WoW's success has attracted attention to the genre.
The bad news is just like almost all RPGs copied Diablo for a long period of time, all MMOs are trying to copy WoW.
I don't blame Blizzard for companies like Turbine(oh boy, LOTRO fanbois are gonna flame me to no end), Funcom, EA Mythic, SOE(EQ2) and others for copying WoW. The blame falls squarely on their shoulders for not realizing there is already a WoW, and that audience is very happy. This is not a single player RPG genre where people are done with a game in a month, and are eager to pick up a similar game. MMOs are meant to be played for years; not days or weeks. I hope one day companies realize this. Its possible they just give up, and leave this genre to Blizzard.
Now, Blizzard is an undisputed king of the MMO world. As i scroll through the game list waiting for my time card on WoW to expire i thought to myself, "What would the development of the MMO industry would be today with out world of warcraft?" I am bored of WoW i hit 80 and that was enough for me, but others love the game, and i also heard a report from blizzard that they hit the climax of subscribers in 2008. So in a world with out warcraft not to far away? How would have our lives and society been changed if blizzard hadn't made this multi billion dollar game. Who would be the king of the industry today if it was not blizzard.
I'm assuming you meant "is a world without warcraft not too far away?". Probably in 5-10 years. It will exist until it is no longer profitable.
As far as what the MMO industry would be like without wow. It would probably look the same as the MP3 player industry without the iPod. WoW set the gold standard and showed a lot of big studios that MMO's are quite popular. I would even go as far as to say that WoW made others games more profitable by getting people into the MMO genre who didn't necissarily like the game, but liked MMO's. There are plenty of these people ranting about how much WoW sucks, but they went on to buy another game or two. In short, WoW took a little known passtime for a small demographic and brought it to the mainstream.
I don't see how some can say WoW represents the mmo genre and without it we wouldn't be successful. WoW is nothing more than a dumbed-down copy of what was out there in 2005. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good for you in the long run.
Me and my RL friends that started playing WOW in 2004, did so because we were big fans of the Warcraft RTS games as well as Diablo 2. I often wonder how many started playing for the same reasons.
I started playing WoW because everyone started leaving FFXI when WoW was released. I was a level 61 Hume Paladin with full AF. This was when Chains of Promathia was released.. which was a really crappy expansion.. Jeuno was full of people saying "WoW is awesome I'm quitting" and eventually I decided to see for myself about 2-3 months after the release of WoW.
There were MMOs before WOW and there would be after WOW. WOWs 11 million did nothing for the industry other than for WOW. They hop to other games from time to time and find out its not like WOW and run back. The only thing that might be different is that there might still be some creativity besides the clones that currently come out.
I'm going to agree with this. If not for WoW (I feel dirty even typing it) who knows what kind of innovative games we might have today? Virtual worlds without instances, without designated PVP areas, without the eternal quest for the next purple item...
Instead we get a bunch of companies pouring cash into clones, hoping for a piece of the pie.
Not to mention the VERMIN that have infested the MMORPG playerbase as a result. Yeah, I said it. A good percentage of these clowns would be playing their Xboxes and not infesting every game like roaches with ADD.
And as someone mentioned....we probably wouldn't have the NGE
There were MMOs before WOW and there would be after WOW. WOWs 11 million did nothing for the industry other than for WOW. They hop to other games from time to time and find out its not like WOW and run back. The only thing that might be different is that there might still be some creativity besides the clones that currently come out.
I'm going to agree with this. If not for WoW (I feel dirty even typing it) who knows what kind of innovative games we might have today? Virtual worlds without instances, without designated PVP areas, without the eternal quest for the next purple item...
Instead we get a bunch of companies pouring cash into clones, hoping for a piece of the pie.
Not to mention the VERMIN that have infested the MMORPG playerbase as a result. Yeah, I said it. A good percentage of these clowns would be playing their Xboxes and not infesting every game like roaches with ADD.
And as someone mentioned....we probably wouldn't have the NGE
WIN WIN WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/THREAD
Your first post is this? I don't know whether to laugh or cry...
I don't see how some can say WoW represents the mmo genre and without it we wouldn't be successful. WoW is nothing more than a dumbed-down copy of what was out there in 2005. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good for you in the long run.
You call I dumbing down, I call it streamline the more tedious part of the game so player can focus on the primary part of WoW which is the combat. Hell I am willing to bet that WoW boss fights are the most complex and interesting to day. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that WoW by far have the most intricate, balanced and functional PvP mechanic out of all the MMO out there. Hell, that the World of Warcraft feel more alive and have better animation than every other MMO out there. People are not that casual or stupid, they don't keep going back to a game because it is easy or familiar. They keep going back to the game because everything else out there are just not up to par.
There were MMOs before WOW and there would be after WOW. WOWs 11 million did nothing for the industry other than for WOW. They hop to other games from time to time and find out its not like WOW and run back. The only thing that might be different is that there might still be some creativity besides the clones that currently come out.
I'm going to agree with this. If not for WoW (I feel dirty even typing it) who knows what kind of innovative games we might have today? Virtual worlds without instances, without designated PVP areas, without the eternal quest for the next purple item...
Instead we get a bunch of companies pouring cash into clones, hoping for a piece of the pie.
Not to mention the VERMIN that have infested the MMORPG playerbase as a result. Yeah, I said it. A good percentage of these clowns would be playing their Xboxes and not infesting every game like roaches with ADD.
And as someone mentioned....we probably wouldn't have the NGE
WIN WIN WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/THREAD
Your first post is this? I don't know whether to laugh or cry...
HIs post made me feel so good I could hardly contain myself
I don't see how some can say WoW represents the mmo genre and without it we wouldn't be successful. WoW is nothing more than a dumbed-down copy of what was out there in 2005. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good for you in the long run.
You call I dumbing down, I call it streamline the more tedious part of the game so player can focus on the primary part of WoW which is the combat. Hell I am willing to bet that WoW boss fights are the most complex and interesting to day. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that WoW by far have the most intricate, balanced and functional PvP mechanic out of all the MMO out there. Hell, that the World of Warcraft feel more alive and have better animation than every other MMO out there. People are not that casual or stupid, they don't keep going back to a game because it is easy or familiar. They keep going back to the game because everything else out there are just not up to par.
Go find a professional review that calls WOW "dumbed down". Can't find one? Maybe thats because its used as an immature insult=) Streamlining isn't dumbing down. A usable interface and less bugs, isn't dumb either. WOW's classes are more diverse and require more attention and split sec reaction than anything from EQ. WOW's bosses are more complex. WOW's dungeons are more complex.
Once the elitist once teenage MMO veteran farts figure out that downtime, exp loss, naked corpse runs, 24hr spawn timers and forced grouping isn't complexity, the sooner they'll understand just why millions went to play WOW and left EQ and every other MMO in droves the day it released. Other MMOs emptied out and the players never returned. Doesn't that speak volumes?
EQ didn't require more brains to play. It just required a lot more time. The most complex parts of WOW destroy the most complex parts of EQ. Always have. Always will. WOW always was easy to play, but NOT easy to excell. EQ on the other hand was a PITA to play and NOT because it was complex or required brains. It was due to lousy design that didn't make sense and had no direction because the developer didn't even understand their own game.
I don't see how some can say WoW represents the mmo genre and without it we wouldn't be successful. WoW is nothing more than a dumbed-down copy of what was out there in 2005. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good for you in the long run.
You call I dumbing down, I call it streamline the more tedious part of the game so player can focus on the primary part of WoW which is the combat. Hell I am willing to bet that WoW boss fights are the most complex and interesting to day. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that WoW by far have the most intricate, balanced and functional PvP mechanic out of all the MMO out there. Hell, that the World of Warcraft feel more alive and have better animation than every other MMO out there. People are not that casual or stupid, they don't keep going back to a game because it is easy or familiar. They keep going back to the game because everything else out there are just not up to par.
Go find a professional review that calls WOW "dumbed down". Can't find one? Maybe thats because its used as an immature insult=) Streamlining isn't dumbing down. WOW's classes are more diverse and require more attention and split sec reaction than anything from EQ. WOW's bosses are more complex. WOW's dungeons are more complex.
Once the elitist once teenage MMO veteran farts figure out that downtime, exp loss, naked corpse runs, 24hr spawn timers and forced grouping isn't complexity, the sooner they'll understand just why millions went to play WOW and left EQ and every other MMO in droves the day it released. Other MMOs emptied out and the players never returned. Doesn't that speak volumes?
EQ didn't require more brains to play. It just required a lot more time. The most complex parts of WOW destroy the most complex parts of EQ. Always have. Always will. WOW always was easy to play, but NOT easy to excell. EQ on the other hand was a PITA to play and NOT because it was complex or required brains. It was due to lousy design that didn't make sense and had no direction because the developer didn't even understand their own game.
I believe that WoW would be a better game without the addons.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
SWG would still be going strong and the NGE would have never happened. WAR would have been designed first around open world RVR instead of battleground scenarios with the former tacked on. EQ2 would still be difficult and challenging. More games would have placed value on items such as deep crafting systems and player housing. Balance between all classes wouldn't have been such an issue as it is today. No wait, yes it still would, people like to whine. EVE would have ....300,000 paid subs.
A skilled man jumps off a cliff and does a perfect dive into the ocean. TV cameras are there along with girls, fame and everything. This guy becomes a star.
You decide to do the same thing, you jump, and hit the side of a cliff. You barely survive and are paralyzed for life.
The answer is easy. There wouldnt be any mmo's if it wasent for wow.
That's funny last time I checked Ultima Online, Everquest, SWG, etc were all still running...odd I thought they were MMO's...
But if Blizzard was to pull the plug today it wouldn't matter one iota on the future of MMO gaming, Already companies are starting to look outside the WoW model (Which should really be called the EQ model) for something different. If WoW was to vanish something that's currently available would simply takes it's place on top of the sub ranking charts, while new games will continue to be pumped out.
Personally I don't like WoW, played the 14 day trial and said "WTF? This is EQ with a Paint Job" let the trail expire and never looked back. I still can not understand how it got what I like to call and "Applish fanatic following of fan-boys" Apple is a crap company that pushes a Linux Hybrid OS on over priced Hardware and when you strip away the Magical Fairy Farts, Blizzard has you guys huffing it's nothing more than a shined up customized EQ Clone nothing special at all about it.
I've read through most of the replies in this thread and won't try and dispute/affirm any of the posts but will simply give my input. Tho' I'm new to the site, I'm not new to mmo world. Like some of you (presumably), I started my mmo adventure back in 1999, with EQ.
The thing about EverQuest is that it was unforgiving, difficult, a timesink to the goddamned extreme...but it was also (arguably) the first of it's kind and it was challenging and above all, fun. So after like 5yrs of goodtimes on the Cazic-Thule, my interest started to wane. Just about my entire guild was starting to play wow and so I figured, what the hell. At first I didn't like the cartoonish graphics and the game seemed very simple. Over time I really began to enjoy the experience and appreciated that some of the frustrations prevalent in EQ were, in my mind, thoughtfully compensated for. Being able to solo, recovery time, travel time reduced etc. and overall the gameplay mechanics were smooth and the classes seemed balanced.
Wow also did something other mmos did not: the game made it very easy for just about anyone to play, ie no mmo experience needed. You can say what you want about the outdated graphics or the fact that EQ only peeked at like 400kish subscribers but the one thing everyone can probably agree on is that back in the day, it was one hardcore mmo. Not so much these days (I just started up again after a 5yr vacation from EQ), but you get the point. Wow got the girlfriends, the housewives, the stay at home moms and dads, hell, the grandparents and the grandchildren playing. Yes, there are still the hardcore gamers that started back in the day and the new kids that are what I like to call Generation XBOX, but overall Wow is still the casual gamers game. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have spread like a plague.
So as many people mentioned, Wow, has a fton of subscribers and this equates with success, right? On the basis that Wow was able to generate interest in areas of the population that otherwise would have never ever ventured into the realm of the mmo, then I say yes...without a doubt it has been a commercial success. Because Wow was able to peak at about 10 million subscriptions (15% were supposed to be gold farmers, but whatever) it opened up the mmo to, as it was said before, "companies that just want a piece of the pie".
I can't say that the mmo world would be a better place w/out Wow. I did drop my account about 6mos ago and haven't had the desire to play again. I just felt like the game ran its course for me and there wasn't much challenge to be had, pve wise. What I'm hoping for in the future (EQ3 *ahem*) is a game that will be for both the hardcore and casual gamer. If I could take the graphics of Vanguard with some of the challenges of EQ and combine it with the interest and population and pvp/pve content that World of Warcraft currently has to offer...that indeed would be one badass game.
I don't see how some can say WoW represents the mmo genre and without it we wouldn't be successful. WoW is nothing more than a dumbed-down copy of what was out there in 2005. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good for you in the long run.
You call I dumbing down, I call it streamline the more tedious part of the game so player can focus on the primary part of WoW which is the combat. Hell I am willing to bet that WoW boss fights are the most complex and interesting to day. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that WoW by far have the most intricate, balanced and functional PvP mechanic out of all the MMO out there. Hell, that the World of Warcraft feel more alive and have better animation than every other MMO out there. People are not that casual or stupid, they don't keep going back to a game because it is easy or familiar. They keep going back to the game because everything else out there are just not up to par.
Go find a professional review that calls WOW "dumbed down". Can't find one? Maybe thats because its used as an immature insult=) Streamlining isn't dumbing down. A usable interface and less bugs, isn't dumb either. WOW's classes are more diverse and require more attention and split sec reaction than anything from EQ. WOW's bosses are more complex. WOW's dungeons are more complex.
Once the elitist once teenage MMO veteran farts figure out that downtime, exp loss, naked corpse runs, 24hr spawn timers and forced grouping isn't complexity, the sooner they'll understand just why millions went to play WOW and left EQ and every other MMO in droves the day it released. Other MMOs emptied out and the players never returned. Doesn't that speak volumes?
EQ didn't require more brains to play. It just required a lot more time. The most complex parts of WOW destroy the most complex parts of EQ. Always have. Always will. WOW always was easy to play, but NOT easy to excell. EQ on the other hand was a PITA to play and NOT because it was complex or required brains. It was due to lousy design that didn't make sense and had no direction because the developer didn't even understand their own game.
If you really think for one second it takes skill or "brains" to excel in wow, you are a shallow fool. It is very much dumbed down, and the 80% of the wow population that are morons is living proof of it. Some of you chumps might actually keep coming back to wow because you think it isnt dumbed down, but most keep coming back to it because they cant survive in an environment that DOES actually require skill or brains.
Ultimately, most folks who havent already realized it will likely do so eventually, wow is a blessing. It keeps all the idiots pooled up and out of the way.
"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on." - Winston Churchill
SWG would still be going strong and the NGE would have never happened. WAR would have been designed first around open world RVR instead of battleground scenarios with the former tacked on. EQ2 would still be difficult and challenging. More games would have placed value on items such as deep crafting systems and player housing. Balance between all classes wouldn't have been such an issue as it is today. No wait, yes it still would, people like to whine. EVE would have ....300,000 paid subs.
A skilled man jumps off a cliff and does a perfect dive into the ocean. TV cameras are there along with girls, fame and everything. This guy becomes a star.
You decide to do the same thing, you jump, and hit the side of a cliff. You barely survive and are paralyzed for life.
And you want to blame HIM?
man sticks his wiener in a bee hive and it doesn't get stung, another man does the same thing and gets it stung. point of this story dont stick you wiener in a bee hive.
Ok, I got the first analogy, but the second one doesn't make sense. What do beehives and penises have to do with MMOs?
SWG would still be going strong and the NGE would have never happened. WAR would have been designed first around open world RVR instead of battleground scenarios with the former tacked on. EQ2 would still be difficult and challenging. More games would have placed value on items such as deep crafting systems and player housing. Balance between all classes wouldn't have been such an issue as it is today. No wait, yes it still would, people like to whine. EVE would have ....300,000 paid subs.
Your post reads like what those people who stalk movie stars say.
You don't know if WoW had an impact on your favorite games or not.
My theory is that companies made changes to games like swg and eq2 to cut customer service costs.
WoW is an MMORPG on easy mode. It did away with everything that made an MMO challenging, and wrapped it all up in a pretty box.
People don't go back to WOW because it's that good...they do it because it's that easy. They can't comprehend concepts such as housing, complex crafting, and having to spend more than 30 minutes engaged in the same activity.
It's instant gratification, MMORPG style.
Really...where is the sense of accomplishment?? The sense of wonder as you travel the world, simply exploring? WoW leads you by the nose from one zone to another, from one quest to another, everything is thought out for you.
And here's the real kicker....before WoW, (and in other "niche" games since) there wre things to do in an MMORPG OTHER than combat!!!
People go back to WoW because other games are overwealming to them. They don't know what to do, and how to handle not being led from point A to point B....and Hell forbid that they should have to WALK there instead of teleporting.
As someone above me said....I was here before WoW. I remember how the industry used to be, and how fucking GREAT the games were. Every game was unique....and had it's own take on the "virtual world" concept that MMORPGs used to represent. We'd be better off without the huge multi-million dollar corporate cash-grabs that are churned out every year in an attempt to get a piece of the WoW pie.
MUCH better off.
In fact, even PNP RPGs have tried to clone WoW...look at the newest editions of AD&D. Makes me wanna vomit.
SWG would still be going strong and the NGE would have never happened. WAR would have been designed first around open world RVR instead of battleground scenarios with the former tacked on. EQ2 would still be difficult and challenging. More games would have placed value on items such as deep crafting systems and player housing. Balance between all classes wouldn't have been such an issue as it is today. No wait, yes it still would, people like to whine. EVE would have ....300,000 paid subs.
Your post reads like what those people who stalk movie stars say.
You don't know if WoW had an impact on your favorite games or not.
My theory is that companies made changes to games like swg and eq2 to cut customer service costs.
umm..when a game as complex as SWG was is stripped down, over-simplified, and turned into a quest grind, it's pretty fucking obvious what happened.
AND when reps are quoted as saying things such as "This is Star Wars....why doesn't it have more subs than WoW??" It's DAMN obvious what happened.
Comments
WoW's success has attracted attention to the genre.
The bad news is just like almost all RPGs copied Diablo for a long period of time, all MMOs are trying to copy WoW.
I don't blame Blizzard for companies like Turbine(oh boy, LOTRO fanbois are gonna flame me to no end), Funcom, EA Mythic, SOE(EQ2) and others for copying WoW. The blame falls squarely on their shoulders for not realizing there is already a WoW, and that audience is very happy. This is not a single player RPG genre where people are done with a game in a month, and are eager to pick up a similar game. MMOs are meant to be played for years; not days or weeks. I hope one day companies realize this. Its possible they just give up, and leave this genre to Blizzard.
I'm assuming you meant "is a world without warcraft not too far away?". Probably in 5-10 years. It will exist until it is no longer profitable.
As far as what the MMO industry would be like without wow. It would probably look the same as the MP3 player industry without the iPod. WoW set the gold standard and showed a lot of big studios that MMO's are quite popular. I would even go as far as to say that WoW made others games more profitable by getting people into the MMO genre who didn't necissarily like the game, but liked MMO's. There are plenty of these people ranting about how much WoW sucks, but they went on to buy another game or two. In short, WoW took a little known passtime for a small demographic and brought it to the mainstream.
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Me and my RL friends that started playing WOW in 2004, did so because we were big fans of the Warcraft RTS games as well as Diablo 2. I often wonder how many started playing for the same reasons.
I started playing WoW because everyone started leaving FFXI when WoW was released. I was a level 61 Hume Paladin with full AF. This was when Chains of Promathia was released.. which was a really crappy expansion.. Jeuno was full of people saying "WoW is awesome I'm quitting" and eventually I decided to see for myself about 2-3 months after the release of WoW.
I'm going to agree with this. If not for WoW (I feel dirty even typing it) who knows what kind of innovative games we might have today? Virtual worlds without instances, without designated PVP areas, without the eternal quest for the next purple item...
Instead we get a bunch of companies pouring cash into clones, hoping for a piece of the pie.
Not to mention the VERMIN that have infested the MMORPG playerbase as a result. Yeah, I said it. A good percentage of these clowns would be playing their Xboxes and not infesting every game like roaches with ADD.
And as someone mentioned....we probably wouldn't have the NGE
WIN WIN WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/THREAD
I'm going to agree with this. If not for WoW (I feel dirty even typing it) who knows what kind of innovative games we might have today? Virtual worlds without instances, without designated PVP areas, without the eternal quest for the next purple item...
Instead we get a bunch of companies pouring cash into clones, hoping for a piece of the pie.
Not to mention the VERMIN that have infested the MMORPG playerbase as a result. Yeah, I said it. A good percentage of these clowns would be playing their Xboxes and not infesting every game like roaches with ADD.
And as someone mentioned....we probably wouldn't have the NGE
WIN WIN WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/THREAD
Your first post is this? I don't know whether to laugh or cry...
You call I dumbing down, I call it streamline the more tedious part of the game so player can focus on the primary part of WoW which is the combat. Hell I am willing to bet that WoW boss fights are the most complex and interesting to day. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that WoW by far have the most intricate, balanced and functional PvP mechanic out of all the MMO out there. Hell, that the World of Warcraft feel more alive and have better animation than every other MMO out there. People are not that casual or stupid, they don't keep going back to a game because it is easy or familiar. They keep going back to the game because everything else out there are just not up to par.
Another game would of picked up at some point, and done the same thing.
I'm going to agree with this. If not for WoW (I feel dirty even typing it) who knows what kind of innovative games we might have today? Virtual worlds without instances, without designated PVP areas, without the eternal quest for the next purple item...
Instead we get a bunch of companies pouring cash into clones, hoping for a piece of the pie.
Not to mention the VERMIN that have infested the MMORPG playerbase as a result. Yeah, I said it. A good percentage of these clowns would be playing their Xboxes and not infesting every game like roaches with ADD.
And as someone mentioned....we probably wouldn't have the NGE
WIN WIN WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
/THREAD
Your first post is this? I don't know whether to laugh or cry...
HIs post made me feel so good I could hardly contain myself
Yeah this pretty much.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
You call I dumbing down, I call it streamline the more tedious part of the game so player can focus on the primary part of WoW which is the combat. Hell I am willing to bet that WoW boss fights are the most complex and interesting to day. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that WoW by far have the most intricate, balanced and functional PvP mechanic out of all the MMO out there. Hell, that the World of Warcraft feel more alive and have better animation than every other MMO out there. People are not that casual or stupid, they don't keep going back to a game because it is easy or familiar. They keep going back to the game because everything else out there are just not up to par.
Go find a professional review that calls WOW "dumbed down". Can't find one? Maybe thats because its used as an immature insult=) Streamlining isn't dumbing down. A usable interface and less bugs, isn't dumb either. WOW's classes are more diverse and require more attention and split sec reaction than anything from EQ. WOW's bosses are more complex. WOW's dungeons are more complex.
Once the elitist once teenage MMO veteran farts figure out that downtime, exp loss, naked corpse runs, 24hr spawn timers and forced grouping isn't complexity, the sooner they'll understand just why millions went to play WOW and left EQ and every other MMO in droves the day it released. Other MMOs emptied out and the players never returned. Doesn't that speak volumes?
EQ didn't require more brains to play. It just required a lot more time. The most complex parts of WOW destroy the most complex parts of EQ. Always have. Always will. WOW always was easy to play, but NOT easy to excell. EQ on the other hand was a PITA to play and NOT because it was complex or required brains. It was due to lousy design that didn't make sense and had no direction because the developer didn't even understand their own game.
You call I dumbing down, I call it streamline the more tedious part of the game so player can focus on the primary part of WoW which is the combat. Hell I am willing to bet that WoW boss fights are the most complex and interesting to day. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that WoW by far have the most intricate, balanced and functional PvP mechanic out of all the MMO out there. Hell, that the World of Warcraft feel more alive and have better animation than every other MMO out there. People are not that casual or stupid, they don't keep going back to a game because it is easy or familiar. They keep going back to the game because everything else out there are just not up to par.
Go find a professional review that calls WOW "dumbed down". Can't find one? Maybe thats because its used as an immature insult=) Streamlining isn't dumbing down. WOW's classes are more diverse and require more attention and split sec reaction than anything from EQ. WOW's bosses are more complex. WOW's dungeons are more complex.
Once the elitist once teenage MMO veteran farts figure out that downtime, exp loss, naked corpse runs, 24hr spawn timers and forced grouping isn't complexity, the sooner they'll understand just why millions went to play WOW and left EQ and every other MMO in droves the day it released. Other MMOs emptied out and the players never returned. Doesn't that speak volumes?
EQ didn't require more brains to play. It just required a lot more time. The most complex parts of WOW destroy the most complex parts of EQ. Always have. Always will. WOW always was easy to play, but NOT easy to excell. EQ on the other hand was a PITA to play and NOT because it was complex or required brains. It was due to lousy design that didn't make sense and had no direction because the developer didn't even understand their own game.
I believe that WoW would be a better game without the addons.
it's dumbed down. the only review that matters in the end is my own. anyone with 60 minutes and a coke can gain a level.
I can do it in 30 with a Pepsi. Pepsi is OP.
I can do it in 30 with a Pepsi. Pepsi is OP.
there is a 3 year out there somewhere who can do it in 20 but she's not allowed sugar.
I can do it in 30 with a Pepsi. Pepsi is OP.
there is a 3 year out there somewhere who can do it in 20 but she's not allowed sugar.
Hello. Sugar free? Also, Let's not get off topic. Blah blah. WoW is awesome. Blah blah. WoW isn't awesome.
SWG would still be going strong and the NGE would have never happened.
WAR would have been designed first around open world RVR instead of battleground scenarios with the former tacked on.
EQ2 would still be difficult and challenging.
More games would have placed value on items such as deep crafting systems and player housing.
Balance between all classes wouldn't have been such an issue as it is today. No wait, yes it still would, people like to whine.
EVE would have ....300,000 paid subs.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
A skilled man jumps off a cliff and does a perfect dive into the ocean. TV cameras are there along with girls, fame and everything. This guy becomes a star.
You decide to do the same thing, you jump, and hit the side of a cliff. You barely survive and are paralyzed for life.
And you want to blame HIM?
That's funny last time I checked Ultima Online, Everquest, SWG, etc were all still running...odd I thought they were MMO's...
But if Blizzard was to pull the plug today it wouldn't matter one iota on the future of MMO gaming, Already companies are starting to look outside the WoW model (Which should really be called the EQ model) for something different. If WoW was to vanish something that's currently available would simply takes it's place on top of the sub ranking charts, while new games will continue to be pumped out.
Personally I don't like WoW, played the 14 day trial and said "WTF? This is EQ with a Paint Job" let the trail expire and never looked back. I still can not understand how it got what I like to call and "Applish fanatic following of fan-boys" Apple is a crap company that pushes a Linux Hybrid OS on over priced Hardware and when you strip away the Magical Fairy Farts, Blizzard has you guys huffing it's nothing more than a shined up customized EQ Clone nothing special at all about it.
I've read through most of the replies in this thread and won't try and dispute/affirm any of the posts but will simply give my input. Tho' I'm new to the site, I'm not new to mmo world. Like some of you (presumably), I started my mmo adventure back in 1999, with EQ.
The thing about EverQuest is that it was unforgiving, difficult, a timesink to the goddamned extreme...but it was also (arguably) the first of it's kind and it was challenging and above all, fun. So after like 5yrs of goodtimes on the Cazic-Thule, my interest started to wane. Just about my entire guild was starting to play wow and so I figured, what the hell. At first I didn't like the cartoonish graphics and the game seemed very simple. Over time I really began to enjoy the experience and appreciated that some of the frustrations prevalent in EQ were, in my mind, thoughtfully compensated for. Being able to solo, recovery time, travel time reduced etc. and overall the gameplay mechanics were smooth and the classes seemed balanced.
Wow also did something other mmos did not: the game made it very easy for just about anyone to play, ie no mmo experience needed. You can say what you want about the outdated graphics or the fact that EQ only peeked at like 400kish subscribers but the one thing everyone can probably agree on is that back in the day, it was one hardcore mmo. Not so much these days (I just started up again after a 5yr vacation from EQ), but you get the point. Wow got the girlfriends, the housewives, the stay at home moms and dads, hell, the grandparents and the grandchildren playing. Yes, there are still the hardcore gamers that started back in the day and the new kids that are what I like to call Generation XBOX, but overall Wow is still the casual gamers game. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have spread like a plague.
So as many people mentioned, Wow, has a fton of subscribers and this equates with success, right? On the basis that Wow was able to generate interest in areas of the population that otherwise would have never ever ventured into the realm of the mmo, then I say yes...without a doubt it has been a commercial success. Because Wow was able to peak at about 10 million subscriptions (15% were supposed to be gold farmers, but whatever) it opened up the mmo to, as it was said before, "companies that just want a piece of the pie".
I can't say that the mmo world would be a better place w/out Wow. I did drop my account about 6mos ago and haven't had the desire to play again. I just felt like the game ran its course for me and there wasn't much challenge to be had, pve wise. What I'm hoping for in the future (EQ3 *ahem*) is a game that will be for both the hardcore and casual gamer. If I could take the graphics of Vanguard with some of the challenges of EQ and combine it with the interest and population and pvp/pve content that World of Warcraft currently has to offer...that indeed would be one badass game.
-LT
You call I dumbing down, I call it streamline the more tedious part of the game so player can focus on the primary part of WoW which is the combat. Hell I am willing to bet that WoW boss fights are the most complex and interesting to day. Furthermore, I am willing to bet that WoW by far have the most intricate, balanced and functional PvP mechanic out of all the MMO out there. Hell, that the World of Warcraft feel more alive and have better animation than every other MMO out there. People are not that casual or stupid, they don't keep going back to a game because it is easy or familiar. They keep going back to the game because everything else out there are just not up to par.
Go find a professional review that calls WOW "dumbed down". Can't find one? Maybe thats because its used as an immature insult=) Streamlining isn't dumbing down. A usable interface and less bugs, isn't dumb either. WOW's classes are more diverse and require more attention and split sec reaction than anything from EQ. WOW's bosses are more complex. WOW's dungeons are more complex.
Once the elitist once teenage MMO veteran farts figure out that downtime, exp loss, naked corpse runs, 24hr spawn timers and forced grouping isn't complexity, the sooner they'll understand just why millions went to play WOW and left EQ and every other MMO in droves the day it released. Other MMOs emptied out and the players never returned. Doesn't that speak volumes?
EQ didn't require more brains to play. It just required a lot more time. The most complex parts of WOW destroy the most complex parts of EQ. Always have. Always will. WOW always was easy to play, but NOT easy to excell. EQ on the other hand was a PITA to play and NOT because it was complex or required brains. It was due to lousy design that didn't make sense and had no direction because the developer didn't even understand their own game.
If you really think for one second it takes skill or "brains" to excel in wow, you are a shallow fool. It is very much dumbed down, and the 80% of the wow population that are morons is living proof of it. Some of you chumps might actually keep coming back to wow because you think it isnt dumbed down, but most keep coming back to it because they cant survive in an environment that DOES actually require skill or brains.
Ultimately, most folks who havent already realized it will likely do so eventually, wow is a blessing. It keeps all the idiots pooled up and out of the way.
"Man will occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of the time he will pick himself up and continue on." - Winston Churchill
A skilled man jumps off a cliff and does a perfect dive into the ocean. TV cameras are there along with girls, fame and everything. This guy becomes a star.
You decide to do the same thing, you jump, and hit the side of a cliff. You barely survive and are paralyzed for life.
And you want to blame HIM?
man sticks his wiener in a bee hive and it doesn't get stung, another man does the same thing and gets it stung. point of this story dont stick you wiener in a bee hive.
Ok, I got the first analogy, but the second one doesn't make sense. What do beehives and penises have to do with MMOs?
This statement is false.
Your post reads like what those people who stalk movie stars say.
You don't know if WoW had an impact on your favorite games or not.
My theory is that companies made changes to games like swg and eq2 to cut customer service costs.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
WoW is an MMORPG on easy mode. It did away with everything that made an MMO challenging, and wrapped it all up in a pretty box.
People don't go back to WOW because it's that good...they do it because it's that easy. They can't comprehend concepts such as housing, complex crafting, and having to spend more than 30 minutes engaged in the same activity.
It's instant gratification, MMORPG style.
Really...where is the sense of accomplishment?? The sense of wonder as you travel the world, simply exploring? WoW leads you by the nose from one zone to another, from one quest to another, everything is thought out for you.
And here's the real kicker....before WoW, (and in other "niche" games since) there wre things to do in an MMORPG OTHER than combat!!!
People go back to WoW because other games are overwealming to them. They don't know what to do, and how to handle not being led from point A to point B....and Hell forbid that they should have to WALK there instead of teleporting.
As someone above me said....I was here before WoW. I remember how the industry used to be, and how fucking GREAT the games were. Every game was unique....and had it's own take on the "virtual world" concept that MMORPGs used to represent. We'd be better off without the huge multi-million dollar corporate cash-grabs that are churned out every year in an attempt to get a piece of the WoW pie.
MUCH better off.
In fact, even PNP RPGs have tried to clone WoW...look at the newest editions of AD&D. Makes me wanna vomit.
Your post reads like what those people who stalk movie stars say.
You don't know if WoW had an impact on your favorite games or not.
My theory is that companies made changes to games like swg and eq2 to cut customer service costs.
umm..when a game as complex as SWG was is stripped down, over-simplified, and turned into a quest grind, it's pretty fucking obvious what happened.
AND when reps are quoted as saying things such as "This is Star Wars....why doesn't it have more subs than WoW??" It's DAMN obvious what happened.