I find the dumbest and most braindead people to be the best grinders.
See what I did there?
The grinders are usually the best players in the game.
There has never been, and never will be an epic casual player.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
It was a good laugh. On a second thought, when I read some answers, people seem to even believe this and this is kinda "dangerous". Ok, guys: Doing the same thing over and over for hours without thinking, like pressing *click,1,2,3*, makes you DUMB. Mental discipline...lol. I am yet missing the *it is because of the lore* argument.
Well, I don't believe that the grinding itself builds mental discipline but it can be used in a positive way.
For one, I do some of my best thinking while grinding. I essenially put on good music, perhaps a good beer or wine and I start. I relax and can really think about things. It's a bit zen for me.
For instance, I used it to outline a good part of a play I've been working on as well as solve some musical issues that I was having with another project.
For me it's about sitting still and just allowing myself to think in a relaxed way.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
what I don't get is why people focus so much time on the video game grind when they could spend that time on real-life grinds that are far more rewarding. and don't say thats a matter of perspective. your health, your education, and your career are the only grinds you should really worry about. the rest is all fun for fun. if playing vids in any way has become "a grind" then I think you're wasting your time.
maybe I should've also included the girlfriend grind?
I completely agree. Of course, going by his other posts, all MMO's should only be grinds and that training mobs, harassing players and camping players should be the only goals and skills needed. Anyway.....I agree with Sovrath above that grinding can lead you to deep thinking. However so can anything. I have plenty of time to think while I am doing other mundane activities. When I am cleaning my house, I am not thinking about cleaning, I am thinking about other stuff. Grinding is truly more than just a repetitive task. It is a repetitive task with no real immediate reward and also a state of mind that leads to very simplistic or mind-numbing thought process (when taken itself). Nothing about the activity itself is rewarding until a lot later on (and these rewards can be debated). As you said, it is toil. The best example of toil is "The Myth of Sisyphus". Written by Albert Camus, it explains that Sisyphus was damned to hell by the gods. In hell for Eternity, he was condemned to roll a huge boulder up a hill, only to stop and watch it roll back down. Camus uses this to illustrate our daily lives - the daily grind as it is called. Get up, go to work, come home, sleep and repeat. It is not very rewarding (and remember Camus like Sartre was an existentialist so rewards like money and cars don't count). Camus says that for him, that pause is what interests him. That pause where Sisyphus goes back down the hill to repeat his task. In that moment Sisyphus is alive and has his reason for being - he is greater than his toil and he must be "happy". Sorry to get so philosophical but its my fav story and I use it in my classes. And to relate it to this thread - the grind itself isn't the reward, it is why we grind. If we grind in MMO's for other reasons like spending time with friends, or as Sovrath says use it to think of bigger things, meet new people, etc..... then the grind isn't a grind. We are greater than the grind and it stops being a grind or a toil. Therefore the "mental discipline" comes from being greater than the grind and not the grind itself. That has to be the most serious thing I have ever typed on these forums.
Ok. I have cleaned up this thread a little bit. Let's stay on topic with this one. Some of you have some really good input on this discussion and I would much rather keep it going than locking it down at this point.
Carry on the discussion, but keep the rules of conduct in mind everyone.
Why would anyone be concerned at all with discipline at all in a video game of all things? Shouldn't you measure a game on how fun it is?
MMO gaming is becoming more like a social medium and less like a game. It's a virtual chat room and all the levels, gear and ranking simply increase your social status within the medium. Sometimes fun can take a back seat to having all the best gear and best stats.
I find the most disciplined and best players tend to be the best grinders. Grinding builds discipline. Maybe that's why RPG players from asian territories generally outplay and outclass players from other regions.
Right your point being, grinding= discipline and nothing to do with Aion.... Whys this thread still under Aion? Aion is not a grinder anyway and hes speaking about asian grinders in general.
When you're unhappy with yourself as a person, you tend to be harder on youself, and put yourself through situations that aren't exactly fun.
The OP is obviously unhappy with himself, and so he feels the need to torture himself with hours of grinding so that in the end, he'll be good at a game that not many people would even think twice about trying out of sheer boredom.
To be special.
And no one will care.
Lineage 2 is built for you, OP. Please stay out of Aion, it's not grindy enough for you.
It was a good laugh. On a second thought, when I read some answers, people seem to even believe this and this is kinda "dangerous". Ok, guys: Doing the same thing over and over for hours without thinking, like pressing *click,1,2,3*, makes you DUMB. Mental discipline...lol. I am yet missing the *it is because of the lore* argument.
ever seen fight club? I understand the WHOLE story behind it but think about the part where Tyler put that shit on his hand and was teaching him about pain.. It would be looked at as being DUMB by alot of people BUT it was to serve a purpose and that purpose was forgetting about pain, mental discipline.. sitting there clicking 1,2,3 might make you "DUMB" to some people but what if you wanted to join the military and they made you do it, to see if you were able to concentrate on one task no matter how small or stupid in order to get the job done.
You are so cool, but you fail to understand the complete argument that is to be had here..
ever seen fight club? I understand the WHOLE story behind it but think about the part where Tyler put that shit on his hand and was teaching him about pain.. It would be looked at as being DUMB by alot of people BUT it was to serve a purpose and that purpose was forgetting about pain, mental discipline.. sitting there clicking 1,2,3 might make you "DUMB" to some people but what if you wanted to join the military and they made you do it, to see if you were able to concentrate on one task no matter how small or stupid in order to get the job done. You are so cool, but you fail to understand the complete argument that is to be had here..
The reason the military trains soldiers in such a way is precisely to make them mindless order-following drones.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by templarga Sorry to get so philosophical but its my fav story and I use it in my classes. And to relate it to this thread - the grind itself isn't the reward, it is why we grind. If we grind in MMO's for other reasons like spending time with friends, or as Sovrath says use it to think of bigger things, meet new people, etc..... then the grind isn't a grind. We are greater than the grind and it stops being a grind or a toil. Therefore the "mental discipline" comes from being greater than the grind and not the grind itself. That has to be the most serious thing I have ever typed on these forums.
The way to be greater than the grind is to refuse to do it. There might be wisdom in surrender, but there is no victory or nobility.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Holy crap alot of you guys are just purely shut down and closed off.
STOP USING LITERAL WORDS TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS!
Yes alot of games have grinds. Doesn't make them work. Yes Aion is a game. Doesn't mean it's nothing about play.
Why? Because it's a complicated system with many enjoyable things, some of which you have to spend effort to do. Doesn't mean you need to study for a test or exert high concentration levels in all aspects (because some aspects you do). It's not necessarily physical, although it can be, it isn't always social, although it can be.
Definitive lines to seperate "play" and "grind" are better saved for those that play "Candyland" and "Hungry Hungry Hippo".
Go play them. Voicing an opinion is cool and all, but trying to sit here and define Aion as any one type of anything isn't doing anything well to impress anyone. It's a matter of interpretation since many people find many different aspects enjoyable.
The grind itself can be very enjoyable depending on the context of the grind. For example in SWG (a long long time ago) we would do spin groups, a person with great AOE and a healer. I personally love doing quests, it provides a smaller goal then just grind to the next level. However, if the grind is just beating your fists at a NPC for hours on end, I don’t believe that builds a better person or give mental discipline, I believe that just proves you are capable of shutting off your brain and repetitive clicking. If you are with a group of people, or in vent having happy hour then grinding can be a blast. I think it all boils down to the time and setting of the grind. Let’s be honest, in the end your playing a game. If you want mental discipline then take meditation classes.
Comments
The grinders are usually the best players in the game.
There has never been, and never will be an epic casual player.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Well, I don't believe that the grinding itself builds mental discipline but it can be used in a positive way.
For one, I do some of my best thinking while grinding. I essenially put on good music, perhaps a good beer or wine and I start. I relax and can really think about things. It's a bit zen for me.
For instance, I used it to outline a good part of a play I've been working on as well as solve some musical issues that I was having with another project.
For me it's about sitting still and just allowing myself to think in a relaxed way.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
what I don't get is why people focus so much time on the video game grind when they could spend that time on real-life grinds that are far more rewarding. and don't say thats a matter of perspective. your health, your education, and your career are the only grinds you should really worry about. the rest is all fun for fun. if playing vids in any way has become "a grind" then I think you're wasting your time.
maybe I should've also included the girlfriend grind?
Someone should start a thread called: How different MMOs change its players psyche. I guess WOW would be well discussed then.
uh grinding = wax on, wax off.
Say hello, To the things you've left behind. They are more a part of your life now that you can't touch them.
Well put.
Ok. I have cleaned up this thread a little bit. Let's stay on topic with this one. Some of you have some really good input on this discussion and I would much rather keep it going than locking it down at this point.
Carry on the discussion, but keep the rules of conduct in mind everyone.
MMORPG.com Staff
Derek Gordon
And the name of your legion is?
Sheep lovers, maybe.
Why would anyone be concerned at all with discipline at all in a video game of all things? Shouldn't you measure a game on how fun it is?
Games are meant to be fun.
Not boring grind deemed "hardwork"
Why would you pick up a game to add more "hardwork" to your life? Or you could play something entertaining and fun. Your logic confuses me op.
Rift
MMO gaming is becoming more like a social medium and less like a game. It's a virtual chat room and all the levels, gear and ranking simply increase your social status within the medium. Sometimes fun can take a back seat to having all the best gear and best stats.
Right your point being, grinding= discipline and nothing to do with Aion.... Whys this thread still under Aion? Aion is not a grinder anyway and hes speaking about asian grinders in general.
When you're unhappy with yourself as a person, you tend to be harder on youself, and put yourself through situations that aren't exactly fun.
The OP is obviously unhappy with himself, and so he feels the need to torture himself with hours of grinding so that in the end, he'll be good at a game that not many people would even think twice about trying out of sheer boredom.
To be special.
And no one will care.
Lineage 2 is built for you, OP. Please stay out of Aion, it's not grindy enough for you.
Or you could just stop wasting time in a mmorpg and learn to meditate properly.
@?
Im good at grinding, but it doesn't mean I enjoy it.
I may complain to my friends that some grinding parts maybe getting dull, but i'll still do it.
Will I get cap level? Without a doubt.
I've eaten enough salad, give me my meat and potatos.
Pledge your support to creating a PvP Community on Aion. Join our server on release.
http://aionfactions.homelinux.com
ever seen fight club? I understand the WHOLE story behind it but think about the part where Tyler put that shit on his hand and was teaching him about pain.. It would be looked at as being DUMB by alot of people BUT it was to serve a purpose and that purpose was forgetting about pain, mental discipline.. sitting there clicking 1,2,3 might make you "DUMB" to some people but what if you wanted to join the military and they made you do it, to see if you were able to concentrate on one task no matter how small or stupid in order to get the job done.
You are so cool, but you fail to understand the complete argument that is to be had here..
I could make some comments about 'hive mind' behaviour, but I won't.
Grinds are a great way to reward lazy and greedy game devs.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The reason the military trains soldiers in such a way is precisely to make them mindless order-following drones.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The way to be greater than the grind is to refuse to do it. There might be wisdom in surrender, but there is no victory or nobility.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Holy crap alot of you guys are just purely shut down and closed off.
STOP USING LITERAL WORDS TO SUIT YOUR NEEDS!
Yes alot of games have grinds. Doesn't make them work. Yes Aion is a game. Doesn't mean it's nothing about play.
Why? Because it's a complicated system with many enjoyable things, some of which you have to spend effort to do. Doesn't mean you need to study for a test or exert high concentration levels in all aspects (because some aspects you do). It's not necessarily physical, although it can be, it isn't always social, although it can be.
Definitive lines to seperate "play" and "grind" are better saved for those that play "Candyland" and "Hungry Hungry Hippo".
Go play them. Voicing an opinion is cool and all, but trying to sit here and define Aion as any one type of anything isn't doing anything well to impress anyone. It's a matter of interpretation since many people find many different aspects enjoyable.
The grind itself can be very enjoyable depending on the context of the grind. For example in SWG (a long long time ago) we would do spin groups, a person with great AOE and a healer. I personally love doing quests, it provides a smaller goal then just grind to the next level. However, if the grind is just beating your fists at a NPC for hours on end, I don’t believe that builds a better person or give mental discipline, I believe that just proves you are capable of shutting off your brain and repetitive clicking. If you are with a group of people, or in vent having happy hour then grinding can be a blast. I think it all boils down to the time and setting of the grind. Let’s be honest, in the end your playing a game. If you want mental discipline then take meditation classes.