I am a proud scotian. I however am ashamed that according to his profile Doubter is in NS as well. As for his IP breaks, im pretty sure that everyone has already torped that. I can wait another 7 days
The title of the thread was a little provocative but the information contains is pretty important.... regardless of what some of you fanboys say, people are going to go into a "Trek" MMO with certain common pre-concieved expectations of what they are going to be able to do. STO IS going to disappoint on some of those expectations. We can argue all day about whether or not it's a "neccesary concession for the medium", or would "make for a poor game dynamic", etc. Frankly those points are irrelevent in terms of this thread. It's both FAIR and USEFULL to be upfront with perspective players about what expectations the game may/may not break. That's why a thread like this IS pretty important.
It is IMPORTANT/USEFULL to set the expectations for a potential player who may be a Trek fan...but not familiar with Cryptics implimentation of Trek what things that they expect MAY/MAY NOT be in the game. For some...those things may not be any big deal....for others it MAY be a deal breaker. In either case it's important for the player to get accurate information so they can make the decision for themselves......and it's really darn useful to have that information gathered together in a single place so it is easy to find and reference.
1) You can't pretend that there aren't going to be ALOT of Trek fans out there that are going to want to play a character like Scotty or Bones or Data or Worf or LaForge, etc. The fact that the option isn't available to do so in STO IS important information.
2) There are ALOT of Trek fans out there who are going to expect to be able to play with other crew members aboard a starship. Interaction among the different crew members aboard a ship was a MAJOR FOCUS in pretty much all the series. If you don't think so then you must have been watching a different show then I was. The fact that this is not an option in STO is pretty important information.
3) Death and the loss/destruction of ships was part of the genre of the shows. Since it's a game, people might expect certain concessions here....but there are alot of different ways to slice this apple. How specificaly STO chose to impliment this IS important information and certainly not something that would be entirely predictable to the player.
4) No interiors of your own ship aside from the bridge is an important piece of information for perspective players. ALOT of the action in alot of the shows did take place in other areas of the ship....players ARE going to be able to expect to see/visit those areas. The fact that they can't in STO is important information for players to have.
5) The fact that each ship is controled entirely by a single player is important information. In the shows, ships were flown by multiple individuals working together. People are not neccesarly going to assume that a game WON'T impliment that functionality.
6) In space, extending protective shields and "repair beams" were either unheard of or rare occurances frought with complications. The fact that they are going to be routiene activities in STO is important information for the player to have.
7) Although Trek ships did fight like capital vessels in the series. They most certainly did have full attitude control (pitch, yaw and roll).... people WILL pretty much expect that from a space game. The fact that it's not in STO IS important information.
8) In the shows when people were seriously injured...they were treated and taken to sick bay.....there was no ranged healing with medical tricorders. Whether or not it's a good/bad game mechanic....people are going to expect injuries to be handled like they were in the series.
I could go on....the point is...no one is trying to tell you that ANY of the above (or anything else here) has to break the lore FOR YOU...... but to deny that it will for others is just short-sighted. Different people have different perspectives of what things are important/central to a particular genre. No one is trying to tell you what yours must be.... however there are alot of things that are going to be pretty common expectations for many fans.... it's important to note when the game bends/breaks them.
Originally posted by jaxsundane You all realize the person with the most authority to the IP has given Cryptic permission to work with the IP.
This. I would even go so far as to say that since Paramount or Universal or whomever owns the ST IP has licensed Cryptic to run with it, that anything Cryptic does now is CANON. Learn to live with it or move on, Treknerd.
That's really what the TrekNerds are really raging about and they haven't fully realized it yet. Since the IP has been licensed to Cryptic this game will enter into CANON status. Course they will later emorage about it being expanded universe stuff like the Star Wars nerds did on the SOE forums in SWG just to calm themselves down.
Stealth Edit: I grew up with Star Trek and Special Edition pre-ordered. Hopefully the game will be fun.
For the sake of Trek fans interested in trying out this game, here is a list of known ways the game breaks the spirit and design of the Trek IP. 1 - You can only be the Captain. You can't play the navigator. You can't play the chief Engineer. You can't play the science officer. There is one class - captain, with three possible 'builds' -tactical, science, engineering. This also mean that captains run the entire ship on their own. Players can't form a crew and run a ship together.
2 - Captains own every ship they unlock. Yep. Don't know where Picard is keeping the 'Stargazer', but he can park the Enterprise and run around on his old ship if he likes. 3 - Captains and their ships are immortal. Don't worry about battles anymore, because you can't die, and your ships can't be destroyed. 4 - Ground combat features personal shields and ranged healing abilities (spells). Standard fantasy MMORPG combat with a Trek skin. Feel free to add more examples.
Of these, only one really bugs me, and that halfway. Well, two, each halfway.
1)I dislike this design choice, but I understand why it was made. So that's 1/2.
2)Meh. This is an MMORPG, not a Star Trek Simulator. Remember in B5 when Sheridan took command of the Agememnon again? It's like that. As someone else noted, if Picard wanted to command the Stargazer again, Starfleet would probably let him.
3)See 2. It's an MMORPG. By this logic, just about every IP-based game without permadeath "breaks the IP", including SWG, LOTR, Conan, Warhammer (originally, Slayers weren't in because they want to die,and in WH, you can't die, but demand for the class was so great they went in and the Hammerer was dropped.)
4)Personal shields were featured in ST:TAS, quite prominently. Ranged healing, though... that really DOES bug me. It's probably the one truly legitimate gripe on your list.
(BTW, I started watching Trek in 1973, when I was 8, and the very first episode I saw was "City On The Edge Of Forever". I still have my 1975 printing of the Star Fleet Technical Manual. About the only thing I can't claim is never seeing it during its original airing. (Like I'd remember if I did....) So let's skip the inevitable part where you insist I'm not a "real" Trekkie. )[4]
In terms of nerdrage over the IP, I'm more likely to get my undies in a twist over the "Star Trek is all about pewpewpew phaser battles!"[1] spin they're putting on it. OTOH, if you told me to design a game about forging intergalactic peace and seducing women with beehive hairdos, AND make it worth a 50-100 million dollar investment, I'd be hard pressed to do it, UNLESS I was allowed to make an "AO" title and focus purely on seducing green Orion slave girls. But I doubt that will happen.
Mmmm.... green Orion slave girls....
[1]Of course, I've heard many people on MMORPG.com insist that that's EXACTLY what a Star Trek game should be about and whine that it doesn't have FFA PVP....[2]
[2]Y'know, if the game works, in 2-3 years they could do a Mirror Universe full PVP/full loot version. [3]
[3]re:Mirror Universe -- Hoshi in the "Imperial" uniform... mmmm.... I'll be in my bunk.
[4]So, instead, we'll go to "Well, you're such a drooling nerd fanboy you'd buy my shit if it had a Star Trek logo on it!", instead. Ah, MMORPG.com . How I... am amused... by thee. Anything but actually debate facts.
You know, I was waiting for the nerd rage threads to start on Star Trek -- About how it breaks the IP of the show, about how 'this' isn't "correct" or 'that' is "out-of-the-time-continuum", etc.
This has got to be one of the toughest MMOs to make in history, simply because of the sheer number of nutjobs out there who will nickpick, bash, and never be happy with a Star Trek product unless them, themselves, are wearing the captain's uniform in real life and ordering people around with phasers.
Please, for the sake of others who actually just want to play a fun game that is based upon a Star Trek THEME: Give it a friggin rest or just rage quietly on the inside for our sake. Thanks.
The wonderful thing about internet forums is that you are actually free to read as many or as few threads as you like. For threads that you think might annoy/frustrate you....you can skip over them entirely. I believe there is even some sort of "ignore" function on most forums to filter out posters you find annoying.
If reading negative/critical posts/threads by Doubter (or me) annoys you....you have the solution at your finger-tips.
The title of this forum in not "STO Fan Discussion"..... it's "Star Trek Online - General Discussion". That means criticisms or negative discussions of STO are fair grounds.... as are positive posts.
Doubter is definately NOT a troll (as far as I can tell). I haven't seen him do anything which is Trollish. What he seems to be is very critical/negative about STO.... that does NOT make him a troll....unless you believe he honestly doesn't hold those opinions and is just posting to get a rise out of folks.
Honestly, I wish he HAD written that article... I would have given the opportunity.
Regardless...disagreeing with some-one is not being a troll....nor is holding a strongly negative opinion of a game.
Lets just accept the fact that people will have and voice strongly different opinions when it comes to STO.
Note that while I REALLY don't like the direction Cryptic decided to go with the game..... I do hope it's not a crappy game and that some folks here will be able to enjoy it for a good long time.
What I do take issue here is with some folks saying "Trek fans won't have any issue's with X because I'm a Trek fan and I don't have any issues with X"...... or "Cryptic decided to go X route because it was the only route which is workable/fun for a game....there is no other way you could do it".
Let's be honest, there are a million different ways a Developer could have chosen to slice this apple. Cryptic made certain decisions which were bound to royaly PO some people and please others.
Nothing wrong with the people that are dissapointed with some of the decisions made engaging in an intellectual discussion of those decisions and some of thier downsides. Furthermore for all the claims that certain posters will automaticaly have something negative to say about STO regardless of the subject....I can point out names that seem to automaticaly leap to STO's defence regardless of the subject.
Lets not pretend there is no pot & kettle dynamic going on here.
Let's be honest, there are a million different ways a Developer could have chosen to slice this apple. Cryptic made certain decisions which were bound to royaly PO some people and please others.
Well, here's the rub.
Given the kind of investment made in this property, you have to not just make a game, but a profitable game, one which can pay off a 50-150M investment (generally accepted cost of an A-list MMO these days), and continue to generate enough revenue to keep the game running and development active for 5-10 yeats. This circumscribes the potential design space *a lot*.
It's worth noting Cryptic seems to be partially imitating the only successful space-based MMORPG out there -- EVE Online, one of only a small handful of games still growing.
Oh goodie the MMO_Doubter daily "I don't like this game design" post is out! It is true my memory isn't what it once was, but I doubt anyone has forgotten the last few hundred complaint posts you posted in the previous few months Doubter! At one time i actually cared (very little to be truthful) that they didn't have some of the stuff you wanted in the game (although most of it is pure rubbish in my opinion), but now I'm numbed by the total volumes of gibberish you have posted (very truthful). Give it a rest and move on to the next game you want to trash already, maybe that group won't figure your a troll for the first few months!
Those that agree with Doubter at least have to agree that Cryptic was up front with what they were going to include or not include. So most of his objections make little sense as the design has always been going in another direction. As for whether or not the game is true to the IP, you can find much more stuff that does agree to the spirit of the IP than the 4 negatives he tried to use in my opinion. If the game is fun to play people will come, if not they won't. Simple as that period!
Those that agree with Doubter at least have to agree that Cryptic was up front with what they were going to include or not include.
Sometimes. Other times they'd do things like talk about how the Klingons were going to be a complete faction again and again until the last few months where they suddenly, though subtly changed their tune and just started talking about pvp (until the December revelation where they said Klingons would basically have zero PvE content for the sole reason they didn't have time to do it properly). Really Cryptic has done a bit of both...largely the stuff they've been disingenuous about are things that look like they've had to cut back on because they don't have enough time to do them properly (such as crafting, Klingons, non-combat, etc).
Originally posted by jaxsundane You all realize the person with the most authority to the IP has given Cryptic permission to work with the IP.
This. I would even go so far as to say that since Paramount or Universal or whomever owns the ST IP has licensed Cryptic to run with it, that anything Cryptic does now is CANON. Learn to live with it or move on, Treknerd.
That's really what the TrekNerds are really raging about and they haven't fully realized it yet. Since the IP has been licensed to Cryptic this game will enter into CANON status. Course they will later emorage about it being expanded universe stuff like the Star Wars nerds did on the SOE forums in SWG just to calm themselves down.
That's a ridiculous charge since only the shows and movies are proper canon...an MMO certainly is not (though, neither are even the novels canon, properly speaking). No one is upset that anything Cryptic does is canon, people are upset because the game looks rushed and it needlessly has numerous IP-breaking elements such as ships and people with healing beams and a Federation focused on war and conflict as opposed to non-violent resolution.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Doubter is definately NOT a troll (as far as I can tell). I haven't seen him do anything which is Trollish. What he seems to be is very critical/negative about STO.... that does NOT make him a troll....unless you believe he honestly doesn't hold those opinions and is just posting to get a rise out of folks. I guess we all have different interpretations of what constitutes trollish behavior. Regardless...disagreeing with some-one is not being a troll....nor is holding a strongly negative opinion of a game. Lets just accept the fact that people will have and voice strongly different opinions when it comes to STO. Sure thing, and that sentiment goes both ways. Disagreeing with those that hold negative views of the game doesn't make one a blind fanboy or Cryptic plant. But that sure doesn't stop posters like MMO Doubter from saying that is so. What I do take issue here is with some folks saying "Trek fans won't have any issue's with X because I'm a Trek fan and I don't have any issues with X"...... or "Cryptic decided to go X route because it was the only route which is workable/fun for a game....there is no other way you could do it". You're going to have to point me in the direction of who has said that because I must have missed it.The only "all knowing" posters of all things trek I have seen are those that say " This game isn't Star Trek because I don't like it." such as the OP. Let's be honest, there are a million different ways a Developer could have chosen to slice this apple. Cryptic made certain decisions which were bound to royaly PO some people and please others. Nothing wrong with the people that are dissapointed with some of the decisions made engaging in an intellectual discussion of those decisions and some of thier downsides. Furthermore for all the claims that certain posters will automaticaly have something negative to say about STO regardless of the subject....I can point out names that seem to automaticaly leap to STO's defence regardless of the subject. As can I. But the issue isn't trying to silence naysayers or who is on what team. The issue is starting a misleading thread and having extremely weak strawman arguments as justification.When you do that on a consistent basis then you have the right to have your motivations questioned.Sure, you have as much right to piss and moan all day long about the game with whatever weak argument you want, but don't get angry when people start calling that tactic for what it is. Which by the way many have done and it's not all just people who like this game.
Let's be honest, there are a million different ways a Developer could have chosen to slice this apple. Cryptic made certain decisions which were bound to royaly PO some people and please others.
Well, here's the rub.
Given the kind of investment made in this property, you have to not just make a game, but a profitable game, one which can pay off a 50-150M investment (generally accepted cost of an A-list MMO these days), and continue to generate enough revenue to keep the game running and development active for 5-10 yeats. This circumscribes the potential design space *a lot*.
It's worth noting Cryptic seems to be partially imitating the only successful space-based MMORPG out there -- EVE Online, one of only a small handful of games still growing.
First, I don't see how Cryptic is imitating Eve at all (not that I think they should). Also, the design is not nearly as limited as you think it is. There are MMOs without combat or ones where all challenges are done via puzzles and both are successful. If the gaming industry demonstrates anything, it is that innovative gameplay is generally rewarded even if it means you aren't blasting things to bits. Heck, the main problem with most MMOs since WoW (besides a tendency towards being rushed) is that they have too little innovation. I personally see no reason to think a properly done Star Trek MMO with optional player crews, lots of challenges with many non-violent ways to resolve them (at least for the Feds and not to say there wouldn't be combat as well), and generally respecting the IP, making concessions only as needed, wouldn't do well.
Anyhow, like I said above, if there is one thing the gaming industry teaches, it is that innovation is largely rewarded by players, so designing a game by trying to avoid being innovating is generally a bad idea -- it just makes your product blend in with the masses more than anything else.
No world pvp, only one race to choose from, world is as instanced as the king of instancing age of conan, no 3D damage theres only 4 sides of damage in ships, everything is instanced..no way we can go out in the galaxy and find enemy ships from player enemy factions, did i mention the game is super instanced???
Its a game made in a rush, with a few dollars cost wise...with the basic of the basic of the basic features to make it playable..
A real sto game has a world like eve..with instanced planets with few more instancing as needed...
people are going to go into a "Trek" MMO with certain common pre-concieved expectations of what they are going to be able to do..... It's both FAIR and USEFULL to be upfront with perspective players about what expectations the game may/may not break. The problem is those that go into the game with pre-conieved notions have either been living under a rock or refuse to accept what the GAME will be like. This is just the same as those on the SW:TOR posting 'I hope there's not a lot of Jedi in the game' or 'I hope Jedi isn't a starting profession'. EXXXSCUE MEEEE? It is IMPORTANT/USEFULL to set the expectations for a potential player who may be a Trek fan...but not familiar with Cryptics implimentation of Trek what things that they expect MAY/MAY NOT be in the game. OK True, but I'd have to think that those people probably don't come here and while most of the points brought up won't be on the game box, all advertisements I've seen play up the YOU BE THE CAPTAIN! So that one's covered. 1) Fan's Yes, Gamer's maybe not so much 2) I'll agree, heck I'd even like to group up from time to time on the same ship, even if it's just with my kids 3) True 4) True, kind of goes along with #2 5) & 6) Same as #1 7) 100% agree 8) Same as #1
Straight non-game playing fans most likely don't even know sites like this exist. You throw up a video booth at some ST convention and play the various trailers Cryptic has put out and you'd probably get a bunch of ohhh's and ahhh's. They won't know that any game can do space manuver's and that Cryptic has shorted them on it. They'd probably key on the items gamers just take for granted like the bridge being oversized. We may know it's for collision detection purposes but they won't.
So yea, throwing this info out for our fellow gamers, a few months ago, was good, but to keep hacking at it in the name of the 'fan' now isn't.
Let's be honest, there are a million different ways a Developer could have chosen to slice this apple. Cryptic made certain decisions which were bound to royaly PO some people and please others.
Well, here's the rub.
Given the kind of investment made in this property, you have to not just make a game, but a profitable game, one which can pay off a 50-150M investment (generally accepted cost of an A-list MMO these days), and continue to generate enough revenue to keep the game running and development active for 5-10 yeats. This circumscribes the potential design space *a lot*.
It's worth noting Cryptic seems to be partially imitating the only successful space-based MMORPG out there -- EVE Online, one of only a small handful of games still growing.
Not so much.....plus I'd be surprised if Cryptic's budget for STO topped 30 Mil.... They have a habit of producing games with a low initial investment.....reusing the CO engine and a 2 year Dev cycle would hunt at that for STO.
There are 2 ways companies can succeed in already established markets....
1) They can imitate what their competition already does just find a way to execute far better (not so easy) whether on price or quality.
2) They can do something significantly different from what their competition is doing (also not so easy).... thus they have a major product differentiator to attract customers to their product rather then the competitions.....and possibly even pull in whole new market segments.
Don't do either and you are just burger joint #413 on a street that already has 412 other burger joints doing the exact same thing. Following formula's in a highly saturated market is often not a good recipie for success...especialy in the current market.
Regardless.... there WERE a million different ways a Developer could have gone with this game.... and gone proffitably. Cryptic WAS a little bit self-limited by the resources/time they chose (or were able) to devote to the project.... That doesn't mean a developer couldn't have been quite successfull sinking a full AAA budget and schedule in the game....that just means you need a longer (and therefore bigger) ROI. Even with the limitations of Cryptics budget....there was considerably leeway to impliment/design differently then they did. The idea that the choices they made were the only way they could have gone....and be proffitable (which remains yet to be seen, I remind you) is complete and utter bunk....even with thier existing resource constraints.
Will the game they end up making turn out to be crappy.....no idea yet...... could they have made a different game....absolutely.
I guess nobody knows Star Trek better than you specifically, though, right?
Nobody posting in this thread, anyway.
This makes me laugh in many, many ways.
So after much gnashing of teeth by few, we've basically come to the conclusion that these claims really aren't IP breaking. As others have said, a lot of the hate being thrown around is the standard angry trek rage that gets thrown about when ANYTHING new trek comes out. Some people said Voyager wasn't Trek, some people said Enterprise wasn't Trek, heck I'm sure some people even said DS9 and TNG weren't Trek. Everyone has a different idea of "what is Trek".
As far as official canon. The shows and movies are canon, as is STO. The books and comics are considered "less canon" which essentially means they can be used or ignored as desired. Honestly I think setting STO 30 years in the future was the best decision they could have made (and consequently one of SWGs biggest mistakes). You can't set an MMO during an established canon timeperiod, because it doesn't leave you any control of the IP. With the blessing of CBS (every step of the way apparently), and having set the game 30 years past the latest canon we have, Cryptic has allowed themselves full control over what happens with the IP, including any new things they decide to add or modify.
Honestly, considering the multitude of challenges facing any potential Trek MMO developer, I really think we're getting the best we could have hoped for, as far as making the most people happy.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
That's a ridiculous charge since only the shows and movies are proper canon...
Not true with all works, since J.M.S. specifically said and set up all B5 books as part of the official canon of the B5 universe.
Lucus seems to have gone the way you say, who knows what ST will be.
Star Trek has traditionally only had the shows and movies as canon much more than Star Wars. With Star Wars, books and such are an official level of canon (Lucas can override that level or a movie, but pretty much nothing else and they try to avoid even that). Star Trek is far different and novels, games, and the like are regularly ignored when it comes to future episodes and movies. Now certainly a future show might decide to acknowledge certain events in a game or novel as canon (this is almost never done, but it is possible), but there is no real reason to think this would ever be the case and even less of a reason to think it would be the case for an MMO. Of course, Star Trek even in the shows has not done a great job of keeping track of canon. Chocrane, the Eugeneics War, and World War III have many conflicting accounts...originally the Warp Drive was invented before the Earth was devastated (so humankind had already spread to the stars before World War III), but obviously First Contact ignored this -- and there are plenty of other examples.
correct me if I am wrong but pretty much every race is there to be chosen as a playable Federation race (I think Kilingon and Romulan excluded but I could be wrong). However if you want to create your own race or create a hybrid you can....just as you describe
Oh really! That's cool then cause it gives more variety for everyone.
I just hope they won't mess up the balancing when it comes to selfcreated races. ^_^
Thanks a lot for the clarification! I'm looking forward to the game.
correct me if I am wrong but pretty much every race is there to be chosen as a playable Federation race (I think Kilingon and Romulan excluded but I could be wrong). However if you want to create your own race or create a hybrid you can....just as you describe
Oh really! That's cool then cause it gives more variety for everyone.
I just hope they won't mess up the balancing when it comes to selfcreated races. ^_^
Thanks a lot for the clarification! I'm looking forward to the game.
I posted Dana's review a few posts ago of the character creator
I could care less about Trek "canon". Honestly any sci-fi show that has time travel as a plausible solution to problems cannot actually have a “canon” about anything. Time travel makes any time line relative and subjective, since anyone at any time could screw things up easily. Time travel works in TV shows as a plot hook, but as far as a consistent universe is concerned it makes it a joke. So trek is not about a chronological "canon”, it cannot be by virtue of its own ill advised plot usage.
Nevertheless, there is, at least for me, a Trek feel that is more important than any of these specifics that people are getting hung up on. I am a fan of TOS and a little of the Next Gen stuff. DS9 has some good stuff, but after that show I pretty much lost interest in the whole thing until the new movie came out. For me, Trek is about adventure in space. Exploration of the unknown and yes combat with some new villain or faction. Kirk was never afraid to let phasers fly when needed, and there are lots of examples of war or the threat of war in the shows, I don’t have problem with combat, I think Star Trek space combat is unique and if Cryptic gets it right could be a very rewarding Trek experience. The most popular, and the best imho Trek movie was the Wrath of Khan, and it was all about space combat. What’s important here is not that STO has space combat, but more about how space combat feels and reacts in a Trek "way"?
There has got to be thinking involved in space combat. Strategy and tactics must be king. You should be able to outmaneuver someone by thinking alone, and not by clicking your mouse faster or having the latest “gear”. If they nail this, they have created a Trek experience, at least for me. I would like to see player crews, because that’s part of the feel of the shows, but I can understand how it would be difficult to implement without spending a lot of time in development and testing. Making everyone a captain is the easy route out, it’s just easier to implement. Still, I think they should make the bigger more powerful vessels player crewed. This would limit their numbers since they can only be played by organized groups, and it would allow them to test such a dynamic without ruining the rest of the game for everyone else. The last thing I want to see in end game is hundreds of Sovereigns because everyone is ranked to that level. How silly that would be.
STO looks good, but they need to nail a few things to keep this customer happy. I am afraid they are going miss this in favor of trying to appeal to investors instead of their customers. (and really people this is capitalism its not about you the customer, it never has been, EVER, that’s a fairy tale corporations use to make you think they have your best interests in mind, they don’t, and they never will until the system is changed.) Here as my personal list of things I want from STO:
1) PvP and space combat in general must be a thinking man’s game
2) PvP must mean something, have some sort of effect on the overall story other than leader boards
3) Space must feel BIG. But it also must feel like: Your affecting what happens in the world by your actions. Instances destroy this. Instances in some cases are fine, I understand it solves lots of problems, but understand that making people have cookie cutter experiences makes them less invested in the game world. Less investment in the game world means= they are gone in three months.
4) Some random, or dev generated “threats to the galaxy” or other type events. I want to feel like I’m in a universe that stuff is going on. Static instance based quests might be fun and nice on first tries, but in the long run it makes for a boring universe. (DDO everyone?) Give us some verity. Content. Content. Content.
5) If you don’t have the resources to produce tons of content, let the players do it for you. How many Trek fans will be playing this game?? Use them! I could come up with a dozen adventures off the top of my head. How many more are like me out there??
6) I would really like to see a little more open world than seems to be the case. Allow people to play pirates and merchants, maybe in an expansion? This would also give incentives for PvP, and add more dynamics to the universe.
7) Give the Klingons some content for god’s sake!! IF not PvE, at least give them ORvR or something!
8) I can’t stress this more, this is this most un-Trek thing I have noticed about STO. GIVE ME BATTLE DAMAGE!! I want to see my ship scarred and battered! I want to see how badly I have destroyed someone’s hull, physically. I know this is likely to never happen, but it’s so much a part of Star Trek space battle for me.
I have more, but if they get those, I’d be pretty happy with STO. Oh and get rid of those silly trails behind the engines, a computer should be able to tell you how fast a ship is going.
This makes me laugh in many, many ways. So after much gnashing of teeth by few, we've basically come to the conclusion that these claims really aren't IP breaking. As others have said, a lot of the hate being thrown around is the standard angry trek rage that gets thrown about when ANYTHING new trek comes out. Some people said Voyager wasn't Trek, some people said Enterprise wasn't Trek, heck I'm sure some people even said DS9 and TNG weren't Trek. Everyone has a different idea of "what is Trek". Trek fans havve been upset ever since the first movie came out. As a matter of fact, the movies and later shows violated canon constantly and there was always a group of naysayers there ready to threaten a boycott and trash it every chance they got.And yes, when TNG came out there were many angry fans that said "How can you have an enterprise without Kirk and Spock?" "How can you have a bald headed captain?" etc.etc.etc. This is just the first time I've seen it in a game, which is just beyond ridiculous when you consider the many popular canon breaking games that have come out before. I've never understood all the hate and anger over a video game or anything fictitious to begin with, but that's a whole other argument. As far as official canon. The shows and movies are canon, as is STO. The books and comics are considered "less canon" which essentially means they can be used or ignored as desired. Honestly I think setting STO 30 years in the future was the best decision they could have made (and consequently one of SWGs biggest mistakes). You can't set an MMO during an established canon timeperiod, because it doesn't leave you any control of the IP. With the blessing of CBS (every step of the way apparently), and having set the game 30 years past the latest canon we have, Cryptic has allowed themselves full control over what happens with the IP, including any new things they decide to add or modify. Got to disagree with STO being canon. As a rule,cartoons, books and video games are never considered canon. Can't tell you how many arguments have been started over the cartoon series even though rodenberry himself said it wasn't a part of the official canon. But I do agree that setting it 30 years after Nemesis frees the developers up to do whatever they want with the franchise without breaking canon. If this was set in TOS timeframe with some of what we've seen, then the canon violation argument would be more credible. Honestly, considering the multitude of challenges facing any potential Trek MMO developer, I really think we're getting the best we could have hoped for, as far as making the most people happy.
I'm not sure about it being the best we could have hoped for, because I myself would prefer more options for people who don't care about playing the Federation. I think the non-combat social crowd that makes up a decent percentage of gamers would love to play a game set in the Star Trek universe where they are a Ferengi or some other alien that sells merchandise or runs a shop or bar of some kind. There are many possibilities for this game to go and if Cryptic is smart they will implement something to thatt effect later on.
I guess nobody knows Star Trek better than you specifically, though, right?
Nobody posting in this thread, anyway.
This makes me laugh in many, many ways. Hopefully one of those ways is a happy, fun way, for I mean no ill will.
< Snip. Let's agree to disagree. KTanner addressed the canon issue nicely >
Honestly, considering the multitude of challenges facing any potential Trek MMO developer, I really think we're getting the best we could have hoped for, as far as making the most people happy. I reluctantly agree with this, though I believe this "best" is due to developer laziness and desire for fast cash and not any real love or understanding of the IP.
Even if it had elfs and ewoks it would be close enough to Star Trek for me. I'm not looking for an online Star Trek life style. Just wanna log in, fly my cruiser and blow up the bad guys. TBH, I hope it does get elfs, cause they'd make fun target practice. Guess Vulcans will have to do for now.
Comments
a fact that everybody ignores.
I am a proud scotian. I however am ashamed that according to his profile Doubter is in NS as well. As for his IP breaks, im pretty sure that everyone has already torped that. I can wait another 7 days
The title of the thread was a little provocative but the information contains is pretty important.... regardless of what some of you fanboys say, people are going to go into a "Trek" MMO with certain common pre-concieved expectations of what they are going to be able to do. STO IS going to disappoint on some of those expectations. We can argue all day about whether or not it's a "neccesary concession for the medium", or would "make for a poor game dynamic", etc. Frankly those points are irrelevent in terms of this thread. It's both FAIR and USEFULL to be upfront with perspective players about what expectations the game may/may not break. That's why a thread like this IS pretty important.
It is IMPORTANT/USEFULL to set the expectations for a potential player who may be a Trek fan...but not familiar with Cryptics implimentation of Trek what things that they expect MAY/MAY NOT be in the game. For some...those things may not be any big deal....for others it MAY be a deal breaker. In either case it's important for the player to get accurate information so they can make the decision for themselves......and it's really darn useful to have that information gathered together in a single place so it is easy to find and reference.
1) You can't pretend that there aren't going to be ALOT of Trek fans out there that are going to want to play a character like Scotty or Bones or Data or Worf or LaForge, etc. The fact that the option isn't available to do so in STO IS important information.
2) There are ALOT of Trek fans out there who are going to expect to be able to play with other crew members aboard a starship. Interaction among the different crew members aboard a ship was a MAJOR FOCUS in pretty much all the series. If you don't think so then you must have been watching a different show then I was. The fact that this is not an option in STO is pretty important information.
3) Death and the loss/destruction of ships was part of the genre of the shows. Since it's a game, people might expect certain concessions here....but there are alot of different ways to slice this apple. How specificaly STO chose to impliment this IS important information and certainly not something that would be entirely predictable to the player.
4) No interiors of your own ship aside from the bridge is an important piece of information for perspective players. ALOT of the action in alot of the shows did take place in other areas of the ship....players ARE going to be able to expect to see/visit those areas. The fact that they can't in STO is important information for players to have.
5) The fact that each ship is controled entirely by a single player is important information. In the shows, ships were flown by multiple individuals working together. People are not neccesarly going to assume that a game WON'T impliment that functionality.
6) In space, extending protective shields and "repair beams" were either unheard of or rare occurances frought with complications. The fact that they are going to be routiene activities in STO is important information for the player to have.
7) Although Trek ships did fight like capital vessels in the series. They most certainly did have full attitude control (pitch, yaw and roll).... people WILL pretty much expect that from a space game. The fact that it's not in STO IS important information.
8) In the shows when people were seriously injured...they were treated and taken to sick bay.....there was no ranged healing with medical tricorders. Whether or not it's a good/bad game mechanic....people are going to expect injuries to be handled like they were in the series.
I could go on....the point is...no one is trying to tell you that ANY of the above (or anything else here) has to break the lore FOR YOU...... but to deny that it will for others is just short-sighted. Different people have different perspectives of what things are important/central to a particular genre. No one is trying to tell you what yours must be.... however there are alot of things that are going to be pretty common expectations for many fans.... it's important to note when the game bends/breaks them.
This. I would even go so far as to say that since Paramount or Universal or whomever owns the ST IP has licensed Cryptic to run with it, that anything Cryptic does now is CANON. Learn to live with it or move on, Treknerd.
That's really what the TrekNerds are really raging about and they haven't fully realized it yet. Since the IP has been licensed to Cryptic this game will enter into CANON status. Course they will later emorage about it being expanded universe stuff like the Star Wars nerds did on the SOE forums in SWG just to calm themselves down.
Stealth Edit: I grew up with Star Trek and Special Edition pre-ordered. Hopefully the game will be fun.
Of these, only one really bugs me, and that halfway. Well, two, each halfway.
1)I dislike this design choice, but I understand why it was made. So that's 1/2.
2)Meh. This is an MMORPG, not a Star Trek Simulator. Remember in B5 when Sheridan took command of the Agememnon again? It's like that. As someone else noted, if Picard wanted to command the Stargazer again, Starfleet would probably let him.
3)See 2. It's an MMORPG. By this logic, just about every IP-based game without permadeath "breaks the IP", including SWG, LOTR, Conan, Warhammer (originally, Slayers weren't in because they want to die,and in WH, you can't die, but demand for the class was so great they went in and the Hammerer was dropped.)
4)Personal shields were featured in ST:TAS, quite prominently. Ranged healing, though... that really DOES bug me. It's probably the one truly legitimate gripe on your list.
(BTW, I started watching Trek in 1973, when I was 8, and the very first episode I saw was "City On The Edge Of Forever". I still have my 1975 printing of the Star Fleet Technical Manual. About the only thing I can't claim is never seeing it during its original airing. (Like I'd remember if I did....) So let's skip the inevitable part where you insist I'm not a "real" Trekkie. )[4]
In terms of nerdrage over the IP, I'm more likely to get my undies in a twist over the "Star Trek is all about pewpewpew phaser battles!"[1] spin they're putting on it. OTOH, if you told me to design a game about forging intergalactic peace and seducing women with beehive hairdos, AND make it worth a 50-100 million dollar investment, I'd be hard pressed to do it, UNLESS I was allowed to make an "AO" title and focus purely on seducing green Orion slave girls. But I doubt that will happen.
Mmmm.... green Orion slave girls....
[1]Of course, I've heard many people on MMORPG.com insist that that's EXACTLY what a Star Trek game should be about and whine that it doesn't have FFA PVP....[2]
[2]Y'know, if the game works, in 2-3 years they could do a Mirror Universe full PVP/full loot version. [3]
[3]re:Mirror Universe -- Hoshi in the "Imperial" uniform... mmmm.... I'll be in my bunk.
[4]So, instead, we'll go to "Well, you're such a drooling nerd fanboy you'd buy my shit if it had a Star Trek logo on it!", instead. Ah, MMORPG.com . How I... am amused... by thee. Anything but actually debate facts.
The wonderful thing about internet forums is that you are actually free to read as many or as few threads as you like. For threads that you think might annoy/frustrate you....you can skip over them entirely. I believe there is even some sort of "ignore" function on most forums to filter out posters you find annoying.
If reading negative/critical posts/threads by Doubter (or me) annoys you....you have the solution at your finger-tips.
The title of this forum in not "STO Fan Discussion"..... it's "Star Trek Online - General Discussion". That means criticisms or negative discussions of STO are fair grounds.... as are positive posts.
Doubter is definately NOT a troll (as far as I can tell). I haven't seen him do anything which is Trollish. What he seems to be is very critical/negative about STO.... that does NOT make him a troll....unless you believe he honestly doesn't hold those opinions and is just posting to get a rise out of folks.
Honestly, I wish he HAD written that article... I would have given the opportunity.
Regardless...disagreeing with some-one is not being a troll....nor is holding a strongly negative opinion of a game.
Lets just accept the fact that people will have and voice strongly different opinions when it comes to STO.
Note that while I REALLY don't like the direction Cryptic decided to go with the game..... I do hope it's not a crappy game and that some folks here will be able to enjoy it for a good long time.
What I do take issue here is with some folks saying "Trek fans won't have any issue's with X because I'm a Trek fan and I don't have any issues with X"...... or "Cryptic decided to go X route because it was the only route which is workable/fun for a game....there is no other way you could do it".
Let's be honest, there are a million different ways a Developer could have chosen to slice this apple. Cryptic made certain decisions which were bound to royaly PO some people and please others.
Nothing wrong with the people that are dissapointed with some of the decisions made engaging in an intellectual discussion of those decisions and some of thier downsides. Furthermore for all the claims that certain posters will automaticaly have something negative to say about STO regardless of the subject....I can point out names that seem to automaticaly leap to STO's defence regardless of the subject.
Lets not pretend there is no pot & kettle dynamic going on here.
Well, here's the rub.
Given the kind of investment made in this property, you have to not just make a game, but a profitable game, one which can pay off a 50-150M investment (generally accepted cost of an A-list MMO these days), and continue to generate enough revenue to keep the game running and development active for 5-10 yeats. This circumscribes the potential design space *a lot*.
It's worth noting Cryptic seems to be partially imitating the only successful space-based MMORPG out there -- EVE Online, one of only a small handful of games still growing.
Oh goodie the MMO_Doubter daily "I don't like this game design" post is out! It is true my memory isn't what it once was, but I doubt anyone has forgotten the last few hundred complaint posts you posted in the previous few months Doubter! At one time i actually cared (very little to be truthful) that they didn't have some of the stuff you wanted in the game (although most of it is pure rubbish in my opinion), but now I'm numbed by the total volumes of gibberish you have posted (very truthful). Give it a rest and move on to the next game you want to trash already, maybe that group won't figure your a troll for the first few months!
Those that agree with Doubter at least have to agree that Cryptic was up front with what they were going to include or not include. So most of his objections make little sense as the design has always been going in another direction. As for whether or not the game is true to the IP, you can find much more stuff that does agree to the spirit of the IP than the 4 negatives he tried to use in my opinion. If the game is fun to play people will come, if not they won't. Simple as that period!
Sometimes. Other times they'd do things like talk about how the Klingons were going to be a complete faction again and again until the last few months where they suddenly, though subtly changed their tune and just started talking about pvp (until the December revelation where they said Klingons would basically have zero PvE content for the sole reason they didn't have time to do it properly). Really Cryptic has done a bit of both...largely the stuff they've been disingenuous about are things that look like they've had to cut back on because they don't have enough time to do them properly (such as crafting, Klingons, non-combat, etc).
This. I would even go so far as to say that since Paramount or Universal or whomever owns the ST IP has licensed Cryptic to run with it, that anything Cryptic does now is CANON. Learn to live with it or move on, Treknerd.
That's really what the TrekNerds are really raging about and they haven't fully realized it yet. Since the IP has been licensed to Cryptic this game will enter into CANON status. Course they will later emorage about it being expanded universe stuff like the Star Wars nerds did on the SOE forums in SWG just to calm themselves down.
That's a ridiculous charge since only the shows and movies are proper canon...an MMO certainly is not (though, neither are even the novels canon, properly speaking). No one is upset that anything Cryptic does is canon, people are upset because the game looks rushed and it needlessly has numerous IP-breaking elements such as ships and people with healing beams and a Federation focused on war and conflict as opposed to non-violent resolution.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Well, here's the rub.
Given the kind of investment made in this property, you have to not just make a game, but a profitable game, one which can pay off a 50-150M investment (generally accepted cost of an A-list MMO these days), and continue to generate enough revenue to keep the game running and development active for 5-10 yeats. This circumscribes the potential design space *a lot*.
It's worth noting Cryptic seems to be partially imitating the only successful space-based MMORPG out there -- EVE Online, one of only a small handful of games still growing.
First, I don't see how Cryptic is imitating Eve at all (not that I think they should). Also, the design is not nearly as limited as you think it is. There are MMOs without combat or ones where all challenges are done via puzzles and both are successful. If the gaming industry demonstrates anything, it is that innovative gameplay is generally rewarded even if it means you aren't blasting things to bits. Heck, the main problem with most MMOs since WoW (besides a tendency towards being rushed) is that they have too little innovation. I personally see no reason to think a properly done Star Trek MMO with optional player crews, lots of challenges with many non-violent ways to resolve them (at least for the Feds and not to say there wouldn't be combat as well), and generally respecting the IP, making concessions only as needed, wouldn't do well.
Anyhow, like I said above, if there is one thing the gaming industry teaches, it is that innovation is largely rewarded by players, so designing a game by trying to avoid being innovating is generally a bad idea -- it just makes your product blend in with the masses more than anything else.
No world pvp, only one race to choose from, world is as instanced as the king of instancing age of conan, no 3D damage theres only 4 sides of damage in ships, everything is instanced..no way we can go out in the galaxy and find enemy ships from player enemy factions, did i mention the game is super instanced???
Its a game made in a rush, with a few dollars cost wise...with the basic of the basic of the basic features to make it playable..
A real sto game has a world like eve..with instanced planets with few more instancing as needed...
Straight non-game playing fans most likely don't even know sites like this exist. You throw up a video booth at some ST convention and play the various trailers Cryptic has put out and you'd probably get a bunch of ohhh's and ahhh's. They won't know that any game can do space manuver's and that Cryptic has shorted them on it. They'd probably key on the items gamers just take for granted like the bridge being oversized. We may know it's for collision detection purposes but they won't.
So yea, throwing this info out for our fellow gamers, a few months ago, was good, but to keep hacking at it in the name of the 'fan' now isn't.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Well, here's the rub.
Given the kind of investment made in this property, you have to not just make a game, but a profitable game, one which can pay off a 50-150M investment (generally accepted cost of an A-list MMO these days), and continue to generate enough revenue to keep the game running and development active for 5-10 yeats. This circumscribes the potential design space *a lot*.
It's worth noting Cryptic seems to be partially imitating the only successful space-based MMORPG out there -- EVE Online, one of only a small handful of games still growing.
Not so much.....plus I'd be surprised if Cryptic's budget for STO topped 30 Mil.... They have a habit of producing games with a low initial investment.....reusing the CO engine and a 2 year Dev cycle would hunt at that for STO.
There are 2 ways companies can succeed in already established markets....
1) They can imitate what their competition already does just find a way to execute far better (not so easy) whether on price or quality.
2) They can do something significantly different from what their competition is doing (also not so easy).... thus they have a major product differentiator to attract customers to their product rather then the competitions.....and possibly even pull in whole new market segments.
Don't do either and you are just burger joint #413 on a street that already has 412 other burger joints doing the exact same thing. Following formula's in a highly saturated market is often not a good recipie for success...especialy in the current market.
Regardless.... there WERE a million different ways a Developer could have gone with this game.... and gone proffitably. Cryptic WAS a little bit self-limited by the resources/time they chose (or were able) to devote to the project.... That doesn't mean a developer couldn't have been quite successfull sinking a full AAA budget and schedule in the game....that just means you need a longer (and therefore bigger) ROI. Even with the limitations of Cryptics budget....there was considerably leeway to impliment/design differently then they did. The idea that the choices they made were the only way they could have gone....and be proffitable (which remains yet to be seen, I remind you) is complete and utter bunk....even with thier existing resource constraints.
Will the game they end up making turn out to be crappy.....no idea yet...... could they have made a different game....absolutely.
Not true with all works, since J.M.S. specifically said and set up all B5 books as part of the official canon of the B5 universe.
Lucus seems to have gone the way you say, who knows what ST will be.
SWG (pre-cu) - AoC (pre-f2p) - PotBS (pre-boarder) - DDO - LotRO (pre-f2p) - STO (pre-f2p) - GnH (beta tester) - SWTOR - Neverwinter
Nobody posting in this thread, anyway.
This makes me laugh in many, many ways.
So after much gnashing of teeth by few, we've basically come to the conclusion that these claims really aren't IP breaking. As others have said, a lot of the hate being thrown around is the standard angry trek rage that gets thrown about when ANYTHING new trek comes out. Some people said Voyager wasn't Trek, some people said Enterprise wasn't Trek, heck I'm sure some people even said DS9 and TNG weren't Trek. Everyone has a different idea of "what is Trek".
As far as official canon. The shows and movies are canon, as is STO. The books and comics are considered "less canon" which essentially means they can be used or ignored as desired. Honestly I think setting STO 30 years in the future was the best decision they could have made (and consequently one of SWGs biggest mistakes). You can't set an MMO during an established canon timeperiod, because it doesn't leave you any control of the IP. With the blessing of CBS (every step of the way apparently), and having set the game 30 years past the latest canon we have, Cryptic has allowed themselves full control over what happens with the IP, including any new things they decide to add or modify.
Honestly, considering the multitude of challenges facing any potential Trek MMO developer, I really think we're getting the best we could have hoped for, as far as making the most people happy.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Not true with all works, since J.M.S. specifically said and set up all B5 books as part of the official canon of the B5 universe.
Lucus seems to have gone the way you say, who knows what ST will be.
Star Trek has traditionally only had the shows and movies as canon much more than Star Wars. With Star Wars, books and such are an official level of canon (Lucas can override that level or a movie, but pretty much nothing else and they try to avoid even that). Star Trek is far different and novels, games, and the like are regularly ignored when it comes to future episodes and movies. Now certainly a future show might decide to acknowledge certain events in a game or novel as canon (this is almost never done, but it is possible), but there is no real reason to think this would ever be the case and even less of a reason to think it would be the case for an MMO. Of course, Star Trek even in the shows has not done a great job of keeping track of canon. Chocrane, the Eugeneics War, and World War III have many conflicting accounts...originally the Warp Drive was invented before the Earth was devastated (so humankind had already spread to the stars before World War III), but obviously First Contact ignored this -- and there are plenty of other examples.
Oh really! That's cool then cause it gives more variety for everyone.
I just hope they won't mess up the balancing when it comes to selfcreated races. ^_^
Thanks a lot for the clarification! I'm looking forward to the game.
Oh really! That's cool then cause it gives more variety for everyone.
I just hope they won't mess up the balancing when it comes to selfcreated races. ^_^
Thanks a lot for the clarification! I'm looking forward to the game.
I posted Dana's review a few posts ago of the character creator
I could care less about Trek "canon". Honestly any sci-fi show that has time travel as a plausible solution to problems cannot actually have a “canon” about anything. Time travel makes any time line relative and subjective, since anyone at any time could screw things up easily. Time travel works in TV shows as a plot hook, but as far as a consistent universe is concerned it makes it a joke. So trek is not about a chronological "canon”, it cannot be by virtue of its own ill advised plot usage.
Nevertheless, there is, at least for me, a Trek feel that is more important than any of these specifics that people are getting hung up on. I am a fan of TOS and a little of the Next Gen stuff. DS9 has some good stuff, but after that show I pretty much lost interest in the whole thing until the new movie came out. For me, Trek is about adventure in space. Exploration of the unknown and yes combat with some new villain or faction. Kirk was never afraid to let phasers fly when needed, and there are lots of examples of war or the threat of war in the shows, I don’t have problem with combat, I think Star Trek space combat is unique and if Cryptic gets it right could be a very rewarding Trek experience. The most popular, and the best imho Trek movie was the Wrath of Khan, and it was all about space combat. What’s important here is not that STO has space combat, but more about how space combat feels and reacts in a Trek "way"?
There has got to be thinking involved in space combat. Strategy and tactics must be king. You should be able to outmaneuver someone by thinking alone, and not by clicking your mouse faster or having the latest “gear”. If they nail this, they have created a Trek experience, at least for me. I would like to see player crews, because that’s part of the feel of the shows, but I can understand how it would be difficult to implement without spending a lot of time in development and testing. Making everyone a captain is the easy route out, it’s just easier to implement. Still, I think they should make the bigger more powerful vessels player crewed. This would limit their numbers since they can only be played by organized groups, and it would allow them to test such a dynamic without ruining the rest of the game for everyone else. The last thing I want to see in end game is hundreds of Sovereigns because everyone is ranked to that level. How silly that would be.
STO looks good, but they need to nail a few things to keep this customer happy. I am afraid they are going miss this in favor of trying to appeal to investors instead of their customers. (and really people this is capitalism its not about you the customer, it never has been, EVER, that’s a fairy tale corporations use to make you think they have your best interests in mind, they don’t, and they never will until the system is changed.) Here as my personal list of things I want from STO:
1) PvP and space combat in general must be a thinking man’s game
2) PvP must mean something, have some sort of effect on the overall story other than leader boards
3) Space must feel BIG. But it also must feel like: Your affecting what happens in the world by your actions. Instances destroy this. Instances in some cases are fine, I understand it solves lots of problems, but understand that making people have cookie cutter experiences makes them less invested in the game world. Less investment in the game world means= they are gone in three months.
4) Some random, or dev generated “threats to the galaxy” or other type events. I want to feel like I’m in a universe that stuff is going on. Static instance based quests might be fun and nice on first tries, but in the long run it makes for a boring universe. (DDO everyone?) Give us some verity. Content. Content. Content.
5) If you don’t have the resources to produce tons of content, let the players do it for you. How many Trek fans will be playing this game?? Use them! I could come up with a dozen adventures off the top of my head. How many more are like me out there??
6) I would really like to see a little more open world than seems to be the case. Allow people to play pirates and merchants, maybe in an expansion? This would also give incentives for PvP, and add more dynamics to the universe.
7) Give the Klingons some content for god’s sake!! IF not PvE, at least give them ORvR or something!
8) I can’t stress this more, this is this most un-Trek thing I have noticed about STO. GIVE ME BATTLE DAMAGE!! I want to see my ship scarred and battered! I want to see how badly I have destroyed someone’s hull, physically. I know this is likely to never happen, but it’s so much a part of Star Trek space battle for me.
I have more, but if they get those, I’d be pretty happy with STO. Oh and get rid of those silly trails behind the engines, a computer should be able to tell you how fast a ship is going.
for me the two things this game needs to do is to feel like Star Trek and be fun
I'm not sure about it being the best we could have hoped for, because I myself would prefer more options for people who don't care about playing the Federation. I think the non-combat social crowd that makes up a decent percentage of gamers would love to play a game set in the Star Trek universe where they are a Ferengi or some other alien that sells merchandise or runs a shop or bar of some kind. There are many possibilities for this game to go and if Cryptic is smart they will implement something to thatt effect later on.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Nobody posting in this thread, anyway.
This makes me laugh in many, many ways. Hopefully one of those ways is a happy, fun way, for I mean no ill will.
< Snip. Let's agree to disagree. KTanner addressed the canon issue nicely >
Honestly, considering the multitude of challenges facing any potential Trek MMO developer, I really think we're getting the best we could have hoped for, as far as making the most people happy. I reluctantly agree with this, though I believe this "best" is due to developer laziness and desire for fast cash and not any real love or understanding of the IP.
But it is what it is.
Even if it had elfs and ewoks it would be close enough to Star Trek for me. I'm not looking for an online Star Trek life style. Just wanna log in, fly my cruiser and blow up the bad guys. TBH, I hope it does get elfs, cause they'd make fun target practice. Guess Vulcans will have to do for now.