Cryptic didn't make this game just for you. Stop being so self-absorbed.

brihtwulf · February 2010

It's so irritating to hear the number of people who say stupid things like:

- This isn't how I would have made the game.

- This isn't how I wanted/expected it to be.

- This game is too "casual"-focused.

- This game is boring.

1. I'm guessing that maybe 0.0001% of the members on this forum actually have the ability or talent to create a game, especially an MMO. You didn't make the game, so stop the ridiculous comments about how YOU would have done it "right".

2. Having expectations on what you "hope" a game will be is fine. We all see images and trailers and previews, and hope it will be just what we want. But if it's not, it isn't the developer's "fault". They didn't make the game just for YOU! If you don't like the way it has been made, then don't play it. If someone released Neverwinter Nights 3 and it wasn't the way you thought, I doubt the number of people would be on forums screaming about how they "didn't make it right".

3. They made the game casual-focused intentionally, and it's been obvious through the entire process. All the interviews indicated that this was not some sort of hardcore penalty-fest that only the most "uber" of players could conquer. There aren't 40-man raids, or open PvP everywhere. If you don't like the system, don't play it. They're not going to rework the entire game just for YOU.

4. Boringness is in the eye of the player. It's subjective. Some people enjoy reading the stories of the missions, the combination of ground and space combat, and the strategies they can employ in both. But again, if you think it's boring, then don't play it.

I don't have any pity for the people who pre-ordered the game, only to whine and quit after they got into the open beta. If you payed the entire value of the game to a non-refunding company, then that's YOUR fault. Could you have gone to any game store like Gamestop and pre-ordered, then cancelled and gotten all your money back? Yes. There's your lesson: don't buy something you're not completely sure about. Would you go online and buy a car you'd never seen before, and hadn't done your research on? It sounds pretty stupid, and doing it with anything else is just as dumb (only with a smaller monetary risk).

It's quite simple, some people like this game, and some people clearly do not. But quit being so self-centered and coming on these forums calling the game a "failure" because it's not exactly what YOU want. Get over yourselves, and go play some other game that was made exactly to your tastes.

brihtwulf · February 2010

Originally posted by Robokapp

I don't see the issue here. those who don't like it say so, vote so and rank so. those who do, vote rank and comment positively. The overall results are what the entire participating community averages at. Isn't that the point of voting and reviewing/discussing a game?

The problem with most of the people posting negative comments is that they either make up things about why the game is bad, or they just come on and say, "This game sucks!" without any explanation or reason.

People have unrealistic views of self-entitlement. They think they should get what they want when they want it, and if they don't they throw a fit like a little child. And those little child-rants are what clogs the forums with baseless accusations and lies and the game. It's like they will say anything to make people hate the game like they do.

ktanner3 · February 2010

That type of stuff really doesn't bother me anymore because it's really the same 5 or so posters posting variations of the same thing in every thread. They were doing it before Open Beta and they will continue to do it. The ones that are enjoying the game are doing so and the ones who don't just moved on to the next game. It's only a tiny percentage of people.

japo · February 2010

OP....Seriously?

This is 2010 and you're on the internet.

Read a forum on anything....food, politics, health, religion, current events.....there are a ton of opinions including many that don't make sense or are just plain stupid.

People bitch, people whine, people complain, and people praise.

Why do you care? That's the question that you need to answer.

Jacobin · February 2010

I and likely many others come to these forums to see what other people think about various games, especially new releases. I am thankful when people offer critical assessments as it often saves me from playing games that I wouldn't enjoy.

brostyn · February 2010

Actually, I'm pretty sure they did make this game for others to play...

Kyleran · February 2010

Originally posted by japo

OP....Seriously?

This is 2010 and you're on the internet.
Read a forum on anything....food, politics, health, religion, current events.....there are a ton of opinions including many that don't make sense or are just plain stupid.
People bitch, people whine, people complain, and people praise.
Why do you care? That's the question that you need to answer.

I have to agree, forums exist for exactly the reasons mentioned above, and forums are just another type of PVP interaction where people try to "win" something that is for the most part unwinnable.

Why do they do it? Because its fun and entertaining to do so.

Recommend the OP figure out why he or she continues to participate in something that is an obvious irritant to them, and leave the forums to the rest of us who enjoy a good scrap now and then.

STO didn't turn out the way many wanted to see it done, glad to hear some folks enjoy it, but it makes it pretty much open season on Cryptic and the game as it was implemented.

someforumguy · February 2010

Originally posted by brihtwulf

It's so irritating to hear the number of people who say stupid things like:
- This isn't how I would have made the game.
- This isn't how I wanted/expected it to be.
- This game is too "casual"-focused.
- This game is boring.
1. I'm guessing that maybe 0.0001% of the members on this forum actually have the ability or talent to create a game, especially an MMO. You didn't make the game, so stop the ridiculous comments about how YOU would have done it "right".
2. Having expectations on what you "hope" a game will be is fine. We all see images and trailers and previews, and hope it will be just what we want. But if it's not, it isn't the developer's "fault". They didn't make the game just for YOU! If you don't like the way it has been made, then don't play it. If someone released Neverwinter Nights 3 and it wasn't the way you thought, I doubt the number of people would be on forums screaming about how they "didn't make it right".
3. They made the game casual-focused intentionally, and it's been obvious through the entire process. All the interviews indicated that this was not some sort of hardcore penalty-fest that only the most "uber" of players could conquer. There aren't 40-man raids, or open PvP everywhere. If you don't like the system, don't play it. They're not going to rework the entire game just for YOU.
4. Boringness is in the eye of the player. It's subjective. Some people enjoy reading the stories of the missions, the combination of ground and space combat, and the strategies they can employ in both. But again, if you think it's boring, then don't play it.
I don't have any pity for the people who pre-ordered the game, only to whine and quit after they got into the open beta. If you payed the entire value of the game to a non-refunding company, then that's YOUR fault. Could you have gone to any game store like Gamestop and pre-ordered, then cancelled and gotten all your money back? Yes. There's your lesson: don't buy something you're not completely sure about. Would you go online and buy a car you'd never seen before, and hadn't done your research on? It sounds pretty stupid, and doing it with anything else is just as dumb (only with a smaller monetary risk).
It's quite simple, some people like this game, and some people clearly do not. But quit being so self-centered and coming on these forums calling the game a "failure" because it's not exactly what YOU want. Get over yourselves, and go play some other game that was made exactly to your tastes.

What a load of BS. You dont need to be a developer to know what you like or not, or to expect certain features in a MMO because its about a certain well known ip.

I mean really, why do you post this? Is it that you cant handle the fact that other players have different opinions? Actually I think its more specific. I think you are just one of those people who gets insecure when really a lot of players start critisizing or bashing the game you like.

The last paragraph is funny. You call those people self-centered while you at the same time try to set up your own set of rules for what should be allowed as critizism about a game. The irony.

I will always pick on any MMO(company) that fails to deliver something that is competitive. Or that makes the same mistakes as in the past were made. Especially if players start defending this private (!) company for its mistakes. Which sets the MMO industry really apart from the rest of commercial business. Somehow the MMO companies get away with the same mistakes over and over, because they have these dedicated followers who will spread the ' truth' lol. I find this quite unsettling sometimes.

Xondar123 · February 2010

Originally posted by brihtwulf

It's so irritating to hear the number of people who say stupid things like:
- This isn't how I would have made the game.
- This isn't how I wanted/expected it to be.
- This game is too "casual"-focused.
- This game is boring.
1. I'm guessing that maybe 0.0001% of the members on this forum actually have the ability or talent to create a game, especially an MMO. You didn't make the game, so stop the ridiculous comments about how YOU would have done it "right".
Can we stop using this fallacy right off the bat? Film critics aren't filmmakers. To criticize a game you do not have to be able to make games. Anyone can write a review of STO and share their thoughts and opinions on the game. If their review is well thought out, then they may very well be right.

I submit that anyone who uses this fallacy simply has no way to defend their game properly. Saying "you can't do better" is admitting their game has flaws that can be defended.
2. Having expectations on what you "hope" a game will be is fine. We all see images and trailers and previews, and hope it will be just what we want. But if it's not, it isn't the developer's "fault". They didn't make the game just for YOU! If you don't like the way it has been made, then don't play it. If someone released Neverwinter Nights 3 and it wasn't the way you thought, I doubt the number of people would be on forums screaming about how they "didn't make it right".
No, developers shouldn't make a game "just for YOU," however they should have made this game for, you know, Star Trek fans. Not only that, but have you considered that there is a reason the same criticisms of the game are making the rounds? Maybe it's because the game is simply deficient in the areas everyone is criticizing?

Just because people say "I don't like the missions," or "I don't like the sector map." Doesn't mean that people want a game made to appeal only to them.

Also, did you step in a time warp from six months ago? After the game was released people generally stopped with the "this is how I would have wanted STO" posts and threads and started with the "this is specifically what's wrong with the game" posts and threads. Specific criticisms are not a case of someone saying "this is how I want the game to be," rather they are more of "this is what can be improved in the game."
3. They made the game casual-focused intentionally, and it's been obvious through the entire process. All the interviews indicated that this was not some sort of hardcore penalty-fest that only the most "uber" of players could conquer. There aren't 40-man raids, or open PvP everywhere. If you don't like the system, don't play it. They're not going to rework the entire game just for YOU.
"Casual friendly" does not mean "shallow" and "limited." One of the most casual friendly MMOs to ever come along was World of Warcraft, and yet people in WoW could still explore the world of Azeroth far, far more than people in Star Trek Online can explore the galaxy. This isn't an indicator of being "casual friendly," it's an indicator of a dev team that couldn't be bothered to flesh out the universe they were creating, or simply not given enough time to do so.
4. Boringness is in the eye of the player. It's subjective. Some people enjoy reading the stories of the missions, the combination of ground and space combat, and the strategies they can employ in both. But again, if you think it's boring, then don't play it.
No, "boringness" is not always subjective. It can be in some cases, but in others it can genuinely said that something is objectively "boring."

This charge is often levelled at STO not because people think the things you listed are boring, but because what you listed is all you can do in the game. Most MMOs have stuff that doesn't involve missions or combat that people can do when they get burnt out on doing missions and combat. STO's exploration system is a joke, crafting is a joke, the market is a joke. There is really nothing very fun to do in the game outside of missions and combat. And most people think that's boring.
I don't have any pity for the people who pre-ordered the game, only to whine and quit after they got into the open beta. If you payed the entire value of the game to a non-refunding company, then that's YOUR fault. Could you have gone to any game store like Gamestop and pre-ordered, then cancelled and gotten all your money back? Yes. There's your lesson: don't buy something you're not completely sure about. Would you go online and buy a car you'd never seen before, and hadn't done your research on? It sounds pretty stupid, and doing it with anything else is just as dumb (only with a smaller monetary risk).
It's quite simple, some people like this game, and some people clearly do not. But quit being so self-centered and coming on these forums calling the game a "failure" because it's not exactly what YOU want. Get over yourselves, and go play some other game that was made exactly to your tastes.

All you've done is set up straw men. These defences of the game aren't at all related to any of the real criticisms levelled at STO. Since the game's release, there have been many strong arguments made as to why this game is average at best, really bad at worst.

Instead of attacking straw men, why don't you read a few of the reviews posted in this forum and actually responding to real criticisms made by people who have played the game. Here are a few reviews so you know what I'm talking about:

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268886/My-Review.html

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268609/Issues-with-the-game-from-a-nonMMO-player-perspective.html

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268145/3-days-in-and-i-am-bored-This-game-is-not-worth-of-a-subscription.html

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268551/STO-Euro-Gamer-Review.html

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268681/My-Review-of-STO.html

For your reading pleasure and further education: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Wizardry · February 2010

I will have to admit the OP is 100% correct.However i also have to ask if you think Cryptic made the game for any reason other than to create a money grab from TREKKY fans?

I am one those smart people [sorry to say] and i believe the latter,the game is not that complete.However i will also admit it is not overly bad either but i saw lots of areas that smell of SUPER lazy and super cheap on design.I also admit i have seen far worse games than STO FAR worse,but imo it does not qualify as a AAA title or effort,it is more a AA title.

I will also admit it is a far more aggressive effort than what i saw of CO,witch is embarrassing to think anyone is paying to play that poor quality effort.I live by different standards than most,i expect a developer to SELL me the product,i do not like to feel i am in charity mode for half ass effort.

Then i break a game down and decide if it offers anything better than what i already play?

Better graphics?nope

better combat?nope

better content ?nope

better animations?nope

that is too many nopes,i cannot play it nor do i deem it worthy of getting any single player qualities out of it.hence why it is a AA effort.

buegur · February 2010

Lol, I pity the person who comes on these boards looking for honest reviews of whatever game is posted here (at least MMO's). Unfortunately we have here the most bitter/jaded of the MMO players, who honestly been burnt or tired of the MMO fare for quite a while. Add to this the people who "wanted the entire Star Trek experience" (even though that differs from person to person), and you have expectations that couldn't be fulfilled by any company no matter how hard they tried. so you instead end up with people evaluating a game not on its merit, but what they thought it should be. You have a better chance winning a lotto than getting a truthful unbiased game review from this crowd! Best advice i could give to people looking to play a game by getting information here, is take everything with a large grain of salt and dissect everything to see what bias the writter has. Only than with a lot of luck can you get anything remotely useful from this site in my opinion. Other than that take the many offical reviews which usually give generics and determine if that type of game play works for you. The only thing better is try it out on a trail bases yourself, of course you might have to wait some time for that. I would recommend never buying a new MMO if your bothered by bugs, unfinished content, polish and the fact that the game will change significantly in the first year of its existence!

grunt187 · February 2010

Originally posted by buegur

Lol, I pity the person who comes on these boards looking for honest reviews of whatever game is posted here (at least MMO's). Unfortunately we have here the most bitter/jaded of the MMO players, who honestly been burnt or tired of the MMO fare for quite a while. Add to this the people who "wanted the entire Star Trek experience" (even though that differs from person to person), and you have expectations that couldn't be fulfilled by any company no matter how hard they tried. so you instead end up with people evaluating a game not on its merit, but what they thought it should be. You have a better chance winning a lotto than getting a truthful unbiased game review from this crowd! Best advice i could give to people looking to play a game by getting information here, is take everything with a large grain of salt and dissect everything to see what bias the writter has. Only than with a lot of luck can you get anything remotely useful from this site in my opinion. Other than that take the many offical reviews which usually give generics and determine if that type of game play works for you. The only thing better is try it out on a trail bases yourself, of course you might have to wait some time for that. I would recommend never buying a new MMO if your bothered by bugs, unfinished content, polish and the fact that the game will change significantly in the first year of its existence!

This!

buegur · February 2010

Wizardry you left out the one thing that trumps all those other areas...Is it fun to play? We disagree on your other points and thats fine as we all see things different, but as I see the game as fun so even if those other areas were inferior ( and I don't) I would still play the game.

Gdemami · February 2010

Originally posted by Xondar123

All you've done is set up straw men. These defences of the game aren't at all related to any of the real criticisms levelled at STO. Since the game's release, there have been many strong arguments made as to why this game is average at best, really bad at worst.
Instead of attacking straw men, why don't you read a few of the reviews posted in this forum and actually responding to real criticisms made by people who have played the game. Here are a few reviews so you know what I'm talking about:
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268886/My-Review.html
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268609/Issues-with-the-game-from-a-nonMMO-player-perspective.html
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268145/3-days-in-and-i-am-bored-This-game-is-not-worth-of-a-subscription.html
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268551/STO-Euro-Gamer-Review.html
www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268681/My-Review-of-STO.html

For your reading pleasure and further education: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Oh..so without any requirements on content of my article, I can call it a review?

'STO is nothing live EVE Online!'

Did you like my review?

Opinion =/= review

Xondar123 · February 2010

Originally posted by Gdemami

Originally posted by Xondar123

All you've done is set up straw men. These defences of the game aren't at all related to any of the real criticisms levelled at STO. Since the game's release, there have been many strong arguments made as to why this game is average at best, really bad at worst.

Instead of attacking straw men, why don't you read a few of the reviews posted in this forum and actually responding to real criticisms made by people who have played the game. Here are a few reviews so you know what I'm talking about:

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268886/My-Review.html

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268609/Issues-with-the-game-from-a-nonMMO-player-perspective.html

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268145/3-days-in-and-i-am-bored-This-game-is-not-worth-of-a-subscription.html

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268551/STO-Euro-Gamer-Review.html

www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/352/view/forums/thread/268681/My-Review-of-STO.html

For your reading pleasure and further education: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Oh..so without any requirements on content of my article, I can call it a review?

'STO is nothing live EVE Online!'

Did you like my review?

Opinion =/= review

For reviews to be considered "reviews" they need some requirements on content now? Since when? Roger Ebert has posted single line film reviews in the past, are they not reviews because they don't meet some content standards?

Anyone who "reviews" the game and then writes something about their experiences and what they thought of it is writing a "review" of the game. Reviews, at their core, do indeed express opinions. So review = opinion. The opinion of the reviewer is what you're getting when you read a review.

I also don't see how that invalidates my point that the OP set up straw men and never once addressed the real criticisms to the game.

ste2000 · February 2010

Originally posted by brihtwulf

Originally posted by Robokapp

I don't see the issue here. those who don't like it say so, vote so and rank so. those who do, vote rank and comment positively. The overall results are what the entire participating community averages at. Isn't that the point of voting and reviewing/discussing a game?

The problem with most of the people posting negative comments is that they either make up things about why the game is bad, or they just come on and say, "This game sucks!" without any explanation or reason.

I think you are generalising, and by doing so, you are losing any credibility and become a troll too like the ones you are criticising.

Karahandras · February 2010

they really need a 'my precious' emote on this site

despite what you fanboys think not everyone has to like a game you are playing, they are allowed to say so and they don't need to write a 50 page essay to do so

TeknoBug · February 2010

Cryptic didn't really "make" this game.

masterbbb26 · February 2010

Originally posted by brihtwulf

It's so irritating to hear the number of people who say stupid things like:
- This isn't how I would have made the game.
- This isn't how I wanted/expected it to be.
- This game is too "casual"-focused.
- This game is boring.
1. I'm guessing that maybe 0.0001% of the members on this forum actually have the ability or talent to create a game, especially an MMO. You didn't make the game, so stop the ridiculous comments about how YOU would have done it "right".
2. Having expectations on what you "hope" a game will be is fine. We all see images and trailers and previews, and hope it will be just what we want. But if it's not, it isn't the developer's "fault". They didn't make the game just for YOU! If you don't like the way it has been made, then don't play it. If someone released Neverwinter Nights 3 and it wasn't the way you thought, I doubt the number of people would be on forums screaming about how they "didn't make it right".
3. They made the game casual-focused intentionally, and it's been obvious through the entire process. All the interviews indicated that this was not some sort of hardcore penalty-fest that only the most "uber" of players could conquer. There aren't 40-man raids, or open PvP everywhere. If you don't like the system, don't play it. They're not going to rework the entire game just for YOU.
4. Boringness is in the eye of the player. It's subjective. Some people enjoy reading the stories of the missions, the combination of ground and space combat, and the strategies they can employ in both. But again, if you think it's boring, then don't play it.
I don't have any pity for the people who pre-ordered the game, only to whine and quit after they got into the open beta. If you payed the entire value of the game to a non-refunding company, then that's YOUR fault. Could you have gone to any game store like Gamestop and pre-ordered, then cancelled and gotten all your money back? Yes. There's your lesson: don't buy something you're not completely sure about. Would you go online and buy a car you'd never seen before, and hadn't done your research on? It sounds pretty stupid, and doing it with anything else is just as dumb (only with a smaller monetary risk).
It's quite simple, some people like this game, and some people clearly do not. But quit being so self-centered and coming on these forums calling the game a "failure" because it's not exactly what YOU want. Get over yourselves, and go play some other game that was made exactly to your tastes.

Are you oblivious to what a forum is and what a customer is???? Seriously get a grip on reality. As long as people give reasons why they dont like a game I welcome their forum posts. I can extrapolate their reasons for not liking a game to see if i want to wait for a free trial or not.

onetruth · February 2010

Originally posted by Xondar123

No, developers shouldn't make a game "just for YOU," however they should have made this game for, you know, Star Trek fans. Not only that, but have you considered that there is a reason the same criticisms of the game are making the rounds? Maybe it's because the game is simply deficient in the areas everyone is criticizing?

Lol, well said, and pretty much /thread.

However, since the OP is looking for a flame war, I'll bite.

If it's such a great game and you're having fun with it, why are you bothering to check out these forums? A few days ago I came off a two-week bender of playing Mass Effect 2 pretty much non-stop. Absolutely adored the game, and there was no way in hell I would have wasted a minute of time that I could have been playing it going to forums to see what other people thought of it.

I think you're just looking for a fight because you're also bored with the game.

Zippy · February 2010

Nice try but Cryptic did not make this game for anyone except themselves. They made it for short term box sales not for the long term. They have adopted the AoC MMO formula of make a low quality game that people will quit quickly and hype the heck out of it hoping to make all their cash on the front end. Rather than taking the normal 4-5 years to develop a quality game where their return is based on long term subs they have taken the easy and cheap way by releasing an unfinished game (after only 1.5 yrs of development time and money) with no content and simplistic vanilla mechanics in hopes of cashing in on short term box sales. Given their short development cycle and limited investment this recipe is almost a sure way to make money. But it depends on the stupidity of the consumer hoping he is willing to pay for untested garbage. Fortunately for Cryptic this is something MMO players have never objected to and likely a lesson they will never learn.

Dinendae · February 2010

To the OP, I suggest you read your thread's title: Cryptic didn't make this game just for you. Stop being so self-absorbed. That applies to you as well. Now if you love STO, then great! Glad you like it and feel you're getting your money's worth. However, I do have to ask: If you like the game so much, shouldn't you be playing STO right now?

seruk · February 2010

I know this is going to sound like ... duh but since this thread is here, I have the urge to state it.

If the game is good, players will play it. If its bad, it will fail and it should. Players have expectations and just because you love the game for X reason doesn't make it an exception.

I don't know many people that base their decisions purely off ratings. Many times they look at the comments and like to read the good and the bad to know what they're getting into.

Papadam · February 2010

This forum is about discussing the pros and cons of different MMOs...

sadly there are very few pros and alot of cons when it comes to STO so thats why there is alot of negativity here.

Did we really neeed another "DONT HATE STO" thread here?

mrroboto40 · February 2010

Anyone defending Cryptic deserves to be shot at point blank. With what "weapon" I dare not say...

grandpagamer · February 2010

OP is correct. Some people feel the need to piss and moan relentlessly when they do not like a game. Discussion is one thing but the constant flaming gets old. My guess is that people really wanted to like this game and when it didnt live up to their expectations feel the need to rant. Get over it, if you dont like STO find a different game. If you preordered and or purchased a lifetime sub then get over that too and think before spending.

Howdy, Stranger!

Cryptic didn't make this game just for you. Stop being so self-absorbed.

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Cryptic didn't make this game just for you. Stop being so self-absorbed.

Comments

Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV