... and if you don't think so, you're "in denial". So you dont think its good that they are adapting to what the players want? Some people just see the words free to play and hate it no matter what. More and more P2P MMOs are adding microtransacctions including WoW, that is wat you should worry about.
There are people who have tunnel vision on any subject and hate/love regardless of what is being discussed, but that doesn't make it right for someone to write an opinion piece and preemptively dismiss anyone who might have an opposing viewpoint before they have even responded. As if anyone who might have a differing viewpoint must fall into that category.
As for DDO going F2P and finding more success I don't think that is being disputed. How the author of the original article presents (or omits) information and opinions on the other hand....
Somehow DDO having 7 current servers is "unprecedented response" to a game that once had 14 servers, but I guess that is the spin when a failed subscription mmo is crowned king of the F2P mmos. What a mess.
So, considering DDO had 5 servers BEFORE going free-to-play, and they had to add 2 new servers in the first 2 months AFTER going f2p (thus the current 7), with the announcement that DDO now has hundreds of thousands of players with a 40% increase in monthly subscriptions alone (not including all the free players who are only buying the specific content they want), you don't think that is a pretty good response from the gaming community?
Originally posted by SnarlingWolf It is always great to see a game succeed, and DDO is doing that very easily at this point it seems.
But I still can't ever play a game model such as this. Anytime a game revolves around the principle that I spend hours earning something and then someone else walks up and opens his wallet and has all that and more instantly, I don't want to play it. I don't want to play in a world where people can buy their way to the top and buy their way to good gear etc etc. I leave sub mmos that I see too many people buying gold for, or too many bots grinding gold to sell. I don't want any part in those types of situations.
So as long as there is always pure sub MMOs around I will continue to play the genre, but if it ever reaches a point where one of those doesn't exist, it is the same time that I am done with MMOs.
I get that this model works for different people, those that want to have a fun game and never spend a cent, and those that have cash to burn and like being able to spend away to get to where they want to be quicker. But I'm neither of those.
That's EXACTLY how I feel. I want to play, casually, and be immune, or at least unfettered by, the types who throw hours or dollars at the game and spend the rest of their time waving their e-peens around screaming "Look at what I got!" Know what? That's great, but I am more interested in how we can help each other get what we all want. I'm not going to debate in what ways some nameless, faceless gamer is better than me. I'll save such contests for where they really matter, when we meet in public and actually engage each other in a true social medium. Any victories or losses I have in a social context while playing a game seem hollow and empty, but I still don't care to be bombarded by those who feel otherwise, or at least have deluded themselves into feeling so.
Dungeons and Dragons, as well as EVE Online, are the current gods of our F2P market, while Guild Wars is a fallen god that tried and failed.
The real demon of F2P is Entropia Universe, trying to sell Pay-To-Advance as Free-To-Play, and crowing about the several billion dollars it makes off a free game.
Now, Yes, EVE Online and DDO do have a lot of things similar about each other, and in both cases, that's what makes them work. PLEX systems, where you could earn your way to everything WITHOUT SPENDING ONE DOLLAR, work better than Entropia's system, where you can't buy a loaf of bread without checking your wallet.
When WoW goes F2P, Do you want them to go freemium, where you get told, after you get out of your opening zone, that you can't do anything since your wallet's still full? Or do you want it to be where you spend some of your money on accepting a quest, with a option of in-game or real?
First, I was a big naysayer since they announced the move to F2P sometime in early summer 2009 (Sarr can attest to my naysaying lol).
Second, as of last year that game was headed to certain doom if they did not have a huge influx of players/money -- no question about it. People were leaving the game left and right and Turbine made things worse by keeping all of their plans under wraps and very little content released in over a year.
Third, there's still a tenuous balance line Turbine has to walk between putting too many things for sale (i.e. buying one's way to the top, so to speak) and not selling anything meaningful enough.
Fourth, with the plethora of re-specing options Turbine has added, they sure hit a home run with existing subscribers and with the (ahem, ahem) grind required to get a completionist build many people will keep their subs alive until that game exists.
Fifth, Turbine has made a few changes to their content delivery system that makes it easier for them to churn out content every few weeks that is something every veteran welcomes with arms wide open. It allows them to make the proverbial hamster wheel bigger, so to speak.
From a purely objective perspective is hard to deny that F2P has been a resounding success (at least for DDO it has). Lots of game veterans have spent hundreds of dollars on that game that otherwise Turbine wouldn't have gotten. Add to that the massive influx of new players -- and possible revenue -- and you have a moribund game turn into a thriving cash cow that's here to stay and prosper.
From a subjective perspective, I think the game has improved in some ways :more content, re-spec options, etc. and gotten worse in others: lots of annoying kids, lots new players pretending they know a quest, lots of new players who don't bother to RTFM, changing the ruleset away from PnP D&D and adding game mechanics that do nothing but encourage more grinding (i.e. ToD boots, anyone?) . So far, IMO, the balance is tilting toward an overall positive experience, however, if they keep dumbing down the game to fit the plethora of newbs and toward not needing to group, I'll be the first one to can my sub -- which I'm well aware Turbine doesn't really care much about since the game went F2P.
Somehow DDO having 7 current servers is "unprecedented response" to a game that once had 14 servers, but I guess that is the spin when a failed subscription mmo is crowned king of the F2P mmos. What a mess.
So, considering DDO had 5 servers BEFORE going free-to-play, and they had to add 2 new servers in the first 2 months AFTER going f2p (thus the current 7), with the announcement that DDO now has hundreds of thousands of players with a 40% increase in monthly subscriptions alone (not including all the free players who are only buying the specific content they want), you don't think that is a pretty good response from the gaming community?
The mess I was speaking of was that a game that wasn't doing very well in the subscription market won the best F2P award. That says something.
A 40% increase is huge, but 40% of what? 40% of a number that wasn't very large to begin with may not be as impressive when viewed in total.
Hundreds of thousands of players (plural) living on 7 servers? I somehow doubt that. Once a game allows free to play, it is easy to play fast and loose with the number of players, since your account is never really canceled in a free game.
Again, not to say that DDO has not had some impressive success. I think it will be a while until we see how the lasting success pans out. I may sound like a critic, but that is just because I can't find the right words. I have nothing for or against ddo and remain curious how it ends up once the ambiguous PR dies down.
Making it F2P doesn't change the core problem - the game still doesn't live up to its name. If anything, making you pay for goodies makes it even more un-D&D.
So, the listing over at the official D&D website of over 300 different products including novels, Player's handbooks, Monster Manuals, DM guides, character sheets, miniatures, Supplementary Class handbooks, Supplementary Weapon handbooks, Pre-made Campaigns, etc...are all being given away for free by Wizards of the Coast? They mail you these things for free whenever they make a new product?
Cause the last time I looked into those you had to buy them, and as far back as I can remember you ALWAYS had to buy them.
Making a one-time purchase of a D&D product has never earned you the ability to gain follow-up products for free...not unless you made the content yourself.
Dungeons and Dragons, as well as EVE Online, are the current gods of our F2P market, while Guild Wars is a fallen god that tried and failed. The real demon of F2P is Entropia Universe, trying to sell Pay-To-Advance as Free-To-Play, and crowing about the several billion dollars it makes off a free game. Now, Yes, EVE Online and DDO do have a lot of things similar about each other, and in both cases, that's what makes them work. PLEX systems, where you could earn your way to everything WITHOUT SPENDING ONE DOLLAR, work better than Entropia's system, where you can't buy a loaf of bread without checking your wallet.
When WoW goes F2P, Do you want them to go freemium, where you get told, after you get out of your opening zone, that you can't do anything since your wallet's still full? Or do you want it to be where you spend some of your money on accepting a quest, with a option of in-game or real?
Huh? LOLWUT? Gw is hardly a failure. They were the first to make a ftp model truely work and still maintain a decent player base. Last I looked ( about 2 months ago) they were still selling over 20k campaigns/month. Not big on predictions but I think GW2 will be huge!. There is a large, faithful player base that will return in addition to the current player base.
I love how Richard always tries to spin everything F2P as some huge positive. As if DDO was a really successful game and the months of deep silence leading up to the switch to F2P model was the result of how well DDO was doing.
I noticed that, too. I'm pretty sure I remember DDO not doing very well, at all. The F2P move seemed to have been a last-ditch effort to keep the game from going under... I don't know that for fact, but all the signs surrounding it seem to indicate as much.
I think there's more to consider in the fact that DDO was originally designed as a P2P MMO that then went F2P. For certain, making it F2P didn't suddenly make it a better game or improve its mechanics, etc. It simply made it a game that people were more willing to give a chance... 'cause it's free. They don't spend a single red cent on it if they don't want to. People like free things, after all.
As usual, Mr. Aioshi is being disingenuous and doing his usual spin-job on the topic. After all, we're talking about a guy who freely takes pot shots at people who don't like F2P; who declares anyone who doesn't love F2P as he does to be "in denial". Basically, he comes across like your typical mmorpg.com fanboy, blindly defending their pet game against any and all criticism and hyping it to the sky... only Aioshi does it for an entire genre. It doesn't even sound like turbine has a solid grasp on how to make F2P work yet. Talking about it being "a learning experience" and not really knowing how much to charge or give away doesn't sound like something someone would do to a game that is doing well, but as with all things in the Free Zone, everything free to play is a victory.
... and if you don't think so, you're "in denial". Somehow DDO having 7 current servers is "unprecedented response" to a game that once had 14 servers, but I guess that is the spin when a failed subscription mmo is crowned king of the F2P mmos. What a mess.
Spin-tastic indeed.
QFT!
Signed,
Another P2P MMO player "in denial"
That being said, there is no doubt that DDO has made a turnaround with the new model. As much as I dislike the F2P model, I cannot argue that, IMO, it seems to fit the D&D in an online world dynamic better than a standard sub based model.
Gather a group and knock out some modules and you don't have to pay a penny. Want to check out a new module, pay a small fee and gather your friends to play the new module. Much like the old P&P days. It just seems like a more intuitive payment structure for the IP that goes along with it.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
It is always great to see a game succeed, and DDO is doing that very easily at this point it seems.
But I still can't ever play a game model such as this. Anytime a game revolves around the principle that I spend hours earning something and then someone else walks up and opens his wallet and has all that and more instantly, I don't want to play it. I don't want to play in a world where people can buy their way to the top and buy their way to good gear etc etc. I leave sub mmos that I see too many people buying gold for, or too many bots grinding gold to sell. I don't want any part in those types of situations.
So as long as there is always pure sub MMOs around I will continue to play the genre, but if it ever reaches a point where one of those doesn't exist, it is the same time that I am done with MMOs.
I get that this model works for different people, those that want to have a fun game and never spend a cent, and those that have cash to burn and like being able to spend away to get to where they want to be quicker. But I'm neither of those.
You obviously have no clue what your talking about. You can't buy your way to the top. You have to earn all the top gear. You can't spend hours days or months reaching the top of the game for free either. But hitting the "buy" button doesn't auto mean top either. You still have to complete all the raid requirements and do the actual raid multiple times to get the gear. You aren't buying gear in DDO your buying adventure packs which contain alot of peices you wouldn't even know those quests are missing if you dont buy the adventure packs since none of the free content even leads too them.
People who just flat out hate on cash shops on principle will never like cashshops or freemium models they are heavily biased and won't change their minds. People with some sort of sense can see between the scam Asian models of buy your way to the top and the more western approach of customization and quest content purchases.
So does DDO offer no potions or xp boosts for money? There you go buying your way to the top.
Can you buy sigils much easier then grinding them out? There you go buying your way to the top.
Be a fan, I'm all for it, but don't jump on people who aren't just because you are.
If you can tell me that all you get from DDO cash shops is cosmetic only then I will be proved wrong, if not (which you can't) then I stand by my opinions 100%.
I as a player have limited money I can invest in games or subscriptions,, under a subscription based game its either "ALL OR NOTHING" either i like the game more than any other and subscribe or its 2nd place or lower and looses.
now with a "free to play" model its a bit different I am able to be much more dynamic and adaptive if im just skimping by I can still play just not buy any extras but if I get a payday or tax check ect. this allows me to buy extras in equipment and expansion packs. I believe strongly that this works in the game companies favor as I am more apt to spend more than a base subscription.
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now as for DDO....
sorry dudes your world is too darn small what you have is a small city of dungeons and that might roll for D&D the company
but thats NOT how most table top gamers play D&D.. D&D has a whole WORLD to explore with interesting things in the cities and villages along the way players might get several "epic" level quests that may take them to the far reaches of the world this mah entail 10-20 thread quests but ALONG THE WAY they may encounter dozens even hundreds of side quests DDO has none of that appeal.
even the world that they choose SUCKS (which i could make sucks bigger) but you probably got it cheap or made it yourself instead of using a univeraly recognized map with all the supporting maps and books and guides.
you cant do anything not directly related to combat theres no crafting hell you cant even sit in a chair and enjoy an ale.
I would love to play D&D again its just that DDO is boring hack and slash.
make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.
Huh? LOLWUT? Gw is hardly a failure. They were the first to make a ftp model truely work and still maintain a decent player base. Last I looked ( about 2 months ago) they were still selling over 20k campaigns/month. Not big on predictions but I think GW2 will be huge!. There is a large, faithful player base that will return in addition to the current player base.
Guild Wars is a failure for the same reason FFXI was a failure...
It's a group of WoW raids disguised as possibly single-player content, and it only gets worse as you get further along, since the level cap isn't even recognised by the enemies, but you're locked to it.
The entire of Guild Wars: Eye of the North is set up so you're effectively constantly in a party or dead.
Not a good gameplay model, even if you get it for free.
Dungeons and Dragons, as well as EVE Online, are the current gods of our F2P market, while Guild Wars is a fallen god that tried and failed.
EVE Online?? I think you got your wires crossed somewhere... Eve is not F2P. Sure it has a free trial like most other P2P, but the game is P2P and it doesn't even have an endless trial that a few P2P now have.
Huh? LOLWUT? Gw is hardly a failure. They were the first to make a ftp model truely work and still maintain a decent player base. Last I looked ( about 2 months ago) they were still selling over 20k campaigns/month. Not big on predictions but I think GW2 will be huge!. There is a large, faithful player base that will return in addition to the current player base.
Guild Wars is a failure for the same reason FFXI was a failure...
It's a group of WoW raids disguised as possibly single-player content, and it only gets worse as you get further along, since the level cap isn't even recognised by the enemies, but you're locked to it.
The entire of Guild Wars: Eye of the North is set up so you're effectively constantly in a party or dead.
Not a good gameplay model, even if you get it for free.
That's a bunch of pure BS. You don't like Guild Wars, that's fine, but is a massive success. No matter how much spin you put on it it has sold over 6 million copies. If that is a failure then every game other than WoW is a failure.
.... now as for DDO.... sorry dudes your world is too darn small what you have is a small city of dungeons and that might roll for D&D the company but thats NOT how most table top gamers play D&D.. D&D has a whole WORLD to explore with interesting things in the cities and villages along the way players might get several "epic" level quests that may take them to the far reaches of the world this mah entail 10-20 thread quests but ALONG THE WAY they may encounter dozens even hundreds of side quests DDO has none of that appeal. What? Pen and Paper D&D does NOT offer a whole world to explore any more than DDO does.
In P&P D&D you had huge MAPS... and what happened? Most of the Hexes were 'empty'. They contained wandering monsters from a table rolled at random? "You are moving northward through the forest and..." *Roll Roll* "...you are attacked by an Orc Warband!"
That is not exploring - that is time filling. And you didn't and couldn't stop to explore those hexes either - you could only explore the hexes where your GM had generated content (designed a dungeon) and put the time in to that. In that way DDO is exactly like P&P D&D. even the world that they choose SUCKS (which i could make sucks bigger) but you probably got it cheap or made it yourself instead of using a univeraly recognized map with all the supporting maps and books and guides.
Just like P&P D&D eventually they will 'fill in the gaps'. I played 2nd edition D&D and that world was full of holes too. I watched it grow through later additions (which I never bought in most cases BTW). In one case I designed a whole quest series for my players and a later expansion from TSR (IIRC?) was in the same area of the world and 'overwrote' my stuff... well it would have if I had brought it ;-) you cant do anything not directly related to combat theres no crafting hell you cant even sit in a chair and enjoy an ale. Wrong. The crafting is basic - granted. But D&D was never about crafting when I played? Maybe later editions?
And you can have an ale. My characters guzzle Brown Broth like it is soda water (should probably die less?) I would love to play D&D again its just that DDO is boring hack and slash. Play a rogue or magic user.
Just for the record - the purpose of this post is not to 'defend DDO'. I am not a 'Fanboi'. But I would now call myself a Fan.
The difference is that I can see the faults in the game. Overall though DDO is headed in the right direction.
The revenue model and the 'Graphical Lobby Game' / 'Managed Instance' style engine does actually work for the D&D IP.
In that respect DDO is unique and other companies will no doubt attempt to copy it and fail with no clue why? Part of the thing that makes it work is that DDO has the content to back up that model now. A game with less content probably wouldn't get away with it.
For those that say about player buying their way to the top? The top of what? DDO is all about running dungeons - just like D&D was. There is no 'top'?
I have always been against cash shops, and F2P titles, but in all honestly DDO is extremely well done and has made me rethink my old ways. This is a really impressive title that I had written off in beta, and has become one of my favorite games out there. Bravo, bravo.
The thing to remember here is that DDO has far more content than all the other f2p games out there. Most of the f2p games out there could not use the DDO model because of this.
So the model then is, make a full fledged MMO, and set it up to be FTP/Sub option based right from the start, and it can work. Did I get that right. I dunno, but it probably will be tried, and there is no reason to fret about it. The customers will decide.
Bleh, my warped mind thinks that if you have good content, you can sell it just about any way. If you don't have good content it doesn't matter what your choices are. If DDO is turning things around, it isn't because of the cash shop its because they improved the content. And maybe the FTP was just a way for people to sample that new content more easily. But what do I know.
Nevertheless, since I don't mind being somewhat self-contradictory, I do agree with others who think that offering multiple ways to pay for the game seems, from a business point of view, like common sense. Customers like options. Heck, people who don't like it when others can buy xp potions and level faster, etc, hey, that's ok. You have your vote, it would be totally wrong for you to "pretend" otherwise by playing in spite of it. That would skew the market unnaturally.
Just wait people. Time will prove what works and what doesn't. Maybe we will all (whoever IS playing, LOL) be playing by the hour in 4-5 years. I certainly don't know, and neither do the rest of you. 12 years ago I would have laughed if someone suggested the sub model. Six years ago I would have laughed if someone suggested FTP.
It doesn't really matter what we think so much. What matters is what people pay for. I am tired of arguing about the business model. (But a short rest I am sure I will be back at it!) Let me see some good content for a change.
Dungeons and Dragons, as well as EVE Online, are the current gods of our F2P market, while Guild Wars is a fallen god that tried and failed.
EVE Online?? I think you got your wires crossed somewhere... Eve is not F2P. Sure it has a free trial like most other P2P, but the game is P2P and it doesn't even have an endless trial that a few P2P now have.
You don't have to pay real money. You can buy game time with ISK.
I don't want to play in a world where people can buy their way to the top and buy their way to good gear etc etc.
The only gear you can actually buy in DDO is crap. Better off getting it as loot or buying it in the auction house. Of course some things are over-the-top expensive but if you shop the bargains and take a gander from time to time you can usually find a pretty sweet deal. I wonder if those people selling X item for a bazillion platinum ever actually sell anything, lol. They're not getting my fake money at those prices!
I'm buying the game slowly but surely, one module at a time. Then, someday, while the VIP's are still forking out 15 bucks a month I'll just be waiting for a new module to come out.
So what are you going to do when the day comes when all MMO's have flexible pay models? Go back to pen and paper? Hey, that's not a bad idea.
I love how Richard always tries to spin everything F2P as some huge positive. As if DDO was a really successful game and the months of deep silence leading up to the switch to F2P model was the result of how well DDO was doing. It doesn't even sound like turbine has a solid grasp on how to make F2P work yet. Talking about it being "a learning experience" and not really knowing how much to charge or give away doesn't sound like something someone would do to a game that is doing well, but as with all things in the Free Zone, everything free to play is a victory. Somehow DDO having 7 current servers is "unprecedented response" to a game that once had 14 servers, but I guess that is the spin when a failed subscription mmo is crowned king of the F2P mmos. What a mess.
I'd love to see an article that talks about why free realms isn't free anymore or anything that doesn't try to make everything look like roses in the f2p market.
Somehow DDO having 7 current servers is "unprecedented response" to a game that once had 14 servers, but I guess that is the spin when a failed subscription mmo is crowned king of the F2P mmos. What a mess.
The Game had only 5 servers for a long time, they added 2 since the servers were becoming full when all the new f2p players joined.
The problems with DDO go back to its development, not its revenue model. The D&D name and some of its aspects were incorporated, then bastardized. The bastardization drove away the masses of people that would have played under the subscription model. Repeatable quests, rest shrines versus random encounters, lack of content, zero outdoor adventures, a single city, and more poor development decisions made the game basically un-D&D. Making it F2P doesn't change the core problem - the game still doesn't live up to its name. If anything, making you pay for goodies makes it even more un-D&D.
Plenty of outdoor stuff now though. And I'll bet odds are you bought a module or two back in the days of Pen and Paper. No? So I guess you did all of them yourself. You get a gold star.
It is always great to see a game succeed, and DDO is doing that very easily at this point it seems.
But I still can't ever play a game model such as this. Anytime a game revolves around the principle that I spend hours earning something and then someone else walks up and opens his wallet and has all that and more instantly, I don't want to play it. I don't want to play in a world where people can buy their way to the top and buy their way to good gear etc etc. I leave sub mmos that I see too many people buying gold for, or too many bots grinding gold to sell. I don't want any part in those types of situations.
I love how Richard always tries to spin everything F2P as some huge positive. As if DDO was a really successful game and the months of deep silence leading up to the switch to F2P model was the result of how well DDO was doing.
I noticed that, too. I'm pretty sure I remember DDO not doing very well, at all. The F2P move seemed to have been a last-ditch effort to keep the game from going under... I don't know that for fact, but all the signs surrounding it seem to indicate as much.
I think there's more to consider in the fact that DDO was originally designed as a P2P MMO that then went F2P. For certain, making it F2P didn't suddenly make it a better game or improve its mechanics, etc. It simply made it a game that people were more willing to give a chance... 'cause it's free. They don't spend a single red cent on it if they don't want to. People like free things, after all.
As usual, Mr. Aioshi is being disingenuous and doing his usual spin-job on the topic. After all, we're talking about a guy who freely takes pot shots at people who don't like F2P; who declares anyone who doesn't love F2P as he does to be "in denial". Basically, he comes across like your typical mmorpg.com fanboy, blindly defending their pet game against any and all criticism and hyping it to the sky... only Aioshi does it for an entire genre. It doesn't even sound like turbine has a solid grasp on how to make F2P work yet. Talking about it being "a learning experience" and not really knowing how much to charge or give away doesn't sound like something someone would do to a game that is doing well, but as with all things in the Free Zone, everything free to play is a victory.
... and if you don't think so, you're "in denial". Somehow DDO having 7 current servers is "unprecedented response" to a game that once had 14 servers, but I guess that is the spin when a failed subscription mmo is crowned king of the F2P mmos. What a mess.
It is always great to see a game succeed, and DDO is doing that very easily at this point it seems.
But I still can't ever play a game model such as this. Anytime a game revolves around the principle that I spend hours earning something and then someone else walks up and opens his wallet and has all that and more instantly, I don't want to play it. I don't want to play in a world where people can buy their way to the top and buy their way to good gear etc etc. I leave sub mmos that I see too many people buying gold for, or too many bots grinding gold to sell. I don't want any part in those types of situations.
So as long as there is always pure sub MMOs around I will continue to play the genre, but if it ever reaches a point where one of those doesn't exist, it is the same time that I am done with MMOs.
I get that this model works for different people, those that want to have a fun game and never spend a cent, and those that have cash to burn and like being able to spend away to get to where they want to be quicker. But I'm neither of those.
That's EXACTLY how I feel. I want to play, casually, and be immune, or at least unfettered by, the types who throw hours or dollars at the game and spend the rest of their time waving their e-peens around screaming "Look at what I got!" Know what? That's great, but I am more interested in how we can help each other get what we all want. I'm not going to debate in what ways some nameless, faceless gamer is better than me. I'll save such contests for where they really matter, when we meet in public and actually engage each other in a true social medium. Any victories or losses I have in a social context while playing a game seem hollow and empty, but I still don't care to be bombarded by those who feel otherwise, or at least have deluded themselves into feeling so.
Comments
There are people who have tunnel vision on any subject and hate/love regardless of what is being discussed, but that doesn't make it right for someone to write an opinion piece and preemptively dismiss anyone who might have an opposing viewpoint before they have even responded. As if anyone who might have a differing viewpoint must fall into that category.
As for DDO going F2P and finding more success I don't think that is being disputed. How the author of the original article presents (or omits) information and opinions on the other hand....
So, considering DDO had 5 servers BEFORE going free-to-play, and they had to add 2 new servers in the first 2 months AFTER going f2p (thus the current 7), with the announcement that DDO now has hundreds of thousands of players with a 40% increase in monthly subscriptions alone (not including all the free players who are only buying the specific content they want), you don't think that is a pretty good response from the gaming community?
That's EXACTLY how I feel. I want to play, casually, and be immune, or at least unfettered by, the types who throw hours or dollars at the game and spend the rest of their time waving their e-peens around screaming "Look at what I got!" Know what? That's great, but I am more interested in how we can help each other get what we all want. I'm not going to debate in what ways some nameless, faceless gamer is better than me. I'll save such contests for where they really matter, when we meet in public and actually engage each other in a true social medium. Any victories or losses I have in a social context while playing a game seem hollow and empty, but I still don't care to be bombarded by those who feel otherwise, or at least have deluded themselves into feeling so.
Dungeons and Dragons, as well as EVE Online, are the current gods of our F2P market, while Guild Wars is a fallen god that tried and failed.
The real demon of F2P is Entropia Universe, trying to sell Pay-To-Advance as Free-To-Play, and crowing about the several billion dollars it makes off a free game.
Now, Yes, EVE Online and DDO do have a lot of things similar about each other, and in both cases, that's what makes them work. PLEX systems, where you could earn your way to everything WITHOUT SPENDING ONE DOLLAR, work better than Entropia's system, where you can't buy a loaf of bread without checking your wallet.
When WoW goes F2P, Do you want them to go freemium, where you get told, after you get out of your opening zone, that you can't do anything since your wallet's still full? Or do you want it to be where you spend some of your money on accepting a quest, with a option of in-game or real?
First, I was a big naysayer since they announced the move to F2P sometime in early summer 2009 (Sarr can attest to my naysaying lol).
Second, as of last year that game was headed to certain doom if they did not have a huge influx of players/money -- no question about it. People were leaving the game left and right and Turbine made things worse by keeping all of their plans under wraps and very little content released in over a year.
Third, there's still a tenuous balance line Turbine has to walk between putting too many things for sale (i.e. buying one's way to the top, so to speak) and not selling anything meaningful enough.
Fourth, with the plethora of re-specing options Turbine has added, they sure hit a home run with existing subscribers and with the (ahem, ahem) grind required to get a completionist build many people will keep their subs alive until that game exists.
Fifth, Turbine has made a few changes to their content delivery system that makes it easier for them to churn out content every few weeks that is something every veteran welcomes with arms wide open. It allows them to make the proverbial hamster wheel bigger, so to speak.
From a purely objective perspective is hard to deny that F2P has been a resounding success (at least for DDO it has). Lots of game veterans have spent hundreds of dollars on that game that otherwise Turbine wouldn't have gotten. Add to that the massive influx of new players -- and possible revenue -- and you have a moribund game turn into a thriving cash cow that's here to stay and prosper.
From a subjective perspective, I think the game has improved in some ways :more content, re-spec options, etc. and gotten worse in others: lots of annoying kids, lots new players pretending they know a quest, lots of new players who don't bother to RTFM, changing the ruleset away from PnP D&D and adding game mechanics that do nothing but encourage more grinding (i.e. ToD boots, anyone?) . So far, IMO, the balance is tilting toward an overall positive experience, however, if they keep dumbing down the game to fit the plethora of newbs and toward not needing to group, I'll be the first one to can my sub -- which I'm well aware Turbine doesn't really care much about since the game went F2P.
Peace.
So, considering DDO had 5 servers BEFORE going free-to-play, and they had to add 2 new servers in the first 2 months AFTER going f2p (thus the current 7), with the announcement that DDO now has hundreds of thousands of players with a 40% increase in monthly subscriptions alone (not including all the free players who are only buying the specific content they want), you don't think that is a pretty good response from the gaming community?
The mess I was speaking of was that a game that wasn't doing very well in the subscription market won the best F2P award. That says something.
A 40% increase is huge, but 40% of what? 40% of a number that wasn't very large to begin with may not be as impressive when viewed in total.
Hundreds of thousands of players (plural) living on 7 servers? I somehow doubt that. Once a game allows free to play, it is easy to play fast and loose with the number of players, since your account is never really canceled in a free game.
Again, not to say that DDO has not had some impressive success. I think it will be a while until we see how the lasting success pans out. I may sound like a critic, but that is just because I can't find the right words. I have nothing for or against ddo and remain curious how it ends up once the ambiguous PR dies down.
So, the listing over at the official D&D website of over 300 different products including novels, Player's handbooks, Monster Manuals, DM guides, character sheets, miniatures, Supplementary Class handbooks, Supplementary Weapon handbooks, Pre-made Campaigns, etc...are all being given away for free by Wizards of the Coast? They mail you these things for free whenever they make a new product?
Cause the last time I looked into those you had to buy them, and as far back as I can remember you ALWAYS had to buy them.
Making a one-time purchase of a D&D product has never earned you the ability to gain follow-up products for free...not unless you made the content yourself.
Huh? LOLWUT? Gw is hardly a failure. They were the first to make a ftp model truely work and still maintain a decent player base. Last I looked ( about 2 months ago) they were still selling over 20k campaigns/month. Not big on predictions but I think GW2 will be huge!. There is a large, faithful player base that will return in addition to the current player base.
QFT!
Signed,
Another P2P MMO player "in denial"
That being said, there is no doubt that DDO has made a turnaround with the new model. As much as I dislike the F2P model, I cannot argue that, IMO, it seems to fit the D&D in an online world dynamic better than a standard sub based model.
Gather a group and knock out some modules and you don't have to pay a penny. Want to check out a new module, pay a small fee and gather your friends to play the new module. Much like the old P&P days. It just seems like a more intuitive payment structure for the IP that goes along with it.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
You obviously have no clue what your talking about. You can't buy your way to the top. You have to earn all the top gear. You can't spend hours days or months reaching the top of the game for free either. But hitting the "buy" button doesn't auto mean top either. You still have to complete all the raid requirements and do the actual raid multiple times to get the gear. You aren't buying gear in DDO your buying adventure packs which contain alot of peices you wouldn't even know those quests are missing if you dont buy the adventure packs since none of the free content even leads too them.
People who just flat out hate on cash shops on principle will never like cashshops or freemium models they are heavily biased and won't change their minds. People with some sort of sense can see between the scam Asian models of buy your way to the top and the more western approach of customization and quest content purchases.
So does DDO offer no potions or xp boosts for money? There you go buying your way to the top.
Can you buy sigils much easier then grinding them out? There you go buying your way to the top.
Be a fan, I'm all for it, but don't jump on people who aren't just because you are.
If you can tell me that all you get from DDO cash shops is cosmetic only then I will be proved wrong, if not (which you can't) then I stand by my opinions 100%.
I as a player have limited money I can invest in games or subscriptions,, under a subscription based game its either "ALL OR NOTHING" either i like the game more than any other and subscribe or its 2nd place or lower and looses.
now with a "free to play" model its a bit different I am able to be much more dynamic and adaptive if im just skimping by I can still play just not buy any extras but if I get a payday or tax check ect. this allows me to buy extras in equipment and expansion packs. I believe strongly that this works in the game companies favor as I am more apt to spend more than a base subscription.
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now as for DDO....
sorry dudes your world is too darn small what you have is a small city of dungeons and that might roll for D&D the company
but thats NOT how most table top gamers play D&D.. D&D has a whole WORLD to explore with interesting things in the cities and villages along the way players might get several "epic" level quests that may take them to the far reaches of the world this mah entail 10-20 thread quests but ALONG THE WAY they may encounter dozens even hundreds of side quests DDO has none of that appeal.
even the world that they choose SUCKS (which i could make sucks bigger) but you probably got it cheap or made it yourself instead of using a univeraly recognized map with all the supporting maps and books and guides.
you cant do anything not directly related to combat theres no crafting hell you cant even sit in a chair and enjoy an ale.
I would love to play D&D again its just that DDO is boring hack and slash.
make a world, not a game, we dont want another game.
Guild Wars is a failure for the same reason FFXI was a failure...
It's a group of WoW raids disguised as possibly single-player content, and it only gets worse as you get further along, since the level cap isn't even recognised by the enemies, but you're locked to it.
The entire of Guild Wars: Eye of the North is set up so you're effectively constantly in a party or dead.
Not a good gameplay model, even if you get it for free.
EVE Online?? I think you got your wires crossed somewhere... Eve is not F2P. Sure it has a free trial like most other P2P, but the game is P2P and it doesn't even have an endless trial that a few P2P now have.
Guild Wars is a failure for the same reason FFXI was a failure...
It's a group of WoW raids disguised as possibly single-player content, and it only gets worse as you get further along, since the level cap isn't even recognised by the enemies, but you're locked to it.
The entire of Guild Wars: Eye of the North is set up so you're effectively constantly in a party or dead.
Not a good gameplay model, even if you get it for free.
That's a bunch of pure BS. You don't like Guild Wars, that's fine, but is a massive success. No matter how much spin you put on it it has sold over 6 million copies. If that is a failure then every game other than WoW is a failure.
Just for the record - the purpose of this post is not to 'defend DDO'. I am not a 'Fanboi'. But I would now call myself a Fan.
The difference is that I can see the faults in the game. Overall though DDO is headed in the right direction.
The revenue model and the 'Graphical Lobby Game' / 'Managed Instance' style engine does actually work for the D&D IP.
In that respect DDO is unique and other companies will no doubt attempt to copy it and fail with no clue why? Part of the thing that makes it work is that DDO has the content to back up that model now. A game with less content probably wouldn't get away with it.
For those that say about player buying their way to the top? The top of what? DDO is all about running dungeons - just like D&D was. There is no 'top'?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I have always been against cash shops, and F2P titles, but in all honestly DDO is extremely well done and has made me rethink my old ways. This is a really impressive title that I had written off in beta, and has become one of my favorite games out there. Bravo, bravo.
So the model then is, make a full fledged MMO, and set it up to be FTP/Sub option based right from the start, and it can work. Did I get that right. I dunno, but it probably will be tried, and there is no reason to fret about it. The customers will decide.
Bleh, my warped mind thinks that if you have good content, you can sell it just about any way. If you don't have good content it doesn't matter what your choices are. If DDO is turning things around, it isn't because of the cash shop its because they improved the content. And maybe the FTP was just a way for people to sample that new content more easily. But what do I know.
Nevertheless, since I don't mind being somewhat self-contradictory, I do agree with others who think that offering multiple ways to pay for the game seems, from a business point of view, like common sense. Customers like options. Heck, people who don't like it when others can buy xp potions and level faster, etc, hey, that's ok. You have your vote, it would be totally wrong for you to "pretend" otherwise by playing in spite of it. That would skew the market unnaturally.
Just wait people. Time will prove what works and what doesn't. Maybe we will all (whoever IS playing, LOL) be playing by the hour in 4-5 years. I certainly don't know, and neither do the rest of you. 12 years ago I would have laughed if someone suggested the sub model. Six years ago I would have laughed if someone suggested FTP.
It doesn't really matter what we think so much. What matters is what people pay for. I am tired of arguing about the business model. (But a short rest I am sure I will be back at it!) Let me see some good content for a change.
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Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
EVE Online?? I think you got your wires crossed somewhere... Eve is not F2P. Sure it has a free trial like most other P2P, but the game is P2P and it doesn't even have an endless trial that a few P2P now have.
You don't have to pay real money. You can buy game time with ISK.
The only gear you can actually buy in DDO is crap. Better off getting it as loot or buying it in the auction house. Of course some things are over-the-top expensive but if you shop the bargains and take a gander from time to time you can usually find a pretty sweet deal. I wonder if those people selling X item for a bazillion platinum ever actually sell anything, lol. They're not getting my fake money at those prices!
I'm buying the game slowly but surely, one module at a time. Then, someday, while the VIP's are still forking out 15 bucks a month I'll just be waiting for a new module to come out.
So what are you going to do when the day comes when all MMO's have flexible pay models? Go back to pen and paper? Hey, that's not a bad idea.
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage
But its fun though. . .:D
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage
The Game had only 5 servers for a long time, they added 2 since the servers were becoming full when all the new f2p players joined.
Plenty of outdoor stuff now though.
And I'll bet odds are you bought a module or two back in the days of Pen and Paper. No? So I guess you did all of them yourself. You get a gold star. 
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage
You really don't know how ddo works...
Pfft! lol
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage
That's EXACTLY how I feel. I want to play, casually, and be immune, or at least unfettered by, the types who throw hours or dollars at the game and spend the rest of their time waving their e-peens around screaming "Look at what I got!" Know what? That's great, but I am more interested in how we can help each other get what we all want. I'm not going to debate in what ways some nameless, faceless gamer is better than me. I'll save such contests for where they really matter, when we meet in public and actually engage each other in a true social medium. Any victories or losses I have in a social context while playing a game seem hollow and empty, but I still don't care to be bombarded by those who feel otherwise, or at least have deluded themselves into feeling so.
You have e-peen envy, lol.
https://www.smashwords.com/profile/view/Bleakmage