If you're sick of heavy-handed anti-piracy measures creeping their way into your games, get ready for a real shock. Beginning next month, PC games from top publisher Ubisoft will require a constant, uninterrupted Internet connection to play -- regardless of whether or not you're using any online functions. Debuting on upcoming PC releases Assassin's Creed 2 and Settlers VII, the new technology doesn't just require an initial online check-in like many current PC games. Without a live Internet link, you won't even be able to start the game, and if your connection drops while you're playing for any reason, you'll be kicked out of the game and potentially lose your progress. Dial-up users, needless to say, need not apply. PC Gamer's Tom Francis investigated, and wasn't pleased with his findings. "If you try to launch the game when you're not online, you hit an error message right away. So I tried a different test: start the game while online, play a little, then unplug my net cable. This is the same as what happens if your net connection drops momentarily, your router is rebooted, or the game loses its connection to Ubisoft's 'Master servers'. The game stopped, and I was dumped back to a menu screen - all my progress since it last autosaved was lost," he said in a blog posting. That's not the worst of it, either. If Ubisoft's servers go down or are unreachable, every single player of the game will be dumped out and won't be able to carry on playing until the problem is resolved. It's not the first time a major publisher has resorted to extreme measures in an attempt to prevent piracy. EA's 2008 release Spore came with anti-copying measures that seemed draconian at the time: it checked in with an EA server every ten days and limited the number of times you could install the game. A huge consumer backlash followed, and EA removed the offending tech -- but Spore still ended up as the year's most pirated game. Sadly, harsh anti-piracy measures like Ubisoft's inevitably end up hurting legitimate customers rather than the pirates at which they're aimed. Illegally downloaded versions of games generally have copy-protection methods like this removed entirely. Will you be buying games with Ubisoft's new anti-piracy tech? Original Linky videogames.yahoo.com/events/plugged-in/new-copy-protection-technology-outrages-gamers/1389931
Discuss...
PS ..looks like another disaster in the making
I wont buy or play these games anymore, it seems pc gaming as we know it slowly extinct:(
So im eather stuck with older games or free 2 play games by hobbyists.
I already refuse BIOSHOCK 2 i wont buy it.
So they lose not me lol.
And im hoping always small independed developers won't go for this crap like what EA/UBISOFT/2K/bethesda and so many others will do, no money from me hehe.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Seriously, this doesn't stop pirating, it just slaps all their loyal customers in the face.
PRIVATESERVERWHAT
Not only does it not deter piracy, it actually it promotes it.
A lot of people refuse to buy DRM ridden games, only to download cracked versions that are stripped of said DRM. There are people that would have otherwise paid for a legitimate copy of the game if it were not laced with DRM.
Which is ironic really, because for all of the time, effort, and money it costs a company to think up new ways to try to force people to conform to their standards, it only takes one to a few people to undo all of that work in a fraction of the time in the form of a crack.
The overwhelming research on the topic shows that DRM has very minimal impact in detering piracy, yet has noticeable negative impact on legitimate software use. Furthermore the cost of developing and/or licensing said DRM also raises software costs, which are passed directly onto the paying customer. It's a vicious circle really, as the more intrusive DRM becomes, the stronger the piracy becomes to counteract it.
Ive build a collection of games over years for my pc all legal bought in shops around 150 games i still have (lost some over years) from mid 90's and thats why i refuse buying DRM games or online only but that won't mean im gonne dl cracked versions then im as bad as those who done this all these years i dont go that road never.
My action towards DRM always wins companys lose becouse i dont give them my money thats best way to fight them.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Not only does it not deter piracy, it actually it promotes it. A lot of people refuse to buy DRM ridden games, only to download cracked versions that are stripped of said DRM. There are people that would have otherwise paid for a legitimate copy of the game if it were not laced with DRM. Which is ironic really, because for all of the time, effort, and money it costs a company to think up new ways to try to force people to conform to their standards, it only takes one to a few people to undo all of that work in a fraction of the time in the form of a crack. The overwhelming research on the topic shows that DRM has very minimal impact in detering piracy, yet has noticeable negative impact on legitimate software use. Furthermore the cost of developing and/or licensing said DRM also raises software costs, which are passed directly onto the paying customer. It's a vicious circle really, as the more intrusive DRM becomes, the stronger the piracy becomes to counteract it.
The problem is our community, computer gamers, promote piracy themsselves. Even most of the people that do not pirate enable it by a culture of silence and looking the other way.
If the gaming community put as much effort into speaking out against piracy as they do speakin g out against protection we would see less piracy.
If it takes that to stop or seriously hurt piracy i'm all for it. Seriously, if you can afford a computer or a game console, a basic internet connection cost is what compared to that ? It's not like we're in the early 90's anymore when internet connection was charged by the minutes. A basic internet connection today cost what now ? 15$ a month ? And most peoples have high speed, so i dont see why this is a problem.
Your completely missing point here lol.
I bought sinds mid 90's all my pc games legal and this priracy system DRM stops me from buying games anymore.
I was last week in shop read back of BIOSHOCK 2 and said to shopkeeper sorry but this game i wont buy becouse of DRM and limited install.
Companys lose not me:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Not only does it not deter piracy, it actually it promotes it. A lot of people refuse to buy DRM ridden games, only to download cracked versions that are stripped of said DRM. There are people that would have otherwise paid for a legitimate copy of the game if it were not laced with DRM. Which is ironic really, because for all of the time, effort, and money it costs a company to think up new ways to try to force people to conform to their standards, it only takes one to a few people to undo all of that work in a fraction of the time in the form of a crack. The overwhelming research on the topic shows that DRM has very minimal impact in detering piracy, yet has noticeable negative impact on legitimate software use. Furthermore the cost of developing and/or licensing said DRM also raises software costs, which are passed directly onto the paying customer. It's a vicious circle really, as the more intrusive DRM becomes, the stronger the piracy becomes to counteract it.
The problem is our community, computer gamers, promote piracy themsselves. Even most of the people that do not pirate enable it by a culture of silence and looking the other way.
If the gaming community put as much effort into speaking out against piracy as they do speakin g out against protection we would see less piracy.
I got some friends who dl all games for free they all know i never do this im only one with all my games original ive discussed it alot with them and they sometimes agree but there collection still grows with priracy games lol they just dont listend or care.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
oh man, the pirates will have a field day with these types of games. way to seal your own fate ubisoft. this should be a messin with sasquatch commercial.
sasquatch purchases ac2 and loses connection in his foresty home...
ubisoft employees are laughing and watching from a distance.
sasquatch, enraged commences to sling laughing employees into trees.
The problem is our community, computer gamers, promote piracy themsselves. Even most of the people that do not pirate enable it by a culture of silence and looking the other way. If the gaming community put as much effort into speaking out against piracy as they do speakin g out against protection we would see less piracy.
I got some friends who dl all games for free they all know i never do this im only one with all my games original ive discussed it alot with them and they sometimes agree but there collection still grows with priracy games lol they just dont listend or care.
Okay so you took step one and talked to them about this, good for you. However is that all you have done? My friends that have pirated versions of games I will not play that game with online. At LAN Parties I will not participate in games with people that have pirated games. In fact I have been to a few LAN parties of late that will not people play unless they can prove ownership of the games. They still drew good crowds.
I even take this into my business. I will not work on a PC with a pirated OS and will make no attempt to save pirates files during my work. When a friend has pirated material and starts to talk about it I ask why he enjoys being a common thief and then change the subject.
You are right this is a hard road to hoe and we will be a while fighting it. This culture did not spring up over night. However to dismiss it as to hard to fight or not worth the effort makes us a guilty as those stealing the material.
I agree most DRMs are a mess but when we openly oppose DRM efforts and sit nearly silent about piracy we are guilty of enabling it.
The problem is our community, computer gamers, promote piracy themsselves. Even most of the people that do not pirate enable it by a culture of silence and looking the other way. If the gaming community put as much effort into speaking out against piracy as they do speakin g out against protection we would see less piracy.
I got some friends who dl all games for free they all know i never do this im only one with all my games original ive discussed it alot with them and they sometimes agree but there collection still grows with priracy games lol they just dont listend or care.
Okay so you took step one and talked to them about this, good for you. However is that all you have done? My friends that have pirated versions of games I will not play that game with online. At LAN Parties I will not participate in games with people that have pirated games. In fact I have been to a few LAN parties of late that will not people play unless they can prove ownership of the games. They still drew good crowds.
I even take this into my business. I will not work on a PC with a pirated OS and will make no attempt to save pirates files during my work. When a friend has pirated material and starts to talk about it I ask why he enjoys being a common thief and then change the subject.
You are right this is a hard road to hoe and we will be a while fighting it. This culture did not spring up over night. However to dismiss it as to hard to fight or not worth the effort makes us a guilty as those stealing the material.
I agree most DRMs are a mess but when we openly oppose DRM efforts and sit nearly silent about piracy we are guilty of enabling it.
good, good, you are doing something you think is right and good for you, but we are not saying piracy is ok, we are saying on they way of thinking it hurt and annoy people like you who bough the game, you for intance can only intall some game only 3 times,(if you are like me when don't play games unistall then but then after 3 months hey I want to play again install again several times), and a lot of my games are imported with NO suport here for then (or no longer suported) so what you do? or you just let you copy stay in a shelf or you crack it so you can play something you pay for.
and for the lan party you can bet not only you do then and some people don't care if his copy is original or no.
the fact here is like I said before this new DRM will only hurt the buyer not who go and take a "unnoficial" copy of the game, because the unnoficial will NOT have that hassle, myself I don't buy game with this kind of DRM, the only mistake I did was with mass effect I don't read and just bough it because some friends say it was fun, lesson learned I never buy anything else without read all the thing even when I know my PC will pass the reqs.
it was said before who go for piracy don't care for original if they can take the pirated copy they do, if not they will not buy the game and a lot of the pirated copy are of older, not easy or impossible to find anymore, another motive because they have old computers.
and if we don't oppose abusive DRM openly nothing will change, we need to yell and not buy games, softwares with this kind of abusive technlogy, who in the end it will only hurt us, people who want to play a fun game.
This sort of stuff really frustrates me as a paying customer. I prefer PC games, because you can usually get patches for PC games; I have yet to find an Xbox 360 game that reliably issued patches, even if the game itself was sold with bugs up the yazoo. Furthermore, many PC games have modding communities that turn what would be "so-so" games into "can't miss" games, or dramatically increase the lifespan and entertainment value of games that had a strong foundation to begin with.
Unfortunately, all of the PC-related security nonsense has me moving more and more towards console games. When I do purchase console games, I usually (and unhappily) buy used copies, simply because I know what I'm losing by making that switch; no mods and no patches = an inferior experience, and therefore not worth a premium price. A good business transaction is one that leaves both parties satisfied, but if anyone's feeling satisfaction from this whole DRM thing, it's definitely not me. I feel like I'm getting screwed everywhere I turn: I get a game with less features (mods and patches) long after it's released for less money ($19.95), or I get a game with less features (limited installs, no offline gameplay, limited lifespan due to dependency on third-party support) for more money ($60.00 + tax). It's a no-win situation for the consumer.
Frankly, if I were tech-savvy enough to pirate games that had excessive DRMs, I might flirt with the idea just to express some of the outrage I feel as a betrayed customer. I never, ever would've even considered that a few years ago (the concept of piracy didn't exist in my mind when I was happy with my purchases), but the nasty limitations/intrusions they included with Spore, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, and even the Sims 2 all had me extremely frustrated because I wanted to play them, I wanted to pay for them, but I was completely unwilling to put up with the garbage they felt compelled to assault me with: potential hardware damage, online activation checks, limited installs, you name it. I felt completely devalued as a customer, and that's a poor way to make sales, let alone establish brand loyalty.
As it stands, I don't have confidence in the security of my system to download strange pirate torrents, I don't have the tech experience required to pirate things myself, I don't have a strong enough desire to play any game to learn to be a pirate and, perhaps most importantly, even if I did have any of those things, what I don't have is the stomach to do something I consider to be unethical and immoral. I'm a 39-year-old woman with a love of video games and a strong moral center who can barely update video drivers without setting something on fire, so my options are pretty damned limited.
What are those options? The only two that seem be available to me are:
A) Withholding my purchases while associating brands with little "betrayal boxes" in my mind.
and/or
Buying bargain-basement used games on consoles to deny companies as much of my money as I can while still getting some sort of entertainment experience.
I hate doing that last thing, though, because it pushes development away from a superior platform to a platform I don't want to support, but it feels like the only choice I'm left with if I want to play games. It's all so...so...exasperating. Why did paying cash for well-made, AAA games get so difficult? For a moment there, I almost typed in "Thank God for MMOs," but that made me start thinking about the shift to the micropayment model, which sends me into another emotional tailspin of an entirely different sort. I'd better just stick with "damned DRMs and their fun-destructive functions!"
I've raged about this on a few board already...as most have noted, it's really just hurting legitmate customers in the present (no access or spotty access, whether in the military of just on a plane) and the future (both in terms of resale value as well as soon to be retro-gaming when you pick up that game 5 years from now and no server/patch is available from the company).
An interesting link someone on the City of Heroes boards posted is Valve's take on "piracy": they see it as a business model issue and that pirates are underserved customers. Valve
1. Digital copying ain't stealing. You don't take anythink away, you copy.
Successfull attempt at trying to make you feel bad for not parting with your money.
2.Cost efficiency -corps aka digging their own grave
Buying means you get a game instantly by exchanging time in form of money for it. Pirating takes a lot more time investment, can give legal issues (can as not in all countrys) and is of course free in terms of money if you dont consider the cost for running your rig / internet connection. Now when does buying make sense? In a financial sense when getting the illegal copy is more expensive as buying it at the store. If you earn 30 buks/hour you likely will be cheaper with buying it as finding a copy on the net and downloading it often takes over 2 hours.
But now we have spyware, rootkits and worse included in our games. Getting rid of that junk requires looking at the pirate sites -so you become familiar with them even if you buy legal games. Now that tips the scale. Buying becomes financially unatractive through their "security measures" as pirated copys come free of that kind of data garbage.
Btw i dont own anything pirated but i don't buy anything with rootkits and / or spyware. And i favour those who pirate such games way above those who give in and buy games with pc cancer cause that just means for companies that they will go on with their game with cancer tm included
2.Cost efficiency -corps aka digging their own grave Buying means you get a game instantly by exchanging time in form of money for it. Pirating takes a lot more time investment, can give legal issues (can as not in all countrys) and is of course free in terms of money if you dont consider the cost for running your rig / internet connection. Now when does buying make sense? In a financial sense when getting the illegal copy is more expensive as buying it at the store. If you earn 30 buks/hour you likely will be cheaper with buying it as finding a copy on the net and downloading it often takes over 2 hours.
Just a few points as to how you explain cost.
Pirating for the end-user involves choosing to download an item which, beyond clicking download (or some relatively simple task) does not take much active investment. In fact, the user can click download and go to bed. Therefore, the 2 hours would be spent during otherwise non-revenue generating time for that person. So to say it costs "2 hours", as an example, is a bit inaccurate as the active time cost is significantly lower. Other time spent on installing would be comparable to the time spent for a legit purchase (with applying a crack or running a key gen taking a few moments longer).
Other costs, such as running a rig, are implied either way. I mean, if you are acquiring a game legally or not, it stands to reason you are running a computer anyhow, so that cannot really be factored into an evaluation of cost differences. Now, Internet connection, you could have a point on...I mean...unless some company were to require you to have a constant internet connection for a single-player game right? But what are the chances? :P
Really, the pirated game will typically be more attractive cost wise, however, the ethical and legal issues can certainly make the legit copy more attractive for people. Excessive DRM, however, will certainly tip the scale in favor of the pirated copy (in my opinion).
Anyhow, just my nitpicking 2 cents...carry on
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
2.Cost efficiency -corps aka digging their own grave Buying means you get a game instantly by exchanging time in form of money for it. Pirating takes a lot more time investment, can give legal issues (can as not in all countrys) and is of course free in terms of money if you dont consider the cost for running your rig / internet connection. Now when does buying make sense? In a financial sense when getting the illegal copy is more expensive as buying it at the store. If you earn 30 buks/hour you likely will be cheaper with buying it as finding a copy on the net and downloading it often takes over 2 hours.
Just a few points as to how you explain cost.
Pirating for the end-user involves choosing to download an item which, beyond clicking download (or some relatively simple task) does not take much active investment. In fact, the user can click download and go to bed. Therefore, the 2 hours would be spent during otherwise non-revenue generating time for that person. So to say it costs "2 hours", as an example, is a bit inaccurate as the active time cost is significantly lower. Other time spent on installing would be comparable to the time spent for a legit purchase (with applying a crack or running a key gen taking a few moments longer).
Other costs, such as running a rig, are implied either way. I mean, if you are acquiring a game legally or not, it stands to reason you are running a computer anyhow, so that cannot really be factored into an evaluation of cost differences. Now, Internet connection, you could have a point on...I mean...unless some company were to require you to have a constant internet connection for a single-player game right? But what are the chances? :P
Really, the pirated game will typically be more attractive cost wise, however, the ethical and legal issues can certainly make the legit copy more attractive for people. Excessive DRM, however, will certainly tip the scale in favor of the pirated copy (in my opinion).
Anyhow, just my nitpicking 2 cents...carry on
umm while both statements have merit to their views... you both fail to take in to account. unlike legally bought games, pirated games can and do come with viruses, require extra time to find no-cd cracks (unless you get an ISO and burn it to a blank disk)
as well as having to find a Keygen (that doesnt set off virus alarms or is loaded with keyloggers or other undelightful garbage)
and spend the time setting your PC to run the game correctly without it crashing all the time.
then after all that, you have to worry about a patch coming out that voids all that work you just did, and causing you to have to redo it all over again.
so ultimately a legal game disk is better costs wise in time and problems, while a pirated is cheaper actual cost wise.
neither is exactly a perfect setup. as pirated games cost companies money, and there by imcrease their anti-piracy and costs. making legal games more of a pain to buy and actually use... which brings us back to pirated games...
its basicly an infinity equasion..... as pirated games become more "main stream" more main stream games become heavier anti-pirate.. which causes more piracy of that game (to remove A-P software ect) so ofcourse it becomes pirated more.. lol
umm while both statements have merit to their views... you both fail to take in to account. unlike legally bought games, pirated games can and do come with viruses, require extra time to find no-cd cracks (unless you get an ISO and burn it to a blank disk)
as well as having to find a Keygen (that doesnt set off virus alarms or is loaded with keyloggers or other undelightful garbage)
and spend the time setting your PC to run the game correctly without it crashing all the time. then after all that, you have to worry about a patch coming out that voids all that work you just did, and causing you to have to redo it all over again. so ultimately a legal game disk is better costs wise in time and problems, while a pirated is cheaper actual cost wise.
neither is exactly a perfect setup. as pirated games cost companies money, and there by imcrease their anti-piracy and costs. making legal games more of a pain to buy and actually use... which brings us back to pirated games... its basicly an infinity equasion..... as pirated games become more "main stream" more main stream games become heavier anti-pirate.. which causes more piracy of that game (to remove A-P software ect) so ofcourse it becomes pirated more.. lol
Don't get me wrong, I was just working with the idea of cost that was provided and not trying to present a comprehensive breakdown. There is a whole business dedicated to analyzing that kind of data/behavior and even they can't agree at what point piracy becomes more attractive. Now you can argue that some of that is willful ignorance, but certainly, it is a broader topic then one or two paragraphs could address.
It does become a circular argument though; Game gets pirated, Game company tries to stop piracy, more people pirate game, wash hands, repeat. It's certainly comes across as an arms race in which the paying customer is becoming collateral damage.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I've raged about this on a few board already...as most have noted, it's really just hurting legitmate customers in the present (no access or spotty access, whether in the military of just on a plane) and the future (both in terms of resale value as well as soon to be retro-gaming when you pick up that game 5 years from now and no server/patch is available from the company). An interesting link someone on the City of Heroes boards posted is Valve's take on "piracy": they see it as a business model issue and that pirates are underserved customers. Valve
Just wanted to say thanks for that link. Very interesting look on it. As for this whole DRM thing with Ubisoft. Personally I think they are going the wrong way. No one here is really condoning piracy. More or less, people that buy the game through legal means, don't want to be punished. Like so many people have pointed out already. You aren't hurting the pirates, you are hurting the customers that pay for the game. No one is suggesting that you should stop trying to combat piracy, just be careful about the means you choose to use in that effort. You can only slap an ally so many times before that ally becomes an enemy. Or rather in this case someone that just won't buy your games. Because right now I know I won't be buying Assassins Creed 2 because of this.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
lucky for me i don't like ubisoft, so i wouldn't buy there games anyways. =D
idk though, it does seem to be getting out of control. i don't pirate and never will, but i've met a lot of people that do pirate. it is kind of unfair that these people get there games free, while the rest of us pay for them. but i'm really not up on the whole pirating thing, so this is just my 2 cents.
I've raged about this on a few board already...as most have noted, it's really just hurting legitmate customers in the present (no access or spotty access, whether in the military of just on a plane) and the future (both in terms of resale value as well as soon to be retro-gaming when you pick up that game 5 years from now and no server/patch is available from the company). An interesting link someone on the City of Heroes boards posted is Valve's take on "piracy": they see it as a business model issue and that pirates are underserved customers. Valve
Just wanted to say thanks for that link. Very interesting look on it.
No problem --I thought it was a good read too. For those who didn't read it, basically Valve experimented by cutting costs on a game and capturing the sales results. In the end, a 75% discount to the price resulted in a 1470% increase in sales revenue, which in turn still resulted in a 15% increase to net income over sales at the original price. A neat way to lure in those opting to go the illegal download path...
Originally posted by Proson That is kinda lame, but dosent really affect me as i never play single player games, thats fucking boring. i only play online.
So now you will be able to play single player games online They made you a favor
I never understand why companies do this because it does not hurt the pirates...
I myself download Pirated stuff, like others I use it as a demo. I downloaded Spore and liked it so I bought it, but I still only run the Pirated version so I do not have to worry about the stupid DRM on it. I also did the same for Crysis, well pretty much all of the legit games I own started out as pirated copies that I went out and bought.
don't these companies understand that the games are generally cracked the first 24 hours after release. why put so much effort into a system that does not work, the crackers will always be better than the DRM...
I never understand why companies do this because it does not hurt the pirates... I myself download Pirated stuff, like others I use it as a demo. I downloaded Spore and liked it so I bought it, but I still only run the Pirated version so I do not have to worry about the stupid DRM on it. I also did the same for Crysis, well pretty much all of the legit games I own started out as pirated copies that I went out and bought. don't these companies understand that the games are generally cracked the first 24 hours after release. why put so much effort into a system that does not work, the crackers will always be better than the DRM...
Using the excuse that pirating is another form of demoing is ridiculous though. Regardless if you like a game or not, people doing this are getting value (being entertained) from a game experience that a company invested resources in to create, without paying for it. Say you play Spore for 15 hours and decide you don't want to buy it after all. That's still 15 hours of entertainment you got, regardless if you didn't feel it was good enough at the end, at the expense of the developer whose work was not compensated for.
It's basically a false sense of entitlement that anything you don't like isn't worth paying for, regardless if you use it.
See the problem is that I rarely will go out and buy a single player game anymore. All of the ones I do buy are ones I have downloaded and liked. So for me in this instance, right or wrong, I would not buy any games other than MMORPG's if it were not for pirating.
Most games if I do not like them rarely see more than 30 minutes of play. I have bout games, installed them, then quickly uninstalled them and tossed the game because it sucked IMHO.
I do not feel like there is any sort of entitlement , and we can probably go back and for with reasons on both sides for a very long time. its just the fact that this sort of DRM hurts the people that do not Pirate and does not hurt the Pirates themselves.
See the problem is that I rarely will go out and buy a single player game anymore. All of the ones I do buy are ones I have downloaded and liked. So for me in this instance, right or wrong, I would not buy any games other than MMORPG's if it were not for pirating.
That illustrates my point though -- what about single-players games people such as yourself download but don't like? You're trying to make it sound like you're being a good consumer going out of your way to buy this game after trying your pirate-demo but glossing over the fact that you're not buying games you did play too (but just didn't happen to like).
See the problem is that I rarely will go out and buy a single player game anymore. All of the ones I do buy are ones I have downloaded and liked. So for me in this instance, right or wrong, I would not buy any games other than MMORPG's if it were not for pirating.
That illustrates my point though -- what about single-players games people such as yourself download but don't like? You're trying to make it sound like you're being a good consumer going out of your way to buy this game after trying your pirate-demo but glossing over the fact that you're not buying games you did play too (but just didn't happen to like).
I am not trying to make myself look like a good consumer, I am just tired of forking out $50 for a crappy game. I am not some huge game down loader, so why you pick me to go at with is beyond me, the last game I downloaded was spore... I spend almost all of my time playing MMO's I rarely play single player games any more.
You make it sound like I go get every game that is released to "demo" it, but I could careless about 90% of the garbage that they release and dare to put the title of "Game" on it. like Crysis, what 3 hours of play time for $50 just for pretty graphics....
See the problem is that I rarely will go out and buy a single player game anymore. All of the ones I do buy are ones I have downloaded and liked. So for me in this instance, right or wrong, I would not buy any games other than MMORPG's if it were not for pirating.
That illustrates my point though -- what about single-players games people such as yourself download but don't like? You're trying to make it sound like you're being a good consumer going out of your way to buy this game after trying your pirate-demo but glossing over the fact that you're not buying games you did play too (but just didn't happen to like).
Well the perfect customer is the one who buys everything regardless of quality or if he likes it.
Comments
I wont buy or play these games anymore, it seems pc gaming as we know it slowly extinct:(
So im eather stuck with older games or free 2 play games by hobbyists.
I already refuse BIOSHOCK 2 i wont buy it.
So they lose not me lol.
And im hoping always small independed developers won't go for this crap like what EA/UBISOFT/2K/bethesda and so many others will do, no money from me hehe.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Not only does it not deter piracy, it actually it promotes it.
A lot of people refuse to buy DRM ridden games, only to download cracked versions that are stripped of said DRM. There are people that would have otherwise paid for a legitimate copy of the game if it were not laced with DRM.
Which is ironic really, because for all of the time, effort, and money it costs a company to think up new ways to try to force people to conform to their standards, it only takes one to a few people to undo all of that work in a fraction of the time in the form of a crack.
The overwhelming research on the topic shows that DRM has very minimal impact in detering piracy, yet has noticeable negative impact on legitimate software use. Furthermore the cost of developing and/or licensing said DRM also raises software costs, which are passed directly onto the paying customer. It's a vicious circle really, as the more intrusive DRM becomes, the stronger the piracy becomes to counteract it.
Ive build a collection of games over years for my pc all legal bought in shops around 150 games i still have (lost some over years) from mid 90's and thats why i refuse buying DRM games or online only but that won't mean im gonne dl cracked versions then im as bad as those who done this all these years i dont go that road never.
My action towards DRM always wins companys lose becouse i dont give them my money thats best way to fight them.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The problem is our community, computer gamers, promote piracy themsselves. Even most of the people that do not pirate enable it by a culture of silence and looking the other way.
If the gaming community put as much effort into speaking out against piracy as they do speakin g out against protection we would see less piracy.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
Your completely missing point here lol.
I bought sinds mid 90's all my pc games legal and this priracy system DRM stops me from buying games anymore.
I was last week in shop read back of BIOSHOCK 2 and said to shopkeeper sorry but this game i wont buy becouse of DRM and limited install.
Companys lose not me:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
The problem is our community, computer gamers, promote piracy themsselves. Even most of the people that do not pirate enable it by a culture of silence and looking the other way.
If the gaming community put as much effort into speaking out against piracy as they do speakin g out against protection we would see less piracy.
I got some friends who dl all games for free they all know i never do this im only one with all my games original ive discussed it alot with them and they sometimes agree but there collection still grows with priracy games lol they just dont listend or care.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
oh man, the pirates will have a field day with these types of games. way to seal your own fate ubisoft. this should be a messin with sasquatch commercial.
sasquatch purchases ac2 and loses connection in his foresty home...
ubisoft employees are laughing and watching from a distance.
sasquatch, enraged commences to sling laughing employees into trees.
I got some friends who dl all games for free they all know i never do this im only one with all my games original ive discussed it alot with them and they sometimes agree but there collection still grows with priracy games lol they just dont listend or care.
Okay so you took step one and talked to them about this, good for you. However is that all you have done? My friends that have pirated versions of games I will not play that game with online. At LAN Parties I will not participate in games with people that have pirated games. In fact I have been to a few LAN parties of late that will not people play unless they can prove ownership of the games. They still drew good crowds.
I even take this into my business. I will not work on a PC with a pirated OS and will make no attempt to save pirates files during my work. When a friend has pirated material and starts to talk about it I ask why he enjoys being a common thief and then change the subject.
You are right this is a hard road to hoe and we will be a while fighting it. This culture did not spring up over night. However to dismiss it as to hard to fight or not worth the effort makes us a guilty as those stealing the material.
I agree most DRMs are a mess but when we openly oppose DRM efforts and sit nearly silent about piracy we are guilty of enabling it.
=============================
I have a soap box and I am not afraid to use it.
I got some friends who dl all games for free they all know i never do this im only one with all my games original ive discussed it alot with them and they sometimes agree but there collection still grows with priracy games lol they just dont listend or care.
Okay so you took step one and talked to them about this, good for you. However is that all you have done? My friends that have pirated versions of games I will not play that game with online. At LAN Parties I will not participate in games with people that have pirated games. In fact I have been to a few LAN parties of late that will not people play unless they can prove ownership of the games. They still drew good crowds.
I even take this into my business. I will not work on a PC with a pirated OS and will make no attempt to save pirates files during my work. When a friend has pirated material and starts to talk about it I ask why he enjoys being a common thief and then change the subject.
You are right this is a hard road to hoe and we will be a while fighting it. This culture did not spring up over night. However to dismiss it as to hard to fight or not worth the effort makes us a guilty as those stealing the material.
I agree most DRMs are a mess but when we openly oppose DRM efforts and sit nearly silent about piracy we are guilty of enabling it.
good, good, you are doing something you think is right and good for you, but we are not saying piracy is ok, we are saying on they way of thinking it hurt and annoy people like you who bough the game, you for intance can only intall some game only 3 times,(if you are like me when don't play games unistall then but then after 3 months hey I want to play again install again several times), and a lot of my games are imported with NO suport here for then (or no longer suported) so what you do? or you just let you copy stay in a shelf or you crack it so you can play something you pay for.
and for the lan party you can bet not only you do then and some people don't care if his copy is original or no.
the fact here is like I said before this new DRM will only hurt the buyer not who go and take a "unnoficial" copy of the game, because the unnoficial will NOT have that hassle, myself I don't buy game with this kind of DRM, the only mistake I did was with mass effect I don't read and just bough it because some friends say it was fun, lesson learned I never buy anything else without read all the thing even when I know my PC will pass the reqs.
it was said before who go for piracy don't care for original if they can take the pirated copy they do, if not they will not buy the game and a lot of the pirated copy are of older, not easy or impossible to find anymore, another motive because they have old computers.
and if we don't oppose abusive DRM openly nothing will change, we need to yell and not buy games, softwares with this kind of abusive technlogy, who in the end it will only hurt us, people who want to play a fun game.
[WARNING: MASSIVE WALL OF TEXT FOLLOWS]
This sort of stuff really frustrates me as a paying customer. I prefer PC games, because you can usually get patches for PC games; I have yet to find an Xbox 360 game that reliably issued patches, even if the game itself was sold with bugs up the yazoo. Furthermore, many PC games have modding communities that turn what would be "so-so" games into "can't miss" games, or dramatically increase the lifespan and entertainment value of games that had a strong foundation to begin with.
Unfortunately, all of the PC-related security nonsense has me moving more and more towards console games. When I do purchase console games, I usually (and unhappily) buy used copies, simply because I know what I'm losing by making that switch; no mods and no patches = an inferior experience, and therefore not worth a premium price. A good business transaction is one that leaves both parties satisfied, but if anyone's feeling satisfaction from this whole DRM thing, it's definitely not me. I feel like I'm getting screwed everywhere I turn: I get a game with less features (mods and patches) long after it's released for less money ($19.95), or I get a game with less features (limited installs, no offline gameplay, limited lifespan due to dependency on third-party support) for more money ($60.00 + tax). It's a no-win situation for the consumer.
Frankly, if I were tech-savvy enough to pirate games that had excessive DRMs, I might flirt with the idea just to express some of the outrage I feel as a betrayed customer. I never, ever would've even considered that a few years ago (the concept of piracy didn't exist in my mind when I was happy with my purchases), but the nasty limitations/intrusions they included with Spore, Fallout 3, Mass Effect, and even the Sims 2 all had me extremely frustrated because I wanted to play them, I wanted to pay for them, but I was completely unwilling to put up with the garbage they felt compelled to assault me with: potential hardware damage, online activation checks, limited installs, you name it. I felt completely devalued as a customer, and that's a poor way to make sales, let alone establish brand loyalty.
As it stands, I don't have confidence in the security of my system to download strange pirate torrents, I don't have the tech experience required to pirate things myself, I don't have a strong enough desire to play any game to learn to be a pirate and, perhaps most importantly, even if I did have any of those things, what I don't have is the stomach to do something I consider to be unethical and immoral. I'm a 39-year-old woman with a love of video games and a strong moral center who can barely update video drivers without setting something on fire, so my options are pretty damned limited.
What are those options? The only two that seem be available to me are:
and/or
I hate doing that last thing, though, because it pushes development away from a superior platform to a platform I don't want to support, but it feels like the only choice I'm left with if I want to play games. It's all so...so...exasperating. Why did paying cash for well-made, AAA games get so difficult? For a moment there, I almost typed in "Thank God for MMOs," but that made me start thinking about the shift to the micropayment model, which sends me into another emotional tailspin of an entirely different sort. I'd better just stick with "damned DRMs and their fun-destructive functions!"
I've raged about this on a few board already...as most have noted, it's really just hurting legitmate customers in the present (no access or spotty access, whether in the military of just on a plane) and the future (both in terms of resale value as well as soon to be retro-gaming when you pick up that game 5 years from now and no server/patch is available from the company).
An interesting link someone on the City of Heroes boards posted is Valve's take on "piracy": they see it as a business model issue and that pirates are underserved customers. Valve
Lets face the facts:
1. Digital copying ain't stealing. You don't take anythink away, you copy.
Successfull attempt at trying to make you feel bad for not parting with your money.
2.Cost efficiency -corps aka digging their own grave
Buying means you get a game instantly by exchanging time in form of money for it. Pirating takes a lot more time investment, can give legal issues (can as not in all countrys) and is of course free in terms of money if you dont consider the cost for running your rig / internet connection. Now when does buying make sense? In a financial sense when getting the illegal copy is more expensive as buying it at the store. If you earn 30 buks/hour you likely will be cheaper with buying it as finding a copy on the net and downloading it often takes over 2 hours.
But now we have spyware, rootkits and worse included in our games. Getting rid of that junk requires looking at the pirate sites -so you become familiar with them even if you buy legal games. Now that tips the scale. Buying becomes financially unatractive through their "security measures" as pirated copys come free of that kind of data garbage.
Btw i dont own anything pirated but i don't buy anything with rootkits and / or spyware. And i favour those who pirate such games way above those who give in and buy games with pc cancer cause that just means for companies that they will go on with their game with cancer tm included
[Mod Edit]
Pi*1337/100 = 42
Just a few points as to how you explain cost.
Pirating for the end-user involves choosing to download an item which, beyond clicking download (or some relatively simple task) does not take much active investment. In fact, the user can click download and go to bed. Therefore, the 2 hours would be spent during otherwise non-revenue generating time for that person. So to say it costs "2 hours", as an example, is a bit inaccurate as the active time cost is significantly lower. Other time spent on installing would be comparable to the time spent for a legit purchase (with applying a crack or running a key gen taking a few moments longer).
Other costs, such as running a rig, are implied either way. I mean, if you are acquiring a game legally or not, it stands to reason you are running a computer anyhow, so that cannot really be factored into an evaluation of cost differences. Now, Internet connection, you could have a point on...I mean...unless some company were to require you to have a constant internet connection for a single-player game right? But what are the chances? :P
Really, the pirated game will typically be more attractive cost wise, however, the ethical and legal issues can certainly make the legit copy more attractive for people. Excessive DRM, however, will certainly tip the scale in favor of the pirated copy (in my opinion).
Anyhow, just my nitpicking 2 cents...carry on
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Just a few points as to how you explain cost.
Pirating for the end-user involves choosing to download an item which, beyond clicking download (or some relatively simple task) does not take much active investment. In fact, the user can click download and go to bed. Therefore, the 2 hours would be spent during otherwise non-revenue generating time for that person. So to say it costs "2 hours", as an example, is a bit inaccurate as the active time cost is significantly lower. Other time spent on installing would be comparable to the time spent for a legit purchase (with applying a crack or running a key gen taking a few moments longer).
Other costs, such as running a rig, are implied either way. I mean, if you are acquiring a game legally or not, it stands to reason you are running a computer anyhow, so that cannot really be factored into an evaluation of cost differences. Now, Internet connection, you could have a point on...I mean...unless some company were to require you to have a constant internet connection for a single-player game right? But what are the chances? :P
Really, the pirated game will typically be more attractive cost wise, however, the ethical and legal issues can certainly make the legit copy more attractive for people. Excessive DRM, however, will certainly tip the scale in favor of the pirated copy (in my opinion).
Anyhow, just my nitpicking 2 cents...carry on
umm while both statements have merit to their views... you both fail to take in to account. unlike legally bought games, pirated games can and do come with viruses, require extra time to find no-cd cracks (unless you get an ISO and burn it to a blank disk)
as well as having to find a Keygen (that doesnt set off virus alarms or is loaded with keyloggers or other undelightful garbage)
and spend the time setting your PC to run the game correctly without it crashing all the time.
then after all that, you have to worry about a patch coming out that voids all that work you just did, and causing you to have to redo it all over again.
so ultimately a legal game disk is better costs wise in time and problems, while a pirated is cheaper actual cost wise.
neither is exactly a perfect setup. as pirated games cost companies money, and there by imcrease their anti-piracy and costs. making legal games more of a pain to buy and actually use... which brings us back to pirated games...
its basicly an infinity equasion..... as pirated games become more "main stream" more main stream games become heavier anti-pirate.. which causes more piracy of that game (to remove A-P software ect) so ofcourse it becomes pirated more.. lol
Don't get me wrong, I was just working with the idea of cost that was provided and not trying to present a comprehensive breakdown. There is a whole business dedicated to analyzing that kind of data/behavior and even they can't agree at what point piracy becomes more attractive. Now you can argue that some of that is willful ignorance, but certainly, it is a broader topic then one or two paragraphs could address.
It does become a circular argument though; Game gets pirated, Game company tries to stop piracy, more people pirate game, wash hands, repeat. It's certainly comes across as an arms race in which the paying customer is becoming collateral damage.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Just wanted to say thanks for that link. Very interesting look on it. As for this whole DRM thing with Ubisoft. Personally I think they are going the wrong way. No one here is really condoning piracy. More or less, people that buy the game through legal means, don't want to be punished. Like so many people have pointed out already. You aren't hurting the pirates, you are hurting the customers that pay for the game. No one is suggesting that you should stop trying to combat piracy, just be careful about the means you choose to use in that effort. You can only slap an ally so many times before that ally becomes an enemy. Or rather in this case someone that just won't buy your games. Because right now I know I won't be buying Assassins Creed 2 because of this.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
lucky for me i don't like ubisoft, so i wouldn't buy there games anyways. =D
idk though, it does seem to be getting out of control. i don't pirate and never will, but i've met a lot of people that do pirate. it is kind of unfair that these people get there games free, while the rest of us pay for them. but i'm really not up on the whole pirating thing, so this is just my 2 cents.
Just wanted to say thanks for that link. Very interesting look on it.
No problem --I thought it was a good read too. For those who didn't read it, basically Valve experimented by cutting costs on a game and capturing the sales results. In the end, a 75% discount to the price resulted in a 1470% increase in sales revenue, which in turn still resulted in a 15% increase to net income over sales at the original price. A neat way to lure in those opting to go the illegal download path...
For kicks, here is how the numbers work out:
That is kinda lame, but dosent really affect me as i never play single player games, thats fucking boring. i only play online.
Currently Playing Path of Exile
So now you will be able to play single player games online
They made you a favor 
http://www.teraonline.info.pl Polski Poradnik Gry Tera Online
I never understand why companies do this because it does not hurt the pirates...
I myself download Pirated stuff, like others I use it as a demo. I downloaded Spore and liked it so I bought it, but I still only run the Pirated version so I do not have to worry about the stupid DRM on it. I also did the same for Crysis, well pretty much all of the legit games I own started out as pirated copies that I went out and bought.
don't these companies understand that the games are generally cracked the first 24 hours after release. why put so much effort into a system that does not work, the crackers will always be better than the DRM...
Using the excuse that pirating is another form of demoing is ridiculous though. Regardless if you like a game or not, people doing this are getting value (being entertained) from a game experience that a company invested resources in to create, without paying for it. Say you play Spore for 15 hours and decide you don't want to buy it after all. That's still 15 hours of entertainment you got, regardless if you didn't feel it was good enough at the end, at the expense of the developer whose work was not compensated for.
It's basically a false sense of entitlement that anything you don't like isn't worth paying for, regardless if you use it.
See the problem is that I rarely will go out and buy a single player game anymore. All of the ones I do buy are ones I have downloaded and liked. So for me in this instance, right or wrong, I would not buy any games other than MMORPG's if it were not for pirating.
Most games if I do not like them rarely see more than 30 minutes of play. I have bout games, installed them, then quickly uninstalled them and tossed the game because it sucked IMHO.
I do not feel like there is any sort of entitlement , and we can probably go back and for with reasons on both sides for a very long time. its just the fact that this sort of DRM hurts the people that do not Pirate and does not hurt the Pirates themselves.
That illustrates my point though -- what about single-players games people such as yourself download but don't like? You're trying to make it sound like you're being a good consumer going out of your way to buy this game after trying your pirate-demo but glossing over the fact that you're not buying games you did play too (but just didn't happen to like).
That illustrates my point though -- what about single-players games people such as yourself download but don't like? You're trying to make it sound like you're being a good consumer going out of your way to buy this game after trying your pirate-demo but glossing over the fact that you're not buying games you did play too (but just didn't happen to like).
I am not trying to make myself look like a good consumer, I am just tired of forking out $50 for a crappy game. I am not some huge game down loader, so why you pick me to go at with is beyond me, the last game I downloaded was spore... I spend almost all of my time playing MMO's I rarely play single player games any more.
You make it sound like I go get every game that is released to "demo" it, but I could careless about 90% of the garbage that they release and dare to put the title of "Game" on it. like Crysis, what 3 hours of play time for $50 just for pretty graphics....
That illustrates my point though -- what about single-players games people such as yourself download but don't like? You're trying to make it sound like you're being a good consumer going out of your way to buy this game after trying your pirate-demo but glossing over the fact that you're not buying games you did play too (but just didn't happen to like).
Well the perfect customer is the one who buys everything regardless of quality or if he likes it.
But wants to be this customer?
Pi*1337/100 = 42