I think we all agree that the main console MMO problem is the controller. I personally have a total of 70 key assignments on my hot bar for Darkfall not to mention other functionality such as map, waypoints etc etc. Now, with that one might say 'we can just add a keyboard to the console". True you could do that. But the question becomes at what point does the console community just admit that a console is bascially a computer without a keyboard? Why not just use a computer to begin with? If you take a console and add a keyboard and a mouse you basically have an un-upgradable PC without a functional OS the end user can use.
1. A console MMO done right wouldn't involve 70 hotkeys.
2. Honestly, any MMO done right wouldn't involve 70 hotkeys. I'd love to see companies create more dynamic abilities.
Entire mods have existed based on FPS Rocket Launchers, because there was so much dynamic skill involved in using it. That's one weapon. One ability. So increasing ability dynamicism would be a huge step in the right direction for MMOs anyway, even if we're not talking consoles.
My saying this is basically a continuation of the Depth Without Complication kick I've been on recently. Games don't need a million hotkeys to be deep. You can play Chess with a Dpad and one button, but that doesn't make Chess a shallow game.
3. Saying consoles are unupgradeable PCs is drastically oversimplifying the situation. While I'm still predominantly a PC guy, it's worth noting that only now (4 years later) can you really find a PC that's the same price as the XBox 360 which has the same power. But that doesn't even hit the other issues, like compatibility, bugs, and (perhaps most importantly) game selection (historically your genre preference(s) have mattered more than anything else regarding which platform you play games on.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Consoles are the future of mmos and it is already starting to take shape. Dust514, Undead Labs zombie mmo, DCUO,Turbine unannounced mmo, FFXIV FFXIV not releasing for x-box because it's too dumbed down. , Blade and Soul and The Agency. MMOs on a console is really an untapped market for the genre. So far we only had FFXI and Phantasy Star Online and I have to say overall they been pretty successful despite "the keyboard" issues to communicate with. That is a big issue, also, there is the little chat box you have to be 15 in. from. Over 12 million on the Xbox 360 and over 10 million on a Playstation 3. Do you realize how much money a company can make from a console mmo ? There will always be mmos on the pc but the better platform is clearly the console. 1. Consoles are more stable to play on. Sure a pc is more powerful and has better graphics but it is so much harder to design a mmo on a pc. PCs are designed to do multiple things while the console is a dedicated piece of hardware for gaming. I'm not so sure about Them being more stable. More power and better graphics is a part of stability. If you have to dumb down the graphics to make the console version, it's not stable in my opinion. 2. The console controller isn't as difficult to use as some make it out to be. I own both a pc and a console and when I got used to playing on a console the controller was a none issue for me. Are you playing MMOs on the console? it's the cycling through all those spells. Think about WoW, I have almost every shortcut used up. Inventory, all those menus you have to press pause for. I think I use just about every key in many MMO games. No quite, but everything on the left side. and a 5-6 button mouse. 3. Consoles are more comfortable to play on. I kick my feet up, relax on the couch or my nice comfy recliner and enjoy a game while on the pc we can be stuck in that pc chair for hours. Again, can you read those tinnnny chat boxes from your recliner? Mmos are made to be played 15 in from the screen. I don't think devs are going to change that too much.
"FFXIV not releasing for x-box because it's too dumbed down."
Come on, everyone who frequents theese forms knows this is not true. MS and SE are at a dissagreement. It is not being realeased for the xbox360 atm because SE wants all xbox360 to be able to play, and MS wants only gold subbed members to be able to.
I'm not defending the 360 i would rather play an mmo on my PC.
They already exist.... on the PC... Yeah, EQOA and FFXI are traditional MMOs that have been on consoles and failed. Phantasy Star Online and Phantasy Star Universe were multiplayer action RPGs that were sold as MMOs on the Dreamcast, Gamecube, PS2, Xbox and Xbox 360. But if you want to know what a console MMO is all about, you have to play games like Dungeon fighter,Dragonica Online or Mini Fighter Online. Oh, and you also need to play them with a gamepad. You see, the only real difference between the PC and consoles is the controller. PC games use the keyboard and the mouse while consoles use a gamepad. Normally, when developers want to make a console or arcade style game for the PC, they ignore the mouse as much as possible and just have keyboard controls. If a gamepad isn't supported in the game itself, then gamers use apps like Xpadder,Joy2Key or Pinnacle. Every time the topic of MMOs on consoles comes up, we hear the same boring arguments: 1) Consoles aren't powerful enough. This one is funny considering that MMOs have been around since 1997 and I'm pretty sure that even the Wii has better specs than the minimum system requirements for Everquest or DAoC. 2) A gamepad isn't sophisticated enough to handle all of the functions needed in an MMORPG. This is also laughable since gamepads worked just great for both the Xbox version of Morrowind and the 360 version of Oblivion. Niether of those games are "dumbed down" by the standards of RPGs. But many of us are correct that an MMO would have to made differently in order to work on a console. And as you can now see, console style designs have been tried, but console MMOs are all on the PC right now. SIDE NOTE: Two single player examples of how an MMO might work on consoles. The .Hack series and.... Ragnarok Battle offline.
Please refrain from spreading false informations. There are some, but lets start with FFXI.
FFXI didn't fail, it had enough players at the begining to be called a successful MMORPG of its time and held steady with 500k+ players for many years and still running now. It surely have dwindled over the years especially with the upcoming FFXIV, but no where close to considered a failure.
FFXI is also across 3 plateforms of PS3, PC, and XBOX360. (Don't ask me why XBOX360 had it, I find it strange myself.)
FFXI had one of the best gaming community build on teamwork and social connections because it is a game that require a player to team up in order to progress (don't mistake this as just join a group). Of course FFXI is not without faults either which I will list the 3 major ones below.
1. FFXI's progression was considered slow by MMORPG standard, but it is not grinding, it is because the game simply had too much contents than a player can actively participate on average gaming schedule.
2. The combat was slower but more strategic, which the slower part really didn't seem to sit right with some players. Of course they never made it to the point where they can be haste oriented and attack at a much faster speed. Which inspired some TP burn strategy against some bosses and made it easier.
3. The learning curve was longer and the scale between player and monster strength was rather steep which harmed its popularity with new players.
On the controller issue, well more like an non-issue really since consoles do have the ability to use some USB keyboard and mouse as long it is supported. Actually some players told me gamepad really does not impede their gameplay even though I do prefer a keyboard and mouse myself.
On the capability issue, yes comparing to a gaming PC a console does have its limitations. However usually MMORPG that is released on console can handle it, that is why they put it on the console. Game devs are not nearly as stupid as we might imagine.
Small note about Phantasy Star Universe, yes it wasn't a MMORPG even though it was sort of advertised as one for god knows why. The game does have its good points about combat, crafting, personal shops. However, those simply was not enough in the end, thankfully it had a single player mode which was actually a decent RPG at least. Also, I remember I played PSU the PC version which you didn't mention.
I think that about covers it. i don't think I have particularly good knowledge about the other games you mentioned since I didn't play them so I cannot comment on those.
Comments
1. A console MMO done right wouldn't involve 70 hotkeys.
2. Honestly, any MMO done right wouldn't involve 70 hotkeys. I'd love to see companies create more dynamic abilities.
Entire mods have existed based on FPS Rocket Launchers, because there was so much dynamic skill involved in using it. That's one weapon. One ability. So increasing ability dynamicism would be a huge step in the right direction for MMOs anyway, even if we're not talking consoles.
My saying this is basically a continuation of the Depth Without Complication kick I've been on recently. Games don't need a million hotkeys to be deep. You can play Chess with a Dpad and one button, but that doesn't make Chess a shallow game.
3. Saying consoles are unupgradeable PCs is drastically oversimplifying the situation. While I'm still predominantly a PC guy, it's worth noting that only now (4 years later) can you really find a PC that's the same price as the XBox 360 which has the same power. But that doesn't even hit the other issues, like compatibility, bugs, and (perhaps most importantly) game selection (historically your genre preference(s) have mattered more than anything else regarding which platform you play games on.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
"FFXIV not releasing for x-box because it's too dumbed down."
Come on, everyone who frequents theese forms knows this is not true. MS and SE are at a dissagreement. It is not being realeased for the xbox360 atm because SE wants all xbox360 to be able to play, and MS wants only gold subbed members to be able to.
I'm not defending the 360 i would rather play an mmo on my PC.
Please refrain from spreading false informations. There are some, but lets start with FFXI.
FFXI didn't fail, it had enough players at the begining to be called a successful MMORPG of its time and held steady with 500k+ players for many years and still running now. It surely have dwindled over the years especially with the upcoming FFXIV, but no where close to considered a failure.
FFXI is also across 3 plateforms of PS3, PC, and XBOX360. (Don't ask me why XBOX360 had it, I find it strange myself.)
FFXI had one of the best gaming community build on teamwork and social connections because it is a game that require a player to team up in order to progress (don't mistake this as just join a group). Of course FFXI is not without faults either which I will list the 3 major ones below.
1. FFXI's progression was considered slow by MMORPG standard, but it is not grinding, it is because the game simply had too much contents than a player can actively participate on average gaming schedule.
2. The combat was slower but more strategic, which the slower part really didn't seem to sit right with some players. Of course they never made it to the point where they can be haste oriented and attack at a much faster speed. Which inspired some TP burn strategy against some bosses and made it easier.
3. The learning curve was longer and the scale between player and monster strength was rather steep which harmed its popularity with new players.
On the controller issue, well more like an non-issue really since consoles do have the ability to use some USB keyboard and mouse as long it is supported. Actually some players told me gamepad really does not impede their gameplay even though I do prefer a keyboard and mouse myself.
On the capability issue, yes comparing to a gaming PC a console does have its limitations. However usually MMORPG that is released on console can handle it, that is why they put it on the console. Game devs are not nearly as stupid as we might imagine.
Small note about Phantasy Star Universe, yes it wasn't a MMORPG even though it was sort of advertised as one for god knows why. The game does have its good points about combat, crafting, personal shops. However, those simply was not enough in the end, thankfully it had a single player mode which was actually a decent RPG at least. Also, I remember I played PSU the PC version which you didn't mention.
I think that about covers it. i don't think I have particularly good knowledge about the other games you mentioned since I didn't play them so I cannot comment on those.