wow dude you need to chill out a bit. I didnt critisize your girlfriend or mom, fanboys seem to confuse that sometimes.... back to the topic. I ll try to make it simple. As a customer I'd like to get as much as possible for my money, its simple as that. With TBC about the same time after its release I had # Serpentshrine Cavern
# The Eye
# Battle for Mount Hyjal
# Black Temple PLUS # Karazhan
# Zul'Aman In WOTLK in the same time period I got # Naxxramas
#Crusaders' Coliseum(cant call that 100x100 arena a real raid dungeon) with Naxx being an already existing rehashed raid instance. So allow me to say I feel I am getting milked as a wow player. Its sick that blizz is investing less manpower in this game while having more subscribers than before. if the wow player base would be more demanding, we would get more content.....
<Mod Edit>
Oh you are talking about a soap opera, right?
Or are you trying to film a movie about class act with all 5 or 10 million subscribers around the world pressing Blizzard for more free content?
Oh Blizzard is making great money, all 5 million sub are entitled to a free mercedes. Now GM Ford and Chrysler is losing big money, they can demand all ex and current owners to donate $500.
Does business world work like that? Does reality work like that?
Ripping off, oh GM is losing money, the consumers are ripping off GM. Lets call the forum police, lets call Widardry to the rescue.
'Haris Pilton's got a brand new bag'.....omg thanks blizz, I was soooo looking forward to it
again any explanation why in TBC we had SEVEN complete and different raidinstances with multiple bosses and in WOTLK we got THREE plus a crippled one (TOC) ??? anyone?
And spare me with the one stop instances like VOA, OS, EOE
'Haris Pilton's got a brand new bag'.....omg thanks blizz, I was soooo looking forward to it again any explanation why in TBC we had SEVEN complete and different raidinstances with multiple bosses and in WOTLK we got THREE plus a crippled one (TOC) ??? anyone? And spare me with the one stop instances like VOA, OS, EOE
The following raids are in or will be in wotlk when 3.3 arrives
Vault of Archavon - 3 bosses
Chamber of the Aspects - 1 - 4 bosses depending on how you do it
Crusaders' Coliseum - I forget about 8?
Icecrown Citadel - 12 bosses
Ulduar - 12 bosses
Onyxia's Lair - 1 boss
Naxxramas - 14 I think
Yes Onyxia is an easy reshash, Naxx took some more effort to get it to work with 10/25 but as only a tiny percentage had played Naxx it can be concidered a new raid IMHO.
Blizzard raid design has changed since TBC, blizzard want as much content accessable to as many people as possible, so we have lots of short raids, VOA,CoA,Onyxia etc but they have maintained the epic raids Ulduar and the soon Citadel. the coliseum is some place in between. but FFS it was a coliseum how did you think it would play?
Blizzard have put just as much effort in Wrath than TBC.. just becuase they are earning big money does not mean we're entitled to more content than the next game, cheaper sub fees or 10% discount at bestbuys.
Blizzard have several projects on the go and they aint cheap, SC2, D3, Bnet2 and the new MMO.
'Haris Pilton's got a brand new bag'.....omg thanks blizz, I was soooo looking forward to it again any explanation why in TBC we had SEVEN complete and different raidinstances with multiple bosses and in WOTLK we got THREE plus a crippled one (TOC) ??? anyone? And spare me with the one stop instances like VOA, OS, EOE
So you already counted ...6 then. Since VOA is now already 3 bosses, while TBC's Gruul and Magtheridon had only 2 and 1 boss ...
It shows you can't count....
Oh Btw, TBC did NOT have an open world PvP zone where the most lucrative Mats are dropped, containing a massive Siege fight.
TBC only had one new BG, while Wotlk not only has 2 (Strand and Isle), but also again a 40 against 40 BG. New Arena's were added too.
While the GAME mechanics in Wotlk were changed for the better: dual specs - leveling through PvP - and now cross server dungeon crawling - adaptable Raid content for small and large guilds (10/25), etc...
Comparing the GENERAL content offer of Wotlk with TBC, I would say that after viewing patch 3.3, Wotlk has around 20% more content than TBC after one year.
There is one aspect of "watering down" of the new instances. The absence of minor trash mobs. In VoA you have a couple of trivial trash mobs. In TotC and ToGC, there is no mob.
Actually some of the fun in the past are found in getting pass some tricky trash.
Oh Btw, TBC did NOT have an open world PvP zone where the most lucrative Mats are dropped, containing a massive Siege fight.
WOTLK doesn't have it either. In fact there isn't ANY open world PVP in WOW AT ALL....Wintergrasp is an instanced BG just like all the others....just a bit bigger lol.
So stop the ridiculous lie about wow and open world pvp.....
Aside from Wintergrasp and Grizzly Hills, in the few months I've been back there are groups forming just about every night to raid the opposing faction's capital cities. Isn't this "open world PvP"? This is encouraged via the achievement system. While you can cherry pick the silly achievements that are there for humor value, there are a number that have successfully encouraged people to try other parts of the game (PvE, PvP, Crafting, etc).
All this talk about open world pvp though.....isn't that what PvP servers are pretty much there for?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Oh Btw, TBC did NOT have an open world PvP zone where the most lucrative Mats are dropped, containing a massive Siege fight.
WOTLK doesn't have it either. In fact there isn't ANY open world PVP in WOW AT ALL....Wintergrasp is an instanced BG just like all the others....just a bit bigger lol.
So stop the ridiculous lie about wow and open world pvp.....
Have you ever been in WG? It's not instanced.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
WG is instanced??? That is news to me, because I swear I fly there all the time. Unless lfying into a open world now is called instanced lol. No open world pvp? Must be my imagination all those horde raids on SW, IF darnasus etc to kill the bosses. yes granted there sint the same lvl of Open world pvp like back in the day at TM/SS, ashenvale,XR, STV etc etc, but there is still enough to be had espcecially on pvp servers.
Quite frankly, much as I dislike Blizzard and WoW, this is a massive update.
Sweet jesus Thillian has had something neutral to say about wow for once. Will wounders never cease.
This wasn't neutral. This was positive. Cross-realm LFG is a huge step forward in terms of server technologies, something which all multiple-server MMO's should adopt. And to that, quest tracker, new dungeon, new raid... well I'm amazed actually.
Quite frankly, much as I dislike Blizzard and WoW, this is a massive update.
Sweet jesus Thillian has had something neutral to say about wow for once. Will wounders never cease.
This wasn't neutral. This was positive. Cross-realm LFG is a huge step forward in terms of server technologies, something which all multiple-server MMO's should adopt. And to that, quest tracker, new dungeon, new raid... well I'm amazed actually.
I was thinking about saying "positive" at first, but I thought neutral sounded better, lets not get ahead of ourselves:). One step at a time.
Quite frankly, much as I dislike Blizzard and WoW, this is a massive update.
Sweet jesus Thillian has had something neutral to say about wow for once. Will wounders never cease.
This wasn't neutral. This was positive. Cross-realm LFG is a huge step forward in terms of server technologies, something which all multiple-server MMO's should adopt. And to that, quest tracker, new dungeon, new raid... well I'm amazed actually.
I was thinking about saying "positive" at first, but I thought neutral sounded better, lets not get ahead of ourselves:). One step at a time.
I understand, Neutral is a good way to go.
The problem with these "steps forward in terms of server technologies" is, well, this is something Blizzard has done. Do you know how to program? How would one program an MMO server to connect with another MMO server and get player info, and transfer them to what I can only assume is another, seperate, less powerful server that controls a number of instances with players in them?
Blizzard isn't going to discover gold, and then tell everyone where the gold is - otherwise everyone will have gold, and what little Blizzard has will be of less value. Multiple servers all adjusting and transfering player information between eachother, while communicating back to the players themselves, is an incredible technology in terms of MMOs, and whoever controls the spice controls the universe.
Or, erm, the dominant percentage of the potential player base.
I like the way Jews do things - in the family. Continually adding onto their parents' legacy... why can't that happen with other things? Makes me sad when NVidia and ATI just compete and compete, rather than acknoledging eachother's prowess at graphic card technology and making fantastic graphic card after graphic card.
*shrugs* works well enough, I suppose...
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
There have always been world-pvp objectives since Vanilla wow. There were the towers in EPL, and then more towers and Halaa in BC, and now there's WG. All that aside, I can't wait until 3.3
I checked Wintergrasp yesterday again to see if things have changed (who knows) and it was as expected. Inbetween the instanced siege fights the place is pretty much deserted. There might be here and there somone buying some items at the vendor or picking some flowers but I havent seen any open pvp going on. Which is pretty much logic, if you are there to farm mats you wouldn't want to get yourself involved in pvp fights and if you would get into fights all the time while farming nodes or fishing you would stop soon going there.
Anyway as said the PVP event itself in Wintergrasp IS instanced and limited - so it is a (bigger) BG event, nothing like socalled open world pvp. On the other hand if you call the handful people wandering around the zone in between the pvp events and happily farming mats next to each other, open world pvp I have to lmao. Thats pretty poor open world pvp seriously.
As to raiding major cities and killing the other factions bosses......yawn. Nothing more than a degraded pve event as people mainly fight the guards/npcs. At least on my server people hardly care if a city is raided by the other faction - hardly anyone moves his ass from the AH or whatever he is doing to defend....thats todays situation unfortunately in wow.
Wintergrasp is NOT instanced , it's an open ended world PvP zone even on PVE servers. .... and you obviously are NOT playing on a PvP server where people "are happily farming mats next to each other" in that zone.
----- > Before talking about PvP, how about playing on a ... PvP server instead. I play on both type of servers and I can't believe my eyes you even dare to state this. But you also said of course Wintergrasp was instanced... So when it comes to raiding cities and the other factions you say "yawn"... It shows your general attitude. A pity your remarks are dated 2 years back. On EU Al'Akir every night there is heavy fighting both in LW everywhere and City Raids. Hang on to your hats when the guild leveling PvP system will be in place in Cata.
Sorry but it wasnt me who claimed that wow players will get REAL open world pvp even on PVE servers.....which miserable failed of course as they had to limit the max number of players in the zone as soon as the event starts, because of the unbearable lag- and slideshow fest.
Ok even if the zone is not physically on a seperate instance server, the fact that you get a loading screen and ported out of the zone is FEELING and PLAYING like in a BG instance.....thats all that matters. You cant enter the zone if its full - so much for OPEN world pvp. The siege event could easily be on a separate instance server, nothing at all would change.
Is it so hard to accept that open world pvp on PVE servers failed ??? On pvp servers it was always possible to engage in pvp all around the game world., but wintergrasp wasnt implemented to introduce open world pvp on PVP servers, but on pve servers.
The debate really seems to be a moving target. First there is a vast shortage of raids. When it turns out WoTLK is only one raid short when 3.3 hits, then it's the quality of the raids. As that discussion progresses the target changes to PvP and the lack of Open World PvP. When multiple people correct the statement all of a sudden the Open World PvP discounted despite fitting the description. I mean, don't get me wrong, sucks if your server does not bother defending their cities, but that has not been my experience. There could be any number of factors for this which might include things like time of day, server pop, or direction the wind is blowing, but really, it's still Open World PvP whether you choose to be there for it or not.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
The debate really seems to be a moving target. First there is a vast shortage of raids. When it turns out WoTLK is only one raid short when 3.3 hits, then it's the quality of the raids. As that discussion progresses the target changes to PvP and the lack of Open World PvP. When multiple people correct the statement all of a sudden the Open World PvP discounted despite fitting the description. I mean, don't get me wrong, sucks if your server does not bother defending their cities, but that has not been my experience. There could be any number of factors for this which might include things like time of day, server pop, or direction the wind is blowing, but really, it's still Open World PvP whether you choose to be there for it or not.
1. There *is* a shortage of raids and their quality. There was Ulduar, EoE as new content and new zones. Naxx was rehashed, and ToC is laughable- 1 room with oversized, already-used models. VoA is a 10min zergfest for veterans and PUGs alike. Anything to disclaim from this?
2. Open world PvP in a literal sense is, well, pvp regardless of place or time. What do people *mean* when they say open world PvP? Spontaneity. People who whine about it don't know exactly how to express it. There is nothing 'open' about a scheduled event, once every 2hr30. There is nothing 'open' about knowing *where* to go at the drop of a dime for PvP. It is 'world' content, sure, but there's no soul to it. There's no vibrant factor. People use the term 'instanced' because it does 2 things: it isolates time, and place. BGs are literally 'instanced'- housed on seperate, physical servers, and external to any interactions with the 'world at large'. Newsflash? WG, despite being attached to the 'world at large', 'feels' 'instanced' because it meets all the criteria of what 'instanced' content is, not that of 'open world' content. It's like the heart: it's a red muscle in the body, but is categorized as a white muscle group. It's role and function meet all of the other grouping's criteria.
Typical forum chatter, however. People splitting hairs over literal word meanings and failing to understand the root or underbelly of what they're attempting to discuss.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc. We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be. So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away. - MMO_Doubter
The debate really seems to be a moving target. First there is a vast shortage of raids. When it turns out WoTLK is only one raid short when 3.3 hits, then it's the quality of the raids. As that discussion progresses the target changes to PvP and the lack of Open World PvP. When multiple people correct the statement all of a sudden the Open World PvP discounted despite fitting the description. I mean, don't get me wrong, sucks if your server does not bother defending their cities, but that has not been my experience. There could be any number of factors for this which might include things like time of day, server pop, or direction the wind is blowing, but really, it's still Open World PvP whether you choose to be there for it or not.
1. There *is* a shortage of raids and their quality. There was Ulduar, EoE as new content and new zones. Naxx was rehashed, and ToC is laughable- 1 room with oversized, already-used models. VoA is a 10min zergfest for veterans and PUGs alike. Anything to disclaim from this?
2. Open world PvP in a literal sense is, well, pvp regardless of place or time. What do people *mean* when they say open world PvP? Spontaneity. People who whine about it don't know exactly how to express it. There is nothing 'open' about a scheduled event, once every 2hr30. There is nothing 'open' about knowing *where* to go at the drop of a dime for PvP. It is 'world' content, sure, but there's no soul to it. There's no vibrant factor. People use the term 'instanced' because it does 2 things: it isolates time, and place. BGs are literally 'instanced'- housed on seperate, physical servers, and external to any interactions with the 'world at large'. Newsflash? WG, despite being attached to the 'world at large', 'feels' 'instanced' because it meets all the criteria of what 'instanced' content is, not that of 'open world' content. It's like the heart: it's a red muscle in the body, but is categorized as a white muscle group. It's role and function meet all of the other grouping's criteria.
Typical forum chatter, however. People splitting hairs over literal word meanings and failing to understand the root or underbelly of what they're attempting to discuss.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if Blizzard release a new raid dungeon every month that 95% of the playerbase wouldn't be able to keep up. So why would they do that?
1. There *is* a shortage of raids and their quality. There was Ulduar, EoE as new content and new zones. Naxx was rehashed, and ToC is laughable- 1 room with oversized, already-used models. VoA is a 10min zergfest for veterans and PUGs alike. Anything to disclaim from this? 2. Open world PvP in a literal sense is, well, pvp regardless of place or time. What do people *mean* when they say open world PvP? Spontaneity. People who whine about it don't know exactly how to express it. There is nothing 'open' about a scheduled event, once every 2hr30. There is nothing 'open' about knowing *where* to go at the drop of a dime for PvP. It is 'world' content, sure, but there's no soul to it. There's no vibrant factor. People use the term 'instanced' because it does 2 things: it isolates time, and place. BGs are literally 'instanced'- housed on seperate, physical servers, and external to any interactions with the 'world at large'. Newsflash? WG, despite being attached to the 'world at large', 'feels' 'instanced' because it meets all the criteria of what 'instanced' content is, not that of 'open world' content. It's like the heart: it's a red muscle in the body, but is categorized as a white muscle group. It's role and function meet all of the other grouping's criteria.
Typical forum chatter, however. People splitting hairs over literal word meanings and failing to understand the root or underbelly of what they're attempting to discuss.
There has already been ample reply to #1. I'll add to it that ToC was not added alone, but instead was added with the tournament grounds that include various quests. There was also a "building" event to help establish the tournament (akin to the AQ war effort for example). So, as stated earlier, quality is subjective and an endless argument that noone can win. Quantity, well, WotLK has one less raid when 3.3 hits. Not a huge variation in my opinion.
As to the second point, PvP servers, by definition, have open world pvp. It can happen anywhere and at any time. PvE servers have a different rule set to accomodate players who don't want spontaneous PvP. So it seems there is no argument here as there is a ruleset that accomodates exactly what you are talking about. Is your complaint that WG provides an external motivation for players to gather together and fight it out? I'm not really sure how that is a bad thing on a PvE or PvP server. I mean, random skirmishes are fun and all, but fighting for a continent wide buff and access to a raid instance are nice perks.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I'm thankful I will never have to worry about trying to acquire that gear. All the tier sets past tier 2 have looked horrible imo. I mean with few exceptions These new ones look pretty bad to me (except the warrior one).
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
<Mod Edit>
Oh you are talking about a soap opera, right?
Or are you trying to film a movie about class act with all 5 or 10 million subscribers around the world pressing Blizzard for more free content?
Oh Blizzard is making great money, all 5 million sub are entitled to a free mercedes. Now GM Ford and Chrysler is losing big money, they can demand all ex and current owners to donate $500.
Does business world work like that? Does reality work like that?
Ripping off, oh GM is losing money, the consumers are ripping off GM. Lets call the forum police, lets call Widardry to the rescue.
'Haris Pilton's got a brand new bag'.....omg thanks blizz, I was soooo looking forward to it
again any explanation why in TBC we had SEVEN complete and different raidinstances with multiple bosses and in WOTLK we got THREE plus a crippled one (TOC) ??? anyone?
And spare me with the one stop instances like VOA, OS, EOE
Wow thx Coffee, i wasn´t sure if i was going to make a dwarf shaman but damn, those totems rock xD
The following raids are in or will be in wotlk when 3.3 arrives
Yes Onyxia is an easy reshash, Naxx took some more effort to get it to work with 10/25 but as only a tiny percentage had played Naxx it can be concidered a new raid IMHO.
Blizzard raid design has changed since TBC, blizzard want as much content accessable to as many people as possible, so we have lots of short raids, VOA,CoA,Onyxia etc but they have maintained the epic raids Ulduar and the soon Citadel. the coliseum is some place in between. but FFS it was a coliseum how did you think it would play?
Blizzard have put just as much effort in Wrath than TBC.. just becuase they are earning big money does not mean we're entitled to more content than the next game, cheaper sub fees or 10% discount at bestbuys.
Blizzard have several projects on the go and they aint cheap, SC2, D3, Bnet2 and the new MMO.
So you already counted ...6 then. Since VOA is now already 3 bosses, while TBC's Gruul and Magtheridon had only 2 and 1 boss ...
It shows you can't count....
Oh Btw, TBC did NOT have an open world PvP zone where the most lucrative Mats are dropped, containing a massive Siege fight.
TBC only had one new BG, while Wotlk not only has 2 (Strand and Isle), but also again a 40 against 40 BG. New Arena's were added too.
While the GAME mechanics in Wotlk were changed for the better: dual specs - leveling through PvP - and now cross server dungeon crawling - adaptable Raid content for small and large guilds (10/25), etc...
Comparing the GENERAL content offer of Wotlk with TBC, I would say that after viewing patch 3.3, Wotlk has around 20% more content than TBC after one year.
There is one aspect of "watering down" of the new instances. The absence of minor trash mobs. In VoA you have a couple of trivial trash mobs. In TotC and ToGC, there is no mob.
Actually some of the fun in the past are found in getting pass some tricky trash.
WOTLK doesn't have it either. In fact there isn't ANY open world PVP in WOW AT ALL....Wintergrasp is an instanced BG just like all the others....just a bit bigger lol.
So stop the ridiculous lie about wow and open world pvp.....
Aside from Wintergrasp and Grizzly Hills, in the few months I've been back there are groups forming just about every night to raid the opposing faction's capital cities. Isn't this "open world PvP"? This is encouraged via the achievement system. While you can cherry pick the silly achievements that are there for humor value, there are a number that have successfully encouraged people to try other parts of the game (PvE, PvP, Crafting, etc).
All this talk about open world pvp though.....isn't that what PvP servers are pretty much there for?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
WOTLK doesn't have it either. In fact there isn't ANY open world PVP in WOW AT ALL....Wintergrasp is an instanced BG just like all the others....just a bit bigger lol.
So stop the ridiculous lie about wow and open world pvp.....
Have you ever been in WG? It's not instanced.
Katsma is Lithuanian for 'he who drinks used douche fluid'.
WG is instanced??? That is news to me, because I swear I fly there all the time. Unless lfying into a open world now is called instanced lol. No open world pvp? Must be my imagination all those horde raids on SW, IF darnasus etc to kill the bosses. yes granted there sint the same lvl of Open world pvp like back in the day at TM/SS, ashenvale,XR, STV etc etc, but there is still enough to be had espcecially on pvp servers.
Really looking forward to the cross server dungeons, mainly I am hoping it cuts grouping wait times down.
also looking forward to the new 'official' quest helper, the less mods I have to use the better. >_>;
Quite frankly, much as I dislike Blizzard and WoW, this is a massive update.
REALITY CHECK
Sweet jesus Thillian has had something neutral to say about wow for once. Will wounders never cease.
Sweet jesus Thillian has had something neutral to say about wow for once. Will wounders never cease.
This wasn't neutral. This was positive. Cross-realm LFG is a huge step forward in terms of server technologies, something which all multiple-server MMO's should adopt. And to that, quest tracker, new dungeon, new raid... well I'm amazed actually.
REALITY CHECK
Sweet jesus Thillian has had something neutral to say about wow for once. Will wounders never cease.
This wasn't neutral. This was positive. Cross-realm LFG is a huge step forward in terms of server technologies, something which all multiple-server MMO's should adopt. And to that, quest tracker, new dungeon, new raid... well I'm amazed actually.
I was thinking about saying "positive" at first, but I thought neutral sounded better, lets not get ahead of ourselves:). One step at a time.
Sweet jesus Thillian has had something neutral to say about wow for once. Will wounders never cease.
This wasn't neutral. This was positive. Cross-realm LFG is a huge step forward in terms of server technologies, something which all multiple-server MMO's should adopt. And to that, quest tracker, new dungeon, new raid... well I'm amazed actually.
I was thinking about saying "positive" at first, but I thought neutral sounded better, lets not get ahead of ourselves:). One step at a time.
I understand, Neutral is a good way to go.
The problem with these "steps forward in terms of server technologies" is, well, this is something Blizzard has done. Do you know how to program? How would one program an MMO server to connect with another MMO server and get player info, and transfer them to what I can only assume is another, seperate, less powerful server that controls a number of instances with players in them?
Blizzard isn't going to discover gold, and then tell everyone where the gold is - otherwise everyone will have gold, and what little Blizzard has will be of less value. Multiple servers all adjusting and transfering player information between eachother, while communicating back to the players themselves, is an incredible technology in terms of MMOs, and whoever controls the spice controls the universe.
Or, erm, the dominant percentage of the potential player base.
I like the way Jews do things - in the family. Continually adding onto their parents' legacy... why can't that happen with other things? Makes me sad when NVidia and ATI just compete and compete, rather than acknoledging eachother's prowess at graphic card technology and making fantastic graphic card after graphic card.
*shrugs* works well enough, I suppose...
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
You all need to learn to spell.
There have always been world-pvp objectives since Vanilla wow. There were the towers in EPL, and then more towers and Halaa in BC, and now there's WG. All that aside, I can't wait until 3.3
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
I checked Wintergrasp yesterday again to see if things have changed (who knows) and it was as expected. Inbetween the instanced siege fights the place is pretty much deserted. There might be here and there somone buying some items at the vendor or picking some flowers but I havent seen any open pvp going on. Which is pretty much logic, if you are there to farm mats you wouldn't want to get yourself involved in pvp fights and if you would get into fights all the time while farming nodes or fishing you would stop soon going there.
Anyway as said the PVP event itself in Wintergrasp IS instanced and limited - so it is a (bigger) BG event, nothing like socalled open world pvp. On the other hand if you call the handful people wandering around the zone in between the pvp events and happily farming mats next to each other, open world pvp I have to lmao. Thats pretty poor open world pvp seriously.
As to raiding major cities and killing the other factions bosses......yawn. Nothing more than a degraded pve event as people mainly fight the guards/npcs. At least on my server people hardly care if a city is raided by the other faction - hardly anyone moves his ass from the AH or whatever he is doing to defend....thats todays situation unfortunately in wow.
I'm not interested in WoW but I want to say grats on a job nicely done, it's a lot of information WoW fans will be gratefull for.
Sorry but it wasnt me who claimed that wow players will get REAL open world pvp even on PVE servers.....which miserable failed of course as they had to limit the max number of players in the zone as soon as the event starts, because of the unbearable lag- and slideshow fest.
Ok even if the zone is not physically on a seperate instance server, the fact that you get a loading screen and ported out of the zone is FEELING and PLAYING like in a BG instance.....thats all that matters. You cant enter the zone if its full - so much for OPEN world pvp. The siege event could easily be on a separate instance server, nothing at all would change.
Is it so hard to accept that open world pvp on PVE servers failed ??? On pvp servers it was always possible to engage in pvp all around the game world., but wintergrasp wasnt implemented to introduce open world pvp on PVP servers, but on pve servers.
The debate really seems to be a moving target. First there is a vast shortage of raids. When it turns out WoTLK is only one raid short when 3.3 hits, then it's the quality of the raids. As that discussion progresses the target changes to PvP and the lack of Open World PvP. When multiple people correct the statement all of a sudden the Open World PvP discounted despite fitting the description. I mean, don't get me wrong, sucks if your server does not bother defending their cities, but that has not been my experience. There could be any number of factors for this which might include things like time of day, server pop, or direction the wind is blowing, but really, it's still Open World PvP whether you choose to be there for it or not.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
As always ... thanks for the updates Coffee!
1. There *is* a shortage of raids and their quality. There was Ulduar, EoE as new content and new zones. Naxx was rehashed, and ToC is laughable- 1 room with oversized, already-used models. VoA is a 10min zergfest for veterans and PUGs alike. Anything to disclaim from this?
2. Open world PvP in a literal sense is, well, pvp regardless of place or time. What do people *mean* when they say open world PvP? Spontaneity. People who whine about it don't know exactly how to express it. There is nothing 'open' about a scheduled event, once every 2hr30. There is nothing 'open' about knowing *where* to go at the drop of a dime for PvP. It is 'world' content, sure, but there's no soul to it. There's no vibrant factor. People use the term 'instanced' because it does 2 things: it isolates time, and place. BGs are literally 'instanced'- housed on seperate, physical servers, and external to any interactions with the 'world at large'. Newsflash? WG, despite being attached to the 'world at large', 'feels' 'instanced' because it meets all the criteria of what 'instanced' content is, not that of 'open world' content. It's like the heart: it's a red muscle in the body, but is categorized as a white muscle group. It's role and function meet all of the other grouping's criteria.
Typical forum chatter, however. People splitting hairs over literal word meanings and failing to understand the root or underbelly of what they're attempting to discuss.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
1. There *is* a shortage of raids and their quality. There was Ulduar, EoE as new content and new zones. Naxx was rehashed, and ToC is laughable- 1 room with oversized, already-used models. VoA is a 10min zergfest for veterans and PUGs alike. Anything to disclaim from this?
2. Open world PvP in a literal sense is, well, pvp regardless of place or time. What do people *mean* when they say open world PvP? Spontaneity. People who whine about it don't know exactly how to express it. There is nothing 'open' about a scheduled event, once every 2hr30. There is nothing 'open' about knowing *where* to go at the drop of a dime for PvP. It is 'world' content, sure, but there's no soul to it. There's no vibrant factor. People use the term 'instanced' because it does 2 things: it isolates time, and place. BGs are literally 'instanced'- housed on seperate, physical servers, and external to any interactions with the 'world at large'. Newsflash? WG, despite being attached to the 'world at large', 'feels' 'instanced' because it meets all the criteria of what 'instanced' content is, not that of 'open world' content. It's like the heart: it's a red muscle in the body, but is categorized as a white muscle group. It's role and function meet all of the other grouping's criteria.
Typical forum chatter, however. People splitting hairs over literal word meanings and failing to understand the root or underbelly of what they're attempting to discuss.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that if Blizzard release a new raid dungeon every month that 95% of the playerbase wouldn't be able to keep up. So why would they do that?
There has already been ample reply to #1. I'll add to it that ToC was not added alone, but instead was added with the tournament grounds that include various quests. There was also a "building" event to help establish the tournament (akin to the AQ war effort for example). So, as stated earlier, quality is subjective and an endless argument that noone can win. Quantity, well, WotLK has one less raid when 3.3 hits. Not a huge variation in my opinion.
As to the second point, PvP servers, by definition, have open world pvp. It can happen anywhere and at any time. PvE servers have a different rule set to accomodate players who don't want spontaneous PvP. So it seems there is no argument here as there is a ruleset that accomodates exactly what you are talking about. Is your complaint that WG provides an external motivation for players to gather together and fight it out? I'm not really sure how that is a bad thing on a PvE or PvP server. I mean, random skirmishes are fun and all, but fighting for a continent wide buff and access to a raid instance are nice perks.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I'm thankful I will never have to worry about trying to acquire that gear. All the tier sets past tier 2 have looked horrible imo. I mean with few exceptions
These new ones look pretty bad to me (except the warrior one).
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.