Great article, Scott and thank you for writing it.
I'm really glad to hear that NCSoft is -finally- taking a stand on RMT, which seems to be (at least from the sound of it) on level with Square-Enix's "RMT Task Force" for FFXI and eventually FFXIV. The Task Force has done a great job of bringing RMT under control in FFXI, within only a few months of it being introduced,and it continues to help keep that game's economy under control. It's encouraging to see that NCSoft seems to be taking it far more seriously.
Has it eliminated RMT completely? Nope. It never will... but it's driven a few smaller RMT companies from the game and has put a dent in the remaining ones' efforts.
I believe the RMT problem has grown to the point where it can't be thrown in as part of a GM's routine work. It needs serious attention from a dedicated team.
I'm also glad you gave a bit of insight to some of the activities that take place in support of RMT (account theft, keylogging, etc). There are people out there who believe and will insist that buying in-game gold, or items, or power-leveling services, etc. from a 3rd party company is perfectly safe, that there are no dangers in it and that people who complain are just whining. As you've pointed out, by purchasing from these companies, they are supporting the very activities you present in your article, all of which go above and beyond their immediate effect on a game's economy - which they most definitely have.
So... Thanks again for the article. The best of luck at NC in getting their anti-RMT team up and running. I look forward to seeing the results in the coming months once it's put into effect.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Sir, You CLEARLY look at he the problem from a (3rd party) developers point of view. If you EVER had even been close to a real RMT group, in-game, playing with them, hacking with them, exploiting with them, talking to gm's with them, you wouldn't have made some --assumptions-- you made, never ever. About enraging. Whatever your may have exprieced, your 100% claim doesn't fly. We're sorry. GMs got banned before as well, you know. But I guess you still miss that experience. Probably always will as well. The first paragraph was great. Thanks
So you go to the effort of creating a nub account and post this message implying you were part of a gold farming group that was organized or sponsored by the developers of the game yet provide nothing but innuendo and vague statements. Is there a chance that some small company or someone within a company might have gotten involved in doing something along these lines? Sure (can YOU say Eve Online scandals?), but I believe his post while not specifically stating is that in his experience any serious company operating a MMO as a business has not gotten involved in that sort of crap as part of their business plan. There is no more way to stop a bad GM from taking advantage of their position than there is to stop a bad employee from stealing from their company. All you can do is pay attention and don't assume that everyone is always honest.
Feel free to provide names, dates and specifics as it would interesting to know more about how such things go on but not much point to your post to be honest.
I'll say the same thing I do to all of these threads, blame the fellow players.
If sad little players didn't feel the need to buy gold so they could be the uberest in the game, then there wouldn't be a market for gold farmers and none of us would have these issues.
Do us all a favor and STOP BEING LAZY AND BUYING GOLD.
Decent article, but I liked the link to 'how to stop gold farming' article better. I like the idea of capitalism. I will not play a game that I can't run multiple accounts. I'm not rich but I decided I like gaming enough to spend the cash on another account. This generally puts me ahead of the curve a decent amount in how much in game cash I can make, but sometimes I just don't care to put the effort in. And this is where I feel all the hate from gold farmers come from. People feel that spending ten hours of their time in game farming gold is somehow more noble than me spending ten hours at my job and then spending a fraction of that real money for the same amount of gold. What these people seem to be missing is that an MMO is not real life. Real life is what matters. It ends up looking like jealousy towards someone who values real life above online life. And if I can put eight hours of my life towards getting my rent paid AND get the same amount of gold as you, I have to in my mind. Its about prioritizing your time. What everyone seems more than happy to gloss over is the fact that the gold buyers got that money somewhere. Usually at a job that advances the life that matters, real life while also advancing their game life. Just because you value game life over real life doesn't make it more noble its just a different prioritization of your time.
To the guy above, you are absolutely right, breaking my back working a job is infinitely more lazy behavior than sitting at my desk not moving for 10 hours...
I don't feel the need to purchase cash or items in a game as I like to be self-sufficient. In most games I will have a couple of accounts and a number of alts on each one. I like to try and create alts of different classes and if there is crafting then crafters. As I level my main I collect and keep most things and feed them to my alts and crafters either as upgrades or materials. As the materials flow in the crafters can make things for my main and for the other alts and generally while I may not have the absolute best items in any specific category I can normally have pretty good stuff across the board and I have the pleasure of knowing that I made and earned it all.
But, I can understand why people might want to find a quicker or easier way to get what they want. Do you all remember the girl that advertised a "Get a mount for buying a mount" deal that she supposedly consumated?
1.) No trading between characters/accounts at all. You sell or give your item (acquired by crafting or looting) to an NPC or an NPC auction house and they resell it to another player at a fixed rate(or variable based on in game availablity of the item at the time of sale) - and then send you back the money. 2.) Force antivirus on the client - same as business VPN solutions - if your not running AV or it is not up to date, then you fail the logon. 3.) Run your own scan after the AV check - looking for keyloggers or IP/MAC spoofing software on the client. - Do this in the open - not hiding it from the client. 4.) Ban people caught in RMT based on IP/MAC/credit card information. 5.) Enforce password complexity.
For starters...
Your number 1 is 1/2 right. There should not be any " currency based " trading between characters. Let people barter with items, but do not let currency flow directly between characters.
I do think there is a much easier way than adding " in game " security. Take away the " anonymity " when players create an account. Make players use SSNs and phone numbers when creating accounts, then contact the account owner that their information is being used. Technology is there and developers should learn to use it.
Sir, You CLEARLY look at he the problem from a (3rd party) developers point of view. If you EVER had even been close to a real RMT group, in-game, playing with them, hacking with them, exploiting with them, talking to gm's with them, you wouldn't have made some --assumptions-- you made, never ever. About enraging. Whatever your may have exprieced, your 100% claim doesn't fly. We're sorry. GMs got banned before as well, you know. But I guess you still miss that experience. Probably always will as well. The first paragraph was great. Thanks
Is there a chance that some small company or someone within a company might have gotten involved in doing something along these lines? Sure (can YOU say Eve Online scandals?)
I dont undestand why you brought eve to this .Eve online scandal was one Dev gave some tech2 blueprints to his own alliance ,it has nothing to do with RMT
1.) No trading between characters/accounts at all. You sell or give your item (acquired by crafting or looting) to an NPC or an NPC auction house and they resell it to another player at a fixed rate(or variable based on in game availablity of the item at the time of sale) - and then send you back the money.
As I wrote in an article I linked, the F2P game I was working on at NCsoft had specifically that feature (blind auctions). We were also considering allowing for some dual-currency model involving RMT (similar to how Puzzle Pirates handles it) and having the for-pay to earned-in-game transactions between players handled via blind auction, so that players themselves would assign a floating value to the in-game currency.
It was an ambitious plan and I'm not at all sure it would have survived into implementation, but plenty of folks including myself are thinking in those terms.
Originally posted by dterry
2.) Force antivirus on the client - same as business VPN solutions - if your not running AV or it is not up to date, then you fail the logon.
Windows tends to not recognize the AV software I use... I can only imagine the support headaches if game companies had to try the same.
Originally posted by dterry
4.) Ban people caught in RMT based on IP/MAC/credit card information.
CC information is already used to detect and remove banned accounts in many instances (not all). IP addresses are too prone to false positives to provide any real identification beyond the most basic.
Originally posted by Mirandel
Ncsoft does something like this but presence of the same bots for days (and on the same spots) sais otherwise.
Yep. Leaving lawbreakers out in the open for everyone to see is a big problem. It's the "broken windows" theory of law enforcement - as long as you see blatant decay and disdain for order, you'll continue to encourage a culture of impunity.
Originally posted by xTFV
If you EVER had even been close to a real RMT group, in-game, playing with them, hacking with them, exploiting with them, talking to gm's with them, you wouldn't have made some --assumptions-- you made, never ever. About enraging. Whatever your may have exprieced, your 100% claim doesn't fly. We're sorry. GMs got banned before as well, you know.
But I guess you still miss that experience. Probably always will as well.
Not sure what exactly you're trying to imply, but I have first-hand knowledge of CSRs who have been fired for working with gold farmers and exploiters, and every MMO developer's policy is to fire any CSR caught in such shenanigans immediately. Does this mean some do anyway? Of course. Blizzard has thousands and thousands of CSRs (just as an example) and the laws of averages dictate some will be ill-behaved. But game companies keep logs and track CSR actions specifically to detect and remove such bad actors.
But when I mentioned being enraged by such a "MMO companies are in collusion with gold farmers" question, I assure you, I know my own feelings on the subject well and need to make no assumptions.
Originally posted by Shava
This is a solved problem. SOE and others have papers discussing how to implement it out on the open web.
Got a link? I'd be interested in reading that.
Originally posted by hogscraper
Decent article, but I liked the link to 'how to stop gold farming' article better.
Gold Farmers are a business. So, how to you put a business out of business? You make it unprofitable.
How do you do that?
Well, clearly there are players prepared to use this 'service' (otherwise they wouldn't exist) so give them what they want.
You've all seen the ads on TV "If you see a better offer...we'll beat it!"?
How about simply saying to your players - if you see a genuine goldfarmer offer and send it to us (link or text report etc) we will beat it by 5%!
Have games that aren't 'bot friendly'.
Design games so that gold isn't everything. Maybe concentrate on giving players bonuses for social interactions? (making sure it is not bot friendly!)
Restrict Gold Farmer accounts - don't ban them. Limit chat. Limit trade. Contact the CC company and make it clear that account is still playable - a charge back is NOT justified.
But you want that Credit Card transaction to go through - Fraudulent Card? GOOD.
Credit Card companies have more power and international reach than many law enforcement agencies. (Simply by acting through local offices rather than having to go through international legal complications).
Who cares if the Credit Card Companies are unhappy? That is their problem. That's why they charge extortionate fees. If their security is not up to a sufficient standard then how is that an MMO companies problem? That's an issue for them.
Account theft is more difficult - but you touch on the solution by mentioning 'keyloggers' - perhaps introducing something within the login procedure that does not require key presses?
The interesting thing for me is I am currently playing 4 different MMOs and none of them have a problem with Goldfarmers.
1 has no gold.
1 has a low population but is not very bot friendly anyway - and it relies more on skill than just gear.
2 are F2P games - so it is the Devs who are the Goldfarmers.
I guess I just don't play Goldfarmer friendly games?
I'll say the same thing I do to all of these threads, blame the fellow players.
If sad little players didn't feel the need to buy gold so they could be the uberest in the game, then there wouldn't be a market for gold farmers and none of us would have these issues.
Do us all a favor and STOP BEING LAZY AND BUYING GOLD.
No. CCP is ok with me buying ISK with game time cards.
Interesting... Every Hack, Junkie, Addict & Low-life in the world has the ability to ''rationilize" their immoral behavior to make it seem acceptable to the rest of the moral community. Because I play a game "just to enjoy" the game somehow makes me inferior to you is ridiculous. Your Noble position of preferring to spend your time in Real Life rather than Game-Life is utter crap. Basically you are an instant-gratification person & will do, say, whatever to appear superior to other people who live or play by the rules. And... if you do it in-game then guess what??? You do it in real life too. Enjoy your fake life, in-game & out.
Originally posted by Gyrus But you want that Credit Card transaction to go through - Fraudulent Card? GOOD. Credit Card companies have more power and international reach than many law enforcement agencies. (Simply by acting through local offices rather than having to go through international legal complications). Who cares if the Credit Card Companies are unhappy? That is their problem. That's why they charge extortionate fees. If their security is not up to a sufficient standard then how is that an MMO companies problem? That's an issue for them.
Most of the fees for credit card fraud (instant chargebacks, service fees, etc) are charged to the MMO provider, not the credit card company.
At this time, I believe the RMT problem has to be incorporated and solved at basic game design level. Its not something you can viably battle through customer service anymore, it got too big and too professional.
I agree with this. If you are banning gold spammers in-game it is already too late.
Lum didn't mention it, but another way that it is alleged gold farmers get into MMOs is through key generators. Once they crack the key generation system, it isn't difficult to pull out free, full functioning account keys.
Ultimately I think that unless you want to make the MMO economy the central star feature of the game, it needs to be sidelined. Either in-game currency needs to be worthless - CoH/V had no real gold seller involvement until after the auction houses were implemented because pretty much everything was available at a fixed cost and inf was easy to come by, plus no uber-rare loot - or it needs to be sold through official channels (and again, no auction house!). You can't half-do an economy in a MMO - constant inflation of prices is like beautiful music to gold sellers.
Decent article, but I liked the link to 'how to stop gold farming' article better. I like the idea of capitalism. I will not play a game that I can't run multiple accounts. I'm not rich but I decided I like gaming enough to spend the cash on another account. This generally puts me ahead of the curve a decent amount in how much in game cash I can make, but sometimes I just don't care to put the effort in. And this is where I feel all the hate from gold farmers come from. People feel that spending ten hours of their time in game farming gold is somehow more noble than me spending ten hours at my job and then spending a fraction of that real money for the same amount of gold. What these people seem to be missing is that an MMO is not real life. Real life is what matters. It ends up looking like jealousy towards someone who values real life above online life. And if I can put eight hours of my life towards getting my rent paid AND get the same amount of gold as you, I have to in my mind. Its about prioritizing your time. What everyone seems more than happy to gloss over is the fact that the gold buyers got that money somewhere. Usually at a job that advances the life that matters, real life while also advancing their game life. Just because you value game life over real life doesn't make it more noble its just a different prioritization of your time. To the guy above, you are absolutely right, breaking my back working a job is infinitely more lazy behavior than sitting at my desk not moving for 10 hours...
It never ceases to amaze me how people can and will justify absolutely any behavior and then project all sorts of evil motives on the people who point out that they're acting unethically.
People who buy gold are no different from people who buy bowling trophies and get their names etched on them, or people who get mail-order diplomas from non-existent schools. They're people who want to claim achievements that they have not earned, and, at the heart of it, the root of all evil is the desire for the unearned.
The issue isn't that you value "real life" over "game life". The issue is that you want the rewards of playing the game without, y'know, playing the game. You want an "I win!" button. And, frankly, I do not believe people have different ethical systems for different parts of their life -- just, perhaps, different fears about the consequences. The man who wants items in a game he did not earn probably also wants real-world money or power he did not earn -- he is just (possibly) more afraid of going to prison if he's caught than he is of getting his account cancelled. (But, if he is caught, he will probably claim he's being harassed, that it's no fair he was expected to work for money when other people got a trust fund inheritance, that everyone does it and if he didn't, he'd be left behind, etc. )
I mean, let's face it: Every game I can think of has an EULA banning RMT. That's a legal contract you, as a consenting adult, agreed to -- and you have chosen to break it. While this is unlikely to actually result in any penalty other than an account ban, the fact is, you gave your word, you agreed of your own free will to abide by a contract, and then you broke that promise, apparently with no guilt and with much pride. It's difficult for me to consider anything an oathbreaker says as useful or honest. I don't know what you do for a living, but I seriously doubt you work nearly as hard as you claim. By your own logic, if you can manage to goof off for eight hours but still collect the same pay as someone who works hard, you *must* do so. It's about prioritizing your time, right? If you get eight hours pay for working hard, and the same eight hours pay for hardly working (as it were), only a fool would do the former rather than the latter, right? Any of your coworkers who think you're a lazy parasite are just "jealous" and only WISH they were as clever as you.
Like the saying goes, "Character is who you are in the dark." It's how you act when you are unlikely to suffer any penalty that determines what kind of a person you are.
But you want that Credit Card transaction to go through - Fraudulent Card? GOOD.
Credit Card companies have more power and international reach than many law enforcement agencies. (Simply by acting through local offices rather than having to go through international legal complications).
Who cares if the Credit Card Companies are unhappy? That is their problem. That's why they charge extortionate fees. If their security is not up to a sufficient standard then how is that an MMO companies problem? That's an issue for them.
Most of the fees for credit card fraud (instant chargebacks, service fees, etc) are charged to the MMO provider, not the credit card company.
I just spoke to my credit card company about this to confirm how it works and this is my understanding.
If a Credit Card User uses a credit card (valid or fraudulent) to purchase a product / service and that service IS provided then the Credit Card User may NOT ask for a charge back - unless there is some wrong doing on the part of the merchant (you bill for services that were not requested or provided).
In the event a Credit Card User asks for a charge back then an 'investigation' is made (the CC Company will contact the merchant) and a charge back will only be made if / when it is confirmed that the merchant did not provide the goods or billed incorrectly.
The merchant should face no fees if they provided the product or service and billed correctly.
In the event a Fraudulent (Stolen) Credit Card is used then the merchant does have some responsibility up front to take reasonable steps to ensure that the Credit Card is Valid and not Stolen. Having done that, the merchant can then let the transaction proceed.
If / when it turns out the card is not valid there will be an investigation. If it is found that the merchant took all reasonale steps to detect fraudulent cards then the merchant is not at fault and the merchant will not be charged a fee.
Other than that there are the standard fees charged by all CC Companies to allow you to use their service.
If an MMO company (the merchant) accepts a Credit Card payment and then bans that account prior to the end of the billing cycle then yes, the MMO Company (the merchant) has failed to provide the service.
So, in that case, yes the customer (even a goldfarmer) is entitled to their money back!
In that case, yes, the MMO company would get hit by a fee - because the MMO company did the wrong thing.
That's why I say don't close their accounts.
That way when the CC Company calls and says "Our Customer Mr Isel Gold, card number 4557123456789012 is requesting a chargeback." The MMO Company can say - "Mr Gold's account is still open. Please see our records."
If Fraudulent Cards are used then all the MMO company needs to do is to carry out the security checks required by the CC Company (which they should be doing anyway) and maintain records (which they should be doing anyway).
Maybe the law is different in some countries? (In which case avoid doing business there)
But Credit Card companies definitely do NOT act in favour of criminals to the detriment of legitimate merchants - if they did that the whole CC system would collapse and Credit Cards would not exist.
Okay people here's a simple solution to stop gold farmers and advertising spammers. STOP buying gold and power leveling. You (mainly players in American and Europe players) keep on complaining of how they lag you and it's unfair and end up making racist crap about the Chinese. If you didn't buy their gold and power leveling systems they would run out of business. If you haven't notice America is known to be the laziest country and Europe are very racist. So since most of you are lazy you buy their gold or power leveling package, and later end up complaining. And most of them aren't Chinese, some players sell gold to obtain the money to pay for their account (average of $15 a month) for a mmorpg game. And if you play European server they make racist joke constantly about CHINESE GOLD FARMERS. I saw a EU Lotro movie on youtube title as "Noob Chinese gold farmers" and on the video a was a group of noob french players attempting to so a quest, and the one filming is assuming they are failed gold farmers. Even check the comments and they all agreed with the player. More than 60% of players on a MMORPG game all brought gold and power levling before so don't go dissing the gold farmers if you brought their gold and power leveling before. SO IF YOU WANT THIS TO STOP, STOP BUYING THEIR GOLD AND POWER LEVELING PACKAGE AND THEY WILL RUN OUT OF BUSINESS. COMPLAINING, MAKING RACIST COMMENTS AND BLAMING THE GM FOR BEING LAZY IS NOT GOING TO STOP THESE GOLD FARMERS.
Gyrus - however, credit card authorisers WILL load charges on merchants who have high levels of fraud or chargebacks, presumably on the grounds that "there's no smoke without fire" and thoose high levels must be the result of negligence or unsavoury practices by the merchant.
There are actually TWO "credit card companies" involved - the card ISSUER is the company who gave you the card and send you a bill every month. The card AUTHORISER is the one that the merchant deals with - they provide the terminals in shops, process the transactions and then send the bill on to the appropriate card issuer. In most transactions, the two are different companies.
If there is one topic that should bring us all together it is this. Players, designers, corporate’s alike can see the damage this causes MMO’s. From our side just don’t buy guys, the reason prices are so high and you feel a need to buy gold is that others are doing this and driving up prices. This is one topic where I lay the blame firmly with us. Yes MMO’s could do more but we are the ones causing this.
Playing: World Of Warcraft Resting From: Nothing Retired: EQ2, CoH, Tabula Rasa, SWG, Warhammer, AoC Waiting For: SWTOR, APB Love(d): Tabula Rasa, SWG, World Of Warcraft, Age of Conan
Gyrus - however, credit card authorisers WILL load charges on merchants who have high levels of fraud or chargebacks, presumably on the grounds that "there's no smoke without fire" and thoose high levels must be the result of negligence or unsavoury practices by the merchant.
Actually - I think you will find that merchants who are left with the costs are those that have failed to correctly follow the Authorization steps as set out by the CC Company.
There are contracts in place (which are quite detailed and very specific) and the CC Companies cannot just 'suit themselves' on a day to day basis how they will handle disputes and disputed charges. There are actually TWO "credit card companies" involved - the card ISSUER is the company who gave you the card and send you a bill every month. The card AUTHORISER is the one that the merchant deals with - they provide the terminals in shops, process the transactions and then send the bill on to the appropriate card issuer. In most transactions, the two are different companies.
Definition: Credit Card Association (Which I have been referring to as the CC Company): An association of card-issuing banks such as Visa, MasterCard, Diners Club, American Express. that set terms for merchants, card-issuers, card users and everyone else along the chain.
So despite there being lots of little companies along the way the rules are consistent.
I'll say the same thing I do to all of these threads, blame the fellow players.
If sad little players didn't feel the need to buy gold so they could be the uberest in the game, then there wouldn't be a market for gold farmers and none of us would have these issues.
Do us all a favor and STOP BEING LAZY AND BUYING GOLD.
Agree and for this never buyed. I hate goldsellers for what they do to economy. But also paying 5000g for epic flying mount is madness. I'm not saying should be free .. must be some effort involved to get satisfaction ... but what is to much is simply to much! No mater economy and free market ... there should definitively be some max price that one can request. Seeing that 15.000 g for SINGLE piece of purple equipment I can not immagine how can anyone buy that only from gold he got from playing. And some buy nearly all. think some automated system should investigate all purchases above some limit. Or make some max value.
And when they catch some gold seller ... should ban ALL accounts that received any gold from gold seller without transaction with some really good eqiupment. I guess is something wrong if somebody purchased 1 healing potion paying for this 10.000 gold.
1.) No trading between characters/accounts at all. You sell or give your item (acquired by crafting or looting) to an NPC or an NPC auction house and they resell it to another player at a fixed rate(or variable based on in game availablity of the item at the time of sale) - and then send you back the money.
I've always thought this was the one and only solution to the whole RMT thing. Make money and items untradeable (except maybe to your own alts). Never get spammed by these slime again. Problem solved.
It's a hard core solution and takes a lot of guts - but the only REAL answer is to ban the buyers. As some one who works with computers all day everyday, I KNOW it is possible to track and monitor EVERY account. So, one strike a warning, two strikes, reset [as in back to zero], the account, three strikes permaban the account. And MAKE SURE EVERYONE IN GAME KNOWS IT. 90% of the players I know in Aion [at least Elyos, I've not played as Asmo] play the game straight up. That said, it is demoralizing to have to race bots to quest mobs - repeatedly [see Heiron]. To put up with "hey hey hey" from xcvfgcg a gold selling bot set up in the Hall of Prosperity in Sanctum... advertising where to get the cheapest ki. And watch as the price of critical mat slowly climbs as the bots reduce availability and watch as the price of gear made from those mats climbs and watch as the general price increase + gold buyers results in a fractured economy and watch as players - real players, not the casual player, leave in 1000s. You mentioned that you work for NCSoft. Rightly or wrongly, they have the worst reputation in the botting, rmt and gold selling. [L2 anyone?] After waiting 2 years for Aion, I am less than three months from cancelling my account. The gold buyers are enabling the bots, the bots are ruining the game and NCSoft seemingly has no way of getting a handle on things. I would suggest they ban the buyers, create insta-ban for botters [if you abuse or misuse, then YOU get insta-banned]. And - gasp... sell ki in game themselves. Think... they are in the roll of the central bank and these bottom-dwelling, scum-sucking algae eating bots are pirates and parasites. It takes industrial sized cojones and a willingness to engage in some outside thinking. It's a certainty that if they don't, great game or not, Aion will fail. And speaking for one, I will NEVER play another NCSoft game again. I am paying premium price for this service, to find an apparent reluctance [no offense, you are one person, there are multiple servers] on the part of the company to address this in a meaningful, substantive way only reinforces the opinion that you mention, that the company *somehow* is profiting from the situation. I know that in my Legion, I am starting to see my senior officers logging in less frequently - and these are hard core players.... but when you have played fair and hard, and get in a fight with someone 15 levels under you but who has solid gold gear, armor and weps - someone who's character SCREAMS "I cheat" - meh.....
Urantia - BG - Valkyies, Israphel
Originally posted by Stradden
MMORPG.com Columnist Scott Jennings returns this week to talk about the gold farming problem in MMORPGs and addresses three of the most common myths about gold farming and how MMO companies react to them. A brief personal note: I’ve been hired (again) by NCsoft this week, to work as a developer and data analyst for their new Game Surveillance Unit. This CSI-sounding department is responsible for quashing botting and gold selling in their titles, some of which has been a bit of a problem of late. While this does introduce some potential biases in anything I might write here, I would hope that you, the reader would understand that I am already chock full of bias anyway, as would be anyone with strongly held opinions, and evaluate my writings accordingly. Especially when I write about something directly related to what I’m working on… say, gold farming? Gold farming and selling in MMORPGs (the commonly used term within the industry being “RMT”, which stands for “Real Money Trading”) is, it’s safe to say, fairly controversial. A few games such as Ultima Online and Second Life embrace the blurring between virtual and real cash, but most games prohibit it, and most players (especially the more hard-core) claim to despise it. Yet, much like any other vice, there still seems to be a market for it.
Comments
Great article, Scott and thank you for writing it.
I'm really glad to hear that NCSoft is -finally- taking a stand on RMT, which seems to be (at least from the sound of it) on level with Square-Enix's "RMT Task Force" for FFXI and eventually FFXIV. The Task Force has done a great job of bringing RMT under control in FFXI, within only a few months of it being introduced,and it continues to help keep that game's economy under control. It's encouraging to see that NCSoft seems to be taking it far more seriously.
Has it eliminated RMT completely? Nope. It never will... but it's driven a few smaller RMT companies from the game and has put a dent in the remaining ones' efforts.
I believe the RMT problem has grown to the point where it can't be thrown in as part of a GM's routine work. It needs serious attention from a dedicated team.
I'm also glad you gave a bit of insight to some of the activities that take place in support of RMT (account theft, keylogging, etc). There are people out there who believe and will insist that buying in-game gold, or items, or power-leveling services, etc. from a 3rd party company is perfectly safe, that there are no dangers in it and that people who complain are just whining. As you've pointed out, by purchasing from these companies, they are supporting the very activities you present in your article, all of which go above and beyond their immediate effect on a game's economy - which they most definitely have.
So... Thanks again for the article. The best of luck at NC in getting their anti-RMT team up and running. I look forward to seeing the results in the coming months once it's put into effect.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So you go to the effort of creating a nub account and post this message implying you were part of a gold farming group that was organized or sponsored by the developers of the game yet provide nothing but innuendo and vague statements. Is there a chance that some small company or someone within a company might have gotten involved in doing something along these lines? Sure (can YOU say Eve Online scandals?), but I believe his post while not specifically stating is that in his experience any serious company operating a MMO as a business has not gotten involved in that sort of crap as part of their business plan. There is no more way to stop a bad GM from taking advantage of their position than there is to stop a bad employee from stealing from their company. All you can do is pay attention and don't assume that everyone is always honest.
Feel free to provide names, dates and specifics as it would interesting to know more about how such things go on but not much point to your post to be honest.
I'll say the same thing I do to all of these threads, blame the fellow players.
If sad little players didn't feel the need to buy gold so they could be the uberest in the game, then there wouldn't be a market for gold farmers and none of us would have these issues.
Do us all a favor and STOP BEING LAZY AND BUYING GOLD.
Decent article, but I liked the link to 'how to stop gold farming' article better. I like the idea of capitalism. I will not play a game that I can't run multiple accounts. I'm not rich but I decided I like gaming enough to spend the cash on another account. This generally puts me ahead of the curve a decent amount in how much in game cash I can make, but sometimes I just don't care to put the effort in. And this is where I feel all the hate from gold farmers come from. People feel that spending ten hours of their time in game farming gold is somehow more noble than me spending ten hours at my job and then spending a fraction of that real money for the same amount of gold. What these people seem to be missing is that an MMO is not real life. Real life is what matters. It ends up looking like jealousy towards someone who values real life above online life. And if I can put eight hours of my life towards getting my rent paid AND get the same amount of gold as you, I have to in my mind. Its about prioritizing your time. What everyone seems more than happy to gloss over is the fact that the gold buyers got that money somewhere. Usually at a job that advances the life that matters, real life while also advancing their game life. Just because you value game life over real life doesn't make it more noble its just a different prioritization of your time.
To the guy above, you are absolutely right, breaking my back working a job is infinitely more lazy behavior than sitting at my desk not moving for 10 hours...
I don't feel the need to purchase cash or items in a game as I like to be self-sufficient. In most games I will have a couple of accounts and a number of alts on each one. I like to try and create alts of different classes and if there is crafting then crafters. As I level my main I collect and keep most things and feed them to my alts and crafters either as upgrades or materials. As the materials flow in the crafters can make things for my main and for the other alts and generally while I may not have the absolute best items in any specific category I can normally have pretty good stuff across the board and I have the pleasure of knowing that I made and earned it all.
But, I can understand why people might want to find a quicker or easier way to get what they want. Do you all remember the girl that advertised a "Get a mount for buying a mount" deal that she supposedly consumated?
Your number 1 is 1/2 right. There should not be any " currency based " trading between characters. Let people barter with items, but do not let currency flow directly between characters.
I do think there is a much easier way than adding " in game " security. Take away the " anonymity " when players create an account. Make players use SSNs and phone numbers when creating accounts, then contact the account owner that their information is being used. Technology is there and developers should learn to use it.
Is there a chance that some small company or someone within a company might have gotten involved in doing something along these lines? Sure (can YOU say Eve Online scandals?)
I dont undestand why you brought eve to this .Eve online scandal was one Dev gave some tech2 blueprints to his own alliance ,it has nothing to do with RMT
As I wrote in an article I linked, the F2P game I was working on at NCsoft had specifically that feature (blind auctions). We were also considering allowing for some dual-currency model involving RMT (similar to how Puzzle Pirates handles it) and having the for-pay to earned-in-game transactions between players handled via blind auction, so that players themselves would assign a floating value to the in-game currency.
It was an ambitious plan and I'm not at all sure it would have survived into implementation, but plenty of folks including myself are thinking in those terms.
Windows tends to not recognize the AV software I use... I can only imagine the support headaches if game companies had to try the same.
CC information is already used to detect and remove banned accounts in many instances (not all). IP addresses are too prone to false positives to provide any real identification beyond the most basic.
Yep. Leaving lawbreakers out in the open for everyone to see is a big problem. It's the "broken windows" theory of law enforcement - as long as you see blatant decay and disdain for order, you'll continue to encourage a culture of impunity.
Not sure what exactly you're trying to imply, but I have first-hand knowledge of CSRs who have been fired for working with gold farmers and exploiters, and every MMO developer's policy is to fire any CSR caught in such shenanigans immediately. Does this mean some do anyway? Of course. Blizzard has thousands and thousands of CSRs (just as an example) and the laws of averages dictate some will be ill-behaved. But game companies keep logs and track CSR actions specifically to detect and remove such bad actors.
But when I mentioned being enraged by such a "MMO companies are in collusion with gold farmers" question, I assure you, I know my own feelings on the subject well and need to make no assumptions.
Got a link? I'd be interested in reading that.
Well, I *did* write both
I guess I really don't get it?
To me - the answers are obvious
Gold Farmers are a business. So, how to you put a business out of business? You make it unprofitable.
How do you do that?
Well, clearly there are players prepared to use this 'service' (otherwise they wouldn't exist) so give them what they want.
You've all seen the ads on TV "If you see a better offer...we'll beat it!"?
How about simply saying to your players - if you see a genuine goldfarmer offer and send it to us (link or text report etc) we will beat it by 5%!
Have games that aren't 'bot friendly'.
Design games so that gold isn't everything. Maybe concentrate on giving players bonuses for social interactions? (making sure it is not bot friendly!)
Restrict Gold Farmer accounts - don't ban them. Limit chat. Limit trade. Contact the CC company and make it clear that account is still playable - a charge back is NOT justified.
But you want that Credit Card transaction to go through - Fraudulent Card? GOOD.
Credit Card companies have more power and international reach than many law enforcement agencies. (Simply by acting through local offices rather than having to go through international legal complications).
Who cares if the Credit Card Companies are unhappy? That is their problem. That's why they charge extortionate fees. If their security is not up to a sufficient standard then how is that an MMO companies problem? That's an issue for them.
Account theft is more difficult - but you touch on the solution by mentioning 'keyloggers' - perhaps introducing something within the login procedure that does not require key presses?
The interesting thing for me is I am currently playing 4 different MMOs and none of them have a problem with Goldfarmers.
1 has no gold.
1 has a low population but is not very bot friendly anyway - and it relies more on skill than just gear.
2 are F2P games - so it is the Devs who are the Goldfarmers.
I guess I just don't play Goldfarmer friendly games?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
No. CCP is ok with me buying ISK with game time cards.
STOP BEING A BUTTINSKY AND MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS
Interesting... Every Hack, Junkie, Addict & Low-life in the world has the ability to ''rationilize" their immoral behavior to make it seem acceptable to the rest of the moral community. Because I play a game "just to enjoy" the game somehow makes me inferior to you is ridiculous. Your Noble position of preferring to spend your time in Real Life rather than Game-Life is utter crap. Basically you are an instant-gratification person & will do, say, whatever to appear superior to other people who live or play by the rules. And... if you do it in-game then guess what??? You do it in real life too. Enjoy your fake life, in-game & out.
Most of the fees for credit card fraud (instant chargebacks, service fees, etc) are charged to the MMO provider, not the credit card company.
I agree with this. If you are banning gold spammers in-game it is already too late.
Lum didn't mention it, but another way that it is alleged gold farmers get into MMOs is through key generators. Once they crack the key generation system, it isn't difficult to pull out free, full functioning account keys.
Ultimately I think that unless you want to make the MMO economy the central star feature of the game, it needs to be sidelined. Either in-game currency needs to be worthless - CoH/V had no real gold seller involvement until after the auction houses were implemented because pretty much everything was available at a fixed cost and inf was easy to come by, plus no uber-rare loot - or it needs to be sold through official channels (and again, no auction house!). You can't half-do an economy in a MMO - constant inflation of prices is like beautiful music to gold sellers.
It never ceases to amaze me how people can and will justify absolutely any behavior and then project all sorts of evil motives on the people who point out that they're acting unethically.
People who buy gold are no different from people who buy bowling trophies and get their names etched on them, or people who get mail-order diplomas from non-existent schools. They're people who want to claim achievements that they have not earned, and, at the heart of it, the root of all evil is the desire for the unearned.
The issue isn't that you value "real life" over "game life". The issue is that you want the rewards of playing the game without, y'know, playing the game. You want an "I win!" button. And, frankly, I do not believe people have different ethical systems for different parts of their life -- just, perhaps, different fears about the consequences. The man who wants items in a game he did not earn probably also wants real-world money or power he did not earn -- he is just (possibly) more afraid of going to prison if he's caught than he is of getting his account cancelled. (But, if he is caught, he will probably claim he's being harassed, that it's no fair he was expected to work for money when other people got a trust fund inheritance, that everyone does it and if he didn't, he'd be left behind, etc. )
I mean, let's face it: Every game I can think of has an EULA banning RMT. That's a legal contract you, as a consenting adult, agreed to -- and you have chosen to break it. While this is unlikely to actually result in any penalty other than an account ban, the fact is, you gave your word, you agreed of your own free will to abide by a contract, and then you broke that promise, apparently with no guilt and with much pride. It's difficult for me to consider anything an oathbreaker says as useful or honest. I don't know what you do for a living, but I seriously doubt you work nearly as hard as you claim. By your own logic, if you can manage to goof off for eight hours but still collect the same pay as someone who works hard, you *must* do so. It's about prioritizing your time, right? If you get eight hours pay for working hard, and the same eight hours pay for hardly working (as it were), only a fool would do the former rather than the latter, right? Any of your coworkers who think you're a lazy parasite are just "jealous" and only WISH they were as clever as you.
Like the saying goes, "Character is who you are in the dark." It's how you act when you are unlikely to suffer any penalty that determines what kind of a person you are.
Most of the fees for credit card fraud (instant chargebacks, service fees, etc) are charged to the MMO provider, not the credit card company.
I just spoke to my credit card company about this to confirm how it works and this is my understanding.
If a Credit Card User uses a credit card (valid or fraudulent) to purchase a product / service and that service IS provided then the Credit Card User may NOT ask for a charge back - unless there is some wrong doing on the part of the merchant (you bill for services that were not requested or provided).
In the event a Credit Card User asks for a charge back then an 'investigation' is made (the CC Company will contact the merchant) and a charge back will only be made if / when it is confirmed that the merchant did not provide the goods or billed incorrectly.
The merchant should face no fees if they provided the product or service and billed correctly.
In the event a Fraudulent (Stolen) Credit Card is used then the merchant does have some responsibility up front to take reasonable steps to ensure that the Credit Card is Valid and not Stolen. Having done that, the merchant can then let the transaction proceed.
If / when it turns out the card is not valid there will be an investigation. If it is found that the merchant took all reasonale steps to detect fraudulent cards then the merchant is not at fault and the merchant will not be charged a fee.
Other than that there are the standard fees charged by all CC Companies to allow you to use their service.
If an MMO company (the merchant) accepts a Credit Card payment and then bans that account prior to the end of the billing cycle then yes, the MMO Company (the merchant) has failed to provide the service.
So, in that case, yes the customer (even a goldfarmer) is entitled to their money back!
In that case, yes, the MMO company would get hit by a fee - because the MMO company did the wrong thing.
That's why I say don't close their accounts.
That way when the CC Company calls and says "Our Customer Mr Isel Gold, card number 4557123456789012 is requesting a chargeback." The MMO Company can say - "Mr Gold's account is still open. Please see our records."
If Fraudulent Cards are used then all the MMO company needs to do is to carry out the security checks required by the CC Company (which they should be doing anyway) and maintain records (which they should be doing anyway).
Maybe the law is different in some countries? (In which case avoid doing business there)
But Credit Card companies definitely do NOT act in favour of criminals to the detriment of legitimate merchants - if they did that the whole CC system would collapse and Credit Cards would not exist.
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Okay people here's a simple solution to stop gold farmers and advertising spammers. STOP buying gold and power leveling. You (mainly players in American and Europe players) keep on complaining of how they lag you and it's unfair and end up making racist crap about the Chinese. If you didn't buy their gold and power leveling systems they would run out of business. If you haven't notice America is known to be the laziest country and Europe are very racist. So since most of you are lazy you buy their gold or power leveling package, and later end up complaining. And most of them aren't Chinese, some players sell gold to obtain the money to pay for their account (average of $15 a month) for a mmorpg game. And if you play European server they make racist joke constantly about CHINESE GOLD FARMERS. I saw a EU Lotro movie on youtube title as "Noob Chinese gold farmers" and on the video a was a group of noob french players attempting to so a quest, and the one filming is assuming they are failed gold farmers. Even check the comments and they all agreed with the player. More than 60% of players on a MMORPG game all brought gold and power levling before so don't go dissing the gold farmers if you brought their gold and power leveling before. SO IF YOU WANT THIS TO STOP, STOP BUYING THEIR GOLD AND POWER LEVELING PACKAGE AND THEY WILL RUN OUT OF BUSINESS. COMPLAINING, MAKING RACIST COMMENTS AND BLAMING THE GM FOR BEING LAZY IS NOT GOING TO STOP THESE GOLD FARMERS.
Gyrus - however, credit card authorisers WILL load charges on merchants who have high levels of fraud or chargebacks, presumably on the grounds that "there's no smoke without fire" and thoose high levels must be the result of negligence or unsavoury practices by the merchant.
There are actually TWO "credit card companies" involved - the card ISSUER is the company who gave you the card and send you a bill every month. The card AUTHORISER is the one that the merchant deals with - they provide the terminals in shops, process the transactions and then send the bill on to the appropriate card issuer. In most transactions, the two are different companies.
If there is one topic that should bring us all together it is this. Players, designers, corporate’s alike can see the damage this causes MMO’s. From our side just don’t buy guys, the reason prices are so high and you feel a need to buy gold is that others are doing this and driving up prices. This is one topic where I lay the blame firmly with us. Yes MMO’s could do more but we are the ones causing this.
Nice article.
Playing: World Of Warcraft
Resting From: Nothing
Retired: EQ2, CoH, Tabula Rasa, SWG, Warhammer, AoC
Waiting For: SWTOR, APB
Love(d): Tabula Rasa, SWG, World Of Warcraft, Age of Conan
Please tell me its Aion your working on you must be the first member of staff NCSoft has for this purpose because it not evident so far.
Looking forward to next weeks article. Its a issue rather close to me at the moment.
Interesting article. Good food for thought.
Ken
www.ActionMMORPG.com
One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
Agree and for this never buyed. I hate goldsellers for what they do to economy. But also paying 5000g for epic flying mount is madness. I'm not saying should be free .. must be some effort involved to get satisfaction ... but what is to much is simply to much! No mater economy and free market ... there should definitively be some max price that one can request. Seeing that 15.000 g for SINGLE piece of purple equipment I can not immagine how can anyone buy that only from gold he got from playing. And some buy nearly all. think some automated system should investigate all purchases above some limit. Or make some max value.
And when they catch some gold seller ... should ban ALL accounts that received any gold from gold seller without transaction with some really good eqiupment. I guess is something wrong if somebody purchased 1 healing potion paying for this 10.000 gold.
I've always thought this was the one and only solution to the whole RMT thing. Make money and items untradeable (except maybe to your own alts). Never get spammed by these slime again. Problem solved.
Read Jennings: Real Money, Real Problems.