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Mature MMO or Family Friendly Content?
Fortenc
Member Posts: 427
Imagine that an exhaustively epic MMO was being developed which would certainly be the next big hit. Completely theoretical, genre could be anything.
My question to the community is: would you prefer a game created for mature audiences, likely with an M rating, or a game that is family-friendly and suitable for everyone 10 and up (as is the stated norm for E MMOs)?
Things that may be found in a mature MMO that would not be found in a family-friendly MMO:
Extensive, realistic blood and gore including staining of armor and UI with blood
Drug and alcohol reference and use
An extensive criminal system
No swear filter or swear filter turned off by default
Nudity and sexual themes as well as seduction and adult topics
Dark themes and politics
Adult professions
These are only some possibilities.. I'm not saying that it would be a game centered around sexual themes, far from it, just to make that clear.
Or would you prefer a game which you could play with your children without worry?
Each game would be of the same quality, one would just be rated M while the other would be rated E. Both hypothetical good games.
Thanks for your input in advance!
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Comments
Im one of the few that voted for a family friendly MMO due to the fact that i think an M rated MMO would be a magnet for the immature crowd . An M rated game would be refreshing and perhaps my fears wouldnt come true but i doubt it.
Well, being rated M it would be explicitly stated what would be included on the box and only negligent parents would allow their children to use their credits cards to pay for an adult-oriented game.. that being said there would still be the mature players and the few young players who would act immature, surely.. but that exists in family games, too, heheh.
Every low-level Dark Elf in WAR runs around naked...
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Just less fuzzy wuzzy cartoon anime MMOs with stupid size weapons flashy effects would be nice..
What if large weaponry was explained in lore and quite feasible *in the world? Adds more diversity, no?
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Another example of why we need different MMO’s for different players. One size does not fit all.
Both are fine with me really, but of course family friendly have a bigger target range of players.
I am mature enough to play both type of games whether it is realistic or more anime-ish or even cartoon-ish, I don't really care, it just has to be entertaining and complex enough.
People define maturity the wrong way anyways, they often think because they are adults, somethings meant for kids such as cartoon is beneath them. On the other hand, then why have the adults been taking mmorpg game away from the kids and keep pushing it in a direction that seek to exclude younger players?
We adults are hypocrites, but it takes real maturity to admit it.
Well, Age of Conan has come the closest to being an 'adult' MMORPG simply due to the whole breasts thing. It didn't turn out to be a fun game (totally IMO), but I applaud Funcom for at least breaking the barrier there.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
I went mature and here's why from a recent experience.
Playing LOTRO fairly happily and someone tells me about this Vanguard game - they want to play it together on the weekend etc.
We play it and I haven't been back to LOTRO in about 3 weeks so I have a short time of experience there now.
First night in game I ask a question - someone gets rude - I try to be nice because that's how I had to be in LOTRO with buddies getting banned for cursing in channels. I was shocked that the person was a pud to someone that was new especially if they wanted more population but then I asked the others.... apparently there is no monitoring for chat in this game. Say what you want when you want and duke it out as needed. During the fiasco ppl were sending me tells saying don't mind them - pompous ass etc been that way all day.
After that incident I went to the "mainland" thinking I was going to get torn up for just asking newbie questions. Didn't freakin happen. Ppl were nice to me and explained things in tells that I was having trouble with. These ppl have free reign to be all sorts of fools but aren't doing it. Thinking that we will all devolve w/out babysitting is a bit silly since we all have personal morals and ethics.
Having seen no real moderation on chat specifically - gotta say I like it better when its... dangerous. The chance for abuse is there sure but so can I abuse right back and that's more like real life isn't it.
Maybe its also having no children that sways my thoughts because I have no one to shield in the house from that dirty old society but I dig the danger yup yup. Just took a bit to get used to.
I slightly prefer Mature, but find myself playing family friendly games for longer most of the time.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I think the term "mature" as you're using it is fairly incorrect.
The content you describe for a "mature" game will likely only attract the immature and juvenile.
Mature inidivudals are more likely going to be attracted to content that is far tamer than what you described. As such, I would say "family friendly" content is mature. I think the content you're describing as mature can be better referred to as "pubescent".
Not if done well within the world and not just tacked on but conversely so long as the game is not focused solely around adult themes, as well. What is so pubescent about realistic blood when you're fighting? I'm not talking about creatures exploding with gore. Criminals profit through drugs that enhance abilities but are gathered by illegal means shouldn't ring too strong to the juvenile and sexuality is a part of human existence.
If that doesn't help clear up the extent of how the mature content would be handled in this world then I suppose we just differ in opinions, which is fine. The game doesn't center on it, just uses it to enhance realism and make the world feel more open and real.
But yes, having tacked-on sexuality and gore without a real good game around it would attract the immature and juvenile. It would take a good game which incorporates real things found in adult life to pass off as mature for a good reason.
EDIT: By the way, in my head I'm using a fantasy-medieval world as a base for description, so don't mind me.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Not if done well within the world and not just tacked on but conversely so long as the game is not focused solely around adult themes, as well. What is so pubescent about realistic blood when you're fighting? I'm not talking about creatures exploding with gore. Criminals profit through drugs that enhance abilities but are gathered by illegal means and sexuality is a part of human existence.
If that doesn't help clear up the extent of how much the mature content matters then I suppose we just differ in opinions, which is fine.
But yes, having tacked-on sexuality and gore without a real good game around it would attract the immature and juvenile. It would take a good game which incorporates real things found in adult life to pass off as mature for a good reason.
EDIT: By the way, in my head I'm using a fantasy-medieval world as a base for description, so don't mind me.
Yes I do agree. Many games based on blood, gore, and sex focus on those way too much. Instead of making a fun game that happen to have blood, gore, and sex, they usually end up making blood, gore, sex a sell point. Even worse sometimes game company made it the main point of the game and expect players to have fun BECAUSE it has blood, gore, and sex. (By sex I mean sexual theme and not graphic sex)
Maybe because I am an old-school type of gamers, I rather focus on gameplay before anything else, but having a cute girl in skimpy outfit NCP in mmo is not bad. The problem is if the whole game is based on cute girl in skimpy/sexy outfits, then there is another game genre for it. This also work the same way with blood and gore, except blood and gore itself does not make a genre in gaming, it is a feature.
In terms of maturity that is another issue that I already replied before on this thread, but just thought I share what I have noticed in terms of MMO advertisements.
Just keep in mind that one of the most important parts about an MMORPG is it's community. You're more likely to establish a successful community if there is a target audience that is of like mind, by and large.
Any sex and gore-based game is going to attract a good number of immature folks who want nothing more than to experience that content. That will create a certain type of community and in-game culture right off the bat. That particular community is going to keep away a great deal of people.
It's a niche market. There's probably a place for it, but I couldn't tell you a thing about that niche.
The point is not to have a sex and gore-based game. Players may give an interested look just for those features, but soon enough they'd go back to games, anime, blah specifically about gore and sex rather than keep playing an MMO for it.
Dragon Age: Origins is dipping down deep into the well of mature games, for one example. Going a few steps past it would be the aim of a mature game without making Sex Online: The Bloodbeast of The 'Nether' Realm.
I'm going to drop disagreeing with you now though because we simply have different beliefs about the subject, heheh.
EDIT: I think a dark, brooding community of cutthroats, criminals, law-makers and heroes would be epic myself.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Personally, I don't come to the games in order to have an experience with all the bad things in real life. And IMO neither would most people. Would you like your character to go to jail for five years? Would you like the easy death that comes with realistic blood?
I agree that such a game is more "juvenile" than "mature". Not that it's impossible to do well, as GTA shows, but IMO it's just a way to enact immature fantasies.
Well, it's a game rather than a simulator, still. Along with blood would have to be quick, reactive combat where blocks and dodges occur quite often and a few solid hits kill (speaking about players) or some other such system.. or you could just not spurt 30 liters of blood off since, in a fantasy world, at least, it would be blows beneath armor or blows deflected by magic somewhat.. etc. And jail would be impossible, true enough, justice would be putting bounties on and killing the unjust or you could side with the criminals to kill the law-bringers for badges and bragging right.. just for examples from there.
Now, is that offering more and differing game mechanics or just immaturity?
As I said, I'm trying to assume that this is a game done well and not 'just to be mature'. A game done just to be mature would be awful.
As always my opinions, though I like to be active in my own thread.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Since when swearing is mature.
I'm indifferent as long as game is fun it doesn't matter whether it's considered mature or not.
Since when swearing is mature.
I'm indifferent as long as game is fun it doesn't matter whether it's considered mature or not.
100 % I agree on you ^^
Luminary: Rise of the GoonZu player
The best M rated games are M rated as a by product. Not as a target.
The poll just doesn't work for that reason.
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
Exactly. The problem with anything rated "Mature" is that 99% of the things in these games is extremely immature. Mature people don't need all the blood and gore and sex and drugs, etc. The only people those appeal to are the immature teenagers and people who act like them for whom the game is really intended.
I'd like to see an actual mature game, which would feature absolutely none of those things. Instead, we ought to be calling it an "Immature" game.
Until then, I had to vote for a family-friendly game.
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The tough, burly barbarians force their way through the keep, large, battered flounders in hand. Many a men are sploinked by the barbarians' flounders as they kindly ask for silverware and other keepsakes, rifling through the rooms after asking permission.
Finally a challenger appears, a knight with an enormous spatula mowing through the barbarians by gently spanking them and herding them off into side corridors like cattle.
"Off ye boinking knaves, lest I bercludgeon you with my spatula!"
"Plork you, you possibly unintelligent defender of the keep! Have at you!"
The barbarian king and the challenger battle and finally the challenger is defeated. He dies, but doesn't bleed, obviously.
"Now, time to plunder the women of the castle, boys!"
The barbarian kings tells the remainder of his men, voice shaking mightily with pride.
"Why would we do that?"
One barbarian asks curiously.
"Because women tend to be better at sewing and we need to learn how to sew in order to increase our trade skills, of course!"
EDIT: I love assumptions as much as anyone but assuming that an M-rated game centers specifically around the darker and more adult themes that it just happens to indulge in is certainly not going too far at all and showing one's spite for games which have, in the past, offered adult themes specifically to draw in immature crowds and used those adult themes as central plot devices about which all matter gravitates. Not at all. (I'm the flamer in my own thread, so proud. Maybe I should edit my main post to more specifically repeat how the game wouldn't be 90% sex, drugs and gore-on-gore action but instead use adult themes as tertiary elements that create immersion and allow freedom rather than drive gameplay. Broken record end.)
All still my opinions, I guess I should stop whoring my own thread to make a point.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
We have pretty much all of these out there. And you can see the actual real world player preferences just by looking at the various games outcomes.
WoW, LotRO, EQ2 and CoH/V are all reasonable current examples of what you would view as "family friendly" MMO's. They limit the swearing and such. While there is some light references to alchohol they avoid many of the harder darker things, and they limit the overall gore and brutality. EQ and DAoC are great classic examples of the same.
AOC, DArkfall, Shadowbane (a little aged granted) and to some extent WAR are examples of more "mature" targeted games. With AOC and Darkfall specifically being developed for that target audience.
How do the numbers shake out? I know what the folks who read and post here will say. "We want mature hardcore duuuude!!!" But really, the general purchasing public really just wants a good game preferrably without the cursing and boobies. Now granted the cursing and blood and boobies are not the end all be all reason to not choose a game. But as others have pointed out, they do seem to attract a certain type of playerbase that is at best niche, and this same specialized (or if you prefer "special") playerbase does tend to put off or drive away the more mainstream one. I know at least a half dozen guildies that were enthusiastic for Conan, preordered it, logged in day one, had their first few encounters with Conans "mature" themed playerbase, logged off, cancelled the subscription and tossed the game box in the trash.
The weird thing about this is it is the more PG "family friendly" games that actually attract the real mature players. The older gamers. Those who started with Atari (the console, not the cheesy ripoff artist publisher currently being sued by Turbine). In may cases they are playing these games with their kids and even grandkids.
Fortenc, the last part of your post was a bit too sarcastically convoluted for me to follow, so I'll stick to the first one. Okay, suppose that you have a barbarian horde coming in, killing the children and raping the women, and everything is a bloody mess. How would you suggest incorporating this into the game in a meaningful way, so that it provides added value to players? And I mean players who don't enjoy the idea of rape and infanticide, because I don't want to think about the players who do.
I never said anything about killing children or raping women. The women teach the barbarians valuable trade-skills.
There's a line that you do not cross because people as a whole do not want to cross it. Going too far into drugs, rape, despicable murder.. unless you're creating Serial Killer Online there always has to be a line. EVE has drugs; is that highlighted as the #1 feature of the game? No.
Age of Conan had breasts as a selling point. Not the way I would want an adult game to go, either.. that would just attract the immature crowds. Mass Effect has sex scenes but I (completely personally) don't think players played the game just to see those scenes. And for an MMO it wouldn't even be going that far.
Baldur's Gate and Dragon Age: Origins are two more examples of close-to-but-not-MMORPGs that are going down or have gone down the darker route and did so or are doing so successfully. Nobody seems to fault them for being mature, at least not that I know of.
As for violence, there isn't really a game that I can think of that has visceral, bloody combat when it comes to an MMO. But I think actually including blood on weaponry and armor at least would be interesting. You could tell who had just come back from a big battle before they cleaned their weapons and armor. In PvP you could tell who was the man-slayer.. the bloodiest man on the field.
I'd delete my last post because it was a sarcastic load of bull but I find it funny and the point remains. Those who has posted have, in my opinion, not been thinking of a mature game as a damn good game that just happens to have some adult tertiary mechanics put in. Not primary gameplay, not secondary mechanics; something in the background that drives story and allows for freedom of speech when it comes to how races and peoples interact with each other and violence.
I really want this poll to take that into serious account, but I guess some people still have bad pre-conceptions when they think of adult games and without giving things away I can't really go further into detail about how these things would be achieved.
EDIT: As for how to use blood and violence smartly, I can offer only a few examples without ruining an NDA:
Blood - A keep is under siege in a storyline. Players can tell where battles were fought and where the winning combatants went due to blood trails. The fact that their keep is being decimated hits home when the after-effects are visible, driving the players to want bloody vengeance.
Death and Bad Things - You used rape for an example, I'll use kidnapping with the plan to do so or kill. It drives the player to want to save the victim, especially if there is a past connection between the NPC and the player. This is used more for quest-player interaction through storyline but cannot be done in a less mature game, at least not with the desired emotional impact.
Objectivity is delivered with a lack of personality made for the mainstream but never used for the mainstream.
Mature rated and geared towards a mature audience are two different things. Take EVE Online for example, it's a game geared towards an adult audience because it requires actual thinking and planning. It revolves around the community, politics and corporate ruthlessness and competition and a kick ass market. Something that an adult with an average IQ can understand and get into.
Now you take Age of Conan, a game that's rated Mature, and you can see that it's actually geared at teenagers and young adults, who will get enticed with "omfg I just chopped that dude's head off... OMG LOOK AT THE BOOBIES!"
In my opinion, a game geared towards adults will have a different stimulus than an M rated game. There could be blood, gore, sexual themes and criminal activity but the game has to be built from the ground up with an adult audience in mind with the theme, puzzles, strategy, planning, politics, etc. Just having blood, boobies and bad words is not going to cut it.