Originally posted by Obraik So now we're suddenly switching from talking about SOE as a whole to SWG? As you should have read, my posts have been in relation to the argument that has meen mentioned in this thread that SOE is shrinking. If you read through this thread, I haven't commented at all on SWG and whether it's shrinking or growing.
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
Originally posted by Obraik So now we're suddenly switching from talking about SOE as a whole to SWG? As you should have read, my posts have been in relation to the argument that has meen mentioned in this thread that SOE is shrinking. If you read through this thread, I haven't commented at all on SWG and whether it's shrinking or growing.
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
You can't take the actions in one game and apply it to the company as a whole. Based on your list, you're also looking a little too far into some things, or spinning them to your own purpose.
SWG might be lacking expansions but other SOE games have been recieving them. SWG's TCG, whether you like it or not, is about to recieve its 4th expansion and appears to be doing well saleswise (whether you agree with those sales is not something I'm going to debate in this thread. I've posted my view on this in other threads months ago). FreeRealms appears to be going well for them based on all the success annoucements they keep releasing.
Layoffs don't mean a whole lot in this time. With the recession crap going on, it's rare to find a company that hasn't had to drop staff.
People have been shifted off other projects onto SWG, not just off it. An EQ2 Dev was recently transferred to SWG to take over a role. If you're saying staff transfers mean that a company is failing then I'd have to question your theory around this. Companies transfer staff all the time, especially within bigger companies. My company that I work for just transferred 3 staff members to different positions today, for instance and it's certainly not failing Lead staff moving onto their own position isn't exactly abnormal either - people do eventually outgrow their roles and have their own goals they'd like to fulfill that don't fit with the companies goals.
I'd love to see your explination on how new revenue models can be a bad thing. I'm trying to see how keeping up with the market demand is considered bad.
I'm sure this will generate replys of "you're just saying that because you like SWG and you're an SOE nuthugger" but that's pretty much the point of what I've been saying in a number of posts in this thread. All these things you're listing as indicators aren't hard evidence at all. They're seen as bad indicators by you based on your opinion of what they mean - for instance I can only imagine you listed new revenue models since you don't like the new models they're using and prefer the traditional ways instead and because of this you see it as a bad indicator, ignoring the fact that there is indeed an entire market that much prefers the new way (I'm not one of them). Maybe you listed staff transfers because you've never been part of a large company before. My point is, as long as your "indicators" are based on your opinion, they never will be "indicators".
Originally posted by Obraik So now we're suddenly switching from talking about SOE as a whole to SWG? As you should have read, my posts have been in relation to the argument that has meen mentioned in this thread that SOE is shrinking. If you read through this thread, I haven't commented at all on SWG and whether it's shrinking or growing.
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
You can't take the actions in one game and apply it to the company as a whole. Based on your list, you're also looking a little too far into some things, or spinning them to your own purpose.
SWG might be lacking expansions but other SOE games have been recieving them. SWG's TCG, whether you like it or not, is about to recieve its 4th expansion and appears to be doing well saleswise (whether you agree with those sales is not something I'm going to debate in this thread. I've posted my view on this in other threads months ago). FreeRealms appears to be going well for them based on all the success annoucements they keep releasing.
Layoffs don't mean a whole lot in this time. With the recession crap going on, it's rare to find a company that hasn't had to drop staff.
People have been shifted off other projects onto SWG, not just off it. An EQ2 Dev was recently transferred to SWG to take over a role. If you're saying staff transfers mean that a company is failing then I'd have to question your theory around this. Companies transfer staff all the time, especially within bigger companies. My company that I work for just transferred 3 staff members to different positions today, for instance and it's certainly not failing Lead staff moving onto their own position isn't exactly abnormal either - people do eventually outgrow their roles and have their own goals they'd like to fulfill that don't fit with the companies goals.
I'd love to see your explination on how new revenue models can be a bad thing. I'm trying to see how keeping up with the market demand is considered bad.
I'm sure this will generate replys of "you're just saying that because you like SWG and you're an SOE nuthugger" but that's pretty much the point of what I've been saying in a number of posts in this thread. All these things you're listing as indicators aren't hard evidence at all. They're seen as bad indicators by you based on your opinion of what they mean - for instance I can only imagine you listed new revenue models since you don't like the new models they're using and prefer the traditional ways instead and because of this you see it as a bad indicator, ignoring the fact that there is indeed an entire market that much prefers the new way (I'm not one of them). Maybe you listed staff transfers because you've never been part of a large company before. My point is, as long as your "indicators" are based on your opinion, they never will be "indicators".
Originally posted by Obraik So now we're suddenly switching from talking about SOE as a whole to SWG? As you should have read, my posts have been in relation to the argument that has meen mentioned in this thread that SOE is shrinking. If you read through this thread, I haven't commented at all on SWG and whether it's shrinking or growing.
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
You can't take the actions in one game and apply it to the company as a whole. Based on your list, you're also looking a little too far into some things, or spinning them to your own purpose.
SWG might be lacking expansions but other SOE games have been recieving them. SWG's TCG, whether you like it or not, is about to recieve its 4th expansion and appears to be doing well saleswise (whether you agree with those sales is not something I'm going to debate in this thread. I've posted my view on this in other threads months ago). FreeRealms appears to be going well for them based on all the success annoucements they keep releasing.
Layoffs don't mean a whole lot in this time. With the recession crap going on, it's rare to find a company that hasn't had to drop staff.
People have been shifted off other projects onto SWG, not just off it. An EQ2 Dev was recently transferred to SWG to take over a role. If you're saying staff transfers mean that a company is failing then I'd have to question your theory around this. Companies transfer staff all the time, especially within bigger companies. My company that I work for just transferred 3 staff members to different positions today, for instance and it's certainly not failing Lead staff moving onto their own position isn't exactly abnormal either - people do eventually outgrow their roles and have their own goals they'd like to fulfill that don't fit with the companies goals.
I'd love to see your explination on how new revenue models can be a bad thing. I'm trying to see how keeping up with the market demand is considered bad.
I'm sure this will generate replys of "you're just saying that because you like SWG and you're an SOE nuthugger" but that's pretty much the point of what I've been saying in a number of posts in this thread. All these things you're listing as indicators aren't hard evidence at all. They're seen as bad indicators by you based on your opinion of what they mean - for instance I can only imagine you listed new revenue models since you don't like the new models they're using and prefer the traditional ways instead and because of this you see it as a bad indicator, ignoring the fact that there is indeed an entire market that much prefers the new way (I'm not one of them). Maybe you listed staff transfers because you've never been part of a large company before. My point is, as long as your "indicators" are based on your opinion, they never will be "indicators".
Do you believe in Santa Claus?
Obraik impersonation:
/hands cover ears "There is no concrete evidence... and yes"
To the O.P.. You know, in case it hasn't been said, it was good of you to let people know about the planned server closures. This may affect people, and a heads up is always appreciated in my view. Thanks.
Originally posted by Obraik So now we're suddenly switching from talking about SOE as a whole to SWG? As you should have read, my posts have been in relation to the argument that has meen mentioned in this thread that SOE is shrinking. If you read through this thread, I haven't commented at all on SWG and whether it's shrinking or growing.
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
You can't take the actions in one game and apply it to the company as a whole. Based on your list, you're also looking a little too far into some things, or spinning them to your own purpose.
SWG might be lacking expansions but other SOE games have been recieving them. SWG's TCG, whether you like it or not, is about to recieve its 4th expansion and appears to be doing well saleswise (whether you agree with those sales is not something I'm going to debate in this thread. I've posted my view on this in other threads months ago). FreeRealms appears to be going well for them based on all the success annoucements they keep releasing.
Layoffs don't mean a whole lot in this time. With the recession crap going on, it's rare to find a company that hasn't had to drop staff.
People have been shifted off other projects onto SWG, not just off it. An EQ2 Dev was recently transferred to SWG to take over a role. If you're saying staff transfers mean that a company is failing then I'd have to question your theory around this. Companies transfer staff all the time, especially within bigger companies. My company that I work for just transferred 3 staff members to different positions today, for instance and it's certainly not failing Lead staff moving onto their own position isn't exactly abnormal either - people do eventually outgrow their roles and have their own goals they'd like to fulfill that don't fit with the companies goals.
I'd love to see your explination on how new revenue models can be a bad thing. I'm trying to see how keeping up with the market demand is considered bad.
I'm sure this will generate replys of "you're just saying that because you like SWG and you're an SOE nuthugger" but that's pretty much the point of what I've been saying in a number of posts in this thread. All these things you're listing as indicators aren't hard evidence at all. They're seen as bad indicators by you based on your opinion of what they mean - for instance I can only imagine you listed new revenue models since you don't like the new models they're using and prefer the traditional ways instead and because of this you see it as a bad indicator, ignoring the fact that there is indeed an entire market that much prefers the new way (I'm not one of them). Maybe you listed staff transfers because you've never been part of a large company before. My point is, as long as your "indicators" are based on your opinion, they never will be "indicators".
Meh, I've edited my wall of text since I don't think you're open to any information or opinions that challenge your position. I have made observations, and yes based on those I have formed opinions.
It's my opinion that layoffs, resignations, server closures, low populations, a game closure, and business models that introduce additional fees could all be indicators that things are not going as well as they could be. You're free to disagree of course, but I think my position is more credible. I'm happy to let other readers/gamers come to their own conclusions.
Guys, REALLY, when you quote someone PLEASE remove unnessary text and exessive quotes from your post! We don't need to know what was said by some thrid party five pages ago to get the gist of the point you are trying to make. Just highlight the parts of the LAST POST that you are posting a reply to and omit as much of the rest as possible. It really makes it a lot easier to read through these 15+ page threads.
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like: -server closures -game closure -layoffs -lack of expansions -reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects -lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere -new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription. Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
Originally posted by ArcAngel3 I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like: -server closures -game closure -layoffs -lack of expansions -reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects -lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere -new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription. Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
BRILLIANT reply!!!
Thanks. Now just imagine what SWG could be like if the folks making the decisions about the game actually listened to honest feedback (even if it's painful to hear at first). Pity that seems to be a skill-set that's lacking.
Instead they seem to listen mainly to what they want to hear: everything is fine, you're doing a great job, the latest revamp (pick one) makes the game more fun, TCG is a wonderful addition, the future looks bright despite server closures, and thanks for the flying Ewoks and zombies.
Comments
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
These forums had become pretty boring over recent months and I didn't have enough free time to justify visiting them anymore.
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
You can't take the actions in one game and apply it to the company as a whole. Based on your list, you're also looking a little too far into some things, or spinning them to your own purpose.
SWG might be lacking expansions but other SOE games have been recieving them. SWG's TCG, whether you like it or not, is about to recieve its 4th expansion and appears to be doing well saleswise (whether you agree with those sales is not something I'm going to debate in this thread. I've posted my view on this in other threads months ago). FreeRealms appears to be going well for them based on all the success annoucements they keep releasing.
Layoffs don't mean a whole lot in this time. With the recession crap going on, it's rare to find a company that hasn't had to drop staff.
People have been shifted off other projects onto SWG, not just off it. An EQ2 Dev was recently transferred to SWG to take over a role. If you're saying staff transfers mean that a company is failing then I'd have to question your theory around this. Companies transfer staff all the time, especially within bigger companies. My company that I work for just transferred 3 staff members to different positions today, for instance and it's certainly not failing
Lead staff moving onto their own position isn't exactly abnormal either - people do eventually outgrow their roles and have their own goals they'd like to fulfill that don't fit with the companies goals.
I'd love to see your explination on how new revenue models can be a bad thing. I'm trying to see how keeping up with the market demand is considered bad.
I'm sure this will generate replys of "you're just saying that because you like SWG and you're an SOE nuthugger" but that's pretty much the point of what I've been saying in a number of posts in this thread. All these things you're listing as indicators aren't hard evidence at all. They're seen as bad indicators by you based on your opinion of what they mean - for instance I can only imagine you listed new revenue models since you don't like the new models they're using and prefer the traditional ways instead and because of this you see it as a bad indicator, ignoring the fact that there is indeed an entire market that much prefers the new way (I'm not one of them). Maybe you listed staff transfers because you've never been part of a large company before. My point is, as long as your "indicators" are based on your opinion, they never will be "indicators".
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
You can't take the actions in one game and apply it to the company as a whole. Based on your list, you're also looking a little too far into some things, or spinning them to your own purpose.
SWG might be lacking expansions but other SOE games have been recieving them. SWG's TCG, whether you like it or not, is about to recieve its 4th expansion and appears to be doing well saleswise (whether you agree with those sales is not something I'm going to debate in this thread. I've posted my view on this in other threads months ago). FreeRealms appears to be going well for them based on all the success annoucements they keep releasing.
Layoffs don't mean a whole lot in this time. With the recession crap going on, it's rare to find a company that hasn't had to drop staff.
People have been shifted off other projects onto SWG, not just off it. An EQ2 Dev was recently transferred to SWG to take over a role. If you're saying staff transfers mean that a company is failing then I'd have to question your theory around this. Companies transfer staff all the time, especially within bigger companies. My company that I work for just transferred 3 staff members to different positions today, for instance and it's certainly not failing
Lead staff moving onto their own position isn't exactly abnormal either - people do eventually outgrow their roles and have their own goals they'd like to fulfill that don't fit with the companies goals.
I'd love to see your explination on how new revenue models can be a bad thing. I'm trying to see how keeping up with the market demand is considered bad.
I'm sure this will generate replys of "you're just saying that because you like SWG and you're an SOE nuthugger" but that's pretty much the point of what I've been saying in a number of posts in this thread. All these things you're listing as indicators aren't hard evidence at all. They're seen as bad indicators by you based on your opinion of what they mean - for instance I can only imagine you listed new revenue models since you don't like the new models they're using and prefer the traditional ways instead and because of this you see it as a bad indicator, ignoring the fact that there is indeed an entire market that much prefers the new way (I'm not one of them). Maybe you listed staff transfers because you've never been part of a large company before. My point is, as long as your "indicators" are based on your opinion, they never will be "indicators".
Do you believe in Santa Claus?
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
You can't take the actions in one game and apply it to the company as a whole. Based on your list, you're also looking a little too far into some things, or spinning them to your own purpose.
SWG might be lacking expansions but other SOE games have been recieving them. SWG's TCG, whether you like it or not, is about to recieve its 4th expansion and appears to be doing well saleswise (whether you agree with those sales is not something I'm going to debate in this thread. I've posted my view on this in other threads months ago). FreeRealms appears to be going well for them based on all the success annoucements they keep releasing.
Layoffs don't mean a whole lot in this time. With the recession crap going on, it's rare to find a company that hasn't had to drop staff.
People have been shifted off other projects onto SWG, not just off it. An EQ2 Dev was recently transferred to SWG to take over a role. If you're saying staff transfers mean that a company is failing then I'd have to question your theory around this. Companies transfer staff all the time, especially within bigger companies. My company that I work for just transferred 3 staff members to different positions today, for instance and it's certainly not failing
Lead staff moving onto their own position isn't exactly abnormal either - people do eventually outgrow their roles and have their own goals they'd like to fulfill that don't fit with the companies goals.
I'd love to see your explination on how new revenue models can be a bad thing. I'm trying to see how keeping up with the market demand is considered bad.
I'm sure this will generate replys of "you're just saying that because you like SWG and you're an SOE nuthugger" but that's pretty much the point of what I've been saying in a number of posts in this thread. All these things you're listing as indicators aren't hard evidence at all. They're seen as bad indicators by you based on your opinion of what they mean - for instance I can only imagine you listed new revenue models since you don't like the new models they're using and prefer the traditional ways instead and because of this you see it as a bad indicator, ignoring the fact that there is indeed an entire market that much prefers the new way (I'm not one of them). Maybe you listed staff transfers because you've never been part of a large company before. My point is, as long as your "indicators" are based on your opinion, they never will be "indicators".
Do you believe in Santa Claus?
Obraik impersonation:
/hands cover ears "There is no concrete evidence... and yes"
To the O.P.. You know, in case it hasn't been said, it was good of you to let people know about the planned server closures. This may affect people, and a heads up is always appreciated in my view. Thanks.
I didn't realize WE were talking about SOE. Saying WE in your statement really surprises me, because you have not really spent much time actually talking about the issue. You have spent a great deal of time trying to turn this discussion into a debate over NCSoft. How facts are actually opinions and nothing can be proven in this thread. How soe releases games with to many servers.
There are plenty of factual points brought up in this thread that do indeed show soe mmos are declining. I would be more than happy to discuss any of the information that has been posted here if you would like. Please go right ahead and pick some. Explain why it is not a fact and instead an opinion. At least try to address the points brought up instead of word smithing more derailment.
SWG is part of SOE and SWG is shrinking, just like all of their mmos. We can talk about the company as a whole or each of their games individually if you like. The results are going to be the same regardless, because their entire mmo base is shrinking. SWG is just one example of the companies overall performace. Showing that SWG is declining is also showing that SOE is declining. Why nitpick one example that supports the topic?
Let me know if you want to actually discuss the issues ok? I would love to see the rationale you use to formulate your theories and think it would make great discussion if you ever chose to join in.
Considering the words in the recent posts have been "SOE" and not "SWG", how could you not realise that the discussion has been about SOE as a whole?
I'd love to hear the "facts" that validate the majority of the claims here and I'd like to see your irrefutable evidence that shows how these facts are true. Hint: If I can argue a different point of view for the evidence you post then it's not irrefutable.
Lol, sometimes I think you must be a politician. People have talked about SOE as a whole and SWG specifically at different times in the thread.
I've always been of a mind that you'll post in defense of SOE (or SWG) no matter what. Any evidence that suggests real problems (with either) tends to be ignored. People have talked about devs leaving, servers closing etc. in SWG, and all you have to say is that none of this matters because people don't have an exact subscription count.
Is an exact count the only available evidence of a reduced population? Lol of course not. Servers get shut down because they are under-populated. It's that simple. Did you miss the summit where Smed promised server merges because people were complaining about low populations on so many of them?
In case you've overlooked this for some reason, a low population is an undesirable situation for an MMO. Tbh, I don't expect you to acknowledge any of this. I simply don't think a simple recognition of such things is in your game plan. What I'm really doing is calling you on your apparent denial. You can do with that whatever you like.
Denial of what? I haven't talked about SWG specifically in any of my posts in this thread, my discussion has been in response to those making claims about SOE and as such, my replies have been on that topic. I haven't denied that this is proof that SWG's subscriptions have fallen over the years. I welcome you to show me otherwise.
Lol I'll take obfuscation for 500 Alex. Ahem, now that I've collected myself, you do realize that when you talk about the health of SOE games in general, this of course includes SWG?
You have talked about SOE games, including SWG, and said that without hard subscription figures people can't comment on the health of the games or the company. That's pretty handy btw, since this one indicator isn't publicly available -_^.
I, and others of course, pointed out that hard numbers are not the only indicators of the relative success of a game or company. Other indicators may include things like:
-server closures
-game closure
-layoffs
-lack of expansions
-reductions in staffing via transfers to other projects
-lead staff on new projects resigning to start their own work elsewhere
-new revenue models designed to charge extra for features that used to be part of the subscription.
Btw, some of these items refer to SOE as a whole, others refer specifically to SWG. That should about cover everything ^_^. Now, you can deny that these indicators exist if you like, or you can acknowledge them. Probably the only thing on the line at this point though is your credibility.
You can't take the actions in one game and apply it to the company as a whole. Based on your list, you're also looking a little too far into some things, or spinning them to your own purpose.
SWG might be lacking expansions but other SOE games have been recieving them. SWG's TCG, whether you like it or not, is about to recieve its 4th expansion and appears to be doing well saleswise (whether you agree with those sales is not something I'm going to debate in this thread. I've posted my view on this in other threads months ago). FreeRealms appears to be going well for them based on all the success annoucements they keep releasing.
Layoffs don't mean a whole lot in this time. With the recession crap going on, it's rare to find a company that hasn't had to drop staff.
People have been shifted off other projects onto SWG, not just off it. An EQ2 Dev was recently transferred to SWG to take over a role. If you're saying staff transfers mean that a company is failing then I'd have to question your theory around this. Companies transfer staff all the time, especially within bigger companies. My company that I work for just transferred 3 staff members to different positions today, for instance and it's certainly not failing
Lead staff moving onto their own position isn't exactly abnormal either - people do eventually outgrow their roles and have their own goals they'd like to fulfill that don't fit with the companies goals.
I'd love to see your explination on how new revenue models can be a bad thing. I'm trying to see how keeping up with the market demand is considered bad.
I'm sure this will generate replys of "you're just saying that because you like SWG and you're an SOE nuthugger" but that's pretty much the point of what I've been saying in a number of posts in this thread. All these things you're listing as indicators aren't hard evidence at all. They're seen as bad indicators by you based on your opinion of what they mean - for instance I can only imagine you listed new revenue models since you don't like the new models they're using and prefer the traditional ways instead and because of this you see it as a bad indicator, ignoring the fact that there is indeed an entire market that much prefers the new way (I'm not one of them). Maybe you listed staff transfers because you've never been part of a large company before. My point is, as long as your "indicators" are based on your opinion, they never will be "indicators".
Meh, I've edited my wall of text since I don't think you're open to any information or opinions that challenge your position. I have made observations, and yes based on those I have formed opinions.
It's my opinion that layoffs, resignations, server closures, low populations, a game closure, and business models that introduce additional fees could all be indicators that things are not going as well as they could be. You're free to disagree of course, but I think my position is more credible. I'm happy to let other readers/gamers come to their own conclusions.
ARG!
Guys, REALLY, when you quote someone PLEASE remove unnessary text and exessive quotes from your post! We don't need to know what was said by some thrid party five pages ago to get the gist of the point you are trying to make. Just highlight the parts of the LAST POST that you are posting a reply to and omit as much of the rest as possible. It really makes it a lot easier to read through these 15+ page threads.
The History of the Order of The Golden Shields
Yeah, what he said...
Lol, well at least I got rid of my own wall of text in what I think is likely a futile conversation anyways :P Good advice though.
BRILLIANT reply!!!
BRILLIANT reply!!!
Thanks. Now just imagine what SWG could be like if the folks making the decisions about the game actually listened to honest feedback (even if it's painful to hear at first). Pity that seems to be a skill-set that's lacking.
Instead they seem to listen mainly to what they want to hear: everything is fine, you're doing a great job, the latest revamp (pick one) makes the game more fun, TCG is a wonderful addition, the future looks bright despite server closures, and thanks for the flying Ewoks and zombies.
RIP Europe Infinity. Good times.
Aye good times indeed (Ex O.R.R)
Ashes to Ashes Dust to Dust