Originally posted by SonikFlash Its not special treatment. Your not paying for the service your paying for the hardware. Once you own the hardware its yours do do with as you please. And as far as your next post. This is why copyright laws need to be reformed until they are I forward you to revolutiontt
The fact you buy a book does not mean the content and ideas included in the book are yours, you can freely use, modify them to your liking and present them as your own.
Xbox as a piece of hardware serves not only as a medium of IP but its protection as well.
If it is legal to mod your xbox, then it should be legal to demand removing all CD-Keys and all forms of anti-piracy protection.
"“Sometimes I buy, sometimes I download, but I am not a criminal..,” is the message the consumer organization is trying to put across in the newly launched campaign."
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
"“Sometimes I buy, sometimes I download, but I am not a criminal..,” is the message the consumer organization is trying to put across in the newly launched campaign."
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
"“Sometimes I buy, sometimes I download, but I am not a criminal..,” is the message the consumer organization is trying to put across in the newly launched campaign."
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
No, that is not what I have on mind. Hypocrisy might be just unaware, I am talking about a situation where you and me know very well that I did something wrong but my alibi is solid enough not to be shaken by any arguments. The case when everyone knows you're a prick following other interests than you present but nothing can be proven to you.
"“Sometimes I buy, sometimes I download, but I am not a criminal..,” is the message the consumer organization is trying to put across in the newly launched campaign."
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
You mean the 11 trillion dollars spent isnt going to have everything fixed by 2012? Maybe a few billion spent at Copenhagen along with higher gas prices will set things right. Im really shocked that "spending our way out of debt" hasnt helped arnt you?
It's funny how this thread became a discussion about the legality of modding an x-box and government infringing on people's rights. Actually, everyone should have realized that Microsoft is not a government entity, and hence any position that they take regarding how they run their company or enforce their service has nothing to do with legality.
The OP was referencing a potential civil lawsuit against a private organization (Microsoft) because of their practice of restricting their privately run service (xbox live) to players with un-modded boxes. Actually, it doesn't appear as if this directly prevents anyone from modding their box. And if I understand the way x-boxes work, a modded box can still play single player games. The only thing that Microsoft is doing is restricting their x-box live service. Whether they can be sued for money, or for injunctive relief is the legal question.
Keep in mind, that Microsoft is a private entity, much like any other privately run businesses. Our government traditionally supports private enterprise and their rights in how they provide services to people. Hence those signs in restaraunts we see that say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." The one caveat would be if the refusal of the service was discriminatory on some recognized equal protection ground. Which is why the government was able to regulate private business to prevent racial discrimination. It'd be a difficult argument to make that the group of players who own modded x-boxes are a recognized protected class for the purpose of arguing government intervention.
I'm not on one side or another, just pointing out that this topic really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not modding an x-box is legal or illegal. (It's legal, btw.)
"“Sometimes I buy, sometimes I download, but I am not a criminal..,” is the message the consumer organization is trying to put across in the newly launched campaign."
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
You mean the 11 trillion dollars spent isnt going to have everything fixed by 2012? Maybe a few billion spent at Copenhagen along with higher gas prices will set things right. Im really shocked that "spending our way out of debt" hasnt helped arnt you?
Yeah like you are doing anything better. Sitting here complaining. Do something with your life than.
Originally posted by SonikFlash Its not special treatment. Your not paying for the service your paying for the hardware. Once you own the hardware its yours do do with as you please. And as far as your next post. This is why copyright laws need to be reformed until they are I forward you to revolutiontt On a side note, the game companies cant control us, they have no right to. If they keep shoving crap out their doors and hoping people will pay money for it, they are gravely mistaken. Ill continue to pirate my black heart out until games start being released that are worth the money spent.
What a complete pile of horse crap.
The simple fact is, the laws of the land support the game companies and not YOU. As long as they do, the game companies CAN and DO have the right to instigate as many controls as possible to stop the illegal acquisition and use of their software and hardware.
If you have modified a piece of hardware that uses their services, they have every right to cut you off from that service. Every single XBox Live customer accepted an agreement that said exactly that, most likely without even reading it.
So pull your head out of your backside and stop trying to rationalize theft. If you are a thief, be a thief, man up, and stop making excuses.
You complain about games being produced that aren't worth the money spent. How long do you think any development studio can continue to pour millions of dollars into salaries, technologies, and development while the number of people who steal their product continues to rise and the number of those who purchase the product legitimately continues to fall?
The current copyright laws are outstanding. They protect the rights of the people who put their hard work, talent, and effort into their product to be compensated for that work. If you don't want the product, or believe that it is sub-par, don't buy it.
By stealing it, all you are doing is admitting the product has value and that you are a thief.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq Adnihilo Beorn Judge's Edge Somnulus Perfect Black ---------------------- Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2 Everquest / Everquest 2 Anarchy Online Shadowbane Dark Age of Camelot Star Wars Galaxies Matrix Online World of Warcraft Guild Wars City of Heroes
"“Sometimes I buy, sometimes I download, but I am not a criminal..,” is the message the consumer organization is trying to put across in the newly launched campaign."
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
You mean the 11 trillion dollars spent isnt going to have everything fixed by 2012? Maybe a few billion spent at Copenhagen along with higher gas prices will set things right. Im really shocked that "spending our way out of debt" hasnt helped arnt you?
Yeah like you are doing anything better. Sitting here complaining. Do something with your life than.
Well its obvious you have expired your list of liberal talking points and now the personal attacks begin. Perhaps after a few years in the workforce you will get a clue as to what makes the economy and other things work. In the meantime, hang onto the hope and enjoy the change you voted for in your first presidential election.
"“Sometimes I buy, sometimes I download, but I am not a criminal..,” is the message the consumer organization is trying to put across in the newly launched campaign."
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
You mean the 11 trillion dollars spent isnt going to have everything fixed by 2012? Maybe a few billion spent at Copenhagen along with higher gas prices will set things right. Im really shocked that "spending our way out of debt" hasnt helped arnt you?
Yeah like you are doing anything better. Sitting here complaining. Do something with your life than.
Well its obvious you have expired your list of liberal talking points and now the personal attacks begin. Perhaps after a few years in the workforce you will get a clue as to what makes the economy and other things work. In the meantime, hang onto the hope and enjoy the change you voted for in your first presidential election.
Didn't vote sweetheart....and I know what it takes, I also know what it takes to make a better healthcare system, something we don't have. Yes, please deny me because I have lyme disease....yes, please deny me because I broke my arm 2 years ago...so much better. I'm as liberal as I want to be but you know what? Atleast I do something more than complain about it.
These modders, better pray that the FBI don't subpoena microsoft for every banned user's info. This lawsuit might be the worst move they ever made
If they did there would be larger lawsuits on their hands. I know there have been people in the past banned from XBL for 'modding' when in all reality they had no mods on their system. MY problem with the whole banning isnt the fact that the persons Xbox is banned from Live. It is the fact that their HD is turned into a useless brick because of the banning. This goes back to the whole "I buy a car and mod the engine to make it run more fuel efficently, 'big oil' finds out and comes and breaks my car, then my legs to make sure I cant drive anymore" THAT is more what Xbox is doing.
These modders, better pray that the FBI don't subpoena microsoft for every banned user's info. This lawsuit might be the worst move they ever made
If they did there would be larger lawsuits on their hands. I know there have been people in the past banned from XBL for 'modding' when in all reality they had no mods on their system. MY problem with the whole banning isnt the fact that the persons Xbox is banned from Live. It is the fact that their HD is turned into a useless brick because of the banning. This goes back to the whole "I buy a car and mod the engine to make it run more fuel efficently, 'big oil' finds out and comes and breaks my car, then my legs to make sure I cant drive anymore" THAT is more what Xbox is doing.
Piracy is bad mmmkay.
Maybe in your country thats the case, but in America its not. Xbox has legal authority to do as they please with their hardware. DMCA once again for the people who are americans is very clear that you hold no ownership over your console, there have been arrests as documented by ICE over this simple face. If you have mods in your system it is illegal no matter what the mods are it is illegal finable and you can server a jail sentence if caught. Any mod chip is a violation of the DMCA in that it circumvents copyright protections to be able to operate.
I know canada almost passed a bill to ratify a dmca esque law. The UK is still a grey area, but recently even in the UK it has been getting more strict with mr.mod chipper only getting off with a technicality on part of the prosecutors, the judge said that should the prosecutor argued a different point, then by all rights mr.mod chipper and associates would have gone to jail pretty much stating that the act of mod chips is also illegal there as well.
No it is nothing like your analogy, copyright law is this way and its slowly creeping over to other parts of the world. You aren't stealing anything from big oil nor do you have the potential to steal, you are by all rights embarking on capitalism legally.
But alright if we want to use fancy analogies lets say I know you have one hundred dollars. There is a fifty percent chance that I'm going to punch you in the stomach then steal your money. Now I'm not saying I would do that, but its the same idea with pirating. There is a good chance that a person with a mod chip sees the potential to either make money, or to get things that aren't theres for free, by stealing someone elses work and therefor there money, and livelyhood. Its as equally likely that they might do something nice with it, but if you knew there was a chance you were about to be jumped would you not take every precaution you could to avoid being jumped?
If you say no, then please meet me in a dark alley because I would love to steal your monies.
There is a difference between your analogy in that if big oil did all that it would be obviously illegal, but microsoft is again protected under the growing laws of copyright infringement.
Again I'll put it in perspective, lets say you were to order a flash cart for your ds. Now a flash cart isn't made by Nintendo, and because they are illegal in the U.S the only way you can import is via Canada, or another Country. Now if Customs notices its a flash cart, they will call Nintendo not the maker of the cart and ask if its a fake. Nintendo will reply since it is not made by them that yes it is a fake. Customs will then confiscate it and there is a chance that you might be fined for trafficking illegal goods.
Ask yourself this, is if mod chipping is so legal as long as you play nice, why is ICE, and Customs for the U.S banning it? Why is Ebay, Amazon and various other sites taking down every single mod chip item in the store? Why are the courts In the UK ruling in favor of the corporations?
Are you kidding? It is against the terms of XBOX Live when you have this modded xbox, the name is not yours, it is their's you use their service and should do it right. Those with modded Xbox 360s SHOULD be banned, how dare you think you are special and get things that others do not have in your region. Enough is enough, play fair or don't play at all. You mod your Xbox, your PS3, PSP, Wii...you SHOULD be banned, you are paying for a service that is being provided by someone else, it is not your service, you are just paying to use it.
Its not special treatment. Your not paying for the service your paying for the hardware. Once you own the hardware its yours do do with as you please. And as far as your next post. This is why copyright laws need to be reformed until they are I forward you to revolutiontt
On a side note, the game companies cant control us, they have no right to. If they keep shoving crap out their doors and hoping people will pay money for it, they are gravely mistaken. Ill continue to pirate my black heart out until games start being released that are worth the money spent.
If the games sucked why waste the time to even download them?
How else are you supposed to know a game sucks if you don't play it? Hence the entire argument.. "I'm not paying $60 for something only to find out it sucks".
Renting and demos. Almost every major release has had a demo weather on 360/PS3/or PC. The only recent buy I didn't try was Beatles Rock Band, but of course I knew what it would be.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day. And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
I fully agree that if you mod your xbox then you should be banned from xbox live, but, you should have the right to mod your xbox if you want as you purchased the hardware, otherwise you are just renting it and you should have constant and total right to get it fixed or sent back when not wanted again.
See modding doesn't always mean adding chips to circumvent digital rights systems but also things like bigger hard drives etc.
It amazes me how often people, especially gamers, do completely wrong things and then attack the companies afterwards.
Yes you should be banned from XBox Live for modding your console, you should also get a fine. On top of that the people who do it need to grow up and realize they can't do whatever they want and not suffer consequences.
They're the same people that exploit a bug in an MMO and then cry when they get banned. It's getting so old to hear about these types of idiots. Some company should just make a list of all of them and instantly ban them from every gaming product on Earth. Then none of us have to listen to their crap ever again.
I fully agree that if you mod your xbox then you should be banned from xbox live, but, you should have the right to mod your xbox if you want as you purchased the hardware, otherwise you are just renting it and you should have constant and total right to get it fixed or sent back when not wanted again. See modding doesn't always mean adding chips to circumvent digital rights systems but also things like bigger hard drives etc.
My AR 15 is mine also but that doesnt give me the right to use it to rob banks or shoot someone.
Edit. For the morons among us, I was using this analogy that illegal use of a legitimate item is still illegal.
Originally posted by Kuro1n DMCA is fucking stupid, if you pay for something you pay for it and its yours end of story. Im really happy i dont live in the US..
Both are IP and as such you don't own it. You are provided the hardware with certain TOS same way as when you are buying last CD of Robbie Williams.
You are not happy not to live in USA, you are lucky not to live there because in some countries theft is still illegal.
These modders, better pray that the FBI don't subpoena microsoft for every banned user's info. This lawsuit might be the worst move they ever made
If they did there would be larger lawsuits on their hands. I know there have been people in the past banned from XBL for 'modding' when in all reality they had no mods on their system. MY problem with the whole banning isnt the fact that the persons Xbox is banned from Live. It is the fact that their HD is turned into a useless brick because of the banning. This goes back to the whole "I buy a car and mod the engine to make it run more fuel efficently, 'big oil' finds out and comes and breaks my car, then my legs to make sure I cant drive anymore" THAT is more what Xbox is doing.
Piracy is bad mmmkay.
Maybe in your country thats the case, but in America its not. Xbox has legal authority to do as they please with their hardware. DMCA once again for the people who are americans is very clear that you hold no ownership over your console, there have been arrests as documented by ICE over this simple face. If you have mods in your system it is illegal no matter what the mods are it is illegal finable and you can server a jail sentence if caught. Any mod chip is a violation of the DMCA in that it circumvents copyright protections to be able to operate.
I know canada almost passed a bill to ratify a dmca esque law. The UK is still a grey area, but recently even in the UK it has been getting more strict with mr.mod chipper only getting off with a technicality on part of the prosecutors, the judge said that should the prosecutor argued a different point, then by all rights mr.mod chipper and associates would have gone to jail pretty much stating that the act of mod chips is also illegal there as well.
No it is nothing like your analogy, copyright law is this way and its slowly creeping over to other parts of the world. You aren't stealing anything from big oil nor do you have the potential to steal, you are by all rights embarking on capitalism legally.
But alright if we want to use fancy analogies lets say I know you have one hundred dollars. There is a fifty percent chance that I'm going to punch you in the stomach then steal your money. Now I'm not saying I would do that, but its the same idea with pirating. There is a good chance that a person with a mod chip sees the potential to either make money, or to get things that aren't theres for free, by stealing someone elses work and therefor there money, and livelyhood. Its as equally likely that they might do something nice with it, but if you knew there was a chance you were about to be jumped would you not take every precaution you could to avoid being jumped?
If you say no, then please meet me in a dark alley because I would love to steal your monies.
There is a difference between your analogy in that if big oil did all that it would be obviously illegal, but microsoft is again protected under the growing laws of copyright infringement.
Again I'll put it in perspective, lets say you were to order a flash cart for your ds. Now a flash cart isn't made by Nintendo, and because they are illegal in the U.S the only way you can import is via Canada, or another Country. Now if Customs notices its a flash cart, they will call Nintendo not the maker of the cart and ask if its a fake. Nintendo will reply since it is not made by them that yes it is a fake. Customs will then confiscate it and there is a chance that you might be fined for trafficking illegal goods.
Ask yourself this, is if mod chipping is so legal as long as you play nice, why is ICE, and Customs for the U.S banning it? Why is Ebay, Amazon and various other sites taking down every single mod chip item in the store? Why are the courts In the UK ruling in favor of the corporations?
The problem with your whole point is you are rolling everyone who mods a system into one group, and those are the pirates. Yes those are the majority of the group, but they are NOT the only people who 'mod' a system. The reason Xbox live bans 'modded systems' isnt because "OMG you're running Ubuntu on a 360!" it's because they quiet honestly cant tell (for most) what the mod is....If it's a mod chip to play 'pirated' games or a mod to cheat in Modern warfare 2...Cheating and piracy is bad. But modifying my system should NOT be. If I want to open it up, put in better fans, fix the mounting of the graphic chip so it doesnt E74 on me or whatever..I should be ABLE to. But by your words that is against the rules, which is a load of poop
As for ordering a flash cart, no the item itself isnt illegal. As this would be along the same lines of saying "OMG blank DVDs..you're a movie priate!"
Originally posted by Milander The problem with your whole point is you are rolling everyone who mods a system into one group, and those are the pirates. Yes those are the majority of the group, but they are NOT the only people who 'mod' a system. The reason Xbox live bans 'modded systems' isnt because "OMG you're running Ubuntu on a 360!" it's because they quiet honestly cant tell (for most) what the mod is....If it's a mod chip to play 'pirated' games or a mod to cheat in Modern warfare 2...Cheating and piracy is bad. But modifying my system should NOT be. If I want to open it up, put in better fans, fix the mounting of the graphic chip so it doesnt E74 on me or whatever..I should be ABLE to. But by your words that is against the rules, which is a load of poop As for ordering a flash cart, no the item itself isnt illegal. As this would be along the same lines of saying "OMG blank DVDs..you're a movie priate!"
Why can you make an NDA with your employer bounding you to not being able to work in the same industry for extended period of time even after you leave the company? This is a standard procedure.
Why can you claim conditions how photos you are selling will be used, where, what magazine and by whom? This is a standard procedure.
Why on earth I couldn't do the same with my piece of electronics? It is my IP, and I have a right to defend it like in both cases above.
DMCA is fucking stupid, if you pay for something you pay for it and its yours end of story. Im really happy i dont live in the US..
Both are IP and as such you don't own it. You are provided the hardware with certain TOS same way as when you are buying last CD of Robbie Williams.
You are not happy not to live in USA, you are lucky not to live there because in some countries theft is still illegal.
IP? wtf are you talking about?
And wtf do you mean im not happy to not live in the US? Im fucking crying in joy when i see what american users writes in this thread and i realize i dont live in the same fucking country.
Originally posted by Kuro1n IP? wtf are you talking about? And wtf do you mean im not happy to not live in the US? Im fucking crying in joy when i see what american users writes in this thread and i realize i dont live in the same fucking country.
While I most often tend to side with consumers in cases like these, I think MS is in the right, here. You should be allowed to mod your Xbox however you wish, I agree with that. But I don't believe that MS should be obligated to provide services to your modded machine. I believe MS is on both moral and legal grounds, here.
Now, if they were sending updates to these modded boxes which render them unusable, THAT would be a wholly different story. I've been hearing stories like that for the WII boxes, but mostly just rumor.
Comments
The fact you buy a book does not mean the content and ideas included in the book are yours, you can freely use, modify them to your liking and present them as your own.
Xbox as a piece of hardware serves not only as a medium of IP but its protection as well.
If it is legal to mod your xbox, then it should be legal to demand removing all CD-Keys and all forms of anti-piracy protection.
Stupid Europeans...
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
No, that is not what I have on mind. Hypocrisy might be just unaware, I am talking about a situation where you and me know very well that I did something wrong but my alibi is solid enough not to be shaken by any arguments.
The case when everyone knows you're a prick following other interests than you present but nothing can be proven to you.
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
You mean the 11 trillion dollars spent isnt going to have everything fixed by 2012? Maybe a few billion spent at Copenhagen along with higher gas prices will set things right. Im really shocked that "spending our way out of debt" hasnt helped arnt you?
It's funny how this thread became a discussion about the legality of modding an x-box and government infringing on people's rights. Actually, everyone should have realized that Microsoft is not a government entity, and hence any position that they take regarding how they run their company or enforce their service has nothing to do with legality.
The OP was referencing a potential civil lawsuit against a private organization (Microsoft) because of their practice of restricting their privately run service (xbox live) to players with un-modded boxes. Actually, it doesn't appear as if this directly prevents anyone from modding their box. And if I understand the way x-boxes work, a modded box can still play single player games. The only thing that Microsoft is doing is restricting their x-box live service. Whether they can be sued for money, or for injunctive relief is the legal question.
Keep in mind, that Microsoft is a private entity, much like any other privately run businesses. Our government traditionally supports private enterprise and their rights in how they provide services to people. Hence those signs in restaraunts we see that say "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." The one caveat would be if the refusal of the service was discriminatory on some recognized equal protection ground. Which is why the government was able to regulate private business to prevent racial discrimination. It'd be a difficult argument to make that the group of players who own modded x-boxes are a recognized protected class for the purpose of arguing government intervention.
I'm not on one side or another, just pointing out that this topic really doesn't have anything to do with whether or not modding an x-box is legal or illegal. (It's legal, btw.)
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
You mean the 11 trillion dollars spent isnt going to have everything fixed by 2012? Maybe a few billion spent at Copenhagen along with higher gas prices will set things right. Im really shocked that "spending our way out of debt" hasnt helped arnt you?
Yeah like you are doing anything better. Sitting here complaining. Do something with your life than.
What a complete pile of horse crap.
The simple fact is, the laws of the land support the game companies and not YOU. As long as they do, the game companies CAN and DO have the right to instigate as many controls as possible to stop the illegal acquisition and use of their software and hardware.
If you have modified a piece of hardware that uses their services, they have every right to cut you off from that service. Every single XBox Live customer accepted an agreement that said exactly that, most likely without even reading it.
So pull your head out of your backside and stop trying to rationalize theft. If you are a thief, be a thief, man up, and stop making excuses.
You complain about games being produced that aren't worth the money spent. How long do you think any development studio can continue to pour millions of dollars into salaries, technologies, and development while the number of people who steal their product continues to rise and the number of those who purchase the product legitimately continues to fall?
The current copyright laws are outstanding. They protect the rights of the people who put their hard work, talent, and effort into their product to be compensated for that work. If you don't want the product, or believe that it is sub-par, don't buy it.
By stealing it, all you are doing is admitting the product has value and that you are a thief.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
You mean the 11 trillion dollars spent isnt going to have everything fixed by 2012? Maybe a few billion spent at Copenhagen along with higher gas prices will set things right. Im really shocked that "spending our way out of debt" hasnt helped arnt you?
Yeah like you are doing anything better. Sitting here complaining. Do something with your life than.
Well its obvious you have expired your list of liberal talking points and now the personal attacks begin. Perhaps after a few years in the workforce you will get a clue as to what makes the economy and other things work. In the meantime, hang onto the hope and enjoy the change you voted for in your first presidential election.
I'm with grandpa on this one.
Only possible in retarded Europe... It is just another sign of decadence of europian mentality.
Personaly, I don't undertsand your point of view at all.
You buy a product with some terms of use, which is a deal between 2 involved parties. If you do not wish to respect and follow the terms of use, don't buy it.
It is simple as that, nothing complicated.
Sorry you live in the retarded country/union here, i dont. We dont need you if your gonna talk like that, dont forget that your country derive from europe (or any other part of the world) unless your a indian which i doubt.
Native American...Indians come from India...Native Americans come from North/South America.
Actually the native american is of asian decent according to the theory that a landbridge existed between what is now Alaska and Europe.
If you really want to get into this. Native Americans did come from somewhere else but as they settled from their nomadic ways, they were in North and South America...making them the natives that were first seen by those who discovered the new worlds. The only reason they were referred to as Indians is because Christopher Columbus believed he had made it to India and began to call them such of what you call most people from another place. They are Native Americans those where once (but not actually since most were dead LONG before the discovery of North and South America since it was thousands of years since the world was once a large land and connected) from another country. Their ancestors may have came from somewhere else but those Native Americans were born in the lands that they had called come for many centuries. Since it wasn't till the 1600s that the Americas were found. Also as per your other comment.....it is people like you that give Americans a bad name. As Avenged Sevenfold's Critical Acclaim songs goes:
"All the way from the east to the west
We've got this high society looking down on this very foundation
Constantly reminding us that our actions are the cause of all their problems
Pointing the fingers in every direction
Blaming their own nation for who wins elections
They've never contributed a fucking thing to the country they love to criticize"
I give americans a bad name? Its ok, Obama will apologize for me im sure.
I think people should stand up and grow up...apologize for their own wrong doings and stop being idiots when it comes to the government.
And I think Obama's apology tour pretty much covered all of the evil America has done to the world in the last 200 years.
There is a difference between evil and down right stupidity like what you are doing by thinking you know how to run the government. How about in 2012 you run for President.
You mean the 11 trillion dollars spent isnt going to have everything fixed by 2012? Maybe a few billion spent at Copenhagen along with higher gas prices will set things right. Im really shocked that "spending our way out of debt" hasnt helped arnt you?
Yeah like you are doing anything better. Sitting here complaining. Do something with your life than.
Well its obvious you have expired your list of liberal talking points and now the personal attacks begin. Perhaps after a few years in the workforce you will get a clue as to what makes the economy and other things work. In the meantime, hang onto the hope and enjoy the change you voted for in your first presidential election.
Didn't vote sweetheart....and I know what it takes, I also know what it takes to make a better healthcare system, something we don't have. Yes, please deny me because I have lyme disease....yes, please deny me because I broke my arm 2 years ago...so much better. I'm as liberal as I want to be but you know what? Atleast I do something more than complain about it.
If they did there would be larger lawsuits on their hands. I know there have been people in the past banned from XBL for 'modding' when in all reality they had no mods on their system. MY problem with the whole banning isnt the fact that the persons Xbox is banned from Live. It is the fact that their HD is turned into a useless brick because of the banning. This goes back to the whole "I buy a car and mod the engine to make it run more fuel efficently, 'big oil' finds out and comes and breaks my car, then my legs to make sure I cant drive anymore" THAT is more what Xbox is doing.
Piracy is bad mmmkay.
If they did there would be larger lawsuits on their hands. I know there have been people in the past banned from XBL for 'modding' when in all reality they had no mods on their system. MY problem with the whole banning isnt the fact that the persons Xbox is banned from Live. It is the fact that their HD is turned into a useless brick because of the banning. This goes back to the whole "I buy a car and mod the engine to make it run more fuel efficently, 'big oil' finds out and comes and breaks my car, then my legs to make sure I cant drive anymore" THAT is more what Xbox is doing.
Piracy is bad mmmkay.
Maybe in your country thats the case, but in America its not. Xbox has legal authority to do as they please with their hardware. DMCA once again for the people who are americans is very clear that you hold no ownership over your console, there have been arrests as documented by ICE over this simple face. If you have mods in your system it is illegal no matter what the mods are it is illegal finable and you can server a jail sentence if caught. Any mod chip is a violation of the DMCA in that it circumvents copyright protections to be able to operate.
I know canada almost passed a bill to ratify a dmca esque law. The UK is still a grey area, but recently even in the UK it has been getting more strict with mr.mod chipper only getting off with a technicality on part of the prosecutors, the judge said that should the prosecutor argued a different point, then by all rights mr.mod chipper and associates would have gone to jail pretty much stating that the act of mod chips is also illegal there as well.
No it is nothing like your analogy, copyright law is this way and its slowly creeping over to other parts of the world. You aren't stealing anything from big oil nor do you have the potential to steal, you are by all rights embarking on capitalism legally.
But alright if we want to use fancy analogies lets say I know you have one hundred dollars. There is a fifty percent chance that I'm going to punch you in the stomach then steal your money. Now I'm not saying I would do that, but its the same idea with pirating. There is a good chance that a person with a mod chip sees the potential to either make money, or to get things that aren't theres for free, by stealing someone elses work and therefor there money, and livelyhood. Its as equally likely that they might do something nice with it, but if you knew there was a chance you were about to be jumped would you not take every precaution you could to avoid being jumped?
If you say no, then please meet me in a dark alley because I would love to steal your monies.
There is a difference between your analogy in that if big oil did all that it would be obviously illegal, but microsoft is again protected under the growing laws of copyright infringement.
Again I'll put it in perspective, lets say you were to order a flash cart for your ds. Now a flash cart isn't made by Nintendo, and because they are illegal in the U.S the only way you can import is via Canada, or another Country. Now if Customs notices its a flash cart, they will call Nintendo not the maker of the cart and ask if its a fake. Nintendo will reply since it is not made by them that yes it is a fake. Customs will then confiscate it and there is a chance that you might be fined for trafficking illegal goods.
Ask yourself this, is if mod chipping is so legal as long as you play nice, why is ICE, and Customs for the U.S banning it? Why is Ebay, Amazon and various other sites taking down every single mod chip item in the store? Why are the courts In the UK ruling in favor of the corporations?
Its not special treatment. Your not paying for the service your paying for the hardware. Once you own the hardware its yours do do with as you please. And as far as your next post. This is why copyright laws need to be reformed until they are I forward you to revolutiontt
On a side note, the game companies cant control us, they have no right to. If they keep shoving crap out their doors and hoping people will pay money for it, they are gravely mistaken. Ill continue to pirate my black heart out until games start being released that are worth the money spent.
If the games sucked why waste the time to even download them?
How else are you supposed to know a game sucks if you don't play it? Hence the entire argument.. "I'm not paying $60 for something only to find out it sucks".
Renting and demos. Almost every major release has had a demo weather on 360/PS3/or PC. The only recent buy I didn't try was Beatles Rock Band, but of course I knew what it would be.
Hold on Snow Leopard, imma let you finish, but Windows had one of the best operating systems of all time.
If the Powerball lottery was like Lotro, nobody would win for 2 years, and then everyone in Nebraska would win on the same day.
And then Nebraska would get nerfed.-pinkwood lotro fourms
AMD 4800 2.4ghz-3GB RAM 533mhz-EVGA 9500GT 512mb-320gb HD
DMCA is fucking stupid, if you pay for something you pay for it and its yours end of story. Im really happy i dont live in the US..
I fully agree that if you mod your xbox then you should be banned from xbox live, but, you should have the right to mod your xbox if you want as you purchased the hardware, otherwise you are just renting it and you should have constant and total right to get it fixed or sent back when not wanted again.
See modding doesn't always mean adding chips to circumvent digital rights systems but also things like bigger hard drives etc.
It amazes me how often people, especially gamers, do completely wrong things and then attack the companies afterwards.
Yes you should be banned from XBox Live for modding your console, you should also get a fine. On top of that the people who do it need to grow up and realize they can't do whatever they want and not suffer consequences.
They're the same people that exploit a bug in an MMO and then cry when they get banned. It's getting so old to hear about these types of idiots. Some company should just make a list of all of them and instantly ban them from every gaming product on Earth. Then none of us have to listen to their crap ever again.
My AR 15 is mine also but that doesnt give me the right to use it to rob banks or shoot someone.
Edit. For the morons among us, I was using this analogy that illegal use of a legitimate item is still illegal.
Both are IP and as such you don't own it. You are provided the hardware with certain TOS same way as when you are buying last CD of Robbie Williams.
You are not happy not to live in USA, you are lucky not to live there because in some countries theft is still illegal.
If they did there would be larger lawsuits on their hands. I know there have been people in the past banned from XBL for 'modding' when in all reality they had no mods on their system. MY problem with the whole banning isnt the fact that the persons Xbox is banned from Live. It is the fact that their HD is turned into a useless brick because of the banning. This goes back to the whole "I buy a car and mod the engine to make it run more fuel efficently, 'big oil' finds out and comes and breaks my car, then my legs to make sure I cant drive anymore" THAT is more what Xbox is doing.
Piracy is bad mmmkay.
Maybe in your country thats the case, but in America its not. Xbox has legal authority to do as they please with their hardware. DMCA once again for the people who are americans is very clear that you hold no ownership over your console, there have been arrests as documented by ICE over this simple face. If you have mods in your system it is illegal no matter what the mods are it is illegal finable and you can server a jail sentence if caught. Any mod chip is a violation of the DMCA in that it circumvents copyright protections to be able to operate.
I know canada almost passed a bill to ratify a dmca esque law. The UK is still a grey area, but recently even in the UK it has been getting more strict with mr.mod chipper only getting off with a technicality on part of the prosecutors, the judge said that should the prosecutor argued a different point, then by all rights mr.mod chipper and associates would have gone to jail pretty much stating that the act of mod chips is also illegal there as well.
No it is nothing like your analogy, copyright law is this way and its slowly creeping over to other parts of the world. You aren't stealing anything from big oil nor do you have the potential to steal, you are by all rights embarking on capitalism legally.
But alright if we want to use fancy analogies lets say I know you have one hundred dollars. There is a fifty percent chance that I'm going to punch you in the stomach then steal your money. Now I'm not saying I would do that, but its the same idea with pirating. There is a good chance that a person with a mod chip sees the potential to either make money, or to get things that aren't theres for free, by stealing someone elses work and therefor there money, and livelyhood. Its as equally likely that they might do something nice with it, but if you knew there was a chance you were about to be jumped would you not take every precaution you could to avoid being jumped?
If you say no, then please meet me in a dark alley because I would love to steal your monies.
There is a difference between your analogy in that if big oil did all that it would be obviously illegal, but microsoft is again protected under the growing laws of copyright infringement.
Again I'll put it in perspective, lets say you were to order a flash cart for your ds. Now a flash cart isn't made by Nintendo, and because they are illegal in the U.S the only way you can import is via Canada, or another Country. Now if Customs notices its a flash cart, they will call Nintendo not the maker of the cart and ask if its a fake. Nintendo will reply since it is not made by them that yes it is a fake. Customs will then confiscate it and there is a chance that you might be fined for trafficking illegal goods.
Ask yourself this, is if mod chipping is so legal as long as you play nice, why is ICE, and Customs for the U.S banning it? Why is Ebay, Amazon and various other sites taking down every single mod chip item in the store? Why are the courts In the UK ruling in favor of the corporations?
The problem with your whole point is you are rolling everyone who mods a system into one group, and those are the pirates. Yes those are the majority of the group, but they are NOT the only people who 'mod' a system. The reason Xbox live bans 'modded systems' isnt because "OMG you're running Ubuntu on a 360!" it's because they quiet honestly cant tell (for most) what the mod is....If it's a mod chip to play 'pirated' games or a mod to cheat in Modern warfare 2...Cheating and piracy is bad. But modifying my system should NOT be. If I want to open it up, put in better fans, fix the mounting of the graphic chip so it doesnt E74 on me or whatever..I should be ABLE to. But by your words that is against the rules, which is a load of poop
As for ordering a flash cart, no the item itself isnt illegal. As this would be along the same lines of saying "OMG blank DVDs..you're a movie priate!"
Why can you make an NDA with your employer bounding you to not being able to work in the same industry for extended period of time even after you leave the company?
This is a standard procedure.
Why can you claim conditions how photos you are selling will be used, where, what magazine and by whom?
This is a standard procedure.
Why on earth I couldn't do the same with my piece of electronics? It is my IP, and I have a right to defend it like in both cases above.
Both are IP and as such you don't own it. You are provided the hardware with certain TOS same way as when you are buying last CD of Robbie Williams.
You are not happy not to live in USA, you are lucky not to live there because in some countries theft is still illegal.
IP? wtf are you talking about?
And wtf do you mean im not happy to not live in the US? Im fucking crying in joy when i see what american users writes in this thread and i realize i dont live in the same fucking country.
IP = Intellectual Property
While I most often tend to side with consumers in cases like these, I think MS is in the right, here. You should be allowed to mod your Xbox however you wish, I agree with that. But I don't believe that MS should be obligated to provide services to your modded machine. I believe MS is on both moral and legal grounds, here.
Now, if they were sending updates to these modded boxes which render them unusable, THAT would be a wholly different story. I've been hearing stories like that for the WII boxes, but mostly just rumor.