Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you. The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1) successful and 2) rmt infested. In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game. The numbers simply don't lie. You guys against rmt are an extreme minority. When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket. All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills. Sorry.
Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.
Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.
I'm talking RMT in general. Not RMT supported through developer microtransactions. If you've played any popular NA mmo (WoW, EQ, SWG, etc), you have played a rmt game. More rmt takes place in these games than the miniscule f2p mmos could ever possibly dream of.
Eve is not "pure" rmt. Even when it's clear you relate rmt to f2p microtransaction mmos, eve isn't even remotely close to those kinds of games. Heck, it's so far off as to be shameful to include eve in the same breath as those f2ps.
Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you. The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1) successful and 2) rmt infested. In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game. The numbers simply don't lie. You guys against rmt are an extreme minority. When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket. All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills. Sorry.
Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.
Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.
EVE is a great example of subjective RMT. IMO it isn't selling virtual stuff as it is the virtual form of a monthly subscription - 30 days of game time, that can be traded in-game, while it crosses the line for many. It's kind of interesting though as that game design gives huge (aka efficient) benefits for people playing more than account.
My subjective line gets crossed at the moment in-game items get directly sold on some kind of virtual store that uses a currency based on real money - while that same item could pretty much be available via in-game means if that store never existed, and that includes vanity stuff.
I'm talking RMT in general. Not RMT supported through developer microtransactions. If you've played any popular NA mmo, you have played a rmt game. More rmt takes place in these games than the miniscule f2p mmos could ever possibly dream of.
Ahhhh. Ok. I see what you're saying. You're right, but it's really something different than if the game itself supports RMT and the benefits really help out a character.
A farmer needs to put up an investment to get the items they use for RMT, but on the other hand a game itself is able to create said items out of thin air.
Please, this RMT QQ only feeds Robert Kotick's insatiable hunger.
Coming from a developer standpoint, of which I am.
This only opens the market to a wider audience of players, some who may have hesitated due to subscription fees on top of a box fee. The point of a company is to make as much as money as possible, if they are product based, they do this by making their product accessible to the largest market possible. Currently, for MMO players it is for those who will pay $15 a month, which is a very small portion of the gaming community to virtually every PC and some lucky XBOX/PS3 players.
Look at the population of Korea, a very large percentage of the population plays video games. Not only that, but they do this with ONLY micro-transactions clearly a sign that it works and that the gaming industry over their is flourishing. I mention Korea they more technologically advanced in terms of internet (1gb/s by 2012) - 14 out of 15 million inhabitants have access to internet in their homes . Internet gaming is huge, there are approximately 20,000 internet cafes in South Korea, which is slightly larger than the state of Indiana.
Don't judge the quality of RMT games from Korea to those of the future that emerge from the West. Games are tailored fort he population of which they are created for. In many cases we see Korean games localized to English for Western audience. While many players on the MMORPG.com forums may not enjoy them or think they are lacking is a point of perspective that is unnecessary. These games are clearly profitable enough for them to continue localizing and if they are profitable, clearly people are playing them and buying items or other services.
So whether you like it or not RMT will inevitably become the future, CCP sees it for Dust514 (and already has a form of it in EVE), Blizzard sees it (already has some too), BioWare has some for Dragon Age: Origins, ArenaNet has some for GuildWars. Don't you make yourself look stupid for thinking otherwise.
I think the moral of this thread is Change is Automatically Evil and that we should reject it out of hand rather than carefully weighing the pros and cons of what may merely be a different style of paying for services rendered. Thank you heremypet, for being such a guiding light to us all.
Great. Would you like any salt with your conclusions?
And just what are these supposed "services rendered" anyway? I didn't think winning in video game was a service that some company provided. No, I'm pretty sure that winning in a video game is something the player does.
"I don't win the pet I buy it, because winning is now a service rendered". LMFAO You can't possibly be serious.
The worst part about RMT are the people who support it, you really gotta wonder if these people work for the game companies...
But no that's not it.. you know what? I am now fully convinced that the MMORPG genre is home to biggest group of loser gamers in existence! People who suck at games so badly they can't amount to jack SQUAT unless they hop on an MMO and start grinding!! HAHA!! That's it isn't it??!?! LOL!! How's that for salt?!! HAHAHAH!!!!!
"OH! But grinding was taking too long! now even that was too hard! Now we want to win with even less and less effort!"
"Now It's ultra easy, but I can't win STILL!! I need to buy my wins from EBAY!"
"But now that I've spent so much money WINNING AT VIDEO GAMES ON EBAY big companies caught the sent of all that money!"
"Now with RMT I can finally win at games again! YAY!!!" Pathetic. There is no excuse, just pathetic.
Goodbye and good riddance!! You losers can have the genre!! ENJOY WINNING WITH YOUR CREDIT CARDS!!!
I'm riding with you for the most part it will happen but I'm going to always have a problem with a game that expects both a monthly sub and RMT. Which also kind of invalidates your first point about how RMT will make the games more accessible because some don't want to pay the monthly fee because most of these games are still charging a monthly fee on top of the RMT. I have no problem with a company trying to build up it's bottom line but I won't contribute to this particular system as long as they are charging a monthly I'm not playing a game that includes RMT's sure I'll give a game I want to play a shot but I won't go past say the first month.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
In the last couple of years I've been forced out of several games I've played from launch, namely EQ2 and Vanguard thanks to Cash Shops or RMT. I've also beta tested but then not bothered even purchasing the likes of Champions Online (Cash Shop). I'll admit that some games I just cancelled because they were rubbish: Warhammer, AoC, Aion. And now with WoW and TOR going Microtransaction/RMT, well it's game over man, game over.
I used to have 3 or 4 active subs going at once to various games, I'm now down to just a single subscription to Fallen Earth and I think this will be my last MMO after playing this genre since the days of EQ and UO
Maybe it's an age thing, as an older gamer I resent the whole Microtransaction/RMT/Item store model, especially the current trend for companies to charge in the west for box+sub+mt. I know younger people are more used to this kind of thing thanks to the likes of iPhones etc, and they seem to embrace it more readily. Heck, maybe there isn't a place for old codgers like me who just want a simple monthly subscription for access to everything in a game. But then having said that, I have no problem paying for new songs on Guitar hero, or addon packs for Fallout 3, and I know some people see these as very similar but they are not imho, these are single player games with no monthly sub and I see these addons as adding aditional content above the already ample content that was provided with the core game.
So I'm going back to playing single player RPG's, probably starting with Dragon Age Origins. At least that way I'm not paying a monthly fee ontop of any DLC I may decide to purchase. Do I hope the MMO genre dies ? nope, but it is turning into something I no longer get enjoyment from thanks to these new fangled finance models so I guess the time is fast approaching to bid farewell to the genre and let the new iStuff generation have at it
Funny thing is he actually has some good points, but he correlates them incorrectly. Just because a mmo is easy doesn't mean it uses rmt, and just because a mmo allows rmt doesn't mean it's easy. There is a balance, but radicals like him just can't see it.
Great mmos *will* be made again, and odds are they will *not* support rmt like a f2p game. But I personally expect that at some point we will get a great mmo that supports player to player rmt. IMO, that game will be the next big thing.
In the last couple of years I've been forced out of several games I've played from launch, namely EQ2 and Vanguard thanks to Cash Shops or RMT. I've also beta tested but then not bothered even purchasing the likes of Champions Online (Cash Shop). I'll admit that some games I just cancelled because they were rubbish: Warhammer, AoC, Aion. And now with WoW and TOR going Microtransaction/RMT, well it's game over man, game over. I used to have 3 or 4 active subs going at once to various games, I'm now down to just a single subscription to Fallen Earth and I think this will be my last MMO after playing this genre since the days of EQ and UO Maybe it's an age thing, as an older gamer I resent the whole Microtransaction/RMT/Item store model, especially the current trend for companies to charge in the west for box+sub+mt. I know younger people are more used to this kind of thing thanks to the likes of iPhones etc, and they seem to embrace it more readily. Heck, maybe there isn't a place for old codgers like me who just want a simple monthly subscription for access to everything in a game. But then having said that, I have no problem paying for new songs on Guitar hero, or addon packs for Fallout 3, and I know some people see these as very similar but they are not imho, these are single player games with no monthly sub and I see these addons as adding aditional content above the already ample content that was provided with the core game. So I'm going back to playing single player RPG's, probably starting with Dragon Age Origins. At least that way I'm not paying a monthly fee ontop of any DLC I may decide to purchase. Do I hope the MMO genre dies ? nope, but it is turning into something I no longer get enjoyment from thanks to these new fangled finance models so I guess the time is fast approaching to bid farewell to the genre and let the new iStuff generation have at it
Holy crap, from start to finish my thoughts exactly. I even left the same exact games for the same exact reasons, and playing fallen earth and am about to start Dragon Age. I was also looking forward to TOR but not after learning about microtransactions.
Originally posted by Scagweed22 is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
I guess it's probably because I'm still new to MMOs that I'm still getting a lot of enjoyment from them. I completely and utterly disagree that the MMO genre needs to die, because there are still people who do get enjoyment out of it, like me for example. If you don't like it, then you don't have to follow the genre. And that, I think is extremely fair.
I would be a hypocirit to say I didn't state my gripes about this newest news to the MMO masses. However I must say I find it freaking hilarious it's being taken this far. I've seen multiple long time users take the dive and erase their presense here. Over two stupid looking pets and peoples opinions of them lol. It sucks that people are losing interest in long term hobbies, I still can't help but getting a bit of a chuckle out of this.Sorry if that seems cruel.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Can anyone name a game that wasnt complete when they bought it, and forced you to pay extra for the rest of it?
Any "extra" stuff you buy after the game itself is "extra". You don't *need* to buy it. Get over yourselves.
EQ2, I believe they've introduced an ingame instance that is only accessable buy purchasing LON cards in the hope you luck into getting the item that grants you access to the instance.
I would be a hypocirit to say I didn't state my gripes about this newest news to the MMO masses. However I must say I find it freaking hilarious it's being taken this far. I've seen multiple long time users take the dive and erase their presense here. Over two stupid looking pets and peoples opinions of them lol. It sucks that people are losing interest in long term hobbies, I still can't help but getting a bit of a chuckle out of this.Sorry if that seems cruel.
Yup, they completely overreacted. I have seen what they did have to offer in the DDO store, and nothing earth shattering. Nothing in there is going to let players be more uber than full grinded toons. And to me, its the only thing that matters. It might speed up a little the progression of new players, but who cares? Veterans that already have everything in the game? Really?
People that project the use of RMT to such extreme heights such as, "OMG, noobs will buy the raid loot and be on equal footing with me and my fragile ego" are kind of funny. If it ever happens to attain such a degre, then by all means stop playing those games if you cant stand it. But to do this preemptively?....
As long as I have fun playing games, RMT or no, I will play them.
Yes, perhaps p2p as we know it is doomed to become a niche, but i'm thinking it won't entirely go away. All i really need is a good, solid MMO to take a stand against RMT and which i feel i can trust to play without fear of having whatever i accomplished in game being sold in a cash shop. i suspect i'm not alone in this.
The rest of you can have the entire genre to yourselves, i dont care. Go play your wallet races if it makes you happy, i just need an MMO to spend an hour or two of my day and then i can have my money to spend on many others of life's pleasures.
One of the things i enjoy the most about MMOs is the metagame, finding a good game is a part of that. Vaya con Dios Heremypet.
Just to make things clear... I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
The OP needs to find a different hobby, a hobby in which he has more control. May I suggest model railroading?
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Now with Blizzard jumping on the RMT bandwagon, RMT will spread like a virus. As if it wasn't already bad enough considering how 99% of the MMOs out there are failures or are just plain boring. I feel as though I've wasted a part of my life by following this genre. Now RMT will probably wind up inevitably infecting single player console and PC titles as well. In a sick sort of irony I feel as though I have somehow helped to cause the destruction of gaming by getting into EQ and MMOs in the first place. If EQ had never taken off I might be playing an enjoyable match of Warcraft 4 right now from a company named Blizzard who is still honorable, instead of wasting time waiting for the industry to get its head out of its rear. But who knows maybe they will stop with vanity pets you think? lol Anyone know any good flash game sites?
If your just now figuring this out, your either very slow or a retarded idiot considering your aid in a clone in which blizzard made, and your new found revalation is just simply amazing, Actually the fact the mmo genre is nothing more than the same game refurnished for eye candy. Rather futurestic or not, killed storyline same old skills no real out standing taste and full of false words and promises and somewhat shavings of lies and deciete. Go play an rpg or something kid.
Take a deep drink of your demon Lad, tonight we tangle with the fire in the gut.
I blame all the people who steal games of off torrents, companies gotta recoup that money some how. stupid ignorant thieves ruining things for everyone.
As this discussion is directed at MMO's I find this comment ignorant.
Either we pay a monthly fee or we get to play it free. Torrents of WoW client isn't taking a dime from Blizzard's pocket.
Until a game developer gets the stones to break out of the EQ mold and do something unique, we'll be seeing existing companies trying to come up with different ways to milk the products they already have out for all the money they can wring out of them.
They honestly don't seem to give a flying fuck about their "reputation" with the gaming community, mostly because we are anything but a community. We are not united or organized in any meaningful way that a corporation would take notice of. We can spout off about "just don't play it then" as if that will show them how we feel. The problem is that as more and more gamers jump onboard this idea it happens so godawful slowly that by the time a game company begins to feel the pinch of less subscribers they no long attribute it to our unhappiness with them but with their "cashcow" model and so that is what they adjust.
We need a focal point (website) where we can coordinate mass-cancellations of our subscriptions on the same day. When cancelling be sure to fill out the exit survey and link the website which will hopefully explain the agreed upon grievances leaving little doubt as reason for the loss of their revenue.
Can we organize to that degree? Hard to say. We're an independant lot by nature, but if anything can unite us it's got to be mutual hatred for anyone that fucks with our gaming experience.
Dining out at a restaurant for a meal is your traditional single-player game. You order a meal, you (hopefully) know what you're getting, and it's served. Meals generally have 40 hours worth of eating. Now some guys can burn through that in 10 hours, and other guys stretch it to 80 hours. Sometimes you dine with a friend or two. Sometimes you buy a meal that's totally not what you thought it was (MoO3), you eat it for a few minutes and start throwing up. Then you move on. If you find a restaurant you like, such as Black Isle, you order a lot of meals there. But this isn't stopping you from going out to Bullfrog every now and then.
In the mid-1990s a new type of dining experience was invented with pioneers like Merdian Express, Ultima Bistro, and McQuesties. Truly massive eating experiences (MEEs). You sit down with thousands of other diners and can eat however much you want. Instead of going out to eat with friends, you go out to eat alone and come back having made hundreds of friends. The catch is you are paying $15 a month for this perpetual ongoing buffet. Because you are paying $15 a month, you end up doing all your eating there.
Fast forward 12 years. After BurgerCraft gets up to 10 million paying regulars, it seems every announced dining establishment is either an MEE or has elements of one.
So now the diner is left with a dilemma. He enjoys getting his meals at a MEE. Back when there were a small handful of choices, he didn't mind picking the one with the cuisine he liked and eating there. But now there are hundreds and hundreds of establishments offering massive eating. He can't pay $15 for all of them, so he sticks with the one he is most familiar with (BurgerCraft). And this is why BurgerCraft dominates the massive eating market - everyone eats there because everybody else eats there, and the point of MEEs is to eat with others.
If only there was some way the customer could eat at multiple restaurants. Instead of paying a $15 a month food subscription to every single place he wants try out, what if he only had to pay for the food he wanted to eat when he was hungry? Then he could choose a different MEE to eat at each day, and not be shelling out the subscription for all of them?
Because you see, if he is already subscribed to one MEE any additional MEEs he frequents is essentially wasting his money. He's already paid to eat every meal at BurgerCraft. Why then should he also pay to eat every meal somewhere else, just in case one day he decides he's not in the mood for a burger?
The solution is quite revolutionary. It's called a-la carte.
Let's say every one and I mean absolutely every jumps on the RMT band wagon and the genre looks like it gonna kick the bucket. Now we are talking a serious number of player decline, $$ spent in the marke tat an almost all time low and one more RMT product in a massively saturated market could potentially bring the whole world to an end.
I'm guessing that there will be one company that will release a game that will have a box sale price and a monthly sub - and it would become an instant success.
This is of course assuming that RMT do actually have an adverse affect on the actual market and not just bring out the flame in people who otherwise would have left there ignorance to themselves.
Market share has a funny way of always having a leader and this usually comes about by whoever notices something that is missing that the market is genuinely craving so they produce it and viola now it's not missing anymore.
Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you. The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1) successful and 2) rmt infested. In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game. The numbers simply don't lie. You guys against rmt are an extreme minority. When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket. All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills. Sorry.
Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.
Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.
This is incorrect.
Games with item shops are incredibly successful in the west. There is a good reason why they continue to pop up far more frequently than p2p games.
Comments
Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you.
The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1) successful and 2) rmt infested. In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game. The numbers simply don't lie. You guys against rmt are an extreme minority. When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket. All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills. Sorry.
Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.
Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.
I'm talking RMT in general. Not RMT supported through developer microtransactions. If you've played any popular NA mmo (WoW, EQ, SWG, etc), you have played a rmt game. More rmt takes place in these games than the miniscule f2p mmos could ever possibly dream of.
Eve is not "pure" rmt. Even when it's clear you relate rmt to f2p microtransaction mmos, eve isn't even remotely close to those kinds of games. Heck, it's so far off as to be shameful to include eve in the same breath as those f2ps.
Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you.
The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1) successful and 2) rmt infested. In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game. The numbers simply don't lie. You guys against rmt are an extreme minority. When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket. All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills. Sorry.
Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.
Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.
EVE is a great example of subjective RMT. IMO it isn't selling virtual stuff as it is the virtual form of a monthly subscription - 30 days of game time, that can be traded in-game, while it crosses the line for many. It's kind of interesting though as that game design gives huge (aka efficient) benefits for people playing more than account.
My subjective line gets crossed at the moment in-game items get directly sold on some kind of virtual store that uses a currency based on real money - while that same item could pretty much be available via in-game means if that store never existed, and that includes vanity stuff.
I'm talking RMT in general. Not RMT supported through developer microtransactions. If you've played any popular NA mmo, you have played a rmt game. More rmt takes place in these games than the miniscule f2p mmos could ever possibly dream of.
Ahhhh. Ok. I see what you're saying. You're right, but it's really something different than if the game itself supports RMT and the benefits really help out a character.
A farmer needs to put up an investment to get the items they use for RMT, but on the other hand a game itself is able to create said items out of thin air.
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Please, this RMT QQ only feeds Robert Kotick's insatiable hunger.
Coming from a developer standpoint, of which I am.
This only opens the market to a wider audience of players, some who may have hesitated due to subscription fees on top of a box fee. The point of a company is to make as much as money as possible, if they are product based, they do this by making their product accessible to the largest market possible. Currently, for MMO players it is for those who will pay $15 a month, which is a very small portion of the gaming community to virtually every PC and some lucky XBOX/PS3 players.
Look at the population of Korea, a very large percentage of the population plays video games. Not only that, but they do this with ONLY micro-transactions clearly a sign that it works and that the gaming industry over their is flourishing. I mention Korea they more technologically advanced in terms of internet (1gb/s by 2012) - 14 out of 15 million inhabitants have access to internet in their homes . Internet gaming is huge, there are approximately 20,000 internet cafes in South Korea, which is slightly larger than the state of Indiana.
Don't judge the quality of RMT games from Korea to those of the future that emerge from the West. Games are tailored fort he population of which they are created for. In many cases we see Korean games localized to English for Western audience. While many players on the MMORPG.com forums may not enjoy them or think they are lacking is a point of perspective that is unnecessary. These games are clearly profitable enough for them to continue localizing and if they are profitable, clearly people are playing them and buying items or other services.
So whether you like it or not RMT will inevitably become the future, CCP sees it for Dust514 (and already has a form of it in EVE), Blizzard sees it (already has some too), BioWare has some for Dragon Age: Origins, ArenaNet has some for GuildWars. Don't you make yourself look stupid for thinking otherwise.
Great. Would you like any salt with your conclusions?
And just what are these supposed "services rendered" anyway? I didn't think winning in video game was a service that some company provided. No, I'm pretty sure that winning in a video game is something the player does.
"I don't win the pet I buy it, because winning is now a service rendered". LMFAO You can't possibly be serious.
The worst part about RMT are the people who support it, you really gotta wonder if these people work for the game companies...
But no that's not it.. you know what? I am now fully convinced that the MMORPG genre is home to biggest group of loser gamers in existence! People who suck at games so badly they can't amount to jack SQUAT unless they hop on an MMO and start grinding!! HAHA!! That's it isn't it??!?! LOL!! How's that for salt?!! HAHAHAH!!!!!
"OH! But grinding was taking too long! now even that was too hard! Now we want to win with even less and less effort!"
"Now It's ultra easy, but I can't win STILL!! I need to buy my wins from EBAY!"
"But now that I've spent so much money WINNING AT VIDEO GAMES ON EBAY big companies caught the sent of all that money!"
"Now with RMT I can finally win at games again! YAY!!!" Pathetic. There is no excuse, just pathetic.
Goodbye and good riddance!! You losers can have the genre!! ENJOY WINNING WITH YOUR CREDIT CARDS!!!
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! FREAKING LOSERS!!!
- Heremypet
"Good? Bad? I'm the guy with the gun."
I'm riding with you for the most part it will happen but I'm going to always have a problem with a game that expects both a monthly sub and RMT. Which also kind of invalidates your first point about how RMT will make the games more accessible because some don't want to pay the monthly fee because most of these games are still charging a monthly fee on top of the RMT. I have no problem with a company trying to build up it's bottom line but I won't contribute to this particular system as long as they are charging a monthly I'm not playing a game that includes RMT's sure I'll give a game I want to play a shot but I won't go past say the first month.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
In the last couple of years I've been forced out of several games I've played from launch, namely EQ2 and Vanguard thanks to Cash Shops or RMT. I've also beta tested but then not bothered even purchasing the likes of Champions Online (Cash Shop). I'll admit that some games I just cancelled because they were rubbish: Warhammer, AoC, Aion. And now with WoW and TOR going Microtransaction/RMT, well it's game over man, game over.
I used to have 3 or 4 active subs going at once to various games, I'm now down to just a single subscription to Fallen Earth and I think this will be my last MMO after playing this genre since the days of EQ and UO
Maybe it's an age thing, as an older gamer I resent the whole Microtransaction/RMT/Item store model, especially the current trend for companies to charge in the west for box+sub+mt. I know younger people are more used to this kind of thing thanks to the likes of iPhones etc, and they seem to embrace it more readily. Heck, maybe there isn't a place for old codgers like me who just want a simple monthly subscription for access to everything in a game. But then having said that, I have no problem paying for new songs on Guitar hero, or addon packs for Fallout 3, and I know some people see these as very similar but they are not imho, these are single player games with no monthly sub and I see these addons as adding aditional content above the already ample content that was provided with the core game.
So I'm going back to playing single player RPG's, probably starting with Dragon Age Origins. At least that way I'm not paying a monthly fee ontop of any DLC I may decide to purchase. Do I hope the MMO genre dies ? nope, but it is turning into something I no longer get enjoyment from thanks to these new fangled finance models so I guess the time is fast approaching to bid farewell to the genre and let the new iStuff generation have at it
lol deleted account. Way to make a stand!!
Funny thing is he actually has some good points, but he correlates them incorrectly. Just because a mmo is easy doesn't mean it uses rmt, and just because a mmo allows rmt doesn't mean it's easy. There is a balance, but radicals like him just can't see it.
Great mmos *will* be made again, and odds are they will *not* support rmt like a f2p game. But I personally expect that at some point we will get a great mmo that supports player to player rmt. IMO, that game will be the next big thing.
Holy crap, from start to finish my thoughts exactly. I even left the same exact games for the same exact reasons, and playing fallen earth and am about to start Dragon Age. I was also looking forward to TOR but not after learning about microtransactions.
Originally posted by Scagweed22
is it the graphics? the repetativenesses? i mean what is the point? you could be so much more productive in real life
Real life brings repetition and pointlessness too. The only thing real life offers is Great graphics. Its kinda expensive too and way to dependent on the cash shop. Totally pay to win as well. No thank you. Ill stick to my games.
Wow...he deleted his account. We'll always remember you heremypet.
I guess it's probably because I'm still new to MMOs that I'm still getting a lot of enjoyment from them. I completely and utterly disagree that the MMO genre needs to die, because there are still people who do get enjoyment out of it, like me for example. If you don't like it, then you don't have to follow the genre. And that, I think is extremely fair.
Main characters:
Jinn Gone Quiet (Guild Wars)
Princess Pudding (Guild Wars)
I'm with the OP. MMOGs are dead now.. I'm out.
Dead? Really? 20 million + is dead?
I would be a hypocirit to say I didn't state my gripes about this newest news to the MMO masses. However I must say I find it freaking hilarious it's being taken this far. I've seen multiple long time users take the dive and erase their presense here. Over two stupid looking pets and peoples opinions of them lol. It sucks that people are losing interest in long term hobbies, I still can't help but getting a bit of a chuckle out of this.Sorry if that seems cruel.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Can anyone name a game that wasnt complete when they bought it, and forced you to pay extra for the rest of it?
Any "extra" stuff you buy after the game itself is "extra". You don't *need* to buy it. Get over yourselves.
EQ2, I believe they've introduced an ingame instance that is only accessable buy purchasing LON cards in the hope you luck into getting the item that grants you access to the instance.
Yup, they completely overreacted. I have seen what they did have to offer in the DDO store, and nothing earth shattering. Nothing in there is going to let players be more uber than full grinded toons. And to me, its the only thing that matters. It might speed up a little the progression of new players, but who cares? Veterans that already have everything in the game? Really?
People that project the use of RMT to such extreme heights such as, "OMG, noobs will buy the raid loot and be on equal footing with me and my fragile ego" are kind of funny. If it ever happens to attain such a degre, then by all means stop playing those games if you cant stand it. But to do this preemptively?....
As long as I have fun playing games, RMT or no, I will play them.
Yes, perhaps p2p as we know it is doomed to become a niche, but i'm thinking it won't entirely go away. All i really need is a good, solid MMO to take a stand against RMT and which i feel i can trust to play without fear of having whatever i accomplished in game being sold in a cash shop. i suspect i'm not alone in this.
The rest of you can have the entire genre to yourselves, i dont care. Go play your wallet races if it makes you happy, i just need an MMO to spend an hour or two of my day and then i can have my money to spend on many others of life's pleasures.
One of the things i enjoy the most about MMOs is the metagame, finding a good game is a part of that. Vaya con Dios Heremypet.
Just to make things clear...
I speak for myself and no one else, unless i state otherwise mine is just an opinion. A fact is something that can be independently verified, you may challenge such but with proof. You have every right to disagree with me through sound argument, i believe in constructive debate, but baseless aggression will warrant an unkind response.
The OP needs to find a different hobby, a hobby in which he has more control. May I suggest model railroading?
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Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
If your just now figuring this out, your either very slow or a retarded idiot considering your aid in a clone in which blizzard made, and your new found revalation is just simply amazing, Actually the fact the mmo genre is nothing more than the same game refurnished for eye candy. Rather futurestic or not, killed storyline same old skills no real out standing taste and full of false words and promises and somewhat shavings of lies and deciete. Go play an rpg or something kid.
Take a deep drink of your demon Lad, tonight we tangle with the fire in the gut.
As this discussion is directed at MMO's I find this comment ignorant.
Either we pay a monthly fee or we get to play it free. Torrents of WoW client isn't taking a dime from Blizzard's pocket.
Until a game developer gets the stones to break out of the EQ mold and do something unique, we'll be seeing existing companies trying to come up with different ways to milk the products they already have out for all the money they can wring out of them.
They honestly don't seem to give a flying fuck about their "reputation" with the gaming community, mostly because we are anything but a community. We are not united or organized in any meaningful way that a corporation would take notice of. We can spout off about "just don't play it then" as if that will show them how we feel. The problem is that as more and more gamers jump onboard this idea it happens so godawful slowly that by the time a game company begins to feel the pinch of less subscribers they no long attribute it to our unhappiness with them but with their "cashcow" model and so that is what they adjust.
We need a focal point (website) where we can coordinate mass-cancellations of our subscriptions on the same day. When cancelling be sure to fill out the exit survey and link the website which will hopefully explain the agreed upon grievances leaving little doubt as reason for the loss of their revenue.
Can we organize to that degree? Hard to say. We're an independant lot by nature, but if anything can unite us it's got to be mutual hatred for anyone that fucks with our gaming experience.
I'm going to make a restaurant analogy here.
Dining out at a restaurant for a meal is your traditional single-player game. You order a meal, you (hopefully) know what you're getting, and it's served. Meals generally have 40 hours worth of eating. Now some guys can burn through that in 10 hours, and other guys stretch it to 80 hours. Sometimes you dine with a friend or two. Sometimes you buy a meal that's totally not what you thought it was (MoO3), you eat it for a few minutes and start throwing up. Then you move on. If you find a restaurant you like, such as Black Isle, you order a lot of meals there. But this isn't stopping you from going out to Bullfrog every now and then.
In the mid-1990s a new type of dining experience was invented with pioneers like Merdian Express, Ultima Bistro, and McQuesties. Truly massive eating experiences (MEEs). You sit down with thousands of other diners and can eat however much you want. Instead of going out to eat with friends, you go out to eat alone and come back having made hundreds of friends. The catch is you are paying $15 a month for this perpetual ongoing buffet. Because you are paying $15 a month, you end up doing all your eating there.
Fast forward 12 years. After BurgerCraft gets up to 10 million paying regulars, it seems every announced dining establishment is either an MEE or has elements of one.
So now the diner is left with a dilemma. He enjoys getting his meals at a MEE. Back when there were a small handful of choices, he didn't mind picking the one with the cuisine he liked and eating there. But now there are hundreds and hundreds of establishments offering massive eating. He can't pay $15 for all of them, so he sticks with the one he is most familiar with (BurgerCraft). And this is why BurgerCraft dominates the massive eating market - everyone eats there because everybody else eats there, and the point of MEEs is to eat with others.
If only there was some way the customer could eat at multiple restaurants. Instead of paying a $15 a month food subscription to every single place he wants try out, what if he only had to pay for the food he wanted to eat when he was hungry? Then he could choose a different MEE to eat at each day, and not be shelling out the subscription for all of them?
Because you see, if he is already subscribed to one MEE any additional MEEs he frequents is essentially wasting his money. He's already paid to eat every meal at BurgerCraft. Why then should he also pay to eat every meal somewhere else, just in case one day he decides he's not in the mood for a burger?
The solution is quite revolutionary. It's called a-la carte.
The genre could very well die . . . World of Warcraft would still survive it though
Let's say every one and I mean absolutely every jumps on the RMT band wagon and the genre looks like it gonna kick the bucket. Now we are talking a serious number of player decline, $$ spent in the marke tat an almost all time low and one more RMT product in a massively saturated market could potentially bring the whole world to an end.
I'm guessing that there will be one company that will release a game that will have a box sale price and a monthly sub - and it would become an instant success.
This is of course assuming that RMT do actually have an adverse affect on the actual market and not just bring out the flame in people who otherwise would have left there ignorance to themselves.
Market share has a funny way of always having a leader and this usually comes about by whoever notices something that is missing that the market is genuinely craving so they produce it and viola now it's not missing anymore.
Currently Playing: SUN Online
Since we're usually on the same page in regards to our thoughts on games, I'm gonna go easy on you.
The fact of the matter is that every game I've *really* played has been 1) successful and 2) rmt infested. In my book, the lack of rmt usually points to a poor game. The numbers simply don't lie. You guys against rmt are an extreme minority. When you quit mmos because of rmt you are but the slightest drop in the bucket. All the other people who either participate in rmt or don't really give a darn will still be there paying the bills. Sorry.
Ummm.... in the West, RMT games fail pretty hard. They are usually only successful with kids who just want the F2P aspect of most RMT games.
Except in EVE's case. EVE's system is pure RMT, but it's done in a way that really works with the way the game is designed.
This is incorrect.
Games with item shops are incredibly successful in the west. There is a good reason why they continue to pop up far more frequently than p2p games.