It all started with EQ when the elitist raid guilds refused to allow other guilds and player access to top tier content. It continued in WoW with elitist guilds and eventually damage meters because WoW was designed by EQ raiders.
The way I see it, you raiders have brought it onto yourselves. Raiders built WoW and the whole set up allows for the elitist attitudes to persist.
I just wish they let us step things up in 5-10 mans with competitive loot. I'd rather do a slightly harder 10-man or a very hard 5-man any day, than have one of those 24 teammates consistently prevent me from progressing my character and seeing new content. I don't want to have to hunt for the best guild on the server to see content; I just want to show up, play well, and see success as a result of playing well.
Thats exactly how I always felt about WoW or raiding in any mmo.
In my raiding experience, meters were rarely a problem. Perhaps because the only times posted meters really bother me is if people post them while a boss is being explained, or during loot (when chat is needed for something important.)
Honestly DPS-race fights are pretty rare in WOW, so even though I think DPS competition is great for guilds, the important thing is for people to not be idiots and to get the boss killed.
DPS meters were helpful when I was raiding for spotting deadweight. And at the level of play that raiding can be in WOW, it's rude to hurt others' progress by being deadweight.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You're complaining because you need to work at maximizing your classes effectiveness in group content? Reading strats and game guides on classes and improving your playstyle is apart of every mmo. Even if you don;t raid you should still be doing that. Hell im siding with WoW on this, Setting up and improving your character through skill rotation, spec and gear is a plus in that game.
I still find it funny that people actualy need game guides on classes to improve their playstyle, it's as if those people are not really able to play and understand what they are playing so they resort to the easy path and not learn from the game itself but look at game guides.
So no most people I know, incl. me into these type of games do not need guides as most atleast those I know understand what they play. Those who do not know how to play often resort ot guides or addons.......and keep in mind this is my personal opinion which is MINE and not a fact for all.
You're complaining because you need to work at maximizing your classes effectiveness in group content? Reading strats and game guides on classes and improving your playstyle is apart of every mmo. Even if you don;t raid you should still be doing that. Hell im siding with WoW on this, Setting up and improving your character through skill rotation, spec and gear is a plus in that game.
I still find it funny that people actualy need game guides on classes to improve their playstyle, it's as if those people are not really able to play and understand what they are playing so they resort to the easy path and not learn from the game itself but look at game guides.
So no most people I know, incl. me into these type of games do not need guides as most atleast those I know understand what they play. Those who do not know how to play often resort ot guides or addons.......and keep in mind this is my personal opinion which is MINE and not a fact for all.
Most people do not need guides for their classes. However, the direction raiding in WoW went, even a marginal increase in DPS will make your chances to get into a raid that much better. The whole game is about min/maxing. In other words, knowing your optimal rotation is a must if you want to raid. And you also need to have the achievement.
If this trend continues and eventually spills over into future games in this genre I think I will just not bother. It takes too much away from the game for me to make it worth while paying for something that causes you stress, and begins to govern your spare time.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
usually any mmo i play, i pick a healing class. even in wow when i first played it i had a resto druid at launch back when u could only spec resto to do nething & went upto aq. too ka break then came back as a priest. i just recently found out about ppl using heal bots. i cannot use heal bots for the life of me. reason i dont do dps is because it gets repitive after a few tries. healing, you never know wat to expect so if i get heal bots i take that fun away.
also meters are crap to determine how good of a healer you are. say you are a discipline priest or resto druid you will more then likely be on the bottom of the meter but both healers provide a lot of prevention from death which other specs do not. druids hots keeping people up & disc priest ubbles mitagating damage. our guild bans all sort of damage meters in raids. one of the officer recors data from the raid & in the end posts on the forums for those intrested to see how they did. policy is as long as the stuff that needs to be killed dies & players who need to be kept alive are kept up everthing is usually going well. raid only 3 nights usually 3 hrs & have everything cept yogg down by doing it for fun & not hardcore commited raiding.
wow OP......... get out of my head haha. This is Exactly what I am going through right now. I have done plenty of raiding in WOTLK. I stuck with my shammy got the T7 and 7.5 gear and have been working in Ulduar for a while now. I found myself falling into this rut like you did except I am a dual spec'd Resto/Elemental Shaman so I've had to do all of the research grind and all for 2 completely different specs and for the most part 2 completely different sets of gear.
I had to step back after I found out that I was getting stressed out in the raids. And yes I do acceptable DPS and Healing. Either I have bad luck getting stuck with jaded, uptight greedy people or the majority of WoW players take it way too seriously. It's just a game. I want to get on there and sure I want to be good but damn, it's just a game. I want to meet some people to run around with and share some laughs while kicking some ass in raids. Anyways I have decided that the WoW crowd just isn't for me anymore and neither is the WoW formula for "fun" lol. Been checking out Aion lately. Looks promising and I've been having a good time in the betas. Also keeping an eye out for FFXIV.
Originally posted by Reklaw I still find it funny that people actualy need game guides on classes to improve their playstyle, it's as if those people are not really able to play and understand what they are playing so they resort to the easy path and not learn from the game itself but look at game guides.
I see people who try to "learn from the game itself" all the time. 90% of them suck badly. I've never seen any of them truely excel.
It seems to me that wise people in any discipline are humble enough to know that no matter how much they know, there's still something they can learn from others. Would Shakespeare have been such a great author if he had never read a book or seen a play? Would Einstein have invented relativity if he had never read a book on mathematics or physics?
Anyone who is serious about improving their performance, in any discipline, does everything possible to get better. And that includes learning from others.
I left wow after my old guild cleared tbc content. I got bored as everyone else after a few years of alot of fun... I bought wotlk and begun to raid in a small scale without my former guild. And the raiding has really become to the point that admriker4 describe. As a healer Ive always had my goal to keep the others alive Ive done it quite good from UBRS to BT. But in Wotlk pepole can begin to complain about my heals isnt high enough (acording to their meters) even thou the raid is alive and doing well. Once I even got kicked becuse of "...your HS is below our stanard". And that from a raid group that has been playing with from now and then. My hope is that blizzard will ban this kind of addons and give back the vanillia wow raiding type were gear, skills and alot of patince did do the trick.
When I see someone in distress with their MMO I always look back to EQ1. The amount of bonding I did with other players in EQ1 was amazing. You would have to sit for a long bit of time just to heal up, or meditate for mana, this time was chat time. You grew to become friends with people you grouped with, had a laugh or two, and killing the beasts were just part of the fun.
Originally posted by Reklaw I still find it funny that people actualy need game guides on classes to improve their playstyle, it's as if those people are not really able to play and understand what they are playing so they resort to the easy path and not learn from the game itself but look at game guides.
I see people who try to "learn from the game itself" all the time. 90% of them suck badly. I've never seen any of them truely excel.
It seems to me that wise people in any discipline are humble enough to know that no matter how much they know, there's still something they can learn from others. Would Shakespeare have been such a great author if he had never read a book or seen a play? Would Einstein have invented relativity if he had never read a book on mathematics or physics?
Anyone who is serious about improving their performance, in any discipline, does everything possible to get better. And that improves learning from others.
Most of them are terrible.
I'm sorry but the people that put up these guides on how to play, gear, spec and all that spend hundreds if not thousands of hours stripping MMOs down to the nuts and bolts to minmax and get the absolute perfect results.
You don;t suck because you went out of your way and read documentaion on a game you like, you suck if you winged it and barely know your class.
These people that don't give a shit are the reason PUGS suck so much. Whenever you see a hunter with int and spirit gear wielding a caster staff or a Lock with Str gear on you know that bastard didn;t even try to be good at his class.
It's not like this in just WoW but ALL mmos, even Eve online I check loadouts, skill train methods and full hundred page documents written by people that break my game down like its a science and thank god because I dont have that kind of time and im grateful that they do it.
I love raiding. Its not just the pretty loot. The teamwork, getting to see content, and achieving a difficult objective is why I play mmo's. Raiding in World of Warcraft though has killed my love for this playstyle. Raiding in WoW has a way of slowly sucking the fun out of the game. It starts out with meters and ends in frustration.
I hated raiding for the repetition - it was mind-numbingly boring and more like work than... well work.
But to address the OP...
Something that people fail to understand is that end-game raid gear equates to virtual player levels.
All raid-gear has a level statistic attached to it. If the level cap is 80 but you're fully decked out in the very best raid gear, you are effectively (by virtue of the statistics on your gear) a much higher level player. But your power/effectiveness is no longer neatly summarised in a single number, i.e. your level.
If you're level 20 and going into an instance and a level 1 player wants to join you and you say no - no-one would think that unreasonable. Players coming up with "silly meters" is simply a way to replace the information that is no longer available in the level statistic.
Personally I've never really liked this style of end-game. I'd rather just have more levels, than chase down pieces of gear that equate to the same thing.
Addons are just tools. The problem is that too many people on both sides of the issue are 'wannabe competitors'. They want to the 'cool stuff' but lack the understanding and experience of the process. They do not understand what matters and what does not and as such they jump at any theory and gimmick that they come accross. It's like someone decides to train for the Boston Marathon but does not understand the process of training for something like this. They are likely to resort to gadgets, fringe theories and get obsessive abotu the process.
Damage meters are a very cool tool when used correctly. Examining the damage meter results after a few boss fights I was really suprised how much of my damage actually came from a spell I thought was secondary. That little thing really improved my playing.
The problem is that many players simply do not understand how to use the damage meters properly. They aim for 'perfection of goal' rather than 'perfection of process'. They base their understanding on simple goals rather than trying to examine the complex process. The damage meters are not a problem. The problem is the players who like to measure stuff without thinking about what the numbers really mean.
Raiding is a team challenge. In a team challenge if a member is underperforming he/she is letting the team down. There is just not a nicer way to put it. At a certain level of challenge that is going to stop the team from completing the challenge. At that point the team has to make a decision: do they stop progressing or do they replace the underperforming members. It's not a pretty choice but a choice that has to be made.
Problem with raiders is they forget most of us have jobs and families. The worst experience for me was when i was told to lock my kids in their room and go on a raid and that my priorities were misplaced. I'm sorry but I really hope a large portion of those raiders are sterile or in prison now because they are a plague upon society. It is a game that is all. Blizzard needs to add a lot more content for people with outside lives instead of pandering to the raiders. I really don't care if it takes me months to get something as long as the journey is enjoyable.
I have to say I agree with the OP. I used to raid a great deal and was part of one of the biggest raid guilds on my server. Over time, any fun I had doing it was replaced by a feeling of obligation. Adhering to our raid schedules eventually became like work... I came and I was always on time, but there was always something else I would rather be doing. In my opinion, this is not how any game should be...
I eventually came to the realization that end-game WoW is ONLY about forcing players to grind content over and over again to get the next piece of gear. There is truly nothing else to it. Its not like the content is really hard either. There were raids in vanilla WOW and BC that I felt were truly challenging, but WOTLK raids are a joke in comparison. As long as you are there and aren't a complete moron, you will do fine.
Having that super epic 1337 gear doesn't prove that you are better than any other player... It simply proves that you have the patience to repeat the same tedious content over and over and over and over again.
Having that super epic 1337 gear doesn't prove that you are better than any other player... It simply proves that you have the patience to repeat the same tedious content over and over and over and over again.
Yeah, and this is why I once again get that Twilight Zone feeling when people compare this to sports. How is it a sport? Who are you competing against, the AI? Does anyone really believe that anyone outside their guild gives a damn about their character or how many hours they've put into the game? Who are you impressing?
People put in their time and progress their character. That's a sport? I can hear that Twilight Zone music playing.
If that's a sport than sitting in my yard counting blades of a grass is a sport too. Sure, nobody knows or cares what I'm doing and it's a simple matter of (more time) = (more blades of grass counted) but what the hell, it's a sport.
I have nothing against raiding and enjoyed Molten Core and Blackwing Lair (in WoW) quite a bit. What bothered me was how it changed my guild. We all started that first week of release and working together, both casual and hardcore, we went 1-60 and it was a blast. I think it was the most fun I've ever had playing any game. Any arguments that were had were forgotten and over with within an hour. Sacrificing my time to run Scholomance 9 times in one day to kill that damned bird/bat man to get the Warrior set boots was a lot of fun. (kept getting that damn druid helm). I'll always look back on that day and smile at the goofy variations we tried (and wiped because of) just to keep the run fresh and interesting. Raiding started out fun then became serious work. Classes were expected to spec a certain way (with some but very little latitude) and attendance was mandatory. Slowly we watched the morale and enthusiasm of the guild fade. Some players tried to avoid others so as not to talk about raid-related stuff. We were a happy bunch until endgame. Raiding didn't ruin WoW for me but its effects undermined my guilds balance enough to play a key role in my guilds disbanding. Anyhow that is what comes to mind with the OPs post titled "Raiding in WoW ruined the game for me". Anyone else have this problem with WoW or any other mmog?
I had a very similar experience with my old guild. pre-BC WoW raiding pretty much sucked the life out it.
The issue is that raiding really is 'serious business'. If you goof off you get the raid wiped. While an individual person might shrug the death off, you now share the responsibility for the enjoyment of others who most likely are your friends. It makes you feel bad that your carelessness or incompetence cost other time. So there is a very serious incentive for a decent human being to try to take things more seriously. You are not just playing for your enjoyment but for the enjoyment of others. Analogy: if I am cooking for myself I will likely just cook something up fast but if I am cooking for family or friends I will take extra care.
You are there for your enjoyment, i find what you say absolutely crazy. wow is a game not a way of life, if you wipe it doesnt matter, it wont change the world in anyway. And for your cooking analogy, would you cook something you hated so your friends could enjoy eating it and not you? no you wouldnt so why do it in wow. get a life.
WoW from the get go is a pve game, of course raid will be the end-game. I really dont understand why all these QQ is about.
As ive said in other post, this game is simply not make for us, but what let us hook is the level from 1 to 60, now 80.
I just think maybe we are asking Blizz too much to change the end-game so that it can suit the rest of the player base... Maybe because they are currently the most sucessful and we still like to play...
And of course because there isnt a better game out there...
Raiding is a team challenge. In a team challenge if a member is underperforming he/she is letting the team down. There is just not a nicer way to put it. At a certain level of challenge that is going to stop the team from completing the challenge. At that point the team has to make a decision: do they stop progressing or do they replace the underperforming members. It's not a pretty choice but a choice that has to be made.
And this is why the wow community well and truly sucks,
WoW from the get go is a pve game, of course raid will be the end-game. I really dont understand why all these QQ is about. As ive said in other post, this game is simply not make for us, but what let us hook is the level from 1 to 60, now 80. I just think maybe we are asking Blizz too much to change the end-game so that it can suit the rest of the player base... Maybe because they are currently the most sucessful and we still like to play... And of course because there isnt a better game out there...
Aion is better than wow in my opinion and thats where my money will be going.
Raiding is a team challenge. In a team challenge if a member is underperforming he/she is letting the team down. There is just not a nicer way to put it. At a certain level of challenge that is going to stop the team from completing the challenge. At that point the team has to make a decision: do they stop progressing or do they replace the underperforming members. It's not a pretty choice but a choice that has to be made.
And this is why the wow community well and truly sucks,
Erm.... may i know why? How many chance must i give a player to learn? How many times? Is he going to pay for all my repair cost?
Comments
It all started with EQ when the elitist raid guilds refused to allow other guilds and player access to top tier content. It continued in WoW with elitist guilds and eventually damage meters because WoW was designed by EQ raiders.
The way I see it, you raiders have brought it onto yourselves. Raiders built WoW and the whole set up allows for the elitist attitudes to persist.
Thats exactly how I always felt about WoW or raiding in any mmo.
In my raiding experience, meters were rarely a problem. Perhaps because the only times posted meters really bother me is if people post them while a boss is being explained, or during loot (when chat is needed for something important.)
Honestly DPS-race fights are pretty rare in WOW, so even though I think DPS competition is great for guilds, the important thing is for people to not be idiots and to get the boss killed.
DPS meters were helpful when I was raiding for spotting deadweight. And at the level of play that raiding can be in WOW, it's rude to hurt others' progress by being deadweight.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I still find it funny that people actualy need game guides on classes to improve their playstyle, it's as if those people are not really able to play and understand what they are playing so they resort to the easy path and not learn from the game itself but look at game guides.
So no most people I know, incl. me into these type of games do not need guides as most atleast those I know understand what they play. Those who do not know how to play often resort ot guides or addons.......and keep in mind this is my personal opinion which is MINE and not a fact for all.
I still find it funny that people actualy need game guides on classes to improve their playstyle, it's as if those people are not really able to play and understand what they are playing so they resort to the easy path and not learn from the game itself but look at game guides.
So no most people I know, incl. me into these type of games do not need guides as most atleast those I know understand what they play. Those who do not know how to play often resort ot guides or addons.......and keep in mind this is my personal opinion which is MINE and not a fact for all.
Most people do not need guides for their classes. However, the direction raiding in WoW went, even a marginal increase in DPS will make your chances to get into a raid that much better. The whole game is about min/maxing. In other words, knowing your optimal rotation is a must if you want to raid. And you also need to have the achievement.
If this trend continues and eventually spills over into future games in this genre I think I will just not bother. It takes too much away from the game for me to make it worth while paying for something that causes you stress, and begins to govern your spare time.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
usually any mmo i play, i pick a healing class. even in wow when i first played it i had a resto druid at launch back when u could only spec resto to do nething & went upto aq. too ka break then came back as a priest. i just recently found out about ppl using heal bots. i cannot use heal bots for the life of me. reason i dont do dps is because it gets repitive after a few tries. healing, you never know wat to expect so if i get heal bots i take that fun away.
also meters are crap to determine how good of a healer you are. say you are a discipline priest or resto druid you will more then likely be on the bottom of the meter but both healers provide a lot of prevention from death which other specs do not. druids hots keeping people up & disc priest ubbles mitagating damage. our guild bans all sort of damage meters in raids. one of the officer recors data from the raid & in the end posts on the forums for those intrested to see how they did. policy is as long as the stuff that needs to be killed dies & players who need to be kept alive are kept up everthing is usually going well. raid only 3 nights usually 3 hrs & have everything cept yogg down by doing it for fun & not hardcore commited raiding.
wow OP......... get out of my head haha. This is Exactly what I am going through right now. I have done plenty of raiding in WOTLK. I stuck with my shammy got the T7 and 7.5 gear and have been working in Ulduar for a while now. I found myself falling into this rut like you did except I am a dual spec'd Resto/Elemental Shaman so I've had to do all of the research grind and all for 2 completely different specs and for the most part 2 completely different sets of gear.
I had to step back after I found out that I was getting stressed out in the raids. And yes I do acceptable DPS and Healing. Either I have bad luck getting stuck with jaded, uptight greedy people or the majority of WoW players take it way too seriously. It's just a game. I want to get on there and sure I want to be good but damn, it's just a game. I want to meet some people to run around with and share some laughs while kicking some ass in raids. Anyways I have decided that the WoW crowd just isn't for me anymore and neither is the WoW formula for "fun" lol. Been checking out Aion lately. Looks promising and I've been having a good time in the betas. Also keeping an eye out for FFXIV.
I see people who try to "learn from the game itself" all the time. 90% of them suck badly. I've never seen any of them truely excel.
It seems to me that wise people in any discipline are humble enough to know that no matter how much they know, there's still something they can learn from others. Would Shakespeare have been such a great author if he had never read a book or seen a play? Would Einstein have invented relativity if he had never read a book on mathematics or physics?
Anyone who is serious about improving their performance, in any discipline, does everything possible to get better. And that includes learning from others.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
I left wow after my old guild cleared tbc content. I got bored as everyone else after a few years of alot of fun... I bought wotlk and begun to raid in a small scale without my former guild. And the raiding has really become to the point that admriker4 describe. As a healer Ive always had my goal to keep the others alive Ive done it quite good from UBRS to BT. But in Wotlk pepole can begin to complain about my heals isnt high enough (acording to their meters) even thou the raid is alive and doing well. Once I even got kicked becuse of "...your HS is below our stanard". And that from a raid group that has been playing with from now and then. My hope is that blizzard will ban this kind of addons and give back the vanillia wow raiding type were gear, skills and alot of patince did do the trick.
I7@4ghz, 5970@ 1 ghz/5ghz, water cooled||Former setups Byggblogg||Byggblogg 2|| Msi Wind u100
When I see someone in distress with their MMO I always look back to EQ1. The amount of bonding I did with other players in EQ1 was amazing. You would have to sit for a long bit of time just to heal up, or meditate for mana, this time was chat time. You grew to become friends with people you grouped with, had a laugh or two, and killing the beasts were just part of the fun.
I see people who try to "learn from the game itself" all the time. 90% of them suck badly. I've never seen any of them truely excel.
It seems to me that wise people in any discipline are humble enough to know that no matter how much they know, there's still something they can learn from others. Would Shakespeare have been such a great author if he had never read a book or seen a play? Would Einstein have invented relativity if he had never read a book on mathematics or physics?
Anyone who is serious about improving their performance, in any discipline, does everything possible to get better. And that improves learning from others.
Most of them are terrible.
I'm sorry but the people that put up these guides on how to play, gear, spec and all that spend hundreds if not thousands of hours stripping MMOs down to the nuts and bolts to minmax and get the absolute perfect results.
You don;t suck because you went out of your way and read documentaion on a game you like, you suck if you winged it and barely know your class.
These people that don't give a shit are the reason PUGS suck so much. Whenever you see a hunter with int and spirit gear wielding a caster staff or a Lock with Str gear on you know that bastard didn;t even try to be good at his class.
It's not like this in just WoW but ALL mmos, even Eve online I check loadouts, skill train methods and full hundred page documents written by people that break my game down like its a science and thank god because I dont have that kind of time and im grateful that they do it.
Playing: EvE, Ryzom
I hated raiding for the repetition - it was mind-numbingly boring and more like work than... well work.
But to address the OP...
Something that people fail to understand is that end-game raid gear equates to virtual player levels.
All raid-gear has a level statistic attached to it. If the level cap is 80 but you're fully decked out in the very best raid gear, you are effectively (by virtue of the statistics on your gear) a much higher level player. But your power/effectiveness is no longer neatly summarised in a single number, i.e. your level.
If you're level 20 and going into an instance and a level 1 player wants to join you and you say no - no-one would think that unreasonable. Players coming up with "silly meters" is simply a way to replace the information that is no longer available in the level statistic.
Personally I've never really liked this style of end-game. I'd rather just have more levels, than chase down pieces of gear that equate to the same thing.
Addons are just tools. The problem is that too many people on both sides of the issue are 'wannabe competitors'. They want to the 'cool stuff' but lack the understanding and experience of the process. They do not understand what matters and what does not and as such they jump at any theory and gimmick that they come accross. It's like someone decides to train for the Boston Marathon but does not understand the process of training for something like this. They are likely to resort to gadgets, fringe theories and get obsessive abotu the process.
Damage meters are a very cool tool when used correctly. Examining the damage meter results after a few boss fights I was really suprised how much of my damage actually came from a spell I thought was secondary. That little thing really improved my playing.
The problem is that many players simply do not understand how to use the damage meters properly. They aim for 'perfection of goal' rather than 'perfection of process'. They base their understanding on simple goals rather than trying to examine the complex process. The damage meters are not a problem. The problem is the players who like to measure stuff without thinking about what the numbers really mean.
Raiding is a team challenge. In a team challenge if a member is underperforming he/she is letting the team down. There is just not a nicer way to put it. At a certain level of challenge that is going to stop the team from completing the challenge. At that point the team has to make a decision: do they stop progressing or do they replace the underperforming members. It's not a pretty choice but a choice that has to be made.
i agree with op, all shite been said defend this matter is just for if wow would be a person they would marry it.
Problem with raiders is they forget most of us have jobs and families. The worst experience for me was when i was told to lock my kids in their room and go on a raid and that my priorities were misplaced. I'm sorry but I really hope a large portion of those raiders are sterile or in prison now because they are a plague upon society. It is a game that is all. Blizzard needs to add a lot more content for people with outside lives instead of pandering to the raiders. I really don't care if it takes me months to get something as long as the journey is enjoyable.
I have to say I agree with the OP. I used to raid a great deal and was part of one of the biggest raid guilds on my server. Over time, any fun I had doing it was replaced by a feeling of obligation. Adhering to our raid schedules eventually became like work... I came and I was always on time, but there was always something else I would rather be doing. In my opinion, this is not how any game should be...
I eventually came to the realization that end-game WoW is ONLY about forcing players to grind content over and over again to get the next piece of gear. There is truly nothing else to it. Its not like the content is really hard either. There were raids in vanilla WOW and BC that I felt were truly challenging, but WOTLK raids are a joke in comparison. As long as you are there and aren't a complete moron, you will do fine.
Having that super epic 1337 gear doesn't prove that you are better than any other player... It simply proves that you have the patience to repeat the same tedious content over and over and over and over again.
blame EQ. It started the silly raiding train off.
I really wish all addons would just go away 100%. If you can't figure out when to push button #! vs button #5 you shouldn't be playing.
Yeah, and this is why I once again get that Twilight Zone feeling when people compare this to sports. How is it a sport? Who are you competing against, the AI? Does anyone really believe that anyone outside their guild gives a damn about their character or how many hours they've put into the game? Who are you impressing?
People put in their time and progress their character. That's a sport? I can hear that Twilight Zone music playing.
If that's a sport than sitting in my yard counting blades of a grass is a sport too. Sure, nobody knows or cares what I'm doing and it's a simple matter of (more time) = (more blades of grass counted) but what the hell, it's a sport.
I had a very similar experience with my old guild. pre-BC WoW raiding pretty much sucked the life out it.
The issue is that raiding really is 'serious business'. If you goof off you get the raid wiped. While an individual person might shrug the death off, you now share the responsibility for the enjoyment of others who most likely are your friends. It makes you feel bad that your carelessness or incompetence cost other time. So there is a very serious incentive for a decent human being to try to take things more seriously. You are not just playing for your enjoyment but for the enjoyment of others. Analogy: if I am cooking for myself I will likely just cook something up fast but if I am cooking for family or friends I will take extra care.
You are there for your enjoyment, i find what you say absolutely crazy. wow is a game not a way of life, if you wipe it doesnt matter, it wont change the world in anyway. And for your cooking analogy, would you cook something you hated so your friends could enjoy eating it and not you? no you wouldnt so why do it in wow. get a life.
WoW from the get go is a pve game, of course raid will be the end-game. I really dont understand why all these QQ is about.
As ive said in other post, this game is simply not make for us, but what let us hook is the level from 1 to 60, now 80.
I just think maybe we are asking Blizz too much to change the end-game so that it can suit the rest of the player base... Maybe because they are currently the most sucessful and we still like to play...
And of course because there isnt a better game out there...
RIP Orc Choppa
And this is why the wow community well and truly sucks,
Aion is better than wow in my opinion and thats where my money will be going.
And this is why the wow community well and truly sucks,
Erm.... may i know why? How many chance must i give a player to learn? How many times? Is he going to pay for all my repair cost?
RIP Orc Choppa