This is just a symptom of progression games. If a game is entirely based on endlessly progressing your character there has to always be some further progression to achieve. Loot is a handy way for devs to do this because it not only provides progression but also sparks people's avarice.
There is a huge flaw which is a sort of built-in time bomb with endless progression games but I guess I won't get into that.
So given that equipment progression will almost certainly always be a part of progression games it just comes down to how quickly it happens, how the loot is depicted (glowing sword at level 5 or rusty sword?) and what you have to do to get it.
I tend to prefer if it happens more slowly. When you are changing equipment every level or two that seems too fast to me. Related to this, I also feel that levels go by too fast now in games as well. I also prefer if items are depicted as very humble things for a long time, in other words save the flaming weapons for much later (if ever). As to what you have to do to get items; I think I'll stay away from that argument for the moment.
I think your question is marred by the example you give. WoW is a loot treadmill. That's entirely what the game was, moreso what it has become. It teaches a mindset of 'more loot!'. Consider a game that is focused on content completion. Rewards, advancement and focus is about completion of tasks or goals. Immediately the carrot being something else will make it seem like new insatiable thing. WOW does this as well. That little thing called Achievements=) I don't need but a full suit of gear to do my adventuring. I'd rather prefer the low turnover, much like classic WoW since you use it as an example. 1 new piece of gear a month is just about right. It has direct correlation to about how often I need to replace some article of clothing in real life come to think of it. You don't HAVE TO change your gear constantly. NOTHING in the game forces you to do so. Not a thing. You change it when you choose and you certainly how loads of choices.
WOW is an adventure first and foremost actually. Always was. Still is. Some people turn it into a loot treadmill. Some people think you HAVE TO do quests, when you don't. Some think you HAVE TO raid, when you don't. Some think you HAVE TO PvP, but you don't. Some people think you HAVE TO DO this or that, but you don't.
MIght as well call Eve an economy simulator, since EVEYRTHING in the game comes back to ISK, how much you have and how much you need to advance, but we all know its much more.
Personally, I like advancement when playing an RPG. Its defines the whole point of playing. The more ways to advance the better. EVery MMO I know allows you to advance your character and your gear. Some just do the process far better than others.
I think gear progression is almost a necessary evil for companies to keep their players happy and entertained. In the end, I want to say about 75-80% of all MMORPG's players (from my person impressions and experiences) want someone/something else to give them things to do. The people that want the world aka sandbox worlds and have the motivation to figure out things to do for themselves are really a small minority compared to the general player base.
Personally, I would enjoy a game where magic gear was less common maybe because UO started out that way for me. I think a possibility with that would be having a way to upgrade your gear in various ways and personalizing it in a sense and maybe be allowed to even provide your name to it. Then, again I fall in the category of those select minorities that would prefer an open ended world where this idea would only be really possible unless theme parks start putting less emphasis on the gear and more on character skill/progression.
None really. My favorite class in any MMO ever is easily the Scout from DAoC (yeah I know I'm sorry Midgard, I still love you!). Mainly because it was kinda realistic. You fletch an arrow, take aim (guessing that's what the draw time is for hehe), and fire an arrow. No fancy shmansy arcane shots or stings. Plain ol' bow and arrow. I still like my Hunter though, pets ftw!
I love rare loot, and I love number crunching. EQ style was my favorite - loot was rare and truly epic.
I think loot encompasses to me what an MMO should be..Maybe this has something to do why I haven't been able to get into a MMORPG these days. WoW did it - pre-BC anyways, for me.
I guess none of you will be playing Diablo 3 when it comes out then. It's most likely going to be entirely loot driven just like it's predecessors. Although not a MMO it still has that dreaded ohmygosh! gear progression. I like loot and lots of it. It gives the game another goal to strive for which in term keeps me playing.
I tried a game with no loot. It was City of Heroes. It kept my attention for exactly 3 weeks. The shortest amount of time I have ever played a MMORPG and it was for that reason alone i quit playing.
I don't think having a loot system in Diablo 3 will keep people from playing it. Especially because the diablo games were very much "games". The upgrading of the equipment is just part of that game. But if it was removed I don't think I would care as it is more of the action and story that was of interest to me. "loot" was just a pain in the ass because it was another thing I had to haul back to town to sell or throw in the town square for use later.
As far as your last comment, I suppose you are part of the demographic that WoW is looking toward. Not a bad thing, there are different types of people out there who like different types of things.
Heck, I have friends who when they buy black socks or dress shirts they buy the cheapest thing out there because it doesn't matter to them, especially since the socks are covered by by shoes and dress shirts covered by their suit jackets.
Myself? I tend to go all out and buy the best quality stuff I can find becuase it lasts and it feels good.
Some people don't care a jot about graphics and some need to have the best rendered stuff. Just takes all kinds.
Though I'm starting to think that besides the look of items, I don't really care about "loot" anymore.
As someone above mentioned, the idea that they had to replace their sword every 5 levels just seems absurd.
I'm starting to think that I would just like "sword". it might look great but might not need replacing for many levels.
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I liked the D2 and Hellgate loot drop rates. I like the idea not only lots of loot drops, but a different/random variety of skills/attributes/etc... for each drop. Hellgate was interesting as you can mix and match shoulders, pants, chest, helm, gloves, boots, and belts (yes, and even for belts you can see a graphical difference). I also like that you can start collecting certain armor peices w/ a specific theme for a combined stacking effect (for instance, Belt with 8% Increased Running Speed + Boots with 7% Running speed + etc... this would stack). Also each armor peice would provide an overall color choice you could switch your character too. But overall I like games that allow for armor peices to stack effects/attributes and in some cases, would give the toon a free skill/power.
Comments
This is just a symptom of progression games. If a game is entirely based on endlessly progressing your character there has to always be some further progression to achieve. Loot is a handy way for devs to do this because it not only provides progression but also sparks people's avarice.
There is a huge flaw which is a sort of built-in time bomb with endless progression games but I guess I won't get into that.
So given that equipment progression will almost certainly always be a part of progression games it just comes down to how quickly it happens, how the loot is depicted (glowing sword at level 5 or rusty sword?) and what you have to do to get it.
I tend to prefer if it happens more slowly. When you are changing equipment every level or two that seems too fast to me. Related to this, I also feel that levels go by too fast now in games as well. I also prefer if items are depicted as very humble things for a long time, in other words save the flaming weapons for much later (if ever). As to what you have to do to get items; I think I'll stay away from that argument for the moment.
WOW is an adventure first and foremost actually. Always was. Still is. Some people turn it into a loot treadmill. Some people think you HAVE TO do quests, when you don't. Some think you HAVE TO raid, when you don't. Some think you HAVE TO PvP, but you don't. Some people think you HAVE TO DO this or that, but you don't.
MIght as well call Eve an economy simulator, since EVEYRTHING in the game comes back to ISK, how much you have and how much you need to advance, but we all know its much more.
Personally, I like advancement when playing an RPG. Its defines the whole point of playing. The more ways to advance the better. EVery MMO I know allows you to advance your character and your gear. Some just do the process far better than others.
I think gear progression is almost a necessary evil for companies to keep their players happy and entertained. In the end, I want to say about 75-80% of all MMORPG's players (from my person impressions and experiences) want someone/something else to give them things to do. The people that want the world aka sandbox worlds and have the motivation to figure out things to do for themselves are really a small minority compared to the general player base.
Personally, I would enjoy a game where magic gear was less common maybe because UO started out that way for me. I think a possibility with that would be having a way to upgrade your gear in various ways and personalizing it in a sense and maybe be allowed to even provide your name to it. Then, again I fall in the category of those select minorities that would prefer an open ended world where this idea would only be really possible unless theme parks start putting less emphasis on the gear and more on character skill/progression.
I honestly don't need much..
I'd prefer if my enjoyment/entertainment from an MMO comes from things other than an endless chase for gear. Though its a rare game that does that...
None really. My favorite class in any MMO ever is easily the Scout from DAoC (yeah I know I'm sorry Midgard, I still love you!). Mainly because it was kinda realistic. You fletch an arrow, take aim (guessing that's what the draw time is for hehe), and fire an arrow. No fancy shmansy arcane shots or stings. Plain ol' bow and arrow. I still like my Hunter though, pets ftw!
I love rare loot, and I love number crunching. EQ style was my favorite - loot was rare and truly epic.
I think loot encompasses to me what an MMO should be..Maybe this has something to do why I haven't been able to get into a MMORPG these days. WoW did it - pre-BC anyways, for me.
I don't think having a loot system in Diablo 3 will keep people from playing it. Especially because the diablo games were very much "games". The upgrading of the equipment is just part of that game. But if it was removed I don't think I would care as it is more of the action and story that was of interest to me. "loot" was just a pain in the ass because it was another thing I had to haul back to town to sell or throw in the town square for use later.
As far as your last comment, I suppose you are part of the demographic that WoW is looking toward. Not a bad thing, there are different types of people out there who like different types of things.
Heck, I have friends who when they buy black socks or dress shirts they buy the cheapest thing out there because it doesn't matter to them, especially since the socks are covered by by shoes and dress shirts covered by their suit jackets.
Myself? I tend to go all out and buy the best quality stuff I can find becuase it lasts and it feels good.
Some people don't care a jot about graphics and some need to have the best rendered stuff. Just takes all kinds.
Though I'm starting to think that besides the look of items, I don't really care about "loot" anymore.
As someone above mentioned, the idea that they had to replace their sword every 5 levels just seems absurd.
I'm starting to think that I would just like "sword". it might look great but might not need replacing for many levels.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I liked the D2 and Hellgate loot drop rates. I like the idea not only lots of loot drops, but a different/random variety of skills/attributes/etc... for each drop. Hellgate was interesting as you can mix and match shoulders, pants, chest, helm, gloves, boots, and belts (yes, and even for belts you can see a graphical difference). I also like that you can start collecting certain armor peices w/ a specific theme for a combined stacking effect (for instance, Belt with 8% Increased Running Speed + Boots with 7% Running speed + etc... this would stack). Also each armor peice would provide an overall color choice you could switch your character too. But overall I like games that allow for armor peices to stack effects/attributes and in some cases, would give the toon a free skill/power.