I would love to see a good vampire MMO, but expect we'd probably get some version of "Twilight" , "Buffy", or "Lost Boys" instead, where the vampires are "kewl doodz" teenagers with superpowers.
Would be nice to see a vampire MMO in the "vein" of "Dark Shadows" or the old Hammer films. After all, if vampires can be centuries old, would they not act more mature and cultured, and not zip around on skate boards and posing as"kewl doodz"?
Maybe the answer would be "Mature" servers that cost an extra $8 or so per month. Would separate the "Buffy's" from the "Barnabas's". (And this tactic could be the answer to community problems in any MMO; I'd pay extra to play on a mature server.)
At this point I think all of us are ready for something different than a typical fantasy MMO. I like your vampire idea, especially the moral choices and alternate solution to problem aspect. I hope the World of Darkness MMO turns out like this!
*Amazing, rich lore (with hopefully, as well written dialog)
*The battle between the Vampires, The Hilden, and Saraphan is prime material for a DAoC-ish Trifecta
* Kain and Raziel voice overs please!
This actually has more potential material than WoW did with the Warcraft games before it, if you think about it.
Ironically, despite me actually being a HUGE LoK fan, I'm strictly against it being made into an MMO. Why? Mainly because previous games, although they have given us quite an insight into the world of Nosgohth, it's factions and other things, have remained very story centered and have made use of few characters, but have in exchange explored these characters to unbelievable details.
That's the "problem" with LoK, at least when it comes down to exploring the idea of turning it into an MMO - it's too focused on already existing characters and their stories (and... you know, it deals with time travel and you don't mess with that) aka. it's basically impossible to introduce some random characters (our PCs, that is) and have them actually matter something or contribute anything sensible and useful. Perhaps if the game was situated during some alternative timeframe (for example, in the early days of Kain's rule or something), maybe.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Unless Ann Rice or Whitewolf releases their creator rights... Good luck on making something original involving vampires. Whitewolf and Ann Rice covered everything and in details.
Twilight?
Sorry, that story is basicaly a laugh at human standards. Think about it... an OLD 100+ man with a 16 year old girl. I'm sorry but are we saying that if a 90 year old guy somehow found a way to look young and cute, he could go around and date teenagers? Is that what we're saying? Last i've checked, a granpa with a young girl is wrong... I guess we are blinded by looks.
Also the fact that these vampires don't die by good old sunlight?
True Blood – Well, True blood is basicaly what Vampire the Masquerade is but once the masquerade is lifted lol. Bill is a good Ventrue that once in a while gets a visit of fellow Brujah lol…Though, don’t get me wrong, it’s a great show and I’m glad they inspired themselve from Whitewolf or Ann Rice.
The issue though is that game wise, it’s hard not to copy world of darkness. It’s basicaly the best structure out there and since Whitewolf covers pretty much EVERYTHING, it’s hard to come up with something original now our days. I've played table top and did many live games when I was much younger and got to play through these books, mages, werewolves, vampires...
Legacy of Kain is pretty original though and it could certainly do well as an MMO. Then again, girls would be vampires and guys would all take soul reavers lol...
As for the female audience well you have to remember that some of the early vampire stories were all about the beauty and the beast. Granny loved it, mom loved it and now 16 year old emo/goth teen is loving it. From the get go, Vampire stories were made to appeal both sex.
Vampires are also the elves of world of darkness lol… seriously. The pretty people.
And I'm pretty confident WoD is nowhere near what I outlined in this article.
You are? Why?
The original Vampire the Masquerade lent itself very well to the kind of play your talking about. In fact I always the the Pen and Paper system lent itself better to RP than G. The whole point of the Clans in VTM was that it accomodating all of the Vampire archtypes in a single product. You had the Venture- faggy Anne-Rice types, and the Toreador who are even worse. And then you have the Max Schrek type Nosferatu, the animalisti Gangrel, and the Brujah who like yelling and breaking stuff... and at that's without even making the Sabbat clans playable. My point is within World of Darkness, you can do Twilight (well, except for the Sparkling) and Interview with a Vampire or just as easily 30 Days of Night and From Dusk till Dawn.
WoD is the PERFACT IP for the kind of game your describing, and CCP didn't licence it... they fricken OWN it.
The reason you failed to avoid "CCP is already making World of Darkness" comments is because you simply can't have this conversation without them.
Of frickin course Vampire MMOs are a valid discusssion, but World of Darkness is every bit as important a part of Vampire pop culture as Twilight is and you can't throw out the fact that a popular MMO developer FRICKEN MERGED with the company that created World of Darkness and accept to have a valid conversation about Vampire MMOs.
Ironically, despite me actually being a HUGE LoK fan, I'm strictly against it being made into an MMO. Why? Mainly because previous games, although they have given us quite an insight into the world of Nosgohth, it's factions and other things, have remained very story centered and have made use of few characters, but have in exchange explored these characters to unbelievable details. That's the "problem" with LoK, at least when it comes down to exploring the idea of turning it into an MMO - it's too focused on already existing characters and their stories (and... you know, it deals with time travel and you don't mess with that) aka. it's basically impossible to introduce some random characters (our PCs, that is) and have them actually matter something or contribute anything sensible and useful. Perhaps if the game was situated during some alternative timeframe (for example, in the early days of Kain's rule or something), maybe.
I can see your concern, but I beg to differ on one small point. There is a lot of gaps in the lore that an MMO could fill nicely.
There is little if any exploration of the war that exterminated all of the vampires except for Kain, up until the assaination of Ariel and cumbling of the pillars.. LoK 1, I think touched on it (Not sure, haven't played it in quite some time), but not much. In Soul Reaver 2, I think it was, when Raziel fights himself, it was drawing to a close.
Where was the war? Where were the Hilden in all of this? Who did all the killing? Or even better, go to the time period revealed in the temples in SR2 on the paintings on the wall, where the Soul Reaver was eventually forged. Before the vampires defeated the Hilden.. Surely humans must have existed in that time period, but it never explicitly says they did.
While I agree, using characters directly derived from the canon might have issues, but certainly, in all of Nosgoth, from the time of the war between the Hilden and the Vampires, or the Vampires and the Sarafan, there must have been a lot of nameless soldiers in that war.
Wanting Kain and Raziel voiceovers? That's my selfish part. They have awesome voices behind them that I'd make just about any excuse to hear again.
Joymax, the Korean MMO company that has been dominating the VERY Profitable FtP with Cash Shop world with it's SilkRoad Online game has also had a Vampire MMO out for over 3 years, Darkeden. It is VERY buggy, has a small fanbase that tolerates the bugginess and evidently spends enough in Joymax's cash shop to keep the servers open. Read the game forums.... ROFLMAO.
I agree with alot of the posts here, I mostly agree with
"I would love to see a good vampire MMO, but expect we'd probably get some version of "Twilight" , "Buffy", or "Lost Boys" instead, where the vampires are "kewl doodz" teenagers with superpowers.
Would be nice to see a vampire MMO in the "vein" of "Dark Shadows" or the old Hammer films. After all, if vampires can be centuries old, would they not act more mature and cultured, and not zip around on skate boards and posing as"kewl doodz"?
Maybe the answer would be "Mature" servers that cost an extra $8 or so per month. Would separate the "Buffy's" from the "Barnabas's". (And this tactic could be the answer to community problems in any MMO; I'd pay extra to play on a mature server.)"
But a MMO of this type will not work because.
1) THERE WILL NOT BE ANY OPEN PVP. No MMO todate has had a successful open world pvp system with a large following.
2) SEX SELLS. The hole idea behind a good Vampire movies is because of blood and sex scenes. This game will need to be adults only to handle the R rating it will need to be successful. This will decrease your market by a large number and making of it will be a hard to sell to the people with money.
3) VAMPIRES NEED TO SLEEP. In all the MMOs that I have played, you don't need to sleep, stop, rest, or just stay inside for two threds of the day. If you make a Vampire MMO with Human that Hunt VAMPIRES you will need to make your Vampires stop moving around diring the day light hours.
4) DEATH. What will you do to Vampires and or Humans to make them fill like diing is bad?
5) FEEDING. How do you cover that, what do you do to make a player NEED TO FEED on blood?
But if the devs can cover these points then thay have the makings of a good MMO.
..its a guideline, not a rule, as players we must remember: Its a Game.
And I'm pretty confident WoD is nowhere near what I outlined in this article.
You are? Why?
The original Vampire the Masquerade lent itself very well to the kind of play your talking about. In fact I always the the Pen and Paper system lent itself better to RP than G. The whole point of the Clans in VTM was that it accomodating all of the Vampire archtypes in a single product. You had the Venture- faggy Anne-Rice types, and the Toreador who are even worse. And then you have the Max Schrek type Nosferatu, the animalisti Gangrel, and the Brujah who like yelling and breaking stuff... and at that's without even making the Sabbat clans playable. My point is within World of Darkness, you can do Twilight (well, except for the Sparkling) and Interview with a Vampire or just as easily 30 Days of Night and From Dusk till Dawn.
WoD is the PERFACT IP for the kind of game your describing, and CCP didn't licence it... they fricken OWN it.
The reason you failed to avoid "CCP is already making World of Darkness" comments is because you simply can't have this conversation without them.
Of frickin course Vampire MMOs are a valid discusssion, but World of Darkness is every bit as important a part of Vampire pop culture as Twilight is and you can't throw out the fact that a popular MMO developer FRICKEN MERGED with the company that created World of Darkness and accept to have a valid conversation about Vampire MMOs.
Oh, sorry, I may not have been clear. Of course WoD is a valid discussion. I meant posts saying "you suck, you forgot WoD," which I failed to avoid, despite acknowledging it. I didn't forget WoD, but I don't think the fact that someone is doing that IP invalidates any debate about a vampire MMO as some others have posted.
The point of my article was larger than "what will WoD be" and that's the debate I tried to start. WoD is a part of it, no doubt, but there is far more to it than just one game.
As to WoD being what I describe, maybe they will, but as I said, I doubt it (specifically the female oriented, dual story line stuff).
Dana Massey Formerly of MMORPG.com Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
Joymax, the Korean MMO company that has been dominating the VERY Profitable FtP with Cash Shop world with it's SilkRoad Online game has also had a Vampire MMO out for over 3 years, Darkeden. It is VERY buggy, has a small fanbase that tolerates the bugginess and evidently spends enough in Joymax's cash shop to keep the servers open. Read the game forums.... ROFLMAO.
If a dev. would like my money, they need to make it P2P game.
..its a guideline, not a rule, as players we must remember: Its a Game.
pretty tired of reading these "Why nots" got anything else to write about? i got more why nots than you.
I know you're trying to troll, but honestly, I agree. This was pretty close to the bottom of my "why not" barrel for now
...I'm likely going to adopt a new premise in the coming weeks.
Anyone got any suggestions?
a million ideas how to make whats already out there better. When I first conceived of the idea of MMORPG back in 1994, while playing muds and playing DnD, I imagined something vastly different than WoW.
VAMPIRE MMO -
To capture Male + Female, you'd need to offer different types of vampires...include their origins as part of the story.
1)Ann Rice - Vampires are immortal, tied by bloodline. If the parent burns, then child burns. Origin is by demonic possession of the original, then passed down through Rice's turning ceremony. They have their unique weeknesses. Vampires are sterile.
2)Twilight - first off, shut up about not liking twilight. Don't play the vamps based on them. Thing is, lots of the GIRLS do like them. I'm in UT, the center of the twiligh vortex. Aside from being "sparkly" the rest of the idea about where they came from and their powers is quite unique and very cool. If you haven't read the books, then you wouldn't understand. Every mortal has a strong personal trait...when turned into a vampire of this lineage, that power is unlocked. These vampires are immune to sunlight, but not fire. And they're painfully obvious in sunlight. -100% stealth in the sun. Can have half vampire children...very rare.
What other kinds? That are a million to choose from.
Vampire hunters factions. - again, a million archetypes here: The religious right, anti demon, buffy vampire slayer, crusading paladin types.
neutral factions - willing to work with "good vampires' or whatever.
Werewolves - a MUST in a vampire mmo storyline.
Wizards and witches - also an integral part. where magic like vampires exists....so does magic of this type...at least in most vampire lore.
A "vampire MMO" and lore would be fun to make...writing the differente lores to work together would take effort, but creative people enjoy challenges of this type. I'd do it.
NEW IDEAS for DANA to write about?
Advanced physics in MMOs. Is there one out there? even the in development Star Wars new republic MMO still has clunky "MMO" physics.
How about, fast action (think LotR:The Return of the king) hack and slash + MMORPG. Does this exist anywhere? EVERY MMO thinks that you have to fight for 30 minutes per enemy. YUCK. Are there any fast action MMORPG's out there?
SciFi MMORPGS where you get to live in space, and actually see the inside of your ship + FPS style action. Is there one out there? Think, RoboTech or any one of those. SO much potential for personalized living space without cluttering precious landscape. So much capability for multiple game styles in one game. Flight Sim + FPS + RPG + Minigames, etc. Is there an MMO like this?
Currently not playing any MMOrpg -- Lvl 80 paladin WoW
Yes, but in Brian Lumley's setting, the government run psychic special branch, the alternate earth (Starside/sunside). Basically all of the necroscope series and vampire wars rolled into one massive online pw.
Pulp horror at its best, perfect!
Edit: The female vamp's (called wamphyri) in these books are possibly the most aggressive creatures ever fictionallized. (The epitome of all sexually aggressive women in positions of power :P)
Yes Vampire the Masquerade would make a great MMO. 13 different clans and then on top of that you have different groups fighting each other and then the vampire hunters as well, not to mention werewolves...... it could work. I would play it if it was done well.
Originally posted by Xasapis
CCP, the producers of EVE, have bought and are for quite some time now the owners of White Wolf, the makers of the world of darkness line of tabletop RPGs.
Okey ! Somehow we know that something is cooking up. It can be a Very good base mmo.
World of darkness could be as well very cool game.!! Just thinking of it makes me smile.
Here is my thought !!?
-The game must have un obvious direction. What I mean by that is that
I don`t want to see enemy`s holding hands. That whats flop AoC.
It must be Good vs Bad ! The game should have a based experience level. But on a simulator!
I want my Avatar learn Kung-fu , I go to a secret Kung-fu school. In time my avater becume a kung-fu master.
He got all the time! Why ? Because his a freaking Vampire.!! The game should not be like other mmo.
The Game should not concentrate at level up fast like Wow. Then its only MMO and not RPG.
It should have society, clan vs clan. Player should know his boundary. But Signs on the streets etc.
Offcourse you should level up out side your society but not in term killing 15 ugly spiders and get xp.
When you out doing youre thing it should have a purpose. That makes the game stimulating.
"I have so much to say but I`m a bit worry that I exaggerate" But I do hope people understand what I just wrote.
(( I`D RATHER DIE WITH A STRAIGHT BACK THAN A BOW TO YOU AND LIVE ))^^^^^>
I can see your concern, but I beg to differ on one small point. There is a lot of gaps in the lore that an MMO could fill nicely.
There is little if any exploration of the war that exterminated all of the vampires except for Kain, up until the assaination of Ariel and cumbling of the pillars.. LoK 1, I think touched on it (Not sure, haven't played it in quite some time), but not much. In Soul Reaver 2, I think it was, when Raziel fights himself, it was drawing to a close.
Where was the war? Where were the Hilden in all of this? Who did all the killing? Or even better, go to the time period revealed in the temples in SR2 on the paintings on the wall, where the Soul Reaver was eventually forged. Before the vampires defeated the Hilden.. Surely humans must have existed in that time period, but it never explicitly says they did.
While I agree, using characters directly derived from the canon might have issues, but certainly, in all of Nosgoth, from the time of the war between the Hilden and the Vampires, or the Vampires and the Sarafan, there must have been a lot of nameless soldiers in that war.
Wanting Kain and Raziel voiceovers? That's my selfish part. They have awesome voices behind them that I'd make just about any excuse to hear again.
True, but if I'm going to play a LoK game then I'd like it to be involved with the actual games that made me a fan of the series in the first place. I mean sure, in every setting there are these periods of history and important events which are left unexplored, entire eras even in LoK, but playing during those times which are so removed from the events of LoK games would be like playing in a game that has very loose connections with the source material... even name-only if pushed to extreme.
---
But putting that aside, I could see myself supporting True Blood-ish MMO which is, as someone has already pointed, out, somewhat WoD-lite with a lifted Masquerade. Actual WoD seems like a HUGE undertaking when it comes to actual MMO game, especially if they eventually plan to include every Sup out there (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, etc) and even though it's CCP that's making it I still remain skeptical.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
In my experience of trying to get women to play video games, it is never the content that is the issue(well most of the time anyway) but rather their lack of ability when it comes to hand/eye coordination. Basically they can't control the character well enough to get into the game and they don't want to take the time to learn how.
Not saying all women are this way, as I've raided with women in WoW. But OTHER women, those who don't play video games, at least from what I've witnessed, it always boils down to the controls.
Will a vampire mmo break this? IMO only if they make learning the controls like learning how to put make-up on. It has to appeal to how they learn.
- insert long irrelevant space consuming post here -
I realize Vlad was not a nice dude (heck, my education is in European History), but that was... a joke. After 533 years, I think it's OK to poke fun at him.
Originally posted by Silvermink
- ditto here lol -
Vlad the Impaler. A generally terrible dude and arguably (although as others have said, there are dissenting views) the basis for Bram Stoker's Dracula. Who is, if you follow my attempt at humor's logic train, the reason we have so much modern vampire fiction, which includes Twilight.
Seriously, everyone gets upset at my history joke and no one bats an eye at my hockey joke on Tuesday? :P
Okies Dana I'm sorry. I blame dark chocolate covered espresso beans for my brief lapse of humor.
Hockey joke? Where! Where! lol
In accordance with the prophecy, you will finish reading this sentence right now!
In my experience of trying to get women to play video games, it is never the content that is the issue(well most of the time anyway) but rather their lack of ability when it comes to hand/eye coordination. Basically they can't control the character well enough to get into the game and they don't want to take the time to learn how. Not saying all women are this way, as I've raided with women in WoW. But OTHER women, those who don't play video games, at least from what I've witnessed, it always boils down to the controls. Will a vampire mmo break this? IMO only if they make learning the controls like learning how to put make-up on. It has to appeal to how they learn.
You are a great big idiot! A great big Sexist Idiot! Of course a woman playing for the first time will have no coordination!
As a girl gamer, I can tell you what really pisses us off about RPGs and turns us away is how girls are portrayed, not the games itself. Take the zombie games for example or the game I am currently playing called Phoenix Dynasty. The girls are always shown wearing slutty, impractical outfits that expose a lot of skin and protects very little while the guys are always shown in cool armor and stylish hunting gear.
Since only girls play the girl characters and I'm certainly not a lesbian, why would I want to spend several hours staring at the barley covered ass of another girl? (in ref to first person pov) Also there is the personality of the story line RPG characters. The girl is always either weak or needs to be rescued. Always! Take Final Fantasy for example. Even in the one game where the main character was a girl, she had to be rescued several times! (I'm talking about FFVI, not including X-2 or the more recent one, whatever it's number is)
If sexy girls sell so well then why don't the guys use only the girl characters and leave the dudes to us? -_-#
In accordance with the prophecy, you will finish reading this sentence right now!
I have one. "Why haven't they..." First topic? Why haven't they fired you as a writer yet? You're by far the worst addition to MMORPG.com and even though I will probably be banned for that statement, I stand by it. A vampire MMO? Really!? REALLY!? It's bad enough that I have to deal with my 12-14 year old students convinced that vampires are real because of garbage like Twilight, Vampire Diaries, True Blood, etc. It's ok to have fantasies but to feed this continual delusion of vampiric beings just to profit off the insanity of youth is another thing. This industry does not crave a new audience, it craves a unique world that does not promise everything and fail to deliver on anything. The MMO community has burned itself out on investing time, fandom, money, and patience into developers that only seek to get World of Warcraft-like returns off something with minimal work on their part. There is an audience for vampires but the MMO community is not that audience. If we were, a developer would have already made such a game. Perhaps I will eat some crow when the new Whitewolf MMO comes out but until then, I think it will be an abysmal failure. I know MMO players good sir, and MMO players are not teenage girls getting goofy romantic over the idea of someone biting their neck in the dead of night.
I have to defend Dana here. He is my favorite writer on this site by far. You sir should be banned from this site since you are apparently unable or unwilling to treat others with respect. If you don't like vampire fantasy settings, thats fine, but there are a lot of us who do.
Furthermore, this site is for discussing games and game content. Its bad enough that we have hundreds of trolls everywhere bad-mouthing every game in existence. We don't need people making personal attacks in addition.
- insert long irrelevant space consuming post here -
I realize Vlad was not a nice dude (heck, my education is in European History), but that was... a joke. After 533 years, I think it's OK to poke fun at him.
Originally posted by Silvermink
- ditto here lol -
Vlad the Impaler. A generally terrible dude and arguably (although as others have said, there are dissenting views) the basis for Bram Stoker's Dracula. Who is, if you follow my attempt at humor's logic train, the reason we have so much modern vampire fiction, which includes Twilight.
Seriously, everyone gets upset at my history joke and no one bats an eye at my hockey joke on Tuesday? :P
Okies Dana I'm sorry. I blame dark chocolate covered espresso beans for my brief lapse of humor.
ROFL, this could totally be done with humor and fun.
Select your vampire origins:
"Sparkly but secretive, with a special gift"
"Coven-centric Hunter"
"Coven-centric Weapon Designer"
"Ancient, human killers"
"Flamboyant solo w/Henchmen"
"Full Wolf Xform"
"Man/Wolf (Lycan)"
etc... this could be done with humor and fun IMO. This way, everyone could play their best idea of a vamp, but with limits based on their selection, and of course pros and cons to each type.
True, but if I'm going to play a LoK game then I'd like it to be involved with the actual games that made me a fan of the series in the first place. I mean sure, in every setting there are these periods of history and important events which are left unexplored, entire eras even in LoK, but playing during those times which are so removed from the events of LoK games would be like playing in a game that has very loose connections with the source material... even name-only if pushed to extreme.
Again, I can understand that, but there's lots of elements that tie back to the game that would feel like you're still in that same world, would allow for an MMO, and still not not break canon.
In the time before the Hilden where defeated, you can still involve some characters from canon, such as Yanos and Vorador (Human before becoming a vampire). All before the time of the Soul Reaver was forged.
In the time of the Sarafan war, Kain is alive and well, as are all characters, except Raziel and all of Kain's other lieutenants would still be humans under the command of Moebius. Lots of battles between those two factions, and if I'm not mistaken, In Legacy of Kain 2: Blood Omen, the Saraphan, Hilden, and Vampires were all in the same time period, so 3 factions could be an option.
IF (And that's a big "If") the developers could keep the characters actions and personalities strictly to as they are in the cannon (Perhaps major faction leaders you rarely interact with, like Thrall/Jania in WoW), the battles could go on between them, without the canon ever really being infringed upon..
Of course, this is all a pipe dream.. Don't think the writer of the LoK series even works at Eidos anymore. She left some time ago..
I always thought the Legacy of Kain series could be made into an MMO. There was like 12 vamp clans (hunters also) before Raziel came back. You could even have "prototype" soul reavers as something similar to a Jedi class.
I have heard of a Twilight MMO has been shopped around, but me and my Comp fund(A.K.A. change filling jar.) are waiting for WoDo
I'd play anything even remotely to do with the LoK series. I loved those games.
I agree. That would be frickin' awesome. There is also a LOT of lore in the LoK universe to build on. Seems like the perfect IP for a game like that.
I'm telling you Twilight is not a good idea. As I said earlier, when a 100+ old man goes out with a 15 year old girl. It's not an OK vampire world...
Btw, some of you might have missed the major Vampire the Masquerade Reset.. no?
White Wolf published a completely new vampire story and actually... a completely new World of Darkness story. It's not as good and I sometimes fear for CCP. They won't be using Masquerade or any other old settings.
You know, a bit like how D&D online used a realm that no one really cared about lol.
That's making EVE not in the New Eden space or WOW on Bungie island instead of Azeroth.
CO showed us instanced worlds (Crisis zones) what would be cool is if "evil" vampires had to live in their "dark" shard created by turning the daughter and "good vampires" were in the "light shard" same world. People with the same quest chain but their "seperate"
Comments
I would love to see a good vampire MMO, but expect we'd probably get some version of "Twilight" , "Buffy", or "Lost Boys" instead, where the vampires are "kewl doodz" teenagers with superpowers.
Would be nice to see a vampire MMO in the "vein" of "Dark Shadows" or the old Hammer films. After all, if vampires can be centuries old, would they not act more mature and cultured, and not zip around on skate boards and posing as"kewl doodz"?
Maybe the answer would be "Mature" servers that cost an extra $8 or so per month. Would separate the "Buffy's" from the "Barnabas's". (And this tactic could be the answer to community problems in any MMO; I'd pay extra to play on a mature server.)
At this point I think all of us are ready for something different than a typical fantasy MMO. I like your vampire idea, especially the moral choices and alternate solution to problem aspect. I hope the World of Darkness MMO turns out like this!
My software development blog:
http://www.raywenderlich.com
Don't know if it's been said:
Legacy of Kain
*Amazing, rich lore (with hopefully, equally well written dialog)
*The battle between the Vampires, The Hilden, and Saraphan is prime material for a DAoC-ish Trifecta
* Kain and Raziel voice overs please!
This actually has more potential material than WoW did with the Warcraft games before it, if you think about it.
Ironically, despite me actually being a HUGE LoK fan, I'm strictly against it being made into an MMO. Why? Mainly because previous games, although they have given us quite an insight into the world of Nosgohth, it's factions and other things, have remained very story centered and have made use of few characters, but have in exchange explored these characters to unbelievable details.
That's the "problem" with LoK, at least when it comes down to exploring the idea of turning it into an MMO - it's too focused on already existing characters and their stories (and... you know, it deals with time travel and you don't mess with that) aka. it's basically impossible to introduce some random characters (our PCs, that is) and have them actually matter something or contribute anything sensible and useful. Perhaps if the game was situated during some alternative timeframe (for example, in the early days of Kain's rule or something), maybe.
Unless Ann Rice or Whitewolf releases their creator rights... Good luck on making something original involving vampires. Whitewolf and Ann Rice covered everything and in details.
Twilight?
Sorry, that story is basicaly a laugh at human standards. Think about it... an OLD 100+ man with a 16 year old girl. I'm sorry but are we saying that if a 90 year old guy somehow found a way to look young and cute, he could go around and date teenagers? Is that what we're saying? Last i've checked, a granpa with a young girl is wrong... I guess we are blinded by looks.
Also the fact that these vampires don't die by good old sunlight?
True Blood – Well, True blood is basicaly what Vampire the Masquerade is but once the masquerade is lifted lol. Bill is a good Ventrue that once in a while gets a visit of fellow Brujah lol…Though, don’t get me wrong, it’s a great show and I’m glad they inspired themselve from Whitewolf or Ann Rice.
The issue though is that game wise, it’s hard not to copy world of darkness. It’s basicaly the best structure out there and since Whitewolf covers pretty much EVERYTHING, it’s hard to come up with something original now our days. I've played table top and did many live games when I was much younger and got to play through these books, mages, werewolves, vampires...
Legacy of Kain is pretty original though and it could certainly do well as an MMO. Then again, girls would be vampires and guys would all take soul reavers lol...
As for the female audience well you have to remember that some of the early vampire stories were all about the beauty and the beast. Granny loved it, mom loved it and now 16 year old emo/goth teen is loving it. From the get go, Vampire stories were made to appeal both sex.
Vampires are also the elves of world of darkness lol… seriously. The pretty people.
You are? Why?
The original Vampire the Masquerade lent itself very well to the kind of play your talking about. In fact I always the the Pen and Paper system lent itself better to RP than G. The whole point of the Clans in VTM was that it accomodating all of the Vampire archtypes in a single product. You had the Venture- faggy Anne-Rice types, and the Toreador who are even worse. And then you have the Max Schrek type Nosferatu, the animalisti Gangrel, and the Brujah who like yelling and breaking stuff... and at that's without even making the Sabbat clans playable. My point is within World of Darkness, you can do Twilight (well, except for the Sparkling) and Interview with a Vampire or just as easily 30 Days of Night and From Dusk till Dawn.
WoD is the PERFACT IP for the kind of game your describing, and CCP didn't licence it... they fricken OWN it.
The reason you failed to avoid "CCP is already making World of Darkness" comments is because you simply can't have this conversation without them.
Of frickin course Vampire MMOs are a valid discusssion, but World of Darkness is every bit as important a part of Vampire pop culture as Twilight is and you can't throw out the fact that a popular MMO developer FRICKEN MERGED with the company that created World of Darkness and accept to have a valid conversation about Vampire MMOs.
Active: WoW
Semi-retired: STO
Fully retired: UO, EQ, AC, SWG, FFXI, DDO:EU, PoTBS, AoC, EvE
Tried: EQ2, Tabula Rasa, Auto-Assault, Isteria, LotRO, Wizard 101
Looking forward to: Star Citizen
I can see your concern, but I beg to differ on one small point. There is a lot of gaps in the lore that an MMO could fill nicely.
There is little if any exploration of the war that exterminated all of the vampires except for Kain, up until the assaination of Ariel and cumbling of the pillars.. LoK 1, I think touched on it (Not sure, haven't played it in quite some time), but not much. In Soul Reaver 2, I think it was, when Raziel fights himself, it was drawing to a close.
Where was the war? Where were the Hilden in all of this? Who did all the killing? Or even better, go to the time period revealed in the temples in SR2 on the paintings on the wall, where the Soul Reaver was eventually forged. Before the vampires defeated the Hilden.. Surely humans must have existed in that time period, but it never explicitly says they did.
While I agree, using characters directly derived from the canon might have issues, but certainly, in all of Nosgoth, from the time of the war between the Hilden and the Vampires, or the Vampires and the Sarafan, there must have been a lot of nameless soldiers in that war.
Wanting Kain and Raziel voiceovers? That's my selfish part. They have awesome voices behind them that I'd make just about any excuse to hear again.
Joymax, the Korean MMO company that has been dominating the VERY Profitable FtP with Cash Shop world with it's SilkRoad Online game has also had a Vampire MMO out for over 3 years, Darkeden. It is VERY buggy, has a small fanbase that tolerates the bugginess and evidently spends enough in Joymax's cash shop to keep the servers open. Read the game forums.... ROFLMAO.
I agree with alot of the posts here, I mostly agree with
"I would love to see a good vampire MMO, but expect we'd probably get some version of "Twilight" , "Buffy", or "Lost Boys" instead, where the vampires are "kewl doodz" teenagers with superpowers.
Would be nice to see a vampire MMO in the "vein" of "Dark Shadows" or the old Hammer films. After all, if vampires can be centuries old, would they not act more mature and cultured, and not zip around on skate boards and posing as"kewl doodz"?
Maybe the answer would be "Mature" servers that cost an extra $8 or so per month. Would separate the "Buffy's" from the "Barnabas's". (And this tactic could be the answer to community problems in any MMO; I'd pay extra to play on a mature server.)"
But a MMO of this type will not work because.
1) THERE WILL NOT BE ANY OPEN PVP. No MMO todate has had a successful open world pvp system with a large following.
2) SEX SELLS. The hole idea behind a good Vampire movies is because of blood and sex scenes. This game will need to be adults only to handle the R rating it will need to be successful. This will decrease your market by a large number and making of it will be a hard to sell to the people with money.
3) VAMPIRES NEED TO SLEEP. In all the MMOs that I have played, you don't need to sleep, stop, rest, or just stay inside for two threds of the day. If you make a Vampire MMO with Human that Hunt VAMPIRES you will need to make your Vampires stop moving around diring the day light hours.
4) DEATH. What will you do to Vampires and or Humans to make them fill like diing is bad?
5) FEEDING. How do you cover that, what do you do to make a player NEED TO FEED on blood?
But if the devs can cover these points then thay have the makings of a good MMO.
..its a guideline, not a rule, as players we must remember: Its a Game.
You are? Why?
The original Vampire the Masquerade lent itself very well to the kind of play your talking about. In fact I always the the Pen and Paper system lent itself better to RP than G. The whole point of the Clans in VTM was that it accomodating all of the Vampire archtypes in a single product. You had the Venture- faggy Anne-Rice types, and the Toreador who are even worse. And then you have the Max Schrek type Nosferatu, the animalisti Gangrel, and the Brujah who like yelling and breaking stuff... and at that's without even making the Sabbat clans playable. My point is within World of Darkness, you can do Twilight (well, except for the Sparkling) and Interview with a Vampire or just as easily 30 Days of Night and From Dusk till Dawn.
WoD is the PERFACT IP for the kind of game your describing, and CCP didn't licence it... they fricken OWN it.
The reason you failed to avoid "CCP is already making World of Darkness" comments is because you simply can't have this conversation without them.
Of frickin course Vampire MMOs are a valid discusssion, but World of Darkness is every bit as important a part of Vampire pop culture as Twilight is and you can't throw out the fact that a popular MMO developer FRICKEN MERGED with the company that created World of Darkness and accept to have a valid conversation about Vampire MMOs.
Oh, sorry, I may not have been clear. Of course WoD is a valid discussion. I meant posts saying "you suck, you forgot WoD," which I failed to avoid, despite acknowledging it. I didn't forget WoD, but I don't think the fact that someone is doing that IP invalidates any debate about a vampire MMO as some others have posted.
The point of my article was larger than "what will WoD be" and that's the debate I tried to start. WoD is a part of it, no doubt, but there is far more to it than just one game.
As to WoD being what I describe, maybe they will, but as I said, I doubt it (specifically the female oriented, dual story line stuff).
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
If a dev. would like my money, they need to make it P2P game.
..its a guideline, not a rule, as players we must remember: Its a Game.
I know you're trying to troll, but honestly, I agree. This was pretty close to the bottom of my "why not" barrel for now
...I'm likely going to adopt a new premise in the coming weeks.
Anyone got any suggestions?
a million ideas how to make whats already out there better. When I first conceived of the idea of MMORPG back in 1994, while playing muds and playing DnD, I imagined something vastly different than WoW.
VAMPIRE MMO -
To capture Male + Female, you'd need to offer different types of vampires...include their origins as part of the story.
1)Ann Rice - Vampires are immortal, tied by bloodline. If the parent burns, then child burns. Origin is by demonic possession of the original, then passed down through Rice's turning ceremony. They have their unique weeknesses. Vampires are sterile.
2)Twilight - first off, shut up about not liking twilight. Don't play the vamps based on them. Thing is, lots of the GIRLS do like them. I'm in UT, the center of the twiligh vortex. Aside from being "sparkly" the rest of the idea about where they came from and their powers is quite unique and very cool. If you haven't read the books, then you wouldn't understand. Every mortal has a strong personal trait...when turned into a vampire of this lineage, that power is unlocked. These vampires are immune to sunlight, but not fire. And they're painfully obvious in sunlight. -100% stealth in the sun. Can have half vampire children...very rare.
What other kinds? That are a million to choose from.
Vampire hunters factions. - again, a million archetypes here: The religious right, anti demon, buffy vampire slayer, crusading paladin types.
neutral factions - willing to work with "good vampires' or whatever.
Werewolves - a MUST in a vampire mmo storyline.
Wizards and witches - also an integral part. where magic like vampires exists....so does magic of this type...at least in most vampire lore.
A "vampire MMO" and lore would be fun to make...writing the differente lores to work together would take effort, but creative people enjoy challenges of this type. I'd do it.
NEW IDEAS for DANA to write about?
Advanced physics in MMOs. Is there one out there? even the in development Star Wars new republic MMO still has clunky "MMO" physics.
How about, fast action (think LotR:The Return of the king) hack and slash + MMORPG. Does this exist anywhere? EVERY MMO thinks that you have to fight for 30 minutes per enemy. YUCK. Are there any fast action MMORPG's out there?
SciFi MMORPGS where you get to live in space, and actually see the inside of your ship + FPS style action. Is there one out there? Think, RoboTech or any one of those. SO much potential for personalized living space without cluttering precious landscape. So much capability for multiple game styles in one game. Flight Sim + FPS + RPG + Minigames, etc. Is there an MMO like this?
Currently not playing any MMOrpg --
Lvl 80 paladin WoW
Yes, but in Brian Lumley's setting, the government run psychic special branch, the alternate earth (Starside/sunside). Basically all of the necroscope series and vampire wars rolled into one massive online pw.
Pulp horror at its best, perfect!
Edit: The female vamp's (called wamphyri) in these books are possibly the most aggressive creatures ever fictionallized. (The epitome of all sexually aggressive women in positions of power :P)
Originally posted by Tentaro
Yes Vampire the Masquerade would make a great MMO. 13 different clans and then on top of that you have different groups fighting each other and then the vampire hunters as well, not to mention werewolves...... it could work. I would play it if it was done well.
Originally posted by Xasapis
CCP, the producers of EVE, have bought and are for quite some time now the owners of White Wolf, the makers of the world of darkness line of tabletop RPGs.
Okey ! Somehow we know that something is cooking up. It can be a Very good base mmo.
World of darkness could be as well very cool game.!! Just thinking of it makes me smile.
Here is my thought !!?
-The game must have un obvious direction. What I mean by that is that
I don`t want to see enemy`s holding hands. That whats flop AoC.
It must be Good vs Bad ! The game should have a based experience level. But on a simulator!
I want my Avatar learn Kung-fu , I go to a secret Kung-fu school. In time my avater becume a kung-fu master.
He got all the time! Why ? Because his a freaking Vampire.!! The game should not be like other mmo.
The Game should not concentrate at level up fast like Wow. Then its only MMO and not RPG.
It should have society, clan vs clan. Player should know his boundary. But Signs on the streets etc.
Offcourse you should level up out side your society but not in term killing 15 ugly spiders and get xp.
When you out doing youre thing it should have a purpose. That makes the game stimulating.
"I have so much to say but I`m a bit worry that I exaggerate" But I do hope people understand what I just wrote.
(( I`D RATHER DIE WITH A STRAIGHT BACK THAN A BOW TO YOU AND LIVE ))^^^^^>
True, but if I'm going to play a LoK game then I'd like it to be involved with the actual games that made me a fan of the series in the first place. I mean sure, in every setting there are these periods of history and important events which are left unexplored, entire eras even in LoK, but playing during those times which are so removed from the events of LoK games would be like playing in a game that has very loose connections with the source material... even name-only if pushed to extreme.
---
But putting that aside, I could see myself supporting True Blood-ish MMO which is, as someone has already pointed, out, somewhat WoD-lite with a lifted Masquerade. Actual WoD seems like a HUGE undertaking when it comes to actual MMO game, especially if they eventually plan to include every Sup out there (Vampire, Werewolf, Mage, etc) and even though it's CCP that's making it I still remain skeptical.
In my experience of trying to get women to play video games, it is never the content that is the issue(well most of the time anyway) but rather their lack of ability when it comes to hand/eye coordination. Basically they can't control the character well enough to get into the game and they don't want to take the time to learn how.
Not saying all women are this way, as I've raided with women in WoW. But OTHER women, those who don't play video games, at least from what I've witnessed, it always boils down to the controls.
Will a vampire mmo break this? IMO only if they make learning the controls like learning how to put make-up on. It has to appeal to how they learn.
I realize Vlad was not a nice dude (heck, my education is in European History), but that was... a joke. After 533 years, I think it's OK to poke fun at him.
Vlad the Impaler. A generally terrible dude and arguably (although as others have said, there are dissenting views) the basis for Bram Stoker's Dracula. Who is, if you follow my attempt at humor's logic train, the reason we have so much modern vampire fiction, which includes Twilight.
Seriously, everyone gets upset at my history joke and no one bats an eye at my hockey joke on Tuesday? :P
Okies Dana I'm sorry. I blame dark chocolate covered espresso beans for my brief lapse of humor.
Hockey joke? Where! Where! lol
In accordance with the prophecy, you will finish reading this sentence right now!
You are a great big idiot! A great big Sexist Idiot! Of course a woman playing for the first time will have no coordination!
As a girl gamer, I can tell you what really pisses us off about RPGs and turns us away is how girls are portrayed, not the games itself. Take the zombie games for example or the game I am currently playing called Phoenix Dynasty. The girls are always shown wearing slutty, impractical outfits that expose a lot of skin and protects very little while the guys are always shown in cool armor and stylish hunting gear.
Since only girls play the girl characters and I'm certainly not a lesbian, why would I want to spend several hours staring at the barley covered ass of another girl? (in ref to first person pov) Also there is the personality of the story line RPG characters. The girl is always either weak or needs to be rescued. Always! Take Final Fantasy for example. Even in the one game where the main character was a girl, she had to be rescued several times! (I'm talking about FFVI, not including X-2 or the more recent one, whatever it's number is)
If sexy girls sell so well then why don't the guys use only the girl characters and leave the dudes to us? -_-#
In accordance with the prophecy, you will finish reading this sentence right now!
I have to defend Dana here. He is my favorite writer on this site by far. You sir should be banned from this site since you are apparently unable or unwilling to treat others with respect. If you don't like vampire fantasy settings, thats fine, but there are a lot of us who do.
Furthermore, this site is for discussing games and game content. Its bad enough that we have hundreds of trolls everywhere bad-mouthing every game in existence. We don't need people making personal attacks in addition.
Do us all a favor and GTFO.
I realize Vlad was not a nice dude (heck, my education is in European History), but that was... a joke. After 533 years, I think it's OK to poke fun at him.
Vlad the Impaler. A generally terrible dude and arguably (although as others have said, there are dissenting views) the basis for Bram Stoker's Dracula. Who is, if you follow my attempt at humor's logic train, the reason we have so much modern vampire fiction, which includes Twilight.
Seriously, everyone gets upset at my history joke and no one bats an eye at my hockey joke on Tuesday? :P
Okies Dana I'm sorry. I blame dark chocolate covered espresso beans for my brief lapse of humor.
Hockey joke? Where! Where! lol
The 5 MMO remakes
In the AC entry...
Dana Massey
Formerly of MMORPG.com
Currently Lead Designer for Bit Trap Studios
ROFL, this could totally be done with humor and fun.
Select your vampire origins:
"Sparkly but secretive, with a special gift"
"Coven-centric Hunter"
"Coven-centric Weapon Designer"
"Ancient, human killers"
"Flamboyant solo w/Henchmen"
"Full Wolf Xform"
"Man/Wolf (Lycan)"
etc... this could be done with humor and fun IMO. This way, everyone could play their best idea of a vamp, but with limits based on their selection, and of course pros and cons to each type.
so...
Again, I can understand that, but there's lots of elements that tie back to the game that would feel like you're still in that same world, would allow for an MMO, and still not not break canon.
In the time before the Hilden where defeated, you can still involve some characters from canon, such as Yanos and Vorador (Human before becoming a vampire). All before the time of the Soul Reaver was forged.
In the time of the Sarafan war, Kain is alive and well, as are all characters, except Raziel and all of Kain's other lieutenants would still be humans under the command of Moebius. Lots of battles between those two factions, and if I'm not mistaken, In Legacy of Kain 2: Blood Omen, the Saraphan, Hilden, and Vampires were all in the same time period, so 3 factions could be an option.
IF (And that's a big "If") the developers could keep the characters actions and personalities strictly to as they are in the cannon (Perhaps major faction leaders you rarely interact with, like Thrall/Jania in WoW), the battles could go on between them, without the canon ever really being infringed upon..
Of course, this is all a pipe dream.. Don't think the writer of the LoK series even works at Eidos anymore. She left some time ago..
Ah well. Good discussion.
I'd play anything even remotely to do with the LoK series. I loved those games.
I agree. That would be frickin' awesome. There is also a LOT of lore in the LoK universe to build on. Seems like the perfect IP for a game like that.
I'm telling you Twilight is not a good idea. As I said earlier, when a 100+ old man goes out with a 15 year old girl. It's not an OK vampire world...
Btw, some of you might have missed the major Vampire the Masquerade Reset.. no?
White Wolf published a completely new vampire story and actually... a completely new World of Darkness story. It's not as good and I sometimes fear for CCP. They won't be using Masquerade or any other old settings.
You know, a bit like how D&D online used a realm that no one really cared about lol.
That's making EVE not in the New Eden space or WOW on Bungie island instead of Azeroth.
CO showed us instanced worlds (Crisis zones) what would be cool is if "evil" vampires had to live in their "dark" shard created by turning the daughter and "good vampires" were in the "light shard" same world. People with the same quest chain but their "seperate"