And what world did you come from? it was a PVP game from the start. Look at how the areas are setup. You have contested lands all over the place. On a non pvp server you had the option of not being ganked by people in those areas unless you turned on your flag. You're embarrassing yourself, now. No one would call WoW at launch a PvP game. Oddly enough, even the worst classes in any game can make maximum level given enough time. Did you know that EQ1 when it first came out had races that advanced MUCH slower than other races? Was THAT put on the box when it was sold. No, It wasn't. I don't even know why you are making this point, as it would not excuse such behaviour from other companies in any case. Are you honestly saying false advertising from SOE excuses the same from Cryptic? Why is it that 99% of the game is either solo, 5 man or 10 man groups when the end game at the time was nothing but 25-100 man raids? How is that NOT completely different? Doing 25 or 40-man raids is not "completely difeerent" from doing 5 or 10-man dungeons.
Oh look, as a captain you also have three different sub roles mixed in with it. You also have different ships for different situations. Not unlike any class that has different armor sets for different roles they will be playing in a group. A druid in WoW can spec for three different roles, with at least as many different armour sets. It's still one class with 8 others to play.
The stores that offer game changing advantages are free to play games that require that money to keep them going. You didn't make that distinction previously. Trust me, I am pretty sure I have a better understanding of how this system works than you do. Given your performance on the other issues, I wouldn't be all that sure. Take EQ1 for example. They put an in game store into their game after 9 years. The stuff you buy in there is nothing but fluff. Oh, you can make your level 1 weapons LOOK like a level 80 weapon but it will still have the stats of a level 1 weapon. Whoopie! Yeah thats game changing right there! Okay. Let's look at Cryptic themselves - they have added a respec to the Champions Online cash shop. $12.50 a shot. Is there any reason they won't do the same in STO?
Back to the same old tired and over used and completely wrong arguement. In free to play games, yes, SOME of them do offer things that will most definitely give you an advantage over others. Guess what, the game is freaking free and you complain that someone paying is getting an unfair advantage. Quit being a freaking leech and help support those game companies and you to could have some of those game altering advantages.
Nice rant, there. Admit it, you're in the business, aren't you?
However, Please show me where monthly subscription games that have added games stores, that sell items that give these rich people so big of an advantage?
I already have - CO's buyable respecs.
Oddly enough, these folks usually provide the same items free in game but it usually requires lots of work to get it. most items in these stores are simply cosmetic in nature. Even if they were to start putting items in the stores that gave people advantages, then if you want to keep up with the jones's, then fork out that extra dough. If not, then leave and quit whinning about it.
Another rant. You're not even denying it anymore.
This is part of the point I have made over and over again for PVP. Either make a game full pvp or none at all. If it doesn't have pvp, than an in game store that sells advantages means absolutely nothing at all to you because it doesn't change your game play at all. Wow, that guy over there is hitting for 30 more damage because he bought that cool axe off the store. Does that mean your not going to continue playing? No, It means absolutely nothing to you that some joe bought a cool axe and does more damage than you in PVE!
Even this is wrong. If I have a weapon better than yours and we are equal in other ways, then I will have a better chance of being slected for groups.
Feel to continues posting, but I'm done discussing this with you.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I totally understand where you're coming from, and the points you make are valid ones. However, I would like to point out that they are more things of personal opinion. Player crews is something that while some people think is necessary, others think would be a bad idea. I don't think we can really go down the road of how important crew interaction was in the series, because character interaction is by necessity one of the main points of a TV show, and endemic to the medium. You can't have a tv show without character interation. When you change the medium, you change the necessity of the importance of that aspect. Whether it'll end up being good or bad for the game, I would say only time can tell. I think companies (who are using the IP to gain sales) have a responsibility to be faithful to that IP. Otherwise, it's just bait and switch. Players who buy the game without researching it, are going to expect to be able to play characters other than the captain. Honestly now - a Star Trek RPG where you can't play anyone but the captain? As I have said before - there are going to be a lot of angry threads about this issue after release. Not to mention the Klingon fans. As far as the p2p+cash shop point, I think that's just personal preference. Other games do it (WoW is p2p but you can also buy pets, or buy ingame times from the trading card game, and so forth)
I'm not playing favourites, BTW - I have sworn off Blizzard now because of that cash shop and their other charges for various account services.
It is about greed, and I refuse to support it.
I find it funny in that some folks just casually look over the point that a cash shop has to have something that is desirable in order for it to make money. Else, what's the point in having it? And if said cash shop doesn't have items that people want then the developers will start adding things that they do want.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
the absolute BEST part of the whole article and they sum it up quite nicely.
Getting back to the 2,000 replies, this sort of forum overreaction embodies what a mockery beta has become. Every gasbag thinks he or she has the complete picture of the game by virtue of focus-testing a small part of the game a few hours each week, then reacts with outrage when the overall reality doesn't fit the picture in their head. What's the endgame? Developers will be increasingly unwilling to talk to anyone about their games in the future for fear of a sales snarling, pre-launch insurrection, and absolutely everything they say will pass through the PR filter. That means less information of any kind, even honest-to-goodness info, in favor of a sliced-and-diced, pre-packaged glib perception of the game prior to launch. If that's what you all want, keep flaming. Keep interpreting dev comments on in-development games as gospel truth, instead of a snapshot of their current thinking. They're just after your pre-order money and box costs, right? Nevermind that they only make money with ongoing monthly subscriptions, threaten to cancel your pre-orders before you have the whole story
. In other words, be the asshats the Internet allows you to be, and see if devs don't give you less of a say in how these games turn out.
Except that if the game ACTUALLY is a good game, then they don't have to worry about it. Both WoW and LOTRO had pretty extensive open betas, so I guess that shoots this author's hypothesis in the ass.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
I find it quite laughable how some people can be so focused on saying the game's being rushed, when they don't know the extent of the content in the game. We like technology that can do things faster, this is a fact. Eventually someone is bound to create a system from the ground up that can be used to develop an MMO in half the time, perhaps Cryptic is that someone. Not only that, but this is, in fact, a boon to the genre. The whole idea of an MMO is that it's a constantly evolving product. A faster iteration process simply improves this.
And that's why they've cut content? Please.
You can ASSUME Cryptic has magically found a way to make a great randomizer in less time than it takes to make basic content for an MMO, but they've made plenty of randomizers before and none have been impressive. I've played plenty of games with random content, and it is not easy to make that content something that has lasting value.
Far more likely is that STO which has a very similar dev time to CO, with similar positive initial views as CO, is going to turn out very similarly to CO. What makes this even more likely is the fact that CO was ALSO just made by Cryptic. What is also a fact is that no good MMO was EVER made in two years. Frankly, I am not familiar with one that was released in good condition after 3 years. All the successes I am aware of took 4 or 5.
Wasn't DAoC made in 2 years?
I looked this up. It's a very interesting case study. Indeed it was made in two years. However, DAoC already had an engine, tons of graphics, and a combat system (lifted from a P&P RPG it seems). They acknowledge using an existing engine cuts down a year, but then he adds in the other stuff they also had which cuts down more time. (I followed the reference from Wikipedia and read an article where a dev talks about the game's creation). STO has an engine, but it didn't have any graphics work done or any combat system. Now, randomizing things might save graphics time (certainly in the long run, but it isn't trivial to design the program that does it). But there is still the fact STO has two combat systems that are going to eat up a lot of time. You'd expect then, that STO would be riddled with more problems compared to DAoC, and when you compare the two games (1.5 STO factions vs. 3 DAoC ones), you indeed see that STO is coming up short. The ground combat in particular for STO is posing problems (and the space combat has the lack of rotation and planar shield problem which discourages 3D movement).
So yeah, if there is enough pre-existing material, then a game could be made in 2 years. That requires more than just an engine though, but models, items, and apparently most of a combat system too. In that context, it is very understandable how a game could be made in so short a time. STO doesn't have all this factors enabling a shorter dev time though; they just have one.
I find it funny in that some folks just casually look over the point that a cash shop has to have something that is desirable in order for it to make money. Else, what's the point in having it? And if said cash shop doesn't have items that people want then the developers will start adding things that they do want.
Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
I can understand not liking the concept of a cash store, even not playing a game because of it (though I find that far fetched), but you can't just assume it's a forced revenue model.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by Blurr Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. That's not MY objection. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
Define "need' in this context. I'd say people need respecs in a game like Champions Online.
Any kind of advantage for money is inherently unfair. Some are worse than others, sure.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by Blurr Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. That's not MY objection. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
Define "need' in this context. I'd say people need respecs in a game like Champions Online.
Any kind of advantage for money is inherently unfair. Some are worse than others, sure.
Blurr: But you can pay with in-game money for respecs, so everyone can still get it!
Drachasor: Yeah, but they are so expensive that you save time if you roll up a new character rather than spend endless hours farming mats (and yes, people have done the math on this).
You're embarrassing yourself, now. No one would call WoW at launch a PvP game. And how am I embarrassing my self? A game that is setup from the start to have areas that are in contention and that you become pvp enabled the second you step through them is a game that was designed to have pvp right from the start. Do you honestly consider the game now as it is, a pvp game? The game prior to them putting in those stupid battle grounds was true pvp. The new version is nothing more than going in and farming reputation points.
I don't even know why you are making this point, as it would not excuse such behaviour from other companies in any case. Are you honestly saying false advertising from SOE excuses the same from Cryptic? No I am not saying that at all. I am saying, companies never reveal everything that is in the game right on the box.
Doing 25 or 40-man raids is not "completely difeerent" from doing 5 or 10-man dungeons. Yes it most certainly is. The content is completely different. tactics are different, The mentality of those doing these raids are different. Why is there DKP rules setup outside of the game for raids when there are none for the rest of the game? It is a completely new way of adventuring when you get to 60 for the average person and there is absolutely no denying that.
A druid in WoW can spec for three different roles, with at least as many different armour sets. It's still one class with 8 others to play.
So your gripe is that cryptic didnt put in enough classes for you to play. boohoo. There are other games that don't give you a wide variety to choose from either. You either play them or you don't, its a simple choice.
You didn't make that distinction previously. Oh, so that changes anything? The end result is still the same. Given your performance on the other issues, I wouldn't be all that sure. So far everything I have stated has been correct, so yes I would be sure.
Okay. Let's look at Cryptic themselves - they have added a respec to the Champions Online cash shop. $12.50 a shot. Is there any reason they won't do the same in STO? So, you are entitled to a respec then? When did this happen? I find the idea of a respec in a game to be stupid in my opinion. If you make wrong choices, you should have to live with those choices or start over a different character. This is the exact reason that games are being dummed down to the point of stupidity.
Nice rant, there. Admit it, you're in the business, aren't you?
I work for an energy company as a scripter, so no, I am not in the business. I just happen to understand companies wanting to make money off of their work. Do I like these stores being added? No, I don't, but I am not going to stop playing a game I like simply because the company wanted to make extra money. Now, if they decided to raise their monthly fee to say 25 bucks a month, then I might decide if I like the game well enough to continue playing it.
I already have - CO's buyable respecs.
yep, and they also have free respecs in the game that you can achieve. so all you proved is the company wanted to make a little extra money. Greedy? Perhaps, but it is their game after all and you certainly don't have to play it if you dont want to.
Another rant. You're not even denying it anymore.
Are you talking about yourself here? Ranting is all you been doing. I been disproving your rants and yet you want to try and reverse that and say I am ranting? Yeah, good try.
Even this is wrong. If I have a weapon better than yours and we are equal in other ways, then I will have a better chance of being slected for groups.
Feel to continues posting, but I'm done discussing this with you.
You are absolutely right. You might not get picked for that uber group. But there is not only one group forming at a time. EQ1 had this problem with the mana stone when they took it out of the game and left the ones that dropped already to stay in it. People refused to let clerics into their uber groups if they didnt have a mana stone. However, we are talking about something that was extremely powerful and was removed from the game because of it. Thus why you don't really see things like that in stores that are pay to play. They try to keep things as balanced as possible where free to play games don't feel that they need to do that. But again, in PVE things are much different. Only uber groups care if you are doing 21.2dps per second or 20.1 dps per second. The general population doesn't give a shit about that and thankfully you will still be able to find a group.
As for you being done. yes, you should be. The only thing you have proven in your posts is that you are burnt out on mmo's and with the proof provided here, games in general since even single player games are going the way of DLC.
Originally posted by Drachasor Blurr: But you can pay with in-game money for respecs, so everyone can still get it!
Drachasor: Yeah, but they are so expensive that you save time if you roll up a new character rather than spend endless hours farming mats (and yes, people have done the math on this). There, I saved us all some time.
One defense of the high cost of those respecs (almost a month's sub fee) that always amuses me is that it is a device to limit how often they are used. Beyond ridiculous, as Cryptic could just impose a limit of how often they could be bought.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by Drachasor Blurr: But you can pay with in-game money for respecs, so everyone can still get it!
Drachasor: Yeah, but they are so expensive that you save time if you roll up a new character rather than spend endless hours farming mats (and yes, people have done the math on this). There, I saved us all some time.
One defense of the high cost of those respecs (almost a month's sub fee) that always amuses me is that it is a device to limit how often they are used. Beyond ridiculous, as Cryptic could just impose a limit of how often they could be bought.
No, what is ridiculous is that people want to respec every time someone comes out with a new min-max build. They want to respec their character for every different situation they are going to come up against. The only valid respecs in my opinion is when a company drastically changes powers. And from what I have seen of most, they usually give a free respec for when that occurs.
Why shouldn't there be consequences for your choices as you level? Even with that in mind, cryptic has always had respecs in there for people who did screw up their build. But instead of respecs being a way to correct YOU screwing up your own build, people are trying to use it as a way to min max or to change their character completely for some big nasty fight. in other words, they are using respecs in a way that it wasn't designed to be used in the first place. So just keep complaining about this trivial stuff. pretty soon these game companies are going to dumb down the games so much that a 2 year old will be able to play it and make max level in a week.
Originally posted by Drachasor Blurr: But you can pay with in-game money for respecs, so everyone can still get it!
Drachasor: Yeah, but they are so expensive that you save time if you roll up a new character rather than spend endless hours farming mats (and yes, people have done the math on this). There, I saved us all some time.
One defense of the high cost of those respecs (almost a month's sub fee) that always amuses me is that it is a device to limit how often they are used. Beyond ridiculous, as Cryptic could just impose a limit of how often they could be bought.
No, what is ridiculous is that people want to respec every time someone comes out with a new min-max build. They want to respec their character for every different situation they are going to come up against. The only valid respecs in my opinion is when a company drastically changes powers. And from what I have seen of most, they usually give a free respec for when that occurs.
Why shouldn't there be consequences for your choices as you level? Even with that in mind, cryptic has always had respecs in there for people who did screw up their build. But instead of respecs being a way to correct YOU screwing up your own build, people are trying to use it as a way to min max or to change their character completely for some big nasty fight. in other words, they are using respecs in a way that it wasn't designed to be used in the first place. So just keep complaining about this trivial stuff. pretty soon these game companies are going to dumb down the games so much that a 2 year old will be able to play it and make max level in a week.
Limiting how often they can do done takes care of that, does it not?
And frankly, I think it is rather silly to have such sweeping imbalances in a superhero combat system. You play a game like that for thematic elements, not to be forced to carefully test and go over every power you make so that you aren't screwing yourself over. It is quite possible to make a guy that can't solo the solo content, or to make one so powerful that it can't handle most group content. Such imbalances are no trifling matter, and only serve to encourage min-maxing because the game makes it so incredibly rewarding to min-max.
Originally posted by Blurr Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. That's not MY objection. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
Define "need' in this context. I'd say people need respecs in a game like Champions Online.
Any kind of advantage for money is inherently unfair. Some are worse than others, sure.
Blurr: But you can pay with in-game money for respecs, so everyone can still get it!
Drachasor: Yeah, but they are so expensive that you save time if you roll up a new character rather than spend endless hours farming mats (and yes, people have done the math on this).
There, I saved us all some time.
Except there's more flawed logic here. If it were trivial to get ingame, nobody would buy it. People don't need a respec if they use the many many many tools provided to test, plan, and experiment with your powers beforehand. This is where you claim that a nerf for your uber power makes you have to respec, but you forget that if they make any signifigant changes you get a free respec anyways. I've played CO since launch and I only ever needed 1 respec because I wanted to try the new power set (given out for free of course). Since then my character has recieved probably 5 full free respecs based on patches, even though it only saves one. Perhaps anyone so agonized over this because they need a respec so badly simply needs to put a little thought into their character.
It's really not the topic of this thread, but as it stands, a respec is debatable on being a "need" at best, considering the rate at which they hand out free ones anyways. Not to mention that it's available ingame on a sliding scale (I'd be surprised to hear Drachasor has played the game since the last time they adjusted the respec cost) based on how far back you want to go. I suppose some people wouldn't be happy unless you could just respec for free whenever you want for no reason. Do you really want MMOs these days so dumbed down that your choices of character specialization have no meaning?
Anyways, as far as the Klingon controversy, the cash store has very little to do with it. I can understand if you object to the idea of a cash store, but you simply can't tout it as an evil based on what you think is going to be in it, because we simply don't know what it will contain. For the same reason, the article points out that having a hissy fit over what rumours you hear out of beta simply can't be taken to exemplify the finished product because it simply hasn't launched yet.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by Blurr Except there's more flawed logic here. If it were trivial to get ingame, nobody would buy it.
You want to talk about flawed logic, this right here is it. You are assuming they should have a cash shop and that anything they put in it is fine. Your little "reasoning" here applies for ANYTHING IN THE WORLD they decide to put up in a cash shop....
Weapon that makes you wipe out ships with one click? If it were trivial to get ingame, nobody would buy it.
Our argument is that something like respecs shouldn't, at the very least, be charged for in a game with notoriously bad balance (and really, not ever, I'd say). If they want to limit how often they are done, then they should just put a time limit on it. Rather than respond to the idea that this shouldn't be done, you assume that it is ok be done and go from there. Lots of various names for this, I personally like "assuming the antecedent."
Weapon that makes you wipe out ships with one click? If it were trivial to get ingame, nobody would buy it. Ah, the signs of a weak argument grasping at straws.
Since you seem SO intent on derailing this thread and nobody seems to have a problem with it, lets put this issue to bed.
Firstly, since you seem so obsessed with hating Cryptic, I'm willing to bet that you don't play Champions, so you probably don't know how much it actually costs to respec since the last time they adjusted the ingame cost. Also you probably don't know that it's a sliding scale based on how far back you want to respec. If you just picked a power, and you didn't bother to check out what the powers do beforehand, AND you didn't try it out in the space they specifically gave you to try out powers, it's still almost trivial to go back a few choices. Not to mention the fact that they give us free respecs every time they change some of your powers. The game's only been out ~4 months and I've already gotten 3-5 respecs for free. You can only save one so many of those were wasted. I used only one and only then because they put out an entire new powerset I wanted to try out. I just checked my level 20 character, who has less gold than the average person of that level, and I can still easily respec 1/3 to 1/2 of my powers.
It's pretty simple, but I guess if you have an agenda against cryptic, it'd be easy to look the other way. They don't want you respeccing every time a new FOTM build comes out. They don't want you making massive changes to your character without some sort of cost (ingame or otherwise) to you. They give you places specifically to try out your new powers beforehand for free. The cost only becomes prohibitive when you want to go so far back that you should have realized you didn't like the power a long time ago (and therefore respecced it for a smaller cost). They give you a free respec any time they make signifigant changes to any powersets you have. There is no reason you NEED to have a full respec unless you're in a situation where they will already give you one. A full respec also does NOT give you a gameplay advantage over anyone else. All you are doing is going back over choices already made. It doesn't make you level faster or have any abilities everyone else couldn't already have. If you'd like to try to explain how one person could buy a respec in the C-store and thus have a gameplay advantage over someone who didn't, please be my guest.
So far, they have put nothing in the C-store that gives you a gameplay advantage. A respec doesn't offer you any bonus over anyone else in the game. Anyone with a brain and a little patience can avoid having to respec ever, and will likely get more free respecs than they need anyways.
Also, putting just a time limit on respecs is bad game design. It makes the respec trivial often enough that when your timer is up you can just switch to the FOTM if you want. In addition, people need the ability to respec when they choose, ie if someone wants to collect enough gold to respec (to play with a friend, say) even though he just did one two days ago, he should be able to do that. If he wants to pay the 12.50 to do it too, he should be allowed to do that.
Arguing that CO shouldn't have respecs in their cash store reminds me of the phrase "No use crying over spilled milk". It's already been done, complaining isn't going to change that. You don't have to like it, but it's not like they're magically going to change their mind on it.
In the end, this argument has very little to do with STO, despite the fact that some people want to use it to bash Cryptic/STO. As of yet, we have no evidence of what, will be in the C-store for STO. Although I suppose that doesn't matter since it seems you're quite happy to bash the game without actually experiencing it yourself. I find it funny how you can claim STO is the end of the world when you have to admit you don't know what you're talking about.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
I find it funny in that some folks just casually look over the point that a cash shop has to have something that is desirable in order for it to make money. Else, what's the point in having it? And if said cash shop doesn't have items that people want then the developers will start adding things that they do want.
Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
I can understand not liking the concept of a cash store, even not playing a game because of it (though I find that far fetched), but you can't just assume it's a forced revenue model.
I agree that want and need are two different things, both of which neither you nor I can label for a third person. One person's want is another's need due to varying reasons (stats, roleplaying, etc.). The danger comes about when we start assuming that we know which is which for each individual and also in labeling one "lesser" than another.
I don't like the idea of cash stores sum total. I would be royally pissed if, while paying a monthly fee, I found in the cash store a decorative item that went along with my character's backstory 100%. Nothing else in the game that's a perfect fit like this item. Yep, I'd be a tad bit upset.
I'm still on the fence about buying this title. I'm not happy about Klingons (though it isn't a deal breaker as Cryptic has said they will add episodic content after launch if that's what people want and, well, judging from multiple forums they do) and I do not like cash shops. We'll see, though.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I find it funny in that some folks just casually look over the point that a cash shop has to have something that is desirable in order for it to make money. Else, what's the point in having it? And if said cash shop doesn't have items that people want then the developers will start adding things that they do want.
Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
I can understand not liking the concept of a cash store, even not playing a game because of it (though I find that far fetched), but you can't just assume it's a forced revenue model.
I agree that want and need are two different things, both of which neither you nor I can label for a third person. One person's want is another's need due to varying reasons (stats, roleplaying, etc.). The danger comes about when we start assuming that we know which is which for each individual and also in labeling one "lesser" than another.
I don't like the idea of cash stores sum total. I would be royally pissed if, while paying a monthly fee, I found in the cash store a decorative item that went along with my character's backstory 100%. Nothing else in the game that's a perfect fit like this item. Yep, I'd be a tad bit upset.
I'm still on the fence about buying this title. I'm not happy about Klingons (though it isn't a deal breaker as Cryptic has said they will add episodic content after launch if that's what people want and, well, judging from multiple forums they do) and I do not like cash shops. We'll see, though.
Yeah, the cash shop is my only point of hesitation on pre-ordering STO. Read above that Cryptic puts gameplay items (paid respecs) in their shops as well. That's a bummer. In my opinion, a game stops being a game when cash shops are involved. It becomes a hobby or something. It's one thing to play for fun, and another to invest in a hobby. Definately need to find out how the shop will be implemented in STO.
I think it's absolutely moronic. Just because the Klingons have a warrior society doesn't automatically translate to a PvP gameplay marriage. Klingons have plenty of diplomats. They have plenty of folks flying transports. They have plenty of people making buildings and other infrastructure. Ships, weapons, raising animals for food, making bloodwine. No, there is nothing attached to "being Klingon" that translates to PvP only or PvP predominantly. The Klingons have a thriving culture from which a ton of episodic content can be made. Now, I understand the time constraints that Cryptic is under and why they are, in my view, short changing the Klingon faction. I don't agree, but I understand. That said, for some to try to sit there and justify that because the Klingons have a warrior society it makes sense for them to be PvP heavy...ludicrous. Completely, utterly, ludicrous.
If Cryptic had bothered to make a MMO with multiple factions, involved crafting & resource gathering and open/self-declared PvP most people would not be bitching about this game.
This game (in it's current state) is going to go down in MMO history as one of the biggest tanks ever.
the absolute BEST part of the whole article and they sum it up quite nicely.
Getting back to the 2,000 replies, this sort of forum overreaction embodies what a mockery beta has become. Every gasbag thinks he or she has the complete picture of the game by virtue of focus-testing a small part of the game a few hours each week, then reacts with outrage when the overall reality doesn't fit the picture in their head. What's the endgame? Developers will be increasingly unwilling to talk to anyone about their games in the future for fear of a sales snarling, pre-launch insurrection, and absolutely everything they say will pass through the PR filter. That means less information of any kind, even honest-to-goodness info, in favor of a sliced-and-diced, pre-packaged glib perception of the game prior to launch. If that's what you all want, keep flaming. Keep interpreting dev comments on in-development games as gospel truth, instead of a snapshot of their current thinking. They're just after your pre-order money and box costs, right? Nevermind that they only make money with ongoing monthly subscriptions, threaten to cancel your pre-orders before you have the whole story
. In other words, be the asshats the Internet allows you to be, and see if devs don't give you less of a say in how these games turn out.
So, because devs might get a negative reaction to what they say about a game, they shouldn't talk about a game anymore? How about we do what film critics do: in the absence of proper information about a game we assume it will suck.
If Cryptic had bothered to make a MMO with multiple factions, involved crafting & resource gathering and open/self-declared PvP most people would not be bitching about this game. This game (in it's current state) is going to go down in MMO history as one of the biggest tanks ever. Cryptic has become the new SOE....
Hmmmm...
Having been on the front lines of the the super fabulous Sho Kusugi ninja b***hslap to your exisiting customer base that was the NGE I'd have to disagree that Cryptic hasn't gotten that far down the road of repugnant.
SOE is still firmly entrenched in the #1 position of the Captain "F" You club founded by Judas (accepting new members for just 30 pieces of silver).
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
If Cryptic had bothered to make a MMO with multiple factions, involved crafting & resource gathering and open/self-declared PvP most people would not be bitching about this game. This game (in it's current state) is going to go down in MMO history as one of the biggest tanks ever. Cryptic has become the new SOE....
Hmmmm...
Having been on the front lines of the the super fabulous Sho Kusugi ninja b***hslap to your exisiting customer base that was the NGE I'd have to disagree that Cryptic hasn't gotten that far down the road of repugnant.
SOE is still firmly entrenched in the #1 position of the Captain "F" You club founded by Judas (accepting new members for just 30 pieces of silver).
I agree 100%. Cryptic and SOE are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. Besides, there are 2 factions in release of the game so I dont know how Kramerica can say there is only 1. I sit back and look at this and think, hey, I know at some point I want to play klingon but I never really thought about how they would be implemented. People will complain about everything, But I thought it was a pretty good idea making them PVP, considering its never been tried before, and give them kudos for at least trying something different. All we ever hear is that every mmo is the same and we want innovation yet when a company does try something new, some people freak out about it. So its a no win situation for any MMO developer. It doesn't matter what they do, if its innovative or not, people will just get mad because if it is innovative, it sucks and if nots innovative, cryptic sucks for not trying. Yeah, this game is going to tank HUGE. And by tank, I mean its going to take all those beatings that people want to throw at it then its going to fire its torpedoes and blow em away. lol
. In other words, be the asshats the Internet allows you to be, and see if devs don't give you less of a say in how these games turn out.
How does one expect a subscriber to react when those under the same ublrella as the mockery of a mmorpg that champions online is, and just reskins that same grind-fest pve bore-fest and adds a ship to call it star trek online?
Aside from Darkfall as it ihas been able to limp along to its current state, and Aion with their broad bredth and depth of combined and integrated pvevp content, 2009 was a losing year in terms of mmorpg entertainment value, and the asshats are probably the developers for being so damn out of touch with a market that asking for something more.
. In other words, be the asshats the Internet allows you to be, and see if devs don't give you less of a say in how these games turn out.
How does one expect a subscriber to react when those under the same ublrella as the mockery of a mmorpg that champions online is, and just reskins that same grind-fest pve bore-fest and adds a ship to call it star trek online?
Aside from Darkfall as it ihas been able to limp along to its current state, and Aion with their broad bredth and depth of combined and integrated pvevp content, 2009 was a losing year in terms of mmorpg entertainment value, and the asshats are probably the developers for being so damn out of touch with a market that asking for something more.
But look what happens when someone gives them more. Darkfall is limping by and it was touted as the best pvp adventure game ever. Yet pvp'rs are quitting it by the droves. Look at Conan. A new battle system, Lets give them what they want, something different. We see how they are going along. The problem is people don't know what they want. All they know is they are bored and burnt out. And who are you to say CO is bad? You may not like it, but there are others that do. Then you claim that STO is the exact same game as CO yet, forgive me if I am wrong, STO isn't out yet. And you certainly can't tell me that watching the videos that have come out or the pictures that are out there makes it look anything like CO because it doesn't. What was wrong with Aion? It was a perfectly fine game. Great graphics, combat system was fun, flight was unique, and it is one of the only PVP games out there that actually has a purpose for pvp. However, it was a grindfest, especially when you got around 30 and up. But so it every single MMO out there. It is what they are. So why don't you just classify all MMO's out there the same and forget about them and go to a different genre, it really sounds like your just burnt out.
Sounds like the guy at tentonhammer is saying shut up and take it. I would recommend seeing for yourself come open beta then going to tentonhammer and tell him what you think of him.
Comments
Back to the same old tired and over used and completely wrong arguement. In free to play games, yes, SOME of them do offer things that will most definitely give you an advantage over others. Guess what, the game is freaking free and you complain that someone paying is getting an unfair advantage. Quit being a freaking leech and help support those game companies and you to could have some of those game altering advantages.
Nice rant, there. Admit it, you're in the business, aren't you?
However, Please show me where monthly subscription games that have added games stores, that sell items that give these rich people so big of an advantage?
I already have - CO's buyable respecs.
Oddly enough, these folks usually provide the same items free in game but it usually requires lots of work to get it. most items in these stores are simply cosmetic in nature. Even if they were to start putting items in the stores that gave people advantages, then if you want to keep up with the jones's, then fork out that extra dough. If not, then leave and quit whinning about it.
Another rant. You're not even denying it anymore.
This is part of the point I have made over and over again for PVP. Either make a game full pvp or none at all. If it doesn't have pvp, than an in game store that sells advantages means absolutely nothing at all to you because it doesn't change your game play at all. Wow, that guy over there is hitting for 30 more damage because he bought that cool axe off the store. Does that mean your not going to continue playing? No, It means absolutely nothing to you that some joe bought a cool axe and does more damage than you in PVE!
Even this is wrong. If I have a weapon better than yours and we are equal in other ways, then I will have a better chance of being slected for groups.
Feel to continues posting, but I'm done discussing this with you.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I'm not playing favourites, BTW - I have sworn off Blizzard now because of that cash shop and their other charges for various account services.
It is about greed, and I refuse to support it.
I find it funny in that some folks just casually look over the point that a cash shop has to have something that is desirable in order for it to make money. Else, what's the point in having it? And if said cash shop doesn't have items that people want then the developers will start adding things that they do want.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Except that if the game ACTUALLY is a good game, then they don't have to worry about it. Both WoW and LOTRO had pretty extensive open betas, so I guess that shoots this author's hypothesis in the ass.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
And that's why they've cut content? Please.
You can ASSUME Cryptic has magically found a way to make a great randomizer in less time than it takes to make basic content for an MMO, but they've made plenty of randomizers before and none have been impressive. I've played plenty of games with random content, and it is not easy to make that content something that has lasting value.
Far more likely is that STO which has a very similar dev time to CO, with similar positive initial views as CO, is going to turn out very similarly to CO. What makes this even more likely is the fact that CO was ALSO just made by Cryptic. What is also a fact is that no good MMO was EVER made in two years. Frankly, I am not familiar with one that was released in good condition after 3 years. All the successes I am aware of took 4 or 5.
Wasn't DAoC made in 2 years?
I looked this up. It's a very interesting case study. Indeed it was made in two years. However, DAoC already had an engine, tons of graphics, and a combat system (lifted from a P&P RPG it seems). They acknowledge using an existing engine cuts down a year, but then he adds in the other stuff they also had which cuts down more time. (I followed the reference from Wikipedia and read an article where a dev talks about the game's creation). STO has an engine, but it didn't have any graphics work done or any combat system. Now, randomizing things might save graphics time (certainly in the long run, but it isn't trivial to design the program that does it). But there is still the fact STO has two combat systems that are going to eat up a lot of time. You'd expect then, that STO would be riddled with more problems compared to DAoC, and when you compare the two games (1.5 STO factions vs. 3 DAoC ones), you indeed see that STO is coming up short. The ground combat in particular for STO is posing problems (and the space combat has the lack of rotation and planar shield problem which discourages 3D movement).
So yeah, if there is enough pre-existing material, then a game could be made in 2 years. That requires more than just an engine though, but models, items, and apparently most of a combat system too. In that context, it is very understandable how a game could be made in so short a time. STO doesn't have all this factors enabling a shorter dev time though; they just have one.
Edit: Here's a link to the article about it.
Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
I can understand not liking the concept of a cash store, even not playing a game because of it (though I find that far fetched), but you can't just assume it's a forced revenue model.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
That doesn't mean you should toss money at it without much of an idea about what it is though.
Any kind of advantage for money is inherently unfair. Some are worse than others, sure.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Any kind of advantage for money is inherently unfair. Some are worse than others, sure.
Blurr: But you can pay with in-game money for respecs, so everyone can still get it!
Drachasor: Yeah, but they are so expensive that you save time if you roll up a new character rather than spend endless hours farming mats (and yes, people have done the math on this).
There, I saved us all some time.
Nice rant, there. Admit it, you're in the business, aren't you?
I work for an energy company as a scripter, so no, I am not in the business. I just happen to understand companies wanting to make money off of their work. Do I like these stores being added? No, I don't, but I am not going to stop playing a game I like simply because the company wanted to make extra money. Now, if they decided to raise their monthly fee to say 25 bucks a month, then I might decide if I like the game well enough to continue playing it.
I already have - CO's buyable respecs.
yep, and they also have free respecs in the game that you can achieve. so all you proved is the company wanted to make a little extra money. Greedy? Perhaps, but it is their game after all and you certainly don't have to play it if you dont want to.
Another rant. You're not even denying it anymore.
Are you talking about yourself here? Ranting is all you been doing. I been disproving your rants and yet you want to try and reverse that and say I am ranting? Yeah, good try.
Even this is wrong. If I have a weapon better than yours and we are equal in other ways, then I will have a better chance of being slected for groups.
Feel to continues posting, but I'm done discussing this with you.
You are absolutely right. You might not get picked for that uber group. But there is not only one group forming at a time. EQ1 had this problem with the mana stone when they took it out of the game and left the ones that dropped already to stay in it. People refused to let clerics into their uber groups if they didnt have a mana stone. However, we are talking about something that was extremely powerful and was removed from the game because of it. Thus why you don't really see things like that in stores that are pay to play. They try to keep things as balanced as possible where free to play games don't feel that they need to do that. But again, in PVE things are much different. Only uber groups care if you are doing 21.2dps per second or 20.1 dps per second. The general population doesn't give a shit about that and thankfully you will still be able to find a group.
As for you being done. yes, you should be. The only thing you have proven in your posts is that you are burnt out on mmo's and with the proof provided here, games in general since even single player games are going the way of DLC.
One defense of the high cost of those respecs (almost a month's sub fee) that always amuses me is that it is a device to limit how often they are used. Beyond ridiculous, as Cryptic could just impose a limit of how often they could be bought.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
One defense of the high cost of those respecs (almost a month's sub fee) that always amuses me is that it is a device to limit how often they are used. Beyond ridiculous, as Cryptic could just impose a limit of how often they could be bought.
No, what is ridiculous is that people want to respec every time someone comes out with a new min-max build. They want to respec their character for every different situation they are going to come up against. The only valid respecs in my opinion is when a company drastically changes powers. And from what I have seen of most, they usually give a free respec for when that occurs.
Why shouldn't there be consequences for your choices as you level? Even with that in mind, cryptic has always had respecs in there for people who did screw up their build. But instead of respecs being a way to correct YOU screwing up your own build, people are trying to use it as a way to min max or to change their character completely for some big nasty fight. in other words, they are using respecs in a way that it wasn't designed to be used in the first place. So just keep complaining about this trivial stuff. pretty soon these game companies are going to dumb down the games so much that a 2 year old will be able to play it and make max level in a week.
One defense of the high cost of those respecs (almost a month's sub fee) that always amuses me is that it is a device to limit how often they are used. Beyond ridiculous, as Cryptic could just impose a limit of how often they could be bought.
No, what is ridiculous is that people want to respec every time someone comes out with a new min-max build. They want to respec their character for every different situation they are going to come up against. The only valid respecs in my opinion is when a company drastically changes powers. And from what I have seen of most, they usually give a free respec for when that occurs.
Why shouldn't there be consequences for your choices as you level? Even with that in mind, cryptic has always had respecs in there for people who did screw up their build. But instead of respecs being a way to correct YOU screwing up your own build, people are trying to use it as a way to min max or to change their character completely for some big nasty fight. in other words, they are using respecs in a way that it wasn't designed to be used in the first place. So just keep complaining about this trivial stuff. pretty soon these game companies are going to dumb down the games so much that a 2 year old will be able to play it and make max level in a week.
Limiting how often they can do done takes care of that, does it not?
And frankly, I think it is rather silly to have such sweeping imbalances in a superhero combat system. You play a game like that for thematic elements, not to be forced to carefully test and go over every power you make so that you aren't screwing yourself over. It is quite possible to make a guy that can't solo the solo content, or to make one so powerful that it can't handle most group content. Such imbalances are no trifling matter, and only serve to encourage min-maxing because the game makes it so incredibly rewarding to min-max.
Any kind of advantage for money is inherently unfair. Some are worse than others, sure.
Blurr: But you can pay with in-game money for respecs, so everyone can still get it!
Drachasor: Yeah, but they are so expensive that you save time if you roll up a new character rather than spend endless hours farming mats (and yes, people have done the math on this).
There, I saved us all some time.
Except there's more flawed logic here. If it were trivial to get ingame, nobody would buy it. People don't need a respec if they use the many many many tools provided to test, plan, and experiment with your powers beforehand. This is where you claim that a nerf for your uber power makes you have to respec, but you forget that if they make any signifigant changes you get a free respec anyways. I've played CO since launch and I only ever needed 1 respec because I wanted to try the new power set (given out for free of course). Since then my character has recieved probably 5 full free respecs based on patches, even though it only saves one. Perhaps anyone so agonized over this because they need a respec so badly simply needs to put a little thought into their character.
It's really not the topic of this thread, but as it stands, a respec is debatable on being a "need" at best, considering the rate at which they hand out free ones anyways. Not to mention that it's available ingame on a sliding scale (I'd be surprised to hear Drachasor has played the game since the last time they adjusted the respec cost) based on how far back you want to go. I suppose some people wouldn't be happy unless you could just respec for free whenever you want for no reason. Do you really want MMOs these days so dumbed down that your choices of character specialization have no meaning?
Anyways, as far as the Klingon controversy, the cash store has very little to do with it. I can understand if you object to the idea of a cash store, but you simply can't tout it as an evil based on what you think is going to be in it, because we simply don't know what it will contain. For the same reason, the article points out that having a hissy fit over what rumours you hear out of beta simply can't be taken to exemplify the finished product because it simply hasn't launched yet.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
You want to talk about flawed logic, this right here is it. You are assuming they should have a cash shop and that anything they put in it is fine. Your little "reasoning" here applies for ANYTHING IN THE WORLD they decide to put up in a cash shop....
Weapon that makes you wipe out ships with one click? If it were trivial to get ingame, nobody would buy it.
Our argument is that something like respecs shouldn't, at the very least, be charged for in a game with notoriously bad balance (and really, not ever, I'd say). If they want to limit how often they are done, then they should just put a time limit on it. Rather than respond to the idea that this shouldn't be done, you assume that it is ok be done and go from there. Lots of various names for this, I personally like "assuming the antecedent."
Since you seem SO intent on derailing this thread and nobody seems to have a problem with it, lets put this issue to bed.
Firstly, since you seem so obsessed with hating Cryptic, I'm willing to bet that you don't play Champions, so you probably don't know how much it actually costs to respec since the last time they adjusted the ingame cost. Also you probably don't know that it's a sliding scale based on how far back you want to respec. If you just picked a power, and you didn't bother to check out what the powers do beforehand, AND you didn't try it out in the space they specifically gave you to try out powers, it's still almost trivial to go back a few choices. Not to mention the fact that they give us free respecs every time they change some of your powers. The game's only been out ~4 months and I've already gotten 3-5 respecs for free. You can only save one so many of those were wasted. I used only one and only then because they put out an entire new powerset I wanted to try out. I just checked my level 20 character, who has less gold than the average person of that level, and I can still easily respec 1/3 to 1/2 of my powers.
It's pretty simple, but I guess if you have an agenda against cryptic, it'd be easy to look the other way. They don't want you respeccing every time a new FOTM build comes out. They don't want you making massive changes to your character without some sort of cost (ingame or otherwise) to you. They give you places specifically to try out your new powers beforehand for free. The cost only becomes prohibitive when you want to go so far back that you should have realized you didn't like the power a long time ago (and therefore respecced it for a smaller cost). They give you a free respec any time they make signifigant changes to any powersets you have. There is no reason you NEED to have a full respec unless you're in a situation where they will already give you one. A full respec also does NOT give you a gameplay advantage over anyone else. All you are doing is going back over choices already made. It doesn't make you level faster or have any abilities everyone else couldn't already have. If you'd like to try to explain how one person could buy a respec in the C-store and thus have a gameplay advantage over someone who didn't, please be my guest.
So far, they have put nothing in the C-store that gives you a gameplay advantage. A respec doesn't offer you any bonus over anyone else in the game. Anyone with a brain and a little patience can avoid having to respec ever, and will likely get more free respecs than they need anyways.
Also, putting just a time limit on respecs is bad game design. It makes the respec trivial often enough that when your timer is up you can just switch to the FOTM if you want. In addition, people need the ability to respec when they choose, ie if someone wants to collect enough gold to respec (to play with a friend, say) even though he just did one two days ago, he should be able to do that. If he wants to pay the 12.50 to do it too, he should be allowed to do that.
Arguing that CO shouldn't have respecs in their cash store reminds me of the phrase "No use crying over spilled milk". It's already been done, complaining isn't going to change that. You don't have to like it, but it's not like they're magically going to change their mind on it.
In the end, this argument has very little to do with STO, despite the fact that some people want to use it to bash Cryptic/STO. As of yet, we have no evidence of what, will be in the C-store for STO. Although I suppose that doesn't matter since it seems you're quite happy to bash the game without actually experiencing it yourself. I find it funny how you can claim STO is the end of the world when you have to admit you don't know what you're talking about.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
I can understand not liking the concept of a cash store, even not playing a game because of it (though I find that far fetched), but you can't just assume it's a forced revenue model.
I agree that want and need are two different things, both of which neither you nor I can label for a third person. One person's want is another's need due to varying reasons (stats, roleplaying, etc.). The danger comes about when we start assuming that we know which is which for each individual and also in labeling one "lesser" than another.
I don't like the idea of cash stores sum total. I would be royally pissed if, while paying a monthly fee, I found in the cash store a decorative item that went along with my character's backstory 100%. Nothing else in the game that's a perfect fit like this item. Yep, I'd be a tad bit upset.
I'm still on the fence about buying this title. I'm not happy about Klingons (though it isn't a deal breaker as Cryptic has said they will add episodic content after launch if that's what people want and, well, judging from multiple forums they do) and I do not like cash shops. We'll see, though.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Indeed, but things people want and things people need are two very different things. People keep claiming that they don't like a cash store because they feel they need to buy from it. They need to realize that Cryptic has stuck to it's promise of not putting in anything you need to buy in order to play the game.
I can understand not liking the concept of a cash store, even not playing a game because of it (though I find that far fetched), but you can't just assume it's a forced revenue model.
I agree that want and need are two different things, both of which neither you nor I can label for a third person. One person's want is another's need due to varying reasons (stats, roleplaying, etc.). The danger comes about when we start assuming that we know which is which for each individual and also in labeling one "lesser" than another.
I don't like the idea of cash stores sum total. I would be royally pissed if, while paying a monthly fee, I found in the cash store a decorative item that went along with my character's backstory 100%. Nothing else in the game that's a perfect fit like this item. Yep, I'd be a tad bit upset.
I'm still on the fence about buying this title. I'm not happy about Klingons (though it isn't a deal breaker as Cryptic has said they will add episodic content after launch if that's what people want and, well, judging from multiple forums they do) and I do not like cash shops. We'll see, though.
Yeah, the cash shop is my only point of hesitation on pre-ordering STO. Read above that Cryptic puts gameplay items (paid respecs) in their shops as well. That's a bummer. In my opinion, a game stops being a game when cash shops are involved. It becomes a hobby or something. It's one thing to play for fun, and another to invest in a hobby. Definately need to find out how the shop will be implemented in STO.
Indeed.
If Cryptic had bothered to make a MMO with multiple factions, involved crafting & resource gathering and open/self-declared PvP most people would not be bitching about this game.
This game (in it's current state) is going to go down in MMO history as one of the biggest tanks ever.
Cryptic has become the new SOE....
So, because devs might get a negative reaction to what they say about a game, they shouldn't talk about a game anymore? How about we do what film critics do: in the absence of proper information about a game we assume it will suck.
Hmmmm...
Having been on the front lines of the the super fabulous Sho Kusugi ninja b***hslap to your exisiting customer base that was the NGE I'd have to disagree that Cryptic hasn't gotten that far down the road of repugnant.
SOE is still firmly entrenched in the #1 position of the Captain "F" You club founded by Judas (accepting new members for just 30 pieces of silver).
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Hmmmm...
Having been on the front lines of the the super fabulous Sho Kusugi ninja b***hslap to your exisiting customer base that was the NGE I'd have to disagree that Cryptic hasn't gotten that far down the road of repugnant.
SOE is still firmly entrenched in the #1 position of the Captain "F" You club founded by Judas (accepting new members for just 30 pieces of silver).
I agree 100%. Cryptic and SOE are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. Besides, there are 2 factions in release of the game so I dont know how Kramerica can say there is only 1. I sit back and look at this and think, hey, I know at some point I want to play klingon but I never really thought about how they would be implemented. People will complain about everything, But I thought it was a pretty good idea making them PVP, considering its never been tried before, and give them kudos for at least trying something different. All we ever hear is that every mmo is the same and we want innovation yet when a company does try something new, some people freak out about it. So its a no win situation for any MMO developer. It doesn't matter what they do, if its innovative or not, people will just get mad because if it is innovative, it sucks and if nots innovative, cryptic sucks for not trying. Yeah, this game is going to tank HUGE. And by tank, I mean its going to take all those beatings that people want to throw at it then its going to fire its torpedoes and blow em away. lol
How does one expect a subscriber to react when those under the same ublrella as the mockery of a mmorpg that champions online is, and just reskins that same grind-fest pve bore-fest and adds a ship to call it star trek online?
Aside from Darkfall as it ihas been able to limp along to its current state, and Aion with their broad bredth and depth of combined and integrated pvevp content, 2009 was a losing year in terms of mmorpg entertainment value, and the asshats are probably the developers for being so damn out of touch with a market that asking for something more.
How does one expect a subscriber to react when those under the same ublrella as the mockery of a mmorpg that champions online is, and just reskins that same grind-fest pve bore-fest and adds a ship to call it star trek online?
Aside from Darkfall as it ihas been able to limp along to its current state, and Aion with their broad bredth and depth of combined and integrated pvevp content, 2009 was a losing year in terms of mmorpg entertainment value, and the asshats are probably the developers for being so damn out of touch with a market that asking for something more.
But look what happens when someone gives them more. Darkfall is limping by and it was touted as the best pvp adventure game ever. Yet pvp'rs are quitting it by the droves. Look at Conan. A new battle system, Lets give them what they want, something different. We see how they are going along. The problem is people don't know what they want. All they know is they are bored and burnt out. And who are you to say CO is bad? You may not like it, but there are others that do. Then you claim that STO is the exact same game as CO yet, forgive me if I am wrong, STO isn't out yet. And you certainly can't tell me that watching the videos that have come out or the pictures that are out there makes it look anything like CO because it doesn't. What was wrong with Aion? It was a perfectly fine game. Great graphics, combat system was fun, flight was unique, and it is one of the only PVP games out there that actually has a purpose for pvp. However, it was a grindfest, especially when you got around 30 and up. But so it every single MMO out there. It is what they are. So why don't you just classify all MMO's out there the same and forget about them and go to a different genre, it really sounds like your just burnt out.
Sounds like the guy at tentonhammer is saying shut up and take it. I would recommend seeing for yourself come open beta then going to tentonhammer and tell him what you think of him.