More fun for more money, but not everyone has the same amount of money to spend on the stuff. There is the unfairness.
Ah yes. The age-old income argument. Honestly, thank you for pointing out the obvious there. I was unaware that everyone's income was different. Imagine my surprise to find that a game company is responsible for this! I mean, clearly everyone should earn the same wage - and it is Cryptic/Atari's fault for offering other things to purchase.
Tell me, are you one of those people who would go to a fast food restaurant (example) and complain that items on the menu have different prices? Or maybe you claim it is unfair that there is more than one item? Would you be offended if they offered to upsize your meal for fifty cents? Perhaps you would get upset that they guy behind you ordered more food?
"But fast food restaurants do not have monthly fees!" I foresee you feverishly typing in an attempt to nit-pick. (No offense, just going off your track record.) Right, then allow the use of another example: Memberships, be it for any service. Would you be one of those people who complains about it being unfair for Mr. Expensive Business-Level is getting more features than you, Mr. Minimum Features-Level?
Now imagine that they ask, "Why is it unfair of us to offer the Business-Level service?" You provide the answer, "He earns more than me!" Would you honestly expect to be taken seriously? Do you think that argument is reasonable?
I'm exhausting rhetoric but I think I've said enough to get my point across.
EDIT: Grammar. EDIT: Yes, riddled with scenarios, replace the "you" where appropriate if it hurts "your" fragile feelings.
cfurlin - "When are you flakey gamers going to realize that game development is a business."
More fun for more money, but not everyone has the same amount of money to spend on the stuff. There is the unfairness.
Ah yes. The age-old income argument. Honestly, thank you for pointing out the obvious there. I was unaware that everyone's income was different. Imagine my surprise to find that a game company is responsible for this! I mean, clearly everyone should earn the same wage - and it is Cryptic/Atari's fault for offering other things to purchase.
Tell me, are you one of those people who go to a fast food restaurant, for example, and complain that items on the menu have different prices? Or maybe you claim it is unfair that there is more than one item? Would you be offended if they offered to upsize your meal for fifty cents? Perhaps you would get upset that they guy behind you ordered more food?
"But fast food restaurants do not have monthly fees!" I foresee you feverishly typing in an attempt to nit-pick. (No offense, just going off your track record.) Right, then allow the use of another example: Memberships, be it for any service. Would you be one of those people who complains about it being unfair for Mr. Expensive Business-Level is getting more features than you, Mr Cheap Minimum Features-Level?
Now imagine that they ask, "Why is it unfair of us to offer the Business-Level service?" You provide the answer, "He earns more than me!" Would you honestly expect to be taken seriously? Do you think that argument is reasonable?
I'm exhausting rhetoric but I think I've said enough to get my point across.
Yeah that phrase of theirs stood out to me too. It sounded a little bit like communism. Not in any bad sense of the word, just the "everyone should have the same amount of resources and opportunities of everyone else". Like you said, we're all different. Different lifestyles, different income, different amounts of leisure time. MT's minimal impact deals with the income part of life, and none of the others. People with more free time can potentially have more perks in game than someone with minimal free time but more money.
If people with more money shouldn't be able to get little perks, then people with more free time should be limited too, right? At least that's what the "equality for everyone" approach leads to.
I don't complain when someone has more time than me and using that time yields more XP and loot for them. So I'm definitely not going to complain that someone with more money than me can get extra frivolous things (or even not-so-frivolous) in a game.
Wow Doubter, just wow. You ask me to prove the quote, and I give you the direct words of the man himself. You then say "believe it when you see the game". So you ask me to prove it and when I do you just claim one of the lead designers is lying. That's astounding. How can you expect us to take you seriously? Not only that, but we in fact, see it in the game right now! I showed you the link of the store itself! You were shown actual proof and yet you still deny. Come on man. Have a little common sense here.
You also don't seem to understand the points you're arguing. I said as long as the most popular MMOs are charging the same rate, that becomes the standard. Of course someone will eventually charge more. That's where the modifier "as long as" comes in.
More fun for more money? Is that really what you're arguing is unfair? What about expansion packs. If I can't afford the latest expansion pack to my favourite game, do I get to complain it's unfair that other people can afford to buy it and play the new content while I cannot? Think about that, expansion packs are basically giant lump-sump versions of microtransactions. Except with MTs you get to pick and choose what you spend your money on, instead of having to buy the whole thing. As other people have pointed out (in addition to myself I might add), there will always be some way that someone gets an advantage over you by having more money. If you wanted that advantage enough, you would get more money and buy it. Nobody's forcing anyone to buy anything from the cash store. If you want it bad enough, you'll buy it. Otherwise you can live without.
More character slots doesn't change the game for me. I believe we get 8 with our accounts, and I doubt I'll use more than 3 at the most. Thus I won't need to worry about buying an extra character slot. If other people want to why should I care? Also you might be interested to find that many MMOs without MTs have much fewer character slots than CO. Some games have only 3 or 4, while some have 10 per server. These numbers are decided by the devs on an individual basis. It's their game so they get to choose, not you.
Along that line as well, you mentioned respecs. Some games have no respec option whatsoever. Some games let you completely respec whenever you want. Some games charge ingame currency. Again, this is decided by developers on the way they want their game to play. Champions has decided to go with a limited respec system. This means you can respec the last 10 or so of your choices, but with increasing costs. This allows you to change your mind while you're still getting used to a power, without letting you just completely change your character to the flavour of the month every time you feel like it. As long as you're careful about how long you go before you change your mind, it won't cause a problem. If they offer complete respecs in the store, I don't think it will have gone too far. There's nothing wrong with that. If someone decides they need a complete change, and want it bad enough that they're willing to pay for a full respec, why shouldn't they get it? You shouldn't need that if you simply plan ahead or avoid changing your mind after a long time. So what do I care if someone pays to switch to the flavour of the month? It doesn't have anything to do with my character. But that's not why you oppose it is it? No I know the real reason. You see this person getting a respec that they paid for and you think you should get that too, but for free. This other person wants it bad enough to pay for it, but you think you deserve that option for free.
Unfortunately, that's life. You can envy someone's money or advantages all you want, but until you want it bad enough to get it for yourself, you live without. Complaining about it is like peeing your pants. Sure people can tell you're upset, but you're the only one feeling the trickle down your leg.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Wow Doubter, just wow. You ask me to prove the quote, and I give you the direct words of the man himself. You then say "believe it when you see the game". So you ask me to prove it and when I do you just claim one of the lead designers is lying. That's astounding. How can you expect us to take you seriously? Not only that, but we in fact, see it in the game right now! I showed you the link of the store itself! You were shown actual proof and yet you still deny. Come on man. Have a little common sense here. You also don't seem to understand the points you're arguing. I said as long as the most popular MMOs are charging the same rate, that becomes the standard. Of course someone will eventually charge more. That's where the modifier "as long as" comes in. More fun for more money? Is that really what you're arguing is unfair? What about expansion packs. If I can't afford the latest expansion pack to my favourite game, do I get to complain it's unfair that other people can afford to buy it and play the new content while I cannot? Think about that, expansion packs are basically giant lump-sump versions of microtransactions. Except with MTs you get to pick and choose what you spend your money on, instead of having to buy the whole thing. As other people have pointed out (in addition to myself I might add), there will always be some way that someone gets an advantage over you by having more money. If you wanted that advantage enough, you would get more money and buy it. Nobody's forcing anyone to buy anything from the cash store. If you want it bad enough, you'll buy it. Otherwise you can live without. More character slots doesn't change the game for me. I believe we get 8 with our accounts, and I doubt I'll use more than 3 at the most. Thus I won't need to worry about buying an extra character slot. If other people want to why should I care? Also you might be interested to find that many MMOs without MTs have much fewer character slots than CO. Some games have only 3 or 4, while some have 10 per server. These numbers are decided by the devs on an individual basis. It's their game so they get to choose, not you. Along that line as well, you mentioned respecs. Some games have no respec option whatsoever. Some games let you completely respec whenever you want. Some games charge ingame currency. Again, this is decided by developers on the way they want their game to play. Champions has decided to go with a limited respec system. This means you can respec the last 10 or so of your choices, but with increasing costs. This allows you to change your mind while you're still getting used to a power, without letting you just completely change your character to the flavour of the month every time you feel like it. As long as you're careful about how long you go before you change your mind, it won't cause a problem. If they offer complete respecs in the store, I don't think it will have gone too far. There's nothing wrong with that. If someone decides they need a complete change, and want it bad enough that they're willing to pay for a full respec, why shouldn't they get it? You shouldn't need that if you simply plan ahead or avoid changing your mind after a long time. So what do I care if someone pays to switch to the flavour of the month? It doesn't have anything to do with my character. But that's not why you oppose it is it? No I know the real reason. You see this person getting a respec that they paid for and you think you should get that too, but for free. This other person wants it bad enough to pay for it, but you think you deserve that option for free. Unfortunately, that's life. You can envy someone's money or advantages all you want, but until you want it bad enough to get it for yourself, you live without. Complaining about it is like peeing your pants. Sure people can tell you're upset, but you're the only one feeling the trickle down your leg.
This is why doubter is on my block list. He is pretty much just trolling. Doesn't matter what you say to him he will just argue it.
Wow Doubter, just wow. You ask me to prove the quote, and I give you the direct words of the man himself. You then say "believe it when you see the game". So you ask me to prove it and when I do you just claim one of the lead designers is lying. That's astounding. How can you expect us to take you seriously? Not only that, but we in fact, see it in the game right now! I showed you the link of the store itself! You were shown actual proof and yet you still deny. Come on man. Have a little common sense here. You also don't seem to understand the points you're arguing. I said as long as the most popular MMOs are charging the same rate, that becomes the standard. Of course someone will eventually charge more. That's where the modifier "as long as" comes in. More fun for more money? Is that really what you're arguing is unfair? What about expansion packs. If I can't afford the latest expansion pack to my favourite game, do I get to complain it's unfair that other people can afford to buy it and play the new content while I cannot? Think about that, expansion packs are basically giant lump-sump versions of microtransactions. Except with MTs you get to pick and choose what you spend your money on, instead of having to buy the whole thing. As other people have pointed out (in addition to myself I might add), there will always be some way that someone gets an advantage over you by having more money. If you wanted that advantage enough, you would get more money and buy it. Nobody's forcing anyone to buy anything from the cash store. If you want it bad enough, you'll buy it. Otherwise you can live without. More character slots doesn't change the game for me. I believe we get 8 with our accounts, and I doubt I'll use more than 3 at the most. Thus I won't need to worry about buying an extra character slot. If other people want to why should I care? Also you might be interested to find that many MMOs without MTs have much fewer character slots than CO. Some games have only 3 or 4, while some have 10 per server. These numbers are decided by the devs on an individual basis. It's their game so they get to choose, not you. Along that line as well, you mentioned respecs. Some games have no respec option whatsoever. Some games let you completely respec whenever you want. Some games charge ingame currency. Again, this is decided by developers on the way they want their game to play. Champions has decided to go with a limited respec system. This means you can respec the last 10 or so of your choices, but with increasing costs. This allows you to change your mind while you're still getting used to a power, without letting you just completely change your character to the flavour of the month every time you feel like it. As long as you're careful about how long you go before you change your mind, it won't cause a problem. If they offer complete respecs in the store, I don't think it will have gone too far. There's nothing wrong with that. If someone decides they need a complete change, and want it bad enough that they're willing to pay for a full respec, why shouldn't they get it? You shouldn't need that if you simply plan ahead or avoid changing your mind after a long time. So what do I care if someone pays to switch to the flavour of the month? It doesn't have anything to do with my character. But that's not why you oppose it is it? No I know the real reason. You see this person getting a respec that they paid for and you think you should get that too, but for free. This other person wants it bad enough to pay for it, but you think you deserve that option for free. Unfortunately, that's life. You can envy someone's money or advantages all you want, but until you want it bad enough to get it for yourself, you live without. Complaining about it is like peeing your pants. Sure people can tell you're upset, but you're the only one feeling the trickle down your leg.
This is why doubter is on my block list. He is pretty much just trolling. Doesn't matter what you say to him he will just argue it.
Just so everyone is clear, what is shown to be in cryptics MT store and what cryptic has said will be in the MT store are obviously 2 different things so far. That means cryptic will obviously be adding more items. When, what , and why will all be revealed in time. Currently, Cryptics words mean very little to me as in CB what they said and what they did are two different things, even to this day one of the game features on the CO site states clearly "No more boring auto attacks and lengthy recharge times" yet as the game progressed through CB suddenly there were auto attacks, and just before launch... 15 second to 2 minute recharge times. There are other examples to of what cryptic preached isn't always what they perform...
This doesn't reflect my personal opinion on the game as I still like the game, and cryptic, but its not to say that cryptic will not add things later to the MT store because their situation has changed. For example, say, the MT store isn't making any money, well they'll need to figure out a way to make money won't they. Like cryptic has said before when talking about the champions PnP game, they had to modify the system to work for an MMO. Then they had to modify the combat system to work as a more MMO style combat system. Now they just might have to modify the MT system to be more like a MT system if THAT doesn't work. Its a recurring theme here that I see.......
They still did a good job on the game though, just don't take every word of theirs as scripture and believe it blindly.
But regardless of Cryptics implementation here, success is likely to open the door for other developers and the ease and impact with which a system that uses both MT's and Subs can be manipulated and exploited is really something that can only do harm in the future imo.
Got to love unsupported sweeping statements, you know the exact same thing has been said about human reproduction except there's far more evidence that more humans will do only harm in the future.
The facts, imo, is that the base sub price of 15 (insert name of currency here) has been stable for many years (perhaps someone can tell us when it became the standard) while the cost of non-mmo games had steadily risen over the years, as has the cost of developing and running mmo's. So the choice seems to be 4 fold
1) raise subs and become the most expensive mmo on the market
2) implement MT's along side P2P and take the hate
3) use an alternative revenue model other than P2P and hope that works
4) make games that are so bland and simple, based on popular IP's, that will appeal to millions of players, then sit back and pray
Cryptic are a small company with big ideas and those cost money and while investors always want more money back than they invested then the easiest, and best in terms of the companies surviability, source of revenue are the players.
Again look how much you pay for your average non-mmo game and how long you played it ..... please note that most games proudly advertise how many hours of gameplay you can expect (a figure you usually have to half to get a real estimate). Then look at how much you mmo has cost you and how many hours of play you get. Then do the math.
Whilst i personally don't find cryptic's solution to be the best for me, although i won't stop playing CO anytime soon, lets be realistic. There not criminals, they are not the 5th horseman of the apocalypse, there not here to ruin your life in some sordid plot to take over the universe, there just a company trying to do the best they can in tough economic times and with larger competition on all sides. Only time will tell if they got it right or not.
While I understand the reasons for the MT store (added income without a visable increase to the user) I think you just argued my point for me.
You yourself say that Cryptic is looking for a way to make more money without raising the base Sub price. Correct. In order to do that though the MT store "HAS" to sell items the players are willing / want to buy. Since a majority of people can live without "fluff" items (as is proven in most F2P / MT games currently) they will eventually have to sell game impacting items. This is where the "shadey" aspect comes in. They wont tell us what we can expect from the MT over the next 6mos (you can be damm sure they know whats going in for at least the next 6mos)
As you said MMO prices have stayed pretty static recently (I believe the last price increase was from $14.99 to $15.99 and happened around 2 years ago) so in fairness its about time they raised prices again. I'd rather Cryptic set a mo sub of $17.99 (or whatever) upfront to gain thier extra cash. You can be assured that the first MMO to set a higher price will have all the others falling in line within a few months anyway .. and were pretty much due a price raise anyway.
Even you said you dont find Cryptics solution the best for you .. and I agree. I'd rather an upfront cost. Its not the fact they have a MT that concerns me .. its the fact they are very reluctant to tell us what will be available in it. (A few broad statements is not a good indicator)
You are making assumptions that go against what Cryptic has already stated will be in the store. There was a long discussion on I believe tentonhammer about this. It will be appearance items.
Believe it or not a lot of people like the coolness factor and do buy this crap. eq2 has been doing this for quite awhile and they are making a ton of money on the item shop far more then they ever expected. Maybe people just don't care that it costs extra money to have a cool looking pet or some new appearance that is unique. I see some people in eq2 that litterally spend a fortune buying that crap. Personally I could care less. I like my characters appearance.
So this lets them keep the price fixed without increasing the cost and lets all the people with money to burn spend it buying junk.
You are making assumptions that go against what Cryptic has already stated will be in the store. There was a long discussion on I believe tentonhammer about this. It will be appearance items. Exclusively? Link? Believe it or not a lot of people like the coolness factor and do buy this crap. eq2 has been doing this for quite awhile and they are making a ton of money on the item shop far more then they ever expected. Maybe people just don't care that it costs extra money to have a cool looking pet or some new appearance that is unique. I see some people in eq2 that litterally spend a fortune buying that crap. Personally I could care less. I like my characters appearance. So this lets them keep the price fixed without increasing the cost and lets all the people with money to burn spend it buying junk.
It won't all be junk. When they start selling xp items, and damage buffs, and respecs, will you keep playing?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Considering that the head of Cryptic said he hated microtransactions and would never have them in their game 1 year ago I would be sceptic about anthing they say...
But that was before Atari bought them..
lol Atari!
If WoW = The Beatles and WAR = Led Zeppelin Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
It won't all be junk. When they start selling xp items, and damage buffs, and respecs, will you keep playing?
Foul, 10 yd penalty, stating opinion as fact
You have exactly as much proof they will sell those items as you do that they won't.
I understand your a glass half full kinda guy, but your refusal to even acknowledge the remaining half of the glass is starting to go beyond reasonablness and into requiring medical intervention.
I'm all for forcefully presenting your argument, but when you put your fingers in your ears and hum when anyone else says anything it kinda damages your position.
It won't all be junk. When they start selling xp items, and damage buffs, and respecs, will you keep playing?
Foul, 10 yd penalty, stating opinion as fact
You have exactly as much proof they will sell those items as you do that they won't.
I understand your a glass half full kinda guy, but your refusal to even acknowledge the remaining half of the glass is starting to go beyond reasonablness and into requiring medical intervention.
I'm all for forcefully presenting your argument, but when you put your fingers in your ears and hum when anyone else says anything it kinda damages your position.
I agree actually... I doubt they'll sell XP items anyways.... however.... respecs.... I bet they'll be selling those pretty soon.. as well as character slots, they mentioned selling those too.
Foul, 10 yd penalty, stating opinion as fact You have exactly as much proof they will sell those items as you do that they won't. I understand your a glass half full kinda guy, but your refusal to even acknowledge the remaining half of the glass is starting to go beyond reasonablness and into requiring medical intervention. I'm all for forcefully presenting your argument, but when you put your fingers in your ears and hum when anyone else says anything it kinda damages your position.
Actually, I believe pessimists are the "half-empty" type.
Yeah, it's my opinion. Should be clear, frankly. If I had stated that they were in the game now, then that would be a (mistaken) statement of fact. I'm not going to preface each post with "In my opinion." Knowledge of Human nature and familiarity with Cryptic's methods is what I'm basing those predictions on.
I won't be around when those things are put into the shop, so here's a pre-emptive "I told you so."
Have a drink in my name when it happens. "Damn him, Doubter was right!"
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
MMO's are like real life in you get out what you put in, the guy that raids more gets more usually, yet also like in real life luck has a role in things too. A new higher that lucks out and is in the right place at the right time with the right idea might get promoted. Thats just how life is, now I hate to say this but your never going to have an even playing feild mmo. IF a company limited your advancement in levels to so many hours a week no one would ever play that game.
MMO'S are not a giant social chat page with mini games, they are games and people play to get ahead. Sure people will buy some things, others will work for it. It all depends on the person. Even with games without MT's people will go to player auctions or other places and get what they want.
I am a power gamer, I know this sounds cruel but I also work a job and go to school, I sleep like 2-4 hours a day so I can power game. I also work out for an hour a day as well so I have a life, I have a job and obligations and I still devote 40 hours + a week to gaming. It's how I do things. So just cause person X has a problem with doing the work or paying for it doesn't mean I will be nice to them.
In the end it's up to players to decide what they want to do for themselves, but you can't decide that for others. My best friend only can play 2 hours a night if that much, I have a char for leveling with him. I do this cause he is my friend and I want him to have fun when he plays. Yet I still play my own way as well, I don't care that he is a causal player, he sees the world in ways I don't so I enjoy playing when he is on. In the end like I said it's your choice how you do things, so play it your way and forget the rest of the world.
Lifes about living it, games are about playing it, either way it only matters at all if you do it your way!
It won't all be junk. When they start selling xp items, and damage buffs, and respecs, will you keep playing?
Foul, 10 yd penalty, stating opinion as fact
You have exactly as much proof they will sell those items as you do that they won't.
I understand your a glass half full kinda guy, but your refusal to even acknowledge the remaining half of the glass is starting to go beyond reasonablness and into requiring medical intervention.
I'm all for forcefully presenting your argument, but when you put your fingers in your ears and hum when anyone else says anything it kinda damages your position.
I agree actually... I doubt they'll sell XP items anyways.... however.... respecs.... I bet they'll be selling those pretty soon.. as well as character slots, they mentioned selling those too.
Exactly, I doubt they'll sell XP items, myself, pretty much everything else mentioned is fine and I half expect it.
MMO's are like real life in you get out what you put in, the guy that raids more gets more usually, yet also like in real life luck has a role in things too. A new higher that lucks out and is in the right place at the right time with the right idea might get promoted. Thats just how life is, now I hate to say this but your never going to have an even playing feild mmo. IF a company limited your advancement in levels to so many hours a week no one would ever play that game. LOTS of people would. I have no doubt that being unable to keep up with hardcore players makes a lot of people quit on certain games and MMOs in general.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
More fun for more money, but not everyone has the same amount of money to spend on the stuff. There is the unfairness.
Ah yes. The age-old income argument. Honestly, thank you for pointing out the obvious there. I was unaware that everyone's income was different. Imagine my surprise to find that a game company is responsible for this! I mean, clearly everyone should earn the same wage - and it is Cryptic/Atari's fault for offering other things to purchase.
Tell me, are you one of those people who would go to a fast food restaurant (example) and complain that items on the menu have different prices? Or maybe you claim it is unfair that there is more than one item? Would you be offended if they offered to upsize your meal for fifty cents? Perhaps you would get upset that they guy behind you ordered more food?
"But fast food restaurants do not have monthly fees!" I foresee you feverishly typing in an attempt to nit-pick. (No offense, just going off your track record.) Right, then allow the use of another example: Memberships, be it for any service. Would you be one of those people who complains about it being unfair for Mr. Expensive Business-Level is getting more features than you, Mr. Minimum Features-Level?
Now imagine that they ask, "Why is it unfair of us to offer the Business-Level service?" You provide the answer, "He earns more than me!" Would you honestly expect to be taken seriously? Do you think that argument is reasonable?
I'm exhausting rhetoric but I think I've said enough to get my point across.
EDIT: Grammar. EDIT: Yes, riddled with scenarios, replace the "you" where appropriate if it hurts "your" fragile feelings.
I hate it when people try to compare things that can't be compared.
MMOs are not like fast food restaurants and are not like memberships to other services. A MMO is a game and by nature is competitive. How can you expect to be competitive if everyone is not on a level playing field? It's not that people don't have the money to spend on the game, it's that they don't want to spend more money on it.
The honest way to deal with their costs is to raise the sub fee, but Cryptic has shown little interest in being honest with anything to do with this game.
Everything they do stinks of 'shenanigans'.
All I could think of when reading this is:
"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"
The doom and gloomers crack me up. No one knows what will be added to the cash shop except for Cryptic. All you can do is guess that they'll be game changing items there. I can guess that there won't be. Who's right?
I'm playing the game and enjoying it for now. I only pay 10 bucks a month, which is great and a lot less than I pay for other P2P games that I'm subscribed to. I'm OK with the RMT for now, but NO ONE but Cryptic, knows what is going to go in there. It's waiting game to see where the game goes, and I will enjoy the game til they take it somewhere I don't think it should go. I left CoH after 4 years when they ruined the game with AE.
More fun for more money, but not everyone has the same amount of money to spend on the stuff. There is the unfairness.
Ah yes. The age-old income argument. Honestly, thank you for pointing out the obvious there. I was unaware that everyone's income was different. Imagine my surprise to find that a game company is responsible for this! I mean, clearly everyone should earn the same wage - and it is Cryptic/Atari's fault for offering other things to purchase.
Tell me, are you one of those people who would go to a fast food restaurant (example) and complain that items on the menu have different prices? Or maybe you claim it is unfair that there is more than one item? Would you be offended if they offered to upsize your meal for fifty cents? Perhaps you would get upset that they guy behind you ordered more food?
"But fast food restaurants do not have monthly fees!" I foresee you feverishly typing in an attempt to nit-pick. (No offense, just going off your track record.) Right, then allow the use of another example: Memberships, be it for any service. Would you be one of those people who complains about it being unfair for Mr. Expensive Business-Level is getting more features than you, Mr. Minimum Features-Level?
Now imagine that they ask, "Why is it unfair of us to offer the Business-Level service?" You provide the answer, "He earns more than me!" Would you honestly expect to be taken seriously? Do you think that argument is reasonable?
I'm exhausting rhetoric but I think I've said enough to get my point across.
EDIT: Grammar. EDIT: Yes, riddled with scenarios, replace the "you" where appropriate if it hurts "your" fragile feelings.
I hate it when people try to compare things that can't be compared.
MMOs are not like fast food restaurants and are not like memberships to other services. A MMO is a game and by nature is competitive. How can you expect to be competitive if everyone is not on a level playing field? It's not that people don't have the money to spend on the game, it's that they don't want to spend more money on it.
So it is a level playing field. Because its the same price for everyone. Its the consumers fault that he doesn't want to spend the money. It would be the same if their computers weren't up to par and they can't keep up with me due to lag. Is it my fault they don't have a good enough computer? The answer is "NO".
"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!" The doom and gloomers crack me up. No one knows what will be added to the cash shop except for Cryptic. All you can do is guess that they'll be game changing items there. I can guess that there won't be. Who's right?
"Most of them will be for non-gameplay affecting items like costume additions, action figures, and the like. You can also spend money on things like renaming one of your characters. You can also purchase items that do affect gameplay but Cryptic adds, "Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play."
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I like this Cryptic Points are: * Universally accepted across all Cryptic games.
* Stored with a player's Cryptic user account, and never expire.
but it kinda points towards Star Trek Online having MT's
You had to say it didnt you? yes it does seem to point that way but hopefully enough negative feedback about MT will deter them from implementing it in STO??? Yeah wishful thinking on my part but we can only hope.
I like this Cryptic Points are: * Universally accepted across all Cryptic games.
* Stored with a player's Cryptic user account, and never expire.
but it kinda points towards Star Trek Online having MT's
You had to say it didnt you? yes it does seem to point that way but hopefully enough negative feedback about MT will deter them from implementing it in STO??? Yeah wishful thinking on my part but we can only hope.
As long as there are lubbers around that support this greedy business "model", it will continue to thrive. The best way to kill it is to not support it.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike Loved: Star Wars Galaxies Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
I like this Cryptic Points are: * Universally accepted across all Cryptic games.
* Stored with a player's Cryptic user account, and never expire.
but it kinda points towards Star Trek Online having MT's
You had to say it didnt you? yes it does seem to point that way but hopefully enough negative feedback about MT will deter them from implementing it in STO??? Yeah wishful thinking on my part but we can only hope.
Well, I think STO is going to suck big-time, regardless of RMT, but yeah.
For all we know, Cryptic has reduced (or will reduce) the scope of the RMTs as a result of the uproar about them. Devs don't want to put in massively unpopular 'features', so reaction to such things probably has some influence.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
As long as there are lubbers around that support this greedy business "model", it will continue to thrive. The best way to kill it is to not support it.
And the quicker it is killed, the easier it will be.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I like this Cryptic Points are: * Universally accepted across all Cryptic games.
* Stored with a player's Cryptic user account, and never expire.
but it kinda points towards Star Trek Online having MT's
You had to say it didnt you? yes it does seem to point that way but hopefully enough negative feedback about MT will deter them from implementing it in STO??? Yeah wishful thinking on my part but we can only hope.
As long as there are lubbers around that support this greedy business "model", it will continue to thrive. The best way to kill it is to not support it.
You are correct. I was around when Capt. Kirk took flight for the first time and have loved the ST universe since then but i will avoid STO like the plague if they implement MT.
Comments
Ah yes. The age-old income argument. Honestly, thank you for pointing out the obvious there. I was unaware that everyone's income was different. Imagine my surprise to find that a game company is responsible for this! I mean, clearly everyone should earn the same wage - and it is Cryptic/Atari's fault for offering other things to purchase.
Tell me, are you one of those people who would go to a fast food restaurant (example) and complain that items on the menu have different prices? Or maybe you claim it is unfair that there is more than one item? Would you be offended if they offered to upsize your meal for fifty cents? Perhaps you would get upset that they guy behind you ordered more food?
"But fast food restaurants do not have monthly fees!" I foresee you feverishly typing in an attempt to nit-pick. (No offense, just going off your track record.) Right, then allow the use of another example: Memberships, be it for any service. Would you be one of those people who complains about it being unfair for Mr. Expensive Business-Level is getting more features than you, Mr. Minimum Features-Level?
Now imagine that they ask, "Why is it unfair of us to offer the Business-Level service?" You provide the answer, "He earns more than me!" Would you honestly expect to be taken seriously? Do you think that argument is reasonable?
I'm exhausting rhetoric but I think I've said enough to get my point across.
EDIT: Grammar. EDIT: Yes, riddled with scenarios, replace the "you" where appropriate if it hurts "your" fragile feelings.
cfurlin - "When are you flakey gamers going to realize that game development is a business."
Blocked - MMO_Doubter, Angelof2070
Ah yes. The age-old income argument. Honestly, thank you for pointing out the obvious there. I was unaware that everyone's income was different. Imagine my surprise to find that a game company is responsible for this! I mean, clearly everyone should earn the same wage - and it is Cryptic/Atari's fault for offering other things to purchase.
Tell me, are you one of those people who go to a fast food restaurant, for example, and complain that items on the menu have different prices? Or maybe you claim it is unfair that there is more than one item? Would you be offended if they offered to upsize your meal for fifty cents? Perhaps you would get upset that they guy behind you ordered more food?
"But fast food restaurants do not have monthly fees!" I foresee you feverishly typing in an attempt to nit-pick. (No offense, just going off your track record.) Right, then allow the use of another example: Memberships, be it for any service. Would you be one of those people who complains about it being unfair for Mr. Expensive Business-Level is getting more features than you, Mr Cheap Minimum Features-Level?
Now imagine that they ask, "Why is it unfair of us to offer the Business-Level service?" You provide the answer, "He earns more than me!" Would you honestly expect to be taken seriously? Do you think that argument is reasonable?
I'm exhausting rhetoric but I think I've said enough to get my point across.
Yeah that phrase of theirs stood out to me too. It sounded a little bit like communism. Not in any bad sense of the word, just the "everyone should have the same amount of resources and opportunities of everyone else". Like you said, we're all different. Different lifestyles, different income, different amounts of leisure time. MT's minimal impact deals with the income part of life, and none of the others. People with more free time can potentially have more perks in game than someone with minimal free time but more money.
If people with more money shouldn't be able to get little perks, then people with more free time should be limited too, right? At least that's what the "equality for everyone" approach leads to.
I don't complain when someone has more time than me and using that time yields more XP and loot for them. So I'm definitely not going to complain that someone with more money than me can get extra frivolous things (or even not-so-frivolous) in a game.
Wow Doubter, just wow. You ask me to prove the quote, and I give you the direct words of the man himself. You then say "believe it when you see the game". So you ask me to prove it and when I do you just claim one of the lead designers is lying. That's astounding. How can you expect us to take you seriously? Not only that, but we in fact, see it in the game right now! I showed you the link of the store itself! You were shown actual proof and yet you still deny. Come on man. Have a little common sense here.
You also don't seem to understand the points you're arguing. I said as long as the most popular MMOs are charging the same rate, that becomes the standard. Of course someone will eventually charge more. That's where the modifier "as long as" comes in.
More fun for more money? Is that really what you're arguing is unfair? What about expansion packs. If I can't afford the latest expansion pack to my favourite game, do I get to complain it's unfair that other people can afford to buy it and play the new content while I cannot? Think about that, expansion packs are basically giant lump-sump versions of microtransactions. Except with MTs you get to pick and choose what you spend your money on, instead of having to buy the whole thing. As other people have pointed out (in addition to myself I might add), there will always be some way that someone gets an advantage over you by having more money. If you wanted that advantage enough, you would get more money and buy it. Nobody's forcing anyone to buy anything from the cash store. If you want it bad enough, you'll buy it. Otherwise you can live without.
More character slots doesn't change the game for me. I believe we get 8 with our accounts, and I doubt I'll use more than 3 at the most. Thus I won't need to worry about buying an extra character slot. If other people want to why should I care? Also you might be interested to find that many MMOs without MTs have much fewer character slots than CO. Some games have only 3 or 4, while some have 10 per server. These numbers are decided by the devs on an individual basis. It's their game so they get to choose, not you.
Along that line as well, you mentioned respecs. Some games have no respec option whatsoever. Some games let you completely respec whenever you want. Some games charge ingame currency. Again, this is decided by developers on the way they want their game to play. Champions has decided to go with a limited respec system. This means you can respec the last 10 or so of your choices, but with increasing costs. This allows you to change your mind while you're still getting used to a power, without letting you just completely change your character to the flavour of the month every time you feel like it. As long as you're careful about how long you go before you change your mind, it won't cause a problem. If they offer complete respecs in the store, I don't think it will have gone too far. There's nothing wrong with that. If someone decides they need a complete change, and want it bad enough that they're willing to pay for a full respec, why shouldn't they get it? You shouldn't need that if you simply plan ahead or avoid changing your mind after a long time. So what do I care if someone pays to switch to the flavour of the month? It doesn't have anything to do with my character. But that's not why you oppose it is it? No I know the real reason. You see this person getting a respec that they paid for and you think you should get that too, but for free. This other person wants it bad enough to pay for it, but you think you deserve that option for free.
Unfortunately, that's life. You can envy someone's money or advantages all you want, but until you want it bad enough to get it for yourself, you live without. Complaining about it is like peeing your pants. Sure people can tell you're upset, but you're the only one feeling the trickle down your leg.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
This is why doubter is on my block list. He is pretty much just trolling. Doesn't matter what you say to him he will just argue it.
This is why doubter is on my block list. He is pretty much just trolling. Doesn't matter what you say to him he will just argue it.
Just so everyone is clear, what is shown to be in cryptics MT store and what cryptic has said will be in the MT store are obviously 2 different things so far. That means cryptic will obviously be adding more items. When, what , and why will all be revealed in time. Currently, Cryptics words mean very little to me as in CB what they said and what they did are two different things, even to this day one of the game features on the CO site states clearly "No more boring auto attacks and lengthy recharge times" yet as the game progressed through CB suddenly there were auto attacks, and just before launch... 15 second to 2 minute recharge times. There are other examples to of what cryptic preached isn't always what they perform...
This doesn't reflect my personal opinion on the game as I still like the game, and cryptic, but its not to say that cryptic will not add things later to the MT store because their situation has changed. For example, say, the MT store isn't making any money, well they'll need to figure out a way to make money won't they. Like cryptic has said before when talking about the champions PnP game, they had to modify the system to work for an MMO. Then they had to modify the combat system to work as a more MMO style combat system. Now they just might have to modify the MT system to be more like a MT system if THAT doesn't work. Its a recurring theme here that I see.......
They still did a good job on the game though, just don't take every word of theirs as scripture and believe it blindly.
Got to love unsupported sweeping statements, you know the exact same thing has been said about human reproduction except there's far more evidence that more humans will do only harm in the future.
The facts, imo, is that the base sub price of 15 (insert name of currency here) has been stable for many years (perhaps someone can tell us when it became the standard) while the cost of non-mmo games had steadily risen over the years, as has the cost of developing and running mmo's. So the choice seems to be 4 fold
1) raise subs and become the most expensive mmo on the market
2) implement MT's along side P2P and take the hate
3) use an alternative revenue model other than P2P and hope that works
4) make games that are so bland and simple, based on popular IP's, that will appeal to millions of players, then sit back and pray
Cryptic are a small company with big ideas and those cost money and while investors always want more money back than they invested then the easiest, and best in terms of the companies surviability, source of revenue are the players.
Again look how much you pay for your average non-mmo game and how long you played it ..... please note that most games proudly advertise how many hours of gameplay you can expect (a figure you usually have to half to get a real estimate). Then look at how much you mmo has cost you and how many hours of play you get. Then do the math.
Whilst i personally don't find cryptic's solution to be the best for me, although i won't stop playing CO anytime soon, lets be realistic. There not criminals, they are not the 5th horseman of the apocalypse, there not here to ruin your life in some sordid plot to take over the universe, there just a company trying to do the best they can in tough economic times and with larger competition on all sides. Only time will tell if they got it right or not.
While I understand the reasons for the MT store (added income without a visable increase to the user) I think you just argued my point for me.
You yourself say that Cryptic is looking for a way to make more money without raising the base Sub price. Correct. In order to do that though the MT store "HAS" to sell items the players are willing / want to buy. Since a majority of people can live without "fluff" items (as is proven in most F2P / MT games currently) they will eventually have to sell game impacting items. This is where the "shadey" aspect comes in. They wont tell us what we can expect from the MT over the next 6mos (you can be damm sure they know whats going in for at least the next 6mos)
As you said MMO prices have stayed pretty static recently (I believe the last price increase was from $14.99 to $15.99 and happened around 2 years ago) so in fairness its about time they raised prices again. I'd rather Cryptic set a mo sub of $17.99 (or whatever) upfront to gain thier extra cash. You can be assured that the first MMO to set a higher price will have all the others falling in line within a few months anyway .. and were pretty much due a price raise anyway.
Even you said you dont find Cryptics solution the best for you .. and I agree. I'd rather an upfront cost. Its not the fact they have a MT that concerns me .. its the fact they are very reluctant to tell us what will be available in it. (A few broad statements is not a good indicator)
You are making assumptions that go against what Cryptic has already stated will be in the store. There was a long discussion on I believe tentonhammer about this. It will be appearance items.
Believe it or not a lot of people like the coolness factor and do buy this crap. eq2 has been doing this for quite awhile and they are making a ton of money on the item shop far more then they ever expected. Maybe people just don't care that it costs extra money to have a cool looking pet or some new appearance that is unique. I see some people in eq2 that litterally spend a fortune buying that crap. Personally I could care less. I like my characters appearance.
So this lets them keep the price fixed without increasing the cost and lets all the people with money to burn spend it buying junk.
---
Ethion
It won't all be junk. When they start selling xp items, and damage buffs, and respecs, will you keep playing?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Considering that the head of Cryptic said he hated microtransactions and would never have them in their game 1 year ago I would be sceptic about anthing they say...
But that was before Atari bought them..
lol Atari!
If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd
Foul, 10 yd penalty, stating opinion as fact
You have exactly as much proof they will sell those items as you do that they won't.
I understand your a glass half full kinda guy, but your refusal to even acknowledge the remaining half of the glass is starting to go beyond reasonablness and into requiring medical intervention.
I'm all for forcefully presenting your argument, but when you put your fingers in your ears and hum when anyone else says anything it kinda damages your position.
Foul, 10 yd penalty, stating opinion as fact
You have exactly as much proof they will sell those items as you do that they won't.
I understand your a glass half full kinda guy, but your refusal to even acknowledge the remaining half of the glass is starting to go beyond reasonablness and into requiring medical intervention.
I'm all for forcefully presenting your argument, but when you put your fingers in your ears and hum when anyone else says anything it kinda damages your position.
I agree actually... I doubt they'll sell XP items anyways.... however.... respecs.... I bet they'll be selling those pretty soon.. as well as character slots, they mentioned selling those too.
Actually, I believe pessimists are the "half-empty" type.
Yeah, it's my opinion. Should be clear, frankly. If I had stated that they were in the game now, then that would be a (mistaken) statement of fact. I'm not going to preface each post with "In my opinion." Knowledge of Human nature and familiarity with Cryptic's methods is what I'm basing those predictions on.
I won't be around when those things are put into the shop, so here's a pre-emptive "I told you so."
Have a drink in my name when it happens. "Damn him, Doubter was right!"
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
MMO's are like real life in you get out what you put in, the guy that raids more gets more usually, yet also like in real life luck has a role in things too. A new higher that lucks out and is in the right place at the right time with the right idea might get promoted. Thats just how life is, now I hate to say this but your never going to have an even playing feild mmo. IF a company limited your advancement in levels to so many hours a week no one would ever play that game.
MMO'S are not a giant social chat page with mini games, they are games and people play to get ahead. Sure people will buy some things, others will work for it. It all depends on the person. Even with games without MT's people will go to player auctions or other places and get what they want.
I am a power gamer, I know this sounds cruel but I also work a job and go to school, I sleep like 2-4 hours a day so I can power game. I also work out for an hour a day as well so I have a life, I have a job and obligations and I still devote 40 hours + a week to gaming. It's how I do things. So just cause person X has a problem with doing the work or paying for it doesn't mean I will be nice to them.
In the end it's up to players to decide what they want to do for themselves, but you can't decide that for others. My best friend only can play 2 hours a night if that much, I have a char for leveling with him. I do this cause he is my friend and I want him to have fun when he plays. Yet I still play my own way as well, I don't care that he is a causal player, he sees the world in ways I don't so I enjoy playing when he is on. In the end like I said it's your choice how you do things, so play it your way and forget the rest of the world.
Lifes about living it, games are about playing it, either way it only matters at all if you do it your way!
Foul, 10 yd penalty, stating opinion as fact
You have exactly as much proof they will sell those items as you do that they won't.
I understand your a glass half full kinda guy, but your refusal to even acknowledge the remaining half of the glass is starting to go beyond reasonablness and into requiring medical intervention.
I'm all for forcefully presenting your argument, but when you put your fingers in your ears and hum when anyone else says anything it kinda damages your position.
I agree actually... I doubt they'll sell XP items anyways.... however.... respecs.... I bet they'll be selling those pretty soon.. as well as character slots, they mentioned selling those too.
Exactly, I doubt they'll sell XP items, myself, pretty much everything else mentioned is fine and I half expect it.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Ah yes. The age-old income argument. Honestly, thank you for pointing out the obvious there. I was unaware that everyone's income was different. Imagine my surprise to find that a game company is responsible for this! I mean, clearly everyone should earn the same wage - and it is Cryptic/Atari's fault for offering other things to purchase.
Tell me, are you one of those people who would go to a fast food restaurant (example) and complain that items on the menu have different prices? Or maybe you claim it is unfair that there is more than one item? Would you be offended if they offered to upsize your meal for fifty cents? Perhaps you would get upset that they guy behind you ordered more food?
"But fast food restaurants do not have monthly fees!" I foresee you feverishly typing in an attempt to nit-pick. (No offense, just going off your track record.) Right, then allow the use of another example: Memberships, be it for any service. Would you be one of those people who complains about it being unfair for Mr. Expensive Business-Level is getting more features than you, Mr. Minimum Features-Level?
Now imagine that they ask, "Why is it unfair of us to offer the Business-Level service?" You provide the answer, "He earns more than me!" Would you honestly expect to be taken seriously? Do you think that argument is reasonable?
I'm exhausting rhetoric but I think I've said enough to get my point across.
EDIT: Grammar. EDIT: Yes, riddled with scenarios, replace the "you" where appropriate if it hurts "your" fragile feelings.
I hate it when people try to compare things that can't be compared.
MMOs are not like fast food restaurants and are not like memberships to other services. A MMO is a game and by nature is competitive. How can you expect to be competitive if everyone is not on a level playing field? It's not that people don't have the money to spend on the game, it's that they don't want to spend more money on it.
Mr. Bagguns
All I could think of when reading this is:
"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"
The doom and gloomers crack me up. No one knows what will be added to the cash shop except for Cryptic. All you can do is guess that they'll be game changing items there. I can guess that there won't be. Who's right?
I'm playing the game and enjoying it for now. I only pay 10 bucks a month, which is great and a lot less than I pay for other P2P games that I'm subscribed to. I'm OK with the RMT for now, but NO ONE but Cryptic, knows what is going to go in there. It's waiting game to see where the game goes, and I will enjoy the game til they take it somewhere I don't think it should go. I left CoH after 4 years when they ruined the game with AE.
Ah yes. The age-old income argument. Honestly, thank you for pointing out the obvious there. I was unaware that everyone's income was different. Imagine my surprise to find that a game company is responsible for this! I mean, clearly everyone should earn the same wage - and it is Cryptic/Atari's fault for offering other things to purchase.
Tell me, are you one of those people who would go to a fast food restaurant (example) and complain that items on the menu have different prices? Or maybe you claim it is unfair that there is more than one item? Would you be offended if they offered to upsize your meal for fifty cents? Perhaps you would get upset that they guy behind you ordered more food?
"But fast food restaurants do not have monthly fees!" I foresee you feverishly typing in an attempt to nit-pick. (No offense, just going off your track record.) Right, then allow the use of another example: Memberships, be it for any service. Would you be one of those people who complains about it being unfair for Mr. Expensive Business-Level is getting more features than you, Mr. Minimum Features-Level?
Now imagine that they ask, "Why is it unfair of us to offer the Business-Level service?" You provide the answer, "He earns more than me!" Would you honestly expect to be taken seriously? Do you think that argument is reasonable?
I'm exhausting rhetoric but I think I've said enough to get my point across.
EDIT: Grammar. EDIT: Yes, riddled with scenarios, replace the "you" where appropriate if it hurts "your" fragile feelings.
I hate it when people try to compare things that can't be compared.
MMOs are not like fast food restaurants and are not like memberships to other services. A MMO is a game and by nature is competitive. How can you expect to be competitive if everyone is not on a level playing field? It's not that people don't have the money to spend on the game, it's that they don't want to spend more money on it.
So it is a level playing field. Because its the same price for everyone. Its the consumers fault that he doesn't want to spend the money. It would be the same if their computers weren't up to par and they can't keep up with me due to lag. Is it my fault they don't have a good enough computer? The answer is "NO".
I'm not guessing:
http://news.bigdownload.com/2009/07/16/champions-online-to-support-micro-transactions-at-launch/
"Most of them will be for non-gameplay affecting items like costume additions, action figures, and the like. You can also spend money on things like renaming one of your characters. You can also purchase items that do affect gameplay but Cryptic adds, "Any micro-transaction that has a game effect can also be earned in the game through play."
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You had to say it didnt you?
yes it does seem to point that way but hopefully enough negative feedback about MT will deter them from implementing it in STO??? Yeah wishful thinking on my part but we can only hope.
You had to say it didnt you?
yes it does seem to point that way but hopefully enough negative feedback about MT will deter them from implementing it in STO??? Yeah wishful thinking on my part but we can only hope.
As long as there are lubbers around that support this greedy business "model", it will continue to thrive. The best way to kill it is to not support it.
Tried: LotR, CoH, AoC, WAR, Jumpgate Classic
Played: SWG, Guild Wars, WoW
Playing: Eve Online, Counter-strike
Loved: Star Wars Galaxies
Waiting for: Earthrise, Guild Wars 2, anything sandbox.
You had to say it didnt you?
yes it does seem to point that way but hopefully enough negative feedback about MT will deter them from implementing it in STO??? Yeah wishful thinking on my part but we can only hope.
Well, I think STO is going to suck big-time, regardless of RMT, but yeah.
For all we know, Cryptic has reduced (or will reduce) the scope of the RMTs as a result of the uproar about them. Devs don't want to put in massively unpopular 'features', so reaction to such things probably has some influence.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
And the quicker it is killed, the easier it will be.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
You had to say it didnt you?
yes it does seem to point that way but hopefully enough negative feedback about MT will deter them from implementing it in STO??? Yeah wishful thinking on my part but we can only hope.
As long as there are lubbers around that support this greedy business "model", it will continue to thrive. The best way to kill it is to not support it.
You are correct. I was around when Capt. Kirk took flight for the first time and have loved the ST universe since then but i will avoid STO like the plague if they implement MT.
Pretty sure they already confirmed STO will have a similar system.
yay not even a month in and its $8 more just to have everything in the game!
thats a $23 sub fee first month, sweet.