Just so you know there's a sticky now at the top of the list to discuss this topic. Quick question for you though, why would they need both PVE and PVP servers if it's simply a co'op rpg?
This question was asked of me in a locked forum so I will answer without getting a warning. (well try to anyways). This is slightly off main topic so ill try to tie it in to the actuall topic to avoid being banned. To answer this question properly I would need to know the rule sets of the PvE server and PvP server. I dont think no one is disputing that there will be open areas to do things like farm and just do some things that you just do, am I wrong? Since I think that, PvE has to be seperated from pvp type stuff, even if it just farming. No PvE'er likes watching their back wherever they go. Theres some PvP'ers who like that type of thing.
My reason for considering this more of an Online rpg rather than that of an MMO is because if you go right to the main site click the most advertised feature its story driven. So thats obviously the bread and butter of this game. That story can be done all by yourself if you choose, and in your own instance. So your essentially following a story in an "mmo" that no one else is apart of if you so desire. Just because you throw in places where everyone can play together does not give it the term "massive" in my opinion any ways. will there only be 1 instance of those open areas? I dont know the answer to that question , if theres multiple instances of the same area, thats just another negative hit to massive IMO.
So for me to consider a game "massive." People have to work together, and compete against each other. Being able to hide in an instance isnt good. If someone is farming a certian area and your able to switch instances to see if same spot is being camped, thats a joke plain and simple. That to me takes "massive" out of a game, completly away. Instances are only good in an online rpg, because a "true MMO" would have enough content to spread enough people out all over a single game world. I am not all aginst instances, IF instance are used only 1 group should be able to that instance at a time just sometimes it makes since. Again there should be enough content that theres not a bottleneck at that one place, such that other groups can find content to do.
I hope I followed the new rules.
This kind of goes back to my post just a few posts back. There are very few games out there that do not have instances. Some have less instances then others, some have more. The difference is mainly what they use these instances for. There is no indication saying that a majority of the missions will be instanced. The only evidence I have of even hearing about instances, would be that decision making flashpoints will be in your own instance. Flashpoints are part of open world levels. A kill 10 raiders quest will most likely be given in a flashpoint, but the mission will be carried out in the open world. Though -- what I really should stress -- is that its too early to tell exactly how it will all come together, but judging from what has been currently said, only flashpoints are instanced.
To Wharg0ul, you actually brought up an interesting point when you said, why even have quest text if people just click accept. I think thats one of the reasons BW has chosen the route they have with the story. Lets face it, BW is known for exceptional story elements, for them to create an MMORPG and not include story would be wasteful. For them to create a story and not have it mean something, or have the player just click accept, it would be useless. Thats why so much of the mission, leveling, and progression system is being combined with the story. Your choices correlate directly with your character build. Those that just zip through won't get the benefit of building a character properly.
Just a separate observation I made while "zipping" through this thread.
If SWTOR was clearly an MMOG, the staff in here wouldn't need to step in and silence the forumers. The game would defend itself. This shows the guys in charge are worried about it, so there must be some truth to people's claims.
Not really, people are not used to the information flow being so divided like this. I admit it's a bit strange but it is it so bad? If anything, it tells me BioWare is company only releasing information when it's ready instead of saying "yeah we'll have this and all these other features" and delivering only half of them. So the lack of talking about grouping and the world(s) has got people a bit scared if this will be a true MMO or not. I'm not going to doubt BioWare, if they say it's a MMO I'll believe it's a MMO, they've been a rather honest company so far, I highly doubt they would lay their reputation on the line knowingly lying.
It's not about them lying or not. It's about how this game will be played.
Also, people in general are not less used to information given in any form than you.
From what I have read it seems that the game will basically be a normal mmorpg, but with an AoC styled single player part as they had in tortage for the hero story arc. For me I don't see how thats a problem, in fact the whole 'everyones a hero' thing has been a problem for mmo's and this at least keeps everyone else's heroness out of my world.
But the rest of the game seems pretty standard, they have a companion thing which I think a lot of people are going way over the top on, I just don't think this is what people think it is, which atm seems to be an afk fight mode.
From everything I've read it seems it will be a decent mmo, if not great. Only time will tell.
----- The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
If by "traditional" you mean no story, offering boring "kill x amount of boars" quests where the only options for interaction with NPC's are accept, turn in, buy and sell, and the only decisions you make that have any bearing whatsoever on your game experience happen just after you press the "create new charecter" button, then no.
I think we can safely say we're all done with "traditional" mmog's anyway. Seriously. Been there, done that, got six t-shirts and a full set of epic nonsense that everyone and thier mother has too.
If the first thing i'm asked to do when I start this game is kill 38 jawas and return to the quest giver, who will then send me to the next town where I will get 3 more quests to kill more jawas, some sand people and a kathound pack backed up by some lame one paragraph backstory that noone reads anyway i'm seriously going to rage.
If SWTOR was clearly an MMOG, the staff in here wouldn't need to step in and silence the forumers. The game would defend itself. This shows the guys in charge are worried about it, so there must be some truth to people's claims.
Not really, people are not used to the information flow being so divided like this. I admit it's a bit strange but it is it so bad? If anything, it tells me BioWare is company only releasing information when it's ready instead of saying "yeah we'll have this and all these other features" and delivering only half of them. So the lack of talking about grouping and the world(s) has got people a bit scared if this will be a true MMO or not. I'm not going to doubt BioWare, if they say it's a MMO I'll believe it's a MMO, they've been a rather honest company so far, I highly doubt they would lay their reputation on the line knowingly lying.
It's not about them lying or not. It's about how this game will be played.
Also, people in general are not less used to information given in any form than you.
Well apparently they are if their still debating if it will be a true MMO or not, or their not listening to what BioWare has been saying. Did anybody question WAR when it claimed to be a MMO? Not that recall. I'm pretty sure it will be an MMO and even more so then most recent MMOs. I'm thinking the world will be much like WoWs a bit open and linear at the same time. Everything is played online, it's not like AoCs tortage. Flashpoint is just BW word for Instancing. BioWare is also going to utilize phasing much like Blizzard did.
A world for people to play in, with each other. The ability to adventure and explore while having key points of the story phased or instanced doesn't say "ToR is a SPRPG", I don't see the problem here. Not to mention the class arcs are suppose to be very short.
i voted no, but i do think its an MMOG. i just don't think it will be a "traditional" one wich is a good thing i'm REALLY sick of the stale same ol same ol.
I would think that if people did just a little research on TOR and pretty much in this thread alone, they will find that the game will have everything and more than any MMO that is out and coming out. Let's remember that the devs have said many times over and over they will not dicuss in detail anything about the game that is not finalised and 100% gonna be in the game at launch.
This is a very smart approach. How many other game devs haved promised the moon only then a few months before release scrap or shelve a whole bunch of things that were promised would be in the game at launch.
If SWTOR was clearly an MMOG, the staff in here wouldn't need to step in and silence the forumers. The game would defend itself. This shows the guys in charge are worried about it, so there must be some truth to people's claims.
Not really, people are not used to the information flow being so divided like this. I admit it's a bit strange but it is it so bad? If anything, it tells me BioWare is company only releasing information when it's ready instead of saying "yeah we'll have this and all these other features" and delivering only half of them. So the lack of talking about grouping and the world(s) has got people a bit scared if this will be a true MMO or not. I'm not going to doubt BioWare, if they say it's a MMO I'll believe it's a MMO, they've been a rather honest company so far, I highly doubt they would lay their reputation on the line knowingly lying.
It's not about them lying or not. It's about how this game will be played.
Also, people in general are not less used to information given in any form than you.
Well apparently they are if their still debating if it will be a true MMO or not, or their not listening to what BioWare has been saying. Did anybody question WAR when it claimed to be a MMO? Not that recall. I'm pretty sure it will be an MMO and even more so then most recent MMOs. I'm thinking the world will be much like WoWs a bit open and linear at the same time. Everything is played online, it's not like AoCs tortage. Flashpoint is just BW word for Instancing. BioWare is also going to utilize phasing much like Blizzard did.
A world for people to play in, with each other. The ability to adventure and explore while having key points of the story phased or instanced doesn't say "ToR is a SPRPG", I don't see the problem here. Not to mention the class arcs are suppose to be very short.
A world for people to play in, yes. With each other? If you mean playing and seeing other people around, yes. But if you mean playing together pursuing the same goal, it certainly doesn't look like this will happen.
A world for people to play in, yes. With each other? If you mean playing and seeing other people around, yes. But if you mean playing together pursuing the same goal, it certainly doesn't look like this will happen.
Why not? Is there a reason so many of you make claims ending without going into detail? Now I have to assume. I assume you're talking about soloing? You do understand you have all the freedom and limitations of every other player in a game, there are plenty just waiting for a group invite. I know I plan to make it happen.
While they said the game can be soloed if you choose, there will still be content that requires groups. Raiding, for example. You have your companion which makes it easier for you to solo, but if one companion is good, wouldn't two be better? Or three? Or four? There's still incentive to group, even if it's just with guildmates or friends. Just like any other modern MMO. There will be exploration, there will be PvP, there will be crafting, etc; Bioware has yet to release information on these aspects, that's all. In the end, we'll really have to wait until the game actually comes out, or Open Beta at the earliest. But I wouldn't be so eager to jump the gun and call it a single-player RPG with multiplayer features that you have to pay $15 a month for just yet.
wow, I was NOT expecting YES to be winning. Are these people just blind fanboys, or have they never played a real MMORPG? Seriously? This game is like the antithesis of EverQuest. Almost the entire game is single player, broken into scripted instances, with item shops, and NPC companions make it so you never need to socialize with anyone. Yeah that's traditional alright.
Wow, you got to play the game already?! How?
Unless, you're just trolling, which does sound more likely.
Are we following the same game? Because those are all things the devs have said themselves.
They said, specifically. 95% of the game is single player.
They made NPC companions so that you don't have to group with people.
The game is broken up into scripted instances you can invite a few friends into. (which, based on how the game is designed, will be people you know from OUTSIDE the game, because there's no real game world to bump into other players in. Think Diablo)
And it will probably have one big social hub to give it the illusion of an MMO, and some sort of instanced counterstrike like PvP arena.
Wow, you must not know the differance between a single player game and a mmo that will allow a person to solo, in which TOR will be. The instancing will be limitied to your personal story while talking to NPC's and will have flashpoints that if you choose will be be able to invite whomever you like. The rest of the game will be open world. The devs also said that it will be the players choice if they even want to advance their toon using the story. They also said that leveling up could be done with open world missions solo or grouped and if you choose to go down that path the player would miss out on half of the game content.
One of the devs recently said you would do your story, that will be the first thing you do and finish, after that comes all the group content, before they announced the name of their MMO (SWTOR) they said it would have lots and lots of group and end game content. 95% of the game is soloable, they're referring to the leveling process. It's not really my problem you need your hand held in finding a group. Thankfully MMOs are breaking away from forced grouping, isn't square doing the same with the new FF?
I'm sorry you see instancing that way. So in your opinion. ToR should release with out it? So when I'm on a planet and I'm about to do the "kill or save the captain" quest I should spend a few hours flying there, then I should have to share the same ship with 100s of others standing in line waiting to kill the captain? That doesn't sound very fun. MMOs are not a replacement for life, it's a game. If you want one of those games you speak of go play them, just remember you fall into a niche crowd.
Blatantly coming in here and trolling when I explicitly stated it would not be tolerated is probably not the best course of action.
Furthermore, those of you who in turn feed the trolls by retaliating are in just as much trouble. We're not here to argue who is or is not trolling. If someone comes in here and starts trolling simply report them and move on, you will be warned or worse, banned, for retaliating against them.
There are some people with an agenda who are inevitably going to come in here to troll. You do not need to feel the need to engage them, just report them.
You talk about group quests, which are, what, 5% of the quests in the game? Devs themselves said that 95% of the content you can do alone. So that leaves 5% that you are encouraged to group with people for. Awesome.
And no, instances aren't "the way to go". They are a lazy gimmick by lazy developers who don't want to properly design a game world. Much easier to break it all into instances instead of making full fledged games like Dark Age of Camelot (which had no spawn camping or zerg rushing, because it was designed well, not by lazy developers).
One of the devs recently said you would do your story, that will be the first thing you do and finish, after that comes all the group content, before they announced the name of their MMO (SWTOR) they said it would have lots and lots of group and end game content. 95% of the game is soloable, they're referring to the leveling process. It's not really my problem you need your hand held in finding a group. Thankfully MMOs are breaking away from forced grouping, isn't square doing the same with the new FF?
I'm sorry you see instancing that way. So in your opinion. ToR should release with out it? So when I'm on a planet and I'm about to do the "kill or save the captain" quest I should spend a few hours flying there, then I should have to share the same ship with 100s of others standing in line waiting to kill the captain? That doesn't sound very fun. MMOs are not a replacement for life, it's a game. If you want one of those games you speak of go play them, just remember you fall into a niche crowd.
To address this, the flashpoints would HAVE to be instanced for the story and game to work properly. It appears that you'll have so many different choices when it comes to your flashpoints, not to mention flashpoints while you're in a group and the relationship with your companion as well. Having hundreds of people running or queuing behind you breaks immersion, kills story, and frankly, would look ridiculous. I think the most honest thing I can say about this right now, not to mention the most obvious... We haven't seen this before in an MMO to date ... so, its easy to not know what to expect. This will be unlike anything we've played thus far in the genre, and BioWare knows that. Its obviously creating quite a stir in the community and I also think thats why BioWare is doing it. So, either we can take what BioWare says at face value, or we can't. At this time, and with what I've read and seen, I have no reason to doubt them.
1) SW:TOR will have a series of one shot instances for each class (each character can initiate or finish their classes instances, in order, once with his or her character as the star . . . more than once with other characters of the same class initiating the instance with your character as a supporting character).
2) Each class has a series of instances where the choices made by the main character (the initiator) effect the main characters choices later in the same instance or in other, subsequent, instances (of that main character). The supporting characters (other players) are along for the ride.
2.1 Note: Each story instance can only be initiated or completed once before moving on to the next story instance (just like a quest chain). I am sure there will be level or skill requirements for the story instances along the quest chain. I am sure you can go on another character's of the same class story instance as a supporting character.
3) For there to be supporting characters along a story instance players will need the option of meeting other players.
3.1 Note: It is beyond ridicules to assume each of the planets will be instance only. Players will be able to wander around and meet other players on these planets. I am sure these planets will be chuck full of traditional monsters, loot, and whatnot. There will be crafting, auction houses and a player economy.
4) This is a MMORPG with a set of one-shot keys per character of a given class to unlock a series of instances along a quest chain. I am sure some of the quest chains content will include out of instances adventure as well (especially to collect perquisites for instances). This is a neat idea. We will see folks clambering to join other classes instances to see the story bit, fight a particular boss as a particular class, or get some special loot drop. This will enforce replayability to a new level though community demand.
4.1 Example: I'll make a X for a play though, you make a Y, and you make a Z. That way we can all see the story bits, fight specific bosses, and get some cool loot.
Each character will have a quest chain of "choose your own adventure" class specific instances!
All I gotta say is I was right and to all the people that thought I was lying about the PCGAMER magazine can all go /headdesk
THis is going to redefine mmogaming. For too long mmog's relied on the player base to provide atmosphere to the world and it has failed all but two times (EQ1 and SWG). Its time for AI to start taking up the slack where players continue to destroy the immersion and make it feel like a grind in tow of the fanatic teenager seeking PHAT L00TZ.
All I gotta say is I was right and to all the people that thought I was lying about the PCGAMER magazine can all go /headdesk THis is going to redefine mmogaming. For too long mmog's relied on the player base to provide atmosphere to the world and it has failed all but two times (EQ1 and SWG). Its time for AI to start taking up the slack where players continue to destroy the immersion and make it feel like a grind in tow of the fanatic teenager seeking PHAT L00TZ.
i can't actually tell if what your saying is even positive, as it seems somehow very negative... if by some strange and odd chance your trying to say the game is going to be good, you've picked a very odd way to put it ... btw, you forgot Eve.. personally i think KOTOR Online is going to be.. .. .. boring..
I wish the OP's poll on page 1 had also offered the option:
[voting button] I sure hope not!
Because, frankly, I am not looking for something that resembles what we've already seen.
I have been playing Dragon Age: Origins a lot the past few weeks and, I must say, the more like DA:O and the less like a traditional MMOG that SWTOR turns out to be, the better I'll like it.
The best blend of SPRPG richness with MMORPG goodness that I've experienced to date was in Guild Wars. I really think if Bioware can come up with something along GW lines (only with the incomparable "Bioware touch") in SWTOR, they will have melded the best of both worlds and created a great game with lots of "staying power."
All I gotta say is I was right and to all the people that thought I was lying about the PCGAMER magazine can all go /headdesk THis is going to redefine mmogaming. For too long mmog's relied on the player base to provide atmosphere to the world and it has failed all but two times (EQ1 and SWG). Its time for AI to start taking up the slack where players continue to destroy the immersion and make it feel like a grind in tow of the fanatic teenager seeking PHAT L00TZ.
I'm not sure what you're implying here. SWTOR as far as I know will be a loot progression game. It might not be a constant everyday replace a epic treadmill like WoW, but it certainly has stat loot, meaning more numbers = better character.
All I gotta say is I was right and to all the people that thought I was lying about the PCGAMER magazine can all go /headdesk THis is going to redefine mmogaming. For too long mmog's relied on the player base to provide atmosphere to the world and it has failed all but two times (EQ1 and SWG). Its time for AI to start taking up the slack where players continue to destroy the immersion and make it feel like a grind in tow of the fanatic teenager seeking PHAT L00TZ.
I'm not sure what you're implying here. SWTOR as far as I know will be a loot progression game. It might not be a constant everyday replace a epic treadmill like WoW, but it certainly has stat loot, meaning more numbers = better character.
If you're not able to read this it says
Ancient Academy Lightsaber
Bound [Main Hand, Off Hand]
25-54 Energy Damage
Quality:Prototype
Required Level: 5(maybe 6)
Required Class: Sith
Range: 0-4m
+2 Strength
+5 Endurace
Are people really delusional enough to think that this game is going to be anything other than the basic eq type mmo with instancing and voice overs? This game is obviously loot-based and PvE based but will have side pvp like battlegrounds and stuff like that.
Personally I have kept this game on my radar since the rumors first began. Bioware is yet to hit a foul in my play book and I am looking forward to this game. A poster above mentioned the 'chose your own adventure' style quests that will tie into your main character and how they are more of a single player game experience, and honestly I like that idea. It makes me think of the storyline quests in AoC except you have choices you get to make that effect future missions.
Sure, these quests may be more solo oriented, but you can group up during them and the other players you're grouped with have a chance to interact as well. Then you'll also have all of the other side quests and open world stuff you'd have in your traditional MMO.
This game isn't only an MMO, and thus deserving of its place in this forum, it's the first step in the evolution of the genre.
The reason people are stressed out isn't very hard to infer. The implications of the success of such games many in our community constitute as being non-traditional MMOG's means the likelihood of the types of games or gameplay they enjoy from the MMOG genre will be less likely to appear in new games going forward.
...and the implication by another poster that this was somehow "evolution". Obviously I disagree.
You might disagree with the direction that the evolution is taking but that doesn't change it from being evolution.
That's not to say that evolution is always the right thing to do. Evolution can occur and then fail horribly. But then it starts up all over again. And at least it tries to make something new.
Half the complaints I see on these forums are that most MMORPGs are just clones of previous games and how developers never do anything innovative. Yet when a game like SWTOR tries to break those old molds, the other half of the forums start accusing it of not having hardcore/traditional/standard/whatever mechanics or of even being a MMORPG.
Trying something new usually means trying something that will make some people uncomfortable. That's not a bad thing.
Given the choice between doing that and just going back to previous mechanics that kept the MMORPG genre a niche market for so long, I'll pick trying something new. There are those who will disagree, but that won't stop it. That's why it's evolution.
All I gotta say is I was right and to all the people that thought I was lying about the PCGAMER magazine can all go /headdesk THis is going to redefine mmogaming. For too long mmog's relied on the player base to provide atmosphere to the world and it has failed all but two times (EQ1 and SWG). Its time for AI to start taking up the slack where players continue to destroy the immersion and make it feel like a grind in tow of the fanatic teenager seeking PHAT L00TZ.
I'm not sure what you're implying here. SWTOR as far as I know will be a loot progression game. It might not be a constant everyday replace a epic treadmill like WoW, but it certainly has stat loot, meaning more numbers = better character.
If you're not able to read this it says
Ancient Academy Lightsaber
Bound [Main Hand, Off Hand]
25-54 Energy Damage
Quality:Prototype
Required Level: 5(maybe 6)
Required Class: Sith
Range: 0-4m
+2 Strength
+5 Endurace
Are people really delusional enough to think that this game is going to be anything other than the basic eq type mmo with instancing and voice overs? This game is obviously loot-based and PvE based but will have side pvp like battlegrounds and stuff like that.
I really don't think you want to compare SW:TOR to EQ or even WoW for that matter. SW:TOR will have phat loot, but it won't require players to group or raid. You can attempt to solo missions as long as your of sufficient level to do so. So in a sense, expect a lot of farming to come from this game. Which is probably why it's going to have an abundance of instances, because farming in a non-instanced MMO = stagnant waiting lines for mission Bosses which is actually EQ style gaming.
My personal opinion is that SW:TOR will feel like Mass Effect but have MMO qualities and the ability to PvP and / or Raid.
I think there will be raiding and PvP content at the endgame. Which means pretty much like WoW.
Big solo fest to level/skill cap, then raid and PvP.
All the articles coming out of GDC seem to indicate that Bioware is allowing people to see the more traditional elements of MMORPGs that are in SWTOR. That might change some of the opinions of the poll.
The article at Darth Hater (2nd page) mentions exploring the open world and size of the zones in specific.
It sounds like SWTOR will have many of the familiar aspects of MMORPGs that people have come to expect along with the more innovative things like the story-driven content and choices. Just like Bioware has been saying all along, but at least now they're showing it.
Comments
This question was asked of me in a locked forum so I will answer without getting a warning. (well try to anyways). This is slightly off main topic so ill try to tie it in to the actuall topic to avoid being banned. To answer this question properly I would need to know the rule sets of the PvE server and PvP server. I dont think no one is disputing that there will be open areas to do things like farm and just do some things that you just do, am I wrong? Since I think that, PvE has to be seperated from pvp type stuff, even if it just farming. No PvE'er likes watching their back wherever they go. Theres some PvP'ers who like that type of thing.
My reason for considering this more of an Online rpg rather than that of an MMO is because if you go right to the main site click the most advertised feature its story driven. So thats obviously the bread and butter of this game. That story can be done all by yourself if you choose, and in your own instance. So your essentially following a story in an "mmo" that no one else is apart of if you so desire. Just because you throw in places where everyone can play together does not give it the term "massive" in my opinion any ways. will there only be 1 instance of those open areas? I dont know the answer to that question , if theres multiple instances of the same area, thats just another negative hit to massive IMO.
So for me to consider a game "massive." People have to work together, and compete against each other. Being able to hide in an instance isnt good. If someone is farming a certian area and your able to switch instances to see if same spot is being camped, thats a joke plain and simple. That to me takes "massive" out of a game, completly away. Instances are only good in an online rpg, because a "true MMO" would have enough content to spread enough people out all over a single game world. I am not all aginst instances, IF instance are used only 1 group should be able to that instance at a time just sometimes it makes since. Again there should be enough content that theres not a bottleneck at that one place, such that other groups can find content to do.
I hope I followed the new rules.
This kind of goes back to my post just a few posts back. There are very few games out there that do not have instances. Some have less instances then others, some have more. The difference is mainly what they use these instances for. There is no indication saying that a majority of the missions will be instanced. The only evidence I have of even hearing about instances, would be that decision making flashpoints will be in your own instance. Flashpoints are part of open world levels. A kill 10 raiders quest will most likely be given in a flashpoint, but the mission will be carried out in the open world. Though -- what I really should stress -- is that its too early to tell exactly how it will all come together, but judging from what has been currently said, only flashpoints are instanced.
To Wharg0ul, you actually brought up an interesting point when you said, why even have quest text if people just click accept. I think thats one of the reasons BW has chosen the route they have with the story. Lets face it, BW is known for exceptional story elements, for them to create an MMORPG and not include story would be wasteful. For them to create a story and not have it mean something, or have the player just click accept, it would be useless. Thats why so much of the mission, leveling, and progression system is being combined with the story. Your choices correlate directly with your character build. Those that just zip through won't get the benefit of building a character properly.
Just a separate observation I made while "zipping" through this thread.
Not really, people are not used to the information flow being so divided like this. I admit it's a bit strange but it is it so bad? If anything, it tells me BioWare is company only releasing information when it's ready instead of saying "yeah we'll have this and all these other features" and delivering only half of them. So the lack of talking about grouping and the world(s) has got people a bit scared if this will be a true MMO or not. I'm not going to doubt BioWare, if they say it's a MMO I'll believe it's a MMO, they've been a rather honest company so far, I highly doubt they would lay their reputation on the line knowingly lying.
It's not about them lying or not. It's about how this game will be played.
Also, people in general are not less used to information given in any form than you.
From what I have read it seems that the game will basically be a normal mmorpg, but with an AoC styled single player part as they had in tortage for the hero story arc. For me I don't see how thats a problem, in fact the whole 'everyones a hero' thing has been a problem for mmo's and this at least keeps everyone else's heroness out of my world.
But the rest of the game seems pretty standard, they have a companion thing which I think a lot of people are going way over the top on, I just don't think this is what people think it is, which atm seems to be an afk fight mode.
From everything I've read it seems it will be a decent mmo, if not great. Only time will tell.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
If by "traditional" you mean no story, offering boring "kill x amount of boars" quests where the only options for interaction with NPC's are accept, turn in, buy and sell, and the only decisions you make that have any bearing whatsoever on your game experience happen just after you press the "create new charecter" button, then no.
I think we can safely say we're all done with "traditional" mmog's anyway. Seriously. Been there, done that, got six t-shirts and a full set of epic nonsense that everyone and thier mother has too.
If the first thing i'm asked to do when I start this game is kill 38 jawas and return to the quest giver, who will then send me to the next town where I will get 3 more quests to kill more jawas, some sand people and a kathound pack backed up by some lame one paragraph backstory that noone reads anyway i'm seriously going to rage.
Sanity is a delusion. The only truth is madness.
Not really, people are not used to the information flow being so divided like this. I admit it's a bit strange but it is it so bad? If anything, it tells me BioWare is company only releasing information when it's ready instead of saying "yeah we'll have this and all these other features" and delivering only half of them. So the lack of talking about grouping and the world(s) has got people a bit scared if this will be a true MMO or not. I'm not going to doubt BioWare, if they say it's a MMO I'll believe it's a MMO, they've been a rather honest company so far, I highly doubt they would lay their reputation on the line knowingly lying.
It's not about them lying or not. It's about how this game will be played.
Also, people in general are not less used to information given in any form than you.
Well apparently they are if their still debating if it will be a true MMO or not, or their not listening to what BioWare has been saying. Did anybody question WAR when it claimed to be a MMO? Not that recall. I'm pretty sure it will be an MMO and even more so then most recent MMOs. I'm thinking the world will be much like WoWs a bit open and linear at the same time. Everything is played online, it's not like AoCs tortage. Flashpoint is just BW word for Instancing. BioWare is also going to utilize phasing much like Blizzard did.
A world for people to play in, with each other. The ability to adventure and explore while having key points of the story phased or instanced doesn't say "ToR is a SPRPG", I don't see the problem here. Not to mention the class arcs are suppose to be very short.
i voted no, but i do think its an MMOG. i just don't think it will be a "traditional" one wich is a good thing i'm REALLY sick of the stale same ol same ol.
I would think that if people did just a little research on TOR and pretty much in this thread alone, they will find that the game will have everything and more than any MMO that is out and coming out. Let's remember that the devs have said many times over and over they will not dicuss in detail anything about the game that is not finalised and 100% gonna be in the game at launch.
This is a very smart approach. How many other game devs haved promised the moon only then a few months before release scrap or shelve a whole bunch of things that were promised would be in the game at launch.
Not really, people are not used to the information flow being so divided like this. I admit it's a bit strange but it is it so bad? If anything, it tells me BioWare is company only releasing information when it's ready instead of saying "yeah we'll have this and all these other features" and delivering only half of them. So the lack of talking about grouping and the world(s) has got people a bit scared if this will be a true MMO or not. I'm not going to doubt BioWare, if they say it's a MMO I'll believe it's a MMO, they've been a rather honest company so far, I highly doubt they would lay their reputation on the line knowingly lying.
It's not about them lying or not. It's about how this game will be played.
Also, people in general are not less used to information given in any form than you.
Well apparently they are if their still debating if it will be a true MMO or not, or their not listening to what BioWare has been saying. Did anybody question WAR when it claimed to be a MMO? Not that recall. I'm pretty sure it will be an MMO and even more so then most recent MMOs. I'm thinking the world will be much like WoWs a bit open and linear at the same time. Everything is played online, it's not like AoCs tortage. Flashpoint is just BW word for Instancing. BioWare is also going to utilize phasing much like Blizzard did.
A world for people to play in, with each other. The ability to adventure and explore while having key points of the story phased or instanced doesn't say "ToR is a SPRPG", I don't see the problem here. Not to mention the class arcs are suppose to be very short.
A world for people to play in, yes. With each other? If you mean playing and seeing other people around, yes. But if you mean playing together pursuing the same goal, it certainly doesn't look like this will happen.
Why not? Is there a reason so many of you make claims ending without going into detail? Now I have to assume. I assume you're talking about soloing? You do understand you have all the freedom and limitations of every other player in a game, there are plenty just waiting for a group invite. I know I plan to make it happen.
While they said the game can be soloed if you choose, there will still be content that requires groups. Raiding, for example. You have your companion which makes it easier for you to solo, but if one companion is good, wouldn't two be better? Or three? Or four? There's still incentive to group, even if it's just with guildmates or friends. Just like any other modern MMO. There will be exploration, there will be PvP, there will be crafting, etc; Bioware has yet to release information on these aspects, that's all. In the end, we'll really have to wait until the game actually comes out, or Open Beta at the earliest. But I wouldn't be so eager to jump the gun and call it a single-player RPG with multiplayer features that you have to pay $15 a month for just yet.
Wow, you got to play the game already?! How?
Unless, you're just trolling, which does sound more likely.
Are we following the same game? Because those are all things the devs have said themselves.
They said, specifically. 95% of the game is single player.
They made NPC companions so that you don't have to group with people.
The game is broken up into scripted instances you can invite a few friends into. (which, based on how the game is designed, will be people you know from OUTSIDE the game, because there's no real game world to bump into other players in. Think Diablo)
And it will probably have one big social hub to give it the illusion of an MMO, and some sort of instanced counterstrike like PvP arena.
Wow, you must not know the differance between a single player game and a mmo that will allow a person to solo, in which TOR will be. The instancing will be limitied to your personal story while talking to NPC's and will have flashpoints that if you choose will be be able to invite whomever you like. The rest of the game will be open world. The devs also said that it will be the players choice if they even want to advance their toon using the story. They also said that leveling up could be done with open world missions solo or grouped and if you choose to go down that path the player would miss out on half of the game content.
One of the devs recently said you would do your story, that will be the first thing you do and finish, after that comes all the group content, before they announced the name of their MMO (SWTOR) they said it would have lots and lots of group and end game content. 95% of the game is soloable, they're referring to the leveling process. It's not really my problem you need your hand held in finding a group. Thankfully MMOs are breaking away from forced grouping, isn't square doing the same with the new FF?
I'm sorry you see instancing that way. So in your opinion. ToR should release with out it? So when I'm on a planet and I'm about to do the "kill or save the captain" quest I should spend a few hours flying there, then I should have to share the same ship with 100s of others standing in line waiting to kill the captain? That doesn't sound very fun. MMOs are not a replacement for life, it's a game. If you want one of those games you speak of go play them, just remember you fall into a niche crowd.
Blatantly coming in here and trolling when I explicitly stated it would not be tolerated is probably not the best course of action.
Furthermore, those of you who in turn feed the trolls by retaliating are in just as much trouble. We're not here to argue who is or is not trolling. If someone comes in here and starts trolling simply report them and move on, you will be warned or worse, banned, for retaliating against them.
There are some people with an agenda who are inevitably going to come in here to troll. You do not need to feel the need to engage them, just report them.
Stay on topic.
One of the devs recently said you would do your story, that will be the first thing you do and finish, after that comes all the group content, before they announced the name of their MMO (SWTOR) they said it would have lots and lots of group and end game content. 95% of the game is soloable, they're referring to the leveling process. It's not really my problem you need your hand held in finding a group. Thankfully MMOs are breaking away from forced grouping, isn't square doing the same with the new FF?
I'm sorry you see instancing that way. So in your opinion. ToR should release with out it? So when I'm on a planet and I'm about to do the "kill or save the captain" quest I should spend a few hours flying there, then I should have to share the same ship with 100s of others standing in line waiting to kill the captain? That doesn't sound very fun. MMOs are not a replacement for life, it's a game. If you want one of those games you speak of go play them, just remember you fall into a niche crowd.
To address this, the flashpoints would HAVE to be instanced for the story and game to work properly. It appears that you'll have so many different choices when it comes to your flashpoints, not to mention flashpoints while you're in a group and the relationship with your companion as well. Having hundreds of people running or queuing behind you breaks immersion, kills story, and frankly, would look ridiculous. I think the most honest thing I can say about this right now, not to mention the most obvious... We haven't seen this before in an MMO to date ... so, its easy to not know what to expect. This will be unlike anything we've played thus far in the genre, and BioWare knows that. Its obviously creating quite a stir in the community and I also think thats why BioWare is doing it. So, either we can take what BioWare says at face value, or we can't. At this time, and with what I've read and seen, I have no reason to doubt them.
1) SW:TOR will have a series of one shot instances for each class (each character can initiate or finish their classes instances, in order, once with his or her character as the star . . . more than once with other characters of the same class initiating the instance with your character as a supporting character).
2) Each class has a series of instances where the choices made by the main character (the initiator) effect the main characters choices later in the same instance or in other, subsequent, instances (of that main character). The supporting characters (other players) are along for the ride.
2.1 Note: Each story instance can only be initiated or completed once before moving on to the next story instance (just like a quest chain). I am sure there will be level or skill requirements for the story instances along the quest chain. I am sure you can go on another character's of the same class story instance as a supporting character.
3) For there to be supporting characters along a story instance players will need the option of meeting other players.
3.1 Note: It is beyond ridicules to assume each of the planets will be instance only. Players will be able to wander around and meet other players on these planets. I am sure these planets will be chuck full of traditional monsters, loot, and whatnot. There will be crafting, auction houses and a player economy.
4) This is a MMORPG with a set of one-shot keys per character of a given class to unlock a series of instances along a quest chain. I am sure some of the quest chains content will include out of instances adventure as well (especially to collect perquisites for instances). This is a neat idea. We will see folks clambering to join other classes instances to see the story bit, fight a particular boss as a particular class, or get some special loot drop. This will enforce replayability to a new level though community demand.
4.1 Example: I'll make a X for a play though, you make a Y, and you make a Z. That way we can all see the story bits, fight specific bosses, and get some cool loot.
Each character will have a quest chain of "choose your own adventure" class specific instances!
[Mod Edit]
All I gotta say is I was right and to all the people that thought I was lying about the PCGAMER magazine can all go /headdesk
THis is going to redefine mmogaming. For too long mmog's relied on the player base to provide atmosphere to the world and it has failed all but two times (EQ1 and SWG). Its time for AI to start taking up the slack where players continue to destroy the immersion and make it feel like a grind in tow of the fanatic teenager seeking PHAT L00TZ.
Yes, it seems like a real MMOG to me. If Global Agenda is on the list than this game absolutely needs to be on the list.
i can't actually tell if what your saying is even positive, as it seems somehow very negative... if by some strange and odd chance your trying to say the game is going to be good, you've picked a very odd way to put it ... btw, you forgot Eve.. personally i think KOTOR Online is going to be.. .. .. boring..
I wish the OP's poll on page 1 had also offered the option:
[voting button] I sure hope not!
Because, frankly, I am not looking for something that resembles what we've already seen.
I have been playing Dragon Age: Origins a lot the past few weeks and, I must say, the more like DA:O and the less like a traditional MMOG that SWTOR turns out to be, the better I'll like it.
The best blend of SPRPG richness with MMORPG goodness that I've experienced to date was in Guild Wars. I really think if Bioware can come up with something along GW lines (only with the incomparable "Bioware touch") in SWTOR, they will have melded the best of both worlds and created a great game with lots of "staying power."
I'm not sure what you're implying here. SWTOR as far as I know will be a loot progression game. It might not be a constant everyday replace a epic treadmill like WoW, but it certainly has stat loot, meaning more numbers = better character.
If you're not able to read this it says
Ancient Academy Lightsaber
Bound [Main Hand, Off Hand]
25-54 Energy Damage
Quality:Prototype
Required Level: 5(maybe 6)
Required Class: Sith
Range: 0-4m
+2 Strength
+5 Endurace
I'm not sure what you're implying here. SWTOR as far as I know will be a loot progression game. It might not be a constant everyday replace a epic treadmill like WoW, but it certainly has stat loot, meaning more numbers = better character.
If you're not able to read this it says
Ancient Academy Lightsaber
Bound [Main Hand, Off Hand]
25-54 Energy Damage
Quality:Prototype
Required Level: 5(maybe 6)
Required Class: Sith
Range: 0-4m
+2 Strength
+5 Endurace
Are people really delusional enough to think that this game is going to be anything other than the basic eq type mmo with instancing and voice overs? This game is obviously loot-based and PvE based but will have side pvp like battlegrounds and stuff like that.
Personally I have kept this game on my radar since the rumors first began. Bioware is yet to hit a foul in my play book and I am looking forward to this game. A poster above mentioned the 'chose your own adventure' style quests that will tie into your main character and how they are more of a single player game experience, and honestly I like that idea. It makes me think of the storyline quests in AoC except you have choices you get to make that effect future missions.
Sure, these quests may be more solo oriented, but you can group up during them and the other players you're grouped with have a chance to interact as well. Then you'll also have all of the other side quests and open world stuff you'd have in your traditional MMO.
This game isn't only an MMO, and thus deserving of its place in this forum, it's the first step in the evolution of the genre.
You might disagree with the direction that the evolution is taking but that doesn't change it from being evolution.
That's not to say that evolution is always the right thing to do. Evolution can occur and then fail horribly. But then it starts up all over again. And at least it tries to make something new.
Half the complaints I see on these forums are that most MMORPGs are just clones of previous games and how developers never do anything innovative. Yet when a game like SWTOR tries to break those old molds, the other half of the forums start accusing it of not having hardcore/traditional/standard/whatever mechanics or of even being a MMORPG.
Trying something new usually means trying something that will make some people uncomfortable. That's not a bad thing.
Given the choice between doing that and just going back to previous mechanics that kept the MMORPG genre a niche market for so long, I'll pick trying something new. There are those who will disagree, but that won't stop it. That's why it's evolution.
I'm not sure what you're implying here. SWTOR as far as I know will be a loot progression game. It might not be a constant everyday replace a epic treadmill like WoW, but it certainly has stat loot, meaning more numbers = better character.
If you're not able to read this it says
Ancient Academy Lightsaber
Bound [Main Hand, Off Hand]
25-54 Energy Damage
Quality:Prototype
Required Level: 5(maybe 6)
Required Class: Sith
Range: 0-4m
+2 Strength
+5 Endurace
Are people really delusional enough to think that this game is going to be anything other than the basic eq type mmo with instancing and voice overs? This game is obviously loot-based and PvE based but will have side pvp like battlegrounds and stuff like that.
I really don't think you want to compare SW:TOR to EQ or even WoW for that matter. SW:TOR will have phat loot, but it won't require players to group or raid. You can attempt to solo missions as long as your of sufficient level to do so. So in a sense, expect a lot of farming to come from this game. Which is probably why it's going to have an abundance of instances, because farming in a non-instanced MMO = stagnant waiting lines for mission Bosses which is actually EQ style gaming.
My personal opinion is that SW:TOR will feel like Mass Effect but have MMO qualities and the ability to PvP and / or Raid.
I think there will be raiding and PvP content at the endgame. Which means pretty much like WoW.
Big solo fest to level/skill cap, then raid and PvP.
All the articles coming out of GDC seem to indicate that Bioware is allowing people to see the more traditional elements of MMORPGs that are in SWTOR. That might change some of the opinions of the poll.
The article at Darth Hater (2nd page) mentions exploring the open world and size of the zones in specific.
darthhater.com/2010/03/15/gdc-trooper-hands-on-tor-game-play-impressions/
It sounds like SWTOR will have many of the familiar aspects of MMORPGs that people have come to expect along with the more innovative things like the story-driven content and choices. Just like Bioware has been saying all along, but at least now they're showing it.