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What the.. Nooo!
Albytaps
Member Posts: 208
Linked by another member (Toddze?) recently, not sure how old it is:
PlayStation Blog: You mentioned that the combat system will have less of a team play aspect. I know it's been a few months since the game was announced - can you elaborate on that, and how it's different, and how much progress you've made in the past few months since it was announced?
Tanaka: For FFXI, the system was job based, so that's why they had a party to make the most out of each job. This time it's not going to be a job based system, it's going to be an Armoury system, so it depends on which weapon you use and you can switch your class. That allows the player to use a different ability or skills. You can also join a party, that doesn't mean you have to play solo, but it will allow you to play solo as well, because you can fight against monsters and you can change to a healer to heal yourself. So there will be more variety and it depends on what you plan on doing for that day.
How can they do this? This is exactly what I couldn't believe would happen. Does this mean you can change weapons thus change jobs during a fight? I don't like it!
Comments
I read that you cant change jobs-weapons mid fight, but you can change after the fight is over~
This has been the design idea for quite a long time. Basically the class will be in the weapon itself, changing weapons changes your class at will. However these classes all start at level 1 and will need to be leveled individually, so it basically will be like having alts within yourself, not just you are a level 10 warrior and therefore are also a level 10 healer.
My Guild Wars 2 Vids
While I am inclined to say "wait it out and see how it works", from that alone, the ground seems treacherous... before anyone comes in saying "yay, no forced grouping", I am going to ask them what game they are going to be playing after they steamroll through FFIV solo and get bored with it.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I'm not liking the word solo in FFXIV here. It seems they will join the rest of the mmo genre with dumbing down the content so everyone and their sister can play. FFXI was great because it wasn't like the other mmos.
I loved the group aspect of XI, it really brought the community together. I so far hate the idea of this system, I think it sounds terrible. But I'm keeping a open mind and no one will really know how it is until we try it out. Se has been working on this MMO for years, I don't think they would spend that much time on a bad system.
They are doing something similar with the FF13 console game (not the mmo), any character can switch between any class at any time, given a certain gauge is full during combat.
(http://g4tv.com/videos/44475/Final-Fantasy-XIII-Battle-System-Preview/?quality=hd) This alone made all my anticipation disappear, and I will no longer be getting this game at all.
Since they are doing the same with the mmo, I can see alot of other FF fans feeling the same as I do about the console game.. pure and utter disapointment
Grouping was great in FFXI til after a couple years, then it became harder and harder to find a group. Granted, I personally miss the group aspect of games, and whether people are for or against forced grouping, I think squaresoft has probably listened to some of their players about how you were completely unable to do it in FFXI and want to gain a bigger crowd. The new system does seem interesting, and I personally look forward to trying it. I just hope that it doesn't become like games that for the most part there is no need to group. Socialization and playing with others is what makes a MMO a MMO, and I for one hope it remains.
God I hope that's not the case, because FFXI became what you call "topheavy" and the majority of active players were in high level zones. The dunes, Qufim, all the good early spots dried up and relied on all newcomers to basically help themselves. You also needed a vet to get you a magicked skull too, but that's another story.
The game's base design of funneling people to the end is what shot itself in the foot, years down the line that is. As it is with any game that does the same thing. Perhaps with this armory system there is a more horizontal progression that still favors encroaching on difficult mobs, but then I would hope they take advantage of every possible zone to have this range of content. I just highly doubt people are going to bother grouping if they don't have to, and after a while everyone who didn't bunker down with a good LS is going to walk, just like every other game before this one.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
kind of seems like more and more games are pulling away from the whole aspect of grouping to level. back in old school EQ you HAD to group to level, as in most other games. it brought a little more depth to games and had a closer knit community because you were forced to group with said people a decent amount of time.
WoW kind of led the way with the whole killing off of party play to level. they dumbed down the game so it was simple to level and didnt require looking for a group. still need it to get good equip, but the entire game is soloable from 1-whatever the cap is now.
people want instant gratification now adays though, so, this is what you get in MMO's because of it.
They probably mean once the battle is over you can change to a healer to recover your injury and not mid-combat.
No sane developer is going to allow class change in mid combat since it would be asking for abuse by players.
Edit:
Was that translated from Japanese by the way? Lets just say most translations made by gaming conferences are not that great sometimes just because of the language barrier.
However, in FFXI one can play solo as well really. Just no where as efficient except for a certain jobs in certain level range and in very specific areas. Lets not forget the imp soloing for merit on a BLU as well. Basically, there are too many ways to interpret what Tanaka said to make a proper judgement. In the end we probably have to wait till a playable version is released to see.
I loved that in FFXI you had to work your ass off to level, let alone achieve anything else. Sure it was tedious and sometimes boring, but at least you could set yourself apart from others and meet some pretty cool people along the way.
People complain when every MMORPG is too much like all the others, but when someone tries to do something different, people start complaining! Unfortunately, many games have been effected negatively due to such fan base pressures.
It's sad how many people want a game to play their way, but no one else's way. Want to group? Group. Want to focus on one career and never swap? Do so.
I think developers might do best to just not listen to fans at all during development. Make sure you do monitored play testing to fine tune, but don't fall victim to the vocal masses who, for the most part, are afraid of change, even as they blast the lack of innovation!
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I agree with what your saying, it's definitely true and not everyone will be pleased no matter what. I think the fear here is that with a system like this, it will kill grouping for those who wish to do so.
Well if Guildleves actually convince people to group for junk, then problem solved in that aspect. There is still the tons of players who will never join a guild.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
I think you are dead wrong about this. Basically what is happening is this: Final Fantasy XI was group intensive and Final fantasy XIV will be group intensive and soloable, whichever you please. There is no way SE is going to not have a lot of group content and settings that is one thing that made FFXI so great. So tell me why the players would be unhappy about being able to solo and group?
That's not what I'm saying, a system with both soloing and grouping is a perfect system in my book, there's days I don't want to deal with people and days I do. My worry is that groups will only be needed to kill things such as HNM's or do some epic quests, not player development.
I think you are dead wrong about this. Basically what is happening is this: Final Fantasy XI was group intensive and Final fantasy XIV will be group intensive and soloable, whichever you please. There is no way SE is going to not have a lot of group content and settings that is one thing that made FFXI so great. So tell me why the players would be unhappy about being able to solo and group?
Because every game that has done anything along these lines to cater to solo players ends up watering down group content untill it becomes meaningless. Too many solo players expect to get access to everything a group player has access to and in the end that becomes the path of least resistance. If something is easy then people do it. As a result group action dies or becomes irritating 5 or 10 minute bites at content. It is simply not possible with todays developers to have good group content and good solo content in a single game. The developers will always end up favoring one over the other.
Also due to the fact that I do not know of a single game that has been designed in the last few years that has been designed around group content as its core( at least nothing heavily instanced such that the MM is taken out of the MMO) that those who wish to play that style of game keep lamenting the fact that every new game the comes out keeps going down the same old boring road.
I've played a few rpgs that had characters that changed classes with their gear, and it was not one of my favorite aspects. I'll most like play ffxiv at some point, but I doubt I'll run out and buy it right away when it does come out.
I think what people fail to realize is that just because you can change your class does not mean the majority of content will be soloable, just that you can solo certain content. If anything this has the potential to make grouping even better because if a person had leveled a healer all the way up, then switched to dps and levelled that up, just by switching weapons he can fill 2 different holes in the group, making finding a group a lot easier.
I think you are dead wrong about this. Basically what is happening is this: Final Fantasy XI was group intensive and Final fantasy XIV will be group intensive and soloable, whichever you please. There is no way SE is going to not have a lot of group content and settings that is one thing that made FFXI so great. So tell me why the players would be unhappy about being able to solo and group?
Because every game that has done anything along these lines to cater to solo players ends up watering down group content untill it becomes meaningless. Too many solo players expect to get access to everything a group player has access to and in the end that becomes the path of least resistance. If something is easy then people do it. As a result group action dies or becomes irritating 5 or 10 minute bites at content. It is simply not possible with todays developers to have good group content and good solo content in a single game. The developers will always end up favoring one over the other.
Also due to the fact that I do not know of a single game that has been designed in the last few years that has been designed around group content as its core( at least nothing heavily instanced such that the MM is taken out of the MMO) that those who wish to play that style of game keep lamenting the fact that every new game the comes out keeps going down the same old boring road.
Exactly, if its easy people do it. Such as getting a balanced group together by merely switching weapons and not having to search for a tank or healer. People will WANT to group because its so easy to do so.
Yay, no forced grouping!
Edit: Seriously though, is this anything that a dancer sub doesn't give you now anyway in FFXI?
My 2 copper:
As long as they make you level up each job/class individually and you can only switch out of combat then it's no different than having alts.
Like actual healing potency, reverse flourish to build fast TP, and stutter steps to reduce mob magic resistence.
Of course, there are also the merits.
As tactical as FFXI goes, most of the players still ignore just how useful Stutter Step is when using it against powerful NM. Those few LS that use Dancer properly actually are able to defeat an other wise difficult mobs with quite a bit less effort.
Well come on let's be serious here. It was not and is not fun standing around LFG for 2 hours and failing and ending up logging because nothing is solo friendly. This is a highly innovative system that allows content to be crafted in tiers of difficulty that gives the solo player access to larger pools of content. You still have to solo kill a mob with your combat "class/weapon" before you can switch to heal, so you will still have to be capable of that solo. The fact that the system may remove tons of down-time and forced grouping makes it innovative, and shows me they are listening to their audience and the genre and seeing this as a good solution, which it is.
Personally for me, I love it, I am super excited to play and can't wait to get at it. This will give me a game to play alone and with friends or people I meet in game. It is that flexibility which will give it mass appeal. Bring it on, can't wait.
Maybe they will do something like a EXP chain in FFXI, but if you switch your class you lose your chain. Sort of to discourage sporadic class switching but still giving you that option.