When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there. Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game.
Fly cheaper ships. I can make enough money in a couple hours of mission running to supply myself with enough frigates/cruisers to last a week of PvP. With insurance the only thing you actually are spending money on is mods.
That is most of the new players problem. They try to PvP with that shiny new battleship that they spent the last week saving up money for, and naturally when they lose it they get discouraged. Instead they should be sticking to frigates, cruisers, destroyers, and interceptors, which are all incredibly cheap and easy to replace. Hell, most corps will supply you with T1 frigs and Cruisers for free, as long as your supporting Corp OPS.
There is a reason that the first piece of advice every new player gets in PvP is to fly what you can afford to lose. The cool thing about this game is that you are still incredibly useful to your fleet flying a frigate. The same can't be said of other games where not having the best "gear" basically makes you a liability.
I do Love Eves looks, makes you feel like your really out there, but the skill system is just to long for peeps like me who have played the game for years, 3.5 months for a skill is no fun grrr
lol the scary part is that you actually believe the bullshit your typing. Everyone in EVE pvps... if its either the market or living in more dangerous parts of eve. You're either a troll or you are just a complete idiot who thinks he knows everything .... which you dont. And if you dont like the game then leave it and quit bitching. Who has the gun to your head forcing you to play eve?
Ok, I'll break it down to a much simpler form so you can understand.
Eve is not built around PvP COMBAT, WW2 Online is. Most people in Eve do NOT partake in Eve's rather pathetic PvP COMBAT. Eve's own numbers show this.
I second this. From what I saw of Eve PvP it is either about ganking or warping away. People are so afraid to die, and understandibly so, so the moment they see something resembling a fair fight they try to get away.
Eves PvP combat is constipated, at best, and completely non existant as worst.
Sigh, so much BS, so little time. Been a part of faction wars? Red vs Blue? Fought to the death to save your stations in 0.0? Been part of the empire Merc wars?
I have, and despite definitely being a carebear by nature, I have most certainly spent some time PVPing as it were.
But it is true, in EVE PVP, winning is the most important thing, its what gives the game meaning for those who play it. You fail to understand the mechanic but no reason to keep spewing your crap here.
At any given moment you can set your map overview to show pods killed in the last 24 hours and you will find dozens of systems with sometimes hundreds of pod kills.
Yeah right, no one is pvping.......
Eve is most certainly a social game, and what we do has real meaning in almost every aspect. '
The butterfly effect is more real in EVE than any other MMO out there.
Ofcourse winning is the most important thing but that does not mean that the loser should lose HOURS of gaming time for one PvP death. That has nothing to do with mechanics or whatever, it is possibly to have more lenient death penalties and still maintain the crafting mechanics of the game. Things does not need to be black and white (either no penalty or extreme penalty) you know...
As for PvPing, as was mentioned, there is alot of ganking going on. Meaning gatecampers who kill people gating in/out and hence all the pod kills. If that for you is the definition of PvPing then all the power to you. For me it is not.
But sure, there are 0.0 wars as well but I would say that is not as common as people would want you to believe.
When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there. Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game. I predict that once Star Trek Online is released, people will be leaving this game in droves.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there. Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game. I predict that once Star Trek Online is released, people will be leaving this game in droves.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there. Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game. I predict that once Star Trek Online is released, people will be leaving this game in droves.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch. Specially since hardcore death penalties is for a niche audience.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there. Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game. I predict that once Star Trek Online is released, people will be leaving this game in droves.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
It isnt the only spaceship mmo just the only spaceship mmo sandbox and STO wont be a sandbox so it doesnt matter.
It isnt the only spaceship mmo just the only spaceship mmo sandbox and STO wont be a sandbox so it doesnt matter.
What other spaceship MMORPG is there out there?
Observe that there is a huge difference between sci-fi MMORTS or space strategy games and MMORPG where you control only one entity.
Jumpgate.... and its funny how you only mention STO without mention Jumpgate evolution and black prophecy. Like what was said earlier though, people play EVE because its spaceship sandbox mmo .... not just because its some spaceship mmo.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
It isnt the only spaceship mmo just the only spaceship mmo sandbox and STO wont be a sandbox so it doesnt matter.
What other spaceship MMORPG is there out there?
Observe that there is a huge difference between sci-fi MMORTS or space strategy games and MMORPG where you control only one entity.
Darkspace, Jumpgate, Vendetta Online... Ill add more once I have time during my work break today.
As for MMOrts and Space strategy go wouldnt it be fair to add those games also? Eve has elements of everything.
If you followed Eve for a long time like most of us you would have known only recently has Eve been considered a mmorpg by CCP the header used to call Eve an MMOG until CCP felt it would be new player friendly and avoid confusion if they changed it.
Now I would luike to ask you since you seem to be up on the Sto info. Is Sto a sandbox? Does Sto have the level of depth and complexity of Eve industry side? Industry, trade and shit like that is the reason many players stay in High sec not just missions.
What about exploring?
Seriously the fact that you could even put these games in the same thread is kind of funny.
There is also Vendetta Online which has a small following. To the person claiming he wants some middle ground between risk versus reward i say meh. Have you ever stopped to think a lot of people arnt always looking for their time in an mmo to be filled with happiness and instant gratification.
When you die for example in Aion or WAR, one click and you have respawned. It's fair to say these game follow this middle ground in risk versus reward because they have some sort of capturable area that has an effect on the game world but on a personal level what do you actual feel whilst you PVP in a game like this?
The first couple of times you might get a slight adrenaline rush when you kill someone or conquer a castle, fortress or whatever. But because the games dont actually make you FEEL any loss how joyous is the actual victory? You may have spent hours sweating and Cursing to get the victory but what do you have to show for it.
In Eve because you die you loose a ship and sometimes a pod as well you get a feeling of actual loss, this makes you angry or mad. What some people fail to realise is actually being unhappy in an mmo for a short period of time is GOOD for you. The death you just faced is recorded in the killmail and you can see the exact names of the players involved in blowing you to bits. And you know what?
When you get your chance for revenge and you end up being the person destroying there shps the victory is so much better. This is what draws people to EVE, it's what keeps people playing and it's what will continue to attract people to the game.
There is also Vendetta Online which has a small following. To the person claiming he wants some middle ground between risk versus reward i say meh. Have you ever stopped to think a lot of people arnt always looking for their time in an mmo to be filled with happiness and instant gratification. When you die for example in Aion or WAR, one click and you have respawned. It's fair to say these game follow this middle ground in risk versus reward because they have some sort of capturable area that has an effect on the game world but on a personal level what do you actual feel whilst you PVP in a game like this? The first couple of times you might get a slight adrenaline rush when you kill someone or conquer a castle, fortress or whatever. But because the games dont actually make you FEEL any loss how joyous is the actual victory? You may have spent hours sweating and Cursing to get the victory but what do you have to show for it. In Eve because you die you loose a ship and sometimes a pod as well you get a feeling of actual loss, this makes you angry or mad. What some people fail to realise is actually being unhappy in an mmo for a short period of time is GOOD for you. The death you just faced is recorded in the killmail and you can see the exact names of the players involved in blowing you to bits. And you know what? When you get your chance for revenge and you end up being the person destroying there shps the victory is so much better. This is what draws people to EVE, it's what keeps people playing and it's what will continue to attract people to the game.
I cannot explain to you the emotions I felt the first time my mission runner got caught in a gate camp in his new faction BS.
Seriously I expect my pvp character to die but losing a near 500+ million isk ship ruined my entire day. I still get pissed when I think about it.
I learned from it and believe me My pvp alt got some revenge. I never got the guy from the killmail but I got most of his corpies.
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it. However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there. Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers). When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up... I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same. Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either
People don't play Eve because "its a space MMO". Sure, there are a lot of people that try Eve because its a space MMO, but if they don't dig the nature of the beast they don't stick around.
STO is a themepark, and as a Cryptic game you can pretty much safely assume it will be fairly shallow. Not that cryptic games aren't fun, but they just aren't particularly deep. The type of person who sticks around and plays Eve doesn't do so just because its the only space MMO on the market (which isn't actually the case anyway). They do it because of the open ended gameplay, player run economy, deep crafting system, empire building, etc; STO, Jumpgate, and Black Prophecy have none of that.
I've never met a single player who disliked Eve's gameplay but stuck around just because "its a space MMO". It's not the type of game you can play unless you really seriously enjoy the game-play, I don't care how much of a spaceship nerd your are. I have met plenty of people that tried Eve because its a space MMO, and lost interest because of the type of gameplay. And those are the people that games like Jumpgate and STO are likely to attrack... but those aren't Eve players.
When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there. Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game. I predict that once Star Trek Online is released, people will be leaving this game in droves.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch. Specially since hardcore death penalties is for a niche audience.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
Well I'm sorry but your just wrong on two points.
First, you haven't spent the last 4 post talking about some make believe game but one very specific game, and that game is set to be a full on themepark! I'm sorry you didn't like my point but it still stands.
As for why people come to the game, EVE's sandbox devoted fan trace themselves back to certain games like UO (and others) and they look for the next big sandbox (darkfall, fallen earth), they are always on the lookout for the next big sandbox and so far it hasn't been made. STO will have less of an effect than LOTR and Warhammer and they had no effect at all. EVE is the most advanced Sandbox on the market (IMHO) and until a better one is released it will continue to grow and evolve.
Ive been playing EVE for 4 years now and when I die it takes me all of 5 minutes to be back in the fight most times. I have pretty much always been broke in game as well.
and THE only game with one server for their whole gaming community wich im happy to say is a big plus for any mmo i wish all game had only 1 big server a la eve but unless im wrong ,this is the only game that have the technology to be hable to cram all their player on 1 server
Not so. Eve wasn't the first to do "all one world", and even Eve's world is broken up into regions. Eve's economy is region based, not universe based, and every zone is a single instance seperate from the others outside of jumpgates and the like, with only chat channels and (inside regions) the economy being visible.
WW2 Online is a single "world", with no zones, that all the players reside in.
Every game has the technology to do what Eve does. Heck EQ1 was doing it way back when. Its just that most games can't get away with a simple routine to generate an entire zone. Since Eve's "zones" are practically empty except for stations, gates, and belts, it doesn't take much to generate a few thousand more. Eve suffers the same problems other games do when too many players enter one "zone" (Jita, anyone?). There's nothing technologically special about Eve. And in fact, its downtime every day says they didn't code it right in the first place. What other game gets away with having an hour of downtime every day?
As has been said before it is not instanced, it's zoned as not one system or region is a copy of one another. Besides i never saw more than two hundred people in a major town in EQ where as in the major hubs in EVE can handle at least eleven hundred without major lag happening.
Also tell me you have seen battles with more than say 150+ people in one part of a zone that can handle lag very well, so far i have yet to played a MMO that can handle that many, even WoW has major lag when they reach 100+ people in wintergrasp.
Now we're into semantics. Each "zone" is an instance of that zone. Sure, there's only one named "Jita", but its still an instance.
I battle in WW2 Online almost every night with battles that big (or bigger). No lag. And it isn't a "spreadsheet" type of battle either. Actually aiming, firing, etc.
Eve can handle 1100 in a zone because 1000 of them are idle or just chatting in a station.
No, not every zone is an instance of that zone ... the zones ( read : systems ) are all different, they all have a different moon, planet, station, jumpgate, ... layout. So while zones in EVE look alot more alike than in some other mmo's, they are still not instances. Each zone is persistent, there are no exact copies and people can go to every zone they like.
Why do we make such a big deal about it? Because we really don't want instances in EVE Online. We want to be able to meet everyone, shoot everyone, go anywhere we like. And we can, thats the point. You can't in for example WoW, because you can not enter someone's private instance.
But to make you happy, keep calling them instances, we will know you mean zones, okay?
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
The argument that EvE will be threatened when STO is released is the dumbest thing I ever heard. No scifi fan, I dont care how hardcore they are, will put up with EvE's "boring" combat because it is the only sci fi space game.
Most of the players play because of the harsh enviorment, complexity of the game, the economy, the pvp (both combat and non), and because of its sandbox.
I would see Darkfall more as a competitor then any other MMO.
The innovation that CCP has shown makes me wonder what will EVE bee in another 10 years.
While I was at the 2008 Fanfest, someone asked Hilmar Petursson, 'How far ahead does CCP think? Do you have a five year plan for EVE? A ten year plan?'
Hilmar was amused. 'Yes and yes. You might say we have a hundred year plan. As long as people keep playing, we'll keep working, EVE will keep evolving.'
Which pretty much sums up why I'm a shameless fanboy.
That and because I'm a science geek who gets a kick out of some of the obscure details in EVE's sci-fi—the redshifting and blueshifting you see in warp, for instance—great stuff. EVE does not intellectually insult the player. That is a rare virtue in this genre, I think.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Trying to bill Eve as a social game is like trying to say that WoW is a sophisticaed one. Once the new titles come out like the Old Republic, JGE, Star Trek Online etc... Eve will see an exodus perhaps not as large as some have mentioned but it will happen and for all the reasons previously mentioned. There have been dozens of threads on subjects similar to this one listing the issues that CCP has turned a blind eye to.
Trying to bill Eve as a social game is like trying to say that WoW is a sophisticaed one. Once the new titles come out like the Old Republic, JGE, Star Trek Online etc... Eve will see an exodus perhaps not as large as some have mentioned but it will happen and for all the reasons previously mentioned. There have been dozens of threads on subjects similar to this one listing the issues that CCP has turned a blind eye to.
Every MMO is social.
Those new games that you listed have nothing on Eve. Seriously what other developer is willing to release a spaceship mmo with rts combat and harsh death penalty with players all playing in one game universe?
The people that love Eve wont leave for ToR, JGE or STO its the players that play Eve trial and quit that will enjoy JGE and STO.
Also what issues have CCP turned a blind eye to? seriously imo CCP is damn near perfect atm. I would love to hear of these so called "issues".
Trying to bill Eve as a social game is like trying to say that WoW is a sophisticaed one. Once the new titles come out like the Old Republic, JGE, Star Trek Online etc... Eve will see an exodus perhaps not as large as some have mentioned but it will happen and for all the reasons previously mentioned. There have been dozens of threads on subjects similar to this one listing the issues that CCP has turned a blind eye to.
wanna bet on that? EVE wont go below 300k subscribers after 2010.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Comments
Fly cheaper ships. I can make enough money in a couple hours of mission running to supply myself with enough frigates/cruisers to last a week of PvP. With insurance the only thing you actually are spending money on is mods.
That is most of the new players problem. They try to PvP with that shiny new battleship that they spent the last week saving up money for, and naturally when they lose it they get discouraged. Instead they should be sticking to frigates, cruisers, destroyers, and interceptors, which are all incredibly cheap and easy to replace. Hell, most corps will supply you with T1 frigs and Cruisers for free, as long as your supporting Corp OPS.
There is a reason that the first piece of advice every new player gets in PvP is to fly what you can afford to lose. The cool thing about this game is that you are still incredibly useful to your fleet flying a frigate. The same can't be said of other games where not having the best "gear" basically makes you a liability.
I do Love Eves looks, makes you feel like your really out there, but the skill system is just to long for peeps like me who have played the game for years, 3.5 months for a skill is no fun grrr
Darren Wright
Ok, I'll break it down to a much simpler form so you can understand.
Eve is not built around PvP COMBAT, WW2 Online is. Most people in Eve do NOT partake in Eve's rather pathetic PvP COMBAT. Eve's own numbers show this.
I second this. From what I saw of Eve PvP it is either about ganking or warping away. People are so afraid to die, and understandibly so, so the moment they see something resembling a fair fight they try to get away.
Eves PvP combat is constipated, at best, and completely non existant as worst.
Sigh, so much BS, so little time. Been a part of faction wars? Red vs Blue? Fought to the death to save your stations in 0.0? Been part of the empire Merc wars?
I have, and despite definitely being a carebear by nature, I have most certainly spent some time PVPing as it were.
But it is true, in EVE PVP, winning is the most important thing, its what gives the game meaning for those who play it. You fail to understand the mechanic but no reason to keep spewing your crap here.
At any given moment you can set your map overview to show pods killed in the last 24 hours and you will find dozens of systems with sometimes hundreds of pod kills.
Yeah right, no one is pvping.......
Eve is most certainly a social game, and what we do has real meaning in almost every aspect. '
The butterfly effect is more real in EVE than any other MMO out there.
Ofcourse winning is the most important thing but that does not mean that the loser should lose HOURS of gaming time for one PvP death. That has nothing to do with mechanics or whatever, it is possibly to have more lenient death penalties and still maintain the crafting mechanics of the game. Things does not need to be black and white (either no penalty or extreme penalty) you know...
As for PvPing, as was mentioned, there is alot of ganking going on. Meaning gatecampers who kill people gating in/out and hence all the pod kills. If that for you is the definition of PvPing then all the power to you. For me it is not.
But sure, there are 0.0 wars as well but I would say that is not as common as people would want you to believe.
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I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
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I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch. Specially since hardcore death penalties is for a niche audience.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
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I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
It isnt the only spaceship mmo just the only spaceship mmo sandbox and STO wont be a sandbox so it doesnt matter.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
It isnt the only spaceship mmo just the only spaceship mmo sandbox and STO wont be a sandbox so it doesnt matter.
What other spaceship MMORPG is there out there?
Observe that there is a huge difference between sci-fi MMORTS or space strategy games and MMORPG where you control only one entity.
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It isnt the only spaceship mmo just the only spaceship mmo sandbox and STO wont be a sandbox so it doesnt matter.
What other spaceship MMORPG is there out there?
Observe that there is a huge difference between sci-fi MMORTS or space strategy games and MMORPG where you control only one entity.
Jumpgate.... and its funny how you only mention STO without mention Jumpgate evolution and black prophecy. Like what was said earlier though, people play EVE because its spaceship sandbox mmo .... not just because its some spaceship mmo.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
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It isnt the only spaceship mmo just the only spaceship mmo sandbox and STO wont be a sandbox so it doesnt matter.
What other spaceship MMORPG is there out there?
Observe that there is a huge difference between sci-fi MMORTS or space strategy games and MMORPG where you control only one entity.
Darkspace, Jumpgate, Vendetta Online... Ill add more once I have time during my work break today.
As for MMOrts and Space strategy go wouldnt it be fair to add those games also? Eve has elements of everything.
If you followed Eve for a long time like most of us you would have known only recently has Eve been considered a mmorpg by CCP the header used to call Eve an MMOG until CCP felt it would be new player friendly and avoid confusion if they changed it.
Now I would luike to ask you since you seem to be up on the Sto info. Is Sto a sandbox? Does Sto have the level of depth and complexity of Eve industry side? Industry, trade and shit like that is the reason many players stay in High sec not just missions.
What about exploring?
Seriously the fact that you could even put these games in the same thread is kind of funny.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
There is also Vendetta Online which has a small following. To the person claiming he wants some middle ground between risk versus reward i say meh. Have you ever stopped to think a lot of people arnt always looking for their time in an mmo to be filled with happiness and instant gratification.
When you die for example in Aion or WAR, one click and you have respawned. It's fair to say these game follow this middle ground in risk versus reward because they have some sort of capturable area that has an effect on the game world but on a personal level what do you actual feel whilst you PVP in a game like this?
The first couple of times you might get a slight adrenaline rush when you kill someone or conquer a castle, fortress or whatever. But because the games dont actually make you FEEL any loss how joyous is the actual victory? You may have spent hours sweating and Cursing to get the victory but what do you have to show for it.
In Eve because you die you loose a ship and sometimes a pod as well you get a feeling of actual loss, this makes you angry or mad. What some people fail to realise is actually being unhappy in an mmo for a short period of time is GOOD for you. The death you just faced is recorded in the killmail and you can see the exact names of the players involved in blowing you to bits. And you know what?
When you get your chance for revenge and you end up being the person destroying there shps the victory is so much better. This is what draws people to EVE, it's what keeps people playing and it's what will continue to attract people to the game.
I cannot explain to you the emotions I felt the first time my mission runner got caught in a gate camp in his new faction BS.
Seriously I expect my pvp character to die but losing a near 500+ million isk ship ruined my entire day. I still get pissed when I think about it.
I learned from it and believe me My pvp alt got some revenge. I never got the guy from the killmail but I got most of his corpies.
Most satisfying thing i've ever done in a mmo.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
People don't play Eve because "its a space MMO". Sure, there are a lot of people that try Eve because its a space MMO, but if they don't dig the nature of the beast they don't stick around.
STO is a themepark, and as a Cryptic game you can pretty much safely assume it will be fairly shallow. Not that cryptic games aren't fun, but they just aren't particularly deep. The type of person who sticks around and plays Eve doesn't do so just because its the only space MMO on the market (which isn't actually the case anyway). They do it because of the open ended gameplay, player run economy, deep crafting system, empire building, etc; STO, Jumpgate, and Black Prophecy have none of that.
I've never met a single player who disliked Eve's gameplay but stuck around just because "its a space MMO". It's not the type of game you can play unless you really seriously enjoy the game-play, I don't care how much of a spaceship nerd your are. I have met plenty of people that tried Eve because its a space MMO, and lost interest because of the type of gameplay. And those are the people that games like Jumpgate and STO are likely to attrack... but those aren't Eve players.
I'd bet my pension against that. That's how strongly I know you are absolutely 100% wrong
Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there so obviously people who likes that kind of game will play it.
However once STO is released, which is also a spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG, then it would be foolish to think that not some (I say alot) of Eve players will move there.
Sure Eve is "hardcore" and alot of people who likes to think themselves to be "leet" and what not plays the game for that reason but I dont think most of the 300k subscribers Eve has belongs to that cathegory. Most likely alot of them plays Eve because it is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG out there. This is evident by the massive number of people in high-sec space compared to the relative low numbers of people in 0.0 space and even fewer in low sec space (mostly gankers).
When STO is released Eve will not monopolise the genre any more and the flood gates will open up...
I for one love space ship sci-fi games and have been waiting for a fun game like that for years. But somehow losing hours of gaming time for one PvP death is not fun. And I bet alot of other MMORPG players feels the same.
Before you start accusing me for being a WoW fan, carebear, bla bla bla. There is something between huge death penalty and zero death penalty. I don't like either.
Yeah, It's so much more fun to play those games where winning doesn’t mean anything.
What you fail to realize is that most players don't play EVE because it's a spaceship/sci-fi MMO. People stay with the game because it's a sandbox where there actions have a consequence and their decisions are important. EVE has continued to grow even with the release of high profile games, and the one's upcoming don't really look like much of a threat.
Still, the fact is, unless the games are of the sandbox variety they really won't draw people away.
It is amazing how people can comment, and even quote, what I was saying and yet fail to see what I said.
Read my last paragraph again regarding "winning doesnt mean anything".
As for why most people play Eve is all speculations. I deduce that since Eve is the only spaceship-sci-fi MMORPG then it would make sense that alot of people wanting to play that kind of game would play Eve, they dont have any other options. So with the release of STO that wont longer be the case and then it would be natural that alot of people would switch. Specially since hardcore death penalties is for a niche audience.
You think people play Eve mainly because of sandbox with consequences. I dont think so because in Eve you dont play a character, which is how most MMORPGs are, but rather you play a ship and that is something that I think most gamers, hardcore/leet/sandbox or not, would not like. But fine it is your opinion and lets leave it at that.
Well I'm sorry but your just wrong on two points.
First, you haven't spent the last 4 post talking about some make believe game but one very specific game, and that game is set to be a full on themepark! I'm sorry you didn't like my point but it still stands.
As for why people come to the game, EVE's sandbox devoted fan trace themselves back to certain games like UO (and others) and they look for the next big sandbox (darkfall, fallen earth), they are always on the lookout for the next big sandbox and so far it hasn't been made. STO will have less of an effect than LOTR and Warhammer and they had no effect at all. EVE is the most advanced Sandbox on the market (IMHO) and until a better one is released it will continue to grow and evolve.
LOL at this guy " Originally posted by Yamota
When all is said and done, potentially losing hours of gaming time over one PvP death is simply too much for 99% of gamers out there.
Until the devs change that fact, no talk about sandbox, features or whatever is going to make this game anything more than a niche game.
I predict that once Star Trek Online is released, people will be leaving this game in droves."
That would be like going from a steak dinner to eating spam.
Ive been playing EVE for 4 years now and when I die it takes me all of 5 minutes to be back in the fight most times. I have pretty much always been broke in game as well.
Not so. Eve wasn't the first to do "all one world", and even Eve's world is broken up into regions. Eve's economy is region based, not universe based, and every zone is a single instance seperate from the others outside of jumpgates and the like, with only chat channels and (inside regions) the economy being visible.
WW2 Online is a single "world", with no zones, that all the players reside in.
Every game has the technology to do what Eve does. Heck EQ1 was doing it way back when. Its just that most games can't get away with a simple routine to generate an entire zone. Since Eve's "zones" are practically empty except for stations, gates, and belts, it doesn't take much to generate a few thousand more. Eve suffers the same problems other games do when too many players enter one "zone" (Jita, anyone?). There's nothing technologically special about Eve. And in fact, its downtime every day says they didn't code it right in the first place. What other game gets away with having an hour of downtime every day?
As has been said before it is not instanced, it's zoned as not one system or region is a copy of one another. Besides i never saw more than two hundred people in a major town in EQ where as in the major hubs in EVE can handle at least eleven hundred without major lag happening.
Also tell me you have seen battles with more than say 150+ people in one part of a zone that can handle lag very well, so far i have yet to played a MMO that can handle that many, even WoW has major lag when they reach 100+ people in wintergrasp.
Now we're into semantics. Each "zone" is an instance of that zone. Sure, there's only one named "Jita", but its still an instance.
I battle in WW2 Online almost every night with battles that big (or bigger). No lag. And it isn't a "spreadsheet" type of battle either. Actually aiming, firing, etc.
Eve can handle 1100 in a zone because 1000 of them are idle or just chatting in a station.
No, not every zone is an instance of that zone ... the zones ( read : systems ) are all different, they all have a different moon, planet, station, jumpgate, ... layout. So while zones in EVE look alot more alike than in some other mmo's, they are still not instances. Each zone is persistent, there are no exact copies and people can go to every zone they like.
Why do we make such a big deal about it? Because we really don't want instances in EVE Online. We want to be able to meet everyone, shoot everyone, go anywhere we like. And we can, thats the point. You can't in for example WoW, because you can not enter someone's private instance.
But to make you happy, keep calling them instances, we will know you mean zones, okay?
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The argument that EvE will be threatened when STO is released is the dumbest thing I ever heard. No scifi fan, I dont care how hardcore they are, will put up with EvE's "boring" combat because it is the only sci fi space game.
Most of the players play because of the harsh enviorment, complexity of the game, the economy, the pvp (both combat and non), and because of its sandbox.
I would see Darkfall more as a competitor then any other MMO.
While I was at the 2008 Fanfest, someone asked Hilmar Petursson, 'How far ahead does CCP think? Do you have a five year plan for EVE? A ten year plan?'
Hilmar was amused. 'Yes and yes. You might say we have a hundred year plan. As long as people keep playing, we'll keep working, EVE will keep evolving.'
Which pretty much sums up why I'm a shameless fanboy.
That and because I'm a science geek who gets a kick out of some of the obscure details in EVE's sci-fi—the redshifting and blueshifting you see in warp, for instance—great stuff. EVE does not intellectually insult the player. That is a rare virtue in this genre, I think.
Trying to bill Eve as a social game is like trying to say that WoW is a sophisticaed one. Once the new titles come out like the Old Republic, JGE, Star Trek Online etc... Eve will see an exodus perhaps not as large as some have mentioned but it will happen and for all the reasons previously mentioned. There have been dozens of threads on subjects similar to this one listing the issues that CCP has turned a blind eye to.
Every MMO is social.
Those new games that you listed have nothing on Eve. Seriously what other developer is willing to release a spaceship mmo with rts combat and harsh death penalty with players all playing in one game universe?
The people that love Eve wont leave for ToR, JGE or STO its the players that play Eve trial and quit that will enjoy JGE and STO.
Also what issues have CCP turned a blind eye to? seriously imo CCP is damn near perfect atm. I would love to hear of these so called "issues".
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
wanna bet on that? EVE wont go below 300k subscribers after 2010.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -