nVidia were the greatest when the 8800 was released, it destroyed anything else (in my opinion). That card anhilated the opposition stomped on its corpse and t-bagged them ... but that was more than three years ago.
I used nVidia back then, they were good cards and generally had less issues (for me). I owned more than one 8000 nVidia and always bought nVidia after some poor experiences with ATI cards (maybe my fault I don't know). Well it's 2010 now and I have an ATI 5770, no techincal issues, excellent pricing, fabulous features and is comparable to a GTX 260 in benchmarks. Not bad for a budget card I'd say?
The fact is that this is 2010, in those 3 years since nVidia was pissing on the corpse of ATI and laughing alot has changed. nVidia got lazy or over confident. They released rebranded cards and spent cash in the wrong places. ATI was bought by AMD and they knuckled down and spent their time and money in the right places. They worked on pulling their own coup just as nVidia had done with the 8000 series, whilst nVidia sat around patting their own backs.
Today ATI has just torn nVidia a new arsehole, they have pulled their coup with the 5000 series. I waited on buying a new card until these released, I was getting Windows 7 and wanted a card that could take advantage of any DX11 features coming in the future. The 5000 series has it all, best price, best performance, best tech, best features, best power efficency it's just better than anything else and nVidia are left standing in the dust holding their dicks in their hands telling me that DX11 and eyefinity is a gimmick but PhysX and 3d glasses rock?
Fermi? Spare me! This is the counter attack nVidia are planning? Can anyone say "Charge of the light brigade"? I read up on it and it all looks sub standard crap, something even the North Korean military would turn down! nVidia screwed themselves by spending those golden years when they had ATI under siege just congratulating themselves and blowing money bribing developers instead of on R&D. They've made their bed and now have to lay in it, perhaps it's the kick up the arse they need at nVidia?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
I love HIS. Solid company with reliable performance. I have an old Radeon HD 2600XT IceQ Turbo 512MB. It was an OC'd edition clocked at 2200MHz.. Lately though everything has been lagging. I know it's outdated but it should run WoW just fine. I think my CPU may be holding it back. I have an old Pentium D Smithfield 820 2.8GHz. Anyways. I'm either gonna go with HIS or XFX since they're well established and that XFX offers that nice Double Lifetime guarantee. Plus right now both companies have really great 5k series cards for decent price points. I won't lie. I love ATI. But if it came to a point where I was on the market for a new card and Nvidia was easily pulling ahead on performance, price and reliability, then the choice would be obvious. But ATI never seems to let me down so for now I guess I won't have to resort to that.
Getting too old for this $&17!
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Simple put, next month IF nvidia release they will hold the performance crown. This has got the ATI guys a bit hot under the collar.
Happy to have waited it out. Not like I have DX11 games to play that I like the look of is it.
Simple put, next month IF nvidia release they will hold the performance crown. This has got the ATI guys a bit hot under the collar. Happy to have waited it out. Not like I have DX11 games to play that I like the look of is it.
Ehhhh wrong! Even if they release they will still be 1 generation behind hardware wise, just because they would support DX 11 does not mean the specs behind the support would be good.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
Simple put, next month IF nvidia release they will hold the performance crown. This has got the ATI guys a bit hot under the collar. Happy to have waited it out. Not like I have DX11 games to play that I like the look of is it.
I'd doubt that a single GPU GTX 380 could overtake a dual-GPU Radeon HD 5970... And since ATI got out their cards first I think nvidia will lose to ATI in 2010.
GF100 Tesselation performance is a little misleading or at least misunderstood, because it comes at a cost. Since there are no fixed function units in fermi, tesselation will always steal cycles from the shaders in its polymorph engine (just an SM with some extra logic). The upside is that it's flexible. The downside is the more you crank up tesselation, the less cycles you have for shaders.
ATI went a different direction with a single small dedicated tesselator. On ATI cards, tesselation doesn't take up any shader cycles the way Nvidia's solution will. The 5000 series will not be able to match GF100's tesselation performance on tesselation alone, but it won't cost any shader cycles either.
So Nvidia can crank out as many synthetic tesselation benchmarks they want, and while true, real world tesselation performance won't be nearly as impressive. Yeah, it's a 60% performance increase, but it's also a 60% bigger chip, sizing in at an estimated 530mm^2 and focusing entirely on tesselation in those benchmarks. How Nvidia plans to be profitable with a die that size I have no idea, especially with the yields its getting. Or control it's power requirements and heat generation.
Anyway, to address the OPs more specific point, that 2010 is an ATI year, I will have to agree. Nvidia's future doesn't look so bright. They've engineered themselves into a corner with no way to go but down.
Meanwhile ATI is sitting on a small, efficient and profitable evergreen chip that they can easily engineer up, meaning they will be able to lower prices when GF100 hits. Going into the 2nd half of 2010, AMD has the option of upping the evergreen line, or introducing its own true next generation chip it's been working on called Northern Islands. Either way, ATI is at least a year ahead of Nvidia at this point.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by spyder2k5
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Simple put, next month IF nvidia release they will hold the performance crown. This has got the ATI guys a bit hot under the collar. Happy to have waited it out. Not like I have DX11 games to play that I like the look of is it.
Ehhhh wrong! Even if they release they will still be 1 generation behind hardware wise, just because they would support DX 11 does not mean the specs behind the support would be good.
right.... so how are you basing generation? because I rememeber ATi being 6 months late with DX10 cards this time around same thing but the other way and even when ATI came out they still didn't beat Nvidia with 8000 series in most things.
You are assuming that the cards are equal in generational scope from both companies. FYI a generation is not 6 months. right now for sale is one gen behind. What will come out if you think that is one gen behind ATI and it beats it, I'd be worried.
When, and most likely next month, Nvidia releases their latest then we can compare to ATI on equal generations single to single and eventually dual to dual GPU's.
The next jump will be to 28nm as TMSC has cancelled 32nm so how long you think that will be? What will there be around in all that time. King of performance for me, and I am betting that is Nvda. We shall see though.
For some people it is about price, for others it is about performance. I have 2x285 and also a 4870x2 in another machine. I buy for performance and not to bothered about price.
Your right about the support for DX11, I mean there are just a handfull of games now so we do not know for sure how things stack up. I mean the games I play (+companies) have always statistically played better with Nvidia. If the new cards are worth it and I buy them at least I have things like support for CUDA, Phyx, 32x anti-aliasing mode, 100% of the hardware decode required for Blu-ray 3D playback, etc to play with.
I get the people that have brought ATI recently, they have to keep the faith, and as the time gets nearer people get antsy because of previous investment worries. I have always maintained that I'd rather see what is on offer from both companies before making an informed decision.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Little11
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Simple put, next month IF nvidia release they will hold the performance crown. This has got the ATI guys a bit hot under the collar. Happy to have waited it out. Not like I have DX11 games to play that I like the look of is it.
I'd doubt that a single GPU GTX 380 could overtake a dual-GPU Radeon HD 5970... And since ATI got out their cards first I think nvidia will lose to ATI in 2010.
Well for a start it is a single GTX 480 top of the range single GPU, the 300 series branding will be for DX10.1.
But it is not really fair to compare a dual card to a single one is it. So I doubt that too.
I'd be happy for a wait if single best on single best Nvidia has a 20% margin more or less.
You realise that for example new egg has consistantly been out of stock on the 5970 and for the longest time no one had any 5870's. Novemeber and December went buy and not one from any retailer here in Canada have I ever seen a 5970 in stock apart from launch week.
Market share is still 2/3rd Nvidia, that is pretty big lead.
Performance wise Nvidia will probably be king of the hill for 2010. Even if the 5970 beats a 480, Nvidia has a dual chip coming as well. Also what is the GF104 going to be used for? The GF100 is used in the 470 and 480 so where will the GF104 fit into this. That leaves Nvidia with an Ace in the hole. The ATI refresh this year will gain them some performance but I don't see them gaining enough to compete with the new Nvidia cards.
Now price wise ATI won't be beat. Their chips obviously cost less to make so they can go lower than Nvidia can.
The third category is drivers and Nvidia has always beat ATI in that field. I highly doubt that this year will be any different. I know the ATI drivers/cards have issues with Bad Company 2 so that doesn't put them off to a good start.
ATI drivers have always been junk or at least a long time now, I have been playing mmos for a long time and always the same; problems with ati drivers or feature implementation late in drivers and when it comes out it's buggier than life itself.
Granted my Nvidia 295GTX broke down this year but it's the first one ever for me.
Going to upgrade to Geforce 480 this year from 295GTX I believe, if I could trial an ATI card I would but I will keep on using Nvidia until I get the same bad experience I had with ATI cards.
right.... so how are you basing generation? because I rememeber ATi being 6 months late with DX10 cards this time around same thing but the other way and even when ATI came out they still didn't beat Nvidia with 8000 series in most things.
I get the people that have brought ATI recently, they have to keep the faith, and as the time gets nearer people get antsy because of previous investment worries. I have always maintained that I'd rather see what is on offer from both companies before making an informed decision.
1st point, Sorry, research the hardware, check how nVidia has bottlenecks and refuses to do anything about it. The hardware is weaker, and then is a bottleneck of itself. 2nd point, really? So this is why you are biased. You think people that just bought ATi are supporting it because of the fact they just bought ATi. I been buying ATi for years, used nVidia as well, nVidias drivers and hardware is second rate. And unless they work hard to get out of the rut, they will remain as such.
Hardware is better with ATi and cheaper, not to mention the drivers are updated monthly, and contain great fixes and performance increase.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
For years i had nvidia, but becouse im not blind fan of something i gave ati a chance with new release of 5000 series.
And i must say its a great card 5870 it performs extremely well driver wise np at all.
But for dx11 whole campaing was bullshit, becouse most games still are core dx9.0c and so called dx11 games have very limited dx11 featers plus most are not even well known or wide spread games.
In 2010 you still dont need dx11 card and ATI done a bad job of doing more by advertisment to be more known as the real gaming card.
Majority still hangs on there old nvidia and just wait for next series and almost none buy ATI, new games most of them still have nvidia LOGO while no ATI RADEON spotted on new game boxes.
AMD still doing it all wrong they have a lead when it comes to graficscards and there very very good cards but customer DONT KNOW IT and dont buy them.
I think nvidia takes over graficscard top charts soon when 300 series is released and massively gamers will buy nividia, ATI again bite the dust, while they could have done so much better with there new dx11 cards.
Ah well i stick to my card 5870 for while, becouse games released these days and developed are far behind and still all dx9.0c so no need chance this superb card for a while.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
right.... so how are you basing generation? because I rememeber ATi being 6 months late with DX10 cards this time around same thing but the other way and even when ATI came out they still didn't beat Nvidia with 8000 series in most things.
I get the people that have brought ATI recently, they have to keep the faith, and as the time gets nearer people get antsy because of previous investment worries. I have always maintained that I'd rather see what is on offer from both companies before making an informed decision.
1st point, Sorry, research the hardware, check how nVidia has bottlenecks and refuses to do anything about it. The hardware is weaker, and then is a bottleneck of itself.
2nd point, really? So this is why you are biased. You think people that just bought ATi are supporting it because of the fact they just bought ATi. I been buying ATi for years, used nVidia as well, nVidias drivers and hardware is second rate. And unless they work hard to get out of the rut, they will remain as such.
Hardware is better with ATi and cheaper, not to mention the drivers are updated monthly, and contain great fixes and performance increase.
Why you lie about all of this you get money from amd lol, total bullshit you your reply.
And dont come with im nividia fan i got an ati 5870.
Nvidia comes far more regualry with drivers then ATI and there support how to get drivers or to overclock tweak and so on with there center is with nvidia far better then with ati.
But i agree on hardware its better now with 5000 series but with almost no advertisment and support for games im affraid ATI will stay second rate behind nvidia even when there cards are better lol.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Lol its good card yes and it beat benchmarks sure, but there is no use for this card right now, its way to powerfull for todays hardware and games.
Most games released in last 6months are still xp dx9.0c releated.And future games 90% still dx9.0c.
Btw ANANDTECH or GURU3D are far better benchmark review sites.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I've been building my own pc's for the last 15 years
And now I advise/build for about 20 people mostly gamers used to be pure amd/ati builds until the core2 processors came out then everyone I know shifted to Intel, it was quite painful to redo 5 house pc's lol but worth it.
I always favoured ATI up until the 2900, at that point ATI seemed to be more interested in benchmarks and beating there competition than customer service, When I redid the house pc's the 3870x2's had just come out so I built some 2 games machines DFI boards X38's intel q6600 an X2 for mine and crossfire 3870's for wifes pc.
Straight away the system both systems were unstable, I did all the normal things drivers, memory swaps etc.
Turns out the 3870 wasn't 100% compatible with the x38 chipset and ATI knew it, well I soldiered on hoping for a firmware update etc until six months into the life of the cards my 3870x2 died and one of my wifes 3870's (no overclocking)
I switched to Nvidia bought 2 8800 GTS's and never looked back, stable and fast, now our main games pc's have the GTX 260's in them and they are as good as I could want.
At the same time every six months I build a couple test pc (this gets sold to friend at cost of parts) this is what I call a test bed I buy the latest and greatest to see if things change.
My conclusion is this
Built a nice pc around the AMD Phen X4 965 best parts and even though its a nice cpu, my q6600 overclocked stable to 3.8 and the amd overclocked to its highest stable speed my old q6600 beats amd's newest flagship so I still can't recommend AMD.
For the last 12 months i've picked pu the latest and greatest AMD has to offer including a very recent 5970 and yes they are faster than my 260 but I still can't recommend them to anyone who wants a stable games machine, I experienced much the same as the below link
grey/brown lines etc, amd is trying to whitewash saying its a win7 issue but if thats so why when I tested and others test with xp etc we get the same effect.
It seems to me ATI/AMD is rushing out incomplete/bugged products with drivers focused more on fast benchmarks than game stability
There is two major problems with the current crop of amd cards
1)they seem to have issues either hardware or software 2d acceleration 2d acc is more important these days with aero etc
Now I pride myself on building pc's for my friends and every pc I put together I do not for money (I only charge cost of parts) and sadly even though I used to love AMD products I can't recommend them to anyone.
I personally choose nvidia everytime they may lose out slightly on performance but hell whats a few frames at 200 FPS but what they do offer is excellent drivers that have never once caused me a issue.
It seems to me ATI/AMD is rushing out incomplete/bugged products with drivers focused more on fast benchmarks than game stability
Tom's Hardware is known to be biased towards nVidia, sorry please find a non biased site that it not paid by nVidia to review things.
ATis hardware is not only more powerful, but their drivers are more optimized, and work tons better. You can do much more with them then the crap nVidia spews out and calls drivers. Learn to work the panel and advanced settings. I have been running dual 3870s for over a year now(have a 2900XT in my old system this is a new system built ground up to be a powerhouse.) and it would easily beat any two nVidia cards combined. Why? Because their hardware is not as powerful, and is further reduced into retardation by bottlenecking itself, which then gets passed to their buggy drivers that get worse each build. That is why most people that use them and know what they are doing stick with older nVidia drivers because of the issue the newer ones have constantly. ATi drivers don't do that, they get better and better.
I don't care how long you say, or have been building computers, if you don't know the fundamentals it means nothing, anyone can build a computer it is easy, but to understand the connection between hardware and make sure they are fully compatible and don't bottleneck themselves and each other is totally separate.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
nVidias not yet released chip is too big and expensive to produce i.e. their next cards will cost $499-$599 and that means that they will not sell many of them.
I mean 500 to 600 buckaroos for a graphics card?
Give me a break!
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
The reason why more games aren't running DX 10 is because Vista wasn't embraced by gamers, we mostly stuck with XP. I know I did because when vista came out I was running a P4 with 1 gig of ram and a X800. I beta tested it and I had to turn off all the eye candy just to make it run decent.
If gamers start embracing win7 we will start seeing more games in DX 11 no doubt. I got a new system about a year ago. e8400, 4 gigs of ram and a 4850 and I was going to get vista then but I heard about Win7 and held off and just got it for Christmas. I love it so far all my games are running great.
Everyone has their good and bad experiences with cards, personally I never had any problems with ATI. I had my x800 OC for 2 years and It was still running strong before I built my new computer. I Never had any problem with Nvidia either but, IDK I've always just liked ATI better for some reason.
What I find funny about Toms Hardware is when they release a card its bad for ATI. For instance the HD4770 when it was released and reviewed by Toms it was worse then a 9800GTX+. However, when they use the cards in a subsequent review they don't bother fudging the data. When ATI released the HD5670, they used both cards again in benchmarks and the HD4770 performed 10% above the 9800GTX+.
AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Originally posted by Mellow44
nVidias not yet released chip is too big and expensive to produce i.e. their next cards will cost $499-$599 and that means that they will not sell many of them. I mean 500 to 600 buckaroos for a graphics card? Give me a break!
Here in Canada a 5870 is $460 ish and when short supply up to just under $500. The 5970 can reach $700 Canadian.
Comments
nVidia were the greatest when the 8800 was released, it destroyed anything else (in my opinion). That card anhilated the opposition stomped on its corpse and t-bagged them ... but that was more than three years ago.
I used nVidia back then, they were good cards and generally had less issues (for me). I owned more than one 8000 nVidia and always bought nVidia after some poor experiences with ATI cards (maybe my fault I don't know). Well it's 2010 now and I have an ATI 5770, no techincal issues, excellent pricing, fabulous features and is comparable to a GTX 260 in benchmarks. Not bad for a budget card I'd say?
The fact is that this is 2010, in those 3 years since nVidia was pissing on the corpse of ATI and laughing alot has changed. nVidia got lazy or over confident. They released rebranded cards and spent cash in the wrong places. ATI was bought by AMD and they knuckled down and spent their time and money in the right places. They worked on pulling their own coup just as nVidia had done with the 8000 series, whilst nVidia sat around patting their own backs.
Today ATI has just torn nVidia a new arsehole, they have pulled their coup with the 5000 series. I waited on buying a new card until these released, I was getting Windows 7 and wanted a card that could take advantage of any DX11 features coming in the future. The 5000 series has it all, best price, best performance, best tech, best features, best power efficency it's just better than anything else and nVidia are left standing in the dust holding their dicks in their hands telling me that DX11 and eyefinity is a gimmick but PhysX and 3d glasses rock?
Fermi? Spare me! This is the counter attack nVidia are planning? Can anyone say "Charge of the light brigade"? I read up on it and it all looks sub standard crap, something even the North Korean military would turn down! nVidia screwed themselves by spending those golden years when they had ATI under siege just congratulating themselves and blowing money bribing developers instead of on R&D. They've made their bed and now have to lay in it, perhaps it's the kick up the arse they need at nVidia?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
I love HIS. Solid company with reliable performance. I have an old Radeon HD 2600XT IceQ Turbo 512MB. It was an OC'd edition clocked at 2200MHz.. Lately though everything has been lagging. I know it's outdated but it should run WoW just fine. I think my CPU may be holding it back. I have an old Pentium D Smithfield 820 2.8GHz. Anyways. I'm either gonna go with HIS or XFX since they're well established and that XFX offers that nice Double Lifetime guarantee. Plus right now both companies have really great 5k series cards for decent price points. I won't lie. I love ATI. But if it came to a point where I was on the market for a new card and Nvidia was easily pulling ahead on performance, price and reliability, then the choice would be obvious. But ATI never seems to let me down so for now I guess I won't have to resort to that.
Getting too old for this $&17!
Simple put, next month IF nvidia release they will hold the performance crown. This has got the ATI guys a bit hot under the collar.
Happy to have waited it out. Not like I have DX11 games to play that I like the look of is it.
Ehhhh wrong! Even if they release they will still be 1 generation behind hardware wise, just because they would support DX 11 does not mean the specs behind the support would be good.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
Agreed. And that doesn't even include the upcoming 5900's and 6000 series.
Getting too old for this $&17!
I'd doubt that a single GPU GTX 380 could overtake a dual-GPU Radeon HD 5970... And since ATI got out their cards first I think nvidia will lose to ATI in 2010.
GF100 Tesselation performance is a little misleading or at least misunderstood, because it comes at a cost. Since there are no fixed function units in fermi, tesselation will always steal cycles from the shaders in its polymorph engine (just an SM with some extra logic). The upside is that it's flexible. The downside is the more you crank up tesselation, the less cycles you have for shaders.
ATI went a different direction with a single small dedicated tesselator. On ATI cards, tesselation doesn't take up any shader cycles the way Nvidia's solution will. The 5000 series will not be able to match GF100's tesselation performance on tesselation alone, but it won't cost any shader cycles either.
So Nvidia can crank out as many synthetic tesselation benchmarks they want, and while true, real world tesselation performance won't be nearly as impressive. Yeah, it's a 60% performance increase, but it's also a 60% bigger chip, sizing in at an estimated 530mm^2 and focusing entirely on tesselation in those benchmarks. How Nvidia plans to be profitable with a die that size I have no idea, especially with the yields its getting. Or control it's power requirements and heat generation.
Anyway, to address the OPs more specific point, that 2010 is an ATI year, I will have to agree. Nvidia's future doesn't look so bright. They've engineered themselves into a corner with no way to go but down.
Meanwhile ATI is sitting on a small, efficient and profitable evergreen chip that they can easily engineer up, meaning they will be able to lower prices when GF100 hits. Going into the 2nd half of 2010, AMD has the option of upping the evergreen line, or introducing its own true next generation chip it's been working on called Northern Islands. Either way, ATI is at least a year ahead of Nvidia at this point.
Ehhhh wrong! Even if they release they will still be 1 generation behind hardware wise, just because they would support DX 11 does not mean the specs behind the support would be good.
right.... so how are you basing generation? because I rememeber ATi being 6 months late with DX10 cards this time around same thing but the other way and even when ATI came out they still didn't beat Nvidia with 8000 series in most things.
You are assuming that the cards are equal in generational scope from both companies. FYI a generation is not 6 months. right now for sale is one gen behind. What will come out if you think that is one gen behind ATI and it beats it, I'd be worried.
When, and most likely next month, Nvidia releases their latest then we can compare to ATI on equal generations single to single and eventually dual to dual GPU's.
The next jump will be to 28nm as TMSC has cancelled 32nm so how long you think that will be? What will there be around in all that time. King of performance for me, and I am betting that is Nvda. We shall see though.
For some people it is about price, for others it is about performance. I have 2x285 and also a 4870x2 in another machine. I buy for performance and not to bothered about price.
Your right about the support for DX11, I mean there are just a handfull of games now so we do not know for sure how things stack up. I mean the games I play (+companies) have always statistically played better with Nvidia. If the new cards are worth it and I buy them at least I have things like support for CUDA, Phyx, 32x anti-aliasing mode, 100% of the hardware decode required for Blu-ray 3D playback, etc to play with.
I get the people that have brought ATI recently, they have to keep the faith, and as the time gets nearer people get antsy because of previous investment worries. I have always maintained that I'd rather see what is on offer from both companies before making an informed decision.
I'd doubt that a single GPU GTX 380 could overtake a dual-GPU Radeon HD 5970... And since ATI got out their cards first I think nvidia will lose to ATI in 2010.
Well for a start it is a single GTX 480 top of the range single GPU, the 300 series branding will be for DX10.1.
But it is not really fair to compare a dual card to a single one is it. So I doubt that too.
I'd be happy for a wait if single best on single best Nvidia has a 20% margin more or less.
You realise that for example new egg has consistantly been out of stock on the 5970 and for the longest time no one had any 5870's. Novemeber and December went buy and not one from any retailer here in Canada have I ever seen a 5970 in stock apart from launch week.
Market share is still 2/3rd Nvidia, that is pretty big lead.
Performance wise Nvidia will probably be king of the hill for 2010. Even if the 5970 beats a 480, Nvidia has a dual chip coming as well. Also what is the GF104 going to be used for? The GF100 is used in the 470 and 480 so where will the GF104 fit into this. That leaves Nvidia with an Ace in the hole. The ATI refresh this year will gain them some performance but I don't see them gaining enough to compete with the new Nvidia cards.
Now price wise ATI won't be beat. Their chips obviously cost less to make so they can go lower than Nvidia can.
The third category is drivers and Nvidia has always beat ATI in that field. I highly doubt that this year will be any different. I know the ATI drivers/cards have issues with Bad Company 2 so that doesn't put them off to a good start.
ATI drivers have always been junk or at least a long time now, I have been playing mmos for a long time and always the same; problems with ati drivers or feature implementation late in drivers and when it comes out it's buggier than life itself.
Granted my Nvidia 295GTX broke down this year but it's the first one ever for me.
Going to upgrade to Geforce 480 this year from 295GTX I believe, if I could trial an ATI card I would but I will keep on using Nvidia until I get the same bad experience I had with ATI cards.
1st point, Sorry, research the hardware, check how nVidia has bottlenecks and refuses to do anything about it. The hardware is weaker, and then is a bottleneck of itself.
2nd point, really? So this is why you are biased. You think people that just bought ATi are supporting it because of the fact they just bought ATi. I been buying ATi for years, used nVidia as well, nVidias drivers and hardware is second rate. And unless they work hard to get out of the rut, they will remain as such.
Hardware is better with ATi and cheaper, not to mention the drivers are updated monthly, and contain great fixes and performance increase.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
For years i had nvidia, but becouse im not blind fan of something i gave ati a chance with new release of 5000 series.
And i must say its a great card 5870 it performs extremely well driver wise np at all.
But for dx11 whole campaing was bullshit, becouse most games still are core dx9.0c and so called dx11 games have very limited dx11 featers plus most are not even well known or wide spread games.
In 2010 you still dont need dx11 card and ATI done a bad job of doing more by advertisment to be more known as the real gaming card.
Majority still hangs on there old nvidia and just wait for next series and almost none buy ATI, new games most of them still have nvidia LOGO while no ATI RADEON spotted on new game boxes.
AMD still doing it all wrong they have a lead when it comes to graficscards and there very very good cards but customer DONT KNOW IT and dont buy them.
I think nvidia takes over graficscard top charts soon when 300 series is released and massively gamers will buy nividia, ATI again bite the dust, while they could have done so much better with there new dx11 cards.
Ah well i stick to my card 5870 for while, becouse games released these days and developed are far behind and still all dx9.0c so no need chance this superb card for a while.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
use what u like guys as long as the video card runs the game good thats all it matters in my eyes
IN THE FACE!
www.hardocp.com/article/2009/11/18/amd_ati_radeon_hd_5970_video_card_review/8
Bottom line, absolutely great card - hardware wise.
Either bad game support or drivers, do your own math.
1st point, Sorry, research the hardware, check how nVidia has bottlenecks and refuses to do anything about it. The hardware is weaker, and then is a bottleneck of itself.
2nd point, really? So this is why you are biased. You think people that just bought ATi are supporting it because of the fact they just bought ATi. I been buying ATi for years, used nVidia as well, nVidias drivers and hardware is second rate. And unless they work hard to get out of the rut, they will remain as such.
Hardware is better with ATi and cheaper, not to mention the drivers are updated monthly, and contain great fixes and performance increase.
Why you lie about all of this you get money from amd lol, total bullshit you your reply.
And dont come with im nividia fan i got an ati 5870.
Nvidia comes far more regualry with drivers then ATI and there support how to get drivers or to overclock tweak and so on with there center is with nvidia far better then with ati.
But i agree on hardware its better now with 5000 series but with almost no advertisment and support for games im affraid ATI will stay second rate behind nvidia even when there cards are better lol.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Lol its good card yes and it beat benchmarks sure, but there is no use for this card right now, its way to powerfull for todays hardware and games.
Most games released in last 6months are still xp dx9.0c releated.And future games 90% still dx9.0c.
Btw ANANDTECH or GURU3D are far better benchmark review sites.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Lol its good card yes and it beat benchmarks sure, but there is no use for this card right now, its way to powerfull for todays hardware and games.
Most games released in last 6months are still xp dx9.0c releated.And future games 90% still dx9.0c.
Btw ANANDTECH or GURU3D are far better benchmark review sites.
I like the way Hardocp reviews, would love to link to their review principles explained but can't find it - found it very enlightening.
This one is quite interesting: www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality-update-3/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1680x1050,1699.html
Agree with you on the DX9, I think DX11 might be next thing though because of the performance boost.
I've been building my own pc's for the last 15 years
And now I advise/build for about 20 people mostly gamers used to be pure amd/ati builds until the core2 processors came out then everyone I know shifted to Intel, it was quite painful to redo 5 house pc's lol but worth it.
I always favoured ATI up until the 2900, at that point ATI seemed to be more interested in benchmarks and beating there competition than customer service, When I redid the house pc's the 3870x2's had just come out so I built some 2 games machines DFI boards X38's intel q6600 an X2 for mine and crossfire 3870's for wifes pc.
Straight away the system both systems were unstable, I did all the normal things drivers, memory swaps etc.
Turns out the 3870 wasn't 100% compatible with the x38 chipset and ATI knew it, well I soldiered on hoping for a firmware update etc until six months into the life of the cards my 3870x2 died and one of my wifes 3870's (no overclocking)
I switched to Nvidia bought 2 8800 GTS's and never looked back, stable and fast, now our main games pc's have the GTX 260's in them and they are as good as I could want.
At the same time every six months I build a couple test pc (this gets sold to friend at cost of parts) this is what I call a test bed I buy the latest and greatest to see if things change.
My conclusion is this
Built a nice pc around the AMD Phen X4 965 best parts and even though its a nice cpu, my q6600 overclocked stable to 3.8 and the amd overclocked to its highest stable speed my old q6600 beats amd's newest flagship so I still can't recommend AMD.
For the last 12 months i've picked pu the latest and greatest AMD has to offer including a very recent 5970 and yes they are faster than my 260 but I still can't recommend them to anyone who wants a stable games machine, I experienced much the same as the below link
grey/brown lines etc, amd is trying to whitewash saying its a win7 issue but if thats so why when I tested and others test with xp etc we get the same effect.
It seems to me ATI/AMD is rushing out incomplete/bugged products with drivers focused more on fast benchmarks than game stability
There is two major problems with the current crop of amd cards
1)they seem to have issues either hardware or software 2d acceleration 2d acc is more important these days with aero etc
www.tomshardware.com/reviews/2d-windows-gdi,2539-10.html
2)there product quality is going down the tube
www.tomshardware.com/news/ATI-Radeon-Gray-Screen-Crash,9529.html
And these are there top of the line cards £600
Now I pride myself on building pc's for my friends and every pc I put together I do not for money (I only charge cost of parts) and sadly even though I used to love AMD products I can't recommend them to anyone.
6 and 2 3's IMO
Ati slightly better tech but faile drivers
Nvidia slightly lower tech but rock solid drivers
I personally choose nvidia everytime they may lose out slightly on performance but hell whats a few frames at 200 FPS but what they do offer is excellent drivers that have never once caused me a issue.
Tom's Hardware is known to be biased towards nVidia, sorry please find a non biased site that it not paid by nVidia to review things.
ATis hardware is not only more powerful, but their drivers are more optimized, and work tons better. You can do much more with them then the crap nVidia spews out and calls drivers. Learn to work the panel and advanced settings. I have been running dual 3870s for over a year now(have a 2900XT in my old system this is a new system built ground up to be a powerhouse.) and it would easily beat any two nVidia cards combined. Why? Because their hardware is not as powerful, and is further reduced into retardation by bottlenecking itself, which then gets passed to their buggy drivers that get worse each build. That is why most people that use them and know what they are doing stick with older nVidia drivers because of the issue the newer ones have constantly. ATi drivers don't do that, they get better and better.
I don't care how long you say, or have been building computers, if you don't know the fundamentals it means nothing, anyone can build a computer it is easy, but to understand the connection between hardware and make sure they are fully compatible and don't bottleneck themselves and each other is totally separate.
Owner/Admin of GodlessGamer.com - Gaming news and reviews for the godless.
nVidias not yet released chip is too big and expensive to produce i.e. their next cards will cost $499-$599 and that means that they will not sell many of them.
I mean 500 to 600 buckaroos for a graphics card?
Give me a break!
All those memories will be lost in time, like tears in the rain.
The reason why more games aren't running DX 10 is because Vista wasn't embraced by gamers, we mostly stuck with XP. I know I did because when vista came out I was running a P4 with 1 gig of ram and a X800. I beta tested it and I had to turn off all the eye candy just to make it run decent.
If gamers start embracing win7 we will start seeing more games in DX 11 no doubt. I got a new system about a year ago. e8400, 4 gigs of ram and a 4850 and I was going to get vista then but I heard about Win7 and held off and just got it for Christmas. I love it so far all my games are running great.
Everyone has their good and bad experiences with cards, personally I never had any problems with ATI. I had my x800 OC for 2 years and It was still running strong before I built my new computer. I Never had any problem with Nvidia either but, IDK I've always just liked ATI better for some reason.
What I find funny about Toms Hardware is when they release a card its bad for ATI. For instance the HD4770 when it was released and reviewed by Toms it was worse then a 9800GTX+. However, when they use the cards in a subsequent review they don't bother fudging the data. When ATI released the HD5670, they used both cards again in benchmarks and the HD4770 performed 10% above the 9800GTX+.
Here in Canada a 5870 is $460 ish and when short supply up to just under $500. The 5970 can reach $700 Canadian.