I created a poll awhile ago; about 60 percent of potential players would like in-game voice communication, that would allow all guild members to speak to each other regardless of console or PC. It is unfortunate that so many people who voted against in game chat, did so because they will be using Vent. You'd think they would want that possible benefit for other FF14 players.
Will we get it? Right now SE is saying no. I think it would be nice. Allowing both the console and PC users to benefit from chat amongst themselves, instead of only those with access to a computer (and for console users a computer near their TV and console).
For a game hoping to promote cross console play, I would have expected an in-game voice guild chat system, as the benefits of voice chat are becoming quite clear with MMOs.
Honestly its a tool... and you talk about voice chat discrimination but what if i don't have a keyboard to use with my ps3? for console gaming voice chat just makes sense that's why any console game with online worth anything has it. Cross platform voice chat would just integrate people together... The type of Voice chat im suggesting isn't the open mic session like you would see on other games with kids constantly talking shit etc. It would be seperate invite that can be declined.
I like playing and not having to stop (put down the controller)all the time to type things out. .. on the PC it doesn't effect much.
The lack of immersion argument is moot because like I said if your in a gulid with a bunch of cussing whining kids then you really should leave if they burst your bubble.. The elitist view will still be there I'm sure not having ventrilo will still be a handicap and basically that quote from SE sums it up for me I'll have to get this on the PC no way am I dropping the controller to try to type something out.. I was looking forward to playing it on my hdtv too
I honestly hope not. Personally I don't really like the idea of voice chat for an MMO such as this for the reason not everyone has the capability of voice chatting. For instance you could have one person who is using voice chat that never types trying to communicate with someone who doesn't have a headset. There is already a natural break down in communication when one person can't hear the other person (also would be a problem for the hearing-impaired population when everyone is voice chatting and they physically can't hear them). A keyboard is a requirement -- a headset is not -- and by forcing the greater population to use it as the primary means of communication then you are conforming the common denominator which is the best thing when trying to build a game/community. You always have the option of going over the top and as long it remains over the top and doesn't segregate the population as the people who use voice chat think they are "teh uber 1337" and don't accept the non-voice chat people and vice-versa. For me personally I don't really want to listen to people banter and bitch when I am playing. FFXI was great where I could really focus on the party and the goals of my immediate group over the needs and bitching of my linkshell. There were a lot of times when I was in shell and drama was going on and I never noticed because everything was blended in so well with things in the chat window that I could concentrate on my thing, but if i needed to I could focus on the shell too. I'd find it very distracting to have someone chatting in my ear while I am trying to focus on. The only time I use voice chat is for Modern Warfare 2 (on the 360 btw) and only with my friends. I really can't stand listening to the shit talking (I mute half the people anyway) and when I have my friends talking to me I am still having some game play issues because my focus is split between listening to them talking and doing my thing. Which coincidentally why mandating that you can't use a cell phone without a headset is bullshit because your focus is still split just the same as if you had the phone in your hand ... but that is a post for another time.
what if i don't have a keyboard to use with my ps3? I'll have to get this on the PC no way am I dropping the controller to try to type something out.. I was looking forward to playing it on my hdtv too
First one: The PS3 (and the 360 too) has an on screen keyboard. Yes it is terrible and woefully inefficient, but this is a tool that will work. Also FFXI has a proprietary onscreen keyboard for the consoles. It is only marginally better, but even if you lacked a keyboard you can still communicate. Is a mic easier than this? Sure. But don't forget you need to communicate with those people I have used in previous posts. And I have also held back those people who A) might be wanted to listen to music or something other than playing so their game is muted while their music player is running or b) people who can't speak your language. Even if you can understand a language it is leaps and bounds easier to understand someone's typing than speaking. If you people had trouble getting "JPN only" parties before, wait til you refuse to type anything and only chatting while you have 5 Japanese players typing ...
Second one: I know people who played on the PS2 that would use a keyboard to chat and a controller to move. Honestly it equates to about a .5 second delay. One person I never knew she was on a PS2 until it came up randomly. I started on a PC and picked up the 360 version later on so I was weened on a keyboard. I have a Rocketfish keyboard/mouse I got off ebay for $30. I can controller it from 3 rooms away (i didn't have any more rooms or I would have tried for more). I just switch the dongle out between my PC, PS3, and 360 mattering on what I need to keyboard for atm. All of them work just fine with it. Honestly I find it kinda of annoying to switch between the controller and the keyboard which is why I am 100% keyboard even on the consoles.
Also there is a chat pad for both the 360 and PS3 that you can attach to your controller so your "keyboard" is already in your hands. The proprietary 360 chat pad is more intuitive since the keys are down below the controller right where your thumbs are. The PS3 has everything above the controller. I have never used it, but it seems out of place just looking at it. There are third party chat pads for the PS3 with the keys below the controller.
If you are already playing with people in other languages that you cant communicate with by typing then I think that pretty much invalidates the point that headsets make you unable to communicate with people that wont buy headsets. You already accepted the fact that it is ok for a game if not everyone can communicate effectively, and at least if there is a problem with the lack of a headset the players still have the option to type. With different languages you dont even have that.
Originally posted by toddze Icon is probably the guy who was running around waking crap up causing the sleepers to get owned thus causing a wipe, because he "knew his role" and knows best. When choas breaks out everyone has to be on the same page, and the same page may not be your normal role. More times than not the people who screw up a raid are the ones not on vent. Theres countless examples of this in FFXI.
Wait ... what now? ... ... ... dude ... personal attacks are not going to help your argument. And no, I WAS the sleeper. I was usually the guy who didn't die because he knew what he was doing well enough and understood the game mechanics better than 95% of the raid group. There is some degree of satisfaction when you are the only one of 30+ people standing at the end of the fight.
You have idiots running around in your shell that isn't my fault; find better players. I'd venture to guess that fuck-up X who wasn't running Vent would end up being fuck-up X that is running Vent if they wanted to be.
If you are already playing with people in other languages that you cant communicate with by typing then I think that pretty much invalidates the point that headsets make you unable to communicate with people that wont buy headsets. You already accepted the fact that it is ok for a game if not everyone can communicate effectively, and at least if there is a problem with the lack of a headset the players still have the option to type. With different languages you dont even have that.
like in FFXI, there is the auto-translate feature. It's not the most effective way to talk with people from other regions, but it does help to get basic points by. The fact that we are playing on mixed servers and the fact that its cross platform (one being a microsoft and the other Sony based product) doesn't make putting in voice communication easy to do. I think 80%+ people don't mind using outside means to talk, liek skype, vent, or private chat on PSN.
If you are already playing with people in other languages that you cant communicate with by typing then I think that pretty much invalidates the point that headsets make you unable to communicate with people that wont buy headsets. You already accepted the fact that it is ok for a game if not everyone can communicate effectively, and at least if there is a problem with the lack of a headset the players still have the option to type. With different languages you dont even have that.
like in FFXI, there is the auto-translate feature. It's not the most effective way to talk with people from other regions, but it does help to get basic points by. The fact that we are playing on mixed servers and the fact that its cross platform (one being a microsoft and the other Sony based product) doesn't make putting in voice communication easy to do. I think 80%+ people don't mind using outside means to talk, liek skype, vent, or private chat on PSN.
Exactly, that is what I plan to do even if playing on my PS3 or PC I will be using a chat program to talk to my ls on my PC. One thing that will help the PS3 folks if Sony will have cross game chat via the PSN that way atleast the PS3 folks without a PC can talk. That is on Sony to add that feature and I don't blame SE for not adding in game chat, one less thing to add/fix so or beloved game came launch earlier.
Sony is planning on adding in cross game chat soon, but sadly they want to make it a feature of the "pay monthly" thing. I was kind of pissed something simple like that is not part of the normal game, not having group, and ingame/cross game chat is a huge reason a lot of my friends stick to X360 for MP stuff. Heck even when we play PS3 stuff, we use XBL to chat because its easyer and the sound quality isn't so different between all th different bluetooth headsets, on XBL there is 2 headsets to choose from and they all work the same way.
Originally posted by toddze Icon is probably the guy who was running around waking crap up causing the sleepers to get owned thus causing a wipe, because he "knew his role" and knows best. When choas breaks out everyone has to be on the same page, and the same page may not be your normal role. More times than not the people who screw up a raid are the ones not on vent. Theres countless examples of this in FFXI.
Wait ... what now? ... ... ... dude ... personal attacks are not going to help your argument. And no, I WAS the sleeper. I was usually the guy who didn't die because he knew what he was doing well enough and understood the game mechanics better than 95% of the raid group. There is some degree of satisfaction when you are the only one of 30+ people standing at the end of the fight.
You have idiots running around in your shell that isn't my fault; find better players. I'd venture to guess that fuck-up X who wasn't running Vent would end up being fuck-up X that is running Vent if they wanted to be.
If you were a sleeper you should have known first hand the importance of everyone being on the same page and fast, because if someone wakes up something you just slept its coming after you. I also had a sleeper class.
For beanfeilds question: If I am wrong about what you quoted me saying, ffxiv will be pretty boring. The chance of unkown and unexpected is a large part of the fun. Anyways the devs have already said that there will be battles vs 1 and battles vs many. battles vs many is where the need for communication comes in.
I dont need to help my argument because voice is superior to text period. If anyone realy thinks text is equal to talking, they really need there heads checked and wake up to reality. If people are to stubborn to use voice chat thats there issue, and completly up to them. but dont make an asinine argument that text is equal to chat because its absolulty absurd and moronic.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Upon looking at some FFXI raids maybe I viewed the least intense ones but everything moved at a pretty slow pace... I do love the story, community, etc but most of what you do in mmorpgs is combat and if combat is that slow even at an endgame level I don't think this is going to hold my interest that long.. there is like literaly 5 seconds between attacks even when spamming skills there is no movement to any of the fights that is simply watching paint dry in my opinion... I suppose I'll look at TERA or something.. lol
I honestly hope not. Personally I don't really like the idea of voice chat for an MMO such as this for the reason not everyone has the capability of voice chatting. For instance you could have one person who is using voice chat that never types trying to communicate with someone who doesn't have a headset. There is already a natural break down in communication when one person can't hear the other person (also would be a problem for the hearing-impaired population when everyone is voice chatting and they physically can't hear them). A keyboard is a requirement -- a headset is not -- and by forcing the greater population to use it as the primary means of communication then you are conforming the common denominator which is the best thing when trying to build a game/community. You always have the option of going over the top and as long it remains over the top and doesn't segregate the population as the people who use voice chat think they are "teh uber 1337" and don't accept the non-voice chat people and vice-versa. For me personally I don't really want to listen to people banter and bitch when I am playing. FFXI was great where I could really focus on the party and the goals of my immediate group over the needs and bitching of my linkshell. There were a lot of times when I was in shell and drama was going on and I never noticed because everything was blended in so well with things in the chat window that I could concentrate on my thing, but if i needed to I could focus on the shell too. I'd find it very distracting to have someone chatting in my ear while I am trying to focus on. The only time I use voice chat is for Modern Warfare 2 (on the 360 btw) and only with my friends. I really can't stand listening to the shit talking (I mute half the people anyway) and when I have my friends talking to me I am still having some game play issues because my focus is split between listening to them talking and doing my thing. Which coincidentally why mandating that you can't use a cell phone without a headset is bullshit because your focus is still split just the same as if you had the phone in your hand ... but that is a post for another time.
The use of voice chat in raid situations is paramount, it could mean all the difference in sucess or failure. If a person is serious about being a good player they atleast have to be able to listen. It is also up to the leaders to make sure to have a mature guild on voice chat. It also does divide the guild if some dont get on vent, there is also a lack of communication, because no one wastse time to type instructions. IMO if a player doesnt want to be on vent to atleast listen to what the raid is about they dont deserve to be in the high end guild. Again it is up to the leaders of the guild to keep vent under control so its enjoyable for everyone and a productive experience.
Ok, this isn't intended to be a disagreement, just a question. I'm not going to quote anything, since it's been stated several times by different posters. But if I understand correctly, there are people saying that basically nobody playing on PS3, without access to voice chat, deserves to be in a high end guild. Am I understanding correctly?
Ok, this isn't intended to be a disagreement, just a question. I'm not going to quote anything, since it's been stated several times by different posters. But if I understand correctly, there are people saying that basically nobody playing on PS3, without access to voice chat, deserves to be in a high end guild. Am I understanding correctly?
No I dont think anyone went that far. I have heard of high end raiding guilds state that "you must be able to hear vent if you want to raid with us", but that was in several other games. I dont know if it was like that in FF.
Voice definately helps, no doubt about that. If you're a speed typer and get along fine without it then good for you, but you know sometimes people have chat text going by so fast that someone could miss something. Even in FFXI which is a slower paced game than say, WoW, voice helps. I was in a guild that did BCNM40 (i think that's what it was called) and others like that, job gear and such, and we never used voice. But, it certainly would have helped in some cases, specially since some were doing it for the first time.
Downside to voice is that you gotta wear that stupid thing on your ear that gets bothersome after awhile. Also, I don't like to be hearing conversation if I'm concentrated on the story/immersion of the game. I only use it when in productive groups.
Ok, this isn't intended to be a disagreement, just a question. I'm not going to quote anything, since it's been stated several times by different posters. But if I understand correctly, there are people saying that basically nobody playing on PS3, without access to voice chat, deserves to be in a high end guild. Am I understanding correctly?
Nope you miss understood me. Voice chat isnt a must. A lot of guilds do fine without it. For ps3 users i would suggest using a computer for voice chat, just about any computer can use vent (if your computer cant use vent i think its time to upgrade) and there are wireless headset so alot of ps3 users will still have the ability to use vent if they want to.
However if you want to maximize a guild's potential and success rate, voice chat is a tool that cannot be overlooked. The fact that a person has to stop playing the game to type instructions slows you down. For example the leader of my LS in FFXI was a whm, and I was the pld. Do I want the whm typing out instructions when things go the hell? Hell no i dont i want the whm focusing on keeping people alive and playing the game while giving instructions on vent. I dont care who you are or if your superman and can type 1000 wpm when your focus is shifted from playing to typing you loose effectiveness, unlike voice chat where you can talk and still be 100% focused on the task at hand, and ready to go. It can mean all the diffrence between a wipe or a recovery, it doesnt matter how slow the combat is theres times when it all speeds up, even in ffxi. (If you were a DD yes you had more time to type because your job was to do damage not much you can do when it all went to hell.)
Albytaps made another great point: Its easy for people to overlook text instructions, or just miss it. Anytime you can increase the number of senses you use the more you can process. Eyes and ears is much greater than just eyes.
Edit: for the people who think that vent only has the "uber 1337" people on vent, which is not the case, but its inevitable that there will be one or two of these people on vent. For this case chat programs has this beautiful little function called mute. But thinking everyone on vent is like that is a lame excuss not to use vent. By the off chance that vent is full of these type of people you need to ask yourself why your in that guild.
It just boils down to a lot of people are just not comfortable talking to other people and thats why they dont get on vent, and resent social people who have social skills who are just fine talking with total strangers. Again you can mute the munchin chip guy or mute the heavy breather, or you could kindly ask him to adjust his mike so it doesnt pick it up.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
If you are already playing with people in other languages that you cant communicate with by typing then I think that pretty much invalidates the point that headsets make you unable to communicate with people that wont buy headsets. You already accepted the fact that it is ok for a game if not everyone can communicate effectively, and at least if there is a problem with the lack of a headset the players still have the option to type. With different languages you dont even have that.
like in FFXI, there is the auto-translate feature. It's not the most effective way to talk with people from other regions, but it does help to get basic points by. The fact that we are playing on mixed servers and the fact that its cross platform (one being a microsoft and the other Sony based product) doesn't make putting in voice communication easy to do. I think 80%+ people don't mind using outside means to talk, liek skype, vent, or private chat on PSN.
I actually did a poll in the past it was 60/50 for voice chat across platforms.
True this is only a reflection of MMORPG.com views, but you saying "I think 80+% of people dont mind using outside means..." is coming right outta your backend, so just dont even say it.... and then someone went and agreed... I just don't get it... people tossing random numbers around and then others saying "yah 80 percent, that sounds about right to me too".
If you are already playing with people in other languages that you cant communicate with by typing then I think that pretty much invalidates the point that headsets make you unable to communicate with people that wont buy headsets. You already accepted the fact that it is ok for a game if not everyone can communicate effectively, and at least if there is a problem with the lack of a headset the players still have the option to type. With different languages you dont even have that.
like in FFXI, there is the auto-translate feature. It's not the most effective way to talk with people from other regions, but it does help to get basic points by. The fact that we are playing on mixed servers and the fact that its cross platform (one being a microsoft and the other Sony based product) doesn't make putting in voice communication easy to do. I think 80%+ people don't mind using outside means to talk, liek skype, vent, or private chat on PSN.
I actually did a poll in the past it was 60/50 for voice chat across platforms.
True this is only a reflection of MMORPG.com views, but you saying "I think 80+% of people dont mind using outside means..." is coming right outta your backend, so just dont even say it.... and then someone went and agreed... I just don't get it... people tossing random numbers around and then others saying "yah 80 percent, that sounds about right to me too".
[Mod Edit]
You don't get it because you are looking at it one sidedly its either your idea or nothing. He said he THINKS that 80%, its not a exact estimate but a guess. He is right mostly even he is guessing on the numbers, most people don't mind a outside means of chat but choose not to. I understand why some people don't want to chat either its the heavy breather, kids screaming, or non stop talking leet dude screaming, ect ect. Those are the reasons I don't chat UNLESS I'm raiding or in a group with a ls mate I don't mind talking to. Most of the time I try to look at both ends before I post instead of typing nonsense like you did. You bashing someone just for stating a comment is being a @#shole in my book. There are people here who are for or against an idea then back up there idea with a reason and for those who don't have a reason they say it nicely without bashing someone. If someone is against something I'm for, as long they say it in an adult respectful manner I will respect them even if it doesn't make since.
Bottom line is, SE will not add voice chat(as of yet), PS3 can't chat on PS3 console(unless Sony add in game chat), and the only way to chat is via vent, TS, and ect. If you don't like talking via these programs then don't use it. You can still enjoy the game typing and even venture into a end game without even talking.
Ok, this isn't intended to be a disagreement, just a question. I'm not going to quote anything, since it's been stated several times by different posters. But if I understand correctly, there are people saying that basically nobody playing on PS3, without access to voice chat, deserves to be in a high end guild. Am I understanding correctly?
Nope you miss understood me. Voice chat isnt a must. A lot of guilds do fine without it. For ps3 users i would suggest using a computer for voice chat, just about any computer can use vent (if your computer cant use vent i think its time to upgrade) and there are wireless headset so alot of ps3 users will still have the ability to use vent if they want to.
However if you want to maximize a guild's potential and success rate, voice chat is a tool that cannot be overlooked. The fact that a person has to stop playing the game to type instructions slows you down. For example the leader of my LS in FFXI was a whm, and I was the pld. Do I want the whm typing out instructions when things go the hell? Hell no i dont i want the whm focusing on keeping people alive and playing the game while giving instructions on vent. I dont care who you are or if your superman and can type 1000 wpm when your focus is shifted from playing to typing you loose effectiveness, unlike voice chat where you can talk and still be 100% focused on the task at hand, and ready to go. It can mean all the diffrence between a wipe or a recovery, it doesnt matter how slow the combat is theres times when it all speeds up, even in ffxi. (If you were a DD yes you had more time to type because your job was to do damage not much you can do when it all went to hell.)
Albytaps made another great point: Its easy for people to overlook text instructions, or just miss it. Anytime you can increase the number of senses you use the more you can process. Eyes and ears is much greater than just eyes.
Edit: for the people who think that vent only has the "uber 1337" people on vent, which is not the case, but its inevitable that there will be one or two of these people on vent. For this case chat programs has this beautiful little function called mute. But thinking everyone on vent is like that is a lame excuss not to use vent. By the off chance that vent is full of these type of people you need to ask yourself why your in that guild.
It just boils down to a lot of people are just not comfortable talking to other people and thats why they dont get on vent, and resent social people who have social skills who are just fine talking with total strangers. Again you can mute the munchin chip guy or mute the heavy breather, or you could kindly ask him to adjust his mike so it doesnt pick it up.
Ok, definitely some valid points in there. I see it's potential usefullness for sure, but at the same time I can't help but feel that if voice chat was so critical to successful gameplay, wouldn't the devs have included some form of it? Especially on PS3 which can't use programs like Vent. I could be wrong, maybe it's too difficult to implement or something, I honestly have no idea. I just don't think they'd leave us with only text communication if they didn't think it was highly feasible to play the game with that alone.
Ok, definitely some valid points in there. I see it's potential usefullness for sure, but at the same time I can't help but feel that if voice chat was so critical to successful gameplay, wouldn't the devs have included some form of it? Especially on PS3 which can't use programs like Vent. I could be wrong, maybe it's too difficult to implement or something, I honestly have no idea. I just don't think they'd leave us with only text communication if they didn't think it was highly feasible to play the game with that alone.
Well to me anyway that question makes sense. Like I said in a dozen other posts: If the developers want you to have it they will put it in the game. If they don't they won't. Proprietary voice chat would not be difficult to implement; Even going only as far as partnering with a Skype-type company would be adequate. It kinda pulls back to the same argument about the use of windower in FFXI. The program is not without merits, but if the developers wanted you to have on screen recast timers or arrow distance or whatever bullshit extensions windower has they would have put them into the game.
Demanding that a player using programs or tools extraneous to the game the developers give you is wrong. Even something as little as demanding someone use a forum is wrong. I personally have been booted out of a guild on WoW because I didn't sign up for their forums. I mean I know people who played FFXI that claim to not even have a computer (they played on their 360). I know someone who played WoW and FFXI on dial up up until 2 years ago. If you want to look at something like this and call bullshit go right ahead, but I'll tell you those people are not bad players. In fact they are two of the better players I have played with. Some of you might not be able to believe it, but there are plenty of people out there whose technology alone won't let them use something like vent. Thus why I keep saying: lowest common denominator.
If anyone wants to be so arrogant that they will only accept people who use add-ons or third party programs then go right ahead and continue to be arrogant. It won't effect me one bit in the long run because if someone demands that I use one I'd tell them to fuck off like I have told all the ones before.
Ok, definitely some valid points in there. I see it's potential usefullness for sure, but at the same time I can't help but feel that if voice chat was so critical to successful gameplay, wouldn't the devs have included some form of it? Especially on PS3 which can't use programs like Vent. I could be wrong, maybe it's too difficult to implement or something, I honestly have no idea. I just don't think they'd leave us with only text communication if they didn't think it was highly feasible to play the game with that alone.
I think the biggest reasons why more MMORPG's do not have a built in chat feature is because it is one hell of an immersian breaker and destroys RP. I would speculate that 5-8 years down the road we will see more in game chat programs. Theres a lot of guessing room to guess as to why MMORPG's do not have a built in chat function. You would have to ask SE to get there answer as to why they are not useing one in ffxiv, as only they know. But there is no guessing involved as to the advantages of voice chat.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Ok, definitely some valid points in there. I see it's potential usefullness for sure, but at the same time I can't help but feel that if voice chat was so critical to successful gameplay, wouldn't the devs have included some form of it? Especially on PS3 which can't use programs like Vent. I could be wrong, maybe it's too difficult to implement or something, I honestly have no idea. I just don't think they'd leave us with only text communication if they didn't think it was highly feasible to play the game with that alone.
I think the biggest reasons why more MMORPG's do not have a built in chat feature is because it is one hell of an immersian breaker and destroys RP. I would speculate that 5-8 years down the road we will see more in game chat programs. Theres a lot of guessing room to guess as to why MMORPG's do not have a built in chat function. You would have to ask SE to get there answer as to why they are not useing one in ffxiv, as only they know. But there is no guessing involved as to the advantages of voice chat.
What MOST people's issue with VC being in MMOs is that they are thinking of it in the wrong way. We don't want it to be a FORCED part of the game, and i think that's what most everyone is against and fears. An example is like say Playstation Home, where you HAD to listen to everyone around you, there was no choice in the matter...and look what happened, all the A-holes were so bad they took it out. Also people think of it like online games, like shooters where you get jammed into a lobby and everyone can talk or not. it's not like you can jump into that lobby and decide to not have anyones voice heard....your stuck either muting or doing somthing in that nature. People don't want to join a group in FF14 and have it work like a chat lobby, or run into a town and hear people yacking, which i fully understand.
What we want is a fully optional VA built in. Like having skype on the side, but not having to use it as an outside sourse, that works across all platforms. Somthing where you can go into a menu and start up a chat lobby with you party or guild and noones forced to listen in if they choose not to. Of course there will be A-holes that want you to "join our chat or leave" or "no headset, no joining our party" but that right there shows you that that group is clearly not friendly and are 99% likelt to be D-bags or "leetests". Now you know not to even bother interacting with them from here on out.
I dont know why so many here assume that there will be a problem with asses abusing the voice chat. They had it in lotro and 99% of the people I grouped with were very nice.
I dont know why so many here assume that there will be a problem with asses abusing the voice chat. They had it in lotro and 99% of the people I grouped with were very nice.
because there is that 1% out there gives all the other 99% a bad name, and that 1% gives fuel to the people arguing against voice chat and they grossly exagerate to try and prove a point.
(talking about mmorpg's not psn/xboxlive, thats a whole different beast in terms of voice chat)
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIV Favorite MMO: FFXI
Comments
I created a poll awhile ago; about 60 percent of potential players would like in-game voice communication, that would allow all guild members to speak to each other regardless of console or PC. It is unfortunate that so many people who voted against in game chat, did so because they will be using Vent. You'd think they would want that possible benefit for other FF14 players.
Will we get it? Right now SE is saying no. I think it would be nice. Allowing both the console and PC users to benefit from chat amongst themselves, instead of only those with access to a computer (and for console users a computer near their TV and console).
For a game hoping to promote cross console play, I would have expected an in-game voice guild chat system, as the benefits of voice chat are becoming quite clear with MMOs.
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
Honestly its a tool... and you talk about voice chat discrimination but what if i don't have a keyboard to use with my ps3? for console gaming voice chat just makes sense that's why any console game with online worth anything has it. Cross platform voice chat would just integrate people together... The type of Voice chat im suggesting isn't the open mic session like you would see on other games with kids constantly talking shit etc. It would be seperate invite that can be declined.
I like playing and not having to stop (put down the controller)all the time to type things out. .. on the PC it doesn't effect much.
The lack of immersion argument is moot because like I said if your in a gulid with a bunch of cussing whining kids then you really should leave if they burst your bubble.. The elitist view will still be there I'm sure not having ventrilo will still be a handicap and basically that quote from SE sums it up for me I'll have to get this on the PC no way am I dropping the controller to try to type something out.. I was looking forward to playing it on my hdtv too
QFT! Don't use a headset then.
First one: The PS3 (and the 360 too) has an on screen keyboard. Yes it is terrible and woefully inefficient, but this is a tool that will work. Also FFXI has a proprietary onscreen keyboard for the consoles. It is only marginally better, but even if you lacked a keyboard you can still communicate. Is a mic easier than this? Sure. But don't forget you need to communicate with those people I have used in previous posts. And I have also held back those people who A) might be wanted to listen to music or something other than playing so their game is muted while their music player is running or b) people who can't speak your language. Even if you can understand a language it is leaps and bounds easier to understand someone's typing than speaking. If you people had trouble getting "JPN only" parties before, wait til you refuse to type anything and only chatting while you have 5 Japanese players typing ...
Second one: I know people who played on the PS2 that would use a keyboard to chat and a controller to move. Honestly it equates to about a .5 second delay. One person I never knew she was on a PS2 until it came up randomly. I started on a PC and picked up the 360 version later on so I was weened on a keyboard. I have a Rocketfish keyboard/mouse I got off ebay for $30. I can controller it from 3 rooms away (i didn't have any more rooms or I would have tried for more). I just switch the dongle out between my PC, PS3, and 360 mattering on what I need to keyboard for atm. All of them work just fine with it. Honestly I find it kinda of annoying to switch between the controller and the keyboard which is why I am 100% keyboard even on the consoles.
Also there is a chat pad for both the 360 and PS3 that you can attach to your controller so your "keyboard" is already in your hands. The proprietary 360 chat pad is more intuitive since the keys are down below the controller right where your thumbs are. The PS3 has everything above the controller. I have never used it, but it seems out of place just looking at it. There are third party chat pads for the PS3 with the keys below the controller.
If you are already playing with people in other languages that you cant communicate with by typing then I think that pretty much invalidates the point that headsets make you unable to communicate with people that wont buy headsets. You already accepted the fact that it is ok for a game if not everyone can communicate effectively, and at least if there is a problem with the lack of a headset the players still have the option to type. With different languages you dont even have that.
Wait ... what now? ... ... ... dude ... personal attacks are not going to help your argument. And no, I WAS the sleeper. I was usually the guy who didn't die because he knew what he was doing well enough and understood the game mechanics better than 95% of the raid group. There is some degree of satisfaction when you are the only one of 30+ people standing at the end of the fight.
You have idiots running around in your shell that isn't my fault; find better players. I'd venture to guess that fuck-up X who wasn't running Vent would end up being fuck-up X that is running Vent if they wanted to be.
like in FFXI, there is the auto-translate feature. It's not the most effective way to talk with people from other regions, but it does help to get basic points by. The fact that we are playing on mixed servers and the fact that its cross platform (one being a microsoft and the other Sony based product) doesn't make putting in voice communication easy to do. I think 80%+ people don't mind using outside means to talk, liek skype, vent, or private chat on PSN.
like in FFXI, there is the auto-translate feature. It's not the most effective way to talk with people from other regions, but it does help to get basic points by. The fact that we are playing on mixed servers and the fact that its cross platform (one being a microsoft and the other Sony based product) doesn't make putting in voice communication easy to do. I think 80%+ people don't mind using outside means to talk, liek skype, vent, or private chat on PSN.
Exactly, that is what I plan to do even if playing on my PS3 or PC I will be using a chat program to talk to my ls on my PC. One thing that will help the PS3 folks if Sony will have cross game chat via the PSN that way atleast the PS3 folks without a PC can talk. That is on Sony to add that feature and I don't blame SE for not adding in game chat, one less thing to add/fix so or beloved game came launch earlier.
Sony is planning on adding in cross game chat soon, but sadly they want to make it a feature of the "pay monthly" thing. I was kind of pissed something simple like that is not part of the normal game, not having group, and ingame/cross game chat is a huge reason a lot of my friends stick to X360 for MP stuff. Heck even when we play PS3 stuff, we use XBL to chat because its easyer and the sound quality isn't so different between all th different bluetooth headsets, on XBL there is 2 headsets to choose from and they all work the same way.
Wait ... what now? ... ... ... dude ... personal attacks are not going to help your argument. And no, I WAS the sleeper. I was usually the guy who didn't die because he knew what he was doing well enough and understood the game mechanics better than 95% of the raid group. There is some degree of satisfaction when you are the only one of 30+ people standing at the end of the fight.
You have idiots running around in your shell that isn't my fault; find better players. I'd venture to guess that fuck-up X who wasn't running Vent would end up being fuck-up X that is running Vent if they wanted to be.
If you were a sleeper you should have known first hand the importance of everyone being on the same page and fast, because if someone wakes up something you just slept its coming after you. I also had a sleeper class.
For beanfeilds question: If I am wrong about what you quoted me saying, ffxiv will be pretty boring. The chance of unkown and unexpected is a large part of the fun. Anyways the devs have already said that there will be battles vs 1 and battles vs many. battles vs many is where the need for communication comes in.
I dont need to help my argument because voice is superior to text period. If anyone realy thinks text is equal to talking, they really need there heads checked and wake up to reality. If people are to stubborn to use voice chat thats there issue, and completly up to them. but dont make an asinine argument that text is equal to chat because its absolulty absurd and moronic.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Upon looking at some FFXI raids maybe I viewed the least intense ones but everything moved at a pretty slow pace... I do love the story, community, etc but most of what you do in mmorpgs is combat and if combat is that slow even at an endgame level I don't think this is going to hold my interest that long.. there is like literaly 5 seconds between attacks even when spamming skills there is no movement to any of the fights that is simply watching paint dry in my opinion... I suppose I'll look at TERA or something.. lol
its hard for voice chat to work when there people in other languages grouping with you everyones going be on same sever
The use of voice chat in raid situations is paramount, it could mean all the difference in sucess or failure. If a person is serious about being a good player they atleast have to be able to listen. It is also up to the leaders to make sure to have a mature guild on voice chat. It also does divide the guild if some dont get on vent, there is also a lack of communication, because no one wastse time to type instructions. IMO if a player doesnt want to be on vent to atleast listen to what the raid is about they dont deserve to be in the high end guild. Again it is up to the leaders of the guild to keep vent under control so its enjoyable for everyone and a productive experience.
I agree with this completely.
Ok, this isn't intended to be a disagreement, just a question. I'm not going to quote anything, since it's been stated several times by different posters. But if I understand correctly, there are people saying that basically nobody playing on PS3, without access to voice chat, deserves to be in a high end guild. Am I understanding correctly?
No I dont think anyone went that far. I have heard of high end raiding guilds state that "you must be able to hear vent if you want to raid with us", but that was in several other games. I dont know if it was like that in FF.
Voice definately helps, no doubt about that. If you're a speed typer and get along fine without it then good for you, but you know sometimes people have chat text going by so fast that someone could miss something. Even in FFXI which is a slower paced game than say, WoW, voice helps. I was in a guild that did BCNM40 (i think that's what it was called) and others like that, job gear and such, and we never used voice. But, it certainly would have helped in some cases, specially since some were doing it for the first time.
Downside to voice is that you gotta wear that stupid thing on your ear that gets bothersome after awhile. Also, I don't like to be hearing conversation if I'm concentrated on the story/immersion of the game. I only use it when in productive groups.
Nope you miss understood me. Voice chat isnt a must. A lot of guilds do fine without it. For ps3 users i would suggest using a computer for voice chat, just about any computer can use vent (if your computer cant use vent i think its time to upgrade) and there are wireless headset so alot of ps3 users will still have the ability to use vent if they want to.
However if you want to maximize a guild's potential and success rate, voice chat is a tool that cannot be overlooked. The fact that a person has to stop playing the game to type instructions slows you down. For example the leader of my LS in FFXI was a whm, and I was the pld. Do I want the whm typing out instructions when things go the hell? Hell no i dont i want the whm focusing on keeping people alive and playing the game while giving instructions on vent. I dont care who you are or if your superman and can type 1000 wpm when your focus is shifted from playing to typing you loose effectiveness, unlike voice chat where you can talk and still be 100% focused on the task at hand, and ready to go. It can mean all the diffrence between a wipe or a recovery, it doesnt matter how slow the combat is theres times when it all speeds up, even in ffxi. (If you were a DD yes you had more time to type because your job was to do damage not much you can do when it all went to hell.)
Albytaps made another great point: Its easy for people to overlook text instructions, or just miss it. Anytime you can increase the number of senses you use the more you can process. Eyes and ears is much greater than just eyes.
Edit: for the people who think that vent only has the "uber 1337" people on vent, which is not the case, but its inevitable that there will be one or two of these people on vent. For this case chat programs has this beautiful little function called mute. But thinking everyone on vent is like that is a lame excuss not to use vent. By the off chance that vent is full of these type of people you need to ask yourself why your in that guild.
It just boils down to a lot of people are just not comfortable talking to other people and thats why they dont get on vent, and resent social people who have social skills who are just fine talking with total strangers. Again you can mute the munchin chip guy or mute the heavy breather, or you could kindly ask him to adjust his mike so it doesnt pick it up.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
like in FFXI, there is the auto-translate feature. It's not the most effective way to talk with people from other regions, but it does help to get basic points by. The fact that we are playing on mixed servers and the fact that its cross platform (one being a microsoft and the other Sony based product) doesn't make putting in voice communication easy to do. I think 80%+ people don't mind using outside means to talk, liek skype, vent, or private chat on PSN.
I actually did a poll in the past it was 60/50 for voice chat across platforms.
True this is only a reflection of MMORPG.com views, but you saying "I think 80+% of people dont mind using outside means..." is coming right outta your backend, so just dont even say it.... and then someone went and agreed... I just don't get it... people tossing random numbers around and then others saying "yah 80 percent, that sounds about right to me too".
[Mod Edit]
WOOT
www.eorzeapedia.com
(Great FF14 source)
like in FFXI, there is the auto-translate feature. It's not the most effective way to talk with people from other regions, but it does help to get basic points by. The fact that we are playing on mixed servers and the fact that its cross platform (one being a microsoft and the other Sony based product) doesn't make putting in voice communication easy to do. I think 80%+ people don't mind using outside means to talk, liek skype, vent, or private chat on PSN.
I actually did a poll in the past it was 60/50 for voice chat across platforms.
True this is only a reflection of MMORPG.com views, but you saying "I think 80+% of people dont mind using outside means..." is coming right outta your backend, so just dont even say it.... and then someone went and agreed... I just don't get it... people tossing random numbers around and then others saying "yah 80 percent, that sounds about right to me too".
[Mod Edit]
You don't get it because you are looking at it one sidedly its either your idea or nothing. He said he THINKS that 80%, its not a exact estimate but a guess. He is right mostly even he is guessing on the numbers, most people don't mind a outside means of chat but choose not to. I understand why some people don't want to chat either its the heavy breather, kids screaming, or non stop talking leet dude screaming, ect ect. Those are the reasons I don't chat UNLESS I'm raiding or in a group with a ls mate I don't mind talking to. Most of the time I try to look at both ends before I post instead of typing nonsense like you did. You bashing someone just for stating a comment is being a @#shole in my book. There are people here who are for or against an idea then back up there idea with a reason and for those who don't have a reason they say it nicely without bashing someone. If someone is against something I'm for, as long they say it in an adult respectful manner I will respect them even if it doesn't make since.
Bottom line is, SE will not add voice chat(as of yet), PS3 can't chat on PS3 console(unless Sony add in game chat), and the only way to chat is via vent, TS, and ect. If you don't like talking via these programs then don't use it. You can still enjoy the game typing and even venture into a end game without even talking.
Nope you miss understood me. Voice chat isnt a must. A lot of guilds do fine without it. For ps3 users i would suggest using a computer for voice chat, just about any computer can use vent (if your computer cant use vent i think its time to upgrade) and there are wireless headset so alot of ps3 users will still have the ability to use vent if they want to.
However if you want to maximize a guild's potential and success rate, voice chat is a tool that cannot be overlooked. The fact that a person has to stop playing the game to type instructions slows you down. For example the leader of my LS in FFXI was a whm, and I was the pld. Do I want the whm typing out instructions when things go the hell? Hell no i dont i want the whm focusing on keeping people alive and playing the game while giving instructions on vent. I dont care who you are or if your superman and can type 1000 wpm when your focus is shifted from playing to typing you loose effectiveness, unlike voice chat where you can talk and still be 100% focused on the task at hand, and ready to go. It can mean all the diffrence between a wipe or a recovery, it doesnt matter how slow the combat is theres times when it all speeds up, even in ffxi. (If you were a DD yes you had more time to type because your job was to do damage not much you can do when it all went to hell.)
Albytaps made another great point: Its easy for people to overlook text instructions, or just miss it. Anytime you can increase the number of senses you use the more you can process. Eyes and ears is much greater than just eyes.
Edit: for the people who think that vent only has the "uber 1337" people on vent, which is not the case, but its inevitable that there will be one or two of these people on vent. For this case chat programs has this beautiful little function called mute. But thinking everyone on vent is like that is a lame excuss not to use vent. By the off chance that vent is full of these type of people you need to ask yourself why your in that guild.
It just boils down to a lot of people are just not comfortable talking to other people and thats why they dont get on vent, and resent social people who have social skills who are just fine talking with total strangers. Again you can mute the munchin chip guy or mute the heavy breather, or you could kindly ask him to adjust his mike so it doesnt pick it up.
Ok, definitely some valid points in there. I see it's potential usefullness for sure, but at the same time I can't help but feel that if voice chat was so critical to successful gameplay, wouldn't the devs have included some form of it? Especially on PS3 which can't use programs like Vent. I could be wrong, maybe it's too difficult to implement or something, I honestly have no idea. I just don't think they'd leave us with only text communication if they didn't think it was highly feasible to play the game with that alone.
Well to me anyway that question makes sense. Like I said in a dozen other posts: If the developers want you to have it they will put it in the game. If they don't they won't. Proprietary voice chat would not be difficult to implement; Even going only as far as partnering with a Skype-type company would be adequate. It kinda pulls back to the same argument about the use of windower in FFXI. The program is not without merits, but if the developers wanted you to have on screen recast timers or arrow distance or whatever bullshit extensions windower has they would have put them into the game.
Demanding that a player using programs or tools extraneous to the game the developers give you is wrong. Even something as little as demanding someone use a forum is wrong. I personally have been booted out of a guild on WoW because I didn't sign up for their forums. I mean I know people who played FFXI that claim to not even have a computer (they played on their 360). I know someone who played WoW and FFXI on dial up up until 2 years ago. If you want to look at something like this and call bullshit go right ahead, but I'll tell you those people are not bad players. In fact they are two of the better players I have played with. Some of you might not be able to believe it, but there are plenty of people out there whose technology alone won't let them use something like vent. Thus why I keep saying: lowest common denominator.
If anyone wants to be so arrogant that they will only accept people who use add-ons or third party programs then go right ahead and continue to be arrogant. It won't effect me one bit in the long run because if someone demands that I use one I'd tell them to fuck off like I have told all the ones before.
Ok, definitely some valid points in there. I see it's potential usefullness for sure, but at the same time I can't help but feel that if voice chat was so critical to successful gameplay, wouldn't the devs have included some form of it? Especially on PS3 which can't use programs like Vent. I could be wrong, maybe it's too difficult to implement or something, I honestly have no idea. I just don't think they'd leave us with only text communication if they didn't think it was highly feasible to play the game with that alone.
I think the biggest reasons why more MMORPG's do not have a built in chat feature is because it is one hell of an immersian breaker and destroys RP. I would speculate that 5-8 years down the road we will see more in game chat programs. Theres a lot of guessing room to guess as to why MMORPG's do not have a built in chat function. You would have to ask SE to get there answer as to why they are not useing one in ffxiv, as only they know. But there is no guessing involved as to the advantages of voice chat.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Ok, definitely some valid points in there. I see it's potential usefullness for sure, but at the same time I can't help but feel that if voice chat was so critical to successful gameplay, wouldn't the devs have included some form of it? Especially on PS3 which can't use programs like Vent. I could be wrong, maybe it's too difficult to implement or something, I honestly have no idea. I just don't think they'd leave us with only text communication if they didn't think it was highly feasible to play the game with that alone.
I think the biggest reasons why more MMORPG's do not have a built in chat feature is because it is one hell of an immersian breaker and destroys RP. I would speculate that 5-8 years down the road we will see more in game chat programs. Theres a lot of guessing room to guess as to why MMORPG's do not have a built in chat function. You would have to ask SE to get there answer as to why they are not useing one in ffxiv, as only they know. But there is no guessing involved as to the advantages of voice chat.
What MOST people's issue with VC being in MMOs is that they are thinking of it in the wrong way. We don't want it to be a FORCED part of the game, and i think that's what most everyone is against and fears. An example is like say Playstation Home, where you HAD to listen to everyone around you, there was no choice in the matter...and look what happened, all the A-holes were so bad they took it out. Also people think of it like online games, like shooters where you get jammed into a lobby and everyone can talk or not. it's not like you can jump into that lobby and decide to not have anyones voice heard....your stuck either muting or doing somthing in that nature. People don't want to join a group in FF14 and have it work like a chat lobby, or run into a town and hear people yacking, which i fully understand.
What we want is a fully optional VA built in. Like having skype on the side, but not having to use it as an outside sourse, that works across all platforms. Somthing where you can go into a menu and start up a chat lobby with you party or guild and noones forced to listen in if they choose not to. Of course there will be A-holes that want you to "join our chat or leave" or "no headset, no joining our party" but that right there shows you that that group is clearly not friendly and are 99% likelt to be D-bags or "leetests". Now you know not to even bother interacting with them from here on out.
I dont know why so many here assume that there will be a problem with asses abusing the voice chat. They had it in lotro and 99% of the people I grouped with were very nice.
because there is that 1% out there gives all the other 99% a bad name, and that 1% gives fuel to the people arguing against voice chat and they grossly exagerate to try and prove a point.
(talking about mmorpg's not psn/xboxlive, thats a whole different beast in terms of voice chat)
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI