I always liked perfecting the art of using the jump shot in kite mode. It added a facet to the game that gave advantage to those who had a bit of skill imo. But im not hard set on it. It was mostly a soloers skill anyway.
This is a prime example as to why jumping should be left out (or blocked in combat mode atleast), because its exploited in combat.
The kiting jump shot is no more an exploit than the kiting itself.
lol theres an old saying "dont try to shit a shitter" If you have not heard it, it means you cant feed me full of BS because I know what BS is. Thats exploiting the jumping system plain and simple. I am also good at arguing faulty game features in my favor but i know an exploit when I see one.
Just because you say its an exploit does not make it so. In real life an excellent archer could probably make a jump shot. It would be very difficult, but against a reasonably sized target not impossible. So what makes doing the same thing in an mmo an exploit?
I'll say with utmost certainty that if the pacing of those battles follows through to retail, the game will bomb hard. PS. It seems players still can't jump? Sigh.
No you cannot jump, there is no reason too, but there is a possibility that swimming and climbing may be added later.
Do remember though that FFXI has been in the #2 spot under WoW this entire time for population and popularity...its different thus there is a huge community of gamers that enjoy this slow style, just like there is a huge community of gamers that enjoy the bunny-hopping madness of WoW. All the other western MMOs that just copy & paste WoW don't last because gamers already have WoW and why play a clone that does nothing new when you have WoW which does everything way better for that style!
I don't think this is necessarily true. FFXI has one major thing going for it, and thats the platforms its been released on. They did something right when they brought this to the PS2, and again to PS3. The additional ports and severe lack of MMOs on a console system really helps in making the game popular.
WoW is great for what it is, but WoW won't be popular forever. As big companies start looking into the genre, we're going to see some great MMOs in the next few years, and I think FFXIV will be the first of many great ones to come.
Enough with the jumping already, the major part about that type of gameplay is falling and dieing... that doesn't happen in SquareEnix land. If you think it's ridiculous that FFXI won't have jumping/falling, then you probably never played a Final Fantasy game before. Remember this IP has been around way longer than any mmorpg, and I have full confidence in SE to provide the next best mmorpg for me and alot of other FF fans out there.
Just because you say its an exploit does not make it so. In real life an excellent archer could probably make a jump shot. It would be very difficult, but against a reasonably sized target not impossible. So what makes doing the same thing in an mmo an exploit?
I am not going to continue to argue with you, I just have this final thing to say, If you can kite and run and jump shoot or w/e your doing all the while keeping yourself out of attack range, and keeping same pace as if you never stopped running, Thats an exploit. I dont know the specifics of what your doing nor do I care.
I am no saint when it comes to this I am just as guilty of exploiting faulty game features and I know one when i see/hear it, but ill only lie about it when its important. I have fell through maps and killed full raid bosses multiple times with 3-4 people and it couldnt hit us but we could nuke it. I knew that was a major exploit but I argued it wasnt. Just like cliff killing Its an exploit. An archer could sit on a clif IRL and shoot arrows and kill something on the ground just because it could be done IRL doesnt make it a non exploit.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Just because you say its an exploit does not make it so. In real life an excellent archer could probably make a jump shot. It would be very difficult, but against a reasonably sized target not impossible. So what makes doing the same thing in an mmo an exploit?
I am not going to continue to argue with you, I just have this final thing to say, If you can kite and run and jump shoot or w/e your doing all the while keeping yourself out of attack range, and keeping same pace as if you never stopped running, Thats an exploit. I dont know the specifics of what your doing nor do I care.
I am no saint when it comes to this I am just as guilty of exploiting faulty game features and I know one when i see/hear it, but ill only lie about it when its important. I have fell through maps and killed full raid bosses multiple times with 3-4 people and it couldnt hit us but we could nuke it. I knew that was a major exploit but I argued it wasnt. Just like cliff killing Its an exploit. An archer could sit on a clif IRL and shoot arrows and kill something on the ground just because it could be done IRL doesnt make it a non exploit.
Jump shot kiting is nothing like what you describe. In fact you can do almost exactly the same thing (if you have good ping) by just being quick about how you stop and turn and fire. Or you could do the same thing by just getting a run speed buff from someone, which I will go out on a small limb and assume is a part of FF as it is a part of almost every other mmo out there. But what the jump shot really adds is a bit of style to the kite, and a bit more fun.
Just because you say its an exploit does not make it so. In real life an excellent archer could probably make a jump shot. It would be very difficult, but against a reasonably sized target not impossible. So what makes doing the same thing in an mmo an exploit?
I am not going to continue to argue with you, I just have this final thing to say, If you can kite and run and jump shoot or w/e your doing all the while keeping yourself out of attack range, and keeping same pace as if you never stopped running, Thats an exploit. I dont know the specifics of what your doing nor do I care.
I am no saint when it comes to this I am just as guilty of exploiting faulty game features and I know one when i see/hear it, but ill only lie about it when its important. I have fell through maps and killed full raid bosses multiple times with 3-4 people and it couldnt hit us but we could nuke it. I knew that was a major exploit but I argued it wasnt. Just like cliff killing Its an exploit. An archer could sit on a clif IRL and shoot arrows and kill something on the ground just because it could be done IRL doesnt make it a non exploit.
Jump shot kiting is nothing like what you describe. In fact you can do almost exactly the same thing (if you have good ping) by just being quick about how you stop and turn and fire. Or you could do the same thing by just getting a run speed buff from someone, which I will go out on a small limb and assume is a part of FF as it is a part of almost every other mmo out there. But what the jump shot really adds is a bit of style to the kite, and a bit more fun.
I'd have to agree that the jump-shot-kite isn't an exploit, not that it has anything to do with anything pertaining to the topic, and I apologize for the digression, but it isn't a flawed mechanic. Jumping and turning in the air isn't flawed, and lots of games have it, all your doing in the middle of it is pressing an extra button. The exploit would be if you could auto-macro it. Otherwise its just a very specialized skill that many people have used in more then a few games. Is it an intended tactic by the developers? Perhaps... most likely not, but it doesn't break any core game mechanics like falling through the floor or hiding in a wall as other exploits do. Just my take on the issue.
In the case of FFXIV, I have to agree with the statement that jumping is not necessary. Ignoring spin-offs, Final Fantasy emphasized menu-based gameplay over action combat, and it makes sense considering how players in these games engage in battles.
I can't think of good reasons for FFXIV to implement jumping. More action? Sometimes I get bored playing MMORPGs. When it happens, I switch to Street Fighter or Modern Warfare. Being able to jump in WoW and use Light Feathers won't prevent me from looking to a game that's more action-oriented. More realism? I also don't find players jumping over heads and getting past-Lebron-James hangtime to be realistic.
Yes, jumping is important for other genres like platformers, especially hop-and-bop games like Mario and Sonic. Jumping also adds movement and evasion elements to action games, shooters, cross-genre MMOs, etc. That's good to know, but jumping for MMORPGs is about as essential as jumping for RTS games to me.
I think Aion made an effort where jumping can affect the chance of enemies landing hits, but I don't think Aion players care about it as an evasion technique when they have flying and falling to work with. Kind of like Barbarians in Diablo, Dragoons in FFXI have a jump skill that temporarily prevents them from getting hit.
Really, do characters in every game need to be able to jump? I enjoyed Legend of Zelda, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, and more without jumping. Being able to jump will not make or break Diablo 3, and the same goes for FFXIV.
In fact, I wonder if being able to jump in FFXIV does anything besides make the game play a bit more like WoW.
I really don't mind my character being unable to jump, as long as they do a good job designing the terrain to keep you from getting stuck in rocks ect. all the time.
I'm really looking forward to this game and am very pleased they didn't include auto attack like in FFXI. I think it will make for a lot more action paced game, while still maintaining the slow tactical combat.
Try looking at the map at 2:55 in - looks really massive - and thats only (hopefully ) a small portion of the map. Really enjoyed the developer videos, even though Tanaka Hiromichi didn't really look like he knew what he was doing
According to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wlf3JW1cxE there's not going to be an auto attack like there was in FFXI, so kiting will not likely be a viable tactic anyway.
From the looks of the combat system they want to combat the macro botting that plauged FFXI, because he also talks about an action meter that has to fill up before preforming an action.
Huh, I actually never noticed that before, so either that is a temp movement scheme mirroring that of FFXI, or it will be an option for us FFXI veterans that prefer Keyboard only controls with the 9-key pad...sahweet!
In fact, I wonder if being able to jump in FFXIV does anything besides make the game play a bit more like WoW.
Not being able to jump isn't a deal-breaker for me, but it is a negative. Jumping and falling are part of real life and immersive. Not being able to jump will make it feel more like a game, and less like a world.
I am also concerned about the apparent lack of collision detection. It's frikkin' 2010 already! We can't fight three mobs without them clipping through each other like that? Get serious. Screw shiney water and particle effects. Not every mob is a ghost.
Let's see some damned progress in gameplay.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Was no one else bothered that this guy was playing all 3 characters? Maybe you all aren't, but I'm sick and tired of botting. If a person would rather play 3 characters than spend the time to get to know the community, so he has 2 other real people playing, well...it just isn't a good first impression of Final Fantasy when that's the first thing I see.
Yeah. We are seeing a move towards solo-grouping. Giving soloers pets to make up for lack of grouping.
It's just wrong.
I want some games to move back towards actual multiplayer content.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
That is one thing that really hooked me about FFXI as well is the time it took to get places since most of it was on foot. Really made it feel like you were in a huge world; which it is, but ever more!
Unbelievable.
You could just walk, and let those who don't want to waste time (and money) get where we want to be.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
According to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wlf3JW1cxE there's not going to be an auto attack like there was in FFXI, so kiting will not likely be a viable tactic anyway. From the looks of the combat system they want to combat the macro botting that plauged FFXI, because he also talks about an action meter that has to fill up before preforming an action.
It wasn't too clear in the video, but is he pressing a button everytime he slashes those creatures? most MMORPGs has an autoattack hack/slash.
Originally posted by toddze "video games became popular because of jumping" What!?!? Are you serious? Jumping has nothing to do with the popularity of anything, other than basketball.
Tell that to Mario.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Originally posted by toddze another thing that gets me is people want jumping because its realistic. Right? However, nobody wants realistic jumping!!!!!
Untrue. I would be fine with realistic jumping.
Nothing realistic about no jumping at all.
What century are we in, anyway?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
This is a prime example as to why jumping should be left out (or blocked in combat mode atleast), because its exploited in combat. When your in combat jumping is not practical. People say being glued to the ground breaks realism, well I say seing people bounce around the screen/ and in combat is just as much as a realism breaker if not more so.
No problem. Make it a realistic height and put it on a cooldown.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Does anyone know if you will need a 5 man party to kill a bunny like FFXI? I loved the original but the 1+ hours looking for parties eventually caused me to leave, I only have so much time to play and LFG is not how I would like to spend it.
Comments
Its the same thing, theres multiple variations to it.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
This is a prime example as to why jumping should be left out (or blocked in combat mode atleast), because its exploited in combat.
The kiting jump shot is no more an exploit than the kiting itself.
lol theres an old saying "dont try to shit a shitter" If you have not heard it, it means you cant feed me full of BS because I know what BS is. Thats exploiting the jumping system plain and simple. I am also good at arguing faulty game features in my favor but i know an exploit when I see one.
Just because you say its an exploit does not make it so. In real life an excellent archer could probably make a jump shot. It would be very difficult, but against a reasonably sized target not impossible. So what makes doing the same thing in an mmo an exploit?
No you cannot jump, there is no reason too, but there is a possibility that swimming and climbing may be added later.
Do remember though that FFXI has been in the #2 spot under WoW this entire time for population and popularity...its different thus there is a huge community of gamers that enjoy this slow style, just like there is a huge community of gamers that enjoy the bunny-hopping madness of WoW. All the other western MMOs that just copy & paste WoW don't last because gamers already have WoW and why play a clone that does nothing new when you have WoW which does everything way better for that style!
I don't think this is necessarily true. FFXI has one major thing going for it, and thats the platforms its been released on. They did something right when they brought this to the PS2, and again to PS3. The additional ports and severe lack of MMOs on a console system really helps in making the game popular.
WoW is great for what it is, but WoW won't be popular forever. As big companies start looking into the genre, we're going to see some great MMOs in the next few years, and I think FFXIV will be the first of many great ones to come.
Enough with the jumping already, the major part about that type of gameplay is falling and dieing... that doesn't happen in SquareEnix land. If you think it's ridiculous that FFXI won't have jumping/falling, then you probably never played a Final Fantasy game before. Remember this IP has been around way longer than any mmorpg, and I have full confidence in SE to provide the next best mmorpg for me and alot of other FF fans out there.
LMAO. Still no jumping and having to travel for 5 minutes to get around a rock
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Updated the OP.
Just because you say its an exploit does not make it so. In real life an excellent archer could probably make a jump shot. It would be very difficult, but against a reasonably sized target not impossible. So what makes doing the same thing in an mmo an exploit?
I am not going to continue to argue with you, I just have this final thing to say, If you can kite and run and jump shoot or w/e your doing all the while keeping yourself out of attack range, and keeping same pace as if you never stopped running, Thats an exploit. I dont know the specifics of what your doing nor do I care.
I am no saint when it comes to this I am just as guilty of exploiting faulty game features and I know one when i see/hear it, but ill only lie about it when its important. I have fell through maps and killed full raid bosses multiple times with 3-4 people and it couldnt hit us but we could nuke it. I knew that was a major exploit but I argued it wasnt. Just like cliff killing Its an exploit. An archer could sit on a clif IRL and shoot arrows and kill something on the ground just because it could be done IRL doesnt make it a non exploit.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Just because you say its an exploit does not make it so. In real life an excellent archer could probably make a jump shot. It would be very difficult, but against a reasonably sized target not impossible. So what makes doing the same thing in an mmo an exploit?
I am not going to continue to argue with you, I just have this final thing to say, If you can kite and run and jump shoot or w/e your doing all the while keeping yourself out of attack range, and keeping same pace as if you never stopped running, Thats an exploit. I dont know the specifics of what your doing nor do I care.
I am no saint when it comes to this I am just as guilty of exploiting faulty game features and I know one when i see/hear it, but ill only lie about it when its important. I have fell through maps and killed full raid bosses multiple times with 3-4 people and it couldnt hit us but we could nuke it. I knew that was a major exploit but I argued it wasnt. Just like cliff killing Its an exploit. An archer could sit on a clif IRL and shoot arrows and kill something on the ground just because it could be done IRL doesnt make it a non exploit.
Jump shot kiting is nothing like what you describe. In fact you can do almost exactly the same thing (if you have good ping) by just being quick about how you stop and turn and fire. Or you could do the same thing by just getting a run speed buff from someone, which I will go out on a small limb and assume is a part of FF as it is a part of almost every other mmo out there. But what the jump shot really adds is a bit of style to the kite, and a bit more fun.
Just because you say its an exploit does not make it so. In real life an excellent archer could probably make a jump shot. It would be very difficult, but against a reasonably sized target not impossible. So what makes doing the same thing in an mmo an exploit?
I am not going to continue to argue with you, I just have this final thing to say, If you can kite and run and jump shoot or w/e your doing all the while keeping yourself out of attack range, and keeping same pace as if you never stopped running, Thats an exploit. I dont know the specifics of what your doing nor do I care.
I am no saint when it comes to this I am just as guilty of exploiting faulty game features and I know one when i see/hear it, but ill only lie about it when its important. I have fell through maps and killed full raid bosses multiple times with 3-4 people and it couldnt hit us but we could nuke it. I knew that was a major exploit but I argued it wasnt. Just like cliff killing Its an exploit. An archer could sit on a clif IRL and shoot arrows and kill something on the ground just because it could be done IRL doesnt make it a non exploit.
Jump shot kiting is nothing like what you describe. In fact you can do almost exactly the same thing (if you have good ping) by just being quick about how you stop and turn and fire. Or you could do the same thing by just getting a run speed buff from someone, which I will go out on a small limb and assume is a part of FF as it is a part of almost every other mmo out there. But what the jump shot really adds is a bit of style to the kite, and a bit more fun.
I'd have to agree that the jump-shot-kite isn't an exploit, not that it has anything to do with anything pertaining to the topic, and I apologize for the digression, but it isn't a flawed mechanic. Jumping and turning in the air isn't flawed, and lots of games have it, all your doing in the middle of it is pressing an extra button. The exploit would be if you could auto-macro it. Otherwise its just a very specialized skill that many people have used in more then a few games. Is it an intended tactic by the developers? Perhaps... most likely not, but it doesn't break any core game mechanics like falling through the floor or hiding in a wall as other exploits do. Just my take on the issue.
In the case of FFXIV, I have to agree with the statement that jumping is not necessary. Ignoring spin-offs, Final Fantasy emphasized menu-based gameplay over action combat, and it makes sense considering how players in these games engage in battles.
I can't think of good reasons for FFXIV to implement jumping. More action? Sometimes I get bored playing MMORPGs. When it happens, I switch to Street Fighter or Modern Warfare. Being able to jump in WoW and use Light Feathers won't prevent me from looking to a game that's more action-oriented. More realism? I also don't find players jumping over heads and getting past-Lebron-James hangtime to be realistic.
Yes, jumping is important for other genres like platformers, especially hop-and-bop games like Mario and Sonic. Jumping also adds movement and evasion elements to action games, shooters, cross-genre MMOs, etc. That's good to know, but jumping for MMORPGs is about as essential as jumping for RTS games to me.
I think Aion made an effort where jumping can affect the chance of enemies landing hits, but I don't think Aion players care about it as an evasion technique when they have flying and falling to work with. Kind of like Barbarians in Diablo, Dragoons in FFXI have a jump skill that temporarily prevents them from getting hit.
Really, do characters in every game need to be able to jump? I enjoyed Legend of Zelda, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, and more without jumping. Being able to jump will not make or break Diablo 3, and the same goes for FFXIV.
In fact, I wonder if being able to jump in FFXIV does anything besides make the game play a bit more like WoW.
I really don't mind my character being unable to jump, as long as they do a good job designing the terrain to keep you from getting stuck in rocks ect. all the time.
I'm really looking forward to this game and am very pleased they didn't include auto attack like in FFXI. I think it will make for a lot more action paced game, while still maintaining the slow tactical combat.
Try looking at the map at 2:55 in
- looks really massive - and thats only (hopefully 
) a small portion of the map. Really enjoyed the developer videos, even though Tanaka Hiromichi didn't really look like he knew what he was doing 
According to this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wlf3JW1cxE there's not going to be an auto attack like there was in FFXI, so kiting will not likely be a viable tactic anyway.
From the looks of the combat system they want to combat the macro botting that plauged FFXI, because he also talks about an action meter that has to fill up before preforming an action.
Notice the use of the KEYBOARD only to maneuver!
SWEET!
Huh, I actually never noticed that before, so either that is a temp movement scheme mirroring that of FFXI, or it will be an option for us FFXI veterans that prefer Keyboard only controls with the 9-key pad...sahweet!
Not being able to jump isn't a deal-breaker for me, but it is a negative. Jumping and falling are part of real life and immersive. Not being able to jump will make it feel more like a game, and less like a world.
I am also concerned about the apparent lack of collision detection. It's frikkin' 2010 already! We can't fight three mobs without them clipping through each other like that? Get serious. Screw shiney water and particle effects. Not every mob is a ghost.
Let's see some damned progress in gameplay.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Yeah. We are seeing a move towards solo-grouping. Giving soloers pets to make up for lack of grouping.
It's just wrong.
I want some games to move back towards actual multiplayer content.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Unbelievable.
You could just walk, and let those who don't want to waste time (and money) get where we want to be.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
It wasn't too clear in the video, but is he pressing a button everytime he slashes those creatures? most MMORPGs has an autoattack hack/slash.
Tell that to Mario.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Untrue. I would be fine with realistic jumping.
Nothing realistic about no jumping at all.
What century are we in, anyway?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
No problem. Make it a realistic height and put it on a cooldown.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
well in that case they may as well put in an emote for jump because that's about as useful as it would be if it was "realistic"
Then why is jumping useful in real life?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Then why is jumping useful in real life?
escaping from cops?
Does anyone know if you will need a 5 man party to kill a bunny like FFXI? I loved the original but the 1+ hours looking for parties eventually caused me to leave, I only have so much time to play and LFG is not how I would like to spend it.