I always laugh when i see someone come to a forum talking about how they got ganked as a noob by a high level PVPer. not because he/she got ganked but because of the responses it brings from other PVPers. "haha get more skill"
"QQ"
"l2p"
I have run with people who gank "noobs" and too me its about as challenging as fighting my 5 year old nephew in street fighter 4. I got about as much satisfaction out of it as well, which was none.
so as i have played on darktide, Mordred, shadowbane and now Aions Abyss. its always the same, when you come up on one of these "hardcore" pvpers (you know the ones that boast how good they are on the forums) 1 vs 1, same level and what not, the majority of times they run without even trying to fight.
and they have the nerve to call other carebears?!?!
so what is it PVpers unless you have 20+ levels on your target
better gear than them
20 or so guildies with you
and your target is fighting a mob or two you wont engage? or will you have to call 5-10 more guildies just to make sure you have an advantage.
this is why i refer to PVP as P*ssies vs players.
lol, too true.
This is why I largely stay away from pvp games now. Love the pvp but hate the people attracted to the genre.
I always laugh when i see someone come to a forum talking about how they got ganked as a noob by a high level PVPer. not because he/she got ganked but because of the responses it brings from other PVPers. "haha get more skill"
"QQ"
"l2p"
I have run with people who gank "noobs" and too me its about as challenging as fighting my 5 year old nephew in street fighter 4. I got about as much satisfaction out of it as well, which was none.
so as i have played on darktide, Mordred, shadowbane and now Aions Abyss. its always the same, when you come up on one of these "hardcore" pvpers (you know the ones that boast how good they are on the forums) 1 vs 1, same level and what not, the majority of times they run without even trying to fight.
and they have the nerve to call other carebears?!?!
so what is it PVpers unless you have 20+ levels on your target
better gear than them
20 or so guildies with you
and your target is fighting a mob or two you wont engage? or will you have to call 5-10 more guildies just to make sure you have an advantage.
this is why i refer to PVP as P*ssies vs players.
lol, too true.
This is why I largely stay away from pvp games now. Love the pvp but hate the people attracted to the genre.
Look at all the stereotypes here.
Everyone who PVPs does it to kill newbies now?
OP is just a crybaby. It's like you have one bad experience where someone PKs you and automatically everyone who PVPs is like that.
And yeah OP everyone runs from you in PVP I'm sure, you're feared everywhere. People probably PK you just to hear you whine
That is why I think it is funny when people cry or say, "Hey I am hardcore pvp gamer." As if they means anything. LOL! Most pvp is about getting the first shot in and doing it when the opponent least expects it. Oh and as the OP said, a lot of the pvp in MMORPG's is about skills and levels. It is so easy to talk smack when you are ganking lowbee's with no gear. Nah...PvP in MMORPG's is the worst kind of pvp there is because it's all about gear and levels any more. ::sigh::
....
Is everyone on this post a troll or something?
If you don't like PVP sit on a carebear server, I don't come here and make fun of people who don't want to PVP. There should be alternatives.
Clearly little babies and carebears like the OP don't belong in a game with PVP, because getting killed by another player always leads them to come to a forum and cry like a baby. Wahh, I died, the game is unbalanced, etc. You're always making excuses. If you can't handle PVP then play a PVE game, that is all.
I'm not opposed to there being a PVE server and there being a PVE/PVP server. That way people like the OP can play in their safe, protected, and boring world while other players enjoy the real world.
Seriously though, a lot of the people on this forum are crybabies. Who forced you guys to play a game with PVP? All you do is whine about it being unbalanced.
I guess you want level 1's in an MMORPG to be able to kill level 60's, and maybe make the gear useless in PVP too. Everything you say goes against progression-based games. You really expect an MMORPG to NOT HAVE ADVANTAGES BASED ON GEAR/LVL? Wow..
I think you might misunderstand Teala to an extent. She plays EVE Online and I was under the impression she does some pvp with her corp. I recall giving her some advice on our EVE forums here when she first started out
That is why I think it is funny when people cry or say, "Hey I am hardcore pvp gamer." As if they means anything. LOL! Most pvp is about getting the first shot in and doing it when the opponent least expects it. Oh and as the OP said, a lot of the pvp in MMORPG's is about skills and levels. It is so easy to talk smack when you are ganking lowbee's with no gear. Nah...PvP in MMORPG's is the worst kind of pvp there is because it's all about gear and levels any more. ::sigh::
....
Is everyone on this post a troll or something?
If you don't like PVP sit on a carebear server, I don't come here and make fun of people who don't want to PVP. There should be alternatives.
Clearly little babies and carebears like the OP don't belong in a game with PVP, because getting killed by another player always leads them to come to a forum and cry like a baby. Wahh, I died, the game is unbalanced, etc. You're always making excuses. If you can't handle PVP then play a PVE game, that is all.
I'm not opposed to there being a PVE server and there being a PVE/PVP server. That way people like the OP can play in their safe, protected, and boring world while other players enjoy the real world.
Seriously though, a lot of the people on this forum are crybabies. Who forced you guys to play a game with PVP? All you do is whine about it being unbalanced.
I guess you want level 1's in an MMORPG to be able to kill level 60's, and maybe make the gear useless in PVP too. Everything you say goes against progression-based games. You really expect an MMORPG to NOT HAVE ADVANTAGES BASED ON GEAR/LVL? Wow..
I think you might misunderstand Teala to an extent. She plays EVE Online and I was under the impression she does some pvp with her corp. I recall giving her some advice on our EVE forums here when she first started out
Still
It's annoying to hear people talk about how PVP is about gear/levels and that is a bad thing.
I guess you want people to progress in an MMORPG, then have all that progression mean nothing when it comes to PVP? What would be the point in playing a progression-based game if your character did not get more powerful? There wouldn't be a point.
PVP should always be based on character progression, if it wasn't, then why not go play an RTS or another "balanced" game where everyone starts out the same?
That is why I think it is funny when people cry or say, "Hey I am hardcore pvp gamer." As if they means anything. LOL! Most pvp is about getting the first shot in and doing it when the opponent least expects it. Oh and as the OP said, a lot of the pvp in MMORPG's is about skills and levels. It is so easy to talk smack when you are ganking lowbee's with no gear. Nah...PvP in MMORPG's is the worst kind of pvp there is because it's all about gear and levels any more. ::sigh::
....
Is everyone on this post a troll or something?
If you don't like PVP sit on a carebear server, I don't come here and make fun of people who don't want to PVP. There should be alternatives.
Clearly little babies and carebears like the OP don't belong in a game with PVP, because getting killed by another player always leads them to come to a forum and cry like a baby. Wahh, I died, the game is unbalanced, etc. You're always making excuses. If you can't handle PVP then play a PVE game, that is all.
I'm not opposed to there being a PVE server and there being a PVE/PVP server. That way people like the OP can play in their safe, protected, and boring world while other players enjoy the real world.
Seriously though, a lot of the people on this forum are crybabies. Who forced you guys to play a game with PVP? All you do is whine about it being unbalanced.
I guess you want level 1's in an MMORPG to be able to kill level 60's, and maybe make the gear useless in PVP too. Everything you say goes against progression-based games. You really expect an MMORPG to NOT HAVE ADVANTAGES BASED ON GEAR/LVL? Wow..
I think you might misunderstand Teala to an extent. She plays EVE Online and I was under the impression she does some pvp with her corp. I recall giving her some advice on our EVE forums here when she first started out
Still
It's annoying to hear people talk about how PVP is about gear/levels and that is a bad thing.
I guess you want people to progress in an MMORPG, then have all that progression mean nothing when it comes to PVP? What would be the point in playing a progression-based game if your character did not get more powerful? There wouldn't be a point.
PVP should always be based on character progression, if it wasn't, then why not go play an RTS or another "balanced" game where everyone starts out the same?
See you think pvp is about gears and level. I think of pvp as player vs player - where skill and knowledge trumps gear and levels. MMORPG's are by and large the worst platform for good pvp. Sorry that I do not agree with you take on it and I do laugh whenever I hear someone yell or scream I am a hardcore pvp and play game X. Oh and I love PvP.
i would hardly consider myself a hardcore pvper, but i do like to pvp. In EVE i'm a pirate and usually hunt and find people and kill them. It doesnt matter how "old" there character is, because i dont know how many SP he has or how many friends he has. I just know i have to get in there, pop his ship, loot, then get out. Now i have killed many newbs in eve, but tbh it never really affected me. I get a killmail, and teach these guys a lesson, that is to stay out of lowsec till they are ready. Although i have also been on the recieving end of ganks, and the losing end of 1v1's. I kind of agree with the OP, i see people all the time roaming with a large gang just popping single ships wherever they see them, and tbh that just doesnt seem fun to me. And it seems to require little skill as well.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
That is why I think it is funny when people cry or say, "Hey I am hardcore pvp gamer." As if they means anything. LOL! Most pvp is about getting the first shot in and doing it when the opponent least expects it. Oh and as the OP said, a lot of the pvp in MMORPG's is about skills and levels. It is so easy to talk smack when you are ganking lowbee's with no gear. Nah...PvP in MMORPG's is the worst kind of pvp there is because it's all about gear and levels any more. ::sigh::
....
Is everyone on this post a troll or something?
If you don't like PVP sit on a carebear server, I don't come here and make fun of people who don't want to PVP. There should be alternatives.
Clearly little babies and carebears like the OP don't belong in a game with PVP, because getting killed by another player always leads them to come to a forum and cry like a baby. Wahh, I died, the game is unbalanced, etc. You're always making excuses. If you can't handle PVP then play a PVE game, that is all.
I'm not opposed to there being a PVE server and there being a PVE/PVP server. That way people like the OP can play in their safe, protected, and boring world while other players enjoy the real world.
Seriously though, a lot of the people on this forum are crybabies. Who forced you guys to play a game with PVP? All you do is whine about it being unbalanced.
I guess you want level 1's in an MMORPG to be able to kill level 60's, and maybe make the gear useless in PVP too. Everything you say goes against progression-based games. You really expect an MMORPG to NOT HAVE ADVANTAGES BASED ON GEAR/LVL? Wow..
I think you might misunderstand Teala to an extent. She plays EVE Online and I was under the impression she does some pvp with her corp. I recall giving her some advice on our EVE forums here when she first started out
Still
It's annoying to hear people talk about how PVP is about gear/levels and that is a bad thing.
I guess you want people to progress in an MMORPG, then have all that progression mean nothing when it comes to PVP? What would be the point in playing a progression-based game if your character did not get more powerful? There wouldn't be a point.
PVP should always be based on character progression, if it wasn't, then why not go play an RTS or another "balanced" game where everyone starts out the same?
See you think pvp is about gears and level. I think of pvp as player vs player - where skill and knowledge trumps gear and levels. MMORPG's are by and large the worst platform for good pvp. Sorry that I do not agree with you take on it and I do laugh whenever I hear someone yell or scream I am a hardcore pvp and play game X. Oh and I love PvP.
Gears, Level, and Skill.
If you have it purely skill based, then there is no point to progressing in an MMORPG, if my level 1 can take out a level 60 who has the best stuff in the game, why do I care about leveling and progression and getting better gear, etc.?
I think it should involve all 3 in reality.
If you have similar gear and levels skill should be enough to change the outcome of the fight. But I don't think a level 50 with crap gear should be able to kill a 60 with good gear.
I'm a carebear, rarely play as an agressor, and yet, almost always play in PVP servers.
I see combat on them to be zero-sum, there are winners and losers. There are no rules, no code of honor (though I follow one myself) and I have no expectations as to the type of gameplay I'm going to encounter.
When I play EVE I try to avoid PVP. However, when I do decide to go out and fight, I make sure the odds are in my favor as much as possible, and will prosecute all targets that we come across regardless of the "fairness" of the fight.
I ask no quarter, and none is ever given.
The issue the OP and others brought up occurs when people expect MMORPG combat to be "fair'. As others have pointed out, you want fair PVP, go play a FPS shooter where everyone is basically equal. MMORPG's are all about trying to get an unfair advantage on your opponent, either through levels (which I loath) gear, or numerical superiority. (and even on occasion, tactical superiority)
WOW has tried very hard to provide 'fair' combat, and people seem to enjoy it. But not me.
I pay my dues, and defend myself the best I can. I learn how to evade and avoid ganking and consider it a challenge to level up in such an environment.
Now true, I'm not a fan of hardcore looting, just don't have the time or patience to replace my gear regularly (since I tend to lose a lot) so I like games like EVE where I can control my risk.
While the OP says that PVP'er are more carebear, that's not really fair, they are just making sure they win at all cost, which is really the only way a pvp game should ever be played.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
See you think pvp is about gears and level. I think of pvp as player vs player - where skill and knowledge trumps gear and levels. MMORPG's are by and large the worst platform for good pvp. Sorry that I do not agree with you take on it and I do laugh whenever I hear someone yell or scream I am a hardcore pvp and play game X. Oh and I love PvP.
That about sums it up, and it's the root reason the OP is correct.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
See, posters like Ginky are the reason PvP is bad. I normally don't care about any rules, or lack thereof. Bu the attitude of the mainstream "hardcore" PvPers is just atrocious. If you need an example just look at all of Ginky's posts in this thread.
The funny thing is, I doubt many people here even know what true hardcore PvP is. I used to play MUD's with full blown PvP. The kind where you lose all your gear when you die, the kind where you lose an entire level when you die. Sure, it was fun for a little bit. I only engaged in PvP when people attacked me. Most people under-estimated me, but I usually prevailed. And would kill them, and if they ran after failling to kill me. Well...I would hunt them down and give them something to remember for the future about attacking me.
Current PvP, has lost some of its intent. PvP in its most purest, truest form...is about making the other side weaker. What better way then to reduce them by a level, or make them lose their gear? I do admit, it's annoying when a group of 5 comes after you (while you are alone) and ganks you back to level 1. It really would piss anyone off. Which is why there are boundaries for PvP now.
I still think the most enjoyable PvP i ever had was in Guild Wars. Where everyone had the same armor pretty much, weapons didn't differ greatly. Only your builds, and your skill with the builds. CHOOSING your skills instead of taking your whole library of skills with you. You HAD to be knowledgable about your skills/class to succeed.
But for those who will surely post "TLDR" ....My point is, it boils down to attitude. People need to change their attitude and just be sportsmanlike about winning or losing and PvP will become enjoyable for everyone.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
I like good PvP, but most PvP in MMORPGs is not good PvP.
We have the gankers; high level players mangling low level players who can't fight back or even defend themselves with any expectation of success. That's not good PvP, it's just ganking.
Then we have RvR. I'm absolutely sure that I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I consider MMORPG RvR to be the amongst the worst form of PvP. It's always a numbers game that is won or lost depending on population, and who has the most high-damage ranged nukers.
Even numerically restricted "fair" PvP fights (like WoW's Arena) is flawed due to the impossibility of having balanced classes and the failure to eliminate class counters and "paper/rock/scissors".
No, if you want truly balanced, good and competitive PvP then it's not to be found in an MMORPG. The only one that has come close is EVE, due to being skill-based and relying heavily on the ship and equipment to restrict the ability of one player to "out-stat" another.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
I've been playing Eve for nearly 5 months now and I haven't been in a fair fight yet. I have also been lead to believe that "if you get into a fair fight in Eve - you're doing it wrong." This makes me kinda sad. The fights are very anticlimactic most of the time.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
The best balanced PvP I've played in an MMORPG-ish game is in Guild Wars. Hands down. But since the game is not really a MMORPG (in the traditional sense) people tend to skip it. A shame really.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I like good PvP, but most PvP in MMORPGs is not good PvP. We have the gankers; high level players mangling low level players who can't fight back or even defend themselves with any expectation of success. That's not good PvP, it's just ganking. Then we have RvR. I'm absolutely sure that I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I consider MMORPG RvR to be the amongst the worst form of PvP. It's always a numbers game that is won or lost depending on population, and who has the most high-damage ranged nukers. Even numerically restricted "fair" PvP fights (like WoW's Arena) is flawed due to the impossibility of having balanced classes and the failure to eliminate class counters and "paper/rock/scissors". No, if you want truly balanced, good and competitive PvP then it's not to be found in an MMORPG. The only one that has come close is EVE, due to being skill-based and relying heavily on the ship and equipment to restrict the ability of one player to "out-stat" another.
Thats why MMORPGs needs somekind of flaggind system.
just to show how that another player is feeling at that very moment.
theres no Dungeon Master telling you that "theres superturbohell666 behind you and hes going to stab you on the back because he is angry because he lost 10000 credits today"
no,you cant know that.
without anykind of flagging and anykind of rules these kind of players are like 1 month babies,they dont have rules,simple as that.
It looks that some peoples will never understand what massive game play mean. Thats the reason some peoples, so named hardocre, call others carebears. The main difference between this two types of player is that the first always try to find and know how to act in different situations till the second one expect everything to be completed for them.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration ______\m/_____ LordOfDarkDesire
I always laugh when i see someone come to a forum talking about how they got ganked as a noob by a high level PVPer. not because he/she got ganked but because of the responses it brings from other PVPers. "haha get more skill"
"QQ"
"l2p"
I have run with people who gank "noobs" and too me its about as challenging as fighting my 5 year old nephew in street fighter 4. I got about as much satisfaction out of it as well, which was none.
so as i have played on darktide, Mordred, shadowbane and now Aions Abyss. its always the same, when you come up on one of these "hardcore" pvpers (you know the ones that boast how good they are on the forums) 1 vs 1, same level and what not, the majority of times they run without even trying to fight.
and they have the nerve to call other carebears?!?!
so what is it PVpers unless you have 20+ levels on your target
better gear than them
20 or so guildies with you
and your target is fighting a mob or two you wont engage? or will you have to call 5-10 more guildies just to make sure you have an advantage.
this is why i refer to PVP as P*ssies vs players.
Play solo like me in Darkfall and fight whenever needed win or lose dont matter thats true pvper and oh dont say a word just kill or be killed,
Im solo now 9months and still have fun.
All who constantly bragging and what you mainly discribe also dont bother me i just play and pvp and have fun.
I played also darktide ac and ac2 lineage2 and now darkfall.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
It looks that some peoples will never understand what massive game play mean. Thats the reason some peoples, so named hardocre, call others carebears. The main difference between this two types of player is that the first always try to find and know how to act in different situations till the second one expect everything to be completed for them.
its nothing "hardcore" if you press few buttons and kill someone and yell next.
its pretty "hardcore" if you break 1000 laws and rules and yell ,i didnt even do anything.
point is ,its nothing to swing that sword ,its what happened before the swing.
It looks that some peoples will never understand what massive game play mean. Thats the reason some peoples, so named hardocre, call others carebears. The main difference between this two types of player is that the first always try to find and know how to act in different situations till the second one expect everything to be completed for them.
its nothing "hardcore" if you press few buttons and kill someone and yell next.
its pretty "hardcore" if you break 1000 laws and rules and yell ,i didnt even do anything.
point is ,its nothing to swing that sword ,its what happened before the swing.
PvP can be awesome. It really depends on the game and how well balanced the PvP actually is, though. It's simply an unfortunate fact that "hard core" PvP'ers are predominantly attracted to games that provide dramatic advantages to one player over another, for whatever reason (level, gear, etc). Anyone that has played a full loot (or similar) PvP oriented MMO knows that these l33tf@gs always end up operating in one way... generally avoiding combat with their peers (for fear of losing gear/xp/points/etc) while focusing mightily on n00b carnage that serves as ambrosia to their sensitive egos.
This is not real PvP. Real PvP involves risk as well as reward. These "hard core" wannabes might as well be playing a game on rails, as there is no challenge in their daily activities. Well, avoiding players of their own level might present some challenge from time to time I suppose. But, in the end, if you were to chart the average difficulty of the content experienced by pure PvE'ers and contrast that with these "hard core" losers, you'll find the supposed "carebears" engage more difficult content on a daily basis. So really the OP is right on that reversal.
However, back to normal PvP. In games that provide everyone a decent shot (by incorporating a certain degree of player skill into a fight's outcome for instance), there will probably never be a more fun experience than players fighting other real players.
Comments
lol, too true.
This is why I largely stay away from pvp games now. Love the pvp but hate the people attracted to the genre.
Awww, Ginky, you're so adorable! **************
lol, too true.
This is why I largely stay away from pvp games now. Love the pvp but hate the people attracted to the genre.
Look at all the stereotypes here.
Everyone who PVPs does it to kill newbies now?
OP is just a crybaby. It's like you have one bad experience where someone PKs you and automatically everyone who PVPs is like that.
And yeah OP everyone runs from you in PVP I'm sure, you're feared everywhere. People probably PK you just to hear you whine
....
Is everyone on this post a troll or something?
If you don't like PVP sit on a carebear server, I don't come here and make fun of people who don't want to PVP. There should be alternatives.
Clearly little babies and carebears like the OP don't belong in a game with PVP, because getting killed by another player always leads them to come to a forum and cry like a baby. Wahh, I died, the game is unbalanced, etc. You're always making excuses. If you can't handle PVP then play a PVE game, that is all.
I'm not opposed to there being a PVE server and there being a PVE/PVP server. That way people like the OP can play in their safe, protected, and boring world while other players enjoy the real world.
Seriously though, a lot of the people on this forum are crybabies. Who forced you guys to play a game with PVP? All you do is whine about it being unbalanced.
I guess you want level 1's in an MMORPG to be able to kill level 60's, and maybe make the gear useless in PVP too. Everything you say goes against progression-based games. You really expect an MMORPG to NOT HAVE ADVANTAGES BASED ON GEAR/LVL? Wow..
I think you might misunderstand Teala to an extent. She plays EVE Online and I was under the impression she does some pvp with her corp. I recall giving her some advice on our EVE forums here when she first started out
....
Is everyone on this post a troll or something?
If you don't like PVP sit on a carebear server, I don't come here and make fun of people who don't want to PVP. There should be alternatives.
Clearly little babies and carebears like the OP don't belong in a game with PVP, because getting killed by another player always leads them to come to a forum and cry like a baby. Wahh, I died, the game is unbalanced, etc. You're always making excuses. If you can't handle PVP then play a PVE game, that is all.
I'm not opposed to there being a PVE server and there being a PVE/PVP server. That way people like the OP can play in their safe, protected, and boring world while other players enjoy the real world.
Seriously though, a lot of the people on this forum are crybabies. Who forced you guys to play a game with PVP? All you do is whine about it being unbalanced.
I guess you want level 1's in an MMORPG to be able to kill level 60's, and maybe make the gear useless in PVP too. Everything you say goes against progression-based games. You really expect an MMORPG to NOT HAVE ADVANTAGES BASED ON GEAR/LVL? Wow..
I think you might misunderstand Teala to an extent. She plays EVE Online and I was under the impression she does some pvp with her corp. I recall giving her some advice on our EVE forums here when she first started out
Still
It's annoying to hear people talk about how PVP is about gear/levels and that is a bad thing.
I guess you want people to progress in an MMORPG, then have all that progression mean nothing when it comes to PVP? What would be the point in playing a progression-based game if your character did not get more powerful? There wouldn't be a point.
PVP should always be based on character progression, if it wasn't, then why not go play an RTS or another "balanced" game where everyone starts out the same?
....
Is everyone on this post a troll or something?
If you don't like PVP sit on a carebear server, I don't come here and make fun of people who don't want to PVP. There should be alternatives.
Clearly little babies and carebears like the OP don't belong in a game with PVP, because getting killed by another player always leads them to come to a forum and cry like a baby. Wahh, I died, the game is unbalanced, etc. You're always making excuses. If you can't handle PVP then play a PVE game, that is all.
I'm not opposed to there being a PVE server and there being a PVE/PVP server. That way people like the OP can play in their safe, protected, and boring world while other players enjoy the real world.
Seriously though, a lot of the people on this forum are crybabies. Who forced you guys to play a game with PVP? All you do is whine about it being unbalanced.
I guess you want level 1's in an MMORPG to be able to kill level 60's, and maybe make the gear useless in PVP too. Everything you say goes against progression-based games. You really expect an MMORPG to NOT HAVE ADVANTAGES BASED ON GEAR/LVL? Wow..
I think you might misunderstand Teala to an extent. She plays EVE Online and I was under the impression she does some pvp with her corp. I recall giving her some advice on our EVE forums here when she first started out
Still
It's annoying to hear people talk about how PVP is about gear/levels and that is a bad thing.
I guess you want people to progress in an MMORPG, then have all that progression mean nothing when it comes to PVP? What would be the point in playing a progression-based game if your character did not get more powerful? There wouldn't be a point.
PVP should always be based on character progression, if it wasn't, then why not go play an RTS or another "balanced" game where everyone starts out the same?
See you think pvp is about gears and level. I think of pvp as player vs player - where skill and knowledge trumps gear and levels. MMORPG's are by and large the worst platform for good pvp. Sorry that I do not agree with you take on it and I do laugh whenever I hear someone yell or scream I am a hardcore pvp and play game X. Oh and I love PvP.
i would hardly consider myself a hardcore pvper, but i do like to pvp. In EVE i'm a pirate and usually hunt and find people and kill them. It doesnt matter how "old" there character is, because i dont know how many SP he has or how many friends he has. I just know i have to get in there, pop his ship, loot, then get out. Now i have killed many newbs in eve, but tbh it never really affected me. I get a killmail, and teach these guys a lesson, that is to stay out of lowsec till they are ready. Although i have also been on the recieving end of ganks, and the losing end of 1v1's. I kind of agree with the OP, i see people all the time roaming with a large gang just popping single ships wherever they see them, and tbh that just doesnt seem fun to me. And it seems to require little skill as well.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
....
Is everyone on this post a troll or something?
If you don't like PVP sit on a carebear server, I don't come here and make fun of people who don't want to PVP. There should be alternatives.
Clearly little babies and carebears like the OP don't belong in a game with PVP, because getting killed by another player always leads them to come to a forum and cry like a baby. Wahh, I died, the game is unbalanced, etc. You're always making excuses. If you can't handle PVP then play a PVE game, that is all.
I'm not opposed to there being a PVE server and there being a PVE/PVP server. That way people like the OP can play in their safe, protected, and boring world while other players enjoy the real world.
Seriously though, a lot of the people on this forum are crybabies. Who forced you guys to play a game with PVP? All you do is whine about it being unbalanced.
I guess you want level 1's in an MMORPG to be able to kill level 60's, and maybe make the gear useless in PVP too. Everything you say goes against progression-based games. You really expect an MMORPG to NOT HAVE ADVANTAGES BASED ON GEAR/LVL? Wow..
I think you might misunderstand Teala to an extent. She plays EVE Online and I was under the impression she does some pvp with her corp. I recall giving her some advice on our EVE forums here when she first started out
Still
It's annoying to hear people talk about how PVP is about gear/levels and that is a bad thing.
I guess you want people to progress in an MMORPG, then have all that progression mean nothing when it comes to PVP? What would be the point in playing a progression-based game if your character did not get more powerful? There wouldn't be a point.
PVP should always be based on character progression, if it wasn't, then why not go play an RTS or another "balanced" game where everyone starts out the same?
See you think pvp is about gears and level. I think of pvp as player vs player - where skill and knowledge trumps gear and levels. MMORPG's are by and large the worst platform for good pvp. Sorry that I do not agree with you take on it and I do laugh whenever I hear someone yell or scream I am a hardcore pvp and play game X. Oh and I love PvP.
Gears, Level, and Skill.
If you have it purely skill based, then there is no point to progressing in an MMORPG, if my level 1 can take out a level 60 who has the best stuff in the game, why do I care about leveling and progression and getting better gear, etc.?
I think it should involve all 3 in reality.
If you have similar gear and levels skill should be enough to change the outcome of the fight. But I don't think a level 50 with crap gear should be able to kill a 60 with good gear.
I'm a carebear, rarely play as an agressor, and yet, almost always play in PVP servers.
I see combat on them to be zero-sum, there are winners and losers. There are no rules, no code of honor (though I follow one myself) and I have no expectations as to the type of gameplay I'm going to encounter.
When I play EVE I try to avoid PVP. However, when I do decide to go out and fight, I make sure the odds are in my favor as much as possible, and will prosecute all targets that we come across regardless of the "fairness" of the fight.
I ask no quarter, and none is ever given.
The issue the OP and others brought up occurs when people expect MMORPG combat to be "fair'. As others have pointed out, you want fair PVP, go play a FPS shooter where everyone is basically equal. MMORPG's are all about trying to get an unfair advantage on your opponent, either through levels (which I loath) gear, or numerical superiority. (and even on occasion, tactical superiority)
WOW has tried very hard to provide 'fair' combat, and people seem to enjoy it. But not me.
I pay my dues, and defend myself the best I can. I learn how to evade and avoid ganking and consider it a challenge to level up in such an environment.
Now true, I'm not a fan of hardcore looting, just don't have the time or patience to replace my gear regularly (since I tend to lose a lot) so I like games like EVE where I can control my risk.
While the OP says that PVP'er are more carebear, that's not really fair, they are just making sure they win at all cost, which is really the only way a pvp game should ever be played.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Exactly.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
That about sums it up, and it's the root reason the OP is correct.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
See, posters like Ginky are the reason PvP is bad. I normally don't care about any rules, or lack thereof. Bu the attitude of the mainstream "hardcore" PvPers is just atrocious. If you need an example just look at all of Ginky's posts in this thread.
The funny thing is, I doubt many people here even know what true hardcore PvP is. I used to play MUD's with full blown PvP. The kind where you lose all your gear when you die, the kind where you lose an entire level when you die. Sure, it was fun for a little bit. I only engaged in PvP when people attacked me. Most people under-estimated me, but I usually prevailed. And would kill them, and if they ran after failling to kill me. Well...I would hunt them down and give them something to remember for the future about attacking me.
Current PvP, has lost some of its intent. PvP in its most purest, truest form...is about making the other side weaker. What better way then to reduce them by a level, or make them lose their gear? I do admit, it's annoying when a group of 5 comes after you (while you are alone) and ganks you back to level 1. It really would piss anyone off. Which is why there are boundaries for PvP now.
I still think the most enjoyable PvP i ever had was in Guild Wars. Where everyone had the same armor pretty much, weapons didn't differ greatly. Only your builds, and your skill with the builds. CHOOSING your skills instead of taking your whole library of skills with you. You HAD to be knowledgable about your skills/class to succeed.
But for those who will surely post "TLDR" ....My point is, it boils down to attitude. People need to change their attitude and just be sportsmanlike about winning or losing and PvP will become enjoyable for everyone.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
Theres no PvP in MMORPGs ,its something else
giev me 1 MMORPG wheres working flagging system,theres nada
lets take CSS example ,they have real-time flagging system
WYSIWYG = what you see is what you get
and
WYHIWYG=what you hear is what you get
MMORPG example = what you cant never imagine is what you get = WYCNIIWYG todays roleplaying PvP in its best.
Generation P
PvP is at its best on a level playing field.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I like good PvP, but most PvP in MMORPGs is not good PvP.
We have the gankers; high level players mangling low level players who can't fight back or even defend themselves with any expectation of success. That's not good PvP, it's just ganking.
Then we have RvR. I'm absolutely sure that I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I consider MMORPG RvR to be the amongst the worst form of PvP. It's always a numbers game that is won or lost depending on population, and who has the most high-damage ranged nukers.
Even numerically restricted "fair" PvP fights (like WoW's Arena) is flawed due to the impossibility of having balanced classes and the failure to eliminate class counters and "paper/rock/scissors".
No, if you want truly balanced, good and competitive PvP then it's not to be found in an MMORPG. The only one that has come close is EVE, due to being skill-based and relying heavily on the ship and equipment to restrict the ability of one player to "out-stat" another.
Playing: EVE, Final Fantasy 13, Uncharted 2, Need for Speed: Shift
Balanced PVP is what people scream for when they are losing.
If they are winning, the system IS balanced correctly.
Long live the ZERG!
Ken
Opinions are my own. It's not like my employer gives a rats butt what I think.
www.ActionMMORPG.com
One man, a small pile of money, and the screwball idea of a DIY Indie MMORPG? Yep, that's him. ~sigh~
I've been playing Eve for nearly 5 months now and I haven't been in a fair fight yet. I have also been lead to believe that "if you get into a fair fight in Eve - you're doing it wrong." This makes me kinda sad. The fights are very anticlimactic most of the time.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
The best balanced PvP I've played in an MMORPG-ish game is in Guild Wars. Hands down. But since the game is not really a MMORPG (in the traditional sense) people tend to skip it. A shame really.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
need a vote
Thats why MMORPGs needs somekind of flaggind system.
just to show how that another player is feeling at that very moment.
theres no Dungeon Master telling you that "theres superturbohell666 behind you and hes going to stab you on the back because he is angry because he lost 10000 credits today"
no,you cant know that.
without anykind of flagging and anykind of rules these kind of players are like 1 month babies,they dont have rules,simple as that.
Generation P
It looks that some peoples will never understand what massive game play mean. Thats the reason some peoples, so named hardocre, call others carebears. The main difference between this two types of player is that the first always try to find and know how to act in different situations till the second one expect everything to be completed for them.
Where themepark games try to hide that they are copying WOW, games like Mortal Online and Darkfall make no attempt to hide their inspiration
______\m/_____
LordOfDarkDesire
Play solo like me in Darkfall and fight whenever needed win or lose dont matter thats true pvper and oh dont say a word just kill or be killed,
Im solo now 9months and still have fun.
All who constantly bragging and what you mainly discribe also dont bother me i just play and pvp and have fun.
I played also darktide ac and ac2 lineage2 and now darkfall.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
its nothing "hardcore" if you press few buttons and kill someone and yell next.
its pretty "hardcore" if you break 1000 laws and rules and yell ,i didnt even do anything.
point is ,its nothing to swing that sword ,its what happened before the swing.
Generation P
its nothing "hardcore" if you press few buttons and kill someone and yell next.
its pretty "hardcore" if you break 1000 laws and rules and yell ,i didnt even do anything.
point is ,its nothing to swing that sword ,its what happened before the swing.
can call it to RPn if want to
Generation P
PvP can be awesome. It really depends on the game and how well balanced the PvP actually is, though. It's simply an unfortunate fact that "hard core" PvP'ers are predominantly attracted to games that provide dramatic advantages to one player over another, for whatever reason (level, gear, etc). Anyone that has played a full loot (or similar) PvP oriented MMO knows that these l33tf@gs always end up operating in one way... generally avoiding combat with their peers (for fear of losing gear/xp/points/etc) while focusing mightily on n00b carnage that serves as ambrosia to their sensitive egos.
This is not real PvP. Real PvP involves risk as well as reward. These "hard core" wannabes might as well be playing a game on rails, as there is no challenge in their daily activities. Well, avoiding players of their own level might present some challenge from time to time I suppose. But, in the end, if you were to chart the average difficulty of the content experienced by pure PvE'ers and contrast that with these "hard core" losers, you'll find the supposed "carebears" engage more difficult content on a daily basis. So really the OP is right on that reversal.
However, back to normal PvP. In games that provide everyone a decent shot (by incorporating a certain degree of player skill into a fight's outcome for instance), there will probably never be a more fun experience than players fighting other real players.