As I stated in previous post, you all have ADD, I am not saying you must get into the game, I just still am unable to grasp the idea of the grind you guys are talking about, for all the damn alts you made one might wonder why you just didn't take a toon to 50 and start grouping with some folks. The grind is there to weed out the babies who get mad because it takes them 3 weeks to level to max instead of one week. Get over it already! When I play mmo's, I watch TV, I rarely listen to the sound and find the journey relaxing, big deal it takes some time
I feel sorry for you... you clearly dont grasp and or have experienced the concept of IMMERSION. It is not about getting to max level or the need to do it quickly... rather the lack of a enjoyable journey to that point, where might i remind you, is where you actually get to enjoy normal pvp which has its own slew of problems.
Yes the game is a grind. Grind by definition is a forced playstyle (not optional) which makes up the core design of the game. In WoW, grind is left optional for faction points. Thats the secret, OPTIONAL, its still a time sink but it does not carry the entire game. IN Aion, the entire core concept is based on forced work/grind just to experience the features they left at the end of the game.
And yes.. i do have an active Aion account... but for how much longer I do not know. Aion is horribly designed and in a recent interview, an NCsoft developer said they intended for casual players to make up most of the population with a small number of hardcore players at the top (pvp ladder). They also stated that their design problems are due to a large percentage of inexperienced developers they hired for AION.
You can disagree with me, but the devs pretty much layed it out on the table for everyone.
there is no immersion in any mmo, what planet do you live on. No matter how you sugar coat it, its all a grind. There are two paths in any mmo to gain levels, quest or grind, each strives to not be the other but in reality there both the same. I rather just sit in an area for 3 hours and gain xp, questing folks prefer to run all over the place. mindless killing, mindless questing its all a grind! No matter how many time you say it isn't every action is just a repeat of the previous action.
side note, if it wasn't about getting to max level so quickly, why is it possible to roll to 80 in wow in a few days.
Maybe this is the situation just in games you play. Also you miss the another form of gaining levels grind quests. Solution of this can be : make the game skill based and make it fun.
In general its up to you to find the fun your self or choose the path of grind.
ADVICE: If you feel the game grindy and cannot think about anything you can change in the way you play the game that mean this game is not for you.
I am all about skill based games, but its still a grind one way or another, but I would prefer skill based over xp killing
Sub expires 16th and i think i won't buy another month. I'll probably screw around Guild Wars or some non internet game untile i figure out what i want to play next. I've leveled an assassin to 37, a spiritmaster to 24, a sorcerer to 22 and every other class at least to 10. I just keep losing interest in my characters and the game itself. I think this game is long overdue for a patch. Not to adress the leveling curve specificly, just adress, i dunno, something. As for me i liked it while it lasted. That's as long as it did though.
that's a shame
good luck in finding an mmorpg that you will like
This response to the OP is full of win. Anything else is really just an arguement of opinion. Not only does that OP not realize that there have been patches to the game (even regarding the xp curve which spawned double xp weekends) is a testament to how much people do not pay attention to the game they are playing. If your going to make a post about how you don't like a game and then mention something that's already been addressed (several time) then maybe the game is not for you.
Another nice posts, again we are dealing with the hand held spoon fed crowd, which is exactly why I decided to support Aion defend it on the forum and give it the same amount of time and dedication I gave WOW. If after all of this I end up not playing, so be it! atleast I had fun for the time it occupied. I personally dont think its a grind. For the few hours I play a night I am more then happy atm
Sub expires 16th and i think i won't buy another month. I'll probably screw around Guild Wars or some non internet game untile i figure out what i want to play next. I've leveled an assassin to 37, a spiritmaster to 24, a sorcerer to 22 and every other class at least to 10. I just keep losing interest in my characters and the game itself. I think this game is long overdue for a patch. Not to adress the leveling curve specificly, just adress, i dunno, something. As for me i liked it while it lasted. That's as long as it did though.
The level curve is not that bad. I have been playing the game for three weeks casually and I am really enjoying it. The more mmo's you have played the more comparisons you have to relate this game to. If you only played Lotro or WoW and try to relate Aion to those then you will find it grindie. If you have played UO (5 times grandmaster), Everquest, DAoC, SWG, or Lineage 1 & 2, then Aion wouldn't feel that grindie.
So at the end of the day, I guess what I am saying is you have little comparatives or experience due to the lack of diversity in your MMO experiences, (Don't try to defend this remark we can all tell from you comment towards Aion) .
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
There is more immersion in my wii games then there has been in any mmos released, including the ones you speak of. As for the games that had it, Vanilla WOW, EQ1, Ultimate Online, & EvE Online. Outside of that no. I feel captured by a movie sometimes as part of it, but I never really feel like I am a feral druid prancing through a forest, hmm nope! The problem with all of this bs is that you are trying to make something more complicated it is. Every mmo, regardless of the action you are performing is the same damn action. tap tap a few keystrokes wait for CD indicator to dwrindle down smack macro shift control alt 5, rinse and repeat. So no matter what you say this action provides nothing. I play mmo to have an alternative arena to hang with my friends. However I do not cry about a game merely on the idea that the grind is more cumbersome. Or it is harder to get to the end, its nonsense! Now just in case you didnt know. It use to take some time to roll to 60 in Vanilla WOW your perceived thought on the matter shows how new to WOW you are. The first time in WOW you would jam with you friends maybe a couple of your buddies would play all night, but the next day you still had the same level. People grouped with out LFG interface, they ran SFK, WC, RFD and all of the low tier dungeons quite frequently. there were no raid marker and there was a presence and a life to wow. Then you cry babies started crying that it took to long to re roll. Raid leaders were unfair, 40 man raids were to big, not becuase it was a bad idea or the current player base loved every minute of it, no it was because you ADD people were unaccostmed to paying for a game and having to wait or be part of a team to get them shinies. Guilds in Vanialla WOW were remarkable and you would actually try and do what you needed to get into a good guild. The orginal Gladiator ranking in PVP WoW with world kills calcualted was the best PVP system ever. Its really a tiring argument, but hey I like Aion and either way none of you idots have put forth anything but the objection to the grind. You know there were not always flying mounts in wow either you know?
There you go assuming again:
Lets get right to the point and address what you have just said:
1. First you claim that no mmorpg has immersion, then you admit to 4 games having it. Hypocrite much? You also go on to saying that none of the games I mentioned have had it. Hmmmm I seem to see EVE in there, which I mentioned. Guess this not only proves you are a hypocrite, but were unable to actually read the post you are now replying to.
2. You confuse immersion with role playing. When someone plays a video game, immersion isnt what decides if you believe you are an elf, or an orc, rather if you looked at the definition of the word you would realize its about the condition of the viewer and or player. You might not have realized it yet but there is academic study and theory regarding both film and game immersion. Yes it does exist and no its not role playing. I suggest doing some study.
3. You go on to talk about "the same action" but totally ignore the aspect of perceived action. Studying behavioral science would reveal that perception is key to understanding not just the advanced state of immersion but also how humans act and react and therefore define their actions and reactions. No one can logically or rationally claim its all the same action. If you told that to a game designer, they would laugh at you. You know what a game designers job is right?
4a) First you claim that it takes a long time to get to 60 in vanilla WoW and because you believe that you claim i am a "newbie" to WoW.
Fact: I was playing WoW since beta. I was one of the first lvl 60 druids on my server and the guild I was in was the first Alliance guild to complete Molten Core in vanilla.
So what does this show? It shows that not only is it childish to assume I am new to WoW because I point out where you are wrong, but also just completely illogical. It says that you most likely dont think you know as much as you think you know and try to cover it up by assuming everyone else is some how "noob" and you are there fore uber "experienced".
So going by the information I have shared with you... lets get into:
4b) Getting to 60 did NOT take forever, it was NOT a grind and in all honesty it was very easy. The difference being, in Vanilla WoW there was actually a thing called "world pvp". Yes, this means in every zone there were constant battles raging on. Players would often distract themselves or get interrupted from questing by pvpers. This goes on to show that you couldnt quest without paying attention or else you would have had a rogue corpse camping you after a quick and sudden death.
I like what you say at the end. Since you were not playing the game as long as i was, i'll let you in on a little secret. Since the NDA is long since been dropped, those in early beta actually saw flying. Yes, flying was in WoW at one point. Amazing right? Azeroth wasnt made for it though and it was not part of the game until an expansion. Heres another piece of info you probably didnt know, we knew about player and guild housing. In fact you can still see the portals Blizzard planned for it in the game. I still remember when shaman skills were actually part of the druid class. Do you? I doubt it.
The lesson for today is, dont assume you think you know everything about a game, and especially about a person. For all you know, you might be attempting (poorly) at belittling a game developer or an industry professional. You could be attempting to talk down someone with a much broader education and experience than you. Whether you feel humbled or not is of little importance, but what you should do is keep an open mind, and less epeen waving.
I want armory proof of your claims to be the first alliance guild to knock out molten core,
Hyporcrisy is saying one thing and doing another, so I respect your right to argue but wrong word. Its a game people comparing behavioral science to a play style or action that is the same action for the whole player base, every priest does the same action, every prot tank does the same thing, every rogue does the same thing which is gets ahead of the group! It is what it is
WOW noobs hate being called WOW noobs, as for the flying mounts it was in TBC beta not Vanilla wow, I am not sure what beta you were playing but I never saw flying mounts in beta. They didnt event have ZG available at launch so I am not sure where you were playing your beta but I didnt see them!
nope, i just though hypocrite was an ill chosen word but I likfe to hear his points of view even if I disagree with him. I want people to play Aion thats why I spend a few moments talking smack. As for Aion everythime I log I am seeing people and last night I saw a clan in the area I was at, pretty cool shit
Sub expires 16th and i think i won't buy another month. I'll probably screw around Guild Wars or some non internet game untile i figure out what i want to play next. I've leveled an assassin to 37, a spiritmaster to 24, a sorcerer to 22 and every other class at least to 10. I just keep losing interest in my characters and the game itself. I think this game is long overdue for a patch. Not to adress the leveling curve specificly, just adress, i dunno, something. As for me i liked it while it lasted. That's as long as it did though.
The level curve is not that bad. I have been playing the game for three weeks casually and I am really enjoying it. The more mmo's you have played the more comparisons you have to relate this game to. If you only played Lotro or WoW and try to relate Aion to those then you will find it grindie. If you have played UO (5 times grandmaster), Everquest, DAoC, SWG, or Lineage 1 & 2, then Aion wouldn't feel that grindie.
So at the end of the day, I guess what I am saying is you have little comparatives or experience due to the lack of diversity in your MMO experiences, (Don't try to defend this remark we can all tell from you comment towards Aion) .
Spoken like a true gamer, I couldn't have said it any better! I agree 100% and I'm also having a blast casually, and yes at times it is tough to not get caught in a respawn storm, but fun
Sub expires 16th and i think i won't buy another month. I'll probably screw around Guild Wars or some non internet game untile i figure out what i want to play next. I've leveled an assassin to 37, a spiritmaster to 24, a sorcerer to 22 and every other class at least to 10. I just keep losing interest in my characters and the game itself. I think this game is long overdue for a patch. Not to adress the leveling curve specificly, just adress, i dunno, something. As for me i liked it while it lasted. That's as long as it did though.
The level curve is not that bad. I have been playing the game for three weeks casually and I am really enjoying it. The more mmo's you have played the more comparisons you have to relate this game to. If you only played Lotro or WoW and try to relate Aion to those then you will find it grindie. If you have played UO (5 times grandmaster), Everquest, DAoC, SWG, or Lineage 1 & 2, then Aion wouldn't feel that grindie.
So at the end of the day, I guess what I am saying is you have little comparatives or experience due to the lack of diversity in your MMO experiences, (Don't try to defend this remark we can all tell from you comment towards Aion) .
Having started MMOs with EQ in '99 and having also along the way played L2 and many others, this is spot on. The MMO virgins who gave it up to wow really are clueless.
Korea's last patch was august 4th. After over 6 month all they have to give us is plastic surgery tickets and gender change. And, that's only on the horizon.
-Would you like cheddar or swiss cheese? -Yes. -...
Korea's last patch was august 4th. After over 6 month all they have to give us is plastic surgery tickets and gender change. And, that's only on the horizon.
things that honestly shoulda been there to begin with espcially when its in the game but you just cant use it because the npc needs tickets total load of shit
My thoughts about aion after level a sin to 48 . Beautifull graphisms , good quests , flying pvp .. aion got goood features but ! it misses something . I find L2 more addictive than aion , while it had horrible grind , poor economy , poor crafting , poor class balance .
I didn't enjoy the game all that much in the beta. Yes I thought the presentation was absolutely beautiful, stunning even. The community was ok, the overall artistic side of the game including music was phenomenal its really to bad that the game play was so dated and sub par. Sure it had fancy nice looking animations but at the end of the day it was just another typical mmo to add to the bunch. Not even an original Control scheme or interface style like FFXI has At least I can credit that game with those 2 points of originality in the midst of all the grind. and missions.
Comments
I feel sorry for you... you clearly dont grasp and or have experienced the concept of IMMERSION. It is not about getting to max level or the need to do it quickly... rather the lack of a enjoyable journey to that point, where might i remind you, is where you actually get to enjoy normal pvp which has its own slew of problems.
Yes the game is a grind. Grind by definition is a forced playstyle (not optional) which makes up the core design of the game. In WoW, grind is left optional for faction points. Thats the secret, OPTIONAL, its still a time sink but it does not carry the entire game. IN Aion, the entire core concept is based on forced work/grind just to experience the features they left at the end of the game.
And yes.. i do have an active Aion account... but for how much longer I do not know. Aion is horribly designed and in a recent interview, an NCsoft developer said they intended for casual players to make up most of the population with a small number of hardcore players at the top (pvp ladder). They also stated that their design problems are due to a large percentage of inexperienced developers they hired for AION.
You can disagree with me, but the devs pretty much layed it out on the table for everyone.
there is no immersion in any mmo, what planet do you live on. No matter how you sugar coat it, its all a grind. There are two paths in any mmo to gain levels, quest or grind, each strives to not be the other but in reality there both the same. I rather just sit in an area for 3 hours and gain xp, questing folks prefer to run all over the place. mindless killing, mindless questing its all a grind! No matter how many time you say it isn't every action is just a repeat of the previous action.
side note, if it wasn't about getting to max level so quickly, why is it possible to roll to 80 in wow in a few days.
Maybe this is the situation just in games you play. Also you miss the another form of gaining levels grind quests. Solution of this can be : make the game skill based and make it fun.
In general its up to you to find the fun your self or choose the path of grind.
ADVICE: If you feel the game grindy and cannot think about anything you can change in the way you play the game that mean this game is not for you.
I am all about skill based games, but its still a grind one way or another, but I would prefer skill based over xp killing
Good point
that's a shame
good luck in finding an mmorpg that you will like
This response to the OP is full of win. Anything else is really just an arguement of opinion. Not only does that OP not realize that there have been patches to the game (even regarding the xp curve which spawned double xp weekends) is a testament to how much people do not pay attention to the game they are playing. If your going to make a post about how you don't like a game and then mention something that's already been addressed (several time) then maybe the game is not for you.
Another nice posts, again we are dealing with the hand held spoon fed crowd, which is exactly why I decided to support Aion defend it on the forum and give it the same amount of time and dedication I gave WOW. If after all of this I end up not playing, so be it! atleast I had fun for the time it occupied. I personally dont think its a grind. For the few hours I play a night I am more then happy atm
The level curve is not that bad. I have been playing the game for three weeks casually and I am really enjoying it. The more mmo's you have played the more comparisons you have to relate this game to. If you only played Lotro or WoW and try to relate Aion to those then you will find it grindie. If you have played UO (5 times grandmaster), Everquest, DAoC, SWG, or Lineage 1 & 2, then Aion wouldn't feel that grindie.
So at the end of the day, I guess what I am saying is you have little comparatives or experience due to the lack of diversity in your MMO experiences, (Don't try to defend this remark we can all tell from you comment towards Aion) .
I thought this was established months ago how this game was going to play?
There you go assuming again:
Lets get right to the point and address what you have just said:
1. First you claim that no mmorpg has immersion, then you admit to 4 games having it. Hypocrite much? You also go on to saying that none of the games I mentioned have had it. Hmmmm I seem to see EVE in there, which I mentioned. Guess this not only proves you are a hypocrite, but were unable to actually read the post you are now replying to.
2. You confuse immersion with role playing. When someone plays a video game, immersion isnt what decides if you believe you are an elf, or an orc, rather if you looked at the definition of the word you would realize its about the condition of the viewer and or player. You might not have realized it yet but there is academic study and theory regarding both film and game immersion. Yes it does exist and no its not role playing. I suggest doing some study.
3. You go on to talk about "the same action" but totally ignore the aspect of perceived action. Studying behavioral science would reveal that perception is key to understanding not just the advanced state of immersion but also how humans act and react and therefore define their actions and reactions. No one can logically or rationally claim its all the same action. If you told that to a game designer, they would laugh at you. You know what a game designers job is right?
4a) First you claim that it takes a long time to get to 60 in vanilla WoW and because you believe that you claim i am a "newbie" to WoW.
Fact: I was playing WoW since beta. I was one of the first lvl 60 druids on my server and the guild I was in was the first Alliance guild to complete Molten Core in vanilla.
So what does this show? It shows that not only is it childish to assume I am new to WoW because I point out where you are wrong, but also just completely illogical. It says that you most likely dont think you know as much as you think you know and try to cover it up by assuming everyone else is some how "noob" and you are there fore uber "experienced".
So going by the information I have shared with you... lets get into:
4b) Getting to 60 did NOT take forever, it was NOT a grind and in all honesty it was very easy. The difference being, in Vanilla WoW there was actually a thing called "world pvp". Yes, this means in every zone there were constant battles raging on. Players would often distract themselves or get interrupted from questing by pvpers. This goes on to show that you couldnt quest without paying attention or else you would have had a rogue corpse camping you after a quick and sudden death.
I like what you say at the end. Since you were not playing the game as long as i was, i'll let you in on a little secret. Since the NDA is long since been dropped, those in early beta actually saw flying. Yes, flying was in WoW at one point. Amazing right? Azeroth wasnt made for it though and it was not part of the game until an expansion. Heres another piece of info you probably didnt know, we knew about player and guild housing. In fact you can still see the portals Blizzard planned for it in the game. I still remember when shaman skills were actually part of the druid class. Do you? I doubt it.
The lesson for today is, dont assume you think you know everything about a game, and especially about a person. For all you know, you might be attempting (poorly) at belittling a game developer or an industry professional. You could be attempting to talk down someone with a much broader education and experience than you. Whether you feel humbled or not is of little importance, but what you should do is keep an open mind, and less epeen waving.
I want armory proof of your claims to be the first alliance guild to knock out molten core,
Hyporcrisy is saying one thing and doing another, so I respect your right to argue but wrong word. Its a game people comparing behavioral science to a play style or action that is the same action for the whole player base, every priest does the same action, every prot tank does the same thing, every rogue does the same thing which is gets ahead of the group! It is what it is
WOW noobs hate being called WOW noobs, as for the flying mounts it was in TBC beta not Vanilla wow, I am not sure what beta you were playing but I never saw flying mounts in beta. They didnt event have ZG available at launch so I am not sure where you were playing your beta but I didnt see them!
nope, i just though hypocrite was an ill chosen word but I likfe to hear his points of view even if I disagree with him. I want people to play Aion thats why I spend a few moments talking smack. As for Aion everythime I log I am seeing people and last night I saw a clan in the area I was at, pretty cool shit
Please avoid personal attacks and stay on topic.
hm... well is not that I want to be that harsh, but yeah at some point I have to say the same...
The level curve is not that bad. I have been playing the game for three weeks casually and I am really enjoying it. The more mmo's you have played the more comparisons you have to relate this game to. If you only played Lotro or WoW and try to relate Aion to those then you will find it grindie. If you have played UO (5 times grandmaster), Everquest, DAoC, SWG, or Lineage 1 & 2, then Aion wouldn't feel that grindie.
So at the end of the day, I guess what I am saying is you have little comparatives or experience due to the lack of diversity in your MMO experiences, (Don't try to defend this remark we can all tell from you comment towards Aion) .
Spoken like a true gamer, I couldn't have said it any better! I agree 100% and I'm also having a blast casually, and yes at times it is tough to not get caught in a respawn storm, but fun
bump
The level curve is not that bad. I have been playing the game for three weeks casually and I am really enjoying it. The more mmo's you have played the more comparisons you have to relate this game to. If you only played Lotro or WoW and try to relate Aion to those then you will find it grindie. If you have played UO (5 times grandmaster), Everquest, DAoC, SWG, or Lineage 1 & 2, then Aion wouldn't feel that grindie.
So at the end of the day, I guess what I am saying is you have little comparatives or experience due to the lack of diversity in your MMO experiences, (Don't try to defend this remark we can all tell from you comment towards Aion) .
Having started MMOs with EQ in '99 and having also along the way played L2 and many others, this is spot on. The MMO virgins who gave it up to wow really are clueless.
Korea's last patch was august 4th. After over 6 month all they have to give us is plastic surgery tickets and gender change. And, that's only on the horizon.
-Would you like cheddar or swiss cheese?
-Yes.
-...
things that honestly shoulda been there to begin with espcially when its in the game but you just cant use it because the npc needs tickets total load of shit
My thoughts about aion after level a sin to 48 . Beautifull graphisms , good quests , flying pvp .. aion got goood features but ! it misses something . I find L2 more addictive than aion , while it had horrible grind , poor economy , poor crafting , poor class balance .
I didn't enjoy the game all that much in the beta. Yes I thought the presentation was absolutely beautiful, stunning even. The community was ok, the overall artistic side of the game including music was phenomenal its really to bad that the game play was so dated and sub par. Sure it had fancy nice looking animations but at the end of the day it was just another typical mmo to add to the bunch. Not even an original Control scheme or interface style like FFXI has At least I can credit that game with those 2 points of originality in the midst of all the grind. and missions.