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Sadly this game is not for me
Hi all,
While my account on this site is new I have been an avid MMO gamer since 2005 and tried most new subscription based MMORPGs over the last 5 years.
To preface my comments I have become very tired of “theme park” style MMOs the last few years. Given the enormous time outlay for all MMOs I find after reaching end game in theme park games and becoming a uber master of all things its sad that your avatar will have no imprint on the world in anyway. Sure I might be a Raid and PvP master in instanced events but as soon as I log off nothing I did that night will have a true lasting impact.
With that being said I love the idea of Darkfall and games like it. The concept that my actions can leave a last imprint on an ever-changing world seems to make the investment of time in the MMO much more meaningful somehow.
In my opinion an every changing world with events controlled by players should really be the basis of all MMOG. What’s the point in having 1000s of players in the same world in a PvE server with a fully instanced end game? (WOW Im looking at you buddy).
So pursuant to the above last month I started playing darkfall. It actually breaks my heart to say this but while the open unrestrictive world and full loot concept is great – I just didn’t find the game quality to be at a level I could withstand.
The UI is absolutely horrendous and the game play (to me) just is not satisfactory. I know Aventurine is really trying but for whatever reason the PvE and PvP are clunky and very rudimentary. While I wish the game all the success in the world I do believe this game will never be able to retain any significant streamlined player base.
For me the ideal MMO would have the core concepts of a game like Darkfall but the UI and game play of a AAA theme park style game. However I realize for this to every happen a large company would have to take a really risk and say “we are not the next WoW clone; we want to evolve the MMO experience and explore what can truely be done in a MMO environment”.
Sadly large budget games like STO and SWTOR are trending towards even less immersion and more instancing then WoW. For those of you who don’t understand the frustration with a game like SWTOR that many of us feel its because every large MMO the keeps the status quo means that evolution of the industry will continue to remain stagnant for that much longer.
I honestly believe why so many of these AAA games fail in the long run is that they are competing directly with the monster (aka WoW). When a company has billions of dollars to invest in their highly successful franchise getting a competitor to flourish from the ground up is almost impossible. A large budget Sandbox would be distinguished enough that a large and profitable market could naturally develop.
Oh well maybe on day…………….
Comments
And that's okay
You will find your game soon....
Pepsi1028
PEPSI!!!!!
Get out of your box already...
Bloodbone,
I realize you don't know me, but I have to ask you a small favor.
If you still have an active Darkfall account: Forget everything you know about MMOs and approach this from a "new perspective". Go into it not expecting anything, act like you are new to the genre. I know it's hard, but really from one MMOer to the another ... try it. I hate to think you might miss out on how good the experience is because of the concepts, UIs, combat you've become accustomed too.
I came from UO, and It took some adjustment from my end to really enjoy WoW for what it was ... I had to "forget what I thought I knew, and what I was used too".
If you can do this, than you'll see there is a really good, meaty bit of game to be played and enjoyed.
MMO Strategy Guides
I have also played most p2p mmos, and to me the Darkfall UI is refreshing and great. The only problem I have is the chat that could need some love.
As for PVE and PVP clunky and rudimentary? Compared to the other games they are quite good. Although they could certainly add some deeper quest lines with lore; and bring the world more alive with things like birds & NPCs, and of course the world sounds that are completely absent from the game.
All in all, even with its shortcomings I think DF is one of the best mmos.
My guess is the interface and its interaction with the world is because its needed for the risk pvp implemented in darkfall. The devs wanted it this way. Ofcourse they could make it all easier but they wanted it to mimic a realistic pvp world where they'd retain the risk factor in the game. If they'd have made it any other way it would be more like a warhammer online version.
I play darkfall myself in my first free month and as much as i like the game the interface and its sluggishness can really annoy me. You have to get used to it. I do understand though the way the interface works is a choice the devs made and it does work for the pvp world darkfall is.
But there's a big 2010 update comming and i do have the feeling they'll try to make the interface alot smoother to handle somehow to probably please a bunch of current players and please new subscribers. Truth is, i guess, that the implementation of the interface is a bit to hardcore to many players their liking and well after all they do need, or would like, more subscribers.
Im guessing they'll make the interface's use while in combat much more user friendly.
Im fine with the way looting works for instance. It works great for darkfall, its slow, you cant see whats happening around you and well you are always aware of the danger while looting lol. I dunno. I've played dark age of camelot for a long time, several times, and there the interface is comparable. It also reminds me of older mmorpgs which i enjoyed alot. Just somehow in darkfall it feels more sluggish then in other older mmorpgs. There's to many steps for each action in my taste. Sheath to equip, then maybe switch to a bar, then use a skill. This while trying to maybe strafe or press the sprint skill and aim at the same time. Even talking to an npc means you have to unsheath your weapon first. This all is fairly realistic and does work well for a pvp game but to my personal taste there's to many steps involved.
As an example of all the work you have to do take pve for example. Now the ai in darkfall is crazy !! The mobs strafe, run away, run towards you, gank you and do anything a normal player would do. On top of that they will always find you wherever you rest in a large agro radius. They hear you or know you are there and come look for you. It doesnt matter if you rest in a house up the stairs, this house is in their camp, and hide in a corner lol. Unless you sneak and make no sound they will come up the stairs and hunt you down. So you never have any break unless you run far away from their camp out of their agro radius. Yep the mob ai in darkfall is pretty nuts, hehehe !
After playing darkfall for an hour farming mobs my hands hurt from all the keyboard work i have to handle while switching weapons and pressing keys and aiming at the same time plus moving at the same time. Its very tiring on the hands for me lol. Granted im a newby ofcourse and only play it since a little over a week.
I do hope they make it all easier to handle, the interface, and i have a feeling they are working on it, hopefully.
There are some very rudimentary problems with the UI(such as hotbars not switching when you change weapons). Changing the UI and gameplay to mirror the same basic bland tab/target UI and control scheme that inhabits 95% of other games is not the solution... it would be a gigantic step backwards.
The UI is nowhere near as bad as people make it out to be. It needs a few tweaks to make it more user friendly with hotbar switching and such... and the chat interface needs to be overhauled badly, but otherwise its a very decent setup.
I will say its mildly ridiculous that the UIs inadequacies (and the chat system) haven't been fixed yet after a year of launch. It's really nothing short of laziness and poor management of resources on AVs part.
Welcome to mortal online. DF is a great game, but only reason why i dont sub in is because of the stupid grind. Even the DF long term player base agree that DF is a stupid grind. Even if they agree, they keep on playing and it wont be long teal they finally decide to join Mortal online(when it will fully be playable and fun.)
C:\Users\FF\Desktop\spin move.gif
MO core concepts surrounding PvP are broken. It won't attract any of the DFO crowd that still plays the game.Some of the people from DFO who went to it already quit and came back. Combat is too slow and the war dec system combined with the flagging system and how territory is owned all lead to a bad PvP game DFO's player base's eyes.
Part of the reason for the clunky UI, besides some of having different skill actviators for the same base skill and chat, is caused by the fact that it has FPS mechanics. FE has a very similar UI. Also, some of the problems with the UI can be fixed through rebinding keys.
Hope you find your game, but I wouldn't give up on it just because of the UI. GL all the same.
Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher
Having a programmable keyboard means I don't have to to any digit gymnastics. I don't need to stretch and hold down two keys to sprint just one. I can change hotbars by pressing one key, in fact I don't need to press two keys to do anything anymore. The sheathe/unsheathe part takes getting used to, but after being owned several times due to it I reckon I've got it nailed down now.
Not sure what people mean when they say the UI "feels" clunky or "feels" sluggish as it's no worse than any other MMORPG I've played personally. I reckon it's due to having to use it more than in others, no auto loot and so forth.
If you have a programmable keyboard use it to cut out having to hold down two keys at once, if not then get a progammable keyboard!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Hehe, it's like saying "this Battlefield game isn't bad, great idea at least, but I'd prefer it have gameplay and UI of StarCraft"...
Outstanding post. Further I honestly was overjoyed to read the post. You have a very exceptional grasp of prose, I recommend you consider becoming a author. I strongly feel you have a genuine ability to convey concepts and ideas beyond the normal reach of the main stream.
At any rate DFO is not eveyones cup of tea, and perhaps not yours.
But then we had sandbox AAA titles for example PRE CU SWG and the mainstream ignored it. If SWG with such a strong IP like the Star Wars Theme and such sandbox rich gameplay can't compete with WoW numbers who else ?
The mainstream want instant gratification, that means 1 click or at the most 2 clicks away from complete things, they want to do all things solo while spending at much straight 15 min at the keyboard. Maybe the games are polished AAA but players of those are C grade..
Darkfalls has and requires AAA MMORPG players and UI is not too demanding anyway, anyone who has played a RTS know what a demanding UI is and how fast someone has to click and to react and to switch to win.
There is a saying that can describe it , "the equipment is may be bad but the people are made of iron"
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
The mainstream did not ignore it as they didn't exist, SWG pulled 500k subs in the early days which was a very respectable number in the pre-wow days before MMO's became mainstream. I completely agree though post WOW MMO Players are of a different mentality.
No sense of community
Insta win buttons
Insta gratification
Rareley helpful
If its not me me me then they just are'nt interested.
SWG had content issues, even for a sandbox. The Galactic Civil War left a lot to be desired, and many people were just focused on the path of figuring how to open Jedi. I think some people were turned of when they played a SW game, and melee ruled the day.
It had a fantastic base, with crafting, and player towns, and some of the quest lines were pretty decent, but still needed a bit of work. Little did we know what that work would be
Getting off topic though...
Hey Seytan,
I appreciate the compliment. I used to be a mediocre writer but I became a lawyer several years ago. Being in my profession forces a certain economy and clarity in ones prose.
It seems you want a sandbox, did you try EvE? Or perhaps Fallen Earth?
I tried both, and neither game was for me, but thought to throw that out there. Perhaps keep an eye on Earthrise.
Good luck finding a game you enjoy, sadly, its not as easy as it sounds : /
SW:ToR is not even out yet. Your wild speculation that it is highly instanced is probably not entirely accurate as the developers have stated they will have large open worlds (planets) to explore with other players.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
According to SOE press release and mmogchart.com SWG got top numbers at 240k/300k subscribers in 2004, not even 12 motnhs after the release, and was declining ever since.
OP - The controls unsettled me as well, early on, and even now I have to remember the sheathe - F - loot - unsheathe process. I cannot say I had any problems with the UI, but the controls took some adjustment.
I would encourage you to do what another poster suggested...stick to it until your finger memory becomes used to the unique set-up, and then see where you stand on the game as a whole.
Whatever you decide, thank you for the well written and thoughtful post.
-tal
Hi Marcus,
Like you I tried Fallen Earth and it wasn’t really for me either. While it was an interesting game I didn’t think it had the same level of immersion as Darkfall. Interestingly I haven’t tried EVE; I think that might be the next MMORPG I try.
Pursuant to some of the above comments I wish I had tried SWG back when it was a sandbox game. I wonder if it might not garner more interest today. I say this on the basis that theme park games (especially WoW) are generally ones first foray into MMORPG and since that market has matured a great deal it would be logical that a larger percentage of players are looking for a more sophisticated MMO.
Hey Bloodbone,
Well DF is not for everyone, it takes Cohones to survive in Agon, and since this games has some moments of frustration it cannot suit everyones preference. But for me it is not understandable, even though you like full loot concept and Open-PVP that little things like the UI hinder you from enjoying the game. I wouldnt say the UI is horrendous, it really isnt, it is just different, thats all, i mean it could need some minor polish, but is not worse then other games, since DF is no Point-and-Click adventure. PVE and PVP is sluggish?? This is a point i really cannot understand, i think the game could need some more PVE in sort of storylined quests, and what i read from Tasos they are working on it, as well as the newbie protection system, which will bring up an even stronger playerbase i think. The PVE combat is by far the best i ever experienced the FPS is just great implemented ( if you compare it e. g. to FE), and PVP is da Bomb! What exactly you find sluggish about the PVP in DF? And how long did you actually played it? I am sorry but you post sounds like a commonplace half-trollling post, with no real criticism that can stand up to any realy discussion. I mean i leave you with your opinion no problem, but i just cannot find any base for PVP beeing sluggish...I am playing a few weeks now - with some moments of frustration here and there - but after all DF is the best MMO outthere ATM!
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." - Frank Zappa -
Xpiher, can you throw here a link to your legal macro topic ? I found it much useful and I have to say I use it every day to switch between weapons and take out 1h and shield with just one button.
All right I found it. How to make GUI much easier to use in combat:
forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
All right I found it. How to make GUI much easier to use in combat:
forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php
There is a program X-Mouse Button Control. You can bind hotbar switching to scroll up and down. Then simulated your 4 and 5 mouse buttons to scrolling and use them. So you can change hotbars with just a single push.
You can do all of this with the ingame key rebinding options (that's what I did).
Xipher also confirms this on page 2 of the thread you linked (it seems the options were improved in a game update).
You can do all of this with the ingame key rebinding options (that's what I did).
Xipher also confirms this on page 2 of the thread you linked (it seems the options were improved in a game update).
Interesting, can you explain me the whole procedure please ?
Options > input bindings.
Everything is there including the mouse scroll wheel axis.
And regarding the 1 click to equip the sword and the shield together, the game also does this automatically.
I.ex: if you have sword equipped with your shield, every time you select the hot bar or binding to re-equip the sword the shield will be equipped as well.
edit: and DON'T FORGET to change the key binding for "switching the hotbars" from the left_shift to the right_shift key; so that you can use your hotbar key bindings (i.ex: your skills, weapons, etc...) while running (otherwise the default option will cycle the hotbars instead of using the actions).