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Darkfalls losing lots of subs over this...
Pyrostasis
Member UncommonPosts: 2,293
So I am a former Darkfall player, got the game at release even though there was a lot of negative press, no stress test, little beta, and practically 0 communication. Why? Well... I love UO and this really did look like UO's second coming.
After playing it for a few months, I will say it was very similar to UO, but it definitely had some issues. However, I will say the game turned out better than I had planned. My guild and I took off to wait for the NA release, where we had planned to start over.
NA release comes, and we are told that we are going to have to repurchase the game to play on the NA servers, or, wait 90 days and our toon would be moved for us...long as we dont mind paying a undisclosed fee, and dealing with some restrictions...which they still havent told us a month into it.
Well, thats a game breaker for me, and many other NA players. Why you ask? Well, we were told to go ahead and buy the game, not to worry, we would be taken care of at launch. Not 3 months down the road... and at no time were we told it would ever cost us money.
Check out this quote.
Pretty clearly states they will take care of us when the server launches.
I then made a post on the forums, and quite a large group of folks agreed.
Now granted, 150 people isnt huge in the grand scheme of things, but, forum participation is rather low compared to sub numbers in just about any game, and 150 people come from many different gaming communitys and guilds. Regardless thats about 10% of the estimated players at a give time on EU currently. (2000 - 2500).
So I filed a support ticket.
"I am a NA player, who purchased Darkfall at release, under the impression that we would be allowed to move to the NA server. The NA server has been out almost a month, and it doesnt seem like this is the case.
I would like my account switched to the NA server, and my character deleted, Allowing me to start from scratch. If you are willing to do this, then I'd love to be a customer once again, as would my brother, and many guildmates. However, I just dont think its fair to require us to repurchase the game, when we were told we would be taken care of.
You can see from this link here http://www.tentonhammer.com/node/61490 we were told ""We’re allowing players from N. America to participate in the European release due to this fact. Of course we’ll make some allowances for these players if they would like to move to the US server when it launches."
I simply want to be able to play your game, and more importantly pay you to do so, but from my own country. I dont think this is asking to much.
Thank you for our time."
and they responded in about 10 minutes (something they never did on the forums)
Hello,
You can transfer your character 3 months after the launch of the North American server. The announcement can be found here:
http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=198228
We’re afraid that there is no other transfer option available at this time.
Thank you,
Darkfall Support
While I appreciate their fast response, and I appreciate them being upfront, I think they misled (not out right lied) many of us NA players, and charging us twice is simply uncalled for. I had planned on playing DF again for the next few months to check out the new expansion... but I simply cant justify buying the game again, and paying on a server with a 120 - 160 ping as opposed to a 20 ping just isnt going to work for me.
Comments
It would have killed the US server if they allowed transfers on day 1.
Maybe they originally did plan to launch the US server and allow transfers at the same time. It was clear though that this wouldn't work to everyone shortly before they opened the server. They made the right call.
The reason they haven't announced what restrictions will be in place is because they don't know. They need to see how things are balanced a little closer to the transfers. If there is still a massive gap then they need tougher restrictions. If the gap has narrowed a lot, then lighter restrictions. its better not to say anythng until they are sure.
TBH I think all US players are lucky AV are offering this at all. I can't think of any other major MMO that allowed transfers from EU to US or US to EU. WoW don't, WAR don't, AOC don't, AION won't. I wish I could have transfered my Druid from the US servers to the EU ones even if he had to be naked and poor when he arrived.
Well losing 1 player seems alot when you only have 10 ppl playing.
Trolls = Hardcore
Fanbois = Carebears
The only posts I read in threads are my own.
I completely agree with ya Pyro. I was in the same boat. I could have dealt with the bugs and the exploits as with any new game, but being mislead into thinking I'd be at the very least be allowed "one character per server (yep, AV actually had that listed when I bought the game) is just too much to overlook.
Oh well, more games on the horizon and, in the meantime, more harley ridin time.
No disrespect Kaz, but did you read the thread?
We dont want TRANSFERS, we want a BLANK NEW NA account, with NOTHING on it. I dont care about my EU toon, I simply want to be able to play on the NA server.
I completely agree that transfers would be bad.
As for us being lucky, well...no...we were promised something by a dev company. There is no luck in it at all. Also, all other games were rather open that there would be no transfers...AV was very clear that they would help NA players on EU. This is the difference.
Well I recently paid the $50 and bought a US account, and closed my EU subscription.
Being aussie my ping reduced from about 440 to 210.
While 210 is still outside your acceptable range, it plays fine.
You realise that $50 includes a month of playtime right, so its effectively $35.
So what your telling me is your an old UO player, who likes this game but wont fork out a measley $35 to this small development house to play this game because of some moral indignation. You sir are a tool.
I'm more than happy to help finance future development of the best MMO since UO.
So what if they are better developers than business people, I have to admit being the same, life goes on.
Please go take your moral indignation somewhere else and go have a good cry.
I'll just go have fun ingame.
Have a nice life, a good day, or whatever it is you passive aggressive yanks say.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
No disrespect Pyro, but did you just come back from a tour of duty in Iraq?
This is such old news and when it was fresh there were a dozen threads raising the exact same points you did here.
Yeah, it sort of sucks, but if you really like DF, you won't mind either waiting or paying the extra sub fee.
50 bucks is such a small amount to pay for a game that probably won't survive w/o strong support from their fanbase.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I understood it to be fresh in his mind cause he just attempted to get resolution to no avail.
That aside, at least for me, it's a principle issue, not a money issue.
Wow...
Thats some hate there bro. The main issue is I have to buy accounts for my family. My father, brother, and myself. that measly 35 as you say spikes up to 105.00 as opposed to 45. Thats a 50% savings.
Lets talk about my 20 many guild, thats 700 instead of 300. So yeah... Im a bit disappointed. I do enjoy UO, and DF... looks good. However, not good enough for me to buy the game twice. For you it was, and Im glad you did. However, when a small dev company comes out and makes a product, and I take a risk on them, and they promise me that they will take care of me, then dont, and demand I repurchase the game... its only natural for me not to want to give them more money.
If you personally dont have an issue with it, thats fine. However, when someone tells me one thing, then does another, it tends to ruffle my feathers a bit. You are a much more forgiving man than I.
Exactly... and thats why it makes no business sense to run off a portion of your player base THAT YOU NEED.
Its simple Economics folks. Does AV make money off people who buy accounts? Yes. Does AV make money off of people who sub? yes.
However, subs after 3 months surpase the initial investment, and are therefore what you target most. Box sales are a nice initial influx, but they dont feed you.
There have been guestimates about anywhere from 500 - 1000 people quitting over this... I dont know how accurate that is, but its still a very substantial amount of cash for AV to lose, for basically honoring something they said.
People like myself wont rebuy the game, if they give me a NA account, I will pay. As long as the folks who quit are greater than the new subs... then its a stupid move. If the folks who bought the game again, are greater long time customers than those of us who quit, then its a good move.
I havent seen AV's books, but from what folks in game are saying about populations, and the sheer lack of movement on the forums, I am led to believe that AV needs retention a lot more than it needs to be running people off.
Are you all so eager to bash someone you can't see a simple truth?
He's having to buy the same thing twice. He's willing to start over with a new char, which makes sense, and I think everyone should start square on NA.
He's not bashing the game, if anything just the opposite. This is blatantly crooked behavior.
Asdar
Wow...
Thats some hate there bro. The main issue is I have to buy accounts for my family. My father, brother, and myself. that measly 35 as you say spikes up to 105.00 as opposed to 45. Thats a 50% savings.
Lets talk about my 20 many guild, thats 700 instead of 300. So yeah... Im a bit disappointed. I do enjoy UO, and DF... looks good. However, not good enough for me to buy the game twice. For you it was, and Im glad you did. However, when a small dev company comes out and makes a product, and I take a risk on them, and they promise me that they will take care of me, then dont, and demand I repurchase the game... its only natural for me not to want to give them more money.
If you personally dont have an issue with it, thats fine. However, when someone tells me one thing, then does another, it tends to ruffle my feathers a bit. You are a much more forgiving man than I.
Pyrostasis. Why the hell are you fighting for a decent game that's backed by a manipulative-hack of a company? Are you THAT masochistic and desperate for a UO-style game? Seriously, stop it. You've been aware of their corrupt business practices since earlier, why care enough that you allow yourself the possibility of being suckered in? Please man, have more integrity and stop supporting this company. The game is decent, fine... but the company is a load of shazbot. Stop supporting them by caring and paying them! And y'know what, spread the word while you're at it--- Darkfall is great, Aventurine sucks!
I will not be purchasing a second DF account.
Adventurine said they would take care of us ... and we ended up getting bent over ...
Oh well, DF isn't that good anyway ... for a game that was supposed to be the spiritual successor to UO it's missing three quarters of the things that Made UO great.
MMO Strategy Guides
Slight update.
After I got the response, I replied with the following.
"Alright, then you lose my business and those of my friends and family.
I personally think this is a bad business choice that is going to lose you many players and is something that could easily be fixed by your company. Simply close EU accounts for those NA players who wish to move, and allow them EMPTY FRESH new NA accounts in turn.
Seems pretty simple to me, and would go a long way to making your customers happy... not to mention simply the added revenue of a few hundred extra subs.
But its your business and your company.
Best of luck"
They then replied with.
"Hello,
Thank you for taking an active role in improving Darkfall. We will carefully consider your feedback and may further contact you if we find it necessary.
Thank you,
Darkfall Support"
Assuming this wasnt a cut and past / standard response... then maybe someone at AV is listening. We will see.
That sums up how I feel pretty well.
@OP - No one is forcing you to buy the client again for yourself or your family, but you do have to wait another 60ish days now as you were told on June 24th. forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
Quote: Tasos Wrote on June 24, 2009
American players wanting to clone and transfer their characters do not have to buy another client. Everyone else needs to buy the American Darkfall client to play on the American server. The European rights and the American rights to Darkfall do not belong to the same company, therefore you cannot freely transfer between the two territories, as is the case with most MMORPGs. Our offer of character cloning / transfer to American players is because we had said that we would try to accommodate them should they want to start playing on the European server.
Have a nice day.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Yes we can transfer in 60 days, for a fee.
I dont care about my character, I simply want to be able to play on the new NA server, which AV led many of us to believe. We asked many many times for clarity, and AV refused to clarify. This led us to assume we would all be moved over at NA release. Many people on the forums would ask, and then get that as an answer, and no one from AV ever stepped in to correct the assumption.
If AV doesnt want my business, thats more than fine. I can understand that, and maybe Im a small enough demographic that they can afford to ignore me and those that feel like me.
However, no one can deny that this was handled poorly and communicated to us the customers in such a way that was damn near criminal.
I am an unbiased outsider on this ,so i wil ltel lyou how i see it.
They are stil lgiving the NA players a choice to merger but only after 3 months,this seems decently fair,for one simple reason.You guys already joined the EU servers ,and had no idea when the NA servers would become active,so you guys were full willing to play on those EU servers for whatever amount of time.So now that an actual time limit comes out,i do not think you should be that angry,since yo uwere willing to play there anyhow.
If you still can't see the logic,then imagine if the US servers came about 1 year from now?then you would be playing on the EU servers far longer than the 3 months,and you guys were not complaining.So you do have a choice and they are not FROCING you to buy another copy,you can continue playing just the same as you always have been,nothing changes it.
In FFXI after we make a server change ,we are also subject to a waiting period of 90 days i think before we can make another change.It actually makes good sense,imagine the pain in the ass it would be if players were allowed to switch back and forth when ever they felt like it,the system MUST have restrictions,90 days is fair IMO.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
What he is really mad about is not having the option to delete his EU character and start over on NA for free. I agree with him in wanting that. I wanted that too, but AV explained there are International licensing issues that effect this. I accepted that and went with my choice. Others refuse to accept that and complain. They may be right; they may be wrong; but for "me" I save such anxiety over issues in life that mean some thing. Complaining about this is beyond the pale, but hey, every one is entitled to their opinion.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
Pyro bud, you're on your own this go round. I was almost tempted to dredge up all the old posts with past AV evidence to illustrate yet again how, unlike most games who make no mention of cross server movement or other arrangements, they gave the impression beyond a reasonable doubt that we'd have access to NA1, without mention of further fees etc. Buuuut then I got tired just thinking about it all over again.
If anyone is interested in the brainbashing, by all means take a look around these forums. There are plenty of threads devoted to discussing this very topic.
Fortunately for me, I didn't find the game that captivating in it's present state, so the decision was easy. Had it been a better game, AV might have succeeded in getting more of my money despite my conscience's protest.
What he is really mad about is not having the option to delete his EU character and start over on NA for free. I agree with him in wanting that. I wanted that too, but AV explained there are International licensing issues that effect this. I accepted that and went with my choice. Others refuse to accept that and complain. They may be right; they may be wrong; but for "me" I save such anxiety over issues in life that mean some thing. Complaining about this is beyond the pale, but hey, every one is entitled to their opinion.
-CC
Problem is china, there are no license issues.
In a recent interview Tasos said that the company distributing in NA was a subsidiary of AV...as in its a sub company of AV, as in AV owns it.
There are no license issues with ones self.
Its threads like this that remind me to stay a mainstream Tier 1 mmo gamer. Sorry but if you are not a 50million dollar house I dont even join the alpha.
What he is really mad about is not having the option to delete his EU character and start over on NA for free. I agree with him in wanting that. I wanted that too, but AV explained there are International licensing issues that effect this. I accepted that and went with my choice. Others refuse to accept that and complain. They may be right; they may be wrong; but for "me" I save such anxiety over issues in life that mean some thing. Complaining about this is beyond the pale, but hey, every one is entitled to their opinion.
-CC
Problem is china, there are no license issues.
In a recent interview Tasos said that the company distributing in NA was a subsidiary of AV...as in its a sub company of AV, as in AV owns it.
There are no license issues with ones self.
I'm not an attorney, but have a few I pay a lot of money to. I have a joint venture in the US with a company outside of the US and we are subject to many International rules. There are tax implications you are not aware of when doing business like this, and some thing called a Nexus. Bottom line is while it may be as simple as you see it, it likely is not. Rather than spend days and weeks trying to explain it, AV clearly state what the terms of use would be. It really does come down to $35 an account to start new on NA if you don't want to wait. The fact you have multiple accounts I can empathize with, but with all due respect I feel you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
-CC
"Lately it occurs to me,
what a long, strange trip it's been". -Hunter
What he is really mad about is not having the option to delete his EU character and start over on NA for free. I agree with him in wanting that. I wanted that too, but AV explained there are International licensing issues that effect this. I accepted that and went with my choice. Others refuse to accept that and complain. They may be right; they may be wrong; but for "me" I save such anxiety over issues in life that mean some thing. Complaining about this is beyond the pale, but hey, every one is entitled to their opinion.
-CC
Problem is china, there are no license issues.
In a recent interview Tasos said that the company distributing in NA was a subsidiary of AV...as in its a sub company of AV, as in AV owns it.
There are no license issues with ones self.
I'm not an attorney, but have a few I pay a lot of money to. I have a joint venture in the US with a company outside of the US and we are subject to many International rules. There are tax implications you are not aware of when doing business like this, and some thing called a Nexus. Bottom line is while it may be as simple as you see it, it likely is not. Rather than spend days and weeks trying to explain it, AV clearly state what the terms of use would be. It really does come down to $35 an account to start new on NA if you don't want to wait. The fact you have multiple accounts I can empathize with, but with all due respect I feel you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
-CC
Definitely subject to rules, but a partner, and ownership are two separate things.
"For all intended purposes Aventurine is self-publishing in N. America with partner and external investor support."
Thats a direct quote from AV, he is saying right there, that they own the rights, and are simply taking investor money from third party folks.
But who knows, Im not a lawyer. I do know how LLC's work, and as a business owner with a few of them myself, I know I own all 3 of my businesses and would be able to do what Im asking fairly easily, but maybe its not the case with them.
Av did not clearly state what the terms would be, the terms were changed AFTER the announcement to reflect what they are now doing. Regardless, this is just a final attempt on my part to get someone at AV to make th call I want them to make. If they dont...oh well Im just one customer.
Exactly right. How zealous do fanboys have to get to excuse shady practices?
Or maybe they're not fanboys, but people who answered an ad on how to "make money while surfing the internet."
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You are missing the point. Yes, WOW /WAR/AOC/AION doesn't allow inter-country server transfers, but they never sold their EU version with promises that they WOULD allow it. That is the whole point of the original post - AV misled (lied?) when they promised what they did not deliver.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
What he is really mad about is not having the option to delete his EU character and start over on NA for free. I agree with him in wanting that. I wanted that too, but AV explained there are International licensing issues that effect this. I accepted that and went with my choice. Others refuse to accept that and complain. They may be right; they may be wrong; but for "me" I save such anxiety over issues in life that mean some thing. Complaining about this is beyond the pale, but hey, every one is entitled to their opinion.
-CC
Problem is china, there are no license issues.
In a recent interview Tasos said that the company distributing in NA was a subsidiary of AV...as in its a sub company of AV, as in AV owns it.
There are no license issues with ones self.
Reminds me of the coke zero commercial were coca cola was suing itself.
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