The game doesn’t have content per se like most mmorpgs. Eve is a ‘sandbox’ game, not an ‘amusement park’ game. It’s like an mmo equivalent of Team Fortress 2. That’s one reason the ‘expansions’ aren’t really expansions, and the reason the ‘expansions’ are free. Nobody in their right mind would ever buy them. CCP’s development costs, and what they deliver to players, is far less than for other mmorpgs developers. That’s a fact. If you like a sandbox great, but doesn’t pretend CCP is actually some example of excellence. I do think CCP is an example of excellence for providing us small but steady expansions. The major ‘expansion’ Dominion they mention actually made the game worse in that it introduced WORSE lag than before the patch. The game is f’ing over 6 years old and CCP is back doing public testing on the test server to fix lag for big fleet battles, THE endgame. I have to agree here, CCP made a mistake and they have to fix it fast, good thing tho that no other mmo has issues like this. I remember WoW and the YEARS of lag and bad servers. Worm holes they mention as a major change really didn’t change much of anything. There’s nothing wrong with the worm holes, but they hardly changed anything for anyone either. They are a great example of good sandbox PVE, and most agree that they are alot of fun. Eve’s ‘epic’ mission arcs are shallow jokes compared to the inventory of storyline and quests in other mmorpgs. I am sure there are other MMO's with (alot) better "quests", EVE can't be the best in everything The change in sovereignty mechanics? That wasn’t a major advance. That was a belated measure to replace the POS shooting drudge that people hated for years. Lol you can twist everything so it looks bad, even tho I haven't done much 0.0, let alone POS shooting, I still think that looks like an improvement, and most of the playerbase agrees ( without the lag tho ). I could go on and on, but the single worst aspect of Eve I can think of off the top of my head is that game mechanics push people to use multiple accounts. Players from any other game would think it just crazy to get into a game where the veterans who stay more than 6 months end up using multiple accounts, but that’s what happens. It’s crazy, but lots of different game mechanics push players to get multiple accounts. Nah, if you join a good corp, there is really no need for multiple accounts, it is your own choice to do so. And there is not that much more multi accounting going on than in other MMO's. Last figure was 20% I believe, not far off from other MMO's I am sure. ( DAoC, WoW, all had it ) Eve veterans get fanboy goggles, and they don’t feel cheated by CCP. The players who stay for the abuse, they are proud of having multiple accounts because it’s a status symbol, it separates you from the newbs. Sure CCP’s Eve doesn’t charge for expansions, because their expansions are really patches, not something anyone would pay for. CCP more than makes up for that though, and actually costs MORE per player than other mmorpgs, even though they have LESS content, because veteran players have multiple accounts, multiple subscriptions. Again, the way CCP does expansions is for me the example of how ALL other MMO companies should do it.
(Some veterans say their subs are free, paid for by isk, but just a message to anyone of them reading this who can’t do math: SOMEONE paid real money for the game time card, GTC, which paid your sub, probably a sucker newb who was trying to keep up with 6 year old players. Some player, veteran or not, is paying real money for all those accounts.) Sure as a newbie you can buy some advancement with RL cash, once you grow up you don't need it anymore and you can even sell some to other newbies On the subject of newbs vs veterans, a huge downside to Eve for newbs is that Eve doesn’t have resets. In other games, once a year or two years or three, the playing field gets leveled. Not in Eve. Doesn’t matter when you start from now on, you will always be behind veterans, some of whom have been in the game over half a decade. Agree to some extent, still there are large diminishing returns, T3 even lets the vets lose skillpoints, so if you as a newbie specialize you can become as good as an expert within a year. ( If you can't handle that, find another game ) Blah blah blah, k, I’m done, the list of downsides to Eve is too long to keep going here.
To the editors of mmorpgs.com.
If you want to talk about some wonderful, fantastic, unique features of Eve or some neat stories of events in game, or whatever, that’s fine, but wtf, Game of the Year? Please. What a bad, bad, bad choice. The only logical choice for MMO of the year imho, good work editors.
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
P.S. Their own players have no confidence in CCP progress and response feedback. Eve has a CSM, Council of Stellar Management, a group of players voted for by the players who go to Iceland to discuss game changes with CCP.
Almost nobody even votes for those delegates because the whole exercise is a sham. Voting is free, easy, just takes a click, is available to all accounts, but almost nobody votes, and by “almost nobody,” I mean less than 10 percent of the entire Eve population votes for the CSM. That’s how much Eve players think CCP is listening to them.
(And by the way, that CSM itself was created as a ploy to improve player confidence after a CCP dev was caught cheating for the team ‘wining’ much of the time in Eve.
Also by the way, CCP’s response in that dev cheating scandal was to permanently ban all the accounts OF THE WHISTLE BLOWER, who revealed the CCP dev was cheating.) Shit happened, CCP acknowledged this, they fixed it, perhaps not in the best way.
P.P.S. The great Dominion ‘expansion’ that mmorpgs. com is lauding, didn’t include some capital changes that everyone anticipated, and it was a telling debacle.
Recently CCP had a dev in charge of end game ships, capitals, who scrapped most of the tested, player approved changes in development for months on the test server. When the CCP dev bothered to type up some of his thoughts, he included a suggestion that people use target painters on capitals to compensate for some other changes.
To put that in World of Warcraft terms, it’d be like a Blizzard dev coming out and scrapping planned, highly anticipated, tested, player approved changes, and in the discussion seriously saying that warriors should just bubble hearth when in trouble. Yes, as ridiculous as suggesting that warriors, not paladins, bubble hearth. Sorry, I don’t usually refer to WoW, but it’s something everyone understands, even if they don’t like that game.
Some features got postponed, big deal
Obviously you lost all faith in EVE, so I suggest you go look for something else
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site : http://mmodata.blogspot.be/ Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
The trolls whining about EVE being so old and cry that WoW wasn't chosen are ignorant to the fact that WoW is younger than EVE by a few months only, making WoW a 2003 game, as well.
Nice one there , gratz to CCP and all of the players... it is truly a great game that had the courage and the ballz to follow another path in this "clone" industry.
I think this is well deserved. Each patch brings people back or new people, EvE is one of very few MMO's that subs grow and grow over time. It the playerbase is growing all the time CCP are doing something right maybe other people in the MMO industry need to take a step back and see how CCP handles things. In fact I can only think of EvE for subs growing over time and not going down.
It is a sandbox game and sandbox are defined by possibilities where as themeparks are defined by restrictions. That is why most themepark games have a huge subscriber base at start only to dwindle down to less than 50% of what it was at launch.
Aion, WAR, CO, AoC are all examples of that and WoW one of the few exceptions. Reason is that sandbox games is what you make it to be (if the devs gives you good tools) where as themepark games is that the devs make it to be and devs can only crunch out that much content.
However it is much easier to make a profitable themepark MMORPG than a profitable sandbox and probably why most devs go for themeparks. Its easy money even though the game tanks after a while (AoC, WAR).
No one that I know plays EVE. It must be very niche lol
Same here.
Quit being a drama queen. Subscriptions don't say anything for the quality of the game. They just say how accessible that game is.
You see, it's like other ppl tell, think of it as number of votes.
Another example : If the game is crap (IMHO) and boring (Yes, this is my thoughts about it) I do not pay for it, if I like it I'll pay and play. So why subscriptions don't say anything?!
What's so good about the game that very very unfriendly to new players? What's so good about wasting 5-8 monthes to start playing normally?!
If you ask me, no, I dont play WoW, but I think it's a great game since population grows there, compared to other games. Even if not they still have 10-20 times more ppl than any other mmo.
This site and forum becomes more and more like WoW haters habitat. Even rating on this site shows this game is not top one, while every non-idiot gamer knows that's not true. Since the majority of mmo players still play it and like it I believe. (Why should ppl play something they don't like?).
I wonder how can it be that game having 270 000 of subscribers at the beginning, then raising it to 10 000 000+ can't be the best?
______________________________________ You Are Not Tifa, Cloud, Aeris, Barret, Red XIII, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Sephiroth or even Cid. Not Any Other FF Character.
Originally posted by Wizardry EVE would not make my top 10,lucky if it made it into my top 20,it fails in every single aspect of the design.EVERY single piece of the game design was done CHEAP. This game is male dominated as a female would not touch it with a ten foot pole,CCP has already acknowledged this as FACT,so don't even try to argue it.They claim they are going to try and remedy the problem,but it is impossible..why? The game is nothing more than a POLITICAL game,how that equals fun in anyone's mind is beyond me.I know their is a NICHE crowd for anything and everything and this is 100% a NICHE game. This NICHE crowd however should NOT confuse that with EVE being a top notch game.I am not stupid i have seen in the past from another poll MMORPG was mentioning CCP games as future great games and leaving out Schilling's game, i was like HUH say what?I knew then and there ,that there is 100% some real bias here towards CCP.As a matter of fact i believe they had FFXIV rated far below the two CCP games if it was in the list at all,i can't really remember .,just sad to be that biased. However no matter, a game that caters to only 50% of the demographic,can NEVER be targeted as a TOP game let alone as the BEST of ...it is laughable to see how biased that choice is,i am not happy of the choice at all.No i am not going to lose any sleep over it ,i cannot stand WOW,but you know what i would not be surprised at all if WOW was number 1,i could even accept it,because it DOES cater to a MUCH larger demographic,but EVE?? i was totally shocked.
Actually there is a women only corp in eve. and while i only met a few in wow, i met tons in eve. its bound to happen when there are 3000 people in just one alliance.
point of the game is its a sandbox. it doesn't have an endgame. wanna go play 0.0 politics? fine, go ahead, did that for 2 years and left when our empire inevitably fell. but hey, who knew piracy could be the new endgame for me
ambulation promises to fix much of the customization options, giving eve a second life in space feel. lets hope that caters to the other 50% of the demographics.
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by Liranan
Originally posted by Gameloading
Originally posted by Woopin Originally posted by Gameloading Oh and Wooping, I know of another mmorpg that has a subscriber base that continues to grow and not drop. darn...what was it called again? help me out here...something about a world and war and crafting?
I think it was also growing a tiny bit faster than EVE.
Depends how you look at it. But yeah it still is rare for a game to raise in subs over time.
That's because everyone is playing that other game.
WoW has dropped a lot in subrscribers but Blizz won't release the numbers to show how 'well' their gem of a game is doing. Diablo III and SC II are years late because they keep assigning their developers to work on WoW and their paid expansions. EVE expansions are FREE and are released every six months.
I have not seen any indication that wow has actually lost subscribers. If they did, it happened in China as the game has been offline for months and switched to a new company..Either way, World of Warcrafts subscribtion numbers still dwarf those of EVE and pretty much every other mmorpg out there. Its great EVE releases an expansion every 6 month. Obviously those expansions come nowhere near the quality and content you get in a WoW expansion. You get what you pay for.
eve expansions are better. what exactly did tbc offer that was new? more of the same lvls, more of the same monsters with different skins. more of the same spells, more of the same dungeons, more of the same gear. the game didn't change in any way when tbc came out. it was still the same. sure we lvld to 70, but it was the same as the lvling before. and once we got to the new endgame it was just like the endgame before. the one new thing was we now had mounts, which could fly. wotlk was the same. nothing new. same old lvling, raiding and mobs. they didn't even make new mobs, just took the old ones and re-skinned them... edit: forgot the death knight...
admittedly some eve expansions also sucked but most offered actual new stuff. take apocrypha, and wormholes. a new exploration system, and new space to explore. a whole new ai for the npcs to give pve a pvp feel. and a haven for pirates to roam wormwhole space and ransom those trying to get rich there. not to mention t3 ships, a whole new chain of customizable ships.
thing is its a sandbox. with their expansions they don't add new rides, they add new tools. and innovative players can do all sorts of stuff with new tools.
that's how capital ships made it into the game and capital warfare was introduced. player operated stations, sovereignty, alliances and much more.
with the number of people paying for wow and for all the expansions i cant believe the crap blizzard keep throwing out. i mean for a game that old why the hell don't they make a new graphics engine? wanna know why it lags when your in dalaran? not cause your graphics card wasn't good enough, but cause the engine cant use it. eve did it on much smaller resources, and it was yet another expansion, which as you say didn't come nowhere near the quality of wow? they made a new graphics engine! i really don't see why wow hasn't done it already. but as i said, most eve expansions bring actual NEW stuff into the game, where wow expansions are just more of the same.
ok now im curious, why the hell doesn't Blizzard make a new graphical engine for wow, they are gonna need it (or are probably already making one) for the new MMO they are making.
Also, I never thought of EvE's expansions as an expansion at all, just a big patch. Nothing really new, just a few ships, modules.
No wonder they are free.
______________________________________ You Are Not Tifa, Cloud, Aeris, Barret, Red XIII, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Sephiroth or even Cid. Not Any Other FF Character.
Another example : If the game is crap (IMHO) and boring (Yes, this is my thoughts about it) I do not pay for it, if I like it I'll pay and play. So why subscriptions don't say anything?!
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. Seriously, this game is all about waiting, it doesn't even have manual ship controls, how dumb is that?
But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space, still, the rest is all a bunch of junk.
If you all disagree with me, stop and think, you decide to mine, you must wait to fill up your cargo hold. You try to kill something, target it, orbit around it, and shoot it, and wait for it to die. You need to skill up, just wait and you'll skill up.
But I suppose if they add a feature which allows me to actually leave my ship and fight on land, I may consider playing it.
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
as for those thinking of joining, yes the game is not new player frendly. They are improving the new player experience, but don't expect much.
and don't worry about not being able to catch up because of the SP system. see its not very long its very wide. you can only train so far in one category, then you have to go train something else. so the key word is to specialize. for example lets say it takes you one month to specialize in frigates. then you have to go an train something else. and lest say you fight a veteran playing for years. he is specialized in frigates and battleships and carriers and mother-ships and all sorts of ships, but right now he is in a frigate. and all those skillpoints aren't helping him. you are completely equal skillpoints wise, because you are both maxed out in frigates. and the fact he can fly all sorts of ships wont help him.
so the only difference is, that he can chose between different ships, and you can only pick one, but you are completely equal. think of it as being able to train a warrior and a mage on the same character in wow, but you can only play one at a time. now older players will have all of the classes leveled and at the login screen they can pick whatever they want. you only managed to lvl one in the month that you have been playing so you only get to pick the one class. but once both of you have loged in, you are completely equal, and the fact he has all the other classes leveld as well, isn't helping him.
all of this doesn't really matter though as skillpoints really don't make much of a difference against people who know how to play. there is a video of a dude who got banned, so he and his friend made a trial and after a couple of hours of training skillpoints they made a pvp video. you would be amazed what a few hour old characters in eve can do. edit: found it:http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025677
so don't listen to people telling you how you cant pvp until you have a shitload of skillpoints. that's bullshit and their pussies.
you can only train one character per account, and vets from 0.0 wars make alts on those accounts, they don't train them, they just have the initial skillpoints they get upon creation, and then they join rvb (red versus blue), which is a sort of free pvp in cheap ships in high security space.
so don't be afraid to start pvping, its the best thing the game has to offer, and it actually kinda sucks without it. just don't fly what you cant afford to lose
I think its important to offer an alternate view point regarding some key issues raised by others in this thread.
RMT
On the subject of RMT, yes, EVE has ISK farmers and sellers, and CCP does a good job fighting them on a daily basis. The war will never be won, but CCP does manage to keep them in check.
Regarding their own sales of ISK, they don't do it. Players within the game can trade extra ISK that they've earned to other players for GTC's, which of course are purchased by others from CCP. This does make a profit for CCP, but does not introduce any new ISK into the economy.
Real Time Skill Point Training
I'm not going to lie, you either love this or hate it, normally directly related on how much free time you have to play MMORPG's. In my own case, I think its the greatest thing to ever come along, finally a mechanic that doesn't reward people just because they have more free time than me. I probably will never stop playing this game just because of this mechanic.
As others have pointed out though, this does not mean that a person can never "catch" up and be competitive per sec. All ships and professions have a finite number of skills that affect them, and they all can be maximized in about a year or less. (Titans not included) The only advantage a long term veteran has is he (or she) will be able to fly a wider variety of ships or perform well in more professions, (exploration, mining, trading etc) A person does not need to excel in every ship or profession to enjoy playing EVE, though of course, in the first 6 months your choices will seem to be a bit limited.
IMO, resets are not necessary (not that I've seen all that many games do them) and though I've only been playing 2.5 years now, I don't feel disadvantaged in any way to those who have played from beta. In fact, in my corp we have a number of beta players and I exceed them in total wealth and can fight better than them because they chose the way of the industrialist. (but boy can they build a great capital ship)
Multiple Accounts
Its true, I have three, so I guess people have them. I also had 5 DAOC accounts, 3 WOW accounts, and 3 Lineage 2 accounts. I'm a multi-boxer and enjoy playing this way. Do I need 3 accounts? No, as another person mentioned, you can work collectively with other players to accomplish what I do solo on my own. (I tend to be anti-social somewhat) But in the end, what is wrong if a game is so enjoyable that you want to purchase more than 1 account? I call it a bonus rather than view it negatively as others do. But a nice feature is that you can pay for your extra accounts by trading ISK for GTC's, something a new player won't do but right now I earn enough ISK in a single night's WH OP to purchase a months time. (and yes, WH's did add a lot to the game, from T3 ships to an excellent way for casual players to earn ISK hand over fist, which was another great bonus for me)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.
Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.
Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.
Ermm.. he is trying to say you forgot how awesome exploring is in EvE. Exploring is probably the coolest thing to do in eve. There are really cool things to see in EvE that not many players get to see. So really there is four things to do, Explore, Kill, Mine/craft, and wait for skills. However killing is huge in Eve, I mean alliance warfare, pirating, random bump ins. and other moments. You put killing in such a vague way. It is much more then just killing.... Ohh also the economy in EvE is pretty big.
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.
Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.
Ermm.. he is trying to say you forgot how awesome exploring is in EvE. Exploring is probably the coolest thing to do in eve. There are really cool things to see in EvE that not many players get to see. So really there is four things to do, Explore, Kill, Mine/craft, and wait for skills. However killing is huge in Eve, I mean alliance warfare, pirating, random bump ins. and other moments. You put killing in such a vague way. It is much more then just killing.... Ohh also the economy in EvE is pretty big.
While I have no doubt that the community and politics of the game are interesting, the combat is dull and rather lifeless. It's who has the bigger guns, has spent more isk and who has the better latency/fps(although I suppose this is also the case for every other computer game out there). And if EVE's only positive is exploring, it needs work. I'll also give EVE a point for a nice economy.
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
Originally posted by Noan Also, I never thought of EvE's expansions as an expansion at all, just a big patch. Nothing really new, just a few ships, modules. No wonder they are free.
so, you are saying the trinity graphics up grade was just a patch?
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.
Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.
Your original comment stated that there are only 3 things to do in EvE. You followed it up with an activity that does not fit in any of the "only" things you can do in EvE. It's a bit of a contradiction and that is why i isolated the two comments so that would be easier to see.
Ultimately, the larger point is that there are more then 3 things to do. As many have said, EvE is sandbox heavy and therefore, the players drive the game. I can play the market which is fairly instant and does not involve killing or mining (though I could be skilling up while I play the market of course). I can explore, which does not involve killing or mining (although, thanks to the wonders of real-time skilling, I could again be doing this at the same time). I could be fulfilling courier contracts which, if I were on auto-pilot would involve waiting I guess.
Point is, this is just off the top of my head and someone who is more involved in more areas of EvE could probably expand on this list even further. Never mind whether you personally enjoy these activities. By all means, if you don't like the mechanics and design choices of the game then fine. No one can argue with your opinion and personal preferences. But, stating there are only three things though is a misrepresentation
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
The world would be a better place if more mmo/mmorpg's were as well designed, with a rich range of game-play and sandboxy tools for players to develop the content, as CCP has done with EvE.
My thoughts exactly. I'm usually not very fond of awards, but I have to admit EvE deserves this reward more than any other MMO.
CCP has vision, passion, lucidity, a high level of professionalism, and knows and understands what their players want and need.
I wish everybody in the MMO world could reach that level of quality. Thumbs up!
This is so absurd.. how on earth could you not recognize the greatest MMO gateway drug of them all. It has to be the game of the year; 60 million players, billions of clicks on cows and chickens and corn and such. Mouse clicks and daily logins tell the whole story, but you deny them?
You disrespect all the Farmville loyalists. This is a sad day, how dare you make my virtual sheep cry.. and heck, even the sheep playing World of McDonaldscraft are crying for the Farmville folks. They can sympathize, user base means a lot. I mean it is just like when I bring my McDonalds to work and someone questions me on why I'm eating that garbage.. I just shrug them off and think, " billions of burgers sold, this is the best of the best, hands down because numbers don't lie."
Also, I never thought of EvE's expansions as an expansion at all, just a big patch. Nothing really new, just a few ships, modules.
No wonder they are free.
so, you are saying the trinity graphics up grade was just a patch?
So they updated 3d models. Nothing special, many games did that.
Also EvE's graphical engine was updated like 3 times, even after that it's still crappy (technically), it still uses 90%-80% of CPU, not GPU. So even if you have some uber GTX295 or something else this game lags (visually) as hell.
Well except this patch, other patches was tiny and never felt like Expansion at all.
______________________________________ You Are Not Tifa, Cloud, Aeris, Barret, Red XIII, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Sephiroth or even Cid. Not Any Other FF Character.
Originally posted by tehikk This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. Seriously, this game is all about waiting, it doesn't even have manual ship controls, how dumb is that? But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space, still, the rest is all a bunch of junk. If you all disagree with me, stop and think, you decide to mine, you must wait to fill up your cargo hold. You try to kill something, target it, orbit around it, and shoot it, and wait for it to die. You need to skill up, just wait and you'll skill up. But I suppose if they add a feature which allows me to actually leave my ship and fight on land, I may consider playing it.
that was a design decision. the idea is that it would not be a twitch based game, so a game where the person with better reflexes wins (like say a shooter), but a game where a smarter person would win. so you win by thinking, and having better ideas (though interceptor fights are quite fast paced).
also you misunderstood the scale. you aren't flying a ship small enough to be able to fly it "manually" as you put it. think of it more like enterprise where you set a direction or orbit and then play with shields and weapons.
but i completely agree with you. eve is that kind of a game, and i can understand that it will not be for everyone. the game does indeed take time, planing and thinking, and not everyone wants that. i enjoy it but not all the time, i doubt anyone does. sometimes i just want to start a game of unreal and shoot everything that moves, screw thinking. but sometimes i want to play eve, think about what i am going to do, and then win cause i was smarter and had a better idea. or lose cause my idea sucked, and go back to the drawing board and come up with a better strategy.
even CCP realizes that and that is why they decided to make the complete opposite of eve, but still in the eve universe. they are making a MMOFPS, with instant gratification in the eve universe. you will be a soldier running on the planets of eve shooting guns and flying fighters (the kind of ship flying you meant), and fighting for control of planets in eve, for sovereignty purposes of eve players. so eve players fight for region control, and for that they need to control the planets, and that's how scenarios for the fps are created.
so you get the exact opposite of eve, in the eve universe but don't say the game is bad just cause its not twitch based, there are players out there who prefer this kind of a game.
so yeah, the ships are a few kilometers in length...so no joystick control
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. Seriously, this game is all about waiting, it doesn't even have manual ship controls, how dumb is that? How logical is it that a large space ship would actually have manual ship controls? Computers would run everything in a spaceship even by today's standards, heck most airliners are computer controlled for the most part. But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space, still, the rest is all a bunch of junk. If you all disagree with me, stop and think, you decide to mine, you must wait to fill up your cargo hold. (true, mining is boring, but the real challenge of mining comes when you are out in 0.0 or WH's and you try to maximize your yields while making sure no one kills your Hulk. And over 800 Exhumers have died in this weeks Hulkageddon alone. Some people enjoy mining, just not me) You try to kill something, target it, orbit around it, and shoot it, and wait for it to die. You should actually play past the free trial because in PVP, or sleeper OPs you will not be circiing anything unless yo enjoy dying a lot) You need to skill up, just wait and you'll skill up. (Actually, you don't have to wait at all, go out and play the game with the skills you have, and as time passes you'll be able to increasingly more activities.) But I suppose if they add a feature which allows me to actually leave my ship and fight on land, I may consider playing it. (Won't be happening. There will be ambulation, where you can move around on stations and play dress up, and Dust514 will be a console only game that will let you do ground combat.)
But as to your original point, there's only 3 things to do, I'd venture to say that's pretty much true of most MMO's, but not EVE.
Eve also has in depth crafting, a great trading mechanic, exploration, and of course, kill things in a variety of ways, from missions, to rats in systems, to sleepers, to of course, other players, which is what the game is all about. Some players run schools to train new players or players in combat, others run banks, others manage empires in 0.0 space (almost a ful time job) while others run mission running organizations. Some folks are ruthless pirates while others are paid mercenaries who terrorize high sec space for fun and profit. Some people even host tournaments and contests to see who can kill the most mining ships or battle each other to see who will remain standing.
EVE is a game where players use the tools provided to make their own fun, which is not an easy concept for most folks to grasp. But once you get good at it you'll find it hard to go play a traditional theme park game where you feel you are just going through the motions.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Obviously you lost all faith in EVE, so I suggest you go look for something else
If you are interested in subscription or PCU numbers for MMORPG's, check out my site :
http://mmodata.blogspot.be/
Favorite MMORPG's : DAoC pre ToA-NF, SWG Pre CU-NGE, EVE Online
Good choice. Eve is not a perfect game by far but most likely the best MMORPG of 2009.
However it should be stated that the game is mainly for hardcore gamers as it requires quite alot of time investment to be fully enjoyable.
Also some elements like the UI is archaich and horrible. No idea why it hasnt been overhauled after all these years.
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EVE is a worthy winner. It's a pretty excellent game if you can find good people to play with and can stand the dull combat.
I was also glad to hear it has over 300.000 subscribers now. Pretty remarkable for a game released as a buggy piece of indie crap in 2003.
The trolls whining about EVE being so old and cry that WoW wasn't chosen are ignorant to the fact that WoW is younger than EVE by a few months only, making WoW a 2003 game, as well.
Irony is delicious.
WTFPWNED!
Nice one there , gratz to CCP and all of the players... it is truly a great game that had the courage and the ballz to follow another path in this "clone" industry.
Life is a game - Play it!...
It is a sandbox game and sandbox are defined by possibilities where as themeparks are defined by restrictions. That is why most themepark games have a huge subscriber base at start only to dwindle down to less than 50% of what it was at launch.
Aion, WAR, CO, AoC are all examples of that and WoW one of the few exceptions. Reason is that sandbox games is what you make it to be (if the devs gives you good tools) where as themepark games is that the devs make it to be and devs can only crunch out that much content.
However it is much easier to make a profitable themepark MMORPG than a profitable sandbox and probably why most devs go for themeparks. Its easy money even though the game tanks after a while (AoC, WAR).
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Same here.
You see, it's like other ppl tell, think of it as number of votes.
Another example : If the game is crap (IMHO) and boring (Yes, this is my thoughts about it) I do not pay for it, if I like it I'll pay and play. So why subscriptions don't say anything?!
What's so good about the game that very very unfriendly to new players? What's so good about wasting 5-8 monthes to start playing normally?!
If you ask me, no, I dont play WoW, but I think it's a great game since population grows there, compared to other games. Even if not they still have 10-20 times more ppl than any other mmo.
This site and forum becomes more and more like WoW haters habitat. Even rating on this site shows this game is not top one, while every non-idiot gamer knows that's not true. Since the majority of mmo players still play it and like it I believe. (Why should ppl play something they don't like?).
I wonder how can it be that game having 270 000 of subscribers at the beginning, then raising it to 10 000 000+ can't be the best?
______________________________________
You Are Not Tifa, Cloud, Aeris, Barret, Red XIII, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Sephiroth or even Cid.
Not Any Other FF Character.
eve expansions are better. what exactly did tbc offer that was new? more of the same lvls, more of the same monsters with different skins. more of the same spells, more of the same dungeons, more of the same gear. the game didn't change in any way when tbc came out. it was still the same. sure we lvld to 70, but it was the same as the lvling before. and once we got to the new endgame it was just like the endgame before. the one new thing was we now had mounts, which could fly. wotlk was the same. nothing new. same old lvling, raiding and mobs. they didn't even make new mobs, just took the old ones and re-skinned them...
edit: forgot the death knight...
admittedly some eve expansions also sucked but most offered actual new stuff. take apocrypha, and wormholes. a new exploration system, and new space to explore. a whole new ai for the npcs to give pve a pvp feel. and a haven for pirates to roam wormwhole space and ransom those trying to get rich there. not to mention t3 ships, a whole new chain of customizable ships.
thing is its a sandbox. with their expansions they don't add new rides, they add new tools. and innovative players can do all sorts of stuff with new tools.
that's how capital ships made it into the game and capital warfare was introduced. player operated stations, sovereignty, alliances and much more.
with the number of people paying for wow and for all the expansions i cant believe the crap blizzard keep throwing out. i mean for a game that old why the hell don't they make a new graphics engine? wanna know why it lags when your in dalaran? not cause your graphics card wasn't good enough, but cause the engine cant use it. eve did it on much smaller resources, and it was yet another expansion, which as you say didn't come nowhere near the quality of wow? they made a new graphics engine! i really don't see why wow hasn't done it already.
but as i said, most eve expansions bring actual NEW stuff into the game, where wow expansions are just more of the same.
ok now im curious, why the hell doesn't Blizzard make a new graphical engine for wow, they are gonna need it (or are probably already making one) for the new MMO they are making.
Also, I never thought of EvE's expansions as an expansion at all, just a big patch. Nothing really new, just a few ships, modules.
No wonder they are free.
______________________________________
You Are Not Tifa, Cloud, Aeris, Barret, Red XIII, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Sephiroth or even Cid.
Not Any Other FF Character.
formula: McDonalds : WOW = Italian food : Eve
What's better? MC-D or Italian Food?
This reward really doesn't belong to EVE, as EVE is a game where there is only three things to do. Kill, mine and wait for skills to go up. Seriously, this game is all about waiting, it doesn't even have manual ship controls, how dumb is that?
But I will say it's a beautiful game and I could spend just hours exploring space, still, the rest is all a bunch of junk.
If you all disagree with me, stop and think, you decide to mine, you must wait to fill up your cargo hold. You try to kill something, target it, orbit around it, and shoot it, and wait for it to die. You need to skill up, just wait and you'll skill up.
But I suppose if they add a feature which allows me to actually leave my ship and fight on land, I may consider playing it.
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
as for those thinking of joining, yes the game is not new player frendly. They are improving the new player experience, but don't expect much.
and don't worry about not being able to catch up because of the SP system. see its not very long its very wide. you can only train so far in one category, then you have to go train something else. so the key word is to specialize. for example lets say it takes you one month to specialize in frigates. then you have to go an train something else. and lest say you fight a veteran playing for years. he is specialized in frigates and battleships and carriers and mother-ships and all sorts of ships, but right now he is in a frigate. and all those skillpoints aren't helping him. you are completely equal skillpoints wise, because you are both maxed out in frigates. and the fact he can fly all sorts of ships wont help him.
so the only difference is, that he can chose between different ships, and you can only pick one, but you are completely equal.
think of it as being able to train a warrior and a mage on the same character in wow, but you can only play one at a time. now older players will have all of the classes leveled and at the login screen they can pick whatever they want. you only managed to lvl one in the month that you have been playing so you only get to pick the one class. but once both of you have loged in, you are completely equal, and the fact he has all the other classes leveld as well, isn't helping him.
all of this doesn't really matter though as skillpoints really don't make much of a difference against people who know how to play. there is a video of a dude who got banned, so he and his friend made a trial and after a couple of hours of training skillpoints they made a pvp video. you would be amazed what a few hour old characters in eve can do.
edit: found it:http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1025677
so don't listen to people telling you how you cant pvp until you have a shitload of skillpoints. that's bullshit and their pussies.
you can only train one character per account, and vets from 0.0 wars make alts on those accounts, they don't train them, they just have the initial skillpoints they get upon creation, and then they join rvb (red versus blue), which is a sort of free pvp in cheap ships in high security space.
so don't be afraid to start pvping, its the best thing the game has to offer, and it actually kinda sucks without it.
just don't fly what you cant afford to lose
I think its important to offer an alternate view point regarding some key issues raised by others in this thread.
RMT
On the subject of RMT, yes, EVE has ISK farmers and sellers, and CCP does a good job fighting them on a daily basis. The war will never be won, but CCP does manage to keep them in check.
Regarding their own sales of ISK, they don't do it. Players within the game can trade extra ISK that they've earned to other players for GTC's, which of course are purchased by others from CCP. This does make a profit for CCP, but does not introduce any new ISK into the economy.
Real Time Skill Point Training
I'm not going to lie, you either love this or hate it, normally directly related on how much free time you have to play MMORPG's. In my own case, I think its the greatest thing to ever come along, finally a mechanic that doesn't reward people just because they have more free time than me. I probably will never stop playing this game just because of this mechanic.
As others have pointed out though, this does not mean that a person can never "catch" up and be competitive per sec. All ships and professions have a finite number of skills that affect them, and they all can be maximized in about a year or less. (Titans not included) The only advantage a long term veteran has is he (or she) will be able to fly a wider variety of ships or perform well in more professions, (exploration, mining, trading etc) A person does not need to excel in every ship or profession to enjoy playing EVE, though of course, in the first 6 months your choices will seem to be a bit limited.
IMO, resets are not necessary (not that I've seen all that many games do them) and though I've only been playing 2.5 years now, I don't feel disadvantaged in any way to those who have played from beta. In fact, in my corp we have a number of beta players and I exceed them in total wealth and can fight better than them because they chose the way of the industrialist. (but boy can they build a great capital ship)
Multiple Accounts
Its true, I have three, so I guess people have them. I also had 5 DAOC accounts, 3 WOW accounts, and 3 Lineage 2 accounts. I'm a multi-boxer and enjoy playing this way. Do I need 3 accounts? No, as another person mentioned, you can work collectively with other players to accomplish what I do solo on my own. (I tend to be anti-social somewhat) But in the end, what is wrong if a game is so enjoyable that you want to purchase more than 1 account? I call it a bonus rather than view it negatively as others do. But a nice feature is that you can pay for your extra accounts by trading ISK for GTC's, something a new player won't do but right now I earn enough ISK in a single night's WH OP to purchase a months time. (and yes, WH's did add a lot to the game, from T3 ships to an excellent way for casual players to earn ISK hand over fist, which was another great bonus for me)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.
Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.
Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.
Ermm.. he is trying to say you forgot how awesome exploring is in EvE. Exploring is probably the coolest thing to do in eve. There are really cool things to see in EvE that not many players get to see. So really there is four things to do, Explore, Kill, Mine/craft, and wait for skills. However killing is huge in Eve, I mean alliance warfare, pirating, random bump ins. and other moments. You put killing in such a vague way. It is much more then just killing.... Ohh also the economy in EvE is pretty big.
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.
Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.
Ermm.. he is trying to say you forgot how awesome exploring is in EvE. Exploring is probably the coolest thing to do in eve. There are really cool things to see in EvE that not many players get to see. So really there is four things to do, Explore, Kill, Mine/craft, and wait for skills. However killing is huge in Eve, I mean alliance warfare, pirating, random bump ins. and other moments. You put killing in such a vague way. It is much more then just killing.... Ohh also the economy in EvE is pretty big.
While I have no doubt that the community and politics of the game are interesting, the combat is dull and rather lifeless. It's who has the bigger guns, has spent more isk and who has the better latency/fps(although I suppose this is also the case for every other computer game out there). And if EVE's only positive is exploring, it needs work. I'll also give EVE a point for a nice economy.
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
so, you are saying the trinity graphics up grade was just a patch?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EzuaNfYn0s
Where does exploring fit into killing, mining, and waiting for skills?
I'm not sure what your getting at, exploring doesn't really fit in with either three, but that's not a bad thing.
Unless you're not trying to be witty, I'm not sure what you're trying to do/be.
Your original comment stated that there are only 3 things to do in EvE. You followed it up with an activity that does not fit in any of the "only" things you can do in EvE. It's a bit of a contradiction and that is why i isolated the two comments so that would be easier to see.
Ultimately, the larger point is that there are more then 3 things to do. As many have said, EvE is sandbox heavy and therefore, the players drive the game. I can play the market which is fairly instant and does not involve killing or mining (though I could be skilling up while I play the market of course). I can explore, which does not involve killing or mining (although, thanks to the wonders of real-time skilling, I could again be doing this at the same time). I could be fulfilling courier contracts which, if I were on auto-pilot would involve waiting I guess.
Point is, this is just off the top of my head and someone who is more involved in more areas of EvE could probably expand on this list even further. Never mind whether you personally enjoy these activities. By all means, if you don't like the mechanics and design choices of the game then fine. No one can argue with your opinion and personal preferences. But, stating there are only three things though is a misrepresentation
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
My thoughts exactly. I'm usually not very fond of awards, but I have to admit EvE deserves this reward more than any other MMO.
CCP has vision, passion, lucidity, a high level of professionalism, and knows and understands what their players want and need.
I wish everybody in the MMO world could reach that level of quality. Thumbs up!
This is so absurd.. how on earth could you not recognize the greatest MMO gateway drug of them all. It has to be the game of the year; 60 million players, billions of clicks on cows and chickens and corn and such. Mouse clicks and daily logins tell the whole story, but you deny them?
You disrespect all the Farmville loyalists. This is a sad day, how dare you make my virtual sheep cry.. and heck, even the sheep playing World of McDonaldscraft are crying for the Farmville folks. They can sympathize, user base means a lot. I mean it is just like when I bring my McDonalds to work and someone questions me on why I'm eating that garbage.. I just shrug them off and think, " billions of burgers sold, this is the best of the best, hands down because numbers don't lie."
You have no credibility left. Good day sir!
/snicker
BTW grats EVE.
so, you are saying the trinity graphics up grade was just a patch?
So they updated 3d models. Nothing special, many games did that.
Also EvE's graphical engine was updated like 3 times, even after that it's still crappy (technically), it still uses 90%-80% of CPU, not GPU. So even if you have some uber GTX295 or something else this game lags (visually) as hell.
Well except this patch, other patches was tiny and never felt like Expansion at all.
______________________________________
You Are Not Tifa, Cloud, Aeris, Barret, Red XIII, Vincent, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Sephiroth or even Cid.
Not Any Other FF Character.
that was a design decision. the idea is that it would not be a twitch based game, so a game where the person with better reflexes wins (like say a shooter), but a game where a smarter person would win. so you win by thinking, and having better ideas (though interceptor fights are quite fast paced).
also you misunderstood the scale. you aren't flying a ship small enough to be able to fly it "manually" as you put it. think of it more like enterprise where you set a direction or orbit and then play with shields and weapons.
but i completely agree with you. eve is that kind of a game, and i can understand that it will not be for everyone. the game does indeed take time, planing and thinking, and not everyone wants that. i enjoy it but not all the time, i doubt anyone does. sometimes i just want to start a game of unreal and shoot everything that moves, screw thinking.
but sometimes i want to play eve, think about what i am going to do, and then win cause i was smarter and had a better idea. or lose cause my idea sucked, and go back to the drawing board and come up with a better strategy.
even CCP realizes that and that is why they decided to make the complete opposite of eve, but still in the eve universe. they are making a MMOFPS, with instant gratification in the eve universe. you will be a soldier running on the planets of eve shooting guns and flying fighters (the kind of ship flying you meant), and fighting for control of planets in eve, for sovereignty purposes of eve players. so eve players fight for region control, and for that they need to control the planets, and that's how scenarios for the fps are created.
so you get the exact opposite of eve, in the eve universe
but don't say the game is bad just cause its not twitch based, there are players out there who prefer this kind of a game.
so yeah, the ships are a few kilometers in length...so no joystick control
found link: eve ship sizes:http://go-dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/SFC/EVE-ships_large.jpg
But as to your original point, there's only 3 things to do, I'd venture to say that's pretty much true of most MMO's, but not EVE.
Eve also has in depth crafting, a great trading mechanic, exploration, and of course, kill things in a variety of ways, from missions, to rats in systems, to sleepers, to of course, other players, which is what the game is all about. Some players run schools to train new players or players in combat, others run banks, others manage empires in 0.0 space (almost a ful time job) while others run mission running organizations. Some folks are ruthless pirates while others are paid mercenaries who terrorize high sec space for fun and profit. Some people even host tournaments and contests to see who can kill the most mining ships or battle each other to see who will remain standing.
EVE is a game where players use the tools provided to make their own fun, which is not an easy concept for most folks to grasp. But once you get good at it you'll find it hard to go play a traditional theme park game where you feel you are just going through the motions.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon