When i see Craig from Cryptic develivering a talk on his game, on what experience awaits us, i see my excitement reflected in him and the others that made the game. Now, thats a good sign. If they enjoy playing and hell, 'working' on making a game, then it cant be that bad at all in my opinion. So in summary, its good that Cryptic have taken the reigns. They will look after their product, as this will be their golden child. So you can bet that down the line more and more content will be added making this the on going experience alot of us have been hoping to see. However as someone said, the pictures perpetual had in development, were just that. There was no game engine, they had nothing. Yes their idea would've attracted alot of fans, but how do you decide who gets to do what? No one has actually approved that idea knowing full well they would be the crewman standing outside an ambassadors quarters waiting to be summoned to escort them. I mean seriously, who the hell wants to do something like that? I'd rather not play the game. If you want to be an average joe, then dont play games. Cryptic have decided to make you the hero, and if you want less then your going to have to look elsewhere.
If you think only the captain can be the hero, you don't know Trek any better than Cryptic does.
As for enthusiasm - well, Mythic was oozing enthusiasm about Warhammer Online.
I won't give your strawman about standing around waiting to be called into action any reply, as it doesn't deserve one.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The sig is a quote i said a few days ago to a couple of work mates, its not even my views lol. Sorry if it offends you.
Yeah i accept the comment about Mythic being true. Mind you some people like that game.
As for the crewman waiting to be called into action, i dont understand why it doesnt deserve a response. It's a concern that actually pushed cryptic into deciding 'Lets make everyone captains'.
However i'd like to know what you would've done with the IP? Or what they've done thats so wrong with it.
Gotten rather sharp responses, so i maybe offended you lot with something if so, i apologise.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
The sig is a quote i said a few days ago to a couple of work mates, its not even my views lol. Sorry if it offends you. Yeah i accept the comment about Mythic being true. Mind you some people like that game. As for the crewman waiting to be called into action, i dont understand why it doesnt deserve a response. It's a concern that actually pushed cryptic into deciding 'Lets make everyone captains'. No, the fact that everyone being captains would be much cheaper to develop than player crews is what made the decision. However i'd like to know what you would've done with the IP? Or what they've done thats so wrong with it. Gotten rather sharp responses, so i maybe offended you lot with something if so, i apologise.
Hmm, just to mention some choices that Crypitic has made:
NO - garage full of ships for captains to choose from
NO - Auction House (I'm guessing there will be instant mail as well)
NO fancy paint jobs for Star Fleet vessels
NO away teams consisting of five captains who traveled there on five separate ships.
NO Borg crew for those who picked the right pre-order offer.
NO, NO, NO cash shop.
How is that for starters?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Related to the captains comment, its an interesting point, yes it was easier, but perhaps the easy way is sometimes the best. I mean, world of warcraft isnt exactly technical, but it is successful, and i dont even like it. Im saying that as its a fact.
I agree with the paintjobs, borgcrew, microtransactions crap like that. The five man away team of captains isnt the worst thing about the list there, infact it could be the best as it does allow you to group with your friends, BUT i do see, and agree. The sad story is, i've never once said this game is perfect, but its a damn site better than other star trek games, for that reason alone, it'll attract fans, just because of its franchise.
I reckon like all MMO's, changes will be made. People demanded interiors and they managed to get bridges up intime for launch. Im sure everyone has sensed that they are being rushed. Im not sure if its them, or if its Atari or whatever, but i expect a bumpy beginning, but after a year of going live, it'll mould into a stable housename in the MMO industry.
You also sound irritated MMO_Doubter, but that might be the way i've read it.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Related to the captains comment, its an interesting point, yes it was easier, but perhaps the easy way is sometimes the best. I mean, world of warcraft isnt exactly technical, but it is successful, and i dont even like it. Im saying that as its a fact. WoW launched with 6 separate starting areas and enough content to level halfway at least once on each faction without repeating zones. Cryptic is doing this game fast and cheap. I see no reason to think that a long-term commitment to improvements and new content is in their business model. When you see cash grabs like the shop and the different perks for pre-orders from different sources, they show a different approach to profitability. Quality game experience isn't part of the business anymore. I agree with the paintjobs, borgcrew, microtransactions crap like that. The five man away team of captains isnt the worst thing about the list there, infact it could be the best as it does allow you to group with your friends, BUT i do see, and agree. The sad story is, i've never once said this game is perfect, but its a damn site better than other star trek games, for that reason alone, it'll attract fans, just because of its franchise. I reckon like all MMO's, changes will be made. People demanded interiors and they managed to get bridges up intime for launch. Im sure everyone has sensed that they are being rushed. Im not sure if its them, or if its Atari or whatever, but i expect a bumpy beginning, but after a year of going live, it'll mould into a stable housename in the MMO industry.
You also sound irritated MMO_Doubter, but that might be the way i've read it.
I always am. Ask anyone here. Don't take it personally.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Related to the captains comment, its an interesting point, yes it was easier, but perhaps the easy way is sometimes the best. I mean, world of warcraft isnt exactly technical, but it is successful, and i dont even like it. Im saying that as its a fact. WoW launched with 6 separate starting areas and enough content to level halfway at least once on each faction without repeating zones. Cryptic is doing this game fast and cheap. I see no reason to think that a long-term commitment to improvements and new content is in their business model. When you see cash grabs like the shop and the different perks for pre-orders from different sources, they show a different approach to profitability. Quality game experience isn't part of the business anymore. I agree with the paintjobs, borgcrew, microtransactions crap like that. The five man away team of captains isnt the worst thing about the list there, infact it could be the best as it does allow you to group with your friends, BUT i do see, and agree. The sad story is, i've never once said this game is perfect, but its a damn site better than other star trek games, for that reason alone, it'll attract fans, just because of its franchise. I reckon like all MMO's, changes will be made. People demanded interiors and they managed to get bridges up intime for launch. Im sure everyone has sensed that they are being rushed. Im not sure if its them, or if its Atari or whatever, but i expect a bumpy beginning, but after a year of going live, it'll mould into a stable housename in the MMO industry.
You also sound irritated MMO_Doubter, but that might be the way i've read it.
I always am. Ask anyone here. Don't take it personally.
Probably comes from the disapointments in the industry i guess.
See, i expect something like that to happen, but im just hoping for the best. Can't say anything for sure about the content until i've played it so i wont even try.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Related to the captains comment, its an interesting point, yes it was easier, but perhaps the easy way is sometimes the best. I mean, world of warcraft isnt exactly technical, but it is successful, and i dont even like it. Im saying that as its a fact. WoW launched with 6 separate starting areas and enough content to level halfway at least once on each faction without repeating zones. Cryptic is doing this game fast and cheap. I see no reason to think that a long-term commitment to improvements and new content is in their business model. When you see cash grabs like the shop and the different perks for pre-orders from different sources, they show a different approach to profitability. Quality game experience isn't part of the business anymore. I agree with the paintjobs, borgcrew, microtransactions crap like that. The five man away team of captains isnt the worst thing about the list there, infact it could be the best as it does allow you to group with your friends, BUT i do see, and agree. The sad story is, i've never once said this game is perfect, but its a damn site better than other star trek games, for that reason alone, it'll attract fans, just because of its franchise. I reckon like all MMO's, changes will be made. People demanded interiors and they managed to get bridges up intime for launch. Im sure everyone has sensed that they are being rushed. Im not sure if its them, or if its Atari or whatever, but i expect a bumpy beginning, but after a year of going live, it'll mould into a stable housename in the MMO industry.
You also sound irritated MMO_Doubter, but that might be the way i've read it.
I always am. Ask anyone here. Don't take it personally.
Probably comes from the disapointments in the industry i guess.
See, i expect something like that to happen, but im just hoping for the best. Can't say anything for sure about the content until i've played it so i wont even try.
There's a middle ground. I believe it was only a month ago I was excited about STO, but revelations by Cryptic since then have turned me off the game. I'm excited about FFXIV and SW:TOR now (and a tiny bit DC Online), but future information released about those games could heavily turn me off. I can say one thing with certainty though, I am not going to buy an MMO I don't feel very confidant about. That might well require that I play an open beta or a trial for a week. It might mean I don't play until 6 months after the game comes out. It certainly means I'm not playing STO at launch (and unless I am horribly mistaken about it on multiple levels, which I naturally seriously doubt, probably never).
I think we'd probably all get better games if we were more cautious about our purchases. If there are plenty of people that buy MMOs without bothering to find out if they are good or not, then MMO makers will learn they can make a quick buck with a cheap game that only maintains a very small playerbase. Large initials sales for profit, low longterm subscriptions for a small upkeep cost and higher profit per payer. That's how it looks like some companies are going anyhow.
I think we'd probably all get better games if we were more cautious about our purchases. If there are plenty of people that buy MMOs without bothering to find out if they are good or not, then MMO makers will learn they can make a quick buck with a cheap game that only maintains a very small playerbase. Large initials sales for profit, low longterm subscriptions for a small upkeep cost and higher profit per payer. That's how it looks like some companies are going anyhow.
Exactly right.
From the games being released these days, it's clear that this is the current business model.
Players ask why the dev companies keep making the mistake of releasing sloppy and unfinished MMOs. Well, it's because it's not a mistake from a profit viewpoint.
So, you suckers out there - keep buying CE's, pre-orders, and extended subs. You're working for them.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The sig is a quote i said a few days ago to a couple of work mates, its not even my views lol. Sorry if it offends you. Yeah i accept the comment about Mythic being true. Mind you some people like that game. As for the crewman waiting to be called into action, i dont understand why it doesnt deserve a response. It's a concern that actually pushed cryptic into deciding 'Lets make everyone captains'. There's is no reason a player would have to "wait to be called" in a properly planned and developed game. MMO-Doubter has oftered many examples on other threads why this need not and should not happen. Do players wait around their guilds in other games waiting to be called? However i'd like to know what you would've done with the IP? Or what they've done thats so wrong with it.
The most direct approach- maybe not the best - is to combine the player-crew concept with Cryptic's NPC crew concept, making it so you can have NPC crews as presently proposed, but it would be more advantageous to fill those slots with players. A game that was planned around the full Trek concept - and not just phasers and photon torpeodos - would have such a system or better. Would it work? I think so, but maybe not. This is why I have also question whether Star Trek is an IP that works in an MMO. If players want "action," there are much better properties to use. Trek is so much more than phasers and torpeados, but you would never know that by looking at the preBeta footage offered, which is clearly geared to the fans of the latest film. If you boil away too many "unplayable" elements from the mythos, then what do you have left? Gotten rather sharp responses, so i maybe offended you lot with something if so, i apologise.
Perpetual didn't even have a game engine, nothing working just a lot of expensive concept art. And the idiot in charge basically lost any credibility when he said. "We are making a MMO not a star trek game" Yeah alienate your target audience...way to have another NGE on your hands.
I thank GOD Cryptic has it, the last fucking thing I want is another Basement dweller spreadsheet
What you mean no game engine?There not going to get the rights to publish Star Trek without even having an engine.
They would not quit GnH for concept art lol,i am sure this game was quite far along,witch is why Cryptic took it over.As to the other poster who says it will be all instanced ,that would make sense,being they took over a near finished game,it is much easier to pull a WOW and just keep adding instances.
However i have no idea how instances would work at all in a Star Trek game.Instances as in WOW make no sense,it takes a MMO universe and turns it into a small group of players,kind of defeats the purpose of calling yourself an MMO.When you have a Space type game,it is usually a lot of dead space as it is,so you need to keep what players you have all interacting with each other.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Perpetual didn't even have a game engine, nothing working just a lot of expensive concept art. And the idiot in charge basically lost any credibility when he said. "We are making a MMO not a star trek game" Yeah alienate your target audience...way to have another NGE on your hands.
I thank GOD Cryptic has it, the last fucking thing I want is another Basement dweller spreadsheet
They had an awful name and probably an incompetent management.
Good riddance I say.
Not that the new guys will do it much better from what I have seen.
Looks to me that they are making a watered down game that centers on spaceship battles and that is not my type of Star Trek game.
I prefer that the focus were on exploring planets like in the original Star Trek series.
Star Trek: The Next Generation were more about spaceship battles but I prefer the original series above all.
Perpetual didn't even have a game engine, nothing working just a lot of expensive concept art. And the idiot in charge basically lost any credibility when he said. "We are making a MMO not a star trek game" Yeah alienate your target audience...way to have another NGE on your hands.
I thank GOD Cryptic has it, the last fucking thing I want is another Basement dweller spreadsheet
What you mean no game engine?There not going to get the rights to publish Star Trek without even having an engine.
They would not quit GnH for concept art lol,i am sure this game was quite far along,witch is why Cryptic took it over.As to the other poster who says it will be all instanced ,that would make sense,being they took over a near finished game,it is much easier to pull a WOW and just keep adding instances.
However i have no idea how instances would work at all in a Star Trek game.Instances as in WOW make no sense,it takes a MMO universe and turns it into a small group of players,kind of defeats the purpose of calling yourself an MMO.When you have a Space type game,it is usually a lot of dead space as it is,so you need to keep what players you have all interacting with each other.
It is Cryptic. They are incapableof creating an MMORPG without instances. More likely they are not good at network programming or too cheap to buy/create proper hardware infrastructure. Just look at Champions Online, 100 max people in any given zone. Anything more than that and an instanced is created.
Most likely they will do the same with STO. Having multiple instances of Earth and fleet battles over the same objective. I tell you, Cryptic are incapable of creating a real MMORPG. Everything they have done has been instanced to oblivion.
Would it work? I think so, but maybe not. This is why I have also question whether Star Trek is an IP that works in an MMO. I have real doubts too. I think a SWG (the original style) approach would work fairly well. Trek has a huge amount of content available to put into a full-featured MMORPG. Far more than Star Wars. I think Star Wars is even less fitting for an MMO, but we will see. For many reasons, I am not optimistic about SWTOR.
If players want "action," there are much better properties to use. Trek is so much more than phasers and torpeados, but you would never know that by looking at the preBeta footage offered, which is clearly geared to the fans of the latest film. If you boil away too many "unplayable" elements from the mythos, then what do you have left?
What Cryptic is going to release in February. Which will piss off a lot of Trek fans who didn't know what they were buying. The STO fora are going to get very ugly.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Would it work? I think so, but maybe not. This is why I have also question whether Star Trek is an IP that works in an MMO. I have real doubts too. I think a SWG (the original style) approach would work fairly well. Trek has a huge amount of content available to put into a full-featured MMORPG. Far more than Star Wars. I think Star Wars is even less fitting for an MMO, but we will see. For many reasons, I am not optimistic about SWTOR.
If players want "action," there are much better properties to use. Trek is so much more than phasers and torpeados, but you would never know that by looking at the preBeta footage offered, which is clearly geared to the fans of the latest film. If you boil away too many "unplayable" elements from the mythos, then what do you have left?
What Cryptic is going to release in February. Which will piss off a lot of Trek fans who didn't know what they were buying. The STO fora are going to get very ugly.
Yep, I estimate the retention rate, after 3-4 months, would be less than 10%.
Perpetual didn't even have a game engine, nothing working just a lot of expensive concept art. And the idiot in charge basically lost any credibility when he said. "We are making a MMO not a star trek game" Yeah alienate your target audience...way to have another NGE on your hands.
I thank GOD Cryptic has it, the last fucking thing I want is another Basement dweller spreadsheet
I'm not commenting on the argument one way or the other, but he didn't say what you said that he did. He actually said that they were making a game not just for trekkers, but for MMO players as well. I should know. he said it to me.
The sig is a quote i said a few days ago to a couple of work mates, its not even my views lol. Sorry if it offends you. Yeah i accept the comment about Mythic being true. Mind you some people like that game. As for the crewman waiting to be called into action, i dont understand why it doesnt deserve a response. It's a concern that actually pushed cryptic into deciding 'Lets make everyone captains'. There's is no reason a player would have to "wait to be called" in a properly planned and developed game. MMO-Doubter has oftered many examples on other threads why this need not and should not happen. Do players wait around their guilds in other games waiting to be called? However i'd like to know what you would've done with the IP? Or what they've done thats so wrong with it.
The most direct approach- maybe not the best - is to combine the player-crew concept with Cryptic's NPC crew concept, making it so you can have NPC crews as presently proposed, but it would be more advantageous to fill those slots with players. A game that was planned around the full Trek concept - and not just phasers and photon torpeodos - would have such a system or better. Would it work? I think so, but maybe not. This is why I have also question whether Star Trek is an IP that works in an MMO. If players want "action," there are much better properties to use. Trek is so much more than phasers and torpeados, but you would never know that by looking at the preBeta footage offered, which is clearly geared to the fans of the latest film. If you boil away too many "unplayable" elements from the mythos, then what do you have left? Gotten rather sharp responses, so i maybe offended you lot with something if so, i apologise.
You could say that, i am new here though so peoples long standing thoughts on certain topics are new to me but im picking up as quickly as i can. I know it irritates a few people to have to 'teach' the new guys. (No way near new to MMO's.)
Im going to merge my response to both parts into one because i feel i can answer them better that way. I totally agree about the NPC/PC crew idea. Fill the spaces with AI until filled by a player character. It's a great idea. I would've likely made the same thing Cryptic have done, but given the option to form a totally 'player only' crew. Which by the way, if you bug them about constantly, you never know. They could offer it as new content further down the line....buut....theres then the problem of ships with NPC only having the advantage of only one internet connection to worry about, one mind to make decisions. It kind of brings up the whole human/borg arguement. Which is better, one mind making decisions or, i'll just say 'chaos' to borrow a phrase.
I think they didnt want to complicate it, people will argue that they were just going for simple work, easy money, but at the end of the day its a business. They wanted to hit a larger audience (for more money. Okay for the purpose of this response, assume all things are to earn money, because, well, they are.) There doing what J.J did, they want to hit as many fans as possible with it, make it easy and accessible. (For money). It's not the godsend trek experience we've all dreamed of but theres another problem, we all have different views on what would be the perfect trek game. Im sure i'll find mine in this though, (Exploration.) Though im trying not to get excited about that because it could sound better than it is. From what im aware of, i 'think' that its instanced (Yeah yawn i know) and you can catalogue discoveries, because it then saves the data from that planet and race, and you can visit it, or share the file or whatever it is with your friends, fleet or what not.
I have to admit the 'what it could have been' is always nice to think of, but then again isnt the grass always greener on the other side.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
You could say that, i am new here though so peoples long standing thoughts on certain topics are new to me but im picking up as quickly as i can. I know it irritates a few people to have to 'teach' the new guys. (No way near new to MMO's.) Im going to merge my response to both parts into one because i feel i can answer them better that way. I totally agree about the NPC/PC crew idea. Fill the spaces with AI until filled by a player character. It's a great idea. I would've likely made the same thing Cryptic have done, but given the option to form a totally 'player only' crew. Which by the way, if you bug them about constantly, you never know. They could offer it as new content further down the line....buut....theres then the problem of ships with NPC only having the advantage of only one internet connection to worry about, one mind to make decisions. It kind of brings up the whole human/borg arguement. Which is better, one mind making decisions or, i'll just say 'chaos' to borrow a phrase. I think they didnt want to complicate it, people will argue that they were just going for simple work, easy money, but at the end of the day its a business. They wanted to hit a larger audience (for more money. Okay for the purpose of this response, assume all things are to earn money, because, well, they are.) There doing what J.J did, they want to hit as many fans as possible with it, make it easy and accessible. (For money). It's not the godsend trek experience we've all dreamed of but theres another problem, we all have different views on what would be the perfect trek game. Im sure i'll find mine in this though, (Exploration.) Though im trying not to get excited about that because it could sound better than it is. From what im aware of, i 'think' that its instanced (Yeah yawn i know) and you can catalogue discoveries, because it then saves the data from that planet and race, and you can visit it, or share the file or whatever it is with your friends, fleet or what not. I have to admit the 'what it could have been' is always nice to think of, but then again isnt the grass always greener on the other side.
QFT. Everyone has their own ideas on what should be in a trek game and no one's is more important than another's. I'm still waiting for my Borg experience that was dashed in 2001 when Activision dropped "Borg Assimilator." My idea of a perfect Trek game would be to add a player run economy, more playable factions, and a more open PVP( which means that if you cross into enemy territory you are automatically flagged and can be shot.) But I think what Cryptic has done is fine and not the great big disaster that some around here are claiming.
You could say that, i am new here though so peoples long standing thoughts on certain topics are new to me but im picking up as quickly as i can. I know it irritates a few people to have to 'teach' the new guys. (No way near new to MMO's.) Im going to merge my response to both parts into one because i feel i can answer them better that way. I totally agree about the NPC/PC crew idea. Fill the spaces with AI until filled by a player character. It's a great idea. I would've likely made the same thing Cryptic have done, but given the option to form a totally 'player only' crew. Which by the way, if you bug them about constantly, you never know. They could offer it as new content further down the line....buut....theres then the problem of ships with NPC only having the advantage of only one internet connection to worry about, one mind to make decisions. It kind of brings up the whole human/borg arguement. Which is better, one mind making decisions or, i'll just say 'chaos' to borrow a phrase. I think they didnt want to complicate it, people will argue that they were just going for simple work, easy money, but at the end of the day its a business. They wanted to hit a larger audience (for more money. Okay for the purpose of this response, assume all things are to earn money, because, well, they are.) There doing what J.J did, they want to hit as many fans as possible with it, make it easy and accessible. (For money). It's not the godsend trek experience we've all dreamed of but theres another problem, we all have different views on what would be the perfect trek game. Im sure i'll find mine in this though, (Exploration.) Though im trying not to get excited about that because it could sound better than it is. From what im aware of, i 'think' that its instanced (Yeah yawn i know) and you can catalogue discoveries, because it then saves the data from that planet and race, and you can visit it, or share the file or whatever it is with your friends, fleet or what not. I have to admit the 'what it could have been' is always nice to think of, but then again isnt the grass always greener on the other side.
QFT. Everyone has their own ideas on what should be in a trek game and no one's is more important than another's. I'm still waiting for my Borg experience that was dashed in 2001 when Activision dropped "Borg Assimilator." My idea of a perfect Trek game would be to add a player run economy, more playable factions, and a more open PVP( which means that if you cross into enemy territory you are automatically flagged and can be shot.) But I think what Cryptic has done is fine and not the great big disaster that some around here are claiming.
Yeah for lack of a better word, it will be fun. A game can't fail before its even launched....except maybe the Perpetual version. If it makes more money than it cost to make, its a success, weather you like it or not. I personally, arent looking for the simulator that i originally wished for. (I had high expectations.) but now, as stated before and pointed out nicely, everyones ideal star trek experience is different from each others.
The good news is by the way is that most of the ideas you wanted, Open PvP, player run economy (Players control the economy anyway to be honest, in one way or another), and the factions are definately coming. I mean, we've seen pictures of Romulan ships on their own, close up. Which tells me there actually looking at ship models, and perhaps the next two species to be added. Which i think will be Romulan (For certain) and Jem' Hadar, (Depending on their place in the story.) Another option is Cardassians, but the point is, the great thing about MMO's is that its never finished. Ever. Which is what Craig at Cryptic has said already, meaning they constantly seek to add new content, which for us, is great news.
Here's a great idea. Allow fleets the option to customize a system (Much like player housing) Create the planet, race, structures etc with the same options they have when they 'generate' new worlds. Just one of the many ideas that can be implemented after launch. So even if they hit a bump at launch, because lets face it, what MMO has never suffered any set backs. I have a feeling they have enough fans (and i mean fans, people who like their games, and like their effort in a star trek MMO, not just people who buy the title.) to get them through and establish themselves as a solid MMO choice.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Yeah for lack of a better word, it will be fun. A game can't fail before its even launched....except maybe the Perpetual version. If it makes more money than it cost to make, its a success, weather you like it or not.
Something can be a financial success even if NO ONE likes it. Given the short development time and how Cryptic games are usually like, and all the hype, I fully expect STO to make a lot of money. I don't expect it to have a lot of depth to the game play, nor do I expect it to feel much like a Star Trek game should. There are plenty of Trekkies that don't care about those things and if the last movie was any guide there are plenty of non-trekkies like that too. I expect high initial box scales, and relatively low retention, but the initial box sales and playing for a few months will get them quite a good ROI, I think, since this game was so quick to develop. In short, I'd be surprised if this wasn't a financial success and also surprised if the game was actually good.
You could say that, i am new here though so peoples long standing thoughts on certain topics are new to me but im picking up as quickly as i can. I know it irritates a few people to have to 'teach' the new guys. (No way near new to MMO's.) I didn't mean to come across as 'irritated' to 'teach." MMO_Doubter offered concrete examples elsewhere that I could not think of. The point was, no other game requires guildmembers to wait until called to be useful, as a game design. If you think of player crews the same as guilds, there is no validity to the "waiting to play" argument. Im going to merge my response to both parts into one because i feel i can answer them better that way. I totally agree about the NPC/PC crew idea. Fill the spaces with AI until filled by a player character. It's a great idea. I would've likely made the same thing Cryptic have done, but given the option to form a totally 'player only' crew. Which by the way, if you bug them about constantly, you never know. They could offer it as new content further down the line....buut....theres then the problem of ships with NPC only having the advantage of only one internet connection to worry about, one mind to make decisions. It kind of brings up the whole human/borg arguement. Which is better, one mind making decisions or, i'll just say 'chaos' to borrow a phrase. As cited many times, SWG has player-crewed ships. Many MMOs and online games have crewed vehicles. All of these are on smaller scale than STO would need, but the concept has been proven. The ship still functions with missing crewmen, it just does not have all the capability. No reason why a well-planned game cannot take the concept to a larger scale. I think they didnt want to complicate it, people will argue that they were just going for simple work, easy money, but at the end of the day its a business. They wanted to hit a larger audience (for more money. Okay for the purpose of this response, assume all things are to earn money, because, well, they are.) There doing what J.J did, they want to hit as many fans as possible with it, make it easy and accessible. (For money). It's not the godsend trek experience we've all dreamed of but theres another problem, we all have different views on what would be the perfect trek game. Im sure i'll find mine in this though, (Exploration.) Though im trying not to get excited about that because it could sound better than it is. From what im aware of, i 'think' that its instanced (Yeah yawn i know) and you can catalogue discoveries, because it then saves the data from that planet and race, and you can visit it, or share the file or whatever it is with your friends, fleet or what not. I'm not saying "easy money" but I will take your less complicated claim. Here's the rub - Star Trek IS complicated. It is arguably the most complicated scifi franchise out there. Why would you take on such a monster if you were not willing to tackle all aspects? This goes back to my statement - Some IPs do not make good MMOs. Is Star Trek too complicated to do right? Possibly. Does that mean we, as fans, should accept a watered-down version, because it is the only game in town. I, for one, do not. If this game were called Star Trek Wars Online, I'd probably have much less to say. Clearly Cryptic is taking its cues from the Abrams film. I don't blame them. But the Abrams film, while fun and exciting, could have just as easily wore another title and no one would have noticed a thing. It is not Star Trek. I have to admit the 'what it could have been' is always nice to think of, but then again isnt the grass always greener on the other side.
Yeah for lack of a better word, it will be fun. A game can't fail before its even launched....except maybe the Perpetual version. If it makes more money than it cost to make, its a success, weather you like it or not. I personally, arent looking for the simulator that i originally wished for. (I had high expectations.) but now, as stated before and pointed out nicely, everyones ideal star trek experience is different from each others. The good news is by the way is that most of the ideas you wanted, Open PvP, player run economy (Players control the economy anyway to be honest, in one way or another), and the factions are definately coming. I mean, we've seen pictures of Romulan ships on their own, close up. Which tells me there actually looking at ship models, and perhaps the next two species to be added. Which i think will be Romulan (For certain) and Jem' Hadar, (Depending on their place in the story.) Another option is Cardassians, but the point is, the great thing about MMO's is that its never finished. Ever. Which is what Craig at Cryptic has said already, meaning they constantly seek to add new content, which for us, is great news.
Here's a great idea. Allow fleets the option to customize a system (Much like player housing) Create the planet, race, structures etc with the same options they have when they 'generate' new worlds. Just one of the many ideas that can be implemented after launch. So even if they hit a bump at launch, because lets face it, what MMO has never suffered any set backs. I have a feeling they have enough fans (and i mean fans, people who like their games, and like their effort in a star trek MMO, not just people who buy the title.) to get them through and establish themselves as a solid MMO choice.
The only thing I've gotten so far on the PVP is the fighting over neutral zone territory and possibly the public quest system. Cryptic stated a few times that the Romulans was their first choice to be added in an expansion. I think what they're going to do is add factions as the story goes along. The lore for this game starts with the Federation condeming of the Klingons for invading Romulan space. Right now the Romulans have no homeworld( or a place to call home as far as I know) so it will take them awhile to become a military power again. Once that happens you'll see the announcment of the first expansion.
I'm not sure about creating planets but I do think it would be neat to customize any of the planets that you take over or allow to join your faction.
Everything I heard from them sounded like they were making a game for the hardcore and thats what I want. The graphics were more realistic and nicer to look at where as the new version looks like Champions Online in space. All they've done now is dumbed the game down, instanced it all up and it'll just go the way of Champions where everyone will be disappointed and the game fades into the background while we wait for SWTOR. Everything I've heard from people who go into beta with the Champions lifetime deal thing have said the game is bad and there wont be enough time to fix the issues.
I wish Perpetual was still handeling STO as well as I just don't have confidence in Cryptic. They did a very poor job with CO and I don't think they will fair much better with STO. I mean 2 years of development and so far only 40 hours of actual CB testing I am just not inspired with confidence. I feel like I am watching the construction of the Titanic and had one of those Final Destination moments where I see the ship sinking before it's even ready for launch. I fear the back lash on this title will be epic which means I will likely not see a decent Star Trek MMO in my life time as failed MMO's based off of IP's rarely get a second chance.
The sig is a quote i said a few days ago to a couple of work mates, its not even my views lol. Sorry if it offends you. Yeah i accept the comment about Mythic being true. Mind you some people like that game. As for the crewman waiting to be called into action, i dont understand why it doesnt deserve a response. It's a concern that actually pushed cryptic into deciding 'Lets make everyone captains'. However i'd like to know what you would've done with the IP? Or what they've done thats so wrong with it. Gotten rather sharp responses, so i maybe offended you lot with something if so, i apologise.
It doesn't offend me, it's just a fallacy to assume that to be able to criticize something you have to be able to create something better. Do film critics make films? Do book critics write books? Do game critics develop games? Some do, but it is by no means a requirement.
The sig is a quote i said a few days ago to a couple of work mates, its not even my views lol. Sorry if it offends you. Yeah i accept the comment about Mythic being true. Mind you some people like that game. As for the crewman waiting to be called into action, i dont understand why it doesnt deserve a response. It's a concern that actually pushed cryptic into deciding 'Lets make everyone captains'. However i'd like to know what you would've done with the IP? Or what they've done thats so wrong with it. Gotten rather sharp responses, so i maybe offended you lot with something if so, i apologise.
It doesn't offend me, it's just a fallacy to assume that to be able to criticize something you have to be able to create something better. Do film critics make films? Do book critics write books? Do game critics develop games? Some do, but it is by no means a requirement.
This is true but film critics watch the film before criticizing it, book critics read the book before criticizing it, game critics play the game before criticizing it... I think you know where I'm going with this.
Edit: Just to clarify... It's perfectly alright to have concerns about a game in development and to voice those concerns but to say a game is going to fail or is doomed before you even play it is taking it way to far.
Comments
Hey dude, you should be ashamed of your sig quote. You fail at logic.
If you think only the captain can be the hero, you don't know Trek any better than Cryptic does.
As for enthusiasm - well, Mythic was oozing enthusiasm about Warhammer Online.
I won't give your strawman about standing around waiting to be called into action any reply, as it doesn't deserve one.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
The sig is a quote i said a few days ago to a couple of work mates, its not even my views lol. Sorry if it offends you.
Yeah i accept the comment about Mythic being true. Mind you some people like that game.
As for the crewman waiting to be called into action, i dont understand why it doesnt deserve a response. It's a concern that actually pushed cryptic into deciding 'Lets make everyone captains'.
However i'd like to know what you would've done with the IP? Or what they've done thats so wrong with it.
Gotten rather sharp responses, so i maybe offended you lot with something if so, i apologise.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Hmm, just to mention some choices that Crypitic has made:
NO - garage full of ships for captains to choose from
NO - Auction House (I'm guessing there will be instant mail as well)
NO fancy paint jobs for Star Fleet vessels
NO away teams consisting of five captains who traveled there on five separate ships.
NO Borg crew for those who picked the right pre-order offer.
NO, NO, NO cash shop.
How is that for starters?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Related to the captains comment, its an interesting point, yes it was easier, but perhaps the easy way is sometimes the best. I mean, world of warcraft isnt exactly technical, but it is successful, and i dont even like it. Im saying that as its a fact.
I agree with the paintjobs, borgcrew, microtransactions crap like that. The five man away team of captains isnt the worst thing about the list there, infact it could be the best as it does allow you to group with your friends, BUT i do see, and agree. The sad story is, i've never once said this game is perfect, but its a damn site better than other star trek games, for that reason alone, it'll attract fans, just because of its franchise.
I reckon like all MMO's, changes will be made. People demanded interiors and they managed to get bridges up intime for launch. Im sure everyone has sensed that they are being rushed. Im not sure if its them, or if its Atari or whatever, but i expect a bumpy beginning, but after a year of going live, it'll mould into a stable housename in the MMO industry.
You also sound irritated MMO_Doubter, but that might be the way i've read it.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I always am. Ask anyone here. Don't take it personally.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I always am. Ask anyone here. Don't take it personally.
Probably comes from the disapointments in the industry i guess.
See, i expect something like that to happen, but im just hoping for the best. Can't say anything for sure about the content until i've played it so i wont even try.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I always am. Ask anyone here. Don't take it personally.
Probably comes from the disapointments in the industry i guess.
See, i expect something like that to happen, but im just hoping for the best. Can't say anything for sure about the content until i've played it so i wont even try.
There's a middle ground. I believe it was only a month ago I was excited about STO, but revelations by Cryptic since then have turned me off the game. I'm excited about FFXIV and SW:TOR now (and a tiny bit DC Online), but future information released about those games could heavily turn me off. I can say one thing with certainty though, I am not going to buy an MMO I don't feel very confidant about. That might well require that I play an open beta or a trial for a week. It might mean I don't play until 6 months after the game comes out. It certainly means I'm not playing STO at launch (and unless I am horribly mistaken about it on multiple levels, which I naturally seriously doubt, probably never).
I think we'd probably all get better games if we were more cautious about our purchases. If there are plenty of people that buy MMOs without bothering to find out if they are good or not, then MMO makers will learn they can make a quick buck with a cheap game that only maintains a very small playerbase. Large initials sales for profit, low longterm subscriptions for a small upkeep cost and higher profit per payer. That's how it looks like some companies are going anyhow.
Exactly right.
From the games being released these days, it's clear that this is the current business model.
Players ask why the dev companies keep making the mistake of releasing sloppy and unfinished MMOs. Well, it's because it's not a mistake from a profit viewpoint.
So, you suckers out there - keep buying CE's, pre-orders, and extended subs. You're working for them.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
What you mean no game engine?There not going to get the rights to publish Star Trek without even having an engine.
They would not quit GnH for concept art lol,i am sure this game was quite far along,witch is why Cryptic took it over.As to the other poster who says it will be all instanced ,that would make sense,being they took over a near finished game,it is much easier to pull a WOW and just keep adding instances.
However i have no idea how instances would work at all in a Star Trek game.Instances as in WOW make no sense,it takes a MMO universe and turns it into a small group of players,kind of defeats the purpose of calling yourself an MMO.When you have a Space type game,it is usually a lot of dead space as it is,so you need to keep what players you have all interacting with each other.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
They had an awful name and probably an incompetent management.
Good riddance I say.
Not that the new guys will do it much better from what I have seen.
Looks to me that they are making a watered down game that centers on spaceship battles and that is not my type of Star Trek game.
I prefer that the focus were on exploring planets like in the original Star Trek series.
Star Trek: The Next Generation were more about spaceship battles but I prefer the original series above all.
What you mean no game engine?There not going to get the rights to publish Star Trek without even having an engine.
They would not quit GnH for concept art lol,i am sure this game was quite far along,witch is why Cryptic took it over.As to the other poster who says it will be all instanced ,that would make sense,being they took over a near finished game,it is much easier to pull a WOW and just keep adding instances.
However i have no idea how instances would work at all in a Star Trek game.Instances as in WOW make no sense,it takes a MMO universe and turns it into a small group of players,kind of defeats the purpose of calling yourself an MMO.When you have a Space type game,it is usually a lot of dead space as it is,so you need to keep what players you have all interacting with each other.
It is Cryptic. They are incapableof creating an MMORPG without instances. More likely they are not good at network programming or too cheap to buy/create proper hardware infrastructure. Just look at Champions Online, 100 max people in any given zone. Anything more than that and an instanced is created.
Most likely they will do the same with STO. Having multiple instances of Earth and fleet battles over the same objective. I tell you, Cryptic are incapable of creating a real MMORPG. Everything they have done has been instanced to oblivion.
My gaming blog
What Cryptic is going to release in February. Which will piss off a lot of Trek fans who didn't know what they were buying. The STO fora are going to get very ugly.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
What Cryptic is going to release in February. Which will piss off a lot of Trek fans who didn't know what they were buying. The STO fora are going to get very ugly.
Yep, I estimate the retention rate, after 3-4 months, would be less than 10%.
My gaming blog
I'm not commenting on the argument one way or the other, but he didn't say what you said that he did. He actually said that they were making a game not just for trekkers, but for MMO players as well. I should know. he said it to me.
ZOMG PWNED!
QFT!
You could say that, i am new here though so peoples long standing thoughts on certain topics are new to me but im picking up as quickly as i can. I know it irritates a few people to have to 'teach' the new guys. (No way near new to MMO's.)
Im going to merge my response to both parts into one because i feel i can answer them better that way. I totally agree about the NPC/PC crew idea. Fill the spaces with AI until filled by a player character. It's a great idea. I would've likely made the same thing Cryptic have done, but given the option to form a totally 'player only' crew. Which by the way, if you bug them about constantly, you never know. They could offer it as new content further down the line....buut....theres then the problem of ships with NPC only having the advantage of only one internet connection to worry about, one mind to make decisions. It kind of brings up the whole human/borg arguement. Which is better, one mind making decisions or, i'll just say 'chaos' to borrow a phrase.
I think they didnt want to complicate it, people will argue that they were just going for simple work, easy money, but at the end of the day its a business. They wanted to hit a larger audience (for more money. Okay for the purpose of this response, assume all things are to earn money, because, well, they are.) There doing what J.J did, they want to hit as many fans as possible with it, make it easy and accessible. (For money). It's not the godsend trek experience we've all dreamed of but theres another problem, we all have different views on what would be the perfect trek game. Im sure i'll find mine in this though, (Exploration.) Though im trying not to get excited about that because it could sound better than it is. From what im aware of, i 'think' that its instanced (Yeah yawn i know) and you can catalogue discoveries, because it then saves the data from that planet and race, and you can visit it, or share the file or whatever it is with your friends, fleet or what not.
I have to admit the 'what it could have been' is always nice to think of, but then again isnt the grass always greener on the other side.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
QFT. Everyone has their own ideas on what should be in a trek game and no one's is more important than another's. I'm still waiting for my Borg experience that was dashed in 2001 when Activision dropped "Borg Assimilator." My idea of a perfect Trek game would be to add a player run economy, more playable factions, and a more open PVP( which means that if you cross into enemy territory you are automatically flagged and can be shot.) But I think what Cryptic has done is fine and not the great big disaster that some around here are claiming.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
QFT. Everyone has their own ideas on what should be in a trek game and no one's is more important than another's. I'm still waiting for my Borg experience that was dashed in 2001 when Activision dropped "Borg Assimilator." My idea of a perfect Trek game would be to add a player run economy, more playable factions, and a more open PVP( which means that if you cross into enemy territory you are automatically flagged and can be shot.) But I think what Cryptic has done is fine and not the great big disaster that some around here are claiming.
Yeah for lack of a better word, it will be fun. A game can't fail before its even launched....except maybe the Perpetual version. If it makes more money than it cost to make, its a success, weather you like it or not. I personally, arent looking for the simulator that i originally wished for. (I had high expectations.) but now, as stated before and pointed out nicely, everyones ideal star trek experience is different from each others.
The good news is by the way is that most of the ideas you wanted, Open PvP, player run economy (Players control the economy anyway to be honest, in one way or another), and the factions are definately coming. I mean, we've seen pictures of Romulan ships on their own, close up. Which tells me there actually looking at ship models, and perhaps the next two species to be added. Which i think will be Romulan (For certain) and Jem' Hadar, (Depending on their place in the story.) Another option is Cardassians, but the point is, the great thing about MMO's is that its never finished. Ever. Which is what Craig at Cryptic has said already, meaning they constantly seek to add new content, which for us, is great news.
Here's a great idea. Allow fleets the option to customize a system (Much like player housing) Create the planet, race, structures etc with the same options they have when they 'generate' new worlds. Just one of the many ideas that can be implemented after launch. So even if they hit a bump at launch, because lets face it, what MMO has never suffered any set backs. I have a feeling they have enough fans (and i mean fans, people who like their games, and like their effort in a star trek MMO, not just people who buy the title.) to get them through and establish themselves as a solid MMO choice.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Something can be a financial success even if NO ONE likes it. Given the short development time and how Cryptic games are usually like, and all the hype, I fully expect STO to make a lot of money. I don't expect it to have a lot of depth to the game play, nor do I expect it to feel much like a Star Trek game should. There are plenty of Trekkies that don't care about those things and if the last movie was any guide there are plenty of non-trekkies like that too. I expect high initial box scales, and relatively low retention, but the initial box sales and playing for a few months will get them quite a good ROI, I think, since this game was so quick to develop. In short, I'd be surprised if this wasn't a financial success and also surprised if the game was actually good.
The only thing I've gotten so far on the PVP is the fighting over neutral zone territory and possibly the public quest system. Cryptic stated a few times that the Romulans was their first choice to be added in an expansion. I think what they're going to do is add factions as the story goes along. The lore for this game starts with the Federation condeming of the Klingons for invading Romulan space. Right now the Romulans have no homeworld( or a place to call home as far as I know) so it will take them awhile to become a military power again. Once that happens you'll see the announcment of the first expansion.
I'm not sure about creating planets but I do think it would be neat to customize any of the planets that you take over or allow to join your faction.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I wish Perpetual was still handeling STO as well as I just don't have confidence in Cryptic. They did a very poor job with CO and I don't think they will fair much better with STO. I mean 2 years of development and so far only 40 hours of actual CB testing
I am just not inspired with confidence. I feel like I am watching the construction of the Titanic and had one of those Final Destination moments where I see the ship sinking before it's even ready for launch. I fear the back lash on this title will be epic 
which means I will likely not see a decent Star Trek MMO in my life time as failed MMO's based off of IP's rarely get a second chance.
It doesn't offend me, it's just a fallacy to assume that to be able to criticize something you have to be able to create something better. Do film critics make films? Do book critics write books? Do game critics develop games? Some do, but it is by no means a requirement.
It doesn't offend me, it's just a fallacy to assume that to be able to criticize something you have to be able to create something better. Do film critics make films? Do book critics write books? Do game critics develop games? Some do, but it is by no means a requirement.
This is true but film critics watch the film before criticizing it, book critics read the book before criticizing it, game critics play the game before criticizing it... I think you know where I'm going with this.
Edit: Just to clarify... It's perfectly alright to have concerns about a game in development and to voice those concerns but to say a game is going to fail or is doomed before you even play it is taking it way to far.
Bren
while(horse==dead)
{
beat();
}