there are some group people that are being unreasonable with soloists. But do not think all group people are intolerant. I do not like many solo aspects inside gaming, but I at least acknowledge that soloists are living breathing people that have their own aspects, and respect people with those opinions (as long as they're not a soloist type of one of my four gripes).
Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time". After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know. And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.
So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time. I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.
This is the part I think where solo and group lobbyists get confused and tense. Just because your choices are un- or antisocial in nature does not make them wrong. It's your choice, I'd never try to take that away from you.
Take a look at the definitions of anti-social and solo
Anti social is pretty self explanatory: unwilling to associate with people. hostile towards others. opposed to the principles on which society is constituted.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/anti%20social
In particualr on solo #'s 5 - 7 - 9- 11 - and 14. None of these include the words "with others" and it also states "without the usual equipment" and "not combined with equal parts"
Play alone, without usual equipment , and one part does not equal all the parts combined. I found that interesting.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solo?o=100074
Not getting the same gear, not grouping because strangers are idiots, upset that groups of people get more than one individual will, all of these are the core of the soloer's arguments yet they deny antisocial behavior.
I don't care if you're anti-social, more power to you. But be honest about it, you don't need to apologize for it, and lastly if you'd just admit it, we could all be discussing our views/opinions/desires for possible solutions to compromise so we're all pretty happy. But that means you must be willing to accept the social principle of compromise.
I feel so blessed to be surrounded by practicing psychiatrists and psychologists. You and Demonshank really take the cake on absurdity.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.
I love to socialize when I'm soloing. Chatting is an acceptable means of socializing in anyone's book or do you consider soloers like me to be delusional? I would love to see the evidence that supports your conclusion that the majority of soloers are anti-social, please, anything.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Well the thing is you can call it "anti-social choices", I can call it "my subscription fee, my time". After so many years of gaming, I got tired of having my time wasted, or having my gaming experience ruined by people I don't know. And thanks to internet anonimity, you can't hold anybody accountable and you simply have to put up with it.
So it really isn't as much about being anti-social, it's more like I'm simply tired of dealing with crap from people I don't know during my gaming time. I do group plenty, I'd say 80% of my time, but it's only to group with friends and those I know ingame.
This is the part I think where solo and group lobbyists get confused and tense. Just because your choices are un- or antisocial in nature does not make them wrong. It's your choice, I'd never try to take that away from you.
Take a look at the definitions of anti-social and solo
Anti social is pretty self explanatory: unwilling to associate with people. hostile towards others. opposed to the principles on which society is constituted.
dictionary.reference.com/browse/anti%20social
In particualr on solo #'s 5 - 7 - 9- 11 - and 14. None of these include the words "with others" and it also states "without the usual equipment" and "not combined with equal parts"
Play alone, without usual equipment , and one part does not equal all the parts combined. I found that interesting.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/solo?o=100074
Not getting the same gear, not grouping because strangers are idiots, upset that groups of people get more than one individual will, all of these are the core of the soloer's arguments yet they deny antisocial behavior.
I don't care if you're anti-social, more power to you. But be honest about it, you don't need to apologize for it, and lastly if you'd just admit it, we could all be discussing our views/opinions/desires for possible solutions to compromise so we're all pretty happy. But that means you must be willing to accept the social principle of compromise.
I feel so blessed to be surrounded by practicing psychiatrists and psychologists. You and Demonshank really take the cake on absurdity.
I don't know Vrazule, I agree with Greenie on those thoughts involving the ideals of antisocial behavior. A soloist that solos because they do not want to be around other people could be considered antisocial online. I could understand avoiding strangers in real life, but on an MMO, avoiding strangers is a different beast all together.
Hey! Absurdity said it wasnt gonna eat that cake. If you got something to challenge me on, at least quote me so I know the folly of my ways. According to Vrazule:
In other words: WTF did I do?
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
Wow, you sure are an arrogant puss aren't ya.
Real survey, huh? Don't you mean one that agrees with your opinion, that is.
Please, since you are obviously an experienced and professional poller, why don't you come up with the real numbers and prove it. Personally, I'll take that websites credentials over yours anyday.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Well at least you admit that reason you don't group is due to anti-social choices, something 'some' soloists have continually tried to deny.
I love to socialize when I'm soloing. Chatting is an acceptable means of socializing in anyone's book or do you consider soloers like me to be delusional? I would love to see the evidence that supports your conclusion that the majority of soloers are anti-social, please, anything.
In this case, a socializing soloist wouldn't be considered anti-social. But read post #276 (I think that's the post, it talks about an experience I had in Silkroad Online). That case was an anti-social soloist, and on a group-centric game it didn't turn out well in that situation.
A soloist that actively avoids others and doesn't talk to others would be consider anti-social. But one that could stomach the idea of some sort of interaction isn't considered anti-social.
Remember this, socializing with strangers on an MMO really is different than in real life. On an MMO, grouping with strangers will happen quite often, you'll have to get used to that on a group-centric game (or basically in any game that has grouping in it). Not talking to strangers in real life isn't anti-social neccessarily, since who know what that stranger would do to you in real life. But on an MMO, you'll deal with strangers quite often, and if you actively avoid any form of socializing with others online, that could be considered anti-social online. Mardy could be considered part of that group, but that doesn't make him (or her?) bad. It just mean that Mardy is somewhat anti-social online, he/she doesn't like doing anything with a stranger that could simply just want to talk to him/her for a little while.
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
Wow, you sure are an arrogant puss aren't ya.
Real survey, huh? Don't you mean one that agrees with your opinion, that is.
Please, since you are obviously an experienced and professional poller, why don't you come up with the real numbers and prove it. Personally, I'll take that websites credentials over yours anyday.
Read post #291 on this thread for a more professional take on why that poll is quite invalid when dealing with whether people believe solo gameplay or group game play is more important. I'm not being sarcastic, but I do point out professional views on why that poll was quite flawed.
Super. Now lets cut away all the BS and get a real survery.
89% of 500 people voted for other choices.
You're not serious? So what does the other 89% think? They dont care? That could be right? Hmmm...
If its a group game with special attention to thier importance its kewl, right? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Maybe they are fine with a soloist game? Who knows, they didnt answer that.
Im glad you posted this. Another clear vantage point, besides just 'random' nobodys across several MMO/Gaming website forums. We couldnt possible take them seriously. NO WAY!! Fakes. Frauds. Im not a real person who has a voice. Thanks! WEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
I probably wouldnt have voted for group either, entirely. Hell, I like alot of that shit on that list. I think alot of it is important. Im not gonna play a game that has us all standing in a group holding hands. That other stuff needs to be good too. Besides that, if you say to me MMOG, im gonna instantly think Massively Multiplayer Online Game. That description has Multiplayers in it. Likely and most importantly doing shit together!
Wow, you sure are an arrogant puss aren't ya.
Real survey, huh? Don't you mean one that agrees with your opinion, that is.
Please, since you are obviously an experienced and professional poller, why don't you come up with the real numbers and prove it. Personally, I'll take that websites credentials over yours anyday.
Negative on puss. Did you read the post? 89% of people didnt vote specifically for solo or group. Im not questioning the validity of the poll. Im questioning it when its context was perpetrated as valid numbers in a pro-group vs. pro-solo assessment. Its clearly not.
Dont get to throwing around labels. Your point will be flushed if you wanna make attacks on someone by name calling. Make your point but keep the labels to yourself.