Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Problem with Star Wars MMO's

2

Comments

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990

    Your posts about CO being the WoW killer were definitely more amusing.

    3/10

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • Redfalcon351Redfalcon351 Member Posts: 11
    Originally posted by Malcanis


    Better do as he says, guys - he has legendary status.
     
    Can't argue with that.



     

    Legendary status? Legendary of what?

  • IhmoteppIhmotepp Member Posts: 14,495

    This is what I predict in such a system.

    Player rolls evil character. Player dies, and looks at the prospect of doing the SAME quests, and killing the SAME mobs all over again to level up, and getting killed AGAIN, and doing that content over, AGAIN.

    Player re-rolls good character.

    As more players roll good characters, evil gets stomped, more evil players decide to roll good characters.

    Result, permanent imbalance in the game, as good levels up, and evil gets perma killed.

     

     

    image

  • dodsfalldodsfall Member UncommonPosts: 173
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp


    This is what I predict in such a system.
    Player rolls evil character. Player dies, and looks at the prospect of doing the SAME quests, and killing the SAME mobs all over again to level up, and getting killed AGAIN, and doing that content over, AGAIN.
    Player re-rolls good character.
    As more players roll good characters, evil gets stomped, more evil players decide to roll good characters.
    Result, permanent imbalance in the game, as good levels up, and evil gets perma killed.
     
     

    I believe that's what would happen very quickly.

    You have to look beyond any game mechanic to what the eventual results  will be.

  • ComnitusComnitus Member Posts: 2,462

    "Oh ffs, I had to take my dying mother to the hospital and didn't have time to logout, and I got killed by a passing mob 5 levels lower than me... but he still managed to kill me, eventually, since I didn't get back until later... and I'm evil! Guess it's time to reroll ahurgadurgadurdurdur."

    Yeah.

    image

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990
    Originally posted by Comnitus


    "Oh ffs, I had to take my dying mother to the hospital and didn't have time to logout, and I got killed by a passing mob 5 levels lower than me... but he still managed to kill me, eventually, since I didn't get back until later... and I'm evil! Guess it's time to reroll ahurgadurgadurdurdur."
    Yeah.



     

    Serves the mama's boy right for not having his priorities straight.

    >_>

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    Originally posted by Horkathane


    Im here watching Starwas 4,5,6 again just got the upgraded Dvds and it dawns on me.
    When Vader gets thwarted by a rebel evade like the deathstar plans hidden in the escape pod. He says "see to it personally, there will be no one to stop us this time!"
    Freeze Frame!
    This is the problem. there is no accountability like in the movies...you screw up, report to vader for throat reconstruction.
    In mmos people join evil under the same rules as those who join good. This is a major problem. If you join good they give you chances...you join evil fail 1 time reroll. How come this has never been implemented?
    I guess the developers dont know how to make money. Oh yea that's true, look at all the wasteful spending and decisions.
     
    You may hate or love me but bottom line I know what it takes to keep people interested in a game. I have over 15 yrs of experience and legendary status.
    You could have stick figure graphics and win if you honor this...
     
    Join Evil, fail get killed re-roll
    Join Good, fail get killed, loose stats
    --------------------
    This tames all and should be the model for the future.
     



     

    Who is good, who is evil?  Are the good guys the ones trying to bring "law and order" to the galaxy?  Or are they the ones trying to overthrow the "tyrants"?  Are the bad guys the terrorists attacking the galaxy's government?  Or were the bad guys the ones that felt the ends justified the means?

    IMHO, the real problem with star wars mmo's, even something set in the Old Republic, is that  you're inevitably stuck in a stalemate.  Especially in SWG, there can never be any real progress in the story because of the bigger (canon) story it is enveloped by.  TOR puports to circumvent this by going so far into the past but, I don't forsee it have that much more freedom.   The matrix online and asheron's call, both which i've never played, purportedly had the freedom to move the storyline dynamically which I think is a boon to any players.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
    Originally posted by Ihmotepp


    This is what I predict in such a system.
    Player rolls evil character. Player dies, and looks at the prospect of doing the SAME quests, and killing the SAME mobs all over again to level up, and getting killed AGAIN, and doing that content over, AGAIN.
    Player re-rolls good character.
    As more players roll good characters, evil gets stomped, more evil players decide to roll good characters.
    Result, permanent imbalance in the game, as good levels up, and evil gets perma killed.
     
     



     

    Well said. As someone pointed out earlier, there is nothing stopping the players from creating a guild and instituting that rule. If it is actually a popular one (I highly doubt it would be) then more guilds would catch on to it and the idea grows.

    I like a good challenge as much as the next guy, but that is too insane.

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195
    Originally posted by Horkathane


    Im here watching Starwas 4,5,6 again just got the upgraded Dvds and it dawns on me.
    When Vader gets thwarted by a rebel evade like the deathstar plans hidden in the escape pod. He says "see to it personally, there will be no one to stop us this time!"
    Freeze Frame!
    This is the problem. there is no accountability like in the movies...you screw up, report to vader for throat reconstruction.
    In mmos people join evil under the same rules as those who join good. This is a major problem. If you join good they give you chances...you join evil fail 1 time reroll. How come this has never been implemented?
    I guess the developers dont know how to make money. Oh yea that's true, look at all the wasteful spending and decisions.
     
    You may hate or love me but bottom line I know what it takes to keep people interested in a game. I have over 15 yrs of experience and legendary status.
    You could have stick figure graphics and win if you honor this...
     
    Join Evil, fail get killed re-roll
    Join Good, fail get killed, loose stats
    --------------------
    This tames all and should be the model for the future.
     

     

    Vader failed a number of times, and he didn't get killed... well he did eventually.. ... and not just in 4 5 and 6, in 1 2 and 3 he failed countless times to do what he wanted to do.  In fact, at the end of 3, he failed SO good, that he was pretty much resurrected.  When the first time th death star exploded...  vader didn't choke himself.....   then again its been awhile since I saw the movies.

     

    Thats kind of what the new game is about... the heroes (and major villains) never went about punishing themselves... and they rarely got punished by others unless you were pretty much some nameless grunt.  How many times did Boba Fett get punished? Noone choked him.



  • MMO_DoubterMMO_Doubter Member Posts: 5,056
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly 


     
    Serves the mama's boy right for not having his priorities straight.
    >_>

    Quoted for LOL.

    "" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2

  • EricDanieEricDanie Member UncommonPosts: 2,238
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly


    Your posts about CO being the WoW killer were definitely more amusing.
    3/10

    This. 

    @ OP

    What you proposed is highly unreal (for MMOs), though in sandbox games there are usually penalties for being an outlaw (to counter the benefits), aligning yourself with evil in this case is more like a faction. Anyway since STO I'm expecting SW to be all about combat too because apparently that's all there is to generate money in MMOs (well, or smuggling goods, but that may involve combat), unless hopefully Cryptic is the only company that thinks with such weak creativity and expect people to shell out around $300 for their joke of a MMO and a great IP.

    And if you fail these missions... you die, and nobody really runs from missions without becoming a deserter or needing to give a dangerous session of explanations to the superiors, the magical give up button will be there like always, so this kind of realism you are asking for is way too far from MMOs, the jump would make the game fail horribly in popularity.

    Anyway for this to have any chance of happening you'd need to implement perma death first.

    You need to do it the same way companies have been able to implement cash shops in their P2P MMOs. 

  • KostKost Member CommonPosts: 1,975
    Originally posted by johnmatthais


     This..is simply bullshit.



     

    Par for the course with the OP, unfortunately.

  • johnmatthaisjohnmatthais Member CommonPosts: 2,663

     ...I notice he's yet to post again...

  • CronjoCronjo Member Posts: 23

    I'm going to give you a very through answer and rebuttal to your post.  Good and Evil are matters of View and Opinion, nothing more.  Murder, Robbery, Assault, these things are not Good or Evil, they are often called Evil but in reality they are matters of Law and Chaos.  I'm going to break down a few examples into Law, Chaos, Good, and Evil like you would in a AD&D game, it's easier this way, though you being a youngin, you probably can't remember before the Watered down 3rd, 3.5 and 4th ed. of the game....but try and keep up.

    The Empire?  Lawful Evil, the Empire believes in Strict Obedience, they have a set of rules and if you don't follow them then you need to be removed from the system to prevent disruption.  Almost every Tyrant is basically Lawful Evil, they go forth under the concept of bring order by suppressing the people under their rule into the ideals they set forth.  Breaking the Rules is not an option.  Peace through Tyranny is an accurate summation of the Empire.  

    Rebel Alliance,  Neutral Good.  They believed in individual freedoms, and choice, and most importantly were willing to bring these about through war and chaos if necessary.  If the Emperor had been more or less Lawful Good there never would have been a rebellion, the Senate was basically Lawful Good.  The Rebels don't necessarily believe in anarchy or chaos but if it will help restore order and what they perceive as good then they are willing to sow it to achieve this end.   Hero's or not they are still going about killing agents of the established order and could be defined criminals

     

    Another Fine example would be the stories of Robin Hood, The Sheriff of Nottingham was basically a LE character, a supporter of  the royal who usurped the Throne, in the Form of King John.  Robin was NG,  but remember Robin was a criminal.  Sure he stole from the rich and gave to the poor but he was still preforming crimes and acted in defense of the rightful King Richard.  His personal set of values justified his actions to himself and those that followed him.  Interesting enough outside of the Legends, King John was the King so terrible at his job he was forced to sign the Magna Carta because of a rebellion.

    In both these examples, the Good element could easily be viewed as criminals because their actions are against the established order and how they carried those actions out, and the Evil elements were very Lawful and Orderly in nature.  This didn't make either sides Right or Wrong it just defined how they dealt with situations.  So basically people entered the Service of Good and Evil for the same reason, personal views and opinions.   It's no more unjust that a person who fails in the service of a LE Tyrant is executed, than a person who fails in the service of CG Leader of a Rebellion is spared.  Each person knows the risks involved and his personal goals and opinions are aligned with those he is serving.  

     

    Now when you apply those ideals to a MMO, which really is what you are talking about you can't exclude the factor that players are playing the game to have fun, and that there is a Time Investment that the developers have to honor if they want to keep people playing.   See Ultima Online tried something similar to what you are saying, it used to be that when a Evil Player (Murderers) were killed they lost {x%} of all Stats and Skills.  What happens is the Good Players eventually camped the resurrection points and slaughtered them into oblivion basically requiring a complete rebuild of the character.   In that the "Good" player could be viewed as Evil as well and that really is another part of the answer to your question.  



    When good has a dominate Advantage over evil in terms of continued playability of a character, evil will simply disguise itself in order to survive.  Evil will always break the rules to some point in order to act in it's own best interest even if it means disguising itself as "Good" to ensure it's preservation until a better opportunity arises for it.  Star Wars gave an example of this with Senator Palpatine working as a respected member of the Senate for decades.  This is one of the Defining Principles of Evil, self preservation is paramount in order to find opportunities to further ambition.

  • tapeworm00tapeworm00 Member Posts: 549

     haha you notice how the thread title says it's got to do with a(ny) Star Wars MMO and then BOOM, you're schooled by his legendary status about MMOs in general?

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990
    Originally posted by tapeworm00


     haha you notice how the thread title says it's got to do with a(ny) Star Wars MMO and then BOOM, you're schooled by his legendary status about MMOs in general?



     

    What?!  Are you questioning the validity of 'The Legend Known as Horkathane' ?!?!

    : O

    Excuse me one sec...

    /moves ever so slightly away from tapeworm to avoid being hit by  barrage of lightning bolts

    EDITED: Due to completely getting OP's name wrong initially >_>

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • HorkathaneHorkathane Member Posts: 380

    No you ALL missed the point!

     

    As Usual.

    My point requoting the portion of my own post

    When Vader gets thwarted by a rebel evade like the deathstar plans hidden in the escape pod. He says "see to it personally, there will be no one to stop us this time!"

    Now if you roll evil and go Sith and take a Quest that you get from Vader and mess up? Your character has 2 choices.

    1. Flee, go renegade...maybe you can get some side jobs working for the Hutts in the underworld

     

    2. report to Vader for Throat reconstruction

     

    No one said you have to take the quest? You wanna play the big man then put your life on the line and your cards on the table!

    I am sick and tired of people thinking they are WORTHY of being a SITH and rolling a character. Listen, To roll SITH is to play a Permadeath possible character. The SITH at the High levels, not the small quests but the High Quests DO NOT RESPOND WELL TO FAILURE!

    All this whining tells me you need to go Jedi or Smug.

     

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Member UncommonPosts: 1,703

    ppl have made arguments for not being able to accurately play jedi aswell but because of the eternal kill everything in mmo's

    there really has to be some sort of balance between what's practical and what the setting demands from a cannon standpoint

  • HorkathaneHorkathane Member Posts: 380
    Originally posted by Karahandras


    ppl have made arguments for not being able to accurately play jedi aswell but because of the eternal kill everything in mmo's
    there really has to be some sort of balance between what's practical and what the setting demands from a cannon standpoint

     

    I understand what you are saying but if we do not impose real Failure no one will really stand out.  This will be another weak sauce WoW Imitation. 

  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990
    Originally posted by Horkathane


    one said you have to take the quest? You wanna play the big man then put your life on the line and your cards on the table!
    I am sick and tired of people thinking they are WORTHY of being a SITH and rolling a character. Listen, To roll SITH is to play a Permadeath possible character. The SITH at the High levels, not the small quests but the High Quests DO NOT RESPOND WELL TO FAILURE!
    All this whining tells me you need to go Jedi or Smug.
     



     

    XD

    Okay, now we're getting somewhere.  I vote if you roll sith then permadeath.  If you roll jedi and die then you get reincarnated as a pikachu.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • dodsfalldodsfall Member UncommonPosts: 173
    Originally posted by Horkathane

    Originally posted by Karahandras


    ppl have made arguments for not being able to accurately play jedi aswell but because of the eternal kill everything in mmo's
    there really has to be some sort of balance between what's practical and what the setting demands from a cannon standpoint

     

    I understand what you are saying but if we do not impose real Failure no one will really stand out.  This will be another weak sauce WoW Imitation. 

     

    Are you a real Sith? :D

    I suppose a player could drop something heavy on their foot if they die, like an anvil. That doesn't sound like fun to me, which is why most people play games, believe it or not.

  • CronjoCronjo Member Posts: 23
    Originally posted by Horkathane


    No you ALL missed the point!
     
    As Usual.
    My point requoting the portion of my own post
    When Vader gets thwarted by a rebel evade like the deathstar plans hidden in the escape pod. He says "see to it personally, there will be no one to stop us this time!"
    Now if you roll evil and go Sith and take a Quest that you get from Vader and mess up? Your character has 2 choices.
    1. Flee, go renegade...maybe you can get some side jobs working for the Hutts in the underworld
     
    2. report to Vader for Throat reconstruction
     
    No one said you have to take the quest? You wanna play the big man then put your life on the line and your cards on the table!
    I am sick and tired of people thinking they are WORTHY of being a SITH and rolling a character. Listen, To roll SITH is to play a Permadeath possible character. The SITH at the High levels, not the small quests but the High Quests DO NOT RESPOND WELL TO FAILURE!
    All this whining tells me you need to go Jedi or Smug.
     

     

    You missed my point, the Sith aren't anymore evil than the Rebels depending on an individuals point of view.   Look how about I you think back to SW: RotJ where Obi-wan's ghost and Luke are chatting and Obi-wan drops this little nugget of truth on Luke "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

    The Difference between Sith and Jedi have nothing to do with Good and Evil,  The difference is on how the Force is used, even in Canonical  Star Wars how many Jedi can you name that became Sith and Sith that became Jedi simply because their perspective on things altered at some point in their lives.  Luke alone went from Jedi, to Sith and back to Jedi.  

    Want a better example?  Read through some Canonical info on various Sith, many failed time and time again to complete the tasks set by their masters and lived.....Vader included.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    Legen.... wait for it.....   dary!

  • tehikktehikk Member Posts: 497

    Not a very good idea if you ask me.

    I see what you're getting at, but still...

    "The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein

  • KarahandrasKarahandras Member UncommonPosts: 1,703
    Originally posted by Horkathane

    Originally posted by Karahandras


    ppl have made arguments for not being able to accurately play jedi aswell but because of the eternal kill everything in mmo's
    there really has to be some sort of balance between what's practical and what the setting demands from a cannon standpoint

     

    I understand what you are saying but if we do not impose real Failure no one will really stand out.  This will be another weak sauce WoW Imitation. 

     

    if you expecting the new one to be anything more than star wars for 8yr olds you may be bitterly disappointed

Sign In or Register to comment.