Now I know what you typed was a load of bull since you contradict yourself, gold is only advertised in popular games because thats where the demand is... they won't advertise on a dead server.
Besides there are still two servers that have a constant population at peak times so RVR and grouping is usually no problem.
In Europe anyway
(Karak-Azgal and Karak-Norn to anyone interested)
When the game was frist released there was alot of gold advertising especially mail spam as the game started to sink and when the gold sellers started to release that gold had no value they left with everyone else.
Hopefully, it won't happen to Aion, but we'll see if Aion and Warhammer have the same fate, happens to most upcoming MMOs such as Age of Conan and WAR.
No the Honeymoon is already over for Aion. People are finally seeing it for the Korean Grinder that it is. It will be a neiche game just like Linage II in the states.
No Lineage 2 had a much large scope, open world...unlike AION. Lineage 2 is actually a fairly good MMO if you give it a chance these days now that the grind is light. Aion doesn't have any grind and it doesn't have a whole lot of challenge either. It is totally dependent on players chasing each other around in the abyss to hang onto it's subs. Lord forbid you want to make an alt or 2. You thought AoC had no replayability...wait.
Dunno what many folks are expecting but yes, Warhammer is pretty linear but they haven't seen anything until they get into AION. I don't know of a game that has a more narrow, pre-chewed track of gameplay.
Aion described short: wings, grind, goldsellers paradise. I think many who hit level 20-30 range realize the horrifying grind and quit.
No offence, but i'ts safe to say you haven't even played Aion let alone past level 20, if you did you would know that past level 20 a lot of new areas open and you get a huge amount of quests, there is no grind in Aion it's why Ncsoft has introduced over 1500 new quests in the latest patch.
At level 20 every class starts blooming, so take your fail somewhere else instead of bashing aion, especially something you have absolutely no idea about.
Goldsellers paradise ? again a proof that you are not playing the beta, there is not one single goldsellers advertism going on ..because there arent any.
I agree with you, except the Red part.
There was plenty of goldspam and powerlevel services spam going on already during Open Beta.
No the Honeymoon is already over for Aion. People are finally seeing it for the Korean Grinder that it is. It will be a neiche game just like Linage II in the states.
No Lineage 2 had a much large scope, open world...unlike AION. Lineage 2 is actually a fairly good MMO if you give it a chance these days now that the grind is light. Aion doesn't have any grind and it doesn't have a whole lot of challenge either. It is totally dependent on players chasing each other around in the abyss to hang onto it's subs. Lord forbid you want to make an alt or 2. You thought AoC had no replayability...wait.
Dunno what many folks are expecting but yes, Warhammer is pretty linear but they haven't seen anything until they get into AION. I don't know of a game that has a more narrow, pre-chewed track of gameplay.
Warhammer is easily a better game then AION IMHO.
The problem is, WAR is failing worldwide, and its failing pretty hard, while Aion is not failing in the East, and we will see about the west. In either case, apparently WAR is not a better game for what its supposed to achieve, mainly making money and keeping people entertained.
See, thats really the tragedy about WAR and AoC: Both tried a lot of new ideas, both are lauded for many concepts, but nobody plays them anymore. I am one of these people myself, I loved scenarios for levelling, I liked t1 and t2 RvR, even some parts of T3, I liked the classes etc., but I quit and will never come back.
Why? Because although we hail and laud and cheer for so many ideas like open parties, public quests, scenario levelling, pvp from level 1 etc., ultimately it always comes down to a solid mass of working content, a decent balance, and long-term goals. These keep MMORPGs alive.
WAR and AoC just proved that even if you have the best gravy in the world, if your meat has been trimmed down even the slightest to pay for that gravy, you ll end up bleeding subs.
I would have loved for both of these games to succeed, and prove that WoW or Aion are indeed not the right way to go, but reality clearly indicates that WoW and Aion are indeed still what people expect from MMOs that are to last.
More than anything, poor performance killed Warhammer. After that it was blance - both population and class balance. After those it was end game design.
Incompetence killed Warhammer, not being too different or not different enough.
From what I have heard, Aion runs very well. That, along with being different enough (with RvR aspects) from WoW, will make it a decent performer in the West.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The problem is, WAR is failing worldwide, and its failing pretty hard, while Aion is not failing in the East, and we will see about the west. In either case, apparently WAR is not a better game for what its supposed to achieve, mainly making money and keeping people entertained. See, thats really the tragedy about WAR and AoC: Both tried a lot of new ideas, both are lauded for many concepts, but nobody plays them anymore. I am one of these people myself, I loved scenarios for levelling, I liked t1 and t2 RvR, even some parts of T3, I liked the classes etc., but I quit and will never come back. Why? Because although we hail and laud and cheer for so many ideas like open parties, public quests, scenario levelling, pvp from level 1 etc., ultimately it always comes down to a solid mass of working content, a decent balance, and long-term goals. These keep MMORPGs alive. WAR and AoC just proved that even if you have the best gravy in the world, if your meat has been trimmed down even the slightest to pay for that gravy, you ll end up bleeding subs. I would have loved for both of these games to succeed, and prove that WoW or Aion are indeed not the right way to go, but reality clearly indicates that WoW and Aion are indeed still what people expect from MMOs that are to last.
I agree that WAR is failing badly...
Your points however are not adequate to make a solid argument against WARs content / meat.
Aion will probably have a lot of success for 2 reasons
It's technically sound, moreso then WAR at launch
It's simplistic - there is no evidence of "long term goals" in AION other then to launch in the west. It does ZERO to address balance in the population sense. It keeps classes the same on both side (simplistic) I don't know what you mean by a "solid mass of working content...AION does not have PQ's, it does not have PvP from lvl 1 up, it does not have scenerios, it does not have open parties.
I completely fail to see how AION measures up to WAR but I am an idiot. I played AION to level 20 in beta (which was the cap at the time) All AION has to offer is a whole lot of "rat killing" and PvP in the abyss that is periodically interupted by an NPC faction to keep one side from dominating the server.
So...if you like it simple, go with AION. It totally unchallenges you on just about every level and that seems to be what the current MMO market is after these days...pretty graphics and no challenge, kill some rats and do a generic endgame....welcome to AION.
The problem is, WAR is failing worldwide, and its failing pretty hard, while Aion is not failing in the East, and we will see about the west. In either case, apparently WAR is not a better game for what its supposed to achieve, mainly making money and keeping people entertained. See, thats really the tragedy about WAR and AoC: Both tried a lot of new ideas, both are lauded for many concepts, but nobody plays them anymore. I am one of these people myself, I loved scenarios for levelling, I liked t1 and t2 RvR, even some parts of T3, I liked the classes etc., but I quit and will never come back. Why? Because although we hail and laud and cheer for so many ideas like open parties, public quests, scenario levelling, pvp from level 1 etc., ultimately it always comes down to a solid mass of working content, a decent balance, and long-term goals. These keep MMORPGs alive. WAR and AoC just proved that even if you have the best gravy in the world, if your meat has been trimmed down even the slightest to pay for that gravy, you ll end up bleeding subs. I would have loved for both of these games to succeed, and prove that WoW or Aion are indeed not the right way to go, but reality clearly indicates that WoW and Aion are indeed still what people expect from MMOs that are to last.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
Now I know what you typed was a load of bull since you contradict yourself, gold is only advertised in popular games because thats where the demand is... they won't advertise on a dead server.
Besides there are still two servers that have a constant population at peak times so RVR and grouping is usually no problem.
In Europe anyway
(Karak-Azgal and Karak-Norn to anyone interested)
I just like everybody else tried this horrible game when it was first released and it was very popular. Dont make assumptions based on what you think because we all know how that always turns out.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
I respect your opinion. But like I said, I don't want to discuss these things in the honey moon period. I wish you all the gaming fun.
But the downfall of single subscription based games has nothing to do with polish or "broken promisses" or any other management.
We will discuss this at a proper time. I see Aoin as a gift to confirm the theory I already saw 3 years ago.
An in depth discussion will follow later, when the honeymoon is over.
Im replying to the thread by Khaunshar. You maybe right of course that Aion may tank in the west when the initial hype is over and hover around 100k. We will see.
The problem is, WAR is failing worldwide, and its failing pretty hard, while Aion is not failing in the East, and we will see about the west. In either case, apparently WAR is not a better game for what its supposed to achieve, mainly making money and keeping people entertained. See, thats really the tragedy about WAR and AoC: Both tried a lot of new ideas, both are lauded for many concepts, but nobody plays them anymore. I am one of these people myself, I loved scenarios for levelling, I liked t1 and t2 RvR, even some parts of T3, I liked the classes etc., but I quit and will never come back. Why? Because although we hail and laud and cheer for so many ideas like open parties, public quests, scenario levelling, pvp from level 1 etc., ultimately it always comes down to a solid mass of working content, a decent balance, and long-term goals. These keep MMORPGs alive. WAR and AoC just proved that even if you have the best gravy in the world, if your meat has been trimmed down even the slightest to pay for that gravy, you ll end up bleeding subs. I would have loved for both of these games to succeed, and prove that WoW or Aion are indeed not the right way to go, but reality clearly indicates that WoW and Aion are indeed still what people expect from MMOs that are to last.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
why war fail ,same reason most new mmo fail
they release a game same way as wow and expect it to do good by itself lol
¸player got wow if they wanted static they would play wow
player wants to get involved in game,like they dont want to grind just to grind gees
espacially in the p2p ,its sad but game now has to be a bit like lotery
yes,yes i know some will be mad! people pay to play game so they want stuff in return
not the free skin etc,they want live event in game ,athene showeed us that 4000 player in wow waited for that to happen ,couldnt
wow servercouldnty handle 4000 player in same area,
in 2 month if athene had made it ,he would probably have ended with 100k player for a live event in the future
yep live is that big
people dont want to play a static mmo anymore there are ton of game that you can mmo without being seen etc
hell player could play on console instead ,they go to mmo because they expect and demand from companys like ncsoft and all the other
what will you organise nowe that game is released ,if the game company answer well the game is there YOU can organise something .that company lost the long term fight right there
and for some that believe wow is dying.lol
they re workingon cataclysm !they released lot of info and the game is still far
we can all say this will be wow 2 .and if no gaming company do like gw did
wow will sure be able to do it now with a complete overooul of there game
¸before they just couldnt do what gw did,techno wasnt there when wow lunched
but today techno is there.
game maker are funy they release game they say to gamer ok now game is released now play !
and game maker go take a beer and think the game will be cool all by itself
See, no matter how we slice it, there are plenty of features in WAR and also AoC that work, and have worked decently to perfectly since launch. Many of these features (scenario levelling, low tier PvP, many classes, PvP from Level 1, public quests, open parties to name the most prevalent of WAR) are now used to claim the game is superior to its competitor(s), too. And they are supposedly the big selling points.
So, why does the game not work out even though these things have always been there, and have always worked?
Possibility A) Even though people CLAIM these things are great, the next step, fresh, and the reason to play WAR, they are not enough to outweigh the lack of the more traditional stuff from WoW and Aion. They are nice-to-have, but in the end, not as good as if you left them out, but made a traditional MMO with solid dungeons etc. instead.
Possbility Technical quality and problems outweigh these factors by far. No matter how good your game, if it has bugs at launch, you are done for, because that weighs heavier than any amount of great design. Which again points out that you dont get players by making good new features, but by retreading the old ground and polishing it to a sheen.
Possibility C) People actually dont like these innovative fresh features really. They dont care, and the whole world of message boards brimming with demands for innovation and fresh ideas is junk.
I think its pretty much A, with a bit of B mixed in. People really ARE happy playing the same old, same old, if its done well. At least, they prefer it to fresh, new games with some kinks, or fresh games that do not also deliver the same old, same old.
Innovation has always been risky, and in MMOs the risk has a bigger pricetag. There is a reason for that. Most innovative games fail, because the market does usually not want that much innovation at all. Just veterans like you and me who have played and seen most of it put that much value on something being "fresh", and we are pretty fickle anyway.
Now I know what you typed was a load of bull since you contradict yourself, gold is only advertised in popular games because thats where the demand is... they won't advertise on a dead server.
Besides there are still two servers that have a constant population at peak times so RVR and grouping is usually no problem.
In Europe anyway
(Karak-Azgal and Karak-Norn to anyone interested)
I just like everybody else tried this horrible game when it was first released and it was very popular. Dont make assumptions based on what you think because we all know how that always turns out.
I'm not assuming anything, I am just pointing out the fallacies in your argument and besides don't go around saying the game is horrible as fact, I know plenty of people who dislike WAR but I also know plenty of people who enjoy it immensely so stop being a bloody hypocrite.
The problem is, WAR is failing worldwide, and its failing pretty hard, while Aion is not failing in the East, and we will see about the west. In either case, apparently WAR is not a better game for what its supposed to achieve, mainly making money and keeping people entertained. See, thats really the tragedy about WAR and AoC: Both tried a lot of new ideas, both are lauded for many concepts, but nobody plays them anymore. I am one of these people myself, I loved scenarios for levelling, I liked t1 and t2 RvR, even some parts of T3, I liked the classes etc., but I quit and will never come back. Why? Because although we hail and laud and cheer for so many ideas like open parties, public quests, scenario levelling, pvp from level 1 etc., ultimately it always comes down to a solid mass of working content, a decent balance, and long-term goals. These keep MMORPGs alive. WAR and AoC just proved that even if you have the best gravy in the world, if your meat has been trimmed down even the slightest to pay for that gravy, you ll end up bleeding subs. I would have loved for both of these games to succeed, and prove that WoW or Aion are indeed not the right way to go, but reality clearly indicates that WoW and Aion are indeed still what people expect from MMOs that are to last.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
Actually what players want and say they want are two different things, while i do agree that the concept in WAR is good , its execution is eh ehmmm... "crap" , the games still are focused on leveling and what skills you get when you hit lvl X, being 40 ( for example ) the pinnacle of your achievements ingame followed by "Epic kits" for whose you need to grind missions over and over and over and over again, and then its the braggin rights that keep you in the game until the player is bored and so on ....
Aion will not bring anything different, Warhammer in itself has the potencial of creating something fresh and unbound by the level system that every single game ( except EVE-O ) has.
Aion will be the new fluff for people that are either bored of WOW or displeasured with WAR, not the end of WAR or WOW , since it brings nothing new ( you can fly ... yay ) , in the end its a game with the same structure as the others, only the story changes.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
I respect your opinion. But like I said, I don't want to discuss these things in the honey moon period. I wish you all the gaming fun.
But the downfall of single subscription based games has nothing to do with polish or "broken promisses" or any other management.
We will discuss this at a proper time. I see Aoin as a gift to confirm the theory I already saw 3 years ago.
An in depth discussion will follow later, when the honeymoon is over.
The great Zorndorf speaks and so it must be !!!
~~"Zorndorf marches back to the land of wow with his head held high for all to see"~~
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Fortunately, I never gave a damn about the IP. The way they blew the whole PvP/RvR concept greatly disappoints me, though. As for Aion? Meh. You can't PvP right from the start, and you can't level up from PvP, so to hell with it. It's going to be a sub-WoW PvE + sub Warhammer PvP game. Not to mention Game Guard.
I'm passing.
There's better things to do besides level up from killing players VIA PVP.
No the Honeymoon is already over for Aion. People are finally seeing it for the Korean Grinder that it is. It will be a neiche game just like Linage II in the states.
No Lineage 2 had a much large scope, open world...unlike AION. Lineage 2 is actually a fairly good MMO if you give it a chance these days now that the grind is light. Aion doesn't have any grind and it doesn't have a whole lot of challenge either. It is totally dependent on players chasing each other around in the abyss to hang onto it's subs. Lord forbid you want to make an alt or 2. You thought AoC had no replayability...wait.
Dunno what many folks are expecting but yes, Warhammer is pretty linear but they haven't seen anything until they get into AION. I don't know of a game that has a more narrow, pre-chewed track of gameplay.
Warhammer is easily a better game then AION IMHO.
Torak
I think you have a false impression about AION based on your low level experience and some second hand information.
Aion´s linearity ends after level 25, Aion group content PvE is much more challenging than L2 PvE but less grindy and far, far more challenging than Warhammer´s PvE, you can´t even compare.
After level 25 all paths start to open in Aion, you may find it strange, but middle-endgame in Aion is less linear than Warhammer, AOC etc.
What you call "pre-chewed" track of gameplay ends after the tutorial and middle/end game is not only related to the Abyss.
Sure, I understand it is your opinion, but as I said I really think you have a false impression...
Edit- and btw, The way the Abyss and the endgame work in AION is somehow similar to Warhammer and its keeps, but in a more challenging and functional.
Edit- I am not saying you should like AION, just saying your initial impressions maybe are not a good reflexion of the game, especially comparing to War.
No Lineage 2 had a much large scope, open world...unlike AION. Lineage 2 is actually a fairly good MMO if you give it a chance these days now that the grind is light. Aion doesn't have any grind and it doesn't have a whole lot of challenge either. It is totally dependent on players chasing each other around in the abyss to hang onto it's subs. Lord forbid you want to make an alt or 2. You thought AoC had no replayability...wait.
Dunno what many folks are expecting but yes, Warhammer is pretty linear but they haven't seen anything until they get into AION. I don't know of a game that has a more narrow, pre-chewed track of gameplay. Warhammer is easily a better game then AION IMHO.
I would give your comment some thought if you weren't talking about a game that HAS A FREAKING LINE TO GUIDE YOU THROUGH THE ZONE.
which of the two games has that? and you want to say AION is MORE linear?
Originally posted by Dimensional Originally posted by Korvenus Originally posted by Dimensional Gold advertisments?
Now I know what you typed was a load of bull since you contradict yourself, gold is only advertised in popular games because thats where the demand is... they won't advertise on a dead server.
Besides there are still two servers that have a constant population at peak times so RVR and grouping is usually no problem.
In Europe anyway
(Karak-Azgal and Karak-Norn to anyone interested)
I just like everybody else tried this horrible game when it was first released and it was very popular. Dont make assumptions based on what you think because we all know how that always turns out. I'm not assuming anything, I am just pointing out the fallacies in your argument and besides don't go around saying the game is horrible as fact, I know plenty of people who dislike WAR but I also know plenty of people who enjoy it immensely so stop being a bloody hypocrite.
This is why a game that was released one year ago for $49.99 is now selling for $9.99.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Comments
When the game was frist released there was alot of gold advertising especially mail spam as the game started to sink and when the gold sellers started to release that gold had no value they left with everyone else.
Hopefully, it won't happen to Aion, but we'll see if Aion and Warhammer have the same fate, happens to most upcoming MMOs such as Age of Conan and WAR.
No Lineage 2 had a much large scope, open world...unlike AION. Lineage 2 is actually a fairly good MMO if you give it a chance these days now that the grind is light. Aion doesn't have any grind and it doesn't have a whole lot of challenge either. It is totally dependent on players chasing each other around in the abyss to hang onto it's subs. Lord forbid you want to make an alt or 2. You thought AoC had no replayability...wait.
Dunno what many folks are expecting but yes, Warhammer is pretty linear but they haven't seen anything until they get into AION. I don't know of a game that has a more narrow, pre-chewed track of gameplay.
Warhammer is easily a better game then AION IMHO.
No offence, but i'ts safe to say you haven't even played Aion let alone past level 20, if you did you would know that past level 20 a lot of new areas open and you get a huge amount of quests, there is no grind in Aion it's why Ncsoft has introduced over 1500 new quests in the latest patch.
At level 20 every class starts blooming, so take your fail somewhere else instead of bashing aion, especially something you have absolutely no idea about.
Goldsellers paradise ? again a proof that you are not playing the beta, there is not one single goldsellers advertism going on ..because there arent any.
I agree with you, except the Red part.
There was plenty of goldspam and powerlevel services spam going on already during Open Beta.
Cheers
No Lineage 2 had a much large scope, open world...unlike AION. Lineage 2 is actually a fairly good MMO if you give it a chance these days now that the grind is light. Aion doesn't have any grind and it doesn't have a whole lot of challenge either. It is totally dependent on players chasing each other around in the abyss to hang onto it's subs. Lord forbid you want to make an alt or 2. You thought AoC had no replayability...wait.
Dunno what many folks are expecting but yes, Warhammer is pretty linear but they haven't seen anything until they get into AION. I don't know of a game that has a more narrow, pre-chewed track of gameplay.
Warhammer is easily a better game then AION IMHO.
The problem is, WAR is failing worldwide, and its failing pretty hard, while Aion is not failing in the East, and we will see about the west. In either case, apparently WAR is not a better game for what its supposed to achieve, mainly making money and keeping people entertained.
See, thats really the tragedy about WAR and AoC: Both tried a lot of new ideas, both are lauded for many concepts, but nobody plays them anymore. I am one of these people myself, I loved scenarios for levelling, I liked t1 and t2 RvR, even some parts of T3, I liked the classes etc., but I quit and will never come back.
Why? Because although we hail and laud and cheer for so many ideas like open parties, public quests, scenario levelling, pvp from level 1 etc., ultimately it always comes down to a solid mass of working content, a decent balance, and long-term goals. These keep MMORPGs alive.
WAR and AoC just proved that even if you have the best gravy in the world, if your meat has been trimmed down even the slightest to pay for that gravy, you ll end up bleeding subs.
I would have loved for both of these games to succeed, and prove that WoW or Aion are indeed not the right way to go, but reality clearly indicates that WoW and Aion are indeed still what people expect from MMOs that are to last.
More than anything, poor performance killed Warhammer. After that it was blance - both population and class balance. After those it was end game design.
Incompetence killed Warhammer, not being too different or not different enough.
From what I have heard, Aion runs very well. That, along with being different enough (with RvR aspects) from WoW, will make it a decent performer in the West.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
How can you say Aion is lasting when it has not started yet?
I has actually started and has quite a lot subscribers, but you must mean western release hasn't started yet?
I agree that WAR is failing badly...
Your points however are not adequate to make a solid argument against WARs content / meat.
Aion will probably have a lot of success for 2 reasons
I completely fail to see how AION measures up to WAR but I am an idiot. I played AION to level 20 in beta (which was the cap at the time) All AION has to offer is a whole lot of "rat killing" and PvP in the abyss that is periodically interupted by an NPC faction to keep one side from dominating the server.
So...if you like it simple, go with AION. It totally unchallenges you on just about every level and that seems to be what the current MMO market is after these days...pretty graphics and no challenge, kill some rats and do a generic endgame....welcome to AION.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
RIP Orc Choppa
I just like everybody else tried this horrible game when it was first released and it was very popular. Dont make assumptions based on what you think because we all know how that always turns out.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
I respect your opinion. But like I said, I don't want to discuss these things in the honey moon period. I wish you all the gaming fun.
But the downfall of single subscription based games has nothing to do with polish or "broken promisses" or any other management.
We will discuss this at a proper time. I see Aoin as a gift to confirm the theory I already saw 3 years ago.
An in depth discussion will follow later, when the honeymoon is over.
Im replying to the thread by Khaunshar. You maybe right of course that Aion may tank in the west when the initial hype is over and hover around 100k. We will see.
Sorry if i dont get what you mean...
RIP Orc Choppa
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
why war fail ,same reason most new mmo fail
they release a game same way as wow and expect it to do good by itself lol
¸player got wow if they wanted static they would play wow
player wants to get involved in game,like they dont want to grind just to grind gees
espacially in the p2p ,its sad but game now has to be a bit like lotery
yes,yes i know some will be mad! people pay to play game so they want stuff in return
not the free skin etc,they want live event in game ,athene showeed us that 4000 player in wow waited for that to happen ,couldnt
wow servercouldnty handle 4000 player in same area,
in 2 month if athene had made it ,he would probably have ended with 100k player for a live event in the future
yep live is that big
people dont want to play a static mmo anymore there are ton of game that you can mmo without being seen etc
hell player could play on console instead ,they go to mmo because they expect and demand from companys like ncsoft and all the other
what will you organise nowe that game is released ,if the game company answer well the game is there YOU can organise something .that company lost the long term fight right there
and for some that believe wow is dying.lol
they re workingon cataclysm !they released lot of info and the game is still far
we can all say this will be wow 2 .and if no gaming company do like gw did
wow will sure be able to do it now with a complete overooul of there game
¸before they just couldnt do what gw did,techno wasnt there when wow lunched
but today techno is there.
game maker are funy they release game they say to gamer ok now game is released now play !
and game maker go take a beer and think the game will be cool all by itself
in wow days it was like that !not anymore!
See, no matter how we slice it, there are plenty of features in WAR and also AoC that work, and have worked decently to perfectly since launch. Many of these features (scenario levelling, low tier PvP, many classes, PvP from Level 1, public quests, open parties to name the most prevalent of WAR) are now used to claim the game is superior to its competitor(s), too. And they are supposedly the big selling points.
So, why does the game not work out even though these things have always been there, and have always worked?
Possibility A) Even though people CLAIM these things are great, the next step, fresh, and the reason to play WAR, they are not enough to outweigh the lack of the more traditional stuff from WoW and Aion. They are nice-to-have, but in the end, not as good as if you left them out, but made a traditional MMO with solid dungeons etc. instead.
Possbility
Technical quality and problems outweigh these factors by far. No matter how good your game, if it has bugs at launch, you are done for, because that weighs heavier than any amount of great design. Which again points out that you dont get players by making good new features, but by retreading the old ground and polishing it to a sheen.
Possibility C) People actually dont like these innovative fresh features really. They dont care, and the whole world of message boards brimming with demands for innovation and fresh ideas is junk.
I think its pretty much A, with a bit of B mixed in. People really ARE happy playing the same old, same old, if its done well. At least, they prefer it to fresh, new games with some kinks, or fresh games that do not also deliver the same old, same old.
Innovation has always been risky, and in MMOs the risk has a bigger pricetag. There is a reason for that. Most innovative games fail, because the market does usually not want that much innovation at all. Just veterans like you and me who have played and seen most of it put that much value on something being "fresh", and we are pretty fickle anyway.
LMAO
"Suffer not the mutant to live!"
I just like everybody else tried this horrible game when it was first released and it was very popular. Dont make assumptions based on what you think because we all know how that always turns out.
I'm not assuming anything, I am just pointing out the fallacies in your argument and besides don't go around saying the game is horrible as fact, I know plenty of people who dislike WAR but I also know plenty of people who enjoy it immensely so stop being a bloody hypocrite.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
Actually what players want and say they want are two different things, while i do agree that the concept in WAR is good , its execution is eh ehmmm... "crap" , the games still are focused on leveling and what skills you get when you hit lvl X, being 40 ( for example ) the pinnacle of your achievements ingame followed by "Epic kits" for whose you need to grind missions over and over and over and over again, and then its the braggin rights that keep you in the game until the player is bored and so on ....
Aion will not bring anything different, Warhammer in itself has the potencial of creating something fresh and unbound by the level system that every single game ( except EVE-O ) has.
Aion will be the new fluff for people that are either bored of WOW or displeasured with WAR, not the end of WAR or WOW , since it brings nothing new ( you can fly ... yay ) , in the end its a game with the same structure as the others, only the story changes.
The failure of War and AoC is not because players like the way WoW or Aion PvP. From the initial numbers of players buying the games you will see that actually the idea of what these 2 games offer is actually what players want. And players is tired of WoW and ready to jump ship.
They fail because of the execution, the implementations of the game. The arrogant of the upper managements of saying that their game will suppress WoW, that their game is like steak!
But ultimately the unfinish, buggy, rush to release is what kills them. And for lack of a better game out there, players goes back to where they come from. I.E, WoW, etc...
So War and AoC does have great idea. Ideas that players want in pvp.
For Aion, i play it because im currently very bored of WoW and there's not a better game out there. So Aion for me is a stop-gap, which hopefully will tide me till Cata or the next better mmo is release, whichever happens first...
I respect your opinion. But like I said, I don't want to discuss these things in the honey moon period. I wish you all the gaming fun.
But the downfall of single subscription based games has nothing to do with polish or "broken promisses" or any other management.
We will discuss this at a proper time. I see Aoin as a gift to confirm the theory I already saw 3 years ago.
An in depth discussion will follow later, when the honeymoon is over.
The great Zorndorf speaks and so it must be !!!
~~"Zorndorf marches back to the land of wow with his head held high for all to see"~~
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
WoW is like McDonald, nobody really like it but we all eat it.
Stop complaining and move your ass.
There's better things to do besides level up from killing players VIA PVP.
WoW is like McDonalds, if going to McDonalds meant being served crack, and sharing a meal with Kanye West.
No Lineage 2 had a much large scope, open world...unlike AION. Lineage 2 is actually a fairly good MMO if you give it a chance these days now that the grind is light. Aion doesn't have any grind and it doesn't have a whole lot of challenge either. It is totally dependent on players chasing each other around in the abyss to hang onto it's subs. Lord forbid you want to make an alt or 2. You thought AoC had no replayability...wait.
Dunno what many folks are expecting but yes, Warhammer is pretty linear but they haven't seen anything until they get into AION. I don't know of a game that has a more narrow, pre-chewed track of gameplay.
Warhammer is easily a better game then AION IMHO.
Torak
I think you have a false impression about AION based on your low level experience and some second hand information.
Aion´s linearity ends after level 25, Aion group content PvE is much more challenging than L2 PvE but less grindy and far, far more challenging than Warhammer´s PvE, you can´t even compare.
After level 25 all paths start to open in Aion, you may find it strange, but middle-endgame in Aion is less linear than Warhammer, AOC etc.
What you call "pre-chewed" track of gameplay ends after the tutorial and middle/end game is not only related to the Abyss.
Sure, I understand it is your opinion, but as I said I really think you have a false impression...
Edit- and btw, The way the Abyss and the endgame work in AION is somehow similar to Warhammer and its keeps, but in a more challenging and functional.
Edit- I am not saying you should like AION, just saying your initial impressions maybe are not a good reflexion of the game, especially comparing to War.
I would give your comment some thought if you weren't talking about a game that HAS A FREAKING LINE TO GUIDE YOU THROUGH THE ZONE.
which of the two games has that? and you want to say AION is MORE linear?
My Thoughts on Content Locust
I'm not assuming anything, I am just pointing out the fallacies in your argument and besides don't go around saying the game is horrible as fact, I know plenty of people who dislike WAR but I also know plenty of people who enjoy it immensely so stop being a bloody hypocrite.
This is why a game that was released one year ago for $49.99 is now selling for $9.99.
Because plenty of people are playing it.
....
"TO MICHAEL!"
This topic has so much fricken fail in it, it makes my eyes bleed.
List of legions on Zikel(some you may know): www.aionsource.com/forum/zikel-east/45653-list-zikel-legions.html
Asmodian (48 Legions)
A New Level
Aevum
Apotheosis
Asura Dyeus - PvPvE
Blood Foundry (Subject to change) - PvPvE
Bloodlust - All Content
Circle 7 - PvP
Clique du Chateau
Dark Order
Das Ubel - PvP
Dire Tempest - PvPvE
Disturbed
Dorlach Sgath - PvPvE
Echelon NA
Element
Endeavour - PvPvE, PvE
Grigori - PvP
Grudge - PvPvE
Faded - PvP, PvE, PvPvE
Final Dawn
Hammerfist - All Content
Iconic - All Content
Imperial - All Content
Infamous
Legendary
Lunacy
[LBB] Lunchbox Bandits - PvP
Maelstrom - PvPvE
Mutiny - PvPvE
NEMESIS
Oculus
Omen
Order of Shadow
OriginalSwagger
Plague - PvP
RavenWolf - PvP, PvE, PvPvE
Requiem - All
Sin Filled Afterlife - PvP, PvE, PvPvE
Stormriders
Talio Asasa
Tempest Wolves
The Imperial Guards
Titans Exodus - PvP, PvE, PvPvE
TROIKA - PvP
Turmoil
The Unholy Legion
Versus - PvP
War Ensemble - PvPvE
Elyos (32)
Afterlife
Aion Bunnies
Aletheia - All Content
Angels of Vengence - PvPvE
Asgard
The Black Company
dEranged - PvP, PvE, PvPvE
The Ebon Fold - PvE, PvP, PvPvE
Eidolon - PvP
Eridanos
Frenzy - All Content
Korosu
League of Light
Manhattan Project - PvP
Manifest Destiny - PvPvE, PvP
Nocturnal - PvP, PvE, PvPvE
Prophecy - PvPvE, PvE
Providence - PvP & PvE, PvPvE
Raven NA
Reverence - PvP
The Remnant
Rising Dragoon - All Content
Sendero - PvPvE, PvE
Serenity - PvPvE
The Sorcelators
Sturmgrenadier
Swagger Inc - PvP
United Exodus - PvP
The Unsummoned - PvP, PvE, PvPvE
Valhalla
Velocity
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...