About 4 years ago I paid our friends from Asia to level a character on WOW but was suspended shortly after for doing so. The few hours I was on I didn't really understand what all the hype was but there is a reason they are #1. I never went back after the suspension but I wish I had because I've been logging in and out of so many games that have failed that I would have saved my self a lot of time by enduring the terrible Nickelodeon Slime. At the end of the day the only thing that matters is server population and these guys have figured out a way to keep these types of people satisfied. Just name an MMO and they haven't figured it out and I would bet my house they will never get it.
They are #1 ( in terms of subscriptions, not in active players ) because they released a fluid game, with a well known brand, easy to get into, good marketing, relatively bugfree, enjoyable ( for a while ), at a time there was no good competetion in the same segment of mmo's. ( to name a few : DAoC failed with ToA and NF, SWG failed with CU and NGE and EQ was slowly going down ).
Now, the good thing with having so many players, is that they have money for alot of content. The bad thing is, they can't really innovate, they have to keep copying what works and make it easy enough so the most people can play it.
This while EVE Online for example can innovate and they don't have to dumb down their game, they don't have to and don't want to please everyone. Plus they have the second largest shard in the world ( after Second Life ), with tens of thousands of people online at all times, it is a vibrant growing world.
So while I enjoyed my time in WoW ( even tho I missed the DAoC RvR element ), I am probably even more sattisfied now with EVE.
They keep pumping out free expansions every 6 months giving the players the tools to create their own content and goals, so in the end, EVE has alot more content than WoW ever can achieve, you can "finish" WoW, but you can't "finish" EVE.
Besides that, if you look at LOTRO, a more similar game to WoW, they pump out at least as much content as WoW, and they have alot less players indeed. Still they make good profits.
Lastly, EVE is growing more steadily and faster than WoW, so I predict that EVE will surpass WoW in the year 2030
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
The ops title makes no sense.. if they are #1 they won't close the doors.. if they don't close the doors that means wow will be running for all of eternity.. The title of the post makes no sense at all, critical think a little man.. just a little..
A game that completely revolves around Items is very shallow. Having Armor sets as "New content" is bad enough but pile on the fact that you need to run dungeons over and over and over again to get gear off the same vendors. If that's not enough the entire playerbase is in an instance, either a dungeon/raid or pvp map. Seriously why have a game world if everyone is going to sit in a major city and waiting on Lfg invites and pvp queues. Might as well make the game like Phantasy Star Online with a city hub and the ability to run missions and dungeons together it would be the same. It doesn't matter what you do in WoW, It all boils down to what items you have and which items you want. Play other games that don't have a 100% Item focused mechanic and you see how limited WoW is. You need to give people options these days and not ram Items up there ass. In Eve I don;t even have to fly my ship I can spend all my time just trading or mining in empire space and to the playerbase that would be considered a legitimate way to play try some bullshit in WoW and see what happens. Try to just stay in the starting areas and work the market and see how much you matter to the overall picture of WoW. Seriously i'm shocked that people don't see how pitiful WoW is when it comes to gameplay options.
Edit: You know if Blizzard wanted to they could replace all of WoWs gameworld and just toss everyone in a giant room with nothing but portals and gear vendors and the majority of those players would still happily play WoW forever.
It's time that you start playing WOW again.
Before talking about "OPTIONS".
Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".
---- > Ok Here we go:
Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.
Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.
Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).
Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.
Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.
And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.
City Raids that give achievements and awards.
So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it? )) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.
And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....
I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).
Others play for even other titles and achievements.
OLD wow was all about gear.
WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.
Apparenly you don't even know it. (by not playing it and see the evident facts).
You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.
Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.
First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling. ))
Your choice.
Bullshit! It's all about gear and you know it. Stop blowing smoke up peoples ass dude. people play to gear up characters.
You wanna talk about achievements and titles? it means nothing
What do meaningless options matter when the entire game revolves around item farming?
Why do u arena? items off a vendor
Why do u run BGs? Items off a vendor
Why do you run dungeons? Item drops
Why do you farm heroics? Tokens for items off a vendor
Why do you raid? Item Drops and Tokens for items off a vendor
Why do you farm rep? Items off a vendor
Why do you run wintergrasp? Items off a vendor
Why do level to cap? So you can collect pretty item drops and items off a vendor
ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
might as well go play Diablo.
Why have options if the goal is always the same?
I had written a huge post on why most of those points are wrong, but Firefox decided to have a nice crash on me.
Anyway, I'll just say the TL;DR version of it:
Achievements and titles are not meaningless.
A Gladiator or a guild with Death's Demise will be famous server-wide or even battlegroup-wide. People will go "Oh shit" when they see one in BGs,WG or WPvP.
You cannot get those titles without having an extremely skilled and dedicated team and this is a fact. The amount of coordonation you need for Yogg Saron 0 25man, even post nerf, is rather extreme..
That little title can and change your gameplay itself. People will respect you more, they'll look for you more, they'll talk with/talk about you more and you'll genrally have higher priority over people without them(for example, what do you think a current season Gladiator is gonna choose for high-rated arena. A player with great gear and only 1800 or a Gladiator from BC with average gear. I guarantee you 100% that it will be the BC gladiator).
If this doesn't have a meaning...
Also, if you don't raid, do WG and play arena for fun...then you might as not play it at all. Gear is very easy to get and the difference between hardmode/normalmode and 1800/2200 arena items is rather insignificant(but still noticeable).
People who attempt hardmodes/try to get gladiator will not do it for gear. They'll do it for the "meaningless titles", challenge and fun.
You really seem to be burnt out with WoW, but that doesn't mean we all share the same "ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!" ideology.
Shouldn't the title be "Wow will never shut its doors because it will remain #1 forever?"
Stating it that way - seems a little more ludicrous. Someday, although not in the forseeable future, WoW will lose it's spot at #1 and will eventually have to shut down.
Seems to me that the OP has to prove somehow that A. Wow will remain #1 in perpetuity and B. The doors will be shut despite all this.
The ops title makes no sense.. if they are #1 they won't close the doors.. if they don't close the doors that means wow will be running for all of eternity.. The title of the post makes no sense at all, critical think a little man.. just a little..
I was going to post that as well, brilliant business sense to close down the #1 game and lose out on all that money. But I guess they're just so super awesome they can do that, just for the sake of doing it.
I personally can't bring myself to look at WoW anymore but yes it is number one in just about everything that is MMO except graphics, sound.
Also the gear thing is silly since every fantasy MMO could be labelled the same way. I do not play an MMO for the end game gear grind. In fact, thats when I reroll or cancel. I play to explore a class and the world... once. Once I've seen it all, and I want to see it all, I'm out.
Where WoW caters to more of its player base than other MMOs is that its dungeon/raid system allows a more open choice. Others are very gear gated, WoW offers an "easy" mode and a "hardcore" mode. More access means more reason to stay subbed. Also slow released means casual players aren't overwhelmed to keep up. Which is what in the end killed EQ. Too much content too fast. EQ2's fault is too much gating keeping players out of the content they do release.
WoW is number one because despite their engine faults... they make very little dumb dumbs otherwise. Well the sparkly quest/mat thing is really badly done but again falls under graphics. If WoW looked like WAR, ouch Blizz would still have me by the nuts.
It's been a long time since Blizzard has released anything new and not just a sequel.
They are making an all new MMO based on a new IP. That is the rumour.
Knowing how Blizz does its own development work, we can only wait, they never feel the need to hurry. Anything they put onto shelves or downloading websites, will sell like hotcakes. Their reputation alone will carry their games a long long way.
I am also impatient to try out Diablo 3, knowing it is a sequel. Sequel or not, Blizz games has so far make me and my friends very happy.
I agree that Blizzard makes quality games. Diablo remains my second favorite action rpg game ever. And I know about their upcoming mmo (probably released in 2015 knowing blizzard). Still, it has been a long time since they have created anything new, heck even WoW is based after the RTS series. Personally I wish they would create another rts game, that genre has been lacking lately in my opinion.
Also the gear thing is silly since every fantasy MMO could be labelled the same way. I do not play an MMO for the end game gear grind. In fact, thats when I reroll or cancel. I play to explore a class and the world... once. Once I've seen it all, and I want to see it all, I'm out.
This paragraph right here folks is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. Sorry to centre you out Solude, but you have only demonstrated your lack of experience with other mmos.
No, every fantasy game cannot be labelled the same way. I'm sorry the ones you have had the opportunity to sample have been all focused on gear, but that is not the reality with all other games. The whole point is though, many of us have no desire to continue to see game after game being released with the intention of taking on WOW. Or at the very least copy as much as they can from the damn thing. You have to understand that those of us that have played WOW and have grown tired enough with it not to return, are desperate for some innovation.
All forms of entertainment will shrivel up and die eventually without any innovation. Music, TV, and Video Games included.
The WOW mentality actually reminds me of something from Physics...
inertia n. Physics . The tendency of a body to resist acceleration; the tendency of a body at rest to remain at rest or of a body in straight line.
Sounds spot on to me.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
It's time that you start playing WOW again. Before talking about "OPTIONS". Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought". ---- > Ok Here we go: Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG. Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses. Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here). Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill. Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money. And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground. City Raids that give achievements and awards. So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it? )) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway. And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight.... I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between). Others play for even other titles and achievements. OLD wow was all about gear. WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days. Apparenly you don't even know it. (by not playing it and see the evident facts). You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them. Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher. First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling. ))
Your choice.
Sounds great but the game is still about gear grinds and repetitve gameplay (unfortunately a hallmark of mmos). I would consider playing WoW again actually but the graphics would need to be improved 100x. A friend bought me a game card a couple weeks ago so I decided to give the game a go again. I played 30 minutes and logged off. I haven't played it again and a big part of it is how aged the game looks. It is especially apparent when you have taken a long time off from the game and played more recent games. The other part was just the repetitive gameplay, I just got bored of playing it. The carrots don't taste as good as they did before.
A game that completely revolves around Items is very shallow. Having Armor sets as "New content" is bad enough but pile on the fact that you need to run dungeons over and over and over again to get gear off the same vendors. If that's not enough the entire playerbase is in an instance, either a dungeon/raid or pvp map. Seriously why have a game world if everyone is going to sit in a major city and waiting on Lfg invites and pvp queues. Might as well make the game like Phantasy Star Online with a city hub and the ability to run missions and dungeons together it would be the same. It doesn't matter what you do in WoW, It all boils down to what items you have and which items you want. Play other games that don't have a 100% Item focused mechanic and you see how limited WoW is. You need to give people options these days and not ram Items up there ass. In Eve I don;t even have to fly my ship I can spend all my time just trading or mining in empire space and to the playerbase that would be considered a legitimate way to play try some bullshit in WoW and see what happens. Try to just stay in the starting areas and work the market and see how much you matter to the overall picture of WoW. Seriously i'm shocked that people don't see how pitiful WoW is when it comes to gameplay options.
Edit: You know if Blizzard wanted to they could replace all of WoWs gameworld and just toss everyone in a giant room with nothing but portals and gear vendors and the majority of those players would still happily play WoW forever.
It's time that you start playing WOW again.
Before talking about "OPTIONS".
Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".
---- > Ok Here we go:
Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.
Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.
Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).
Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.
Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.
And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.
City Raids that give achievements and awards.
So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it? )) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.
And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....
I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).
Others play for even other titles and achievements.
OLD wow was all about gear.
WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.
Apparenly you don't even know it. (by not playing it and see the evident facts).
You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.
Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.
First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling. ))
Your choice.
Bullshit! It's all about gear and you know it. Stop blowing smoke up peoples ass dude. people play to gear up characters.
You wanna talk about achievements and titles? it means nothing
What do meaningless options matter when the entire game revolves around item farming?
Why do u arena? items off a vendor
Why do u run BGs? Items off a vendor
Why do you run dungeons? Item drops
Why do you farm heroics? Tokens for items off a vendor
Why do you raid? Item Drops and Tokens for items off a vendor
Why do you farm rep? Items off a vendor
Why do you run wintergrasp? Items off a vendor
Why do level to cap? So you can collect pretty item drops and items off a vendor
ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
might as well go play Diablo.
Why have options if the goal is always the same?
I had written a huge post on why most of those points are wrong, but Firefox decided to have a nice crash on me.
Anyway, I'll just say the TL;DR version of it:
Achievements and titles are not meaningless.
A Gladiator or a guild with Death's Demise will be famous server-wide or even battlegroup-wide. People will go "Oh shit" when they see one in BGs,WG or WPvP.
You cannot get those titles without having an extremely skilled and dedicated team and this is a fact. The amount of coordonation you need for Yogg Saron 0 25man, even post nerf, is rather extreme..
That little title can and change your gameplay itself. People will respect you more, they'll look for you more, they'll talk with/talk about you more and you'll genrally have higher priority over people without them(for example, what do you think a current season Gladiator is gonna choose for high-rated arena. A player with great gear and only 1800 or a Gladiator from BC with average gear. I guarantee you 100% that it will be the BC gladiator).
If this doesn't have a meaning...
Also, if you don't raid, do WG and play arena for fun...then you might as not play it at all. Gear is very easy to get and the difference between hardmode/normalmode and 1800/2200 arena items is rather insignificant(but still noticeable).
People who attempt hardmodes/try to get gladiator will not do it for gear. They'll do it for the "meaningless titles", challenge and fun.
You really seem to be burnt out with WoW, but that doesn't mean we all share the same "ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!" ideology.
If you took the nice items out of hardmode 25 mans noone would do them, not even just for titles/achievements.
Sure there might be a few random people that want the title but overall its for items. The 10 and 25 man hardmodes give better gear so people do them, shit like titles and achievements are just extras but the main focus has and always will be gear.
For a person that's played MMOs for a very long time I want more.
For a person that's played MMOs for a very long time I want more.
Like what exactly? What more do you want out of a game that's primarily PvE focused. WoW is not a PvP game, no matter how hard people want it to be. It has PvP elements (BG's, arenas) but it's core focus is and always will be PvE because that is what a majority of it's playerbase wants. So again, what more out of a PvE focused game are you wanting that WoW does not provide?
I never went back after the suspension but I wish I had because I've been logging in and out of so many games that have failed that I would have saved my self a lot of time by enduring the terrible Nickelodeon Slime.
I can't help but think your name is a bit ironic after this statement...
After reading the rest of your OP, maybe you should change it to "revenuluva", since, as you say, that's the only thing that matters in the world.
Edit: also of note is the fact that you claim to be a "MMOluva", yet can't be bothered to play and level a toon, yourself. "I love MMO's... just don't like playing them..."
This paragraph right here folks is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. Sorry to centre you out Solude, but you have only demonstrated your lack of experience with other mmos.
No, every fantasy game cannot be labelled the same way. I'm sorry the ones you have had the opportunity to sample have been all focused on gear, but that is not the reality with all other games.
No lack of XP. I have capped toons in many major MMOs released since UO and months of time in others. I played to cap UO, AC, EQ, DAoC, CoX, AC2, EQ2, WoW, WAR, LotRO, TR. Have also played FFXI, L2, Aion, CO, AoC, VG, RoM, DDO, AO. Probably missed some but short of it is I have been playing MMOs since 97 and nothing else other than Bioware RPGs once through.
You also misread my post. The focus on gear is a player driven focus. The focus that WoW brought to the table was that of a theme park. The gear grind will always be in the players head not dev design. And yes every MMO released since the dawn of time can be played by the player as a gear grind. But its a choice, not a requirement in most MMOs. In EQ2 though it is the reality, you cannot experience the bulk of the content end game without grinding the same handful of raids. But then thats just one of the reasons WoW can retain the casual base and other MMOs can't.
Problem is I can't stomach it any more, but I'm not fool enough to believe that any other MMO has overtaken WoW in other department other than graphics.
A game that completely revolves around Items is very shallow. Having Armor sets as "New content" is bad enough but pile on the fact that you need to run dungeons over and over and over again to get gear off the same vendors. If that's not enough the entire playerbase is in an instance, either a dungeon/raid or pvp map. Seriously why have a game world if everyone is going to sit in a major city and waiting on Lfg invites and pvp queues. Might as well make the game like Phantasy Star Online with a city hub and the ability to run missions and dungeons together it would be the same. It doesn't matter what you do in WoW, It all boils down to what items you have and which items you want. Play other games that don't have a 100% Item focused mechanic and you see how limited WoW is. You need to give people options these days and not ram Items up there ass. In Eve I don;t even have to fly my ship I can spend all my time just trading or mining in empire space and to the playerbase that would be considered a legitimate way to play try some bullshit in WoW and see what happens. Try to just stay in the starting areas and work the market and see how much you matter to the overall picture of WoW. Seriously i'm shocked that people don't see how pitiful WoW is when it comes to gameplay options.
Edit: You know if Blizzard wanted to they could replace all of WoWs gameworld and just toss everyone in a giant room with nothing but portals and gear vendors and the majority of those players would still happily play WoW forever.
It's time that you start playing WOW again.
Before talking about "OPTIONS".
Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".
---- > Ok Here we go:
Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.
Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.
Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).
Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.
Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.
And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.
City Raids that give achievements and awards.
So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it? )) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.
And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....
I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).
Others play for even other titles and achievements.
OLD wow was all about gear.
WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.
Apparenly you don't even know it. (by not playing it and see the evident facts).
You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.
Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.
First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling. ))
Your choice
Have these PvP elements been implemented? mainly the 240 siege system?
I play EVE and gonna go play Mortal Online whenever it comes out.
Wow is #1 no doubt and many of my friends play it on a full time frame, they go for kills, epics and all of it.
But listen to me, for me #1 is EVE, for the freedom and fun that it undoubiously brings to the players (along with some maths)
Dont get me wrong, I think WoW is able to surpasse its competitors by adding new features, as it did with WAR, but it has nothing to do with the features EVE & Mortal Online present straight on.
I for one don't enjoy WoW at all anymore. But this is a load of BS. WoW will not remain number 1 until they shut it down. As all games before it WoW will be toppled eventually. I cannot say if that will happen in a week, a month, or even years but sooner or later it will happen. Thats what happens in life, and especially in gaming.
I for one don't enjoy WoW at all anymore. But this is a load of BS. WoW will not remain number 1 until they shut it down. As all games before it WoW will be toppled eventually. I cannot say if that will happen in a week, a month, or even years but sooner or later it will happen. Thats what happens in life, and especially in gaming.
how do you know it wont just shut down before it gets toppled then?
I for one don't enjoy WoW at all anymore. But this is a load of BS. WoW will not remain number 1 until they shut it down. As all games before it WoW will be toppled eventually. I cannot say if that will happen in a week, a month, or even years but sooner or later it will happen. Thats what happens in life, and especially in gaming.
how do you know it wont just shut down before it gets toppled then?
Yeah right. Blizz will shut down the biggest money maker in MMO's.
I for one don't enjoy WoW at all anymore. But this is a load of BS. WoW will not remain number 1 until they shut it down. As all games before it WoW will be toppled eventually. I cannot say if that will happen in a week, a month, or even years but sooner or later it will happen. Thats what happens in life, and especially in gaming.
how do you know it wont just shut down before it gets toppled then?
Yeah right. Blizz will shut down the biggest money maker in MMO's.
I have to agree. Blizz is very good in teh marketing department and wouldnt make a stupid decision to shut it dow suddenly. Especially when they are making a new MMO to meet a new crowd not to save there WoW players.
Titanic is the highest grossing film of all time. Therefor, it is the best movie of all time.
(that's what i think of WoW).
They're number 1 in bringing the most money. That's a fact, but it does not necessarily relate to quality. McDonalds makes more money worldwide than any other restaurant..... make of that what you will.
#1 in the only thing that matters on this earth revenue.
Speak for yourself, please.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Titanic is the highest grossing film of all time. Therefor, it is the best movie of all time. (that's what i think of WoW).
Not so good statement.
Because Titanic didn't have 20 times MORE grossing than the second movie.
1.2 billion dollars yearly revenu (times 5 years) for WOW only ...., compared to the usual 10 -20 million dollars revenu for the other ones. And it goes way further than MMO's...
Look at it this way/ COD2 broke ALL past records because they could break 500 million dollars on the launching week. Never seen before and a nice add on to the 3 billion US dollars .... the COMPLETE franchise of COD across ALL platforms (from handhelds to consoles to PC's) had in 6 years time.
WOW brings in 1.2 billion dollars ... each year. Do the count: 5 years and still running...
So IF Titanic made 20 times more money than other films and 3 times more money than ALL other movies of the past 5 years together,....
Yep ... if this would occur it would be clear that X was indeed the undisputed King product by a long shot.
I'm sorry bu this is an idiotic argument. My point was, that most grossing has nothing to do with quality. You in turn argue, the MORE money you make, the MORE QUALITY.
Take your own analogy and apply it to Titanic. Are you saying if Titanic made as much money as WoW does compared to the next game (or next movie), it magically makes Titanic the best movie of all time?
The most money doesn't mean best.
Apply your own analogy to McDonalds. McDonalds makes the most money, there it is the most profitable Restaurant. Is it the healthiest? Nope.
Edit: Compare Transformers 2 to No Country for Old Men. One clearly made more money than the other, but one of the two wasn't best picture of the year.
Comments
They are #1 ( in terms of subscriptions, not in active players ) because they released a fluid game, with a well known brand, easy to get into, good marketing, relatively bugfree, enjoyable ( for a while ), at a time there was no good competetion in the same segment of mmo's. ( to name a few : DAoC failed with ToA and NF, SWG failed with CU and NGE and EQ was slowly going down ).
Now, the good thing with having so many players, is that they have money for alot of content. The bad thing is, they can't really innovate, they have to keep copying what works and make it easy enough so the most people can play it.
This while EVE Online for example can innovate and they don't have to dumb down their game, they don't have to and don't want to please everyone. Plus they have the second largest shard in the world ( after Second Life ), with tens of thousands of people online at all times, it is a vibrant growing world.
So while I enjoyed my time in WoW ( even tho I missed the DAoC RvR element ), I am probably even more sattisfied now with EVE.
They keep pumping out free expansions every 6 months giving the players the tools to create their own content and goals, so in the end, EVE has alot more content than WoW ever can achieve, you can "finish" WoW, but you can't "finish" EVE.
Besides that, if you look at LOTRO, a more similar game to WoW, they pump out at least as much content as WoW, and they have alot less players indeed. Still they make good profits.
Lastly, EVE is growing more steadily and faster than WoW, so I predict that EVE will surpass WoW in the year 2030
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
The ops title makes no sense.. if they are #1 they won't close the doors.. if they don't close the doors that means wow will be running for all of eternity.. The title of the post makes no sense at all, critical think a little man.. just a little..
It's time that you start playing WOW again.
Before talking about "OPTIONS".
Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".
---- > Ok Here we go:
Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.
Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.
Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).
Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.
Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.
And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.
City Raids that give achievements and awards.
So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it?
)) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.
And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....
I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).
Others play for even other titles and achievements.
OLD wow was all about gear.
WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.
Apparenly you don't even know it. (by not playing it and see the evident facts).
You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.
Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.
First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling.
))
Your choice.
Bullshit! It's all about gear and you know it. Stop blowing smoke up peoples ass dude. people play to gear up characters.
You wanna talk about achievements and titles? it means nothing
What do meaningless options matter when the entire game revolves around item farming?
Why do u arena? items off a vendor
Why do u run BGs? Items off a vendor
Why do you run dungeons? Item drops
Why do you farm heroics? Tokens for items off a vendor
Why do you raid? Item Drops and Tokens for items off a vendor
Why do you farm rep? Items off a vendor
Why do you run wintergrasp? Items off a vendor
Why do level to cap? So you can collect pretty item drops and items off a vendor
ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
might as well go play Diablo.
Why have options if the goal is always the same?
I had written a huge post on why most of those points are wrong, but Firefox decided to have a nice crash on me.
Anyway, I'll just say the TL;DR version of it:
Achievements and titles are not meaningless.
A Gladiator or a guild with Death's Demise will be famous server-wide or even battlegroup-wide. People will go "Oh shit" when they see one in BGs,WG or WPvP.
You cannot get those titles without having an extremely skilled and dedicated team and this is a fact. The amount of coordonation you need for Yogg Saron 0 25man, even post nerf, is rather extreme..
That little title can and change your gameplay itself. People will respect you more, they'll look for you more, they'll talk with/talk about you more and you'll genrally have higher priority over people without them(for example, what do you think a current season Gladiator is gonna choose for high-rated arena. A player with great gear and only 1800 or a Gladiator from BC with average gear. I guarantee you 100% that it will be the BC gladiator).
If this doesn't have a meaning...
Also, if you don't raid, do WG and play arena for fun...then you might as not play it at all. Gear is very easy to get and the difference between hardmode/normalmode and 1800/2200 arena items is rather insignificant(but still noticeable).
People who attempt hardmodes/try to get gladiator will not do it for gear. They'll do it for the "meaningless titles", challenge and fun.
You really seem to be burnt out with WoW, but that doesn't mean we all share the same "ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!" ideology.
What makes WoW #1 ??? Numbers? I don't play it so it's not #1 in my book...
Hasn't anyone noticed the paradox in the title?
Why would anyone shut down a game that was #1?
Shouldn't the title be "Wow will never shut its doors because it will remain #1 forever?"
Stating it that way - seems a little more ludicrous. Someday, although not in the forseeable future, WoW will lose it's spot at #1 and will eventually have to shut down.
Seems to me that the OP has to prove somehow that A. Wow will remain #1 in perpetuity and B. The doors will be shut despite all this.
Anyway.......
Go WoW!
I was going to post that as well, brilliant business sense to close down the #1 game and lose out on all that money. But I guess they're just so super awesome they can do that, just for the sake of doing it.
I personally can't bring myself to look at WoW anymore but yes it is number one in just about everything that is MMO except graphics, sound.
Also the gear thing is silly since every fantasy MMO could be labelled the same way. I do not play an MMO for the end game gear grind. In fact, thats when I reroll or cancel. I play to explore a class and the world... once. Once I've seen it all, and I want to see it all, I'm out.
Where WoW caters to more of its player base than other MMOs is that its dungeon/raid system allows a more open choice. Others are very gear gated, WoW offers an "easy" mode and a "hardcore" mode. More access means more reason to stay subbed. Also slow released means casual players aren't overwhelmed to keep up. Which is what in the end killed EQ. Too much content too fast. EQ2's fault is too much gating keeping players out of the content they do release.
WoW is number one because despite their engine faults... they make very little dumb dumbs otherwise. Well the sparkly quest/mat thing is really badly done but again falls under graphics. If WoW looked like WAR, ouch Blizz would still have me by the nuts.
They are making an all new MMO based on a new IP. That is the rumour.
Knowing how Blizz does its own development work, we can only wait, they never feel the need to hurry. Anything they put onto shelves or downloading websites, will sell like hotcakes. Their reputation alone will carry their games a long long way.
I am also impatient to try out Diablo 3, knowing it is a sequel. Sequel or not, Blizz games has so far make me and my friends very happy.
I agree that Blizzard makes quality games. Diablo remains my second favorite action rpg game ever. And I know about their upcoming mmo (probably released in 2015 knowing blizzard). Still, it has been a long time since they have created anything new, heck even WoW is based after the RTS series. Personally I wish they would create another rts game, that genre has been lacking lately in my opinion.
This paragraph right here folks is exactly what I was talking about earlier in the thread. Sorry to centre you out Solude, but you have only demonstrated your lack of experience with other mmos.
No, every fantasy game cannot be labelled the same way. I'm sorry the ones you have had the opportunity to sample have been all focused on gear, but that is not the reality with all other games. The whole point is though, many of us have no desire to continue to see game after game being released with the intention of taking on WOW. Or at the very least copy as much as they can from the damn thing. You have to understand that those of us that have played WOW and have grown tired enough with it not to return, are desperate for some innovation.
All forms of entertainment will shrivel up and die eventually without any innovation. Music, TV, and Video Games included.
The WOW mentality actually reminds me of something from Physics...
inertia n. Physics . The tendency of a body to resist acceleration; the tendency of a body at rest to remain at rest or of a body in straight line.
Sounds spot on to me.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Sounds great but the game is still about gear grinds and repetitve gameplay (unfortunately a hallmark of mmos). I would consider playing WoW again actually but the graphics would need to be improved 100x. A friend bought me a game card a couple weeks ago so I decided to give the game a go again. I played 30 minutes and logged off. I haven't played it again and a big part of it is how aged the game looks. It is especially apparent when you have taken a long time off from the game and played more recent games. The other part was just the repetitive gameplay, I just got bored of playing it. The carrots don't taste as good as they did before.
It's time that you start playing WOW again.
Before talking about "OPTIONS".
Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".
---- > Ok Here we go:
Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.
Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.
Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).
Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.
Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.
And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.
City Raids that give achievements and awards.
So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it?
)) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.
And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....
I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).
Others play for even other titles and achievements.
OLD wow was all about gear.
WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.
Apparenly you don't even know it. (by not playing it and see the evident facts).
You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.
Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.
First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling.
))
Your choice.
Bullshit! It's all about gear and you know it. Stop blowing smoke up peoples ass dude. people play to gear up characters.
You wanna talk about achievements and titles? it means nothing
What do meaningless options matter when the entire game revolves around item farming?
Why do u arena? items off a vendor
Why do u run BGs? Items off a vendor
Why do you run dungeons? Item drops
Why do you farm heroics? Tokens for items off a vendor
Why do you raid? Item Drops and Tokens for items off a vendor
Why do you farm rep? Items off a vendor
Why do you run wintergrasp? Items off a vendor
Why do level to cap? So you can collect pretty item drops and items off a vendor
ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
might as well go play Diablo.
Why have options if the goal is always the same?
I had written a huge post on why most of those points are wrong, but Firefox decided to have a nice crash on me.
Anyway, I'll just say the TL;DR version of it:
Achievements and titles are not meaningless.
A Gladiator or a guild with Death's Demise will be famous server-wide or even battlegroup-wide. People will go "Oh shit" when they see one in BGs,WG or WPvP.
You cannot get those titles without having an extremely skilled and dedicated team and this is a fact. The amount of coordonation you need for Yogg Saron 0 25man, even post nerf, is rather extreme..
That little title can and change your gameplay itself. People will respect you more, they'll look for you more, they'll talk with/talk about you more and you'll genrally have higher priority over people without them(for example, what do you think a current season Gladiator is gonna choose for high-rated arena. A player with great gear and only 1800 or a Gladiator from BC with average gear. I guarantee you 100% that it will be the BC gladiator).
If this doesn't have a meaning...
Also, if you don't raid, do WG and play arena for fun...then you might as not play it at all. Gear is very easy to get and the difference between hardmode/normalmode and 1800/2200 arena items is rather insignificant(but still noticeable).
People who attempt hardmodes/try to get gladiator will not do it for gear. They'll do it for the "meaningless titles", challenge and fun.
You really seem to be burnt out with WoW, but that doesn't mean we all share the same "ITEMS OFF A VENDOR!!!" ideology.
If you took the nice items out of hardmode 25 mans noone would do them, not even just for titles/achievements.
Sure there might be a few random people that want the title but overall its for items. The 10 and 25 man hardmodes give better gear so people do them, shit like titles and achievements are just extras but the main focus has and always will be gear.
For a person that's played MMOs for a very long time I want more.
PLaying: EvE, Ryzom
Waiting For: Earthrise, Perpetuum
Like what exactly? What more do you want out of a game that's primarily PvE focused. WoW is not a PvP game, no matter how hard people want it to be. It has PvP elements (BG's, arenas) but it's core focus is and always will be PvE because that is what a majority of it's playerbase wants. So again, what more out of a PvE focused game are you wanting that WoW does not provide?
I can't help but think your name is a bit ironic after this statement...
After reading the rest of your OP, maybe you should change it to "revenuluva", since, as you say, that's the only thing that matters in the world.
Edit: also of note is the fact that you claim to be a "MMOluva", yet can't be bothered to play and level a toon, yourself. "I love MMO's... just don't like playing them..."
No lack of XP. I have capped toons in many major MMOs released since UO and months of time in others. I played to cap UO, AC, EQ, DAoC, CoX, AC2, EQ2, WoW, WAR, LotRO, TR. Have also played FFXI, L2, Aion, CO, AoC, VG, RoM, DDO, AO. Probably missed some but short of it is I have been playing MMOs since 97 and nothing else other than Bioware RPGs once through.
You also misread my post. The focus on gear is a player driven focus. The focus that WoW brought to the table was that of a theme park. The gear grind will always be in the players head not dev design. And yes every MMO released since the dawn of time can be played by the player as a gear grind. But its a choice, not a requirement in most MMOs. In EQ2 though it is the reality, you cannot experience the bulk of the content end game without grinding the same handful of raids. But then thats just one of the reasons WoW can retain the casual base and other MMOs can't.
Problem is I can't stomach it any more, but I'm not fool enough to believe that any other MMO has overtaken WoW in other department other than graphics.
These threads are, rather, pointless and mundane. It's all subjective. Who cares. I enjoy WoW but I am taking a break from it until CAT is released.
It's time that you start playing WOW again.
Before talking about "OPTIONS".
Let's see what "options" are in WOW 2009 purely on a PvP basis. So called "added as an afterthought".
---- > Ok Here we go:
Have a choice between 2 BG's with 80 people (AV and ISle), have 3 BG's with 30 people and have a 20 people BG.
Have a massively played 240 people Siege system every 2.5 Hours in a world PvP zone where people fight 24/7 for resources and mats on PvP servers and that give acces to shard drops and vendor and a 3 raid bosses.
Have hi end world PvP daily quests throughout Northrend (because we talk end game here).
Have multiple Arena formats in numurous setting from 2vs2, 3vs 3 to 5 vs 5 in a ladder based COMPETITION giving hi end dragon mounts and world rankings. So forget 'grinding". Not possible: only skill.
Have an out of the game PvP competition with EQUAL to choose gear and ... 200.000 dollars price money.
And in Cata: a new guild leveling PvP system, a new rated PvP system (ladder based) in the BAttlegrounds, a new open world PvP zone and at least one new Battleground.
City Raids that give achievements and awards.
So Mr .... OPTIONS. Not bad for a PVE game isnt it?
)) . Having to fight to get a ladder based ranking is something other than meaningless zerg fests you can't control anyway.
And hear hear : not a gear discussion in sight....
I play PvP to get me a Justicar title or Battlemaster Title or those other prestigious PvP titles (ranking from Conqueror to Gladiator and others in between).
Others play for even other titles and achievements.
OLD wow was all about gear.
WOW 2009 is ALL about options and achievements with prestigious mounts. Gear is just a means to an end these days.
Apparenly you don't even know it. (by not playing it and see the evident facts).
You ask for a game with options; here they are and you don't even see them.
Edit: To anwser your question: I have a new lvl 14 chararcter I am gonne level through all of Azroth a last time. Started naked on a new server and ...16 Hours played on lvl 14 and 22 gold by playing the auction house and crafting and of course all other professions at 80 or higher.
First learn to play the game as it should be (or as in just another "OPTION" of play). It is SOOOO nice to sell those beginners swords. Yep it ALL works in WOW. I was proud in wearing my new self crafted maces and I level in.... ADVENTURING instead of leveling.
))
Your choice
Have these PvP elements been implemented? mainly the 240 siege system?
I play EVE and gonna go play Mortal Online whenever it comes out.
Wow is #1 no doubt and many of my friends play it on a full time frame, they go for kills, epics and all of it.
But listen to me, for me #1 is EVE, for the freedom and fun that it undoubiously brings to the players (along with some maths)
Dont get me wrong, I think WoW is able to surpasse its competitors by adding new features, as it did with WAR, but it has nothing to do with the features EVE & Mortal Online present straight on.
So it is WoW is great, but not that great.
It is a question of fangs.
I for one don't enjoy WoW at all anymore. But this is a load of BS. WoW will not remain number 1 until they shut it down. As all games before it WoW will be toppled eventually. I cannot say if that will happen in a week, a month, or even years but sooner or later it will happen. Thats what happens in life, and especially in gaming.
how do you know it wont just shut down before it gets toppled then?
how do you know it wont just shut down before it gets toppled then?
Yeah right. Blizz will shut down the biggest money maker in MMO's.
how do you know it wont just shut down before it gets toppled then?
Yeah right. Blizz will shut down the biggest money maker in MMO's.
I have to agree. Blizz is very good in teh marketing department and wouldnt make a stupid decision to shut it dow suddenly. Especially when they are making a new MMO to meet a new crowd not to save there WoW players.
Titanic is the highest grossing film of all time. Therefor, it is the best movie of all time.
(that's what i think of WoW).
They're number 1 in bringing the most money. That's a fact, but it does not necessarily relate to quality. McDonalds makes more money worldwide than any other restaurant..... make of that what you will.
Speak for yourself, please.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
In business revenue IS the most important thing.
Not so good statement.
Because Titanic didn't have 20 times MORE grossing than the second movie.
1.2 billion dollars yearly revenu (times 5 years) for WOW only ...., compared to the usual 10 -20 million dollars revenu for the other ones. And it goes way further than MMO's...
Look at it this way/ COD2 broke ALL past records because they could break 500 million dollars on the launching week. Never seen before and a nice add on to the 3 billion US dollars .... the COMPLETE franchise of COD across ALL platforms (from handhelds to consoles to PC's) had in 6 years time.
WOW brings in 1.2 billion dollars ... each year. Do the count: 5 years and still running...
So IF Titanic made 20 times more money than other films and 3 times more money than ALL other movies of the past 5 years together,....
Yep ... if this would occur it would be clear that X was indeed the undisputed King product by a long shot.
I'm sorry bu this is an idiotic argument. My point was, that most grossing has nothing to do with quality. You in turn argue, the MORE money you make, the MORE QUALITY.
Take your own analogy and apply it to Titanic. Are you saying if Titanic made as much money as WoW does compared to the next game (or next movie), it magically makes Titanic the best movie of all time?
The most money doesn't mean best.
Apply your own analogy to McDonalds. McDonalds makes the most money, there it is the most profitable Restaurant. Is it the healthiest? Nope.
Edit: Compare Transformers 2 to No Country for Old Men. One clearly made more money than the other, but one of the two wasn't best picture of the year.