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Why we "Gank".
Miles-Prower
Member Posts: 1,106
I read an interesting article on Explicitgamer.com that discussed why people in PvP based games gank. It's an interesting read.
Having just played the Darkfall trial, I found this to be enlightening to say the least.
Your thoughts?
EDIT: Let me summarize the good parts for you people:
- Some gank because they think that that is what you are supposed to do when you are playing on a PvP realm.
- Some gank because they enjoy causing grief and take pleasure in trying to ruin the game experience for others.
- Some gank when they see red text above a target and don’t really look at the level of the target.
- Some gank as an act of revenge.
- Some gank for the sport
- Some gank to provoke a response from the opposite faction in order to start some World PvP
- Some gank for no particular reason or because they are bored.
- Some gank for the pure fact that the other player gives some sort of honor (pvp ranking stat). Even if it is only a point or two.
My opinion? I have to agree here. I think people gank mostly because they feel that's what they're supposed to do. In the many PvP games I have played there is actually little "ganking" unless one of the above issues are met. My most fondest memory of being ganked was on a PvP server in World of Warcraft.
I played an Alliance priest on a server that favored the Horde. I wanted a challenge and a priest was what I considered the most difficult class to level since you have very few attacks and defenses to protect yourself (Fear being the only one, and it's almost always negated by Will of the Forsaken).
Now understand all this I've said is opinion, but I digress. At any rate I was killing demons outside Astranaar when a Horde blood Elf came up and started killing them with me. At first we were getting along. I helped him and he helped me. Just after I helped him survive being ambushed, he turned around and killed me when I had my back turned. Needless to say, I simply shrugged it off and when I returned to my body he was long gone.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Comments
ganking to me is and always will be psycopathic behaviour. people can spin and rationalize it in any way they please, but thats what it is.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
Well, thanks for the sumamry of the article. I am going to go through and read it and see if I can get anything else out of it. But you were pretty concise in the explanation and covered the main idea. Thanks for sharing!
www.ryzom.com
Most gank cause they got their ass kicked in school.
My only comment is that the guy who wanted to share this has "sexual predator" in his avatar, probably because he thinks it funny or cute... I wonder why he ganks =P
I'm an innocent little fox. *cute eyes* don't hate me!
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
Is it possible that there may be a case or two where people 'gank' because that is the inherent nature of any kind of strategic combat or conquest based game? I'm just thinking that there are certain games where the use of the term 'gank' simply indicates a lack of understanding of the difference between a sport PVP event (arena, battlegrounds and most other instanced combat) and conquest/strategy-based combat (territory control, keep/marker capture or city construction/defense games as some examples).
It's easy to write it off as 'psychopathic behavior' and create some persona of an evil kid that hurt small animals and was picked on in school, but it's entirely possible that in some situations or even in some common areas of gameplay, the 'ganked' person was someone that basically didn't understand the mechanics or design of the game.
I'm not saying that's all game sor all cases, and I know I will get flamed for even suggesting it, but I still wanted to put that possibility out there.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Absolutely. I understand perfectly well that if I step into 0.0 in EVE and I get killed I m not really being ganked. That space probably belongs to someone, and what happens is akin to me breaking into someone's house and getting shot by the owner. That is PvP I can understand and live with, and doesnt fall into my definition of ganking.
But when people kill others just to ruin their day, with nothing to gain themselves, and nothint to protect, Im not sorry to say it, its psycopathic behaviour.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I didn't read the article, I only read the summary posted here. It seems to me that one thing that is missing is some kind of roleplaying aspect. When I played SWG I played as an Imperial. If I saw an overt rebel I would try to kill them. Why? Because they are a rebel. mmoRPG...imo
Absolutely. I understand perfectly well that if I step into 0.0 in EVE and I get killed I m not really being ganked. That space probably belongs to someone, and what happens is akin to me breaking into someone's house and getting shot by the owner. That is PvP I can understand and live with, and doesnt fall into my definition of ganking.
But when people kill others just to ruin their day, with nothing to gain themselves, and nothint to protect, Im not sorry to say it, its psycopathic behaviour.
Which brings us back to why 'gank' is about the most useless word to ever use when trying to have a discussion on PvP.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Wild Bill was ganked.
So was Jesse James.
Pat Garret the guy who ganked Billy the Kid was ganked as he was relieving himself at the side of the road.
A modern day drive by is essentially a gank.
Attacking from a superior position appears to be part of human nature.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Have to clear up that Ganking is not Griefing.
Ganking just means to fight with more numbers than the opponent, regardless of level, 5v1 is Ganking.
Griefing is to just make other player's life in game miserable, 9.5/10 times is always a much higher level against a lower one (which is what we all hate).
That article is mixing both things.
Ganking I have no problem with. If you're in open pvp area, its the whole point. Griefing is a whole nother thing. People really need to separate ganking and griefing.
Still one of the things not listed in the OP's list which certainly applies to a certain % of gangkers, and a LARGE % of greifers is the bully aspect. Beating up on someone who can't effectively fight back cause it makes you feel big about yourself.
And while the bully aspect is the only reason people gank, its certainly the reason that gives all pvp'ers a bad name.
Yup, you're a fool.
There is no strategy in a gank.
It takes no skill or plan for a character many levels higher then another to be victorious in a sneak attack pvp situation which is what a gank is.
I agree with Toquio3 and perponderance.
More accurately, it's part of any sensible plan for any engagement or competition that has ever occurred anywhere... period.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I'll gank you in real life...
Well the strategic and tactical players aren't playing games with ganking/open PVP for the most part. The ones who want competitive PVP play GW, WOW, or (more likely) an entirely different genre where non-skill factors are minimized and truly competitive play emerges.
A player interested in strategy and tactics wouldn't be all that interested in a game where the vastly majority of conflict is one-sided.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
I "gank" because it gives me a sense of power. I like badasses. I Iike Darth Vader because he is a badass. I like Bruce Lee because he was a badass. I like Drizzt because he is a badass. I like the Predator in the first Predator movie because he is badass. When I'm walking through a forest in my MMORPG of choice and I spot a few people that I consider "enemies" off in the distance and go kick their ass - I feel like a badass.
Serious death penalties makes every close call an adrenaline rush, and every minor achievement a major victory. This alternative rule-set should be in all MMORPGs.
I think this may very well be the REAL reason, right here ^^
~~ postlarval ~~
I gank cause I can. Really, what more reason do people need?
I pity you for several reasons, most of all for so pathetically misunderstanding Bruce Lee.
Well the strategic and tactical players aren't playing games with ganking/open PVP for the most part. The ones who want competitive PVP play GW, WOW, or (more likely) an entirely different genre where non-skill factors are minimized and truly competitive play emerges.
A player interested in strategy and tactics wouldn't be all that interested in a game where the vastly majority of conflict is one-sided.
We who play EVE would disagree with you. If you find yourself in a fair fight, either you or your opponent is doing something wrong.
When all the marbles are on the table, there can be only one reasonable outcome, winning overwhelmingly. When there's nothing at stake as in the games you referred to then "fair" combat can be considered reasonable.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I would disagree with ganking being psychopathic . It's a rpg after all, and if your playing a faction vs faction type game, and you see a member of the opposite faction who your suppose to be at war with, would you just continue killing side by side?Im not saying you should just go around killing everyone in pvp worlds, but if every member of the opposite faction went around being nice, it wouldn't be much of a pvp server.
Being ganked is never fun, but where would the immersion be if it never happened.
That being said, griefing is a different monster completely, and is uncalled for. This is what i would say falls under the category of kids who want to feel bigger about themselves/bully.
Ganking to me = hey, there is someone who is not aligned with me, lets kill him so he goes away. Ganking usually always has a reason; be it because your at war with that faction, they're usin your resources, they are not in a guild that your guild is aligned with, hence you are competing with them in some manor.
griefing= I'm a high lvl and i see that nooby over there, let me kill him and camp his body so he can't have any fun.
However, killing very low levels who just started 5 minutes ago easily falls under the griefing section.
I used to gank in diablo 2 hardcore server. Now that was fun. I remember i killed a lvl 9 with a lvl 60+ on hc server and i did it because I could. I also wanted to be a douchebag too.
When I was a hunter in WoW i used to hunt the alliance and i did gank them and that was fun. That was my role, i was a hunter character and i was also a hunter for real. I did it because it was fun and it was part of the game.
When I played RoM i'd gank anyone who was red because i could potentially get an item from them. What i do not like is when people gank lower levels incessantly just to ruin their time.
When high levels kill low levels like that. Albeit, i did do it in D2 but that was 10 years ago and i wouldn't do that again. I would kill players in RoM that were low level if they were red but they were just asking for it.
In general, we gank because we can and it is part of the game and you can potentially get things out of it. It's not really about power, it's just fun as long as it is within the parameters of the game.
To summarize, there were a few times i griefed as opposed to gank and that was in diablo 2, but now if i gank i do it because it is part of the games i play, i do it in a way that is RPG-style in that I hunt, i refuse to kill people in town unless they are already flagged for pvp or have already pked people. Other than that, i'll go out and hunt people. Essentially, i'll gank you if i can with my own "moral code" i won't grief people as that is retarded unless they are asshats and they deserve it. If i could figure out how to PK in SWG i may actually do it more, considering i'm a trader though, it's not a smart idea.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Well truthfully trying to analyze ganking is probably a fruitless effort since there can be any number of reasons or even no reason at all. On the other hand, rationalize ganking is also invalid since it is the same as trying tojustify the act of ganking.
Supposedly allowing FFA PvP was meant to give more freedom of expression to the players, but as usual this turn into "shoot first, ask questions later" Except after players finish the shooting, the questions are completely forgotten, thus we end up with just mindless attacking that are sometimes fun but sometimes not. Unlike in real life the consequences for it is miniscule, so there are also no obvious stop signs especially for those with less self control in moderation.
Lets just say that in order to apply FFA PvP it actually needs more consideration in how it is applied. Developers came up with RvR types of setting which works to a degree in preventing ganking to get out of hand by giving players clear enemy and allies, but it still have its own shortcomings as an individual usually pick their allies and enemies based on their gaming experience.
What developer still tend to fail to realize is that unlike real life, MMO gaming is totally based on irresponsibility. So whenever you give someone freedom, you need to give them equal amount of consequences to prevent things from getting out of hand.
Some people argue that PvP is all that matters and is what makes MMO fun. Of course that is true for some, but if FFA PvP alone makes a game fun, how does one explain all the PvP focused MMO failed to reach the popularity status of games with rich PvE content?
In the end a MMO game is better off created as a world first instead of created around the content whether it be PvP or PvE or both.
(No I don't mean sandbox, that is another misconception all together)
Well the strategic and tactical players aren't playing games with ganking/open PVP for the most part. The ones who want competitive PVP play GW, WOW, or (more likely) an entirely different genre where non-skill factors are minimized and truly competitive play emerges.
A player interested in strategy and tactics wouldn't be all that interested in a game where the vastly majority of conflict is one-sided.
We who play EVE would disagree with you. If you find yourself in a fair fight, either you or your opponent is doing something wrong.
When all the marbles are on the table, there can be only one reasonable outcome, winning overwhelmingly. When there's nothing at stake as in the games you referred to then "fair" combat can be considered reasonable.
Well I've covered in other threads the reasons why balanced games are the ones where decisionmaking comes to the forefront of gameplay. The extent to which power can accumulate in EVE causes a huge reduction in the true importance of strategic decisionmaking -- even if it might feel like it was important to make that extra fleet manuever when you're in the heat of the moment.
The players who play EVE are in it for the other aspects of EVE, as you mention. They care about persistence and power accumulation, even though these things directly reduce the importance of decisionmaking. The logistics and strategy of large troop movement is also important, and even requires a good chunk of managerial skill, but when it comes to pure strategic and tactical decisionmaking there are far superior games for it.
At the very least Planetside has all the large-scale, multi-layered tactics/strategy of EVE in a balanced-population setting, which causes strategy and tactics to matter on a consistent basis. There's no power accumulation as a trump card to diminish the importance of good strategy/tactics.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver