Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
What if, WoW never came out, and a Sandbox game like UO was the Top MMORPG? Would people fuss over U
tro44_1
Member Posts: 1,819
What if there was no such thing as WoW and Warcraft,,,,, and UO(or other similar game) was the top selling MMO of all times.
And from that, we had tons of UO clones and such.
Do you think there Would as much flaming of UO sandbox clones, as there are today when it comes to WoW clones?
Comments
When you see people calling games "WoW Clones" that came out before WoW it pretty much sums up the answer to this question. Using the term "WoW Clone" says more about the person using it than it does to actually describe the game for all but a few games (who literally ripped off graphics and so on).
I answered "yes", but it depends on a lot of factors. First of all, the first popular "non-SB" MMORPG was EQ, not WoW. Secondly, IF most games today would be UO-clones, the market would still, most likely, be pretty niche, which would mean less over-saturation and actually more innovation, since devs would be willing to take risk, rather, than copy mindlessly, because publishers said so.
However, IF, and I mean, IF the market would get as big, as it is today AND people would produce mindless copies of other big SB game (most likely not UO), then yes, we would complain about it as well. Market needs variety, and both SB and themepark have their place under the sun.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
I don't believe it would have mattered. People are either content or not, you can only become content with a game if you learn to accept it's flaws. I think UO players have done just that, and so did I for EQ and so did many others for WoW. It takes time for a community to evolve like that. Newer MMO don't get that time, especially not F2P ones, people come in, complain and go out, the MMO don't have the time to become stable hehe.
I would agree, definitely an overused (and usually inappropriately used) term. Industries like video games evolve slower than most people want to think sometimes and its definitely a misperception. It's common for video games to take what already works out there, use it and improve upon it. It has been working this way the whole time since the beginning of video games actually. However, it seems like some people like to generalize certain features of the MMO a little too much hence perceiving it as just a copy of whats already out there (usually whatever is mainstream). Sure, if UO was the best, there will be people calling it UO clones and its really left up to the people whether or not they want to generalize the game enough to use such a term. It really shows either their ignorance or lack of perception. The arise of certain MMO snobbery these days also doesn't help the situation of calling things clones of each other either.
Of course they would! Or at least they should if they had any sense. A clone or anything means developers are taking the easy way out. They're refusing to think of new ideas or take risks and would rather keep shoveling the same crap out the door. This is unacceptable regardless of what game model it's following.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
What if questions are moot. It didn't happen that way so there is no sense in talking about it. It is a waste of time and effort.
If hypotheticallly wow wouldnt apear 2 things would happen.
1.A pite of wow pvpiers would join games like uo /sb/aoc. The big pve pite of wow players would rather scater to eq2 /Lotro/ddo.
2.Wow affected due to its sales numbers and success loads of p2p and f2p mmorpgs that came afterwards. So if Uo was the N1 mmorpg out there we would have by now more uo like mmorpgs. Surely the state of mmorpg scene would be diferrent. You would have more niche rpgs than themeparks out there.If you accept the fact that Uo was a game that focused on freedom and loads of choises build houses,unlimited almost progress on your character,exploration,free pvp,achive titles that actually meant something serious in the game,break in other houses steal their staff from their houses if you raised lockpick for example in high lvl,true interactivity and loads of other things Uo had and ont eh other hand see the restricted options wow has well i think gameplay would evolve alot more in mmorpg scenery since there would be made much more niche mmorpg's than there are now.
But all these are hypothetically ofc.
It's a good excercis for your gray matter and an interesting point to discuss.
What is moot is going into threads and simply posting, that the thread is moot, thus wasting your time.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Look at every other game industry. FPS, RTS, etc. Find me one that releases new ideas with almost every game. Guess what? You can't. This is the way the game industry works. It's not only acceptable, it should be expected. Now of course, there comes a time when some developers do think out of the box and release a different type of game; however, most of these looked good on paper but failed in practice. And there are some that bring new staples to the industry; for example, what Relic did for the RTS industry by adding such concepts as unit cover.
That's not always the case with the MMO industry, since there's really two different types of MMO: Sandbox and Themepark. While Themepark has been dominating, Sandbox is starting to make a comeback (see MO and Earthrise... and even some that are already out, like Runescape to an extent). This may seem like developers are finally "bringing new and refreshing ideas to the genre!" but, in reality, they're just going back to their roots.
Now, if UO was dominant and we had a bunch of sandboxes, then it'd be even better if a game like WoW came out now. Why? Because it'd be Themepark, and it'd be something different. Better? At the time, people would think so, simply because they're tired of the Sandbox model. I know that probably sounds hard to believe to hardcore Sandbox fans, but it's inevitable. Then in 5 years, say 2014 if WoW had released now, we'd probably be sick of it like we are now. Then we'd want something that's not quite Themepark but also not quite Sandbox. Personally, I think a hybrid model is the best course ahead. The guidelines (not quite restrictions) of a Themepark with the freedom and variety of a Sandbox placed in a smooth, aesthetically-pleasing package would be a great game.
Anyways, those are just my thoughts on the matter. Perhaps it's because I'm not really sick with the Themepark model. I may play WoW, and I may be getting sick of WoW, but that doesn't mean I'm crying out for a Sandbox (though MO and Earthrise have certainly caught my eye). I may think of both a Sandbox and a Themepark when I think of an MMO, but I bet you that companies only think of a Themepark: WoW. It's natural that they'd try to copy it to some extent (some games do so more than others).
Finally, I agree that the whole term is overused and used inaccurately most of the time. It's similar to WoW, yes, but perhaps we should look up "clone" in the dictionary before tossing it around.
The reason is an obvious no,because WOW is a copy of EQ,and nobody seemed to care.
People do not care about clones,they are just making excuses,thinking of lame reasons to hate games.What the heck do most players do when they join games?The first thing they do is look for the simplest way to level as fast as they can,including using add on or cheating if they can get away with it.I don't think it matters if the game is blue black or orange ,most players do not play a game the way it was designed ,and if they do,they still come back complaining about it ,if they can't level to end game PVP super fast.
So when you look at what players WANT and DO in games,why does it matter what the game offers at all?The developer might as well auto give players max level and let them PVP in a big wide open box.Give the players their overpowering ONE HIT kill abiltities,because that is what these children want,sad really.The more a game offers and the more a game makes players do things,the more they complain,it really shows that gaming is still a platform for big babies.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
We'd be saying what is the truth, they are all EQ clones.
Agreed.
UO was crap.
It takes more time to play a MMORPG like UO than it does to become "world's best" piano/cello/violin player.
That says something.
What is moot is going into threads and simply posting, that the thread is moot, thus wasting your time.
The answer to the OP is very easy and very frightening.
... Simply there wouldn't be anymore PC games (except free to play browser goodies) since 2006 ...
Blizzard single handedly helped survive the much plagued and pirated software of PC gaming.
You would all be playing on consoles.
Was the massive money making of WOW that important in the history of PC gaming?
YES, it clearly was. No one would invest any further in PC gaming because of its pirated status as of 2005/2006. Forget the intrest in MMO's these days: you would ALL be playing Mario#27 as a fantastic liniair jumping game
And btw UO was a TERRIBLE game as ... a game, so it would NEVER have gottten further than a handful of players anyway so that wouldn't have helped the PC gaming at all.
Holy crap, this post here should clearly show zorndorf is off his rocker. He truly believes no one would invest in PC gaming if it wasn't for WoW even though we had great games releasing and still in development at that time. Hell, he believes mmo games had a 100% effect on genres that aren't even MMO games.
BOOYAKA!
It's a good excercis for your gray matter and an interesting point to discuss.
What is moot is going into threads and simply posting, that the thread is moot, thus wasting your time.
The answer to the OP is very easy and very frightening.
... Simply there wouldn't be anymore PC games (except free to play browser goodies) since 2006 ...
Blizzard single handedly helped survive the much plagued and pirated software of PC gaming.
You would all be playing on consoles.
Was the massive money making of WOW that important in the history of PC gaming?
YES, it clearly was. No one would invest any further in PC gaming because of its pirated status as of 2005/2006. Forget the intrest in MMO's these days: you would ALL be playing Mario#27 as a fantastic liniair jumping game
))
And btw UO was a TERRIBLE game as ... a game, so it would NEVER have gottten further than a handful of players anyway so that wouldn't have helped the PC gaming at all.
You're forgetting about a little thing called "Half-Life 2" and dozens of other popular FPSes on the PC. I fail to see your point.
I hate WoW because it made my plush hamster kill himself, created twin clones of Hitler, punched Superboy Prime in reality, stared my dog down, spoiled my grandmother, assimilated me into the Borg, then made me into a real boy, just to make me a woman again.
Variety in the genre is a good thing. I would be just as pissed if we have a hundred UO clones running around.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Nobody would complain because the 11 million idiots who were introduced to MMORPGs through WoW wouldn't be here.
Given that EQ2 was released after EQ and UO, I bet that everyone would be screaming that:
Sound familiar? The target and the numbers may have changed, but the arguments are still the same.
In short, everyone would be saying EXACTLY the same as today, just using a different target to vent their anger at.
Top 10 Most Misused Words in MMO's
yes of course they would.
its like having to choose from always having a chinese vs an indian. both great choices but if you had to eat nothing but that choice for all eternity then you would get bored. much like how its getting boring thinking a game looks nice then turns out to feel exactly like more wow. noodles are great but limited, chicken noodle, beef noodle, plain noodle. all are made from noodle!
there, all mmo are noodle. now we can have happier days
Numurous articles in PC game magazines mention this massive effect WOW had on PC development money.
WOW has a revenu of ... 1.2 billion dollars on a yearly base.
Not one other game - EVEN on cross platforms comes even close.
The last one that broke ALL records on the multi platform was CoD: Modern War 2, which could assemble around 500 million dollars in it is launching week, ....
... but WOW does add 1.2 billion ... each year ... on just ONE platform : the PC (well incl 3% Mac's).
---- > PC development was in CLEAR crisis since 2003. No one was even interested in investing in these pirated copied things until Blizzard showed an incredible gold mine was there with PC based mmorpg's with MILIONS and MILLIONS of active subscriptions.
Even 3 years ago, the PC version of games were postponed BEHIND the schedule of consoles. Only in the last 2 years we see the PC gets a decent treatment again.
You should ask yourself HOW much would be invested in a pirated industry without those 1.2 billion revenus Wow brought in the PC game industry.
You don't know how wrong you are. Also as a few others said, you're crazy.
The gamers who played UO or EQ and the like weren't the kind of individuals who whined. These were games that required a personal investment into the game.
WoW brought with it the entire Blizzard community: WC, SC and D lineups. Some of these gamers grew up on Battle.net where a much different sense of community was prevalent. Others still were friends or family of this established fanbase, brought into the genre.
The game of WoW did two things: give everything to solo'ers, and give everyone everything. As a direct result, the community inside of WoW is selfish (comparitively speaking to the rest of the genre). No fault of anyone in particular, but it's an offshoot of what the game provides.
Take into account that WoW's is the largest, by a dominating factor, subscriber base in the genre, and you have a spillover of gamers, attitudes and the like. Consider as well not just the shift in overall MMORPG community attitude, but also the dominating factor of WoW, and you have comparisons that now take place.
FFXI I can't ever recall as being an 'EQ clone'. I can't recall anything being a UO clone (albeit I got into the MMORPG gaming community during 2003, so my UO comment should be taken with a grain of salt). The community focus is one that allows comparing, due to reasons previously discussed, and the comparing is done by WoWers, comparing to WoW, simply because of its dominating market share.
So no, I don't think we'd have the comparisons, at least not within the same connotation, with other games that we do with WoW. FFXI/EQ/UO era never had it take place. This sort of thing was only after WoW came around. History will indicate as much.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
No.
A sandbox MMO wouldn't have garnered nearly as many subscribers, and furthermore the subscribers it did get wouldn't be the cesspool of a playerbase that WoW currently has. If the game doesn't hold their hand and lead them down a path, and then repeatedly pat them on the head and hand out upgrades for doing virtually nothing, they wouldn't be interested. As such, there wouldn't be so many developers trying to copy the cash cow "design" of the top MMO, and they would rather pick a few positives, and then innovate and differentiate themselves.
Thread title should read "Since games like WoW and UO have already come out, why cant developers make fresh new games instead of retreading clones over and over and calling them innovative?".
IMHO.
Were UO updated, I'd go back in a heartbeat! Loved the game, it just got watered down like WoW
I really wouldn't be surprised if it's the same as it is with WoW, if a NEW UO came out.
Zorndorf.........I don't even know what to say to you. If you really think that pirating has cut down because of the god that you worship known as WoW came along........well then you are either have mental problems or just like posting whatever dribble that comes to your mind can on these forums.
O yeah and FYI....no one on these forums takes anything you say to heart(if they know what you post and actual have a brain), so I don't even know why you keep posting your biased opinions that have nothing to back it up other than your random mathmatics that you consider to be the universal truth.
Yes WoW makes a lot of money, but that doesn't mean it's the pinacle of gaming.
Everyone has opinions, but does that make them the universal truth??? NO!
Exactly.
WoW may be overly popular for gamers that want a themepark MMO, which is most non-traditional MMO gamers. Unfortunately all of the big name developers want to exploit the 'masses' of MMO gamers, so we're left with a market that is flooded with the same old WoW clones with very few MMOs with any real substance.