HelloKitty Island is thatta way ----> If I want morality....I'll go to church.
Nowadays, church is the LAST place to look for morality.
You got it Z .
Can't remember the last time a Deist, Atheist or Agnostic flew an airliner into a building, shot an abortion doctor, painted signs saying "God hates gays", massacred a bunch of unarmed comrades screaming "God is great", started a holy war or tried to commit genocide.
Religion is evil and there is nothing moral about it. It teaches hate and intolerance. (rant off)
Originally posted by Kaneth I'm like you, except I didn't have the flash. My first thought was, "They went there, ok", and I then proceeded to shoot the place up. It's a game, it's not real life. Games are there so we can do things that we normally wouldn't. I will never walk into an airport (or anyplace) and start to shoot people at random in real life, but I'll do it in games...numerous times.
My question is: WHY won't you do that in real life?
That's a stupid question, sorry ..not trying to flame you but that's nothing but antagonistic to Kaneth.
How about
Why DON"T you do it in real life. Your answer is probably the same one everyone else will give.
Because your not a blood thirsty murderer willing to butcher real innocent unarmed people in cold blood for an ideology. If you were it is very unlikely you would be playing video games.
If this is a defense as to why you don't feel bad about doing the "bad" stuff, it begs the question, do you feel good about the "good" stuff? Or any of it, to be honest. If a game generates any emotional response at all, either good or bad, then this can't be used as a defense. So you don't feel bad when you die? Or feel good when you PvP? Or overcome some particularly challenging raid for the first time.
If it can't make you feel bad, then it can't make you feel good ... so why even bother playing the game?
But it DOES make you feel something, else you wouldn't play games at all.
Talk about being naive, that statement could be used as a definition. No MMO is just a game, The persistence of the world and it's avatar's makes that statement ridiculous. Wake up to reality.
That is ironic because what most people don't hear about a lot on the news is when military units are given random surveys from year to year asking if they would bears arms against american civilians if ordered to...This shouldn't be a surprise really considering the world's history during times of revolution. You have to ask yourself though, what if in that MW2 scene, it were american civilians you are "getting a kick out of shooting", as some put it?
By the way, hiding behind the 1st amendment Windssoul, won't last for long either, the senate, among other things, is always adding amendments in order to work on removing other amendments every year. The 1st and 2nd amendment being the highest priority on their list to control since they can't remove them yet. Not to mention that part of their reason for their trying every year, is because of what they deem as violent video games.
while this is true, you will have people argue against it, as you can see. For me it is a game, i don't really put don't emotionally attached to a video game, yeah i find enjoyment in the entertainment, but honestly my morals don't associate with the fake stuff going on inside a video game.
Argue whatever you want it just doesn't apply to me, when i leave a game i leave the game, i don't think hey it would be cool to go jack these people cars! lol i think a lot around here have mental issues and want to put that on others.
i play all games, i don't care what happens in the game, kill innocents? sure thing, kill villians? sure thing, kill kids? sure thing...its not real to me in any way, if it is too you, well i guess it sucks to be you then.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
while this is true, you will have people argue against it, as you can see. For me it is a game, i don't really put don't emotionally attached to a video game, yeah i find enjoyment in the entertainment, but honestly my morals don't associate with the fake stuff going on inside a video game.
So "enjoyment" has no emotional "pay off" for you? When you "enjoy" something....do you FEEL anything? Do you feel "happy" when you're enjoying yourself? Do you sometimes laugh? Those things are based in emotion. Entertainment is made TO INCITE emotion. People are entertained by a lot of different things, and the TYPE of entertainment incites different feelings in different people. So while you may not be "emotionally ATTACHED" to a video game....video games DO cause you to attach emotions to them, even if it's just the feeling of "hey....this is FUN!"
Argue whatever you want it just doesn't apply to me, when i leave a game i leave the game, i don't think hey it would be cool to go jack these people cars! lol i think a lot around here have mental issues and want to put that on others.
The more telling question than what happens when you "leave a game," would be why do you return to a game? What makes you want to come back and play it again?
i play all games, i don't care what happens in the game, kill innocents? sure thing, kill villians? sure thing, kill kids? sure thing...its not real to me in any way, if it is too you, well i guess it sucks to be you then.
It's not entirely true that you "don't care what happens in the game." If that were true....you wouldn't bother to play the game. At the very least....you care if you win. You may not FREAK OUT if you don't....but you care about winning. You WANT to win. When you want something....that's "caring about it."
The rest of your statement there I do buy. No...it's not real. But games can stimulate real FEELINGS about things that happen in them, unless you're a sociopath and have no feelings. Movies do the same thing. THOSE, quite frankly, are the people that shouldn't play games. I'm not worried about the normal people that have feelings and realize that, yes.....it's a GAME. They play games of all kinds and are able to differentiate between the feelings you might have playing a game, OR.....watching a movie..... that might make you tear up, because the story is sad, or whatever. It's the ones, like you said really, that are ALREADY mentally ill in some severe way, that can become problematic by re-enacting violence over and over virtually. Those people just MAY NOT be stable enough for playing in virtual worlds.
However....do I think games should be censored because of a minority? Absofuckinglutely NOT.
That is ironic because what most people don't hear about a lot on the news is when military units are given random surveys from year to year asking if they would bears arms against american civilians if ordered to...This shouldn't be a surprise really considering the world's history during times of revolution. You have to ask yourself though, what if in that MW2 scene, it were american civilians you are "getting a kick out of shooting", as some put it?
By the way, hiding behind the 1st amendment Windssoul, won't last for long either, the senate, among other things, is always adding amendments in order to work on removing other amendments every year. The 1st and 2nd amendment being the highest priority on their list to control since they can't remove them yet. Not to mention that part of their reason for their trying every year, is because of what they deem as violent video games.
If you are speaking of the 29 palms marine base survey,(link below) yes, I'm familiar with that. Its been an on going low level probe of what the general attitude within the services is, for years now. I leave speculation on the motivation of those behind these surveys to the reader.
As I've stated, physical courage is MUCH more common than ethical courage. "Following orders" is much safer from a personal and professional stand point. But its not a course that I'd recomend for anyone with an active conscience.
while this is true, you will have people argue against it, as you can see. For me it is a game, i don't really put don't emotionally attached to a video game, yeah i find enjoyment in the entertainment, but honestly my morals don't associate with the fake stuff going on inside a video game.
So "enjoyment" has no emotional "pay off" for you? When you "enjoy" something....do you FEEL anything? Do you feel "happy" when you're enjoying yourself? Do you sometimes laugh? Those things are based in emotion. Entertainment is made TO INCITE emotion. People are entertained by a lot of different things, and the TYPE of entertainment incites different feelings in different people. So while you may not be "emotionally ATTACHED" to a video game....video games DO cause you to attach emotions to them, even if it's just the feeling of "hey....this is FUN!"
yeah i honestly don't consider saying if something is fun or not an emotion but thats just me, so in that context i do find games fun or bad. but even with that, when i label them i don't have excitement or anger in me when i say those things.
Argue whatever you want it just doesn't apply to me, when i leave a game i leave the game, i don't think hey it would be cool to go jack these people cars! lol i think a lot around here have mental issues and want to put that on others.
The more telling question than what happens when you "leave a game," would be why do you return to a game? What makes you want to come back and play it again?
Mostly return to a game because i have nothing else to do at the moment.
i play all games, i don't care what happens in the game, kill innocents? sure thing, kill villians? sure thing, kill kids? sure thing...its not real to me in any way, if it is too you, well i guess it sucks to be you then.
It's not entirely true that you "don't care what happens in the game." If that were true....you wouldn't bother to play the game. At the very least....you care if you win. You may not FREAK OUT if you don't....but you care about winninig. You WANT to win. When you want something....that's "caring about it."
The rest of your statement there I do buy. No...it's not real. But games can stimulate real FEELINGS about things that happen in them, unless you're a sociopath and have no feelings. THOSE, quite frankly, are the people that shouldn't play games. I'm not worried about the normal people that play games of ANY kind. It's the ones, like you said really, that are ALREADY mentally ill in some severe way, that can become problematic by re-enacting violence over and over virtually. Those people just MAY NOT be stable enough for playing in virtual worlds.
However....do I think games should be censored because of a minority? Absofuckinglutely NOT.
no i really don't care whether i win or not, i really just play it then log off, sorry if that's weird but then again i'm not all that sane =P also i have only finished 2 games ever, like i said i just buy something play it off and on then ditch it. Even in mmo's i get so many hours a week, don't care about progress, just something to do.
Once you put it like that fun or not fun i guess that would be the most emotion i show with a video game, still no attachment, i don't get mad if a game is bad, i don't scream i wasted money on such and such terrible game, guess i'm dull when it comes to gaming -shrugs-
i would agree people are decensitized to violence and stuff, but hey it doesn't bother me one bit, i don't sit here and think about harming people or hating people. Too many other important things out there then to waste emotions on video games or similar things in general.
oh and on the subject of fun, i rarely get excited if something is fun, i'm pretty much like hey this is fun, not HEY THIS IS FUN!!!!
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand." - Lewis Thomas
The moral depravity evidenced by some of the posts in this thread disgusts and frightens me. Pulling the wings of flies isn't murder, and neither is killing small pets, but that is a road many serial killers travelled down early in their lives. It would not surprise me at all to hear of killers who played some of these games in their youth. I think the Columbine killers played FPS games. Not saying that was a trigger, but I bet it made the idea of what they planned more acceptable in their eyes. The question is whether the games encouraged (not "caused") their evil, or they were just feeding a desire already there.
this is the whole question do games/films make you in to a killer . i think in some ways it dose trigger some drak thought in back o f the brain . but that thought would of all ways been there hiddded away . lets look at himler he never had pc game are films yet he manage to dream up some of the worst ways to kill millions of people . so what made him in a mass killer . every one can kill it just needs that trigger to set it off
no i really don't care whether i win or not, i really just play it then log off, sorry if that's weird but then again i'm not all that sane =P also i have only finished 2 games ever, like i said i just buy something play it off and on then ditch it. Even in mmo's i get so many hours a week, don't care about progress, just something to do.
Once you put it like that fun or not fun i guess that would be the most emotion i show with a video game, still no attachment, i don't get mad if a game is bad, i don't scream i wasted money on such and such terrible game, guess i'm dull when it comes to gaming -shrugs-
i would agree people are decensitized to violence and stuff, but hey it doesn't bother me one bit, i don't sit here and think about harming people or hating people. Too many other important things out there then to waste emotions on video games or similar things in general.
oh and on the subject of fun, i rarely get excited if something is fun, i'm pretty much like hey this is fun, not HEY THIS IS FUN!!!!
You know....you actually sound very stable. Reminds me of my ex-husband. He was like a rock. He was a wonderful person (we were actually friends for years and years after our divorce until he moved to another state). There wasn't anything "wrong" with him, he just wasn't a very "emoting" kind of person. He wasn't mentally ill, a sociopath, or cold-hearted. He was just very reserved. His favorite game was DOOM, and he loved killing demons....lol.
I don't think you're weird for the way you, personally, use video games as a time filler for "something to do." Nothing wrong with that at all.
You're probably a good example of ...."We're all different." Just because someone is different than me, or you, doesn't make them less valid in any way.
This is why censorship in gaming is such a ridiculous idea at the bottom line. People are like snowflakes....no two are IDENTICAL. And while a certain video game may not be my personal "cup of tea," it certainly shouldn't prevent anyone else from enjoying it. While it may contain "emotional triggers" for me....that doesn't mean it does for EVERYONE and the opposite can also be said.
Mental illness is an ENTIRELY different topic. This is where the people that want to get rid of violence in games, seem confused, I think. Without treading on the rights of the vast majority to choose their own form of entertainment, whether that is movies, art, games, or golf....there is no way to prevent "bad things" from happening within the minority. If we babysit society to the point of taking away CHOICES....it's not going to prevent people from still doing what they want to do, ultimately.
And before someone says, "but it would only be taking away choices in video game entertainment...." right. That's how freedom is eroded....one right at a time. The price we, as a society, have to pay for some of our freedoms....is that some people aren't going to be able to HANDLE those freedoms responsibly. But, like I said, we cannot "babysit" society without it eventually becoming a state of martial law. The price for freedom is that sometimes....there will be problems. Sometimes those problems will be big. But it's not worth, in my opinion, giving up the right to make choices.
The "No Russian" scenario has you just following TWO sets of orders:
That of the terrorist leader...and of your superiors who gave you the infiltration mission. "Don't blow your cover" means you are, at mininmum, a passive observer to a massacre. The entire purpose of your larger mission is one that is, ultimately, to protect the very people you're watching being slaughtered by the terrorist cell you've infiltrated.
Of course, the game only gives you one way to "correctly" solve this puzzle.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Good observation. But that only proves you don't need video games to be a psychopathic killer. That doesn't say anything about people who do have access to violent video games. See what I mean?
Personally, I am deathly afraid of the results this video game and this terrorist level will have on our society.
Yes, violent video games should not have any effect on one's ability to make rational decision. But I think that is only the case when someone has enough positive influences in their life to stabilize/balance them. And I think Western society in particular doesn't have enough of these positive influences.
In particular, Google the discussion "does access to guns result in more murder?" And the answer is no. There are societies that have a higher gun-to-people ratio than the US, and have almost no violence. And the only logical conclusion is that Americans are so violent because they don't know any better. Just compare a movie like Rambo (an American hero) to James Bond (an English hero). America has a pre-disposition to breeding blood thirsty killers. As a result of media influence, culture disposition, lack of parental presence in the childhood years lol.
So realistically, I am expecting to see an increased amount of random violence and murder as a result of this video game. Especially because of how successful it's release weekend was. I'm actually disgusted and disappointed at all of you that bought the game. Your behavior is very sheepish. Paying $90 for a video game, are you retarded? And yes, I will be wearing a bullet-proof vest the next time I'm at an airport.
I'm a realist. I think you can't pack all that crappy mental imagery into someone's brain, and expect a positive result. It's not logical.
Im a hardcore gamer... 30+ hours a week on my PC playing various games.
Anyone who views in game actions as immoral or wrong needs to stop playing video games. I say this because it would be obvious that they lack the ability to seperate reality from fantasy.
In game actions are not reality. this is why we are given age ratings on games so that based on your maturity level you should be able to seperate reality from ficiton. Those who can't do this should also stop watching TV. it is also rated and provides us with much more graphic and disturbing images of reality than any developer could ever imagine in a game world... Again, this why rating systems are posted on games, movies and TV shows.
This reminds me of my mother who feels the Newmoon movie promotes the glorification of monsters. She is very Christian and is afraid of Vampires, says she always has been since she was a kid and read horror comics. if she was fully able to sperate reality from fiction she wouldn't have this fear as Vampires are not real. Just like the dead victims of the russian terrorists are not real. They are simply 1s and 0s arranged in very complicated sequences. Once a person wraps their head around that it takes the immorality out of these games as it is never a moral issue, only an issue of what you enjoy or dislike. As soon as you begin to question the moral integrity of the game or show you are watching/ palying it's time to put it down and examine your ability to seperate fiction from reality.
It is our right to play violent games & watch violent movies and TV shows. For those who have issue with it, it is their right not to participate. It is, however, not their right to tell me or anyone else who enjoys these pieces of fiction that we are not allowed to participate because of their opinions. That is our freedom, and I wish for it to remain intact.
I am a sadistic bastard. I loved the no Russian level. It was fun. I laughed gleefully as I mowed people down because I was like "wow I can't believe they are allowing this." I would never do such a thing in real life of course but it was a fun surprise. People need to realize it's just a game. Its not real. What about violent TV shows, movies, books, and the like? Also what about how Price launched off a EMP that basically screwed over America? He didn't directly kill anyone but he still is a somewhat questionable "hero" with that act. Now of course the "No Russian" level is pretty bad but it's just a game. I had fun with being a bad guy for a level and then going back to being a hero. Not to mention no matter what you do the agent dies so if your a monster and join in on the killing you get yours in the end. I hope Makarov dies pretty horribly in COD Modern Warfare 3.
It is our right to play violent games & watch violent movies and TV shows. For those who have issue with it, it is their right not to participate. It is, however, not their right to tell me or anyone else who enjoys these pieces of fiction that we are not allowed to participate because of their opinions. That is our freedom, and I wish for it to remain intact.
Sure its their right to tell you whatever they wish. I think most people are missing the point but this is the internet and people will use their cyber soapbox to not read what is placed forward but manage to spew a poorly thoughout opinion anyways.
Nice points, i always found it funny how the game tries to paint you as "the hero"
"Their not dead, just arrested and telported away" Say the guy gunning down Hellions with a assault riffle and flaming hands.
"their just mindless monsters," say the Paladin cutting up Orc, and Goblins in a Hoarde Camp. "Their aliens, this is a hostile world!" rationalizes the Tauren mage char broling humans.
"The Asians does not value life the way we do"
"The Slavs are sub-humans"
"The only good Indian is a dead Indian"
"The wogs begin at Calais"
Making your enemy less than you is a time tested method of breaking down moral taboos against killing fellow humans.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
I am a sadistic bastard. I loved the no Russian level. It was fun. I laughed gleefully as I mowed people down because I was like "wow I can't believe they are allowing this." I would never do such a thing in real life of course but it was a fun surprise. People need to realize it's just a game. Its not real. What about violent TV shows, movies, books, and the like? Also what about how Price launched off a EMP that basically screwed over America? He didn't directly kill anyone but he still is a somewhat questionable "hero" with that act. Now of course the "No Russian" level is pretty bad but it's just a game. I had fun with being a bad guy for a level and then going back to being a hero. Not to mention no matter what you do the agent dies so if your a monster and join in on the killing you get yours in the end. I hope Makarov dies pretty horribly in COD Modern Warfare 3.
Once again, someone who only helped proved the point about desensitized gamers and at the same time his only defense was "it's only a game". I am so glad he took the time to post that and enlighten us all...
That is ironic because what most people don't hear about a lot on the news is when military units are given random surveys from year to year asking if they would bears arms against american civilians if ordered to...This shouldn't be a surprise really considering the world's history during times of revolution. You have to ask yourself though, what if in that MW2 scene, it were american civilians you are "getting a kick out of shooting", as some put it?
By the way, hiding behind the 1st amendment Windssoul, won't last for long either, the senate, among other things, is always adding amendments in order to work on removing other amendments every year. The 1st and 2nd amendment being the highest priority on their list to control since they can't remove them yet. Not to mention that part of their reason for their trying every year, is because of what they deem as violent video games.
If you are speaking of the 29 palms marine base survey,(link below) yes, I'm familiar with that. Its been an on going low level probe of what the general attitude within the services is, for years now. I leave speculation on the motivation of those behind these surveys to the reader.
As I've stated, physical courage is MUCH more common than ethical courage. "Following orders" is much safer from a personal and professional stand point. But its not a course that I'd recomend for anyone with an active conscience.
Actually I was referring to my own unit's survey in San Mateo on Camp Pendleton, but the survey is passed throughout all military units and bases. Not consistantly of course, but it always seemed to get done about every couple years.
no i really don't care whether i win or not, i really just play it then log off, sorry if that's weird but then again i'm not all that sane =P also i have only finished 2 games ever, like i said i just buy something play it off and on then ditch it. Even in mmo's i get so many hours a week, don't care about progress, just something to do.
Once you put it like that fun or not fun i guess that would be the most emotion i show with a video game, still no attachment, i don't get mad if a game is bad, i don't scream i wasted money on such and such terrible game, guess i'm dull when it comes to gaming -shrugs-
i would agree people are decensitized to violence and stuff, but hey it doesn't bother me one bit, i don't sit here and think about harming people or hating people. Too many other important things out there then to waste emotions on video games or similar things in general.
oh and on the subject of fun, i rarely get excited if something is fun, i'm pretty much like hey this is fun, not HEY THIS IS FUN!!!!
You know....you actually sound very stable. Reminds me of my ex-husband. He was like a rock. He was a wonderful person (we were actually friends for years and years after our divorce until he moved to another state). There wasn't anything "wrong" with him, he just wasn't a very "emoting" kind of person. He wasn't mentally ill, a sociopath, or cold-hearted. He was just very reserved. His favorite game was DOOM, and he loved killing demons....lol.
I don't think you're weird for the way you, personally, use video games as a time filler for "something to do." Nothing wrong with that at all.
You're probably a good example of ...."We're all different." Just because someone is different than me, or you, doesn't make them less valid in any way.
This is why censorship in gaming is such a ridiculous idea at the bottom line. People are like snowflakes....no two are IDENTICAL. And while a certain video game may not be my personal "cup of tea," it certainly shouldn't prevent anyone else from enjoying it. While it may contain "emotional triggers" for me....that doesn't mean it does for EVERYONE and the opposite can also be said.
Mental illness is an ENTIRELY different topic. This is where the people that want to get rid of violence in games, seem confused, I think. Without treading on the rights of the vast majority to choose their own form of entertainment, whether that is movies, art, games, or golf....there is no way to prevent "bad things" from happening within the minority. If we babysit society to the point of taking away CHOICES....it's not going to prevent people from still doing what they want to do, ultimately.
And before someone says, "but it would only be taking away choices in video game entertainment...." right. That's how freedom is eroded....one right at a time. The price we, as a society, have to pay for some of our freedoms....is that some people aren't going to be able to HANDLE those freedoms responsibly. But, like I said, we cannot "babysit" society without it eventually becoming a state of martial law. The price for freedom is that sometimes....there will be problems. Sometimes those problems will be big. But it's not worth, in my opinion, giving up the right to make choices.
Life is just not so black and white.
Nice post except the point myself and some have been trying to make is not censor anyone persay but to at least give choices of right and wrong moral choices. There is no good excuse for a game designer to force a gamer to choose only one moral decision path based on his/her views of the world. 1st amendment aside, if that game designer wants the game to sell to a wide audience, then they have to give options or fail. If you as a gamer chose to support that game just because everyone else buys it or there is nothing else to do, or you are immoral anyhow...then maybe that gamer needs to do a reality check. If game designers get sent a message of no sales for games like that they will change their type of IP they make whether they like it or not.
I know because I have been to game design school and have friends in the industry who have had to make IP's quite often that they don't like, only because it's their job and it's what sells.
Comments
Nowadays, church is the LAST place to look for morality.
Nowadays, church is the LAST place to look for morality.
Well stated. One need only watch the evening news to see THAT.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Just Following ORDERS.....
Nowadays, church is the LAST place to look for morality.
You got it Z .
Can't remember the last time a Deist, Atheist or Agnostic flew an airliner into a building, shot an abortion doctor, painted signs saying "God hates gays", massacred a bunch of unarmed comrades screaming "God is great", started a holy war or tried to commit genocide.
Religion is evil and there is nothing moral about it. It teaches hate and intolerance. (rant off)
My question is: WHY won't you do that in real life?
That's a stupid question, sorry ..not trying to flame you but that's nothing but antagonistic to Kaneth.
How about
Why DON"T you do it in real life. Your answer is probably the same one everyone else will give.
Because your not a blood thirsty murderer willing to butcher real innocent unarmed people in cold blood for an ideology. If you were it is very unlikely you would be playing video games.
If this is a defense as to why you don't feel bad about doing the "bad" stuff, it begs the question, do you feel good about the "good" stuff? Or any of it, to be honest. If a game generates any emotional response at all, either good or bad, then this can't be used as a defense. So you don't feel bad when you die? Or feel good when you PvP? Or overcome some particularly challenging raid for the first time.
If it can't make you feel bad, then it can't make you feel good ... so why even bother playing the game?
But it DOES make you feel something, else you wouldn't play games at all.
Talk about being naive, that statement could be used as a definition. No MMO is just a game, The persistence of the world and it's avatar's makes that statement ridiculous. Wake up to reality.
Just Following ORDERS.....
That is ironic because what most people don't hear about a lot on the news is when military units are given random surveys from year to year asking if they would bears arms against american civilians if ordered to...This shouldn't be a surprise really considering the world's history during times of revolution. You have to ask yourself though, what if in that MW2 scene, it were american civilians you are "getting a kick out of shooting", as some put it?
By the way, hiding behind the 1st amendment Windssoul, won't last for long either, the senate, among other things, is always adding amendments in order to work on removing other amendments every year. The 1st and 2nd amendment being the highest priority on their list to control since they can't remove them yet. Not to mention that part of their reason for their trying every year, is because of what they deem as violent video games.
while this is true, you will have people argue against it, as you can see. For me it is a game, i don't really put don't emotionally attached to a video game, yeah i find enjoyment in the entertainment, but honestly my morals don't associate with the fake stuff going on inside a video game.
Argue whatever you want it just doesn't apply to me, when i leave a game i leave the game, i don't think hey it would be cool to go jack these people cars! lol i think a lot around here have mental issues and want to put that on others.
i play all games, i don't care what happens in the game, kill innocents? sure thing, kill villians? sure thing, kill kids? sure thing...its not real to me in any way, if it is too you, well i guess it sucks to be you then.
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
while this is true, you will have people argue against it, as you can see. For me it is a game, i don't really put don't emotionally attached to a video game, yeah i find enjoyment in the entertainment, but honestly my morals don't associate with the fake stuff going on inside a video game.
So "enjoyment" has no emotional "pay off" for you? When you "enjoy" something....do you FEEL anything? Do you feel "happy" when you're enjoying yourself? Do you sometimes laugh? Those things are based in emotion. Entertainment is made TO INCITE emotion. People are entertained by a lot of different things, and the TYPE of entertainment incites different feelings in different people. So while you may not be "emotionally ATTACHED" to a video game....video games DO cause you to attach emotions to them, even if it's just the feeling of "hey....this is FUN!"
Argue whatever you want it just doesn't apply to me, when i leave a game i leave the game, i don't think hey it would be cool to go jack these people cars! lol i think a lot around here have mental issues and want to put that on others.
The more telling question than what happens when you "leave a game," would be why do you return to a game? What makes you want to come back and play it again?
i play all games, i don't care what happens in the game, kill innocents? sure thing, kill villians? sure thing, kill kids? sure thing...its not real to me in any way, if it is too you, well i guess it sucks to be you then.
It's not entirely true that you "don't care what happens in the game." If that were true....you wouldn't bother to play the game. At the very least....you care if you win. You may not FREAK OUT if you don't....but you care about winning. You WANT to win. When you want something....that's "caring about it."
The rest of your statement there I do buy. No...it's not real. But games can stimulate real FEELINGS about things that happen in them, unless you're a sociopath and have no feelings. Movies do the same thing. THOSE, quite frankly, are the people that shouldn't play games. I'm not worried about the normal people that have feelings and realize that, yes.....it's a GAME. They play games of all kinds and are able to differentiate between the feelings you might have playing a game, OR.....watching a movie..... that might make you tear up, because the story is sad, or whatever. It's the ones, like you said really, that are ALREADY mentally ill in some severe way, that can become problematic by re-enacting violence over and over virtually. Those people just MAY NOT be stable enough for playing in virtual worlds.
However....do I think games should be censored because of a minority? Absofuckinglutely NOT.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Very good post, GirlGeek.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Just Following ORDERS.....
That is ironic because what most people don't hear about a lot on the news is when military units are given random surveys from year to year asking if they would bears arms against american civilians if ordered to...This shouldn't be a surprise really considering the world's history during times of revolution. You have to ask yourself though, what if in that MW2 scene, it were american civilians you are "getting a kick out of shooting", as some put it?
By the way, hiding behind the 1st amendment Windssoul, won't last for long either, the senate, among other things, is always adding amendments in order to work on removing other amendments every year. The 1st and 2nd amendment being the highest priority on their list to control since they can't remove them yet. Not to mention that part of their reason for their trying every year, is because of what they deem as violent video games.
If you are speaking of the 29 palms marine base survey,(link below) yes, I'm familiar with that. Its been an on going low level probe of what the general attitude within the services is, for years now. I leave speculation on the motivation of those behind these surveys to the reader.
www.geoffmetcalf.com/419.html
As I've stated, physical courage is MUCH more common than ethical courage. "Following orders" is much safer from a personal and professional stand point. But its not a course that I'd recomend for anyone with an active conscience.
while this is true, you will have people argue against it, as you can see. For me it is a game, i don't really put don't emotionally attached to a video game, yeah i find enjoyment in the entertainment, but honestly my morals don't associate with the fake stuff going on inside a video game.
So "enjoyment" has no emotional "pay off" for you? When you "enjoy" something....do you FEEL anything? Do you feel "happy" when you're enjoying yourself? Do you sometimes laugh? Those things are based in emotion. Entertainment is made TO INCITE emotion. People are entertained by a lot of different things, and the TYPE of entertainment incites different feelings in different people. So while you may not be "emotionally ATTACHED" to a video game....video games DO cause you to attach emotions to them, even if it's just the feeling of "hey....this is FUN!"
yeah i honestly don't consider saying if something is fun or not an emotion but thats just me, so in that context i do find games fun or bad. but even with that, when i label them i don't have excitement or anger in me when i say those things.
Argue whatever you want it just doesn't apply to me, when i leave a game i leave the game, i don't think hey it would be cool to go jack these people cars! lol i think a lot around here have mental issues and want to put that on others.
The more telling question than what happens when you "leave a game," would be why do you return to a game? What makes you want to come back and play it again?
Mostly return to a game because i have nothing else to do at the moment.
i play all games, i don't care what happens in the game, kill innocents? sure thing, kill villians? sure thing, kill kids? sure thing...its not real to me in any way, if it is too you, well i guess it sucks to be you then.
It's not entirely true that you "don't care what happens in the game." If that were true....you wouldn't bother to play the game. At the very least....you care if you win. You may not FREAK OUT if you don't....but you care about winninig. You WANT to win. When you want something....that's "caring about it."
The rest of your statement there I do buy. No...it's not real. But games can stimulate real FEELINGS about things that happen in them, unless you're a sociopath and have no feelings. THOSE, quite frankly, are the people that shouldn't play games. I'm not worried about the normal people that play games of ANY kind. It's the ones, like you said really, that are ALREADY mentally ill in some severe way, that can become problematic by re-enacting violence over and over virtually. Those people just MAY NOT be stable enough for playing in virtual worlds.
However....do I think games should be censored because of a minority? Absofuckinglutely NOT.
no i really don't care whether i win or not, i really just play it then log off, sorry if that's weird but then again i'm not all that sane =P also i have only finished 2 games ever, like i said i just buy something play it off and on then ditch it. Even in mmo's i get so many hours a week, don't care about progress, just something to do.
Once you put it like that fun or not fun i guess that would be the most emotion i show with a video game, still no attachment, i don't get mad if a game is bad, i don't scream i wasted money on such and such terrible game, guess i'm dull when it comes to gaming -shrugs-
i would agree people are decensitized to violence and stuff, but hey it doesn't bother me one bit, i don't sit here and think about harming people or hating people. Too many other important things out there then to waste emotions on video games or similar things in general.
oh and on the subject of fun, i rarely get excited if something is fun, i'm pretty much like hey this is fun, not HEY THIS IS FUN!!!!
"The great thing about human language is that it prevents us from sticking to the matter at hand."
- Lewis Thomas
this is the whole question do games/films make you in to a killer . i think in some ways it dose trigger some drak thought in back o f the brain . but that thought would of all ways been there hiddded away . lets look at himler he never had pc game are films yet he manage to dream up some of the worst ways to kill millions of people . so what made him in a mass killer . every one can kill it just needs that trigger to set it off
no i really don't care whether i win or not, i really just play it then log off, sorry if that's weird but then again i'm not all that sane =P also i have only finished 2 games ever, like i said i just buy something play it off and on then ditch it. Even in mmo's i get so many hours a week, don't care about progress, just something to do.
Once you put it like that fun or not fun i guess that would be the most emotion i show with a video game, still no attachment, i don't get mad if a game is bad, i don't scream i wasted money on such and such terrible game, guess i'm dull when it comes to gaming -shrugs-
i would agree people are decensitized to violence and stuff, but hey it doesn't bother me one bit, i don't sit here and think about harming people or hating people. Too many other important things out there then to waste emotions on video games or similar things in general.
oh and on the subject of fun, i rarely get excited if something is fun, i'm pretty much like hey this is fun, not HEY THIS IS FUN!!!!
You know....you actually sound very stable. Reminds me of my ex-husband. He was like a rock. He was a wonderful person (we were actually friends for years and years after our divorce until he moved to another state). There wasn't anything "wrong" with him, he just wasn't a very "emoting" kind of person.
He wasn't mentally ill, a sociopath, or cold-hearted. He was just very reserved. His favorite game was DOOM, and he loved killing demons....lol. 
I don't think you're weird for the way you, personally, use video games as a time filler for "something to do." Nothing wrong with that at all.
You're probably a good example of ...."We're all different." Just because someone is different than me, or you, doesn't make them less valid in any way.
This is why censorship in gaming is such a ridiculous idea at the bottom line. People are like snowflakes....no two are IDENTICAL. And while a certain video game may not be my personal "cup of tea," it certainly shouldn't prevent anyone else from enjoying it. While it may contain "emotional triggers" for me....that doesn't mean it does for EVERYONE and the opposite can also be said.
Mental illness is an ENTIRELY different topic. This is where the people that want to get rid of violence in games, seem confused, I think. Without treading on the rights of the vast majority to choose their own form of entertainment, whether that is movies, art, games, or golf....there is no way to prevent "bad things" from happening within the minority. If we babysit society to the point of taking away CHOICES....it's not going to prevent people from still doing what they want to do, ultimately.
And before someone says, "but it would only be taking away choices in video game entertainment...." right. That's how freedom is eroded....one right at a time. The price we, as a society, have to pay for some of our freedoms....is that some people aren't going to be able to HANDLE those freedoms responsibly. But, like I said, we cannot "babysit" society without it eventually becoming a state of martial law. The price for freedom is that sometimes....there will be problems. Sometimes those problems will be big. But it's not worth, in my opinion, giving up the right to make choices.
Life is just not so black and white.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
"Just following orders..."
The "No Russian" scenario has you just following TWO sets of orders:
That of the terrorist leader...and of your superiors who gave you the infiltration mission. "Don't blow your cover" means you are, at mininmum, a passive observer to a massacre. The entire purpose of your larger mission is one that is, ultimately, to protect the very people you're watching being slaughtered by the terrorist cell you've infiltrated.
Of course, the game only gives you one way to "correctly" solve this puzzle.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
RE: "Hitler didn't have video games"
Good observation. But that only proves you don't need video games to be a psychopathic killer. That doesn't say anything about people who do have access to violent video games. See what I mean?
Personally, I am deathly afraid of the results this video game and this terrorist level will have on our society.
Yes, violent video games should not have any effect on one's ability to make rational decision. But I think that is only the case when someone has enough positive influences in their life to stabilize/balance them. And I think Western society in particular doesn't have enough of these positive influences.
In particular, Google the discussion "does access to guns result in more murder?" And the answer is no. There are societies that have a higher gun-to-people ratio than the US, and have almost no violence. And the only logical conclusion is that Americans are so violent because they don't know any better. Just compare a movie like Rambo (an American hero) to James Bond (an English hero). America has a pre-disposition to breeding blood thirsty killers. As a result of media influence, culture disposition, lack of parental presence in the childhood years lol.
So realistically, I am expecting to see an increased amount of random violence and murder as a result of this video game. Especially because of how successful it's release weekend was. I'm actually disgusted and disappointed at all of you that bought the game. Your behavior is very sheepish. Paying $90 for a video game, are you retarded? And yes, I will be wearing a bullet-proof vest the next time I'm at an airport.
I'm a realist. I think you can't pack all that crappy mental imagery into someone's brain, and expect a positive result. It's not logical.
Im a hardcore gamer... 30+ hours a week on my PC playing various games.
Anyone who views in game actions as immoral or wrong needs to stop playing video games. I say this because it would be obvious that they lack the ability to seperate reality from fantasy.
In game actions are not reality. this is why we are given age ratings on games so that based on your maturity level you should be able to seperate reality from ficiton. Those who can't do this should also stop watching TV. it is also rated and provides us with much more graphic and disturbing images of reality than any developer could ever imagine in a game world... Again, this why rating systems are posted on games, movies and TV shows.
This reminds me of my mother who feels the Newmoon movie promotes the glorification of monsters. She is very Christian and is afraid of Vampires, says she always has been since she was a kid and read horror comics. if she was fully able to sperate reality from fiction she wouldn't have this fear as Vampires are not real. Just like the dead victims of the russian terrorists are not real. They are simply 1s and 0s arranged in very complicated sequences. Once a person wraps their head around that it takes the immorality out of these games as it is never a moral issue, only an issue of what you enjoy or dislike. As soon as you begin to question the moral integrity of the game or show you are watching/ palying it's time to put it down and examine your ability to seperate fiction from reality.
It is our right to play violent games & watch violent movies and TV shows. For those who have issue with it, it is their right not to participate. It is, however, not their right to tell me or anyone else who enjoys these pieces of fiction that we are not allowed to participate because of their opinions. That is our freedom, and I wish for it to remain intact.
Nice points, i always found it funny how the game tries to paint you as "the hero"
"Their not dead, just arrested and telported away" Say the guy gunning down Hellions with a assault riffle and flaming hands.
"their just mindless monsters," say the Paladin cutting up Orc, and Goblins in a Hoarde Camp.
"Their aliens, this is a hostile world!" rationalizes the Tauren mage char broling humans.
I am a sadistic bastard. I loved the no Russian level. It was fun. I laughed gleefully as I mowed people down because I was like "wow I can't believe they are allowing this." I would never do such a thing in real life of course but it was a fun surprise. People need to realize it's just a game. Its not real. What about violent TV shows, movies, books, and the like? Also what about how Price launched off a EMP that basically screwed over America? He didn't directly kill anyone but he still is a somewhat questionable "hero" with that act. Now of course the "No Russian" level is pretty bad but it's just a game. I had fun with being a bad guy for a level and then going back to being a hero. Not to mention no matter what you do the agent dies so if your a monster and join in on the killing you get yours in the end. I hope Makarov dies pretty horribly in COD Modern Warfare 3.
Sure its their right to tell you whatever they wish. I think most people are missing the point but this is the internet and people will use their cyber soapbox to not read what is placed forward but manage to spew a poorly thoughout opinion anyways.
You mean like you just did?
"The Asians does not value life the way we do"
"The Slavs are sub-humans"
"The only good Indian is a dead Indian"
"The wogs begin at Calais"
Making your enemy less than you is a time tested method of breaking down moral taboos against killing fellow humans.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Once again, someone who only helped proved the point about desensitized gamers and at the same time his only defense was "it's only a game". I am so glad he took the time to post that and enlighten us all...
Just Following ORDERS.....
That is ironic because what most people don't hear about a lot on the news is when military units are given random surveys from year to year asking if they would bears arms against american civilians if ordered to...This shouldn't be a surprise really considering the world's history during times of revolution. You have to ask yourself though, what if in that MW2 scene, it were american civilians you are "getting a kick out of shooting", as some put it?
By the way, hiding behind the 1st amendment Windssoul, won't last for long either, the senate, among other things, is always adding amendments in order to work on removing other amendments every year. The 1st and 2nd amendment being the highest priority on their list to control since they can't remove them yet. Not to mention that part of their reason for their trying every year, is because of what they deem as violent video games.
If you are speaking of the 29 palms marine base survey,(link below) yes, I'm familiar with that. Its been an on going low level probe of what the general attitude within the services is, for years now. I leave speculation on the motivation of those behind these surveys to the reader.
www.geoffmetcalf.com/419.html
As I've stated, physical courage is MUCH more common than ethical courage. "Following orders" is much safer from a personal and professional stand point. But its not a course that I'd recomend for anyone with an active conscience.
Actually I was referring to my own unit's survey in San Mateo on Camp Pendleton, but the survey is passed throughout all military units and bases. Not consistantly of course, but it always seemed to get done about every couple years.
no i really don't care whether i win or not, i really just play it then log off, sorry if that's weird but then again i'm not all that sane =P also i have only finished 2 games ever, like i said i just buy something play it off and on then ditch it. Even in mmo's i get so many hours a week, don't care about progress, just something to do.
Once you put it like that fun or not fun i guess that would be the most emotion i show with a video game, still no attachment, i don't get mad if a game is bad, i don't scream i wasted money on such and such terrible game, guess i'm dull when it comes to gaming -shrugs-
i would agree people are decensitized to violence and stuff, but hey it doesn't bother me one bit, i don't sit here and think about harming people or hating people. Too many other important things out there then to waste emotions on video games or similar things in general.
oh and on the subject of fun, i rarely get excited if something is fun, i'm pretty much like hey this is fun, not HEY THIS IS FUN!!!!
You know....you actually sound very stable. Reminds me of my ex-husband. He was like a rock. He was a wonderful person (we were actually friends for years and years after our divorce until he moved to another state). There wasn't anything "wrong" with him, he just wasn't a very "emoting" kind of person.
He wasn't mentally ill, a sociopath, or cold-hearted. He was just very reserved. His favorite game was DOOM, and he loved killing demons....lol. 
I don't think you're weird for the way you, personally, use video games as a time filler for "something to do." Nothing wrong with that at all.
You're probably a good example of ...."We're all different." Just because someone is different than me, or you, doesn't make them less valid in any way.
This is why censorship in gaming is such a ridiculous idea at the bottom line. People are like snowflakes....no two are IDENTICAL. And while a certain video game may not be my personal "cup of tea," it certainly shouldn't prevent anyone else from enjoying it. While it may contain "emotional triggers" for me....that doesn't mean it does for EVERYONE and the opposite can also be said.
Mental illness is an ENTIRELY different topic. This is where the people that want to get rid of violence in games, seem confused, I think. Without treading on the rights of the vast majority to choose their own form of entertainment, whether that is movies, art, games, or golf....there is no way to prevent "bad things" from happening within the minority. If we babysit society to the point of taking away CHOICES....it's not going to prevent people from still doing what they want to do, ultimately.
And before someone says, "but it would only be taking away choices in video game entertainment...." right. That's how freedom is eroded....one right at a time. The price we, as a society, have to pay for some of our freedoms....is that some people aren't going to be able to HANDLE those freedoms responsibly. But, like I said, we cannot "babysit" society without it eventually becoming a state of martial law. The price for freedom is that sometimes....there will be problems. Sometimes those problems will be big. But it's not worth, in my opinion, giving up the right to make choices.
Life is just not so black and white.
Nice post except the point myself and some have been trying to make is not censor anyone persay but to at least give choices of right and wrong moral choices. There is no good excuse for a game designer to force a gamer to choose only one moral decision path based on his/her views of the world. 1st amendment aside, if that game designer wants the game to sell to a wide audience, then they have to give options or fail. If you as a gamer chose to support that game just because everyone else buys it or there is nothing else to do, or you are immoral anyhow...then maybe that gamer needs to do a reality check. If game designers get sent a message of no sales for games like that they will change their type of IP they make whether they like it or not.
I know because I have been to game design school and have friends in the industry who have had to make IP's quite often that they don't like, only because it's their job and it's what sells.