Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Interactivity : The paradox of the modern MMO
Shijeer
Member Posts: 131
Heh, Overall, I find it quite sad that, with the proliferation of advanced game technology, games are being 'dumbed down' instead of becoming more complex and engaging. Of course there are a number of gems in the sea of 'pretty' and 'shiny' mediocrity. Most modern games when stripped of their shell are nothing but mere arcades. Many years ago, developers were forced to be creative with the little resources they had, and that was the beginning of most major advances in gaming.
Nowadays it seems, there is no need, we just have too many things we can do with a game, too much power, and because of this freedom devs simply don't know what to do with it. It ends up being thrown into decoration and presentation. And the end result? A never-ending stream of games that are essentially the same, with minor modifications, all trying to out-do each other in the graphics department. The gaming industry is in a tricky position at the moment, we have enough to make games look amazing, but not enough to achieve that without placing serious restrictions on gameplay and sacrificing other game aspects. And the worst part of it all is that 'we', the consumer want those gorgeous shiny little things, after all, we take what we get... In all this rush to create the latest and best looking 'theme-park', not enough attention has been given to the little things, and in no genre it is as important as in MMOG's.
You can design and render the most amazing looking room in a game, photo realistic even, but what use is it to the players apart from the odd glance? I bet a less detailed room with usable chairs and a table will be actually populated, players will make use of it. It strikes me as absolutely ridiculous that the more 'advanced' MMOG's become, the less interactive the world becomes, inherently social places such as taverns have transformed from places of meeting and community participation to yet another 'shiny' doodle to look at, its no wonder they are empty. Its absolutely absurd....
Take for example UO back in the day, people sitting in the tavern, beverages and food are placed on the table, a friendly game of chess is played, a pleasant tune is performed by someone in the corner. SWG also did it right... but now? WoW, AoC, TR, WAR and the list goes on... the interactivity decreases as our technology improves! Its always a bonus to have a game looking nice and detailed, I would even go as far as saying that it is mandatory, but the main mover should be increased interactivity and with it, immersion. Whether its a piece of paper you can scribble stuff on, a chair you can actually use or a game/player character your avatar can actually interact with... anything is an improvement. Adding a few more polygons and increasing the texture resolution of a chair in the tavern, ultimately using up the time you could have used to make it interactive is just sad. First and foremost an MMOG is a 'multiplayer' game, its about people playing with other people, the community. Sometimes it seems to me that games are starting to be designed to play themselves, becoming closer and closer to a completely passive experience where players enjoy their individual 'theme-park' ride, with other players running somewhere in the background...
People even seem to react differently to new games. Instead of saying 'wow, check out all the stuff you can do' people say 'wow, look how awesome everything looks'. Ideally both these things should be present at the same time. But development is limited, time is money, and the average gamer seems to want the latter of the two.... leaves the devs no choice, they want to sell their game after all....
I apologise for the rant, but I feel that things in the gaming industry are not moving where they should be, no doubt a consequence of the rise of the 'casual' gamer, the gamer that has never played games, the gamer that doesn't want it to be too confusing. Basically, he wants a nice looking arcade to pass the time. This unconscious, nagging realisation within the gaming industry has spawned a perverse and compulsive, almost obsessive urge to 'cram' the 'simple, user friendly, arcade' into the inherently more complex games, such as an MMORPG. It just cant be done ! The result is an abomination.... I suspect this is the cause of the retro evolutionary path games seem to take nowadays, they have 'ingrown' instead of expanding, they are 'held back', lest they become too confusing for the 'casual' gamer.... this is a forced and unnatural growth for the computer game... I can only hope that things will improve eventually as a result of the maturing of the gaming demographic and advances in computing to a point where making the game look 'awesome' becomes trivial, forcing devs to seek their competitive advantage through other aspects, such as the gameplay/interactivity, the storyline etc.....
Simply put, improving the 'looks' is fine and desirable, but not to the point of being forced to make the game world less interactive and dumbing down the game play. Furthermore, due to the diminishing returns involved in improving the 'looks' by even a barely noticeable amount, less and less time is spend on interactivity, resulting a more 'restricting', albeit pretty game.... sad sad sad, truly sad...
The thing is, the internet has moved from a place of advertisement, convenience and information created by organisations, to a place of user created content (think blogs, Youtube, Myspace etc.) Online games should also tap into the opportunity of having thousands upon thousands of players all eager to etch their own mark in the game world, and some have. But its a fine line and a very slippery slope. Its hard to strike the right kind of balance between the game and the user created content. Moderated contributions to the game such as player created ship designs in PoTBS are great, but giving them complete freedom can turn horrible. Think, Second Life... its an advert filled dump of useless and random content, there is no consistency, there is no game (in this particular case thats the point, but still we see how damaging such freedom would be to a traditional game)
In my opinion the best way is to permit advanced interaction within the world made by the devs. Let players interact with the environment a bit more, but not to the point of having them destroy the game. Let them move stuff around in their houses and guildhalls but restrict the interaction with public place objects. Let them make extensive modifications to the items they craft... colour, texture, form etc. but by all means restrict those interactions so that the items still are uniform 'enough' to be classed and managed together. Its better to have more options and giving the player a choice, then to simply dumb down the game lest the novice gamer gets confused. If there's a fancy crafting item customisation system, give the new player some simple templates and so on. Choice is key, interaction is key... players want to affect their surroundings, their game. Future MMO's have to move towards accommodating that urge, in 5 years or so all games will look good enough, ragdolls, cloth and water physics will be commonplace. And that's when the focus should hopefully turn towards interactivity.
SPORE failed because it was a online game without the online part, but more importantly because they did the exact opposite of the general trend. They focused so much on the user created content, customisation and environmental alteration that the game turned out dry, shallow and ultimately unsatisfying and repetitive. In the same way most other games are so obsessed with the visuals, the cut-scenes and the presentation 'style', so much so that they start to ignore the basic things that make a game a game. in games, fun is interaction with the game world, fun is when you do what you feel like doing, doing things 'your own way', hence why they are called 'games'.
Thats what games should be about, not trying to emulate the 'movies' by crudely stuffing the concept down a games throat to the point where the player doesn't understand when the cut scene ends and the game begins. I've seen some of the newer console games and it truly amazes me how half a level can be a huge cut scene with the interaction limited to pressing one button at the right time... (I'm exaggerating, naturally, but the thoughtful reader gets my point) Impressive, yes, immersive, maybe, is it a game, dunno... can the guys down at Hollywood do better, probably....
Of course there are many aspects of fun within a game, but the point I'm trying to make is that we should be interacting more with the game environment because now technology makes it possible, thus exploiting the only thing games have that other sources of entertainment such as books and movies don't, interaction. Not because we want it to be a pretty version of what is essentially a game from the early 90's, this thinking, which is still at the heart of modern games makes up the stereotype of what makes a game. What we seem to fail to understand is that the guys that made the old games, the ones that define the genres and their gameplay even to this day made them like that because technology and resources were limited. Now that everything is so advanced we should start bringing gaming to the next level.
MMO's have broken the chain that defined gaming, we have done away with 'lives', 'levels' and linear progression. We have grandiose virtual worlds populated by thousands of players, and now that computers are becoming very powerful and internet connections almost instant, we can truly start taking steps towards truly interactive virtual worlds....
Now, it might seem that I'm all about making things as complex as humanly possible, that's not true, I believe that with a touch of creativity, complexity and interactiveness; choices can be achieved without having 100 menus and a GUI so big it hardly lets you see the actual game...
Think about all the stuff you can do in the Sims (a huge amount), and how easy it is to manage and control it all (children play that game!). The trick is to keep the design sharp and clean. To think about the player experience without cutting corners and later realising that the casual gamers and novices you had in mind when making it 'simple' have matured and are complaining about the lack of all those things you avoided for their sake. Choice... mask the complexity, make complexity a choice, let the player decide how 'deep' he wants to go and all will be well...
- Shijeer
Comments
Everything well put, completly agree with.
Life is a game - Play it!...
Any post that begins with the word 'Heh' gets a thumbs up from me.
As for the rest of the words, I didn't read them all, but I agree. MMOG's and games in general are getting dumbed down. Give us the environment interaction of DDO, the wide open world of Fallen Earth, and the graphic quality of Age of Conan. Listen to Bartles and finally make a game that appeals to all player types.
And fuck all these mainstream MMOG's. They are going to be dumbed down to increase their mass appeal. Go niche and stay niche.
Because interactivity just for the sake of it does not increase the fun factor.
If WOW makes all the plates on tavern tables movable objects, it won't add to the fun of the game. I would like Blizzard much to focus their resources on making good dungeon encounters and do not waste time on things like plates & cheese.
Yes movable plates wouldn't add much, but if the NPC's reacted to you trying to steal those plates... Hell, I'd have fun just watching all the WoW noobs get their asses kicked by the tavern keeper. If a game like Gothic has been doing this sort of thing for 10 years and Deus Ex had those sort of features so long ago, why would they be so hard to reproduce now?
The major problem with your trail of thought is that you're assuming that the average gamer wants complexity and innovation. In almost all cases, they don't. Most people play games casually, for perhaps 15-30 minutes a day, and those gamers often don't care whether a game has an exciting new concept when they get to pew pew shiny laser beams for a quick 15 minute adrenaline blast.
I'm not saying your entire post is wrong, I'm saying that the majority of gamers are not the same as the majority of hardcore gamers. In forums such as mmorpg.com, I constantly read how games such as Modern Warfare 2, Borderlands, Spore and other games failed miserably. In actuality, they didn't, and in all 3 cases they sold more copies than any innovative RPG ever has (with perhaps the exception of Final Fantasy, but the innovation dissapeared a while into the series).
Spore, despite the critique of being a dumbed down 'cartoony game', achieved 1 million sales within its first month, and something around 25 million creations were logged on its editors. Will Wright even stated himself that he'd much rather have sales than review score. Modern Warfare 2, despite having a buggy, rushed and laggy multiplayer and a short singleplayer story, shipped out 7 million copies in one day.
I agree that games are 'dumbing down' towards graphics and adrenaline pumping action, but it's a process that cannot be reversed at this stage. The mainstream gaming bubble has inflated far beyond the dot com bubble, but no bubble lasts forever. It will be interesting to see what happens when said bubble bursts.
Unique upcoming indie space-based mining and combat game - Miner Wars.
http://www.minerwars.com/?aid=191
Yes movable plates wouldn't add much, but if the NPC's reacted to you trying to steal those plates... Hell, I'd have fun just watching all the WoW noobs get their asses kicked by the tavern keeper. If a game like Gothic has been doing this sort of thing for 10 years and Deus Ex had those sort of features so long ago, why would they be so hard to reproduce now?
But how much time does it take to code in one little gag thats entertaining for about a second? It all comes down to a simple question, "Will people NOT play our game if we leave out a feature that most people couldn't care less about..." Its like player housing. How many new players would player housing bring in and will anyone quit if we don't implement it? According to Blizzard and however they make their decisions, not enough to warrant the effort in adding it. Is it laziness or just business? I'm thinking business. Personally I couldn't care less about player housing and I certainly couldn't care less about stealing some plates. Would grand purpose does it serve? Not much. Making better animations, more weapons, more mobs or anything that could be considered actual content, is a much better use of that effort.
What easy to implement in a single player game is always harder in a MMO.
While you have made a reasonable attempt to take the notion ad absurdum, I haste to mention that my extensive monologue did not urge existing games to redefine themselves, indeed it would be grossly foolish for any released game to suddenly attend their resources to the movement of crockery.
What I am aiming at is future development, in fact the core concept of what a game is and can become. There are harmful stereotypes at the very root of modern game dev thought. A game identity crisis perhaps, in light of all the sudden possibilities, all the freedom. We need to stop and think of what a 'game' is and should be, of how different it is to other forms of entertainment and why. Interactive movies could come out tomorrow for all we know, books injected straight into your imagination! What of games ?
What should games strive to be ? Fun you say... what sort of fun, what makes them fun ? Aha....
Naturally, it is inevitable that game live in the shadow of their other, much older, more advanced and popular entertainment brothers and sisters. Of course games have long since resorted to copying them, imitating them as best they can. On the earlier consoles it was the cheesy movie-game spinoffs, you were Indiana Jones, The Terminator etc.
The time has come to break the bondage, for games to shatter the shackles and fly free, to realize their own path, destiny !
- Shijeer
"You can design and render the most amazing looking room in a game, photo realistic even, but what use is it to the players apart from the odd glance?
...
Take for example UO back in the day, people sitting in the tavern, beverages and food are placed on the table, a friendly game of chess is played, a pleasant tune is performed by someone in the corner. "
I find these two examples disturbingly similar. In the first the graphics are useless, in the second the activities are useless because they don't speak to a higher goal. They aren't games/patterns, but simply window-dressing.
"People even seem to react differently to new games. Instead of saying 'wow, check out all the stuff you can do' people say 'wow, look how awesome everything looks'."
Nonsense. Been around since C64/NES/SNES, and people are saying exactly the same stuff they always have.
I think it was around the SNES that I heard my first Gameplay vs. Graphics argument -- the very same argument you're making now.
"..and the joke is rather sad, that it's all just a little bit of history repeating." -History Repeating, Propellerheads w/ Shirley Bassey
"fun is when you do what you feel like doing, doing things 'your own way', hence why they are called 'games'."
You are confusing games and toys.
Games have rules. You may be able to play your own way to an extent, but there are constraints. It's a system with a pattern to it, and pattern discovery is the reason games are fun.
Toys don't have rules. You can do whatever you want with them.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Some of you don't understand the concept in it's entirety. Stealing plates would not be one little tidbit of code. It would be a world wide AI working on a world wide concept of "ownership". So not only would taking a plate in this one tavern be "theft", so it would be in any other tavern, so it would be taking a display sword from any weapons shop, and so would it be theft for taking something from a player's house or a guild's headquarters, or another player's corpse.
Then you get into the concept of law and punishment, and defending the rule of law throughout the land.
Once upon a time....
Great post OP! Agreed 200% that the modern MMO's lack a lot of the interactivity of older games, and the graphics take almost all the effort devs put into them. As you very well said, now that we have a lot of processing power for complex gameplay, they don't want to offer complex games. It's really asinine.
They continue making all MMO's linear as hell, some call it "themepark". I have recently played Allods beta, and while I enjoyed how combat works and the lore ( been a fan of the Allods series ), the incredible linearity of the game has ended ruining it for me, it's even more linear that WoW.....
I'm not interested in those incredibly linear MMORPG's that play the same as singleplayer ARPG's but dumbed down. I want an actual "world" that you can explore at your leisure, and have a lot of things to do to have fun in it along other players. Everquest had a LOT of zones to explore, now we have as linear as possible worlds, with just a few areas that we are forced to play in succession without choices and that's it.
I'm officially fed up with this genre of games. The only MMO that interest me right now is either Mythos or Torchlight MMO. I know I know, it's not a "true" MMORPG, but at least it will be a single-player ARPG not dumbed, but instead improved to play with others.
I hope that they will make more interesting MMORPG's in the future. The sense of "world" is lost for me as it is today.
Its not just one little gag though. Its a piece of technology that can be applied to the entire game world. Those plates are going to be in-game objects either way. They will need to be placed by level designers regardless. Some code-monkeys somewhere just need to assign some AI to be aware of it. As a professional code-monkey myself I see it as a solvable problem, that once solved, can be applied to the whole world and made a part of many an interesting quest.
But plates in a tavern is a silly example. Interaction is a big topic. Doors, traps, locks, factions, construction, environment damage, etc.. they all add interaction. They are also lacking in modern MMORPG's. DDO has proven that switches, levers, traps, secrets, puzzles, alarms and all manner of interaction is possible in a multiplayer environment. But why haven't any other games done this? Most avoid it because it might confuse someone or the console kiddies might find a break from action to be 'boring' like when they have to stop their game of Halo to do boring old homework. Fuck those kids. That is why we need a more mature niche MMOG that is innovative, intelligent, immersive, and complex. Something targeted for those with an IQ above 100 and a bit of free time on their hands.
But how much time does it take to code in one little gag thats entertaining for about a second? It all comes down to a simple question, "Will people NOT play our game if we leave out a feature that most people couldn't care less about..." Its like player housing. How many new players would player housing bring in and will anyone quit if we don't implement it? According to Blizzard and however they make their decisions, not enough to warrant the effort in adding it. Is it laziness or just business? I'm thinking business. Personally I couldn't care less about player housing and I certainly couldn't care less about stealing some plates. Would grand purpose does it serve? Not much. Making better animations, more weapons, more mobs or anything that could be considered actual content, is a much better use of that effort.
What easy to implement in a single player game is always harder in a MMO.
/agree
Those things can be nice for RP, but decent MMO's are loaded with emotes that can work for that, anyway. Smoking in LotRO, for example.
Character housing. Sure, it's nice, but it wouldn't sway me to buy/not buy a game.
Those plates could be done in the existing wow engine today. But personally, I just don't see the point to it.
It is primarily a question of scaling the interactivity up and making it dynamic. Stealing plates is just a frivolous gag but actually have the NPCs follow a system of ownership and laws give the game another layer.
In SWG player housing was cute but by itself it was just 'Barbie's Dream House'. However, you add the ability to turn a house into your own personal store and suddenly crafting and the economy have a new dimension. Then you add the ability to form houses into a player town which when grown becomes equal to an NPC hub and you change teh dynamics of how players operate in the game and how communities form.
It is primarily a question of scaling the interactivity up and making it dynamic. Stealing plates is just a frivolous gag but actually have the NPCs follow a system of ownership and laws give the game another layer.
In SWG player housing was cute but by itself it was just 'Barbie's Dream House'. However, you add the ability to turn a house into your own personal store and suddenly crafting and the economy have a new dimension. Then you add the ability to form houses into a player town which when grown becomes equal to an NPC hub and you change teh dynamics of how players operate in the game and how communities form.
You have correctly noted and grasped the main notion. That of 'interactivity' in a very broad sense indeed. While it is completely reasonable to argue that moving plates, for example, can be little more then a gag for the RP crowd, one must look beyond. All manner of interactive mechanics from item movement to player guild conquest can add a whole new dimension to the player experience, a new layer of 'good' complexity, open to the players if they wish to make use of it.
Indeed, it is no one thing, its how those seemingly irrelevant things change the gameplay for the better when taken a layer above, integrated into the core gameplay, the gravity gun, the portal gun, need I say more? In DDO, once you know that traps and hidden chambers are possible you cease to run in corridors like a headless chicken to the next mob,a la WoW, once you know that something is possible, it affects the way you play, for the better.
It is here that you become more 'connected' with what's happening on screen, the interaction is making -you- part of the story, quite literally 'involving' you. When interaction is scarce beyond holding the movement keys and pushing the numericals above, the game becomes monotonous, you are quite simply... disconnected... aware of yourself sitting there, mashing those buttons like a trained ape. This should -not- be considered the norm!
- Shijeer
I guess the real challenge will be convincing the masses that interactive plates can add some depth to a game.
Looking back at things like the Gothic series, Deus Ex, and TES that all had features like this I am trying to think about what made it worthwhile.
In Morrowind these interactive objects had additional uses. I would steal things like an Alembic so that once placed in my home could be used for alchemical experiments. I found an unoccupied warehouse to call my own and put all kinds of nice lighting and useful items into it. These were all stolen of course because I was playing as a bit of a thief. Just the fact that I could play that role with a purpose instead of being merely the backstabby melee dps class was in itself and interesting achievement.
In Deus Ex these interactive objects could be used to complete objectives and solve puzzles. Stacking crates to get over a laser security doorway was just one thing I remember doing.
Gothic had ownership. The player had to recognize objects of value, be aware of who and where the owner was. Stealing from people's homes was definitely a unique task and could be used to break up the MOB grind. That is one of the primary goals of interaction is to break up the constant combat focus of a game.
In CoX there were interactive objects that would be effected by physics adding a bit of visual flair to spells. Also these objects could be used with telekinesis as weapons. Probably not the best game example though since their interaction was so limited and mostly just graphic flair.
Most of those examples of interaction are from single player games, but there are examples in MMOG's as well. As I mentioned earlier, DDO has so many examples of interaction that it is leaving me a bit confused why someone would say interaction is either not possible in a MMOG or that its not worth the effort when the devs could be adding more or better MOB/gear grind.
Here is the perspective from someone who feels the opposite of what the OP is stating.
I don't have time to sit and socialize in a game because i would much rather be socializing with real people because it is way more rewarding on every level. If i am logged in i want to be playing the game and accomplishing a goal. The longer I spend not accomplishing my goals the more necessary socializing becomes to maintain interest. The more i have to socialize to maintain interest the less i actually want to play.
People socialized in older games because it was so mind numbingly hard to accomplish anything that they had to do something to fill the empty space in their playing time that the game was presenting them with. If we are both to have our way more than likely they will have to be two differentiated types of games.
The type of person who plays a game to be playing a game is pretty different from someone who likes to live in an online world. Currently developers are catering to the people who just want to play a game and so you are seeing a complete lack of an online world. None of this is a put down or a degradation of people who like online worlds and socializing online, just a different perspective.
I also realize i only touched on a small part of the OP in my post and am all for better gameplay elements that make it more fun i just probably wouldn't make use of a lot of the stuff that might be included that doesn't somehow advance my character.
LOL its funny because i think this very model for an mmo"R-P-G" is completelly the wrong way the industry should go. Just play a single player game if you dont want to socialize. MMORPG's are specifically made so that there are social events in the game and teamwork where you HAVE to socialize with others for rewards, the games encourage it and thats a good thing. (for example being in a guild and working out a raid).
You sound like the type of person who would join a guild, do a raid with them for an item and then quit the guild lol. Your perspective on how an mmorpg should be played in my opinion is just downright ignorant.
Go and play an arcade game, you obviously dont care about playing with other people or perhaps even care about talking to other people online.... by the way communication is one of the most important things in the real world just like communication is a huge part of an online world.
LOL its funny because i think this very model for an mmo"R-P-G" is completelly the wrong way the industry should go. Just play a single player game if you dont want to socialize. MMORPG's are specifically made so that there are social events in the game and teamwork where you HAVE to socialize with others for rewards, the games encourage it and thats a good thing. (for example being in a guild and working out a raid).
You sound like the type of person who would join a guild, do a raid with them for an item and then quit the guild lol. Your perspective on how an mmorpg should be played in my opinion is just downright ignorant.
Go and play an arcade game, you obviously dont care about playing with other people or perhaps even care about talking to other people online.... by the way communication is one of the most important things in the real world just like communication is a huge part of an online world.
My view on the issue of interaction and socialization is actually between the two extremes. I see little point in 'socializing for socializing sake' since to me that seems fake. It is just something frivolous to fill in the time like the 'stealing plates' example.
My goal in RPGs is to 'build' things. Usually it is building a character but it can also be building a trading empire, building a guild, building a player city or even building a society. Everything that does not help me with that is really unnecessary for me to enjoy the game. It might be cute or entertaining but it will not hold my interest for long. On the socialilizing front if you want to build a 'relationship' then I will gladly participate. If you want to just 'socialize' I might humor you but see not much value in that.
And is it often that your goals in-game align themselves so beautifully to the intentions of the developers? Let me ask you, is your game over when you finish all the endgame content, do you quit right then and there because you suddenly lack a goal, that new piece of loot perhaps?
Is it not the MMO in the MMORPG that makes this genre so much more, why folk look to it for the longer term, why they return to it time and time again despite playing and forgetting the latest 'flavor-of-the-month-next-gen-single-player-game'. Perhaps it is partly my fault I started with the whole 'tavern' example when I meant so much more, much of which has nothing to do with player2player interaction.
Ghmm that is a curious perspective you give us when it comes to socialization in older games. Harder to accomplish stuff eh? Well I guess that explains everything, the reason for there being less -meaningful- player2player interaction and RP must be because it became so easy to get everything in-game! I hear they've started handing out epics in WoW lately. Do I smell another rareness-color being added soon? Who has time for socializing when theres phat loot to be had, when the next level is just a few hours of grinding away!
But naturally, I respect your opinion and do understand not everyone plays an MMO because of its inherent 'MMOness', if that even makes sense. Certainly plausible that its 'just a good game'. It is precisely because of this variation in opinion and goal that I stressed 'choice' in my opening post. Making additional interaction, complexity, whatever a choice can only serve to enrich the game, the possibility being there is not going to 'ruin' the game for you, who knows, it might even make it better. I, for one, wish to partake, and I know there are a great many others like me.
This is not a PvP vs PvE type of discussion. More features in a game is good for everyone when done well and to argue that 'better to keep it dumb if you cant do it properly' is counter-productive. Sure more can go wrong, as in any kind of system design, but oh the possibilities, the progress !
- Shijeer
Interesting and I understand completely, but there is no reason why the frivolous act of stealing plates and the building of your power should be at odds. What if owning that plate and putting it into your home would allow you to create food that you would not otherwise be able to create? Just like that Alembic that I stole in Morrowind helped me create potions, these do not need to be useless items you're interacting with. Just like in real life, a plate serves a purpose and if you don't have one you'd see a real need to get one.
These are exactly the sorts of considerations that would go into an intelligent design. The frivolous stealing of a useless plate may be interesting to someone wanting to RP a thief, but to another person would seem like a useless task. A good design would make the mechanics useful to both play styles.
It is primarily a question of scaling the interactivity up and making it dynamic. Stealing plates is just a frivolous gag but actually have the NPCs follow a system of ownership and laws give the game another layer.
In SWG player housing was cute but by itself it was just 'Barbie's Dream House'. However, you add the ability to turn a house into your own personal store and suddenly crafting and the economy have a new dimension. Then you add the ability to form houses into a player town which when grown becomes equal to an NPC hub and you change teh dynamics of how players operate in the game and how communities form.
You have correctly noted and grasped the main notion. That of 'interactivity' in a very broad sense indeed. While it is completely reasonable to argue that moving plates, for example, can be little more then a gag for the RP crowd, one must look beyond. All manner of interactive mechanics from item movement to player guild conquest can add a whole new dimension to the player experience, a new layer of 'good' complexity, open to the players if they wish to make use of it.
Indeed, it is no one thing, its how those seemingly irrelevant things change the gameplay for the better when taken a layer above, integrated into the core gameplay, the gravity gun, the portal gun, need I say more? In DDO, once you know that traps and hidden chambers are possible you cease to run in corridors like a headless chicken to the next mob,a la WoW, once you know that something is possible, it affects the way you play, for the better.
It is here that you become more 'connected' with what's happening on screen, the interaction is making -you- part of the story, quite literally 'involving' you. When interaction is scarce beyond holding the movement keys and pushing the numericals above, the game becomes monotonous, you are quite simply... disconnected... aware of yourself sitting there, mashing those buttons like a trained ape. This should -not- be considered the norm!
- Shijeer
Yes, it's building foundations, layer on layer. Or more to the point, separate foundations that interact on each other, forming layers.
What happens when you do this is that for every "foundation" that interacts with other "foundations" to form greater layers of depth, you are multiplying, not adding. It's not 1+1+1, it's 1x3+1x3+1x3. And the more of such foundations the more the numbers multiply. You can get incredible depth in a game world this way.
But such a world is not very well suited to today's level grinds, where a maxed character is a god to those below, and a god's god to newbies.
Once upon a time....
There is quite a difference between a shiny room and a functional room. A shiny room you can look at. A functional room increases the number of things you can do in it, it allows you to look at it in many different ways, it makes it seem more alive. These things add greatly to a game, but I can understand where you're coming from, static worlds where nothing ever changes. You've never experienced it, so I can understand why you don't understand it.
There is quite a difference between a shiny room and a functional room. A shiny room you can look at. A functional room increases the number of things you can do in it, it allows you to look at it in many different ways, it makes it seem more alive. These things add greatly to a game, but I can understand where you're coming from, static worlds where nothing ever changes. You've never experienced it, so I can understand why you don't understand it.
Yes, and I want my high constitution to make "saves" vs. drunkenness the same as it does vs. poison.
And those Dwarves should be able to drink all night and not have their behavior change, even if it is already much like a "happy" drinker.
See, it's not hard to turn existing code into world interaction features.
Once upon a time....
Developers now have zero imagination and this is great for the 80% of the population with zero imagination. We have to wait for a company with brains that create something amazing. Will happen sooner or later.