Play Joust for an afternoon(or Pac Man or whatever)! You will enjoy your afternoon and peoples will think you are a geek. But you will also see the evolution and all.
The grind is ALWAYS fun and welcome when you actually enjoy the game, if you dont enjoy the game, then the grind is a serious issue. I would play a whole month to just gain that extra level if I enjoy the game enought, a lack of grind is worser then a harsh and painfull grind...of course the best would be unlimited levels(which mean unlimited grind, never step but eternal), but peoples dont like that for some reasons. *shrug*
I never complain about the troubles to gain a level with my chanter, my drood or my broadsword scrapper...My rogue alternate, my cleric alternate, my spines alternate is another matter where I curse and bitch at the grind...because I am not that motivated.
You will hopefully be surprised by a game sooner or later, someone somewhere will have a brilliant idea, MMO, ''battlenet'' or whatever, folks are trying to figure pastimes non-stop.
Playing Miss Pac Man will never restore the feeling of playing Pac Man, I am sorry, it is the way it is, broaden your horison and play old games! They are fun as well! Someone that miss the DragonLance trilogy seriously miss a lot, be prepared to read, have lowly graphic, game based turn AD&D, they are still my best experience. I did play Bard's tales before, and I did play Baldur's gate after, and I appreciate them all, but, my heart go with DragonLance and for some reason, the Forgotten Realms are fine, but 1 huge step behind in my tastes, and it have nothing to do with the world, it is in the game and story.
If you speak 2 language relatively well, try to play in your secondary language, your personality is usually younger, more joyfull and easier to amaze in your secondary language...trying to ''impress'' me in french is a hell of a job, dont even think of trying to get me watch Buffy, South Park or the Simpsons in French, in english they are all fun!
Go download Catans at Oberron site and play it with voice input with friends, it is really great for the cold nights of winter if you want something simple and ''better then Monopoly''. hehe
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
I totaly agree. Its all really the same just in different packaging. Most new games are "Ooh, cool option. Neat runction", and then when all that passes its still the damn same.
Personaly I think MMORPG creators are doing it all wrong. I think if they focus on creating a great game and then add the "MMO" after. Take games like The Elder Scrolls III. Its a great game...if only they could get that kind of quality in MMO...but i doubt its gonna happen.
Originally posted by Yoruyonaka Go for roma victor http://www.roma-victor.com no levels. Everyone has realistic human strengths and abilities. Damage is entirely realistic, so veteran players aren't immune to n00bs. Controls are FPSish. Nothing like typical MMORPGs, you control directly from first person view. As for quests, you don't have quests per say, just realistic stuff. But, you can kill the emperor of Rome and take his place, for crissakes, I think that's about as big and world influencing as a quest gets
Remember kids, when you see the lava coming, duck and cover!!!
Thanks for the tip, that game looks very interesting! Judging from a few screenies I checked, I hope they'll improve the ground textures and render some shadows. But very exiting to read about it.
I have had a lot of the same feelings as a lot of the posters here. I quit EQ, played horizons (for the free month), played lots of free MMO's, Beta'd several and nothing has really been too great. WoW has been fun and a bit of a change of pace for me, but I'm really looking forward to the Games like D&L and D&D Online this next year. I just keep hoping that something cool will come out. Good luck and hope you find what you're looking for....
Originally posted by starman999 I have to agree with the original poster.... Just cant seem to find a game that feels fresh and exciting. I am playing WOW right now but I cant shake the feeling of deja Vu that i get. It would be nice to see a game come out that involves the players more into the actual storyline of the game. I realize that it would require more Live events with GMs playing the part of NPCs but I say people would respond and it would all be worth it, Let the players shape the world instead of just having this static environment that will never evolve regardless of the actions of those who inhabit it.
Please don't lose hope. Not yet. I've also been playing WoW, and yes - it is very passive. Great graphics though, and overall - a very well done game. At leastthey made the grind not seem as bad as many other games. But then again, it should be the cream of the crop. They have had plenty of opportunity to perfect the same old thing, add a slight variation, fund a huge team, and garner lot's of top press.
Over three years ago now, I began trying to get people to see the vision I knew would come for a world affected by players. It first started with the Adrenaline Vault Interview on 08.27.02 followed by the long slow process of exposing fresh ideas to build interest and community. Where some woul dhave already given up because they did not yet find funding, I press on because I was told long ago that Trail Blazers have the toughest time at first, but afterwards everyon can only follow their footsteps. There are many who have called my project "vaporware" and that is ok. They can call it mom if they want.
Sites such as MMORPG.com have refused to list us, nor give us the time of day, that is until this past December when Gamergod hosted a new interview.
I'm finding a lot more of these kinds of posts on forums all over the world wide web, and it encourages me to press on. But please, don't lose hope. Our community has been well aware and loyal for a couple years and I have never hidden the truth from them. They know that the project has not been funded, but they also know that it could be at any moment. In the meantime, make the most out of WoW, or your other favorite games. After all it is the more experienced crowd that realizes their actions don't amount to anything in those MMOGs, and not the younger new generation of gamers.
It's going to be a little hard on players at first to get them to approach a product like Frontier 1859 with an open mind. I have a lot of MMOG baggage and 25 year old D&D rule implementations to shave off of a future horde of players, but like you - they are hoping that their actions affect the world around them.
We have a plan for you.
Blessings to you and yours, thank you for a moment of your time.
No, it's not just that MMOs are repetitive now, it's the fact that the majority of us forgot what makes a mmorpg fun...
Community.
All we do now is level up and grind like there is no tomorrow, we need to start to enjoy the game, enjoy all the different contents for different levels, have fun with some people u meet, not "level up so I can get X item".
Xzaro, where have you been? You haven't posted in a LONG time!
Anyway, your right, they are getting reptitive.
Mmorpgs that are coming out that I know that are not the usual are Auto Assault(looks sweet! must check out! Good Concept!), Tabula Rasa(Ya I know there is still monsters and stuff like that, but it looks different because you can use voice chat, the skills and weapons looks weird but cool), City of Villians(Good Super heros vs. villians! Good concept!), Dark and Light(many unique things you can do in this game!). Well those are the games that I think are unique and which I will want to play.
Ummm.. About that thread tho... I had to vote "Hell no", not becuz Im scared of change.. Its just.. The Permadeath thing really gets to me, also, open PvP kinda turns me off. Unless you have an extremely mature player base, open PvP is gonna really blow for everyone cept those kids who had summer break off to play hours on end, get great gear, or lvls, or anything. Meaning, its gonna be newbie ganking time. Which blows.
Actually tho, Ive been playing WoW lately.. Im not totally immersed or anything, cuz its not really made for ppl like me, but... Its still nice. Like, getting quests that make me do fun stuff is, well, fun. Playing Rogue and being told to sneak around a tower of syndicates n pickpocket them so the "other rogues will stop spitting on me" is kinda neat.
Still tho, the crafting system isnt built how I would like it. Crafting is extremely important to me. N WoW is made so that everyone can craft. I cant really get into it, but hey, its the best thing for me atm.
I remember back to the guilded age of the beginings of daoc and beataing swg and remembered the sure awe of the experaince and the fun that i had there in both places for a while and look to my recent "trys both flops" and i realized it wasn't so much the genra' is same ole same ole'
it truely is me that has changed.
i honestly do not think another game in the next 4 years will come out that captured me and my imgination, the way those too games did. Besides dreaming about characters, planning next stragedgy or changing toons, the other i got to plan cities housing decorating, play toons that didn't have any combat skills had a ball trying different options.
I do not blame the deveolpers either. I am sure that other compaines will examine wow inside and out and try and figure out a way to emmulate the sure sucess of that game. As a result instead of more eq clones, we may see much more wow type of games coming suddenly announced.........
THough wow broke through the teen market, the general audiance of gamers is aging.
As a result of aging, real life responsiblites, many of us do not want to spend 30 + hours a week sitting in a game and expect that to bring us a rich "virutal gaming experaince".
We have a life, already, many of us want to get on, go bash, craft ,or interact and just have fun.
We do not want to spend a hour lfg, doing game chores, organizing inventory, game chores, we just want to get on and play already.
A deveolper that will forget about time/money sinks, add useable equipable loot, changes of armor, dyes, "party clothes", have options besides craft and hunt, and some social features could be a big hit.
The fun or perceived fun has to be in place to lure folks to the market hype. What we have learned with so many of them being the same ole same ole, we may just not be as willing to plop down 50 bucks a pop and 15 + . We will become more choosey about where we play, what we play and spend less time "allowing the deveolpers to get it right " if it is not fun to us the first few months..........
Community is the least important factor. There will always be nice and jerks folks around, no matter what you say. On the internet, with no direct contact with other players, the game matter a lot more then the players.
When my RL friends are not online, I care a lot less about the others players and a LOT more about what I can do solo, so community is the least important factor, EQ servers with worst community did fine or worst just as equally as those with the nicest communities, and dont try to tell me the community was equal on every server, and dont try to tell me the best or worst community did any better then the other, they didnt. The roleplaying servers have the nicest communities of all, and they did pretty poor compare to regular servers in terms of amount of players subscribing and in game achievement. Of every aspect, I would say community is at the bottom of the barrel, it is nearly irrelevant. The direction of the clouds in your sky matter more then community.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Community is the least important factor. There will always be nice and jerks folks around, no matter what you say. On the internet, with no direct contact with other players, the game matter a lot more then the players.
When my RL friends are not online, I care a lot less about the others players and a LOT more about what I can do solo, so community is the least important factor, EQ servers with worst community did fine or worst just as equally as those with the nicest communities, and dont try to tell me the community was equal on every server, and dont try to tell me the best or worst community did any better then the other, they didnt. The roleplaying servers have the nicest communities of all, and they did pretty poor compare to regular servers in terms of amount of players subscribing and in game achievement. Of every aspect, I would say community is at the bottom of the barrel, it is nearly irrelevant. The direction of the clouds in your sky matter more then community.
You couldn't be more mistaken. But then again, that is your perogative. Your "solo" play as you call it exists only in a single player game. To prove this fact, I dare you to play one week without asking one single person for anything - not even "where do I find ... blah blah." Turn off your chat to because reading what other people have to say is not "soloing" and will disprove your point. Oh and you can't sell anything to anyone either - and leave this forum for a week - because you don't need anyone - you said community is the least important factor. Why then should you waste your words on us?
You see, 'solo-play" in a mmorpg is like the Amish denying modernism but yet having to sell their goods in the modern marketplace in order to survive.
Team players are what makes the game shine. Cohercing players to work together for a common cause is good design. What's more is that too many soloists ruin games. Selfishly running around looking for all that can be theirs - asking endless questions but gutless to take a risk or help someone other than themself (often bailing on the team once their quest is met without helping others finish their quest). Your what ruins the purpose of an MMORPG. But you won't accept that fact because you got yourself fooled real good into thinking it's all about you. But that's ok - it's your perogative. Remember though - not even the chat window can be on for one week, and no selling to anyone - because for you - they have no purpose and they are not the general audience. It's all about solo play.
Community is important. But more importantly is how far the community is allowed to piss eachother off.
In a game where things like KSing, looting other ppl's mobs, "training" or MPKing are made impossible, then the community is usually okay. Then you just occasionally get ppl who think verbal harrassment is alright, but if the above things have been thought out, then usually theres actually GMs who will take care of that also.
The community is wat makes the MMO. Without that, you have a crappy single player game, where you cant acknowledge anyone else's achievements, and they cant acknowledge yours. You cant compliment other's abilities, they cant compliment yours. Personally, I like the adventure of doing things way higher lvl than me, n occasionally getting that really awesome party where you kno to watch everybody else's backs, n you kno theyll do the same for you.
Anyways, this is kinda off-topic, so Ill leave it at that :S
But Wow is acutally pretty funny... lol, because im only level 5 in it.
You can find only the deeper things from sci-fi at this moment.
But I am waiting for ORP, Online Role Playing.
There will be servers and in all you will be in like 6/20 peoples group, and you play the game like those old good RPG games (Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale...etc, etc)
Originally posted by manday I kno ppl are gonna tell me to get Eve Online.. But Im *so* not into sci-fi, n doing nothing to skillup really doesnt interest me.
That doing "nothing" is actually the beaty of it, because it let you do "anything" and still your character advances. Your character will advance no matter if you're trader, mercenary, pirate, bountyhunter, mission junkie, hardcore miner or what ever you do. I wish more mmorpgs would give it a try or do something similar instead the normal level grind, so there would be game with skill system similar to eves for these who like more fantasy style settings.
One of most horrible idea I have encountered in some mmorpgs is making trader/crafter a some sort of combat class and even traders will be forced to find that level x bunny that will give them enough xp that they can level their trading skill, so they can hopefully make some better item.
In international ragnarok online I have like 5 friends out of what? 15k players? Not so great, I been there for almost 3 years. Owow!
Legend of MiR 3 USA beta? I have many friends and FUN, not bad for a month.
Lineage 2? I didnt have a friend for days, just comepetition, same as EQ.....
Make a friend and then the game really is cool. Take a friend in the beginning who you really know for real and avoid the hassel of meeting scammers, cheats and slime balls. Kill them with your friends and bingo!
Originally posted by leipuri That doing "nothing" is actually the beaty of it, because it let you do "anything" and still your character advances. Your character will advance no matter if you're trader, mercenary, pirate, bountyhunter, mission junkie, hardcore miner or what ever you do. I wish more mmorpgs would give it a try or do something similar instead the normal level grind, so there would be game with skill system similar to eves for these who like more fantasy style settings. One of most horrible idea I have encountered in some mmorpgs is making trader/crafter a some sort of combat class and even traders will be forced to find that level x bunny that will give them enough xp that they can level their trading skill, so they can hopefully make some better item.
I understand how it could be great for some ppl.. But I have a lot of spare time (aka no life), so when Im playing, I wanna feel like Im accomplishing things faster than others... I dont wanna sit around doing nothing for 6 months to feel like Im average.
I *ABSOLUTELY* agree with you on the crafting aspect tho. Id love a game where I could get a high lvl craft without combat lvl restrictions. Ive already seen this type, but heh they had too many other areas wrong with them.
Dont get me wrong. I like going on to mindlessly kill things for no apparent reason (occasionally). I also like grouping up to fight things much, much higher lvl than me. But crafting.. Thats my one true (gaming) love. For me, being able to max every craft, or at least the ones I want, get every piece of equipment Id ever need, plus enuff money to live a lavish life (example: things like paying a newbie to let you /follow them to your planned destination )
Spending money ingame on stupidunnecessary things (+ items, enchants, etc), paying ppl to work for me, that kinda stuff is fun. Hmmm.. Wish I could find a game that was at least partly based around that. (Besides Eve, sorry >.>;)
Originally posted by Anofalye Community is the least important factor. There will always be nice and jerks folks around, no matter what you say. On the internet, with no direct contact with other players, the game matter a lot more then the players. When my RL friends are not online, I care a lot less about the others players and a LOT more about what I can do solo, so community is the least important factor, EQ servers with worst community did fine or worst just as equally as those with the nicest communities, and dont try to tell me the community was equal on every server, and dont try to tell me the best or worst community did any better then the other, they didnt. The roleplaying servers have the nicest communities of all, and they did pretty poor compare to regular servers in terms of amount of players subscribing and in game achievement. Of every aspect, I would say community is at the bottom of the barrel, it is nearly irrelevant. The direction of the clouds in your sky matter more then community.
Man, I could not possibly disagree more. Maybe if you constantly have a large group of RL friends with you in every game, or all you want to do is solo, other people aren't very relevant to you, but I think for most of us they are. Good people can elevate a mediocre game experience whereas jerks can ruin a great one.
It may well be that servers all have some good people and some bad people but with the huge numbers of people on servers there is also some luck involved. Sometimes you might just easily find your type of people, who also happen to play similar hours, and sometimes it's not that easy.
As for having no RL contact, that's FAR from the case for most people I know. My EQ1 guild, and most other large long-term guilds I know, developed a hell of a lot of RL contact. A few years ago we started having annual get togethers, and even beyond that whenever people travel they always seek out whatever guildmates may live in their destination area. I have met innumerable great people this way.
I had the same problem with this genre as well. I've found a solution for myself though, I only play on small UO servers, NWN, and PnP chat games. I also do PnP forum games. I don't really see the point in paying another cent to MMORPG developers until they come up with something new or, at the very least, more entertaining than the current crop of games.
Having said that, I still have hope and keep up to speed on the goings on in this particular market. There's potential here but I'm not in the habit of paying for potential. I pay for what's here and now. So far, it looks like I'll be laying money down for Guild Wars and the PC version of Phantasy Star Online if it ever makes it to these shores. I also look for different things from MMORPGs than I look for in single player RPGs and PnP games.
If you really feel that this isn't what you're looking for, why not try some RP encouraging MUDs?
www.mudconnector.com should have exactly what you're looking for so long as it doesn't use graphics or sound.
Originally posted by DBMc You couldn't be more mistaken. But then again, that is your perogative. Your "solo" play as you call it exists only in a single player game. To prove this fact, I dare you to play one week without asking one single person for anything - not even "where do I find ... blah blah." Turn off your chat to because reading what other people have to say is not "soloing" and will disprove your point. Oh and you can't sell anything to anyone either - and leave this forum for a week - because you don't need anyone - you said community is the least important factor. Why then should you waste your words on us? You see, 'solo-play" in a mmorpg is like the Amish denying modernism but yet having to sell their goods in the modern marketplace in order to survive. Team players are what makes the game shine. Cohercing players to work together for a common cause is good design. What's more is that too many soloists ruin games. Selfishly running around looking for all that can be theirs - asking endless questions but gutless to take a risk or help someone other than themself (often bailing on the team once their quest is met without helping others finish their quest). Your what ruins the purpose of an MMORPG. But you won't accept that fact because you got yourself fooled real good into thinking it's all about you. But that's ok - it's your perogative. Remember though - not even the chat window can be on for one week, and no selling to anyone - because for you - they have no purpose and they are not the general audience. It's all about solo play. -
You write much better then me, and I will admit I am at a big disadvantage. However, I will try. I surf the net and discuss and help many soloers in games like Baldur's gate, and they would be on ICQ, I would put it on and try to help them, so not discussing with others is a bad idea, I am to the maximum of my capacities in solo games, more tools to discuss, all the better.
As a soloer, I often accept to group, to give advice, to help peoples, even if there is no benefit for me and I would do better soloing, but I will admit that the average soloer is not like me, so targeting me as an average ''evil soloer'' would be an anti-exemple, I help more peoples then most Guides or GMs ever did in old EQ, this is why so many peoples call the ''Ano's bangwagon'' when I was arguing with raiders. So let's avoid taking me as an exemple. Many achieved raiders would have taken an anti-solo point of view and praise raiding enforcing, but when they see it was me arguing, they pause, they remember the advice I gave them, the time I spend with them, never a LOT, I never help any stranger a lot, I divide it a little to everyone, and many of them could not muster any argumentation against me and try to quiet others raiders, despite the fact they where, agreeing with them and I could not really convince them, they just remember I was a nice fellow and they feel sorry that solo was shafted while they have everything, so the least they could do was to make the guild as quiet as possible. I never mind the arguing, but eventually, I leave the game and they feel sorry for that lost, knowing very well it was meaning many many newcomers would be ignored in OOC in EQ, or anywhere else, now that I was not there anymore to take the time to answer the newcomers.
Peoples PLAY, they escape a world full of restrictions and limitations. Althought a MMORPG should provide a coherent environment, it need to allow the player as much freedom as possible.
- A soloer in an instanced dungeon dont remove anyone any option. The more soloers you have, the more options you open to every players, including the soloers themselves. Maybe a flag like: Not in a grouping mood could be a nice option to save peoples building groups time.
- A chronic soloer tend to be lonely and prone to talking and answering peoples in need. A chronic grouper is anything but lonely, they tend to ignore random questions from strangers. As strange as it sound, soloers, on the advice level, are more likely to help then anyone else, they are lonely and somewhat bored and in a limited social opening.
- Soloer, been alone, tend to be easy to argue with and talk him into a compromise when a conflict arise. Groupers, you take the worst of the group member and you get him 50% worser and this is the answer you get, folks are pretty rude at fighting for what belong to them when they are in numbers and unlikely to find an agreement with others. When I play solo and meet soloers, it rarely end with open defiant KS. When 2 groups clash, it is awfull.
- A MMORPG have little control over the community, they can only provide a nice game to improve the mood of the players.
- Enforcing anything reduce it appeal.
- Big guilds that focus on raiding and grouping a lot are usually the harsher community, they often have pretty rude comments against family guilds, saying they are not there for the lames and they dont care if you dont have their guildtag. I never see that much hatred so systematically spread among soloers, yes a soloer or 2 can be nasty, but it is usually rare, never widespread, and they usually are twinks or waiting for a raid.
- When I start twinks and ask questions, advice, help, raiders are those that help the least. Groupers come in the middle, while soloers are the more prone to answers my request providing nobody know I was behind the twink. Raiders where even more likely to mislead me or be rude(STFU noob) then to actually be helpfull.
- CoH player community outshine EQ, EQ2 and WoW community...CoH have the highest % of soloers in it...yet, to enjoy CoH, you dont need to mixt with them, you can ignore them unless they ask you stuff and odds are, you will be happy to help. Everytime I need 3 persons to come help me to click my bombs inside CoH and waste 10 minutes of their time for no reward, I always got tons of answers and help...I also did help a lot of peoples with that or an Archvillain they where unable to kill, then I resume my soloing, there was nothing for me into helping them, I did, many soloers did the same. If CoH didnt build such superficial obstacles, that positive energy would have been spent in others ways to help strangers, a little, but now, we already help them some, so we have less desired to...enforcing dont work.
Without the others players, the MMORPGs dont stand the road against Baldur's Gate even if I finish it so often it would make you feel all weird. Group OPTION is nice, OBLIGATION kill sowly the game, and remove the nicest players from the games.
But others players dont equal community, and the company have no impact on it.
What you propose me to do would be like saying: ''Distilled water is a must, dont drink any liquid for 3 days to prove me wrong'' We both know I would be dead in 3 days if I dont drink any liquid.
If solo is nice inside the MMORPG, you gain soloers in instanced zones that can be talked to, asked stuff, offer to group, the fact they accept or not those groups is irrelevant, they are there, and if they are free to join or ignore an offer, this is a lot better then not having them at all.
Grouping need it motivation, but it is not inside solo uberness or enforcing soloers to group that you will find this motivation. Unique items that are useless while soloing but godlike when grouping is a possible solution, and myself would try to hoard both. There are many others ways to reward grouping, dont do it at the expense of soloers. Someone should want to group for grouping reasons, nothing else. Same with any aspect of the game.
Solo is to a MMORPG what capitalism is to Democracy.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
Buy a collection of old games!
Play Joust for an afternoon(or Pac Man or whatever)! You will enjoy your afternoon and peoples will think you are a geek. But you will also see the evolution and all.
The grind is ALWAYS fun and welcome when you actually enjoy the game, if you dont enjoy the game, then the grind is a serious issue. I would play a whole month to just gain that extra level if I enjoy the game enought, a lack of grind is worser then a harsh and painfull grind...of course the best would be unlimited levels(which mean unlimited grind, never step but eternal), but peoples dont like that for some reasons. *shrug*
I never complain about the troubles to gain a level with my chanter, my drood or my broadsword scrapper...My rogue alternate, my cleric alternate, my spines alternate is another matter where I curse and bitch at the grind...because I am not that motivated.
You will hopefully be surprised by a game sooner or later, someone somewhere will have a brilliant idea, MMO, ''battlenet'' or whatever, folks are trying to figure pastimes non-stop.
Playing Miss Pac Man will never restore the feeling of playing Pac Man, I am sorry, it is the way it is, broaden your horison and play old games! They are fun as well! Someone that miss the DragonLance trilogy seriously miss a lot, be prepared to read, have lowly graphic, game based turn AD&D, they are still my best experience. I did play Bard's tales before, and I did play Baldur's gate after, and I appreciate them all, but, my heart go with DragonLance and for some reason, the Forgotten Realms are fine, but 1 huge step behind in my tastes, and it have nothing to do with the world, it is in the game and story.
If you speak 2 language relatively well, try to play in your secondary language, your personality is usually younger, more joyfull and easier to amaze in your secondary language...trying to ''impress'' me in french is a hell of a job, dont even think of trying to get me watch Buffy, South Park or the Simpsons in French, in english they are all fun!
Go download Catans at Oberron site and play it with voice input with friends, it is really great for the cold nights of winter if you want something simple and ''better then Monopoly''. hehe
- "Solo is, will always be, the main market. A MMORPG that succeed with little or no solo appeal is doing great considering they are ignoring the main player base.''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I am waiting for this game to become a reality. If you snoop around the site you might be intrigued.
www.trialsofascension.com
1. Permadeath
2. skill-based
3. immersive
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
Permadeath and environmental challenges are the next great step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Only through true adversity will one feel accomplished. Only in truly knowing you can die will true adversity present itself.
That's why I'm following the following games... they're trying to stray from the formula:
Darkfall
Trials of Ascension
Frontier 1859
I totaly agree. Its all really the same just in different packaging. Most new games are "Ooh, cool option. Neat runction", and then when all that passes its still the damn same.
Personaly I think MMORPG creators are doing it all wrong. I think if they focus on creating a great game and then add the "MMO" after. Take games like The Elder Scrolls III. Its a great game...if only they could get that kind of quality in MMO...but i doubt its gonna happen.
Thanks for the tip, that game looks very interesting! Judging from a few screenies I checked, I hope they'll improve the ground textures and render some shadows. But very exiting to read about it.
Tacklebury --}>>>
Tacklebury --}>>>
-DBMc
No, it's not just that MMOs are repetitive now, it's the fact that the majority of us forgot what makes a mmorpg fun...
Community.
All we do now is level up and grind like there is no tomorrow, we need to start to enjoy the game, enjoy all the different contents for different levels, have fun with some people u meet, not "level up so I can get X item".
Too much competition going on in MMOs now.
Xzaro, where have you been? You haven't posted in a LONG time!
Anyway, your right, they are getting reptitive.
Mmorpgs that are coming out that I know that are not the usual are Auto Assault(looks sweet! must check out! Good Concept!), Tabula Rasa(Ya I know there is still monsters and stuff like that, but it looks different because you can use voice chat, the skills and weapons looks weird but cool), City of Villians(Good Super heros vs. villians! Good concept!), Dark and Light(many unique things you can do in this game!). Well those are the games that I think are unique and which I will want to play.
~Greatness~
Currently Playing:
Nothing
Lol cant believe you bumped this.
Ummm.. About that thread tho... I had to vote "Hell no", not becuz Im scared of change.. Its just.. The Permadeath thing really gets to me, also, open PvP kinda turns me off. Unless you have an extremely mature player base, open PvP is gonna really blow for everyone cept those kids who had summer break off to play hours on end, get great gear, or lvls, or anything. Meaning, its gonna be newbie ganking time. Which blows.
Actually tho, Ive been playing WoW lately.. Im not totally immersed or anything, cuz its not really made for ppl like me, but... Its still nice. Like, getting quests that make me do fun stuff is, well, fun. Playing Rogue and being told to sneak around a tower of syndicates n pickpocket them so the "other rogues will stop spitting on me" is kinda neat.
Still tho, the crafting system isnt built how I would like it. Crafting is extremely important to me. N WoW is made so that everyone can craft. I cant really get into it, but hey, its the best thing for me atm.
Im still waiting tho.
I remember back to the guilded age of the beginings of daoc and beataing swg and remembered the sure awe of the experaince and the fun that i had there in both places for a while and look to my recent "trys both flops" and i realized it wasn't so much the genra' is same ole same ole'
it truely is me that has changed.
i honestly do not think another game in the next 4 years will come out that captured me and my imgination, the way those too games did. Besides dreaming about characters, planning next stragedgy or changing toons, the other i got to plan cities housing decorating, play toons that didn't have any combat skills had a ball trying different options.
I do not blame the deveolpers either. I am sure that other compaines will examine wow inside and out and try and figure out a way to emmulate the sure sucess of that game. As a result instead of more eq clones, we may see much more wow type of games coming suddenly announced.........
THough wow broke through the teen market, the general audiance of gamers is aging.
As a result of aging, real life responsiblites, many of us do not want to spend 30 + hours a week sitting in a game and expect that to bring us a rich "virutal gaming experaince".
We have a life, already, many of us want to get on, go bash, craft ,or interact and just have fun.
We do not want to spend a hour lfg, doing game chores, organizing inventory, game chores, we just want to get on and play already.
A deveolper that will forget about time/money sinks, add useable equipable loot, changes of armor, dyes, "party clothes", have options besides craft and hunt, and some social features could be a big hit.
The fun or perceived fun has to be in place to lure folks to the market hype. What we have learned with so many of them being the same ole same ole, we may just not be as willing to plop down 50 bucks a pop and 15 + . We will become more choosey about where we play, what we play and spend less time "allowing the deveolpers to get it right " if it is not fun to us the first few months..........
I disagree.
Community is the least important factor. There will always be nice and jerks folks around, no matter what you say. On the internet, with no direct contact with other players, the game matter a lot more then the players.
When my RL friends are not online, I care a lot less about the others players and a LOT more about what I can do solo, so community is the least important factor, EQ servers with worst community did fine or worst just as equally as those with the nicest communities, and dont try to tell me the community was equal on every server, and dont try to tell me the best or worst community did any better then the other, they didnt. The roleplaying servers have the nicest communities of all, and they did pretty poor compare to regular servers in terms of amount of players subscribing and in game achievement. Of every aspect, I would say community is at the bottom of the barrel, it is nearly irrelevant. The direction of the clouds in your sky matter more then community.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You couldn't be more mistaken. But then again, that is your perogative. Your "solo" play as you call it exists only in a single player game. To prove this fact, I dare you to play one week without asking one single person for anything - not even "where do I find ... blah blah." Turn off your chat to because reading what other people have to say is not "soloing" and will disprove your point. Oh and you can't sell anything to anyone either - and leave this forum for a week - because you don't need anyone - you said community is the least important factor. Why then should you waste your words on us?
You see, 'solo-play" in a mmorpg is like the Amish denying modernism but yet having to sell their goods in the modern marketplace in order to survive.
Team players are what makes the game shine. Cohercing players to work together for a common cause is good design. What's more is that too many soloists ruin games. Selfishly running around looking for all that can be theirs - asking endless questions but gutless to take a risk or help someone other than themself (often bailing on the team once their quest is met without helping others finish their quest). Your what ruins the purpose of an MMORPG. But you won't accept that fact because you got yourself fooled real good into thinking it's all about you. But that's ok - it's your perogative.
Remember though - not even the chat window can be on for one week, and no selling to anyone - because for you - they have no purpose and they are not the general audience. It's all about solo play.
-
Community is important. But more importantly is how far the community is allowed to piss eachother off.
In a game where things like KSing, looting other ppl's mobs, "training" or MPKing are made impossible, then the community is usually okay. Then you just occasionally get ppl who think verbal harrassment is alright, but if the above things have been thought out, then usually theres actually GMs who will take care of that also.
The community is wat makes the MMO. Without that, you have a crappy single player game, where you cant acknowledge anyone else's achievements, and they cant acknowledge yours. You cant compliment other's abilities, they cant compliment yours. Personally, I like the adventure of doing things way higher lvl than me, n occasionally getting that really awesome party where you kno to watch everybody else's backs, n you kno theyll do the same for you.
Anyways, this is kinda off-topic, so Ill leave it at that :S
EDIT: Lil edit
I have tired of much of them too...
But Wow is acutally pretty funny... lol, because im only level 5 in it.
You can find only the deeper things from sci-fi at this moment.
But I am waiting for ORP, Online Role Playing.
There will be servers and in all you will be in like 6/20 peoples group, and you play the game like those old good RPG games (Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale...etc, etc)
Thats my idea...
What's a MMORPG without a community?
Oh, that's right, a single player game with endless grinding.
That doing "nothing" is actually the beaty of it, because it let you do "anything" and still your character advances. Your character will advance no matter if you're trader, mercenary, pirate, bountyhunter, mission junkie, hardcore miner or what ever you do. I wish more mmorpgs would give it a try or do something similar instead the normal level grind, so there would be game with skill system similar to eves for these who like more fantasy style settings.
One of most horrible idea I have encountered in some mmorpgs is making trader/crafter a some sort of combat class and even traders will be forced to find that level x bunny that will give them enough xp that they can level their trading skill, so they can hopefully make some better item.
The secret is having fun and friends both!
In international ragnarok online I have like 5 friends out of what? 15k players? Not so great, I been there for almost 3 years. Owow!
Legend of MiR 3 USA beta? I have many friends and FUN, not bad for a month.
Lineage 2? I didnt have a friend for days, just comepetition, same as EQ.....
Make a friend and then the game really is cool. Take a friend in the beginning who you really know for real and avoid the hassel of meeting scammers, cheats and slime balls. Kill them with your friends and bingo!
Don't ya eat the yellow snow!
I understand how it could be great for some ppl.. But I have a lot of spare time (aka no life), so when Im playing, I wanna feel like Im accomplishing things faster than others... I dont wanna sit around doing nothing for 6 months to feel like Im average.
I *ABSOLUTELY* agree with you on the crafting aspect tho. Id love a game where I could get a high lvl craft without combat lvl restrictions. Ive already seen this type, but heh they had too many other areas wrong with them.
Dont get me wrong. I like going on to mindlessly kill things for no apparent reason (occasionally). I also like grouping up to fight things much, much higher lvl than me. But crafting.. Thats my one true (gaming) love. For me, being able to max every craft, or at least the ones I want, get every piece of equipment Id ever need, plus enuff money to live a lavish life (example: things like paying a newbie to let you /follow them to your planned destination
)
Spending money ingame on stupidunnecessary things (+ items, enchants, etc), paying ppl to work for me, that kinda stuff is fun.
Hmmm.. Wish I could find a game that was at least partly based around that. (Besides Eve, sorry >.>;)
"things like paying a newbie to let you /follow them to your planned destination
)"
hehe, and people complain they can't get a cab in these games.
Man, I could not possibly disagree more. Maybe if you constantly have a large group of RL friends with you in every game, or all you want to do is solo, other people aren't very relevant to you, but I think for most of us they are. Good people can elevate a mediocre game experience whereas jerks can ruin a great one.
It may well be that servers all have some good people and some bad people but with the huge numbers of people on servers there is also some luck involved. Sometimes you might just easily find your type of people, who also happen to play similar hours, and sometimes it's not that easy.
As for having no RL contact, that's FAR from the case for most people I know. My EQ1 guild, and most other large long-term guilds I know, developed a hell of a lot of RL contact. A few years ago we started having annual get togethers, and even beyond that whenever people travel they always seek out whatever guildmates may live in their destination area. I have met innumerable great people this way.
I had the same problem with this genre as well. I've found a solution for myself though, I only play on small UO servers, NWN, and PnP chat games. I also do PnP forum games. I don't really see the point in paying another cent to MMORPG developers until they come up with something new or, at the very least, more entertaining than the current crop of games.
Having said that, I still have hope and keep up to speed on the goings on in this particular market. There's potential here but I'm not in the habit of paying for potential. I pay for what's here and now. So far, it looks like I'll be laying money down for Guild Wars and the PC version of Phantasy Star Online if it ever makes it to these shores. I also look for different things from MMORPGs than I look for in single player RPGs and PnP games.
If you really feel that this isn't what you're looking for, why not try some RP encouraging MUDs?
www.mudconnector.com should have exactly what you're looking for so long as it doesn't use graphics or sound.
And rent continues to pimp a game that isn't even off the drawing board yet!!!
HEY RENT!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion.cfm?load=forums&loadclass=35&loadforum=51&loadthread=33076&jumptopost=328146&fp=1024,768,544156109
give us a working prototype AND THEN pimp the game. Ideas, in and of themselves, are worthless.
You write much better then me, and I will admit I am at a big disadvantage. However, I will try. I surf the net and discuss and help many soloers in games like Baldur's gate, and they would be on ICQ, I would put it on and try to help them, so not discussing with others is a bad idea, I am to the maximum of my capacities in solo games, more tools to discuss, all the better.
As a soloer, I often accept to group, to give advice, to help peoples, even if there is no benefit for me and I would do better soloing, but I will admit that the average soloer is not like me, so targeting me as an average ''evil soloer'' would be an anti-exemple, I help more peoples then most Guides or GMs ever did in old EQ, this is why so many peoples call the ''Ano's bangwagon'' when I was arguing with raiders. So let's avoid taking me as an exemple. Many achieved raiders would have taken an anti-solo point of view and praise raiding enforcing, but when they see it was me arguing, they pause, they remember the advice I gave them, the time I spend with them, never a LOT, I never help any stranger a lot, I divide it a little to everyone, and many of them could not muster any argumentation against me and try to quiet others raiders, despite the fact they where, agreeing with them and I could not really convince them, they just remember I was a nice fellow and they feel sorry that solo was shafted while they have everything, so the least they could do was to make the guild as quiet as possible. I never mind the arguing, but eventually, I leave the game and they feel sorry for that lost, knowing very well it was meaning many many newcomers would be ignored in OOC in EQ, or anywhere else, now that I was not there anymore to take the time to answer the newcomers.
Peoples PLAY, they escape a world full of restrictions and limitations. Althought a MMORPG should provide a coherent environment, it need to allow the player as much freedom as possible.
- A soloer in an instanced dungeon dont remove anyone any option. The more soloers you have, the more options you open to every players, including the soloers themselves. Maybe a flag like: Not in a grouping mood could be a nice option to save peoples building groups time.
- A chronic soloer tend to be lonely and prone to talking and answering peoples in need. A chronic grouper is anything but lonely, they tend to ignore random questions from strangers. As strange as it sound, soloers, on the advice level, are more likely to help then anyone else, they are lonely and somewhat bored and in a limited social opening.
- Soloer, been alone, tend to be easy to argue with and talk him into a compromise when a conflict arise. Groupers, you take the worst of the group member and you get him 50% worser and this is the answer you get, folks are pretty rude at fighting for what belong to them when they are in numbers and unlikely to find an agreement with others. When I play solo and meet soloers, it rarely end with open defiant KS. When 2 groups clash, it is awfull.
- A MMORPG have little control over the community, they can only provide a nice game to improve the mood of the players.
- Enforcing anything reduce it appeal.
- Big guilds that focus on raiding and grouping a lot are usually the harsher community, they often have pretty rude comments against family guilds, saying they are not there for the lames and they dont care if you dont have their guildtag. I never see that much hatred so systematically spread among soloers, yes a soloer or 2 can be nasty, but it is usually rare, never widespread, and they usually are twinks or waiting for a raid.
- When I start twinks and ask questions, advice, help, raiders are those that help the least. Groupers come in the middle, while soloers are the more prone to answers my request providing nobody know I was behind the twink. Raiders where even more likely to mislead me or be rude(STFU noob) then to actually be helpfull.
- CoH player community outshine EQ, EQ2 and WoW community...CoH have the highest % of soloers in it...yet, to enjoy CoH, you dont need to mixt with them, you can ignore them unless they ask you stuff and odds are, you will be happy to help. Everytime I need 3 persons to come help me to click my bombs inside CoH and waste 10 minutes of their time for no reward, I always got tons of answers and help...I also did help a lot of peoples with that or an Archvillain they where unable to kill, then I resume my soloing, there was nothing for me into helping them, I did, many soloers did the same. If CoH didnt build such superficial obstacles, that positive energy would have been spent in others ways to help strangers, a little, but now, we already help them some, so we have less desired to...enforcing dont work.
Without the others players, the MMORPGs dont stand the road against Baldur's Gate even if I finish it so often it would make you feel all weird. Group OPTION is nice, OBLIGATION kill sowly the game, and remove the nicest players from the games.
But others players dont equal community, and the company have no impact on it.
What you propose me to do would be like saying: ''Distilled water is a must, dont drink any liquid for 3 days to prove me wrong'' We both know I would be dead in 3 days if I dont drink any liquid.
If solo is nice inside the MMORPG, you gain soloers in instanced zones that can be talked to, asked stuff, offer to group, the fact they accept or not those groups is irrelevant, they are there, and if they are free to join or ignore an offer, this is a lot better then not having them at all.
Grouping need it motivation, but it is not inside solo uberness or enforcing soloers to group that you will find this motivation. Unique items that are useless while soloing but godlike when grouping is a possible solution, and myself would try to hoard both. There are many others ways to reward grouping, dont do it at the expense of soloers. Someone should want to group for grouping reasons, nothing else. Same with any aspect of the game.
Solo is to a MMORPG what capitalism is to Democracy.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren