WoW's itself has done nothing but good things to the mmorpg world. It's all the developers that are trying to copy WoW's formula that are doing bad things.
This is very true. People for some reason got the idea that blizzard forced every developer after to stop making innovations and just copy what has been done.
Finally some common sense in regards to this idiotically OLD debate about WoW "damaging" the MMO industry.
That would be true if devs existed in a world where they had the resources and time to do whatever they wanted. In the real world, devs have publishers who have investors and they demand a return on their investment that is affected by the money shown by Blizzard to be hypothetically possible.
So when a dev says, "Hey, lets try this innovative idea!" there is an increased chance that some some bean-counter is going to say "Our research indicates that people want [insert WoW dynamic]." And the dev is denied.
Exactly, Wow didnt have any effect on the mmo genre it IS the mmo genre and everyone else is a crappy get rich quick copy. Dont get mad at Wow. If anything thank them for bringing you a genre you definately enjoyed wether you played wow or not. How else would all those crappy mmo's you guys love to play get funded and developed? Thanks be to Wow.
Originally posted by altairzq Originally posted by uquipu No WoW.... No money...
People with money [that don't know how to make MMORPGS] drool over WoW's revenue and are willing to throw money at a new [retarded] game.No money, no new [retarded] games.Simple really.
There you go.
Hmmm, i see what you did there.
Let's try an experiment, you put up 60 million of your hard earned dollars and let's see how conservative you get.
People with money [that don't know how to make MMORPGS] drool over WoW's revenue and are willing to throw money at a new [retarded] game. No money, no new [retarded] games. Simple really.
There you go.
Hmmm, i see what you did there.
Let's try an experiment, you put up 60 million of your hard earned dollars and let's see how conservative you get.
.
Exactly so. That is the negative impact. WoW's success encouraged people to invest, but due to the stakes, not actually take risks.
Wow killed MMO communities its all me me me now withvery little outside of guild interaction and no MMO trying to push social tools.
Not really Blizzard's or WoW's fault for finding a successful business strategy/game design. I think it is more the idiots who try to copy an immensely successful game rather than trying to find ways to be extremely innovative.
While WoW is a terrific game that I've played for 5 years, that unfortunately seems to be developing more flaws than making advances, I think its "efffect on the genre" has been terrible. Too many developers try to copy it and it results in it being really difficult to find another game. It also has really hurt single player RPGs on the PC market, as a side note.
1. I agree that the effects of WoW have been a negative, as a whole, for the MMO genre. The reasons have already been beaten to death, but mainly the "clone" factor.
2. I don't believe that Blizzard is to blame. I place that issue 40% on the developers of new games, and 60% on the players. Not necessarily players that frequent sites and forums like this one, but the general player base is largely to blame for a stagnant MMO market. Criticism without feedback, selfish tendencies within games, a general lack of objective analysis or awareness as to what it is that they actually enjoy in the MMO that they play, and an unwillingness to give new launches time before jumping ship are just a few of the "player" faults that hurt the genre. I've been drawn into that whirlwind of gamer anger before, and it leads to very little productivity.
3. I honestly don't think that the MMO market is fully saturated yet. Many people, especially on these forums, believe that the MMO genre has reached it's peak (in relation to volume of gamers that play MMOs). I would have to respectfully disagree with that notion. The gaming industry is a multi-billion dollar industry that appeals to a broad range of consumers. MMOs, even WoW, have a pretty tight demographic: mostly men, some women, mostly teens and young adults, few older/elder players, usually lower-middle class and above, and I'm just spitballing. Anyway, my point is, there's plenty of market out there 300 million+ citizens in the US alone and around 5-7 million play MMO (and perhaps I'm being generous there.) Plenty of room for unique games to expand within and without the WoW mold. Developers simply haven't been able to appeal to, and therefore capitalize, on that market yet - hence their 40% fault from point #2.
4. Reward is a huge driving factor behind any game. Reward doesn't have to always revolve around gear, but it usually does, and that's a shame. I do enjoy getting the new, leet gear, but without other rewards to strive for, that gear eventually feels pretty useless. It's part the developers job to create the other "reward" driven content for players to experience, and it's part the players job to use open ended design structures to create great communities full of events, contests, and general bragging-rights type of things. In WoW, and subsequently the many new games that have been released, I see developers attempting to make fun, scripted content (sometimes failing), but I see a real lack of incentive from developers and players to try and create a game that sustains itself without the need for a new expansion, encounter, or update every month. Games don't allow player freedom and imagination to help build, shape, and drive the content.
5. With everything I've stated that I believe is wrong with the genre today, I want to clarify that I love MMOs, have played and enjoyed many of them, and believe that WoW and some of the others that are going strong today are very solid games. It's pretty apparent that they aren't my ideal game, but I think they have many solid features that other games should definitely borrow, and evolve into their own.
6. I'm looking forward to the future of MMOs. WoW stands tall as the giant and since time crushes technology, it will eventually fall (or at least hunch pretty badly). At that point in time, a new generation of gamers will join with the old vets and the WoW nation and expand into many directions and produce a diverse and ever growing player base set on finding something new and exciting. At that point, I honestly think it'll be the MMO golden age. No giants ruling, but instead 5+ games with 2 million+ players. Options, choices, and freedom. It's may be 3, 6, or 9 years down the road, but it'll happen.
3. I honestly don't think that the MMO market is fully saturated yet. Many people, especially on these forums, believe that the MMO genre has reached it's peak (in relation to volume of gamers that play MMOs). I would have to respectfully disagree with that notion. The gaming industry is a multi-billion dollar industry that appeals to a broad range of consumers. MMOs, even WoW, have a pretty tight demographic: mostly men, some women, mostly teens and young adults, few older/elder players, usually lower-middle class and above, and I'm just spitballing. Anyway, my point is, there's plenty of market out there 300 million+ citizens in the US alone and around 5-7 million play MMO (and perhaps I'm being generous there.) Plenty of room for unique games to expand within and without the WoW mold. Developers simply haven't been able to appeal to, and therefore capitalize, on that market yet - hence their 40% fault from point #2.
I agree that WoW-like MMO game market is saturated, but yeah, I don't think the potential MMO market in general is saturated. Sadly, we get a lot of competition in the WoW-like MMO market and not much elsewhere. We get so many games where it seems like part of the thought process is "how can we make this a LITTLE different from WoW?" because they think that will make their game unique rather than blend in seemlessly into the background. Pretty awful.
I think it was an overall Negative effect. All the new people to the genre that were brought in will play WoW till it kicks the bucket and once it's done they will go back to their consoles and their FPS games.
Quite a few times I've talked to people who have picked up WoW as their first and only MMO and asked them what they plan to do once they get tired/bored of it and their response was usually somewhere along the lines of "I don't think I'll play any other MMO's".
WoW came around at the right time, with the right financial backing to get it where it is now. Once it's gone I wouldn't at all be surprised if at least 50% of it's fanbase leaves the genre all together.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
WoW's effect on the MMORPG scene has been negative, IMO.
It's not like Blizzard went out to do so. It's just been an effect of it's immense success. There is one thing that WoW did, and that was to bring more people into the scene, which validated MMORPGs as a great potential (recurring) money maker. Other than that, it's been bad with the MMO scene ever since it became King Of The Mountain. The biggest reason why?
It killed diversity in MMORPGs.
Mimicry is the biggest form of flattery they say. Blizzard before WoW enjoyed already tremendous reputation in the PC gaming scene, thanks to the likes of the Diablo, Starcraft, and Warcraft franchises. But with WoW's success, other developers and companies were of course amazed, and were figuring out Blizzard's formula to success. The first main thing is outright copying WoW's gameplay. Some new MMOs were developed the ground up to play like WoW. Maybe a couple (at least one did), even drastically changed itself to be like WoW *cough*SWG*cough*. What this lead to is the current crop of MMOs we have had for a few years now that essentially try to be like WoW in gameplay. Diversity in gameplay went out the window, since systems like Sandbox / Skill-based were dropped immediately for development in favor of WoW's now familiar system. Very, very few MMOs were developed that dared to be different. Everyone was chasing the $$$ that Blizzard acquired. I got sick and tired reading previews about upcoming MMOs when the writer says something along the lines of, "if you're familiar with WoW, this game should be quite familiar to you already."
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
WoW may have brought millions of new people to the MMORPG genre, but the vast majority of these are people that the genre could well have done without! Since WoW's release, MMO communities have went completely down the toilet. People used to generally be friendly and helpfull, now nearly everyone you meet is a killstealing, ninjalooting twat with absolutely no manners or social skills. I am currenty subscribed to two MMO's, but will not be renewing either subscription. In fact since picking up Dragon Age: Origins a couple of weeks ago, I haven't had the desire to log into either of my MMO's. The genre is pretty much dead to me now. I'll get SW:TOR when it releases, but I'll probably treat it more as a single-player RPG and group for certain content when I feel like it. As for the 'WoW has raised the standards' argument, I would beg to differ. Development Houses are still releasing half-finished, buggy MMO's and this will never change as long as people are stupid enough to buy them. Also, WoW did absolutely nothing new, it just copied previous Themepark MMO's and polished the content. Zero innovation whatsoever. I am, however, biased as I far prefer the UO sandbox/skillbased model for my MMO's rather than the oh-so-boring and overdone class/level themepark, raid-or-die trash that gets rammed down our throats! Although I do know that I'm in the minority in this way of thinking regards MMO design. So to sum up, for me, WoW was the first nail in the coffin of the MMO genre.
Comments
This is very true. People for some reason got the idea that blizzard forced every developer after to stop making innovations and just copy what has been done.
Finally some common sense in regards to this idiotically OLD debate about WoW "damaging" the MMO industry.
That would be true if devs existed in a world where they had the resources and time to do whatever they wanted. In the real world, devs have publishers who have investors and they demand a return on their investment that is affected by the money shown by Blizzard to be hypothetically possible.
So when a dev says, "Hey, lets try this innovative idea!" there is an increased chance that some some bean-counter is going to say "Our research indicates that people want [insert WoW dynamic]." And the dev is denied.
If one game had such an effect on the entire market that just shows how weak that market already, and still is.
No WoW....
No money...
People with money drool over WoW's revenue and are willing to throw money at a new game.
No money, no new games.
Simple really.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
^^^
Exactly, Wow didnt have any effect on the mmo genre it IS the mmo genre and everyone else is a crappy get rich quick copy. Dont get mad at Wow. If anything thank them for bringing you a genre you definately enjoyed wether you played wow or not. How else would all those crappy mmo's you guys love to play get funded and developed? Thanks be to Wow.
Wow did wonders for the MMO genre.
Wow killed MMO communities its all me me me now withvery little outside of guild interaction and no MMO trying to push social tools.
There you go.
I would say very positive. It helped PVE MMO and kept the West on the map in terms of MMO. I wouldn't want to have only Asian F2P games hehe.
There you go.
Hmmm, i see what you did there.
Let's try an experiment, you put up 60 million of your hard earned dollars and let's see how conservative you get.
.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
There you go.
Hmmm, i see what you did there.
Let's try an experiment, you put up 60 million of your hard earned dollars and let's see how conservative you get.
.
Exactly so. That is the negative impact. WoW's success encouraged people to invest, but due to the stakes, not actually take risks.
WoW has been hugely positive for the genre, especially in making it more mainstream and having more people understand MMO games.
Not really Blizzard's or WoW's fault for finding a successful business strategy/game design. I think it is more the idiots who try to copy an immensely successful game rather than trying to find ways to be extremely innovative.
While WoW is a terrific game that I've played for 5 years, that unfortunately seems to be developing more flaws than making advances, I think its "efffect on the genre" has been terrible. Too many developers try to copy it and it results in it being really difficult to find another game. It also has really hurt single player RPGs on the PC market, as a side note.
1. I agree that the effects of WoW have been a negative, as a whole, for the MMO genre. The reasons have already been beaten to death, but mainly the "clone" factor.
2. I don't believe that Blizzard is to blame. I place that issue 40% on the developers of new games, and 60% on the players. Not necessarily players that frequent sites and forums like this one, but the general player base is largely to blame for a stagnant MMO market. Criticism without feedback, selfish tendencies within games, a general lack of objective analysis or awareness as to what it is that they actually enjoy in the MMO that they play, and an unwillingness to give new launches time before jumping ship are just a few of the "player" faults that hurt the genre. I've been drawn into that whirlwind of gamer anger before, and it leads to very little productivity.
3. I honestly don't think that the MMO market is fully saturated yet. Many people, especially on these forums, believe that the MMO genre has reached it's peak (in relation to volume of gamers that play MMOs). I would have to respectfully disagree with that notion. The gaming industry is a multi-billion dollar industry that appeals to a broad range of consumers. MMOs, even WoW, have a pretty tight demographic: mostly men, some women, mostly teens and young adults, few older/elder players, usually lower-middle class and above, and I'm just spitballing. Anyway, my point is, there's plenty of market out there 300 million+ citizens in the US alone and around 5-7 million play MMO (and perhaps I'm being generous there.) Plenty of room for unique games to expand within and without the WoW mold. Developers simply haven't been able to appeal to, and therefore capitalize, on that market yet - hence their 40% fault from point #2.
4. Reward is a huge driving factor behind any game. Reward doesn't have to always revolve around gear, but it usually does, and that's a shame. I do enjoy getting the new, leet gear, but without other rewards to strive for, that gear eventually feels pretty useless. It's part the developers job to create the other "reward" driven content for players to experience, and it's part the players job to use open ended design structures to create great communities full of events, contests, and general bragging-rights type of things. In WoW, and subsequently the many new games that have been released, I see developers attempting to make fun, scripted content (sometimes failing), but I see a real lack of incentive from developers and players to try and create a game that sustains itself without the need for a new expansion, encounter, or update every month. Games don't allow player freedom and imagination to help build, shape, and drive the content.
5. With everything I've stated that I believe is wrong with the genre today, I want to clarify that I love MMOs, have played and enjoyed many of them, and believe that WoW and some of the others that are going strong today are very solid games. It's pretty apparent that they aren't my ideal game, but I think they have many solid features that other games should definitely borrow, and evolve into their own.
6. I'm looking forward to the future of MMOs. WoW stands tall as the giant and since time crushes technology, it will eventually fall (or at least hunch pretty badly). At that point in time, a new generation of gamers will join with the old vets and the WoW nation and expand into many directions and produce a diverse and ever growing player base set on finding something new and exciting. At that point, I honestly think it'll be the MMO golden age. No giants ruling, but instead 5+ games with 2 million+ players. Options, choices, and freedom. It's may be 3, 6, or 9 years down the road, but it'll happen.
Too long-winded for a reply, I guess.
I agree that WoW-like MMO game market is saturated, but yeah, I don't think the potential MMO market in general is saturated. Sadly, we get a lot of competition in the WoW-like MMO market and not much elsewhere. We get so many games where it seems like part of the thought process is "how can we make this a LITTLE different from WoW?" because they think that will make their game unique rather than blend in seemlessly into the background. Pretty awful.
Patience, young one. I may reply more later..for now....DINNER!
2 choices = fail. Who's to say weather or not it is positive or negative? it is what it is. What U got to compare it with?
I think it was an overall Negative effect. All the new people to the genre that were brought in will play WoW till it kicks the bucket and once it's done they will go back to their consoles and their FPS games.
Quite a few times I've talked to people who have picked up WoW as their first and only MMO and asked them what they plan to do once they get tired/bored of it and their response was usually somewhere along the lines of "I don't think I'll play any other MMO's".
WoW came around at the right time, with the right financial backing to get it where it is now. Once it's gone I wouldn't at all be surprised if at least 50% of it's fanbase leaves the genre all together.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
WoW's effect on the MMORPG scene has been negative, IMO.
It's not like Blizzard went out to do so. It's just been an effect of it's immense success. There is one thing that WoW did, and that was to bring more people into the scene, which validated MMORPGs as a great potential (recurring) money maker. Other than that, it's been bad with the MMO scene ever since it became King Of The Mountain. The biggest reason why?
It killed diversity in MMORPGs.
Mimicry is the biggest form of flattery they say. Blizzard before WoW enjoyed already tremendous reputation in the PC gaming scene, thanks to the likes of the Diablo, Starcraft, and Warcraft franchises. But with WoW's success, other developers and companies were of course amazed, and were figuring out Blizzard's formula to success. The first main thing is outright copying WoW's gameplay. Some new MMOs were developed the ground up to play like WoW. Maybe a couple (at least one did), even drastically changed itself to be like WoW *cough*SWG*cough*. What this lead to is the current crop of MMOs we have had for a few years now that essentially try to be like WoW in gameplay. Diversity in gameplay went out the window, since systems like Sandbox / Skill-based were dropped immediately for development in favor of WoW's now familiar system. Very, very few MMOs were developed that dared to be different. Everyone was chasing the $$$ that Blizzard acquired. I got sick and tired reading previews about upcoming MMOs when the writer says something along the lines of, "if you're familiar with WoW, this game should be quite familiar to you already."
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Perfectly stated.
Hey didnt we have a thread like this a few weeks ago?