And the house of cards come crashing down with the realization that TOR will be a SINGLE PLAYER game that you pay $15 a month to play. I've got to tip my hat to Bioware, this is a great scam. Get all the KOTOR fans and Star Wars fan nuts to buy your game and charge them a monthly fee for what will essentially be KOTOR 3. Bravo. I'm not falling for it, but enough people are that it's sure to make a mint. As a capitalist, I'm highly supportive of taking advantage of the stupidity of the common masses.
Does it ever end? Really? Are we still doing this?
Alright as usual I'll bite, how is this a single player game? What qualities does this game have that make it into a single player game? And single player as opposed to what, give me something to compare this game which is 'single player' to a massive multiplayer game.
Then after you do that, please tell me once again how is the fact that Bioware has said there will be cities, and non instanced pvp zones like Ord Martell fits in with your idea of this non massive game. Or That there will be raids.
You know what I'll save you the trouble.
The game is partially instanced? Oh boy that's totally new and outrageous right? My god how dare they make sure I enjoy some dramatic tension without people going lolololol i ned gold plx. The game is not fully instanced, just certain events, and people can group for those quests. I guess grouping isn't multiplayer because that is not a real person on the other end you're grouping with its a secret android to make you think its a real person yeah that must be it.
The game has story? So wait....how is giving the universe you play in meaning, where npc's don't just stand there and say the same text over and over? How is making me love my environment, because I can really get into the depth of the world by giving me choices/consequences as opposed to just do this without a reason why. Yeah you know that is fun, doing crazy quests because someone told me to, story gives me a real reason.
I feel like you people don't read interviews or reviews and just take short quotes and use them out of context to support your views which have no real backing. Like I said go on, provide me some proof give me a full link to a real article saying that there will be no grouping, no raiding, no interacting in a city, or no pvp in a non instanced zone. Go on give me some article from a reliable source, come on if you guys all think your opinions are infallible that you have to yell them enough to warn us of the horrid of its single player gameness, then go on show me an article. I mean if you believe in your claims that much, you should have some sort of backing to it no?
Who cares if it's single-player? BioWare makes single-player games that are worth the commitment, I'd pay 15 dollars a month for a single-player game with added content monthly, especially if it was by BioWare.
And the house of cards come crashing down with the realization that TOR will be a SINGLE PLAYER game that you pay $15 a month to play. I've got to tip my hat to Bioware, this is a great scam. Get all the KOTOR fans and Star Wars fan nuts to buy your game and charge them a monthly fee for what will essentially be KOTOR 3. Bravo. I'm not falling for it, but enough people are that it's sure to make a mint. As a capitalist, I'm highly supportive of taking advantage of the stupidity of the common masses.
K 1st off this isn't just for u. It's for all the ppl who just want to Troll. Go buy a Mag or what u don't got the 7 dollor's while then let me fill u in on a few thing's. Dana is talking about being the new class in the Noob area. NOT ONLY WILL u have diff buddie's depending on how u treat your buddie will determ if another person would want to join u in your quest and yes u caan even get a a understudy (Pad) Some one if u are a Sith might one day try to take you out to become the Master if he fill's u are getting to (Light Side choices) weak.. But of corse wait there is crafting and AH's and PvP wait no that can't be because u guy's are saing it's a Single player game. Hmm strange hmm wonder how a single player game will have PvP and fighting for a plantet control. Guess it must be somethig new called what ever u guy's want to TROLL and run your mouth before u even get all the Fact's. Go out buy the new Game Mag's or wait for a Reveiw of a indepth Hands -on preveiw not a hands-on the new class in a Demo pre-made toon. The Story Side is a new part to MMO's that is going to have all you Power lv ppl upset of corse because u don't care about the story just getting to 50 1st so u can say hey look at me I can gank u lol and be the biggest Di** around. AND THEY PUT OUT A 2010 Releise no more TBA hehe of corse this could mean 12/25/10 Lmao and be pushed back to 2011 But here's Hoping for a Summer 2010 Release
Does it ever end? Really? Are we still doing this? Alright as usual I'll bite, how is this a single player game? What qualities does this game have that make it into a single player game? And single player as opposed to what, give me something to compare this game which is 'single player' to a massive multiplayer game. Then after you do that, please tell me once again how is the fact that Bioware has said there will be cities, and non instanced pvp zones like Ord Martell fits in with your idea of this non massive game. Or That there will be raids. You know what I'll save you the trouble. The game is partially instanced? Oh boy that's totally new and outrageous right? My god how dare they make sure I enjoy some dramatic tension without people going lolololol i ned gold plx. The game is not fully instanced, just certain events, and people can group for those quests. I guess grouping isn't multiplayer because that is not a real person on the other end you're grouping with its a secret android to make you think its a real person yeah that must be it. The game has story? So wait....how is giving the universe you play in meaning, where npc's don't just stand there and say the same text over and over? How is making me love my environment, because I can really get into the depth of the world by giving me choices/consequences as opposed to just do this without a reason why. Yeah you know that is fun, doing crazy quests because someone told me to, story gives me a real reason. I feel like you people don't read interviews or reviews and just take short quotes and use them out of context to support your views which have no real backing. Like I said go on, provide me some proof give me a full link to a real article saying that there will be no grouping, no raiding, no interacting in a city, or no pvp in a non instanced zone. Go on give me some article from a reliable source, come on if you guys all think your opinions are infallible that you have to yell them enough to warn us of the horrid of its single player gameness, then go on show me an article. I mean if you believe in your claims that much, you should have some sort of backing to it no?
The short answer to what you're asking is that people like me, who have been playing MMOs for more than a decade, are able to recognize this stuff when they see it after being scammed several times by SOE, Mythic, and Funcom.
This is a single player game. It might have multiplayer elements, but so do most single player games out there, and you don't have to pay a monthly fee to play online. Instances don't have anything to do with it. The fact of the matter is, story or not, instances or not, you're going to be playing most of this game solo. If I wanted a story, I would play a single player game, or I would read a book. MMOs are supposed to be about other people, real people, not dialogue option 3 combined with dialogue option 2 and dialogue option 1 from previous NPC conversations.
Oh, you're a Jedi? Me too! Did you pick dialogue option series 3,2,5,2,1,3 or series 2,4,2,2,1? Really?! Me too!
It's just so sad. And that's not even getting into its executive producer who was fired from SOE for his handling of the outcry against the NGE in SWG. But we don't need to go into that; it speaks for itself.
I don't feel like I have to warn anyone. Buy the game. Pay Bioware $15 a month for a generic "MMO" with a star wars skin. I promise I don't care. I'm just enjoying this massive hype that's going to come crashing down when the game launches.
Who cares if it's single-player? BioWare makes single-player games that are worth the commitment, I'd pay 15 dollars a month for a single-player game with added content monthly, especially if it was by BioWare
Well, I wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but single player games with multiplayer elements should be a one time purchase with optional DLC at best.
But you go right ahead and buy it. Like I said, I fully support their ability to get people to give them money.
K 1st off this isn't just for u. It's for all the ppl who just want to Troll. Go buy a Mag or what u don't got the 7 dollor's while then let me fill u in on a few thing's. Dana is talking about being the new class in the Noob area. NOT ONLY WILL u have diff buddie's depending on how u treat your buddie will determ if another person would want to join u in your quest and yes u caan even get a a understudy (Pad) Some one if u are a Sith might one day try to take you out to become the Master if he fill's u are getting to (Light Side choices) weak.. But of corse wait there is crafting and AH's and PvP wait no that can't be because u guy's are saing it's a Single player game. Hmm strange hmm wonder how a single player game will have PvP and fighting for a plantet control. Guess it must be somethig new called what ever u guy's want to TROLL and run your mouth before u even get all the Fact's. Go out buy the new Game Mag's or wait for a Reveiw of a indepth Hands -on preveiw not a hands-on the new class in a Demo pre-made toon. The Story Side is a new part to MMO's that is going to have all you Power lv ppl upset of corse because u don't care about the story just getting to 50 1st so u can say hey look at me I can gank u lol and be the biggest Di** around. AND THEY PUT OUT A 2010 Releise no more TBA hehe of corse this could mean 12/25/10 Lmao and be pushed back to 2011 But here's Hoping for a Summer 2010 Release
There's so much /fail here I don't even know where to start.
Please, buy the game. Make someone else rich. I'm going to reevaluate my stock options and start investing in Bioware. They've clearly figured out how to dupe the common clay.
I love this stuff. It's like eating lobster in a fancy sea food restaurant knowing that people who make a tiny fraction of your net worth every year are keeping their ilk in line and working for their next bread crumb.
I highly support other people buying this game. It's just that I believe in honesty so that when I go to sleep at night, I can say that I told people, but they made a decision that lead them to their current fate.
*Maybe* 1% of the MMO community gives a rat's arse about the "story" in these games. They will blow past the story driven aspects of this game as quickly as they can so they can move along with the level grind. You really have to ask yourself how arrogant Bioware is to think the larger portion of their player base will even care about all the money and effort they put into the voiceovers and cut scenes and whatever other 'interactive' story features they put in. The people who bought and played the KOTOR RPGs are not today's greater MMO population. From this point of view Bioware would have been better off just putting more playable areas and standard quests in the game than wasting time on all this "story" garbage.
What about replayability in a game with so much story? Sure, maybe a decent number of people will slow down to enjoy the story for the first 20 levels or so, but what about when they reroll? I hope Bioware has a skip key for all that stuff or it will be the first big demand you will hear on the forums. At the end of the day, the WoW generation that will buy this game wants to hit level cap and get the best loot. That's it. They are also more likely to watch "Big Brother" on TV instead of the Discovery Channel.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
AMEN Brother I would Still be playing KoToR 1 Hell I would still be playin 2 if it was Adding content Lmfao wait I do still go back and play both of them every now and again. There was a Site where we kept up with KoToR for years after it left us and of corse in 1999 we hear That Lucasarts Has went into to discuss with Bioware and Obliv to see which one would work on a New project a Poss. KoToR 3 which as we know now is ToR. So yes I beleave there would be alot ppl who wouldn't care less But That isn't the case Bioware Isn't a stupid Co. They know what a MMO is and what it need's to be for the "Today Gamer" It won't be a Massive fail Like Aion is.( though there looking up with The Future of Aion Vid they put out.)Of corse Lucasart is going to be a Part of a Lucas IP Come on that common sense ppl.So yes there will be Housing , Crafting while I put that all in before.
Who cares if it's single-player? BioWare makes single-player games that are worth the commitment, I'd pay 15 dollars a month for a single-player game with added content monthly, especially if it was by BioWare.
Who cares if it's single-player? BioWare makes single-player games that are worth the commitment, I'd pay 15 dollars a month for a single-player game with added content monthly, especially if it was by BioWare
Well, I wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but single player games with multiplayer elements should be a one time purchase with optional DLC at best.
But you go right ahead and buy it. Like I said, I fully support their ability to get people to give them money.
True it would have to be a FTP "MMO" if in fact it was that way.
I Agree with u Aakara (srry for the mis spellin) Aion is better Solo because the take 60% of your xp away for grouping and any MMO can be Single player WoW included of corse I play all MMO's with my Brother and other family and friend's and ToR will be no diff and they wouldn't have Guild's and Guild sign up's on there Home page for ToR for a Single player game just ppl wanting to get ppl fired up about nothing.(Troll) to many of them these's day's The new MMOers WoW barren Chat u just can't get away from it no matter what MMO u go to.
Maybe you will be playing this game solo, but most of my rl friends will be playing with me, so I don't share your views. And whose to say that this game will be nothing but solo content? Whose to say there won't be group quests/instances/raids in some form? I believe they did say in an interview there would be raids, so I'm not sure how its all solo, or even mostly solo.
If you don't want to group or enjoy the community in the cities that is your choice, but saying that just because you can tackle x quest without a group makes it not multiplayer isn't faulty logic for the accepted definition of what an MMORPG means. An MMORPG isn't a game where you have to group, I'm not sure where that idea came about, because that idea has been long gone. Instead its a game where tons of people share the same universe in a world together, and whether they choose to group is there choice.
I know that i'll be grouping a lot with my friends and anyone else in the community that wants to. I enjoy the idea of people having an active vote/say in the conversation with an npc. This seems amazing to me for both immersion and fun, where all the people in my group have a say in the conversation at hand. So given that your group has a say in a conversation for your quest as well, how does that exactly make it single player? I see people having input with other peoples quests, to me that looks like it multiplayer.
If you would rather use a less offensive term for the game, say that you don't like that you can solo, don't go spouting asinine statements saying its single player. Its not single player, and if your classification is any game where there is content you want to do that you don't have to group for...lets see let me list a lot of single player games.
All sandbox games, I don't have to group for the content I want to do, because its what I want to do, I don't need to group. Mortal online, Darkfall, hell lets say pre NGE SWG for you vets out there. Alright lets also say themeparks EQII, Wow, Aion, Guild Wars, FFXI[Now that they nerfed it] AoC, War. Has it sunk in yet that your classification of 'single player' is faulty logic?
According to your logic all those games for the very reason of content I want to do are also single player, do you agree? If yes then alright what game are you playing? If no, then you admit your logic is faulty.
1.) The short answer to what you're asking is that people like me, who have been playing MMOs for more than a decade, are able to recognize this stuff when they see it after being scammed several times by SOE, Mythic, and Funcom.
2.) This is a single player game. It might have multiplayer elements, but so do most single player games out there, and you don't have to pay a monthly fee to play online. Instances don't have anything to do with it. The fact of the matter is, story or not, instances or not, you're going to be playing most of this game solo.
3.) If I wanted a story, I would play a single player game, or I would read a book. MMOs are supposed to be about other people, real people, not dialogue option 3 combined with dialogue option 2 and dialogue option 1 from previous NPC conversations.
4.) It's just so sad. And that's not even getting into its executive producer who was fired from SOE for his handling of the outcry against the NGE in SWG. But we don't need to go into that; it speaks for itself.
5.) I don't feel like I have to warn anyone. Buy the game. Pay Bioware $15 a month for a generic "MMO" with a star wars skin. I promise I don't care. I'm just enjoying this massive hype that's going to come crashing down when the game launches.
1.) While people like me recognize those listed companies just make bad games, maybe not in the past. They're out of there league anymore, they can't catch up.
2.) If you choose so, who gives a damn really? Are you CHOOSING to take the solo experience? If so, shut the hell up, the idea of a MMO is to play with people, meet new people and to progress your character. If you can't meet people or bring people it's your problem, go play a SPRPG.
3.) So ToR should be like every other MMO out there? You jackasses need to group up in a room and discuss a decent argument where you can present proof and not your half thought out opinions. This is not the game for you. If you don't want a MMO that gives you choices find another MMO out there.
4.) The ironic part is the vets wanted SWG to be changed. Was you not on the boards to see the "It's not star warsy enough" arguments? You're absolutely oblivious aren't you? It needed a change, it was hemorrhaging subs every day. You vet's are just impossible to please, which is why you have a forum to sit in all day to talk about what you THINK you want, when in reality you haven't a clue.
5.) What are you talking about? What you see is people interested in playing the game currently. While people like you take offense to people finding something they may enjoy. Bro, if you don't like the game, again, find another game. I'll bet BioWare could care less about you, they're not targeting SWG vets, who the hell would?
Im not going to play by any of the eight story lines. Im going to leave the main hub/city and go explore all the worlds and planets and just grind mobs for exp and loot. Then a week later I start the raid content...and if I cant do that then its not an MMORPG. Its a Multiplayer Online Adventure Game (MOAG)... or something. LOTRO used the same technique of weaving of single player stories through an open world, but you dont have to follow the story. You can totally ignore it...if you so choose.
If you would rather use a less offensive term for the game, say that you don't like that you can solo, don't go spouting asinine statements saying its single player. Its not single player, and if your classification is any game where there is content you want to do that you don't have to group for...lets see let me list a lot of single player games. All sandbox games, I don't have to group for the content I want to do, because its what I want to do, I don't need to group. Mortal online, Darkfall, hell lets say pre NGE SWG for you vets out there. Alright lets also say themeparks EQII, Wow, Aion, Guild Wars, FFXI[Now that they nerfed it] AoC, War. Has it sunk in yet that your classification of 'single player' is faulty logic? According to your logic all those games for the very reason of content I want to do are also single player, do you agree? If yes then alright what game are you playing? If no, then you admit your logic is faulty.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, I'm going to call it as a duck. It's a single player game with multiplayer capability. You could argue that a lot of MMOs are like this, and I wouldn't disagree necessarily. But this one looks like KOTOR 3 with a monthly fee.
I would dispute pre NGE SWG as being single player. Even outside of groups, you had to rely on other people to heal, buff, and perform other services. I had two accounts at one point so I could fight and craft at the same time. Without other people to interact with, I never would have been able to join a city or run any number of instances in the game.
Some of the others are debatable, but for the most part, you're right, they are single player games in the sense that you don't need a group to level. However, TOR gets a special mention because it doesn't make any bones about it. There's no long term goal of cooperation with other players, it's a story driven RPG with a monthly fee.
Go for it. It's not my thing, but it's going to snare a lot of people initially.
Who cares if it's single-player? BioWare makes single-player games that are worth the commitment, I'd pay 15 dollars a month for a single-player game with added content monthly, especially if it was by BioWare
Well, I wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but single player games with multiplayer elements should be a one time purchase with optional DLC at best.
But you go right ahead and buy it. Like I said, I fully support their ability to get people to give them money.
I hate optional DLC, it's stupid. Companies are not going to give it to you at a good price or make enough of them. If they out with new content every month at 15 dollars a month, that's a pretty good deal.
I love Mass Effect, and I would go as far to say it's my favorite RPG I've ever played. How many DLC updates have they made? Two. Pinnacle Station and Bring Down The Sky. That's it, and that's also why I hate DLC. If The Old Republic was going to be single-player, I would have no problem, however it is not.
The Old Republic will not be a single-player experience.. BioWare is just attempting to incorporate the RPG into MMORPG.
Im not going to play by any of the eight story lines. Im going to leave the main hub/city and go explore all the worlds and planets and just grind mobs for exp and loot. Then a week later I start the raid content...and if I cant do that then its not an MMORPG. Its a Multiplayer Online Adventure Game (MOAG)... or something. LOTRO used the same technique of weaving of single player stories through an open world, but you dont have to follow the story. You can totally ignore it...if you so choose.
I'm not sure if they have that option. Before companions were a must, now they say companions are a option, they will still be on the sidelines if you should need them though. So if not, it could change. Even if they didn't that does not change this from MMO to a SP experience. I understand how just strait grinding mobs may be fun for some, but I really don't think that's BioWare goal. It seems they're trying to give the people that feel the grind is boring and repetitive a game that is the exact opposite, where the quests are involving and well thought.
Basically, mob grinding from start to finish does not make a MMO, to many it's seen as non-western. Try Aion.
I'm glad that you agree with me that all games even pre nge SWG is single player. Now because you agree alright under your logic this game and all future mmos are single player. Lets change the name of the site now, we should let the mods know that this site is useless because most mmorpg's listed are single player.
Yes pre nge swg is single player, you didn't have to group, you didn't need others to craft. Sure it saved you time/frustrations, but it wasn't like you had to, you could of done it all by yourself the entire time and struggled. Its not like you had to since there was no end game goal, just whatever you wanted the end game goal to be. So yes even SWG pre nge is single player so I'm glad that you had such a great experience in a single player game like SWG. Well since you had such a great experience in a single player game like SWG, I'm sure you'll have a fun experience in an also single player game like Tor, I look forwarding to seeing you in game Daed.
1.) While people like me recognize those listed companies just make bad games, maybe not in the past. They're out of there league anymore, they can't catch up. 2.) If you choose so, who gives a damn really? Are you CHOOSING to take the solo experience? If so, shut the hell up, the idea of a MMO is to play with people, meet new people and to progress your character. If you can't meet people or bring people it's your problem, go play a SPRPG. 3.) So ToR should be like every other MMO out there? You jackasses need to group up in a room and discuss a decent argument where you can present proof and not your half thought out opinions. This is not the game for you. If you don't want a MMO that gives you choices find another MMO out there. 4.) The ironic part is the vets wanted SWG to be changed. Was you not on the boards to see the "It's not star warsy enough" arguments? You're absolutely oblivious aren't you? It needed a change, it was hemorrhaging subs every day. You vet's are just impossible to please, which is why you have a forum to sit in all day to talk about what you THINK you want, when in reality you haven't a clue. 5.) What are you talking about? What you see is people interested in playing the game currently. While people like you take offense to people finding something they may enjoy. Bro, if you don't like the game, again, find another game. I'll bet BioWare could care less about you, they're not targeting SWG vets, who the hell would? Oh, see you in-game.
1. Hubris, plain and simple. Oh I was like you once, thinking that MY company could do no wrong. Ah youthful MMO experience...
2. People choose to do the easier thing, but this game basically IS a SPRPG.
3. We have. People don't like the truth because it forces them to examine their own preferences. You do have choices in this game, and they are dialogue options 1-5. If that's the kind of "choice" you want, great. Go for it.
4. I wasn't on the boards, actually, I was too busy playing the game. Before the NGE, the game was doing just fine with about 300k subs. Us vets weren't impossible to please, we just plain weren't listened to. WoW made people greedy, and that's what the NGE was about.
The truth of the matter is, we had it right, and the failure of SWG after the NGE proved us right, while SOE's public execution become TOR's executive producer. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the issue there.
5. I don't take offense to people finding something they might enjoy. In fact, I'm betting on it with stock in Bioware. I just feel the ethical need to point out that this is a scam. Disagree with me. I'm counting on it. I want you to buy this game. I just believe in being honest, and this is a scam.
It's just funny to me. You can be blatantly honest with people. You can warn them up and down, and STILL they make the stupid decision and make people like me rich.
Not that I'm complaining. I rely on the drones of the world to produce for my benefit and the benefit of others.
Please, enjoy the game, I hope a lot of people do, because I'll be watching the stock closely. If this becomes another WoW, I'll give a toast to it when my stock soars as a result.
I'm glad that you agree with me that all games even pre nge SWG is single player. Now because you agree alright under your logic this game and all future mmos are single player. Lets change the name of the site now, we should let the mods know that this site is useless because most mmorpg's listed are single player. Yes pre nge swg is single player, you didn't have to group, you didn't need others to craft. Sure it saved you time/frustrations, but it wasn't like you had to, you could of done it all by yourself the entire time and struggled. Its not like you had to since there was no end game goal, just whatever you wanted the end game goal to be. So yes even SWG pre nge is single player so I'm glad that you had such a great experience in a single player game like SWG. Well since you had such a great experience in a single player game like SWG, I'm sure you'll have a fun experience in an also single player game like Tor, I look forwarding to seeing you in game Daed.
No, that's not what I said. Pre-NGE SWG was very much an MMO. You needed other people to craft, group, and do a host of other activities. To do anything beyond the most basic activities required a group or at least the use of other people. There were so many people I counted on every day to provide me with basic services.
I'm not sure why I even bother to post. My words go unheaded and misinterpreted.
"...deliver that authentic Star Wars experience first" I think that is one of the great division amongst potential players. People who want to play in the Star Wars universe, and people who want to play in a Star Wars movie, eh? Its not a question of right or wrong, but of preference. That being said, my preference is to be in the universe, not the movie and a lot of what has been presented so far has been discouraging. The idea of MY char (in an MMO especially where its supposed to be MY char, not merely the sole protagonist in a standalone rpg that I happen to be in control of) is voice acted seems off-putting, with how I approach MMO's. Still we'll see. Hope there is a free trial after this game launches.
Can I be honest, the I idea that I could create a character and actually 'live' in the SW universe is what excited me about SWG back in the day. This also lead me to go buy a new computer and Star Wars Galaxies together and launched my time in MMO's. I can remember getting goose bumps (yeah, I'm that kind of nerd) when I heard the SW theme the first time I booted up SWG. For all the game's faults, they did let me live and carve my niche in the SW universe. Then came the "iconic" rhetoric out of SOE and the game went south for me from there. I understand that the structure, cannon, etc. all comes from the same source but man the idea of being able to actually live in that universe is what I always wanted when I was a kid watching the movies.
Sadly, I hear the same "iconic" rhetoric from Bioware and I start getting bummed. Lets say they provide me with the framework to be an actual smuggler. They set down the skills, create the items to be smuggled and the smuggling dynamics etc. and then let me go to work. From there my story and my "renown" as a character is up to me. Same with Jedi etc. I don't want to be told my story, I want to write it myself. *sigh* As I've said in other posts, it's SW and I'm going to play it but I'm not really as excited as I'd hoped I'd be.
Excellently stated.
I agree with Airwen too. The idea of me being able to create my own persona in the SW universe and tell their story, and having the latitude to decide what that story is as opposed to being handed a handfull of "iconic" classes (My story was of a neutral doctor selling his wares and working in a series of medical Centers on several planets, creating his own medical pharmaceuticals empire) was the appealing part to me.
I don't want to be Harrision Ford's character or Mark Hamil's. Those roles have already been done. I want to make up my own, and choose what that person did (which as described above did not fall into any of the "iconic" classes). That's why I loved SWG pre-nge. Koster gave me the ability to really tell my SW story.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Nope that's your logic in the works. You say you needed a group, I say you didn't its entirely player choice, they didn't have to rely on others. And saying you needed to rely on others for crafting materials isn't a very good argument. I need an auction house for rare drops that I don't feel like farming in any game, I never have to communicate with real people.
You agreed with me earlier that wow is a single player, and it has a very real auction house system along with a very real crafting system that needs groups/goods to get the tokens/items from raids. Since you defined wow as a single player in your earlier statement because you don't need to group to level, that makes your argument on crafting null and void by the same logic. You can't have your cake and eat it too I'm afraid in this instance, to have one you can not have the other.
Now because leveling or as you say basic activities didn't need a group, and crafting certainly doesn't count, what does that leave you? That...seems strangely familiar...almost like this game called the old republic, I wonder what that could be? It seems like you might need a group for higher end content like raids, or pvp zones...hmmm...strange....so because you need a group for end game content its not single player? So wait...now you're retracting your statement and saying end game matters and makes a game multiplayer? Well I'm glad you see it my way, I hope to see you in Tor.
I would just like to say thank you for proving me right, I truly do appreciate it.
The Old Republic will not be a single-player experience.. BioWare is just attempting to incorporate the RPG into MMORPG.
Because players can't be trusted to make their own stories.
This is just so sad...
But I'm over it. Please. Buy the game. Make me and Bioware money.
Who said you can't? Linear and non-linear can persist within an MMO game. I don't really care too much, if I end up not enjoying SW:TOR then I will be leaving this genre behind.
1. Hubris, plain and simple. Oh I was like you once, thinking that MY company could do no wrong. Ah youthful MMO experience... Apparently you don't know me very well, I acknowledge BioWare can fail, I also see the opportunity to succeed. Don't insist you was like me, that makes me a bit embarrassed to know how far a person can sink into stupidity while advancing into the future. 2. People choose to do the easier thing, but this game basically IS a SPRPG. People choose what makes them happy, which is a big problem with people apparently. Are you seriously this upset people may have fun, alone? Oh my, anways, basically it IS how? 3. We have. People don't like the truth because it forces them to examine their own preferences. You do have choices in this game, and they are dialogue options 1-5. If that's the kind of "choice" you want, great. Go for it. I'm glad to see you know what preference means. Hopefully you can apply that here and come to understand people may prefer a MMO like ToR. If not, find another forum. Of coarse being given 1-5 choices is what I want. If the captain of the ship pisses me off I'm capable of decapitating him. What's the problem here? 4. I wasn't on the boards, actually, I was too busy playing the game. Before the NGE, the game was doing just fine with about 300k subs. Us vets weren't impossible to please, we just plain weren't listened to. WoW made people greedy, and that's what the NGE was about. Same routine BS. I've seen it plenty times to identify it. WoW didn't make people greedy, it set a goal for every MMORPG maker to follow, and the list goes, Polish, Fun, Long-term play, User Friendly, Progression. None of these SWG had. Trust me, player made content is absolute rubbish. If you fancy rubbish, return, or find a new game. The truth of the matter is, we had it right, and the failure of SWG after the NGE proved us right, while SOE's public execution become TOR's executive producer. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the issue there. Major difference being SWG was not meant to be ToR, people that stayed with SWG before the CU or NGE liked the game as it was. ToR is meant to be ToR, therefore it will be ToR and those looking for the ToR experience will hop on the wagon watching and waiting. 5. I don't take offense to people finding something they might enjoy. In fact, I'm betting on it with stock in Bioware. I just feel the ethical need to point out that this is a scam. Disagree with me. I'm counting on it. I want you to buy this game. I just believe in being honest, and this is a scam. Oh please, bore me with your conspiracy theories. BioWare is not trying and never has tryed to swindle anybody. SWG was a scam, it's been how many years and those same bugs are still present? Can you count the empty promises they have made as well?
It's just funny to me. You can be blatantly honest with people. You can warn them up and down, and STILL they make the stupid decision and make people like me rich. Not that I'm complaining. I rely on the drones of the world to produce for my benefit and the benefit of others. Please, enjoy the game, I hope a lot of people do, because I'll be watching the stock closely. If this becomes another WoW, I'll give a toast to it when my stock soars as a result. Oh do you? Well allow me to welcome you to the "drone" community, didn't SoE bait you in? Good luck with those "stocks". I'm sure everything you're saying is truth and not fabricated bullshit.
The Old Republic will not be a single-player experience.. BioWare is just attempting to incorporate the RPG into MMORPG.
Because players can't be trusted to make their own stories.
This is just so sad...
But I'm over it. Please. Buy the game. Make me and Bioware money.
No, they can't. You're story is god awful, which is why you're on the forums complaining and not actually creating a story of your own. By all means continue to fail.
Nope that's your logic in the works. You say you needed a group, I say you didn't its entirely player choice, they didn't have to rely on others. And saying you needed to rely on others for crafting materials isn't a very good argument. I need an auction house for rare drops that I don't feel like farming in any game, I never have to communicate with real people. You agreed with me earlier that wow is a single player, and it has a very real auction house system along with a very real crafting system that needs groups/goods to get the tokens/items from raids. Since you defined wow as a single player in your earlier statement because you don't need to group to level, that makes your argument on crafting null and voice by the same logic. You can't have your cake and eat it too I'm afraid in this instance, to have one you can not have the other. Now because leveling or as you say basic activities didn't need a group, and crafting certainly doesn't count, what does that leave you? That...seems strangely familiar...almost like this game called the old republic, I wonder what that could be? It seems like you might need a group for higher end content like raids, or pvp zones...hmmm...strange....so because you need a group for end game content its not single player? So wait...now you're retracting your statement and saying end game matters and makes a game multiplayer? Well I'm glad you see it my way, I hope to see you in Tor. I would just like to say thank you for proving me right, I truly do appreciate it.
1. Clearly you didn't play SWG before the NGE, because there's just no debate that it was an MMO in its most genuine sense. Other people were vital to your own success. This isn't arguable.
2. WoW is mostly single player until you reach max level, then grouping is more or less necessary to continue with the game's content.
3. You're reading what you want to read and then ignoring everything else.
All you're proving is that you're a vapid fanboy whose logic is going to make me a lot of money in the initial days of TOR's release.
You know what my logic is? You and tons of people like you are going to buy this game and make me a mint. Enjoy your purchase, because I certainly will!
Comments
Does it ever end? Really? Are we still doing this?
Alright as usual I'll bite, how is this a single player game? What qualities does this game have that make it into a single player game? And single player as opposed to what, give me something to compare this game which is 'single player' to a massive multiplayer game.
Then after you do that, please tell me once again how is the fact that Bioware has said there will be cities, and non instanced pvp zones like Ord Martell fits in with your idea of this non massive game. Or That there will be raids.
You know what I'll save you the trouble.
The game is partially instanced? Oh boy that's totally new and outrageous right? My god how dare they make sure I enjoy some dramatic tension without people going lolololol i ned gold plx. The game is not fully instanced, just certain events, and people can group for those quests. I guess grouping isn't multiplayer because that is not a real person on the other end you're grouping with its a secret android to make you think its a real person yeah that must be it.
The game has story? So wait....how is giving the universe you play in meaning, where npc's don't just stand there and say the same text over and over? How is making me love my environment, because I can really get into the depth of the world by giving me choices/consequences as opposed to just do this without a reason why. Yeah you know that is fun, doing crazy quests because someone told me to, story gives me a real reason.
I feel like you people don't read interviews or reviews and just take short quotes and use them out of context to support your views which have no real backing. Like I said go on, provide me some proof give me a full link to a real article saying that there will be no grouping, no raiding, no interacting in a city, or no pvp in a non instanced zone. Go on give me some article from a reliable source, come on if you guys all think your opinions are infallible that you have to yell them enough to warn us of the horrid of its single player gameness, then go on show me an article. I mean if you believe in your claims that much, you should have some sort of backing to it no?
Who cares if it's single-player? BioWare makes single-player games that are worth the commitment, I'd pay 15 dollars a month for a single-player game with added content monthly, especially if it was by BioWare.
K 1st off this isn't just for u. It's for all the ppl who just want to Troll. Go buy a Mag or what u don't got the 7 dollor's while then let me fill u in on a few thing's. Dana is talking about being the new class in the Noob area. NOT ONLY WILL u have diff buddie's depending on how u treat your buddie will determ if another person would want to join u in your quest and yes u caan even get a a understudy (Pad) Some one if u are a Sith might one day try to take you out to become the Master if he fill's u are getting to (Light Side choices) weak.. But of corse wait there is crafting and AH's and PvP wait no that can't be because u guy's are saing it's a Single player game. Hmm strange hmm wonder how a single player game will have PvP and fighting for a plantet control. Guess it must be somethig new called what ever u guy's want to TROLL and run your mouth before u even get all the Fact's. Go out buy the new Game Mag's or wait for a Reveiw of a indepth Hands -on preveiw not a hands-on the new class in a Demo pre-made toon. The Story Side is a new part to MMO's that is going to have all you Power lv ppl upset of corse because u don't care about the story just getting to 50 1st so u can say hey look at me I can gank u lol and be the biggest Di** around. AND THEY PUT OUT A 2010 Releise no more TBA hehe of corse this could mean 12/25/10 Lmao and be pushed back to 2011 But here's Hoping for a Summer 2010 Release
The short answer to what you're asking is that people like me, who have been playing MMOs for more than a decade, are able to recognize this stuff when they see it after being scammed several times by SOE, Mythic, and Funcom.
This is a single player game. It might have multiplayer elements, but so do most single player games out there, and you don't have to pay a monthly fee to play online. Instances don't have anything to do with it. The fact of the matter is, story or not, instances or not, you're going to be playing most of this game solo. If I wanted a story, I would play a single player game, or I would read a book. MMOs are supposed to be about other people, real people, not dialogue option 3 combined with dialogue option 2 and dialogue option 1 from previous NPC conversations.
Oh, you're a Jedi? Me too! Did you pick dialogue option series 3,2,5,2,1,3 or series 2,4,2,2,1? Really?! Me too!
It's just so sad. And that's not even getting into its executive producer who was fired from SOE for his handling of the outcry against the NGE in SWG. But we don't need to go into that; it speaks for itself.
I don't feel like I have to warn anyone. Buy the game. Pay Bioware $15 a month for a generic "MMO" with a star wars skin. I promise I don't care. I'm just enjoying this massive hype that's going to come crashing down when the game launches.
Well, I wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but single player games with multiplayer elements should be a one time purchase with optional DLC at best.
But you go right ahead and buy it. Like I said, I fully support their ability to get people to give them money.
There's so much /fail here I don't even know where to start.
Please, buy the game. Make someone else rich. I'm going to reevaluate my stock options and start investing in Bioware. They've clearly figured out how to dupe the common clay.
I love this stuff. It's like eating lobster in a fancy sea food restaurant knowing that people who make a tiny fraction of your net worth every year are keeping their ilk in line and working for their next bread crumb.
I highly support other people buying this game. It's just that I believe in honesty so that when I go to sleep at night, I can say that I told people, but they made a decision that lead them to their current fate.
Enjoy your game, I know I will!
*Maybe* 1% of the MMO community gives a rat's arse about the "story" in these games. They will blow past the story driven aspects of this game as quickly as they can so they can move along with the level grind. You really have to ask yourself how arrogant Bioware is to think the larger portion of their player base will even care about all the money and effort they put into the voiceovers and cut scenes and whatever other 'interactive' story features they put in. The people who bought and played the KOTOR RPGs are not today's greater MMO population. From this point of view Bioware would have been better off just putting more playable areas and standard quests in the game than wasting time on all this "story" garbage.
What about replayability in a game with so much story? Sure, maybe a decent number of people will slow down to enjoy the story for the first 20 levels or so, but what about when they reroll? I hope Bioware has a skip key for all that stuff or it will be the first big demand you will hear on the forums. At the end of the day, the WoW generation that will buy this game wants to hit level cap and get the best loot. That's it. They are also more likely to watch "Big Brother" on TV instead of the Discovery Channel.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Who cares if it's single-player? BioWare makes single-player games that are worth the commitment, I'd pay 15 dollars a month for a single-player game with added content monthly, especially if it was by BioWare.
Well, I wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but single player games with multiplayer elements should be a one time purchase with optional DLC at best.
But you go right ahead and buy it. Like I said, I fully support their ability to get people to give them money.
True it would have to be a FTP "MMO" if in fact it was that way.
I Agree with u Aakara (srry for the mis spellin) Aion is better Solo because the take 60% of your xp away for grouping and any MMO can be Single player WoW included of corse I play all MMO's with my Brother and other family and friend's and ToR will be no diff and they wouldn't have Guild's and Guild sign up's on there Home page for ToR for a Single player game just ppl wanting to get ppl fired up about nothing.(Troll) to many of them these's day's The new MMOers WoW barren Chat u just can't get away from it no matter what MMO u go to.
Maybe you will be playing this game solo, but most of my rl friends will be playing with me, so I don't share your views. And whose to say that this game will be nothing but solo content? Whose to say there won't be group quests/instances/raids in some form? I believe they did say in an interview there would be raids, so I'm not sure how its all solo, or even mostly solo.
If you don't want to group or enjoy the community in the cities that is your choice, but saying that just because you can tackle x quest without a group makes it not multiplayer isn't faulty logic for the accepted definition of what an MMORPG means. An MMORPG isn't a game where you have to group, I'm not sure where that idea came about, because that idea has been long gone. Instead its a game where tons of people share the same universe in a world together, and whether they choose to group is there choice.
I know that i'll be grouping a lot with my friends and anyone else in the community that wants to. I enjoy the idea of people having an active vote/say in the conversation with an npc. This seems amazing to me for both immersion and fun, where all the people in my group have a say in the conversation at hand. So given that your group has a say in a conversation for your quest as well, how does that exactly make it single player? I see people having input with other peoples quests, to me that looks like it multiplayer.
If you would rather use a less offensive term for the game, say that you don't like that you can solo, don't go spouting asinine statements saying its single player. Its not single player, and if your classification is any game where there is content you want to do that you don't have to group for...lets see let me list a lot of single player games.
All sandbox games, I don't have to group for the content I want to do, because its what I want to do, I don't need to group. Mortal online, Darkfall, hell lets say pre NGE SWG for you vets out there. Alright lets also say themeparks EQII, Wow, Aion, Guild Wars, FFXI[Now that they nerfed it] AoC, War. Has it sunk in yet that your classification of 'single player' is faulty logic?
According to your logic all those games for the very reason of content I want to do are also single player, do you agree? If yes then alright what game are you playing? If no, then you admit your logic is faulty.
1.) While people like me recognize those listed companies just make bad games, maybe not in the past. They're out of there league anymore, they can't catch up.
2.) If you choose so, who gives a damn really? Are you CHOOSING to take the solo experience? If so, shut the hell up, the idea of a MMO is to play with people, meet new people and to progress your character. If you can't meet people or bring people it's your problem, go play a SPRPG.
3.) So ToR should be like every other MMO out there? You jackasses need to group up in a room and discuss a decent argument where you can present proof and not your half thought out opinions. This is not the game for you. If you don't want a MMO that gives you choices find another MMO out there.
4.) The ironic part is the vets wanted SWG to be changed. Was you not on the boards to see the "It's not star warsy enough" arguments? You're absolutely oblivious aren't you? It needed a change, it was hemorrhaging subs every day. You vet's are just impossible to please, which is why you have a forum to sit in all day to talk about what you THINK you want, when in reality you haven't a clue.
5.) What are you talking about? What you see is people interested in playing the game currently. While people like you take offense to people finding something they may enjoy. Bro, if you don't like the game, again, find another game. I'll bet BioWare could care less about you, they're not targeting SWG vets, who the hell would?
Oh, see you in-game.
Im not going to play by any of the eight story lines. Im going to leave the main hub/city and go explore all the worlds and planets and just grind mobs for exp and loot. Then a week later I start the raid content...and if I cant do that then its not an MMORPG. Its a Multiplayer Online Adventure Game (MOAG)... or something. LOTRO used the same technique of weaving of single player stories through an open world, but you dont have to follow the story. You can totally ignore it...if you so choose.
FINBAR
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If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck, I'm going to call it as a duck. It's a single player game with multiplayer capability. You could argue that a lot of MMOs are like this, and I wouldn't disagree necessarily. But this one looks like KOTOR 3 with a monthly fee.
I would dispute pre NGE SWG as being single player. Even outside of groups, you had to rely on other people to heal, buff, and perform other services. I had two accounts at one point so I could fight and craft at the same time. Without other people to interact with, I never would have been able to join a city or run any number of instances in the game.
Some of the others are debatable, but for the most part, you're right, they are single player games in the sense that you don't need a group to level. However, TOR gets a special mention because it doesn't make any bones about it. There's no long term goal of cooperation with other players, it's a story driven RPG with a monthly fee.
Go for it. It's not my thing, but it's going to snare a lot of people initially.
Well, I wouldn't. Call me old fashioned, but single player games with multiplayer elements should be a one time purchase with optional DLC at best.
But you go right ahead and buy it. Like I said, I fully support their ability to get people to give them money.
I hate optional DLC, it's stupid. Companies are not going to give it to you at a good price or make enough of them. If they out with new content every month at 15 dollars a month, that's a pretty good deal.
I love Mass Effect, and I would go as far to say it's my favorite RPG I've ever played. How many DLC updates have they made? Two. Pinnacle Station and Bring Down The Sky. That's it, and that's also why I hate DLC. If The Old Republic was going to be single-player, I would have no problem, however it is not.
The Old Republic will not be a single-player experience.. BioWare is just attempting to incorporate the RPG into MMORPG.
I'm not sure if they have that option. Before companions were a must, now they say companions are a option, they will still be on the sidelines if you should need them though. So if not, it could change. Even if they didn't that does not change this from MMO to a SP experience. I understand how just strait grinding mobs may be fun for some, but I really don't think that's BioWare goal. It seems they're trying to give the people that feel the grind is boring and repetitive a game that is the exact opposite, where the quests are involving and well thought.
Basically, mob grinding from start to finish does not make a MMO, to many it's seen as non-western. Try Aion.
I'm glad that you agree with me that all games even pre nge SWG is single player. Now because you agree alright under your logic this game and all future mmos are single player. Lets change the name of the site now, we should let the mods know that this site is useless because most mmorpg's listed are single player.
Yes pre nge swg is single player, you didn't have to group, you didn't need others to craft. Sure it saved you time/frustrations, but it wasn't like you had to, you could of done it all by yourself the entire time and struggled. Its not like you had to since there was no end game goal, just whatever you wanted the end game goal to be. So yes even SWG pre nge is single player so I'm glad that you had such a great experience in a single player game like SWG. Well since you had such a great experience in a single player game like SWG, I'm sure you'll have a fun experience in an also single player game like Tor, I look forwarding to seeing you in game Daed.
1. Hubris, plain and simple. Oh I was like you once, thinking that MY company could do no wrong. Ah youthful MMO experience...
2. People choose to do the easier thing, but this game basically IS a SPRPG.
3. We have. People don't like the truth because it forces them to examine their own preferences. You do have choices in this game, and they are dialogue options 1-5. If that's the kind of "choice" you want, great. Go for it.
4. I wasn't on the boards, actually, I was too busy playing the game. Before the NGE, the game was doing just fine with about 300k subs. Us vets weren't impossible to please, we just plain weren't listened to. WoW made people greedy, and that's what the NGE was about.
The truth of the matter is, we had it right, and the failure of SWG after the NGE proved us right, while SOE's public execution become TOR's executive producer. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the issue there.
5. I don't take offense to people finding something they might enjoy. In fact, I'm betting on it with stock in Bioware. I just feel the ethical need to point out that this is a scam. Disagree with me. I'm counting on it. I want you to buy this game. I just believe in being honest, and this is a scam.
It's just funny to me. You can be blatantly honest with people. You can warn them up and down, and STILL they make the stupid decision and make people like me rich.
Not that I'm complaining. I rely on the drones of the world to produce for my benefit and the benefit of others.
Please, enjoy the game, I hope a lot of people do, because I'll be watching the stock closely. If this becomes another WoW, I'll give a toast to it when my stock soars as a result.
No, that's not what I said. Pre-NGE SWG was very much an MMO. You needed other people to craft, group, and do a host of other activities. To do anything beyond the most basic activities required a group or at least the use of other people. There were so many people I counted on every day to provide me with basic services.
I'm not sure why I even bother to post. My words go unheaded and misinterpreted.
Can I be honest, the I idea that I could create a character and actually 'live' in the SW universe is what excited me about SWG back in the day. This also lead me to go buy a new computer and Star Wars Galaxies together and launched my time in MMO's. I can remember getting goose bumps (yeah, I'm that kind of nerd) when I heard the SW theme the first time I booted up SWG. For all the game's faults, they did let me live and carve my niche in the SW universe. Then came the "iconic" rhetoric out of SOE and the game went south for me from there. I understand that the structure, cannon, etc. all comes from the same source but man the idea of being able to actually live in that universe is what I always wanted when I was a kid watching the movies.
Sadly, I hear the same "iconic" rhetoric from Bioware and I start getting bummed. Lets say they provide me with the framework to be an actual smuggler. They set down the skills, create the items to be smuggled and the smuggling dynamics etc. and then let me go to work. From there my story and my "renown" as a character is up to me. Same with Jedi etc. I don't want to be told my story, I want to write it myself. *sigh* As I've said in other posts, it's SW and I'm going to play it but I'm not really as excited as I'd hoped I'd be.
Excellently stated.
I agree with Airwen too. The idea of me being able to create my own persona in the SW universe and tell their story, and having the latitude to decide what that story is as opposed to being handed a handfull of "iconic" classes (My story was of a neutral doctor selling his wares and working in a series of medical Centers on several planets, creating his own medical pharmaceuticals empire) was the appealing part to me.
I don't want to be Harrision Ford's character or Mark Hamil's. Those roles have already been done. I want to make up my own, and choose what that person did (which as described above did not fall into any of the "iconic" classes). That's why I loved SWG pre-nge. Koster gave me the ability to really tell my SW story.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Because players can't be trusted to make their own stories.
This is just so sad...
But I'm over it. Please. Buy the game. Make me and Bioware money.
Nope that's your logic in the works. You say you needed a group, I say you didn't its entirely player choice, they didn't have to rely on others. And saying you needed to rely on others for crafting materials isn't a very good argument. I need an auction house for rare drops that I don't feel like farming in any game, I never have to communicate with real people.
You agreed with me earlier that wow is a single player, and it has a very real auction house system along with a very real crafting system that needs groups/goods to get the tokens/items from raids. Since you defined wow as a single player in your earlier statement because you don't need to group to level, that makes your argument on crafting null and void by the same logic. You can't have your cake and eat it too I'm afraid in this instance, to have one you can not have the other.
Now because leveling or as you say basic activities didn't need a group, and crafting certainly doesn't count, what does that leave you? That...seems strangely familiar...almost like this game called the old republic, I wonder what that could be? It seems like you might need a group for higher end content like raids, or pvp zones...hmmm...strange....so because you need a group for end game content its not single player? So wait...now you're retracting your statement and saying end game matters and makes a game multiplayer? Well I'm glad you see it my way, I hope to see you in Tor.
I would just like to say thank you for proving me right, I truly do appreciate it.
[Edited some spelling mistakes.]
Because players can't be trusted to make their own stories.
This is just so sad...
But I'm over it. Please. Buy the game. Make me and Bioware money.
Who said you can't? Linear and non-linear can persist within an MMO game. I don't really care too much, if I end up not enjoying SW:TOR then I will be leaving this genre behind.
Because players can't be trusted to make their own stories.
This is just so sad...
But I'm over it. Please. Buy the game. Make me and Bioware money.
No, they can't. You're story is god awful, which is why you're on the forums complaining and not actually creating a story of your own. By all means continue to fail.
1. Clearly you didn't play SWG before the NGE, because there's just no debate that it was an MMO in its most genuine sense. Other people were vital to your own success. This isn't arguable.
2. WoW is mostly single player until you reach max level, then grouping is more or less necessary to continue with the game's content.
3. You're reading what you want to read and then ignoring everything else.
All you're proving is that you're a vapid fanboy whose logic is going to make me a lot of money in the initial days of TOR's release.
You know what my logic is? You and tons of people like you are going to buy this game and make me a mint. Enjoy your purchase, because I certainly will!