Don't pay for additional pixels.

Rinna · November 2009

Free Realms, Wizard 101, Blizzards new store... all selling items for additional money over and above their monthly fee.

I don't subscribe to many asian games but I've heard that this type of gaming is the norm in Asia. You pay your monthly fee, then on top of that, you pay additional money for everything else. Items, Mounts, non combat fun pets, clothes etc... all cost additional money over and above the monthly fee.

Sony's Free Realms charges you for "Station Cash" so that you can buy the best in-game items. Wizard 101 has a "Crown" System... you buy crowns outside of your monthly fee for armor, mounts, weapons. Blizzards new store... the panda and KT pets... 10 bucks for each OUTSIDE the normal monthly fee. (Yes I know half of the panda purchase goes to a charity). You can even go further and look at Club Pogo's "gem system"... pay a monthly fee... oh but by the way, this subscription doesn't get you the best stuff... only a basic set of stuff... everything else is extra.

I would hate to see this become the trend for N. American gaming. Where out of greed, eventually we make it acceptable for gaming companies to not only charge us a monthly fee, but to bend us over every chance they get if we want the coolest, best, most fun "stuff" in game.

Don't pay for additional pixels - please. All gamers should band together to insure this practice doesn't become a trend. Start paying for out of game pixels now and tomorrow we'll have to pay for everything that is currently part of a "normal monthly subscription'.

Sovrath · November 2009

Originally posted by Rinna

Don't pay for additional pixels - please. All gamers should band together to insure this practice doesn't become a trend. Start paying for out of game pixels now and tomorrow we'll have to pay for everything that is currently part of a "normal monthly subscription'.

hmmm, sorry but I think I will if it is of value to me.

If a company offers a service that I want and it's cheap enough I'll buy it. Because I want it. And it depends on what it is. I have always said that I would pay for cosmetic items. Especially since things in LOTRO are so fugly. If they were to offer an armor set for 5 dollars that would change the look of my character I would do it in a heartbeat.

As far as what is part of the normal subscription you are going out on a limb and decreeing what is part of the normal subscription when clearly, anything offered by a company for a fee is not part of the normal subscription.

Besides, players already buy gold and characters. It's unfair that a game company has to deal with secondary parties making money off of them. But it does prove that people are willing to purchase things with real world cash.

strangepowers · November 2009

Its an very OLD saying ,

" A fool and his money are soon parted"

I can only imagine how this plays out when its not even your money to be spending ie. Mom or Dads Credit card.

decadre · November 2009

Originally posted by Rinna

...
I don't subscribe to many asian games but I've heard that this type of gaming is the norm in Asia.
...

I believe most MMOs in Asia use a Pay As You Go type of subscription model. This is akin to buying a cell phone with hours on it, and buying more hours when you run out of time.

Horusra · November 2009

Don't buy items...it makes kids with more time than money feel bad because they are no longer at the apex of their games.

Mrbloodworth · November 2009

Why do you care about what others do with their money, in games where what they buy has no impact on you playing the game.

Its a rhetorical question, that I know the answer to. but I would like to hear you're answer.

banthis · November 2009

Free Realms is like what 5 bucks a month IF you want some member benefits...otherwise what 80% of the game is completely free...so the fact they have a cash mall on the game really isn't out of line at all. Not to mention they dont' really sel any advantages unless your into the Card Game.

Honestly if games want to have a cash mall and its all fluff stuff like costumes and pets...I really could care less...my only concern is when its potions, armor etc since they give real in game advantages.

decadre · November 2009

Originally posted by Horusra

Don't buy items...it makes kids with more time than money feel bad because they are no longer at the apex of their games.

Exactly, especially with a lot of the more hardcore MMOs, it isn't risk-vs-reward, it's time-vs-reward.

Sovrath · November 2009

Originally posted by strangepower

Its an very OLD saying ,

" A fool and his money are soon parted"

I can only imagine how this plays out when its not even your money to be spending ie. Mom or Dads Credit card.

So if I went into your life I would see that every purchase that you made could be considered justifiable and logical? You don't buy cookies, even though they aren't good for you or spend a little more on the good beer?

I take umbrage at people telling me how to live my life. I suspect you would as well, no? However, to the point, I already have several retirment accounts and no debt so I feel that I can be free to spend my hard earned money on anything I desire. Thank you very much.

Spending a few dollars on an added character slot, the ability to change my character's looks or a cosmetic item is in the realm of "acceptable" for me.

dar_es_balat · November 2009

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Why do you care about what others do with their money, in games where what they buy has no impact on you playing the game.

Its a rhetorical question, that I know the answer to. but I would like to hear you're answer.

More often than not these items do actually have an impact on your playing. What happens with this pay-extra junk or pay-as-you-go gaming is those who bankroll the game end up having uber items, massively refined gear, and aggressive pets that actually turn their characters into little dieties.

But its just them, so why worry? Just ignore it. --- Sound like Im anticipating your thoughts yet?

Ive played these types of games. The natural progression is such an obsessive amount of corporate greed that soon corporations start making their uber items "LOTTERY" based, so you pay a cash shop prize for a chance to win this item... chances are not cumulative, so be prepared to start dropping $200, $300, or $500 to get that uber item you were looking for.

Yes, a fool and his money are soon parted. Excellent quote. Here's another:

"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."

The Pay as You Go and Pay for Extras model inevitably leads you down the path above, as corporations desire money more than they desire your happiness, and players desire to win more than they desire to cooperate.

Apham · November 2009

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Why do you care about what others do with their money, in games where what they buy has no impact on you playing the game.

Its a rhetorical question, that I know the answer to. but I would like to hear you're answer.

It is not rhetorical at all. He cares because he is worried about the trend of N.American gaming and how others spend their hard earned money dictates the future trend of how companies would expect additional sources of income on top of sub fees.

Ex:

Pointing out xbox live, console kiddies were willing to pay for the live service, when brought to the pc platform pc gamers were not because of great services which already existed such as steam and xfire which are free. Xbox live can be used without payment for pc now because pc gamers were not willing to spend money on it, while going strong with a sub fee for the console because those folks were willing to pay a sub fee.

Mrbloodworth · November 2009

Look up rhetorical brother.

Rinna · November 2009

Just like overspending on credit cards and greed in lending has pushed American banks into relying on the US Government for a bailout... I'd like to see people look past their own wallet and see what this could potentially do to the whole No. American gaming experience/community.

It's easy to say that "what I do with my money is up to me and none of your business" or to throw money at your kid so that he can have the best sword in Free Realms or the fastest mount in Wizard 101, or the cutest pets in WoW. I'd just like gamers to look past today and see the reprecussions of actions today and how they could effect their games tomorrow.

Maybe we need to have companies better explain what exactly is that "monthly subscription" paying for. The slow slip into paying for more and more and more as you go almost feels "bait and switch" to me. On the Wizard 101 forums, a parent was stating that their credit card was hit for $50 for a mount... that's more than almost a whole years subscription.

On the Aion boards, they're stating that "cosmetic surgery" tickets are bought for an additional fee in Asia... and converting that to a system that No. American gamers will swallow is what they're working on.

I believe game companies right now are testing the waters to see how adverse No. American gamers are to this type of pay structure and many of us are buying right into it. I just feel it's a trend in the making and I'd like to see it stop before it becomes the new normal.

Sovrath · November 2009

Originally posted by dar_es_balat

More often than not these items do actually have an impact on your playing. What happens with this pay-extra junk or pay-as-you-go gaming is those who bankroll the game end up having uber items, massively refined gear, and aggressive pets that actually turn their characters into little dieties.
But its just them, so why worry? Just ignore it. --- Sound like Im anticipating your thoughts yet?
Ive played these types of games. The natural progression is such an obsessive amount of corporate greed that soon corporations start making their uber items "LOTTERY" based, so you pay a cash shop prize for a chance to win this item... chances are not cumulative, so be prepared to start dropping $200, $300, or $500 to get that uber item you were looking for.
Yes, a fool and his money are soon parted. Excellent quote. Here's another:
"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
The Pay as You Go and Pay for Extras model inevitably leads you down the path above, as corporations desire money more than they desire your happiness.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where you've purchased "uber items". They could exist but it seems that the cash shops for western games are more about cosmetic items, vanity pets and quality of life items. Sony is the exception as they have those servers where players can sell to each other.

As far as pay as you go in other sectors, if you ever have purchased a movie from the premium list of movies on cable then you have already participated in the a la carte lifestyle.

Remember, when cable first came out the whole idea was that you wouldn't pay for commericals and pay one fee for everything. But people don't go up in arms that they have to pay for a premium movie rental nowadays.

strangepowers · November 2009

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by strangepower

Its an very OLD saying ,

" A fool and his money are soon parted"

I can only imagine how this plays out when its not even your money to be spending ie. Mom or Dads Credit card.

So if I went into your life I woudl see that every purchase that you made could be considered justifiable and logical?

I take umbrage at people telling me how to live my life. I suspect you would as well, no? However, to the point, I already have several retirment accounts and no debt so I feel that I can be free to spend my hard earned money on anything I desire. Thank you very much.

Spending a few dollars on an added character slot, the ability to change my character's looks or a cosmetic item is in the realm of "acceptable" for me.

1. Never stated I have not acted a fool before. Its a OLD saying that has proven to have much merit.

2. Nobody told you how to live your "lol" life.

3. I really don't know, but ill take a stab at calling you an outright "LIAR"

You really propose that an individual who has "SEVERAL" IRA's and is debit free, is going to be surfing the internet on an MMO site?

Several IRA's and Zero debt would be the earmark of a brilliant professional.

Not an angry gamer that has a severe case of imagined "umbrage"...What the hell is Umbrage"?

You can fool your online buddies but not me Mr. "SEVERAL IRA'S"

That's some funny shit.

Mrbloodworth · November 2009

Originally posted by Rinna

Just like overspending on credit cards and greed in lending has pushed American banks into relying on the US Government for a bailout... I'd like to see people look past their own wallet and see what this could potentially do to the whole No. American gaming experience/community.
It's easy to say that "what I do with my money is up to me and none of your business" or to throw money at your kid so that he can have the best sword in Free Realms or the fastest mount in Wizard 101, or the cutest pets in WoW. I'd just like gamers to look past today and see the reprecussions of actions today and how they could effect their games tomorrow.
Maybe we need to have companies better explain what exactly is that "monthly subscription" paying for. The slow slip into paying for more and more and more as you go almost feels "bait and switch" to me. On the Wizard 101 forums, a parent was stating that their credit card was hit for $50 for a mount... that's more than almost a whole years subscription.

Apham · November 2009

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Look up rhetorical brother.

Courtesy of Merriam-Webster's:

"1 a : of, relating to, or concerned with rhetoric b : employed for rhetorical effect; especially : asked merely for effect with no answer expected <a rhetorical question>"

Not expecting an answer but yet you know the answer to? I have provided an adequate answer to your question. Your turn to look up rhetorical.

dar_es_balat · November 2009

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by dar_es_balat

More often than not these items do actually have an impact on your playing. What happens with this pay-extra junk or pay-as-you-go gaming is those who bankroll the game end up having uber items, massively refined gear, and aggressive pets that actually turn their characters into little dieties.
But its just them, so why worry? Just ignore it. --- Sound like Im anticipating your thoughts yet?
Ive played these types of games. The natural progression is such an obsessive amount of corporate greed that soon corporations start making their uber items "LOTTERY" based, so you pay a cash shop prize for a chance to win this item... chances are not cumulative, so be prepared to start dropping $200, $300, or $500 to get that uber item you were looking for.
Yes, a fool and his money are soon parted. Excellent quote. Here's another:
"Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power."
The Pay as You Go and Pay for Extras model inevitably leads you down the path above, as corporations desire money more than they desire your happiness.

I'm not sure I've ever seen a game where you've purchased "uber items". They could exist but it seems that the cash shops for western games are more about cosmetic items, vanity pets and quality of life items. Sony is the exception as they have those servers where players can sell to each other.

As far as pay as you go in other sectors, if you ever have purchased a movie from the premium list of movies on cable then you have already participated in the a la carte lifestyle.

Remember, when cable first came out the whole idea was that you wouldn't pay for commericals and pay one fee for everything. But people don't go up in arms that they have to pay for a premium movie rental nowadays.

We are talking about MMO games and the impact of Pay for Extra services. MMO gaming is an active environment. Cable Television is a passive environment.

Please stick to the topic and avoid using straw man argument tactics to divert peoples attention away from points made.

Sovrath · November 2009

Originally posted by Rinna

Just like overspending on credit cards and greed in lending has pushed American banks into relying on the US Government for a bailout... I'd like to see people look past their own wallet and see what this could potentially do to the whole No. American gaming experience/community.
It's easy to say that "what I do with my money is up to me and none of your business" or to throw money at your kid so that he can have the best sword in Free Realms or the fastest mount in Wizard 101, or the cutest pets in WoW. I'd just like gamers to look past today and see the reprecussions of actions today and how they could effect their games tomorrow.
Maybe we need to have companies better explain what exactly is that "monthly subscription" paying for. The slow slip into paying for more and more and more as you go almost feels "bait and switch" to me. On the Wizard 101 forums, a parent was stating that their credit card was hit for $50 for a mount... that's more than almost a whole years subscription.

that is that parent's fault. If I would have taken my mother's credit card and charged 50 dollars I think I would not have seen the light of day for severaaaal. years. And I would have been put to work to pay it all back AND would have been grounded severely.

And again, I do mention the "what I do with my money is my own business" because I have never met a person who hasn't spent their money on something that I didn't find ridiculous or something that leaned toward personal preference as opposed to a must have item.

Good liquor? Other than beer I think it's a waste.

Do you own your own boat? Premium Car? Top of the line computer? Expensive suit? Paying for more than one video game subscription? Large flat screen TV?

I'm sure that every person on this forum has purchased and will purchase something that is considered ridiculous or unnecessary to someone. Yet you buy these things because you have worked and you find them of value.

Mrbloodworth · November 2009

Originally posted by dar_es_balat
We are talking about MMO games and the impact of Pay for Extra services. MMO gaming is an active environment. Cable Television is a passive environment.
Please stick to the topic and avoid using straw man argument tactics to divert peoples attention away from points made.

He posted no straw-man.

I bet I pay for channels you don't. Does this somehow demean all the time you spent watching the channels you have?

strangepowers · November 2009

Originally posted by dar_es_balat

Please stick to the topic and avoid using straw man argument tactics to divert peoples attention away from points made.

^^

This is a brilliant Corporate tactic that must of landed him all those IRA's.

nAAtimus · November 2009

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I bet I pay for channels you don't. Does this somehow demean all the time you spent watching the channels you have?

IF I CAN'T WATCH HBO NO ONE CAN!!!

Sovrath · November 2009

Originally posted by strangepower

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by strangepower

Its an very OLD saying ,

" A fool and his money are soon parted"

I can only imagine how this plays out when its not even your money to be spending ie. Mom or Dads Credit card.

So if I went into your life I woudl see that every purchase that you made could be considered justifiable and logical?

I take umbrage at people telling me how to live my life. I suspect you would as well, no? However, to the point, I already have several retirment accounts and no debt so I feel that I can be free to spend my hard earned money on anything I desire. Thank you very much.

Spending a few dollars on an added character slot, the ability to change my character's looks or a cosmetic item is in the realm of "acceptable" for me.

1. Never stated I have not acted a fool before. Its a OLD saying that has proven to have much merit.

2. Nobody told you how to live your "lol" life.

3. I really don't know, but ill take a stab at calling you an outright "LIAR"

You really propose that an individual who has "SEVERAL" IRA's and is debit free, is going to be surfing the internet on an MMO site?

Several IRA's and Zero debt would be the earmark of a brilliant professional.

Not an angry gamer that has a severe case of imagined "umbrage"...What the hell is Umbrage"?

You can fool your online buddies but not me Mr. "SEVERAL IRA'S"

That's some funny shit.

I have a Roth IRA, Mutual Fund (MSF Value Fund) and a Fidelity IRA. Why is that so hard to believe? I didn't say I was ready to retire but I have these things and contribute. I have no debt thank you very much.

So if I want to pay 10 bucks for a sporty in game hat I think I have the leeway to do so.

Sovrath · November 2009

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

Originally posted by dar_es_balat

We are talking about MMO games and the impact of Pay for Extra services. MMO gaming is an active environment. Cable Television is a passive environment.

Please stick to the topic and avoid using straw man argument tactics to divert peoples attention away from points made.

He posted no straw-man.

I bet I pay for channels you don't. Does this somehow demean all the time you spent watching the channels you have?

Exaclty, I don't see the straw man. Regardless of the environment they are both services where you pay extra for extra services.

strangepowers · November 2009

IRA's are worthless unless they ....um...have value. So your point is you maintained 3 low value accounts.

Gotta love that quantity as opposed to quality.

Sovrath · November 2009

Originally posted by strangepower

IRA's are worthless unless they ....um...have value. So your point is you maintained 3 low value accounts.
Gotta love that quantity as opposed to quality.

lol, no my point is I have 3 diversified accounts which I have invested a decent amount of money for my eventual retirement. After which I have no debt. Therefore what I do with my money since I have taken care of the important issues for living is my own business.

As opposed to someone who has a lot of debt, no eye on retirement and whose money flows out faster than it comes in. Who then spends that money on things that could be considered trivial like in game pets and outfits.

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