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Study: Warp speed will kill you! Startrek is not realistic! =(
rlmccoy1987
Member Posts: 1,722
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Science tells Star Trek:
Clearly this "Professor Edelstein" is a alien time traveller from the future sent the past (present) to try to trick us into never developing warp drive (possibly an enemy of Gary 7).
I'm not worried because I'm sure Kirk and crew will be travelling back in time to stop him. Presumably by Kirk sleeping with him and giving him a lethal case of space-herpes.
By the way, have you noticed in STO that no matter where you have to go, you always enter warp in the direction you're facing? I'm sure they do that to throw off pursuit, right?
Woo, scientific discussions on fictional technology totally beyond our current capabilities, the discussion will be so interesting *grabs popcorn* (while it may sound sarcastic, it really isn't, I do enjoy seeing these discussions of science fiction possibilities or impossibilities).
As mentioned, we so totally know everything about everything to know it's deadly and unavoidable! This Kirk guy is so insane defying the laws of what we know, heck the whole science fiction genre is, because we all knew how internet would dominate the world 100 years ago, and we all know what's going to happen in 500 years. Oh wait... we do... 2012 is the end anyway.
No sorry but this doesn't do anything but show the authors ignorance of actual Warp Theory. While a ship using normal means of propulsion to accelerate to near the speed of light would encounter problems such as described by the OP as well as many other factors that would vaporize the ship and crew a Warp Ship like in Star Trek wouldn't have these problems. This is because the ship would be enclosed in a Warp bubble of normal space-time that would move along with the ship. Modern day Physicists have stated that this would be one stable way to achieve faster than light travel. Because the space-time around the ship would be stationary in relation to the ship there would be no accelerated atoms to interact with the ship. These would be outside of the bubble and would be deflected around it much in the same manor Photons are deflected around a large gravity well such as a Black Hole or Neutron Star.
Of course to generate a Warp bubble would take a vast amount of Negative Energy(Antimatter in Star Trek). In the article I linked one Theoretical Physicist has extrapolated that based on the last 200 years of technical advances it may take us nearly 200 more to achieve this level of technology. The theory is sound just not doable at our current level of technology.
Bren
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Haha, this thread is hilarious. I'm calling deflector dish for the win!
Which is why the entire crew isn't liquified from smashing against the aft bulkheads as the ship accelerates to light speed. Hasn't the professor seen an episode? The lack of the affects of acceleration should have been a big giveaway.
In Star Trek Tech, that would be thanks to inertial dampeners.
Probably invented by Starfleet's best scientists to try to contain Kirk's libido.
Actually no. Inertial Dampeners would only be required for speeds far less than light speed(non-warp). At Warp there would be no inertia because the ship wouldn't be moving at all. The space around the ship is what is being moved.
Bren
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The ship doesnt move in warp... the space moves?
The ship doesnt move in warp... the space moves?
Exactly.
Bren
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it's star trek technobabble they were hardly consistent. i don't think that theoretical warp physics and star trek physics are the same thing. I also recall several episodes where the ship couldn't jump into warp with the inertial dampeners malfunctioning, actually i think they killed some bad guys this way once.
And that is where the confusion is. I'm talking actual Theoretical Physics not Star Trek Physics. They are similar but there are some drastic differences. Gene Roddenberry used a lot of actual Scientific Theories when he originally created Star Trek but there has been a lot of artistic license taken since the original episode aired back in 1966.
Warp Travel is theoretically possible and although similar to Star Trek there would be some noticeable differences. In Warp Theory a Warp Bubble of Space-Time is created around a ship. This bubble has it's own separate laws of physics that govern what happens inside of it. Inside of the bubble the ship would seem to be stationary even though the bubble itself may traveling at many times the speed of light. It's the bubble that is moving and not the ship. The ship is just sort of along for the ride so to speak. The Warp Bubble is like a subset of Physics that is separated from the universe around it. This is also how it can travel at speeds greater than Light Speed without breaking the almighty universal Law of Physics, E=MC^2.
Bren
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there is the entire Trek-theory of subspace, which is via manipulation by the warp drive, is how the ships move above lightspeed, as well as live communications between vast distances with nearly no lag-time. apparently there is some kind of bandwidth constraint, as most non-command communications is still done via video-mail, as seen numerous times in TNG when crewmembers receive messages from their family members.
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Didn't they torture and kill the 1st guy that said the earth was round? I think they put him on a ship stabbed him in the back and asked him to swim home before the sharks came. Pythagoras or some weird guy. My point is...someone has to think this stuff up, and someday it might work. Do you want to be know as the morons that stabbed him, or do you want to be known as the people that helped him?
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That interstellar debris is why most all the starships in Star Trek have some kind of deflector dish/screeen/thing: it projects a weak force field that is there mostly to deflect that debris. It's not that useful against something with sufficient mass, or against focused energy weapons, but it stops the little stuff.
I'm no Trekkie, and even I remembered that much from the show.
I guess no one told the article writer that they travel in a "sub-space" bubble when they travel at warp.
and yet nobody complains about the lack of realism in superhero or fantasy games.... or is magic more believable than FTL travel ?
and yet nobody complains about the lack of realism in superhero or fantasy games.... or is magic more believable than FTL travel ?
I think people question Sci-Fi exactly for that reason, because it seems almost doable and just requires some technological advances. Harry potter on the other hand will still be just a fantasy even 200 or 400 years in the future. The immersion of sci-fi is the "could be", while in fantasy its a "lets pretend".
That being said the guy writing that article obviously has not properly researched all material. There are plenty of vids on youtube by some unnamed crewmember filming the crew as they go to warp, nobody dies, quod erat demonstrandum.
and yet nobody complains about the lack of realism in superhero or fantasy games.... or is magic more believable than FTL travel ?
because magic (or the Force) don't pretend to have relevance in the real world, which is why religions are being debunked every day but not biology of ewoks nor the physics behind Professor X screwing the Intergalactic Queen Lilandra.
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and yet nobody complains about the lack of realism in superhero or fantasy games.... or is magic more believable than FTL travel ?
I think people question Sci-Fi exactly for that reason, because it seems almost doable and just requires some technological advances. Harry potter on the other hand will still be just a fantasy even 200 or 400 years in the future. The immersion of sci-fi is the "could be", while in fantasy its a "lets pretend".
That being said the guy writing that article obviously has not properly researched all material. There are plenty of vids on youtube by some unnamed crewmember filming the crew as they go to warp, nobody dies, quod erat demonstrandum.
i hope OP isn't basing anything on this vid... albeit very cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI8ldDyr3G0&feature=player_embedded
again, subspace/warp bubble ftw.
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So we have warp speed figured out, but how do we get gravity on the ship so that the crew walks around vs. floating around?
according to wiki on artificial gravity:
Mass
Another way artificial gravity may be achieved is by installing an ultra-high density mass in a spacecraft so that it would generate its own gravitational field and pull everything inside towards it. Technically this is not artificial gravity—it is natural gravity, gravity in its original sense. An extremely large amount of mass would be needed to produce even a tiny amount of noticeable gravity. A large asteroid could exert several thousandths of a g and, by attaching a propulsion system of some kind, would qualify as a space ship, though gravity at such a low level might not have any practical value. In addition, the mass would obviously need to move with the spacecraft; if the spacecraft is to be accelerated significantly, this would greatly increase fuel consumption. Because gravitational force is proportional to the square of the distance from the center of mass, it would be possible to have significant levels of gravity with much less mass than such an asteroid if this mass could be made much denser than current materials (see neutronium and unobtainium). In principle small charged black holes could be used and held in position with electromagnetic forces. However, carrying a sufficient quantity of mass to form significant gravity fields in a spacecraft is well beyond current technology.
i think in terms of ST, this could be the closest probable choice for a gravity generator. something so dense that it'll generate it's own gravity, since there's no point of reference to real life on fuel consumption.
ala Memory Alpha(the website, not the ingame system)
memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Artificial_gravity
they employ graviton particles. although theoretical, these bosons could generate the varying amounts of gravity as seen in Star Trek.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graviton
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Zork(game), Wizardry Compiled(novel), Dune(novel), G1 Transformers(cartoon).
And that is where the confusion is. I'm talking actual Theoretical Physics not Star Trek Physics. They are similar but there are some drastic differences. Gene Roddenberry used a lot of actual Scientific Theories when he originally created Star Trek but there has been a lot of artistic license taken since the original episode aired back in 1966.
Warp Travel is theoretically possible and although similar to Star Trek there would be some noticeable differences. In Warp Theory a Warp Bubble of Space-Time is created around a ship. This bubble has it's own separate laws of physics that govern what happens inside of it. Inside of the bubble the ship would seem to be stationary even though the bubble itself may traveling at many times the speed of light. It's the bubble that is moving and not the ship. The ship is just sort of along for the ride so to speak. The Warp Bubble is like a subset of Physics that is separated from the universe around it. This is also how it can travel at speeds greater than Light Speed without breaking the almighty universal Law of Physics, E=MC^2.
Bren
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warp_drive